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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Parole Hearing Underway for Erik Menendez, 36 years After He and Brother Murdered their Parents; Interview with Rep. Ro Khanna; House Oversight Chair Still Expecting Committee will Receive Epstein Documents on Friday; Russia Launches Its Biggest Attack More Than A Month While Accusing Ukraine Of Not Being Interested In Peace; Residents In Southern Ukrