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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Whitewashing History; Trump Says "In The Process" Of Setting Up Putin-Zelenskyy Meeting; House Panel To Make Some Epstein Files Public After Redactions To Protect Victims' Identities; Waiting For Israel To Respond To Ceasefire Proposal Put Forward By Qatar And Egypt; Hamas Says It Accepts The Deal; Freed Israeli Hostage Relives Horror Of Captivity By Hamas; Tropical Storm Watch For Parts Of VA As Hurricane Erin Threatens Dangerous Surf For Much Of The East Coast. Aired: 8-9p ET

Aired August 19, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Trump's warm approach to Putin could weaken unity, some fear between the U.S. and Europe, Erin, and that is something that China would certainly welcome. It could give Xi Jinping more room to maneuver here in Taiwan. As you know, Beijing has vowed to take this island by force if necessary.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes, all right, Will Ripley, thank you so much, in Taipei in Taiwan tonight, thank you. And thanks so much to all of you, as always, for being with us. AC360 begins now.

[20:00:28]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the President calls the Smithsonian Museum out-of-control in part he says because of its focus on how bad slavery was.

Also tonight, will they or won't they? The White House says Russia has agreed to a Putin-Zelenskyy meeting, the Russians thought have yet to say.

And later, House Republicans set to make some Epstein files public, the question is which ones and what's being left out.

Good evening, thanks for joining us.

We begin tonight keeping them honest, with the President's latest attack on the Smithsonian. Just a week ago today, he unveiled plans to review and oversee what museums there exhibit or plan to exhibit. Although the White House letter to the Smithsonian's top executive at the time said the goal was, "not to interfere with the day-to-day operations of curators or staffers." It seems the President already has some ideas of his own.

He laid them out today in a social media post. In it, he writes: The Smithsonian is out of control, where everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was, and how unaccomplished the downtrodden have been -- nothing about success, nothing about brightness, nothing about the future. He goes on to say, this country cannot be woke because woke is broke. We have the hottest country in the world, and we want people to talk about it, including in our museums.

Now it was, of course, the slavery part that first stood out in that even the best possible interpretation of what the President said is that, by his way of thinking, the Smithsonian is focusing too much on bad things, including slavery.

There's, of course, a less charitable reading that he could be implying slavery maybe wasn't so bad, but even presuming the best, the complaint doesn't hold water factually.

Of the 40 exhibitions now running at the National Museum of American History, for example, only four even deal with discrimination of any form against anyone. None is on slavery. As for negativity, there's an exhibit on women's achievers in business. The stories of eight strong women who made it to the top. That's how they describe it. There's one titled "American Democracy: A Great Leap of Faith."

You can also find exhibits on the History of Computing Business, "The Genius of Ben Franklin", Dorothy's ruby slippers from "The Wizard of Oz" as well. And yes, there's also one of the Greensboro lunch counter sit-in on the key moments in the Civil Rights Movement, which involved four Black college students politely asking for service at a Whites only lunch counter. It was an act of extraordinary courage, and it ultimately was a success and helped lead this country toward that brighter future, the President so cares about. Success and brightness in the future, all the things the President wants in our museums.

Even at the Smithsonian's Museum of African-American History and Culture, which certainly does not gloss over some of the grimmest aspects of the American experience, there's plenty to inspire. The President says they focus on, "How unaccomplished the downtrodden have been."

Well, there's an exhibition titled "Making A Way Out of No Way," which tells stories that quoting from the description reflect the perseverance, resourcefulness and resilience required by African- Americans to survive and thrive in America.

There's an exhibit about Black combat heroes dating back to the revolution. Also, Black artists and entrepreneurs who may have been born into circumstances where they were downtrodden, to use the Presidents words, but they achieved extraordinary accomplishments.

You can see James Brown's cape and jumpsuit; Chuck Berry's iconic red Cadillac, even Muhammad Ali's boxing gloves. They all made a way out of no way.

Now, being honest about our past is a sign of strength. A sign of how far this nation has come. As for casting America in a negative light, let's not forget President Trump seems to have no problem with that, as long as he's the one who's doing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Our country's going to hell.

Our country is going to hell.

Our country's going to hell.

Our country is going to hell.

We're like a garbage can for the world.

But now we are a nation in decline. We are a failing nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: We're now in this from CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who joins me from the White House. What are the White House officials saying about all this tonight?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN, CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, White House officials are saying the President is serious about increasing his scrutiny of the Smithsonian Museums. He sent a letter just yesterday, but again, really amplifying his words tonight in that social media post.

One White House official explaining his objective, quite simply, like this: President Trump will explore all options and avenues to get the woke out of the Smithsonian and hold them accountable.

Beyond that, it is unclear exactly what he's going to be doing except directing his lawyers, as he said, to scrutinize all of the works of the Smithsonian.

Anderson, but I'm thinking back to one month after the President took office the first time, back in 2017, he paid a visit to the museum of African-American History and Culture, which is just a couple blocks from the White House here.

I was thinking back to that day when he was walking through the exhibits, as you can see right there on the screen, and he spoke very glowingly about the resilience that was shown. He spoke very movingly about what the museum said and went back and looked exactly to make sure my memory was correct. And he said this, he praised the museum. He said the museum tells of the greatness of the struggle for freedom that prevailed against the sins of slavery. That was back in 2017.

Many of those slavery exhibits have not changed since then, so it's unclear what the President is exactly stirred up about this and how they became woke. But it's one more example of how he's leveraging the power of his office in ways he did not do in his first term.

[20:05:57]

COOPER: So he liked the museum in 2017 and talked about slavery and saw those exhibits. Is it clear how the administration is going to determine what should or should not be in their estimation, in the Smithsonian Museum?

ZELENY: It's not clear. He said he's going to have his lawyers look at this, both here in Washington and in museums across the country. It's largely an extension of the fight that he's already raging against universities. So, it clearly is something the administration and the President like to discuss. They like to talk about the idea of this so-called wokeness at museums, but its less clear exactly what that means and what museums will be asked potentially to do differently here.

But again, Anderson, so striking from the President's own words. Even after his visit, he dedicated one of his own weekly addresses back when Presidents used to give those weekly radio addresses, he dedicated it specifically to his visit. There it was in Black History Month of 2017. He praised the museum, but now he calls it woke -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, thanks very much.

I'm joined by CNN political commentator Alyssa Farah Griffin, who served as White House communications director during President Trump's first term and Pulitzer prize winning historian, Annette Gordon-Reed of Harvard University.

Professor Gordon-Reed, as we mentioned, the President said in his post that everything discussed is, "how bad slavery was, how unaccomplished the downtrodden have been." I was struck by that line. I'm wondering what your reaction is.

ANNETTE GORDON-REED, PULITZER PRIZE WINNING HISTORIAN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, I've been to the museum, and it's exactly the opposite of that. It's much more like the way he described it in 2017. It is very inspirational. It talks about slavery, but it talks about American progress doing things to make the promise of the Declaration of Independence become real. So, it's not a place that I recognize in the way he describes it in that post.

COOPER: Alyssa, do you -- were you there during the first term when he went?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was glad Jeff Zeleny brought that up because I traveled to the History of African- American History Museum, with Mike Pence at the time. So, shortly after the former -- the current President did, and he had the same takeaway, and I recalled the President having the same takeaway, which it was something he was honored to attend. He thought that it was in many ways, a testament to those overcoming and the terrible circumstances they'd come out of.

I remember sitting with Donald Trump and his first term when he put out a statement about Juneteenth, but then later there's this decision to move away from some of those things. And I think it speaks to the moment we're in the second term. There were some, I'm going to call them normies, people who came from old school government who realized we recognize our history, we acknowledge our past. There's a certain way we speak about those things, because it's for the good of the entire country. They were there in the first term.

In the second term, it's a lot of folks who seem purely driven on ideology, and at times that can lead you down some pretty dangerous places. What you're seeing here with the Smithsonian, I mean, I don't even know what this would look like.

Generally, what's in it is brought together by curators, by scholars, by a board of regents. But we do know that he's already wanted to include removal of his first and second impeachment from the Smithsonian. So you get to a scary place when you've got ideologues kind of changing facts and history.

COOPER: What kind of a -- I mean, it's essentially a whitewashing of history and an elimination of Black History and the history of others as well, in this country. What is the danger of this, as you say, as a historian?

GORDON-REED: Well, the danger is that you get an incomplete picture of what happened in the country. If you can't learn from history, if you don't know what actually happened. So, it's a way of keeping people ignorant of the past. And that's not what -- historians try to do the opposite of that. To bring what we know to the fore and that's what Americans want. These museums are incredibly popular. From every survey, everything that I've seen, people like to go there. They're always full and Americans want to know the unvarnished truth --

COOPER: You wrote a book about Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings which never used to be mentioned long ago, I understand Monticello that, that has that has changed.

GORDON-REED: Yes, it definitely has changed because they realize that Monticello was not just the home of Thomas Jefferson, it was homes of hundreds of other people who lived there, you know, longer continuously than he did because he was away in politics and so forth.

So, now the story is much broader. It's much more expansive, and it's much more realistic. It's what people want.

[20:10:16]

COOPER: It's complex and maybe confusing and upsetting, but it is also real.

GORDON-REED: Its life --

COOPER: It is life.

GORDON-REED: -- and in the way our lives are complicated.

COOPER: And Thomas Jefferson can be an extraordinary figure and have written extraordinary words which a previous guest mentioned, pointed out, you know, Martin Luther King, Jr. used the words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the constitution in the Declaration of Independence.

GORDON-GREEN: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, African-American people have used the words of the Declaration from the time it was first read to make the claim for our Americanness, and that has been the basis -- that what part of the basis of the, you know, of the struggle that we've had is to make real that that creed.

COOPER: Alyssa, this from a political standpoint, though, I mean, you know, the anti-woke movement, it works for what the President wants it to work for.

GRIFFIN: Yes, he's not totally off base in where his base is on this issue. So, there is -- if you were traveling around the country ahead of the election, sure -- the economy, crime, the border were the top issues that polled. But one of the most common things I would hear from Republican voters is we don't like the direction the country is going. It's going to woke, however, they may define that.

And oftentimes, it was we feel like we have to apologize for being Americans. We feel like we have to dwell on our history rather than focus on our accomplishments.

What I would point to is the Smithsonian as an example of how you acknowledge your history, but you also -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. But you also honor the great accomplishments of Americans. I don't think to the point of your intro that that's a place that does just one or the other, but this is something that is incredibly animating with a certain segment of his base. So, I don't think the politics of it are necessarily bad.

How he goes about it will be interesting though. We saw the Kennedy Center board taking over. Is that what he's going to try to do with the Smithsonian? I don't know.

GORDON-REED: Well, the Smithsonian was set up to be an independent entity. It's not supposed to be under the control of the President or, you know, Congress makes appropriations. It does get federal funds. And I suppose that's how he's going to leverage this, to use that power he has. But he doesn't have any specific authority. So, it will be interesting to see what actually happens.

COOPER: One doesn't want a situation where with every incoming new administration because, I mean, whatever is done this time, at some point Donald Trump will not be president and maybe there will be someone else who's president who is --

GORDON-REED: President Newsom, President Pritzker, president whomever and they will have a different vision, and you'll have to switch everything around.

COOPER: Yes, and do we really want our museums and our school kids every time switching suddenly how American history is taught.?

GRIFFIN: Correct things can overcorrect the other direction. Bari Weis, at "The Free Press" had a great piece about this recently, where she pointed out the excesses of the far right. Right now, they are going to feel the whiplash at some point when Democrats win in the far left gets a greater control and sees the power and the expansion of the executive that Donald Trump has put in place, and that is a reason conservatives have always believed we should not expand the power of the presidency, because it could go just as easily the other direction.

COOPER: It's also not as if there is, you know, groundswell of accomplished academic historians who are outraged at portrayals of how the African-American History Museum, you know, is portraying history. It's, I mean, yes, there were controversial things a couple of years ago. The head of the museum, testifying in front of Congress, pointing out something that was written on the website that seemed silly or absurd, offensive to many. He said, yes, it shouldn't have been on there, it was taken off.

Are there -- who do you think the President is going to get to be reviewing the work of all these historians and all these museums?

GORDON-REED: Well, it doesn't appear to be, there will be other historians doing it. It may be --

COOPER: He was talking about lawyers.

GORDON-REED: Yes, lawyers, people whom he appoints to do this, but it won't be, as far as I can tell. I don't know what it's in his head about this, but it doesn't seem to be historians are going to be doing it. People who are outside of the profession, people who haven't been devoting themselves to doing it, so it could be interesting.

But again, I just don't know how it's going to be done in that there's no specific authority that he has to do this. The regents, I suppose if he persuades the regents with the leverage he has because of the federal grants to go along with it, but they will -- they're the ones who are in control of it. And the Vice-President is a part of that and the Chief Justice and other appointees.

So, it may be through that method, the way he will be able to try to do this, but otherwise it's just very unclear how he's going to tell curators and historians and other people what his vision is and why it should obtain.

COOPER: Alyssa, do you think the follow through on this matters as much as the President as the announcement?

GRIFFIN: I think the announcement may be all that we get out of this. I mean, in his last term, he proposed the Garden of American Heroes, which didn't fully materialize, but this was something he wanted to stand up to honor Americans he chose to honor. I think you're far more likely to see something like that. He has a lot more authority to add something, rather than to take over something that's existing. That would be my guess of what he would do instead.

[20:15:13]

COOPER: All right, Alyssa Farah Griffin, thank you. Professor Annette Gordon-Reed, always, thank you so much.

Next question is about what was really accomplished at yesterday's Ukraine Summit and one the President raised today by suggesting Ukraine started the war.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: You don't take -- you don't take on a nation that's ten times your size.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER: Also tonight, all we're learning about House Republicans' plans for releasing certain parts of the Epstein files.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:01]

COOPER: New questions tonight about what progress came out of yesterday's unprecedented White House meeting between the President, Ukraine's President Zelenskyy and seven European leaders. What actual steps were taken toward ending the war in Ukraine, and how much is still, for now, at least undetermined?

For example, a bilateral summit, Zelenskyy-Putin summit. Tonight, the President told talk show host Mark Levin, "They are in the process of setting it up."

Well, earlier today, a reporter asked White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt whether Mr. Putin had in fact, promised such a meeting. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He has and I just answered that question for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The Kremlin has yet to confirm that with Russia's Foreign Minister this morning, adding that, "Any contacts involving top officials should be prepared very carefully."

Well, also this morning, the President weighed in on Fox on the war, suggesting not for the first time that Ukraine started it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: But this was a war and Russia is a powerful military nation. You know, whether people like it or not, it's a powerful nation. It's a much bigger nation. It's not a war that should have been started. You don't do that. You don't take -- you don't take on a nation that's ten times your size.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER: So, just a couple of factual matters, Russia is not ten times the size of Ukraine. It is actually far larger than that by area, by population, it is about four times the size of Ukraine's population and more importantly, Ukraine, obviously, did not start this war.

For more on how this is being received in Kyiv, CNN's Ben Wedeman is there for us tonight.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a day after Zelenskyy and European leaders gathered with President Trump in the White House, Ukrainians are trying to figure out what happened and what comes next.

Hours after Trump phoned Putin from the White House Monday, the Kremlin unleashed its heaviest barrage of drones and ballistic missiles on Ukraine in almost three weeks, killing eight people, hardly a sign Moscow is ready to talk peace.

Monday, Trump hinted at the possibility of U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine as part of security guarantees in the event of a peace agreement. Today, he ruled that out.

Monday, Trump extended a warm welcome to Zelenskyy at the White House, much to everyone's relief. Today, he suggested Ukraine is to blame for Russia's invasion, saying it shouldn't have taken on a country ten times bigger than itself. The White House says Putin will attend a one-on-one meeting with Zelenskyy. Zelenskyy says hell attend, but suspects Russia will slap on a hundred preconditions, making a meeting impossible.

And on that bilateral meeting, Russia has yet to publicly comment. And all of this against a background of unease in Ukraine, where mistrust of the Russian leader is deep, where so many are opposed to letting Russia keep the land it seized, and where many suspect the promises Donald Trump makes today will mean nothing tomorrow -- Anderson.

COOPER: Ben Wedeman, thank you from Ukraine. Joining me now, former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Admiral James Stavridis.

Ambassador Taylor, you heard the White House press secretary say Vladimir Putin promised to hold a direct meeting with Zelenskyy. What does it say to you that Russia has not committed to that yet?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Anderson, Russia -- Putin has no real interest in sitting down with President Zelenskyy. He's not -- He doesn't have an interest in bringing this war to an end. He has an interest in taking over Ukraine and bombarding it and bashing it, bombing it until he gets what he wants. So, what has to happen is you have to be strong and yesterday's discussion with all those Europeans there is one way to start on that.

COOPER: Admiral, you heard the President there saying, you don't take on a nation ten times your size, meaning Russia. It appears, and we've seen evidence of this before, that he thinks Russia is not the aggressor here.

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: Which is ridiculous. Let's face it. Just over three years ago, Vladimir Putin, Sergey Lavrov, his entire team were telling us, oh, were not going to invade Ukraine. We're just conducting military exercises on the borders. Guess what happened? They invaded. That's a fact. This is a war of choice started by Vladimir Putin, including war crimes by Vladimir Putin. And I'm with ambassador Bill Taylor. We have got to stand strong and now put real pressure on Putin if we want him to come to the bargaining table. I hope we do that.

COOPER: Ambassador, in an interview earlier, President Trump specifically ruled out American troops on the ground in Ukraine, that's no real surprise. Ruling it out to enforce any potential peace deal. What could security guarantees look like without U.S. troops?

TAYLOR: Well, the Admiral can tell us much better, Anderson, but there are a lot of capabilities that the Americans have -- that we Americans have, that are based in Europe, they are in Romania, that are in Poland and in Germany -- their air asset, I think the President even talked about using air assets in support of this coalition of the willing. The Europeans, to be to give them their due, to give them credit, have talked about a coalition of the willing that is going to put troops on the ground.

[20:25:16]

COOPER: Is that not predicated, though, Ambassador, on the idea that the U.S. would come to their rescue is needed?

TAYLOR: Maybe, Anderson but we haven't got there yet. What we have is a commitment by Europeans. And now, frankly, a commitment by the Americans to be part of that, to support that. So that's a good thing to have that kind of a deterrent force there to deter the Russians from attacking again.

COOPER: Admiral, the word I think President Trump used was coordination with the U.S. but European countries doing what they're going to do. Do you think Europeans, France, the United Kingdom, for example, would be willing to put troops on the ground in Ukraine if they're not certain the U.S. would be willing to back them up if they're attacked.

STAVRIDIS: They want U.S. backing and it's not just France and the U.K. It's also Germany, Poland, The Baltic States, Sweden and Finland, the two newest members of NATO. I think there are plenty of troops to go around and I concur with the Ambassador.

What the U.S. needs to provide is cyber security, intelligence, logistics muscle, aviation. We need to really back up those F-16s that the Ukrainians are now flying.

All that can be done without putting boots on the ground. I think that's a good division of labor. I suspect that's how this comes out, ultimately.

COOPER: Ambassador, in the same interview earlier, President Trump said about his meeting with Putin in Alaska, "There's a warmth there." Talking about Putin. The President has said on several occasions he feels he has a strong personal relationship with world leaders, that having those relationships is a good thing. How much of a role does that actually play, do you think, in negotiating something like a peace deal with Ukraine?

And, I mean, it echoed to me some of what George W. Bush said early on when first meeting Vladimir Putin, that he looked in his soul and he looked into his eyes and saw his soul.

TAYLOR: So, that personal relationship is not going to win the day. It's not going to achieve the goal. What has to happen, as Admiral Stavridis just said, is we need to be strong. We need to put together a coalition. We need to put pressure on Putin.

And if President Trump can't put pressure on Putin, irrespective of his personal opinions or views or feelings, then that can actually make some difference and that can get us to where we can get to a ceasefire.

COOPER: Do you see any sign of that actually happening? I mean, he said that there would be severe consequences if nothing came out of this summit. If the war didn't end and or pause at least. And you know, he's now backing off his demands previously that there should be a ceasefire.

TAYLOR: There should be a ceasefire. He went into that but, Anderson, the other thing about President Trump is he changes a lot and he's changed before. Putin is going to do what he's done before, and that is going to overplay his hand. He's going to stiff the President. On not showing up at the bilateral. He's going to continue to bomb the Ukrainians night after night after night. President Trump is going to figure it out again, that Putin is the problem and he needs to be pushed, pressured to come to the table for a ceasefire.

COOPER: Admiral, in your opinion, what kind of pressure do you think would be necessary to get Russia to seriously consider a peace deal?

STAVRIDIS: I'll answer that in one second. I just have to add an addendum to your comment, Anderson, that President Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul.

John McCain, Senator John McCain was asked once, well, you met with Putin. You looked into his eyes, what did you see? John McCain said, I saw three letters, KGB, the Russian intelligence community that's what's inside Vladimir Putin's eyes.

In terms of what pressure we need to put on. We need to increase the flow of offensive military weapons. More F-16s, more training for the pilots, more surface-to-surface missiles. We need economic tools in such as confiscating the $300 billion in Russian assets that are in Western Banks and we need, as the Ambassador knows, better than I do, we need diplomatic tools to pull the Ukrainians toward NATO, integrate them, don't bring them in as a full member. That's a bridge too far at the moment. But get them deeply involved with every aspect of NATO.

You do those three things, you'll put real pressure on Putin. We can get him to the table. We can solve this.

COOPER: Admiral Stavridis, I appreciate it, Ambassador Taylor as well.

Up next, it looks like there may soon be documents or some documents in the Jeffrey Epstein case release. We have an update on what's happening on Capitol Hill.

And thousands of Israelis took to the streets demanding Prime Minister Netanyahu strike a deal to free the hostages. Will he agree to a new ceasefire proposal?

[20:30:14]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Amid growing calls on Capitol Hill for more transparency in the Jeffrey Epstein case, including from many Republicans, the House Oversight Committee now says it intends to publicly release some of the files that it subpoenaed. It expects to begin receiving materials from the Justice Department on Friday.

[20:35:07]

Before anything's released, the committee first plans to redact the names of Epstein's victims, as well as sensitive child sexual abuse materials.

A lot to discuss with Julie K. Brown, investigative reporter for the Miami Herald, whose work led to the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein being reopened. She's also the author of "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story." And Jessica Roth, former federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York.

Julie, this is the first time we've spoken since the House Oversight investigation was launched. Your knowledge about this case is better than anybody's. What do you think about who was subpoenaed, and just as importantly, who wasn't?

JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MIAMI HERALD: Well, I think like a lot of people, there's a lot of questions here about the choices of the people they decided to subpoena. It doesn't appear that they've subpoenaed anybody that would be able to explain how Jeffrey Epstein got the light deal that he got to begin with, and how he was able to continue to abuse, you know, hundreds of young girls and women over three decades. So it seems to be, you know, a specifically targeted group of people that perhaps will tell them what they want to hear or won't have the information that the public really wants to begin with.

COOPER: I mean, to your point, they could have subpoenaed the attorney from Miami or from Florida who gave Alex Acosta, who gave Epstein that deal.

BROWN: Well, I'll go even one better. I think the attorney, the prosecutor that they should subpoena would be the line prosecutor, Marie Villafana, who handled the case from top to bottom, and in some ways had tried, but was overruled. But she tried to prosecute Epstein to the full extent of the law. COOPER: She wanted to bring like 60 charges against him, didn't she?

BROWN: That's correct. And there is a draft indictment that should be part of these records that would show the evidence that they had against him at the time. And that's part of the information that the survivors, quite frankly, would like to see.

What did they know? How much did they know at the time that they gave him this sweetheart deal? And who stood in the way? Because Marie Villafana wanted to prosecute him. And the investigation that the DOJ did shortly after my work, my series ran, showed that there were a lot of mistakes that were made.

COOPER: Right.

BROWN: And as a result of those mistakes, he was able to get a lenient deal.

COOPER: Jessica, I mean, what do you make of what this community is doing and the people they haven't called?

JESSICA ROTH, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes, I mean, so for background on the Epstein case, it's clear that federal law enforcement didn't take the allegations of the victims seriously soon enough. When they finally did, it's clear that Epstein got a sweetheart deal from Alex Acosta, the U.S. attorney in Florida. And it's also clear that the victims were not kept apprised of developments in the case.

COOPER: Right. I mean, based on Julie's reporting, they were lied to -- the victims were lied to by prosecutors.

ROTH: The deal was affirmatively kept from them. And so I actually think it would be a worthwhile investigation to find out exactly sort of what happened, why law enforcement was so slow at the federal level to take the allegations seriously. Why Alex Acosta prematurely offered that deal, and whether there was any political interference or favoritism shown. The circumstances certainly smack of favoritism.

And though there have never been adequate answers about sort of how things unfolded, that would be a worthwhile investigation. But if that's what Congress wanted to get to the heart of, in part to decide whether they should legislate in a way that would improve sex trafficking investigations and also address the use of non-prosecution agreements in sex trafficking cases like happened here, they would be calling a different set of witnesses.

I mean, they're calling the people at the very top who are least likely to have granular information about what happened here. And it's a glaring omission that they haven't subpoenaed Alex Acosta, or the prosecutor who was actually building the case against Epstein that was rejected by Acosta.

COOPER: And Julie, I don't know, you are the person for me, which I didn't realize, that Epstein's autopsy has never been released. Is that something the -- was that subpoenaed at all by folks on Capitol Hill?

BROWN: Not that I know of. And certainly, I don't even understand why they're not releasing that. His -- Epstein's brother, his next of kin, has been on the record in interviews saying that he has concerns about the way that investigation was handled and that he himself hasn't been able to get information that he's requested about his own brother's death.

So, you know, there are a myriad of problems here. And what the Oversight Committee right now is doing doesn't seem to address any of those issues.

COOPER: And, Jessica, just in terms of Ghislaine Maxwell, she's been now transferred to this, you know, far less onerous prison. Any clue -- I mean, we don't know why. We don't know what -- if there's -- I mean, it seems -- you know, a lot of people think there's some sort of deal being made. What do we know?

[20:40:17]

ROTH: Yes, it's hard to know exactly what to make of it. It's hard to imagine that it's disconnected from her meetings with the Deputy Attorney General. I mean, certainly her transfer --

COOPER: Those were like -- those meetings went on for like two days.

ROTH: Yes, it's unclear whether they're going to be taken up again. Certainly her transfer would make future meetings easier, be easier for people to get to her, to meet with her. But it's really hard to know exactly what prompted it in terms of whether there was a deal specifically struck and what it is that the Department of Justice is planning with regard to Ms. Maxwell going forward.

She still has an appeal pending before the Supreme Court of the United States, by the way, where her main issue on appeal has goes back to the terms of the sweetheart deal that Jeffrey Epstein get --

COOPER: Right.

ROTH: -- got that provided immunity to unnamed co-conspirators.

COOPER: Julie, what's your thoughts on Maxwell?

BROWN: Well, the one thing that sometimes is forgotten here is that her sister lives in Texas. So the geography of this perhaps played a part of it. I'm sure she wanted to get closer to her family, who, by the way, has been supporting her pretty publicly on social media.

They formed a website and they've been out there trying to, you know -- you know, they've been out there in her corner. So I think that part of it is that she probably wanted to get closer to her family and probably requested some kind of arrangement where she could go to a prison that was closer to her sister.

COOPER: Julie, I really appreciate your time, as always. Julie K. Brown, Jessica Roth as well. Thank you. Tomorrow on my broadcast, my conversation with Amanda and Skye Roberts, the sister-in-law and brother of one of Jeffrey Epstein's survivors, Virginia Giuffre, who died by suicide earlier this year.

Just ahead, a CNN exclusive. Clarissa Ward talks to a freed hostage who recalls how he and other hostages relied on each other.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'd love to get a sense from you of the bond between hostages.

ELIYA COHEN, FORMER ISRAELI HOSTAGE: The experience there and the connection of us, you know, the situation made us really connected. We really love each other.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Also tonight, the latest on Hurricane Erin, which is pounding parts of the East Coast with destructive waves and a powerful storm surge. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:47:16]

COOPER: Tonight, we're waiting to hear if Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will accept a proposal put forward by Qatar and Egypt that calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, as well as the release of about half the 50 remaining Israeli hostages and dozens of Palestinian prisoners.

Last night, Hamas said it accepts the proposal, which is similar to a ceasefire plan that was on the table until negotiations broke down last month. Pressure is building on Netanyahu. On Sunday, hundreds of thousands of Israelis took to the streets, demanding that he reach a deal that will bring all the hostages home and stop the violent war.

One Israeli hostage, who was released back in February after more than a year in captivity, is speaking out tonight about his ordeal. CNN's Clarissa Ward has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

COHEN: I feel guilty. I feel guilty by myself. When I eat, I feel guilty. When I get shower, I feel guilty. When I go to the hospital to check something, I feel guilty because I know what they go through right now.

WARD (voice-over): Eliya Cohen has been free for six months, but he's still imprisoned by the knowledge that his fellow hostages are not. Eliya and his girlfriend Ziv Abud were at the Nova Music Festival on October 7th, 2023. When rockets started raining down, they ran to a shelter, only to come under attack by Hamas militants.

COHEN: And they threw the first grenade inside. The grenade exploded and killed the most people in -- at the entrance (ph). At that moment, I jumped on Ziv, and I told her, Ziv, I love you. I took dead bodies, and they covered me and Ziv to survive. They came inside and they started to shoot, and then I got shot in my leg.

WARD: What's going through your mind in this moment?

COHEN: I really start to pray to God, to tell him, God, I love you. Please keep me alive. And they came inside. And when I opened my eyes, I saw them film us with a big smile. And when I came out of the shelter, so I saw so many people with RPG, with grenade, with Kalashnikov, with a lot of tools to kill people.

They were so high. For me, I saw them, they laugh, they sing like a crazy people.

WARD (voice-over): Eliya was bundled onto the back of a truck and taken to Gaza. Also on that truck, Israeli-American Hersh Goldberg- Polin. His hand blown off trying to throw a grenade out of the shelter. The pair would later be held together for a short time.

COHEN: We took a lot for three days. After three days, they told him that, Hersh, wake up, you go to your mother. It's happy day. You go to your mother. Be happy.

[20:50:07]

And he gave me his book. He got some book in English. I didn't know to speak English before.

WARD: You didn't know how to speak English before?

COHEN: Yes, I didn't know. I'm not speaking English before. He told me, take it from me, because I go home. Keep it for you. So it really gave me power to continue, because I said to myself that Hersh came back home. May he will come to my mother and to my father to tell him that I'm alive and I will be OK.

WARD (voice-over): But Hersh never came back home. He was executed by Hamas, along with five other hostages.

COHEN: So for me, it was difficult, because I really love him. We were for three days, but it felt like we were friends for 10 years.

WARD: I'd love to get a sense from you of the bond between hostages.

COHEN: The experience there and the connection of us, you know, the situation made us really connected. We really love each other.

WARD (voice-over): Most of Eliya's captivity was spent deep in tunnels, alongside fellow hostages Or Levy, Alon Ohel and Eli Sharabi. He says he went an entire year without brushing his teeth, at one point surviving on a single can of beans shared between them each day.

COHEN: I can tell you about a lot of situation that they came and really tried to do any turtle to laugh on us, like --

WARD: Mind games.

COHEN: Yes, like mind games. You can call it mind games. After something like eight months without mattress, without nothing, we slept on the floor. They came with big smile and they told us, we have big good news for you.

We gave you mattress, but we have bad news. We gave you just three. So check who slept on the floor and -- who will sleep on the floor and who will sleep on the mattress.

And we look to each other. You know, nobody want to continue to sleep on the floor after so many days we tried. One of the hostages, his name is Alon Ohel and that's still there. He came and told to the terrorist, give the mattress for them, I will sleep on the floor.

WARD (voice-over): After 505 days, Eliya was finally released, reunited with his parents and his girlfriend Ziv, who he had assumed was killed in the shelter.

COHEN: And then I met Ziv and it was like a dream. For a week, it felt like a dream. I look at her and I told her, Ziv, I can't believe you're here because I saw she survived.

WARD: And now you guys are getting married, is that right?

COHEN: I can't tell you this in the news

WARD (voice-over): Since his release, Ziv is always by his side.

COHEN: She wants to join us.

WARD: She wants to join us?

COHEN: Yes.

WARD: OK. Let's put a microphone on you.

I mean, Ziv, did you ever let yourself imagine that moment while you were waiting for Eliya?

ZIV ABUD, ELIYA COHEN'S GIRLFRIEND: No, not really, because I was scared. I never let myself to imagine this moment. Because I don't want -- I didn't want to fall, you know. I told to myself, I believe just when I see that Eliya crossed the border to Israel with, you know, with soldier, and this is the moment that I look and told to myself, OK, now you can breathe.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WARD (on-camera): Anderson, during the ceasefire, Eliya did an interview with Israeli media where he said basically that if the fighting continued, he believed it would be, quote, "a death sentence" for the hostages.

During our conversation, he was very careful not to criticize Prime Minister Netanyahu or his plan to occupy the whole of Gaza. But other hostage families have been more outspoken, Anderson.

COOPER: Clarissa Ward, thanks so much.

Up next, more breaking news. The new advisory on Hurricane Erin. As the powerful storms start to affect North Carolina's coast in a very dangerous, potentially destructive way without ever directly hitting land. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:59:18]

COOPER: More breaking news, tropical storm watch is now extended into parts of Virginia as Hurricane Erin threatens much of the East Coast with huge waves and storm surge, all without ever directly hitting land. Along North Carolina's coast where tropical storm warnings are in effect, already some beach homes on barrier islands are being battered and officials fear they could collapse into the ocean.

In addition, rip current alerts are up along much of the eastern seaboard. Already at least 75 people have been rescued at North Carolina's Wrightsville Beach over the past two days alone. A number of beaches from Virginia all the way north to New York City are keeping swimmers out of the water until Erin is no longer considered a threat.

Tonight, the storm is now a Cat 2 hurricane with maximum sustained winds near 105 miles an hour. As for where exactly it's headed, according to the latest bulletin, it is expected to track north into the open Atlantic. And that is really some good news, at least, that it won't be making landfall.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source starts now.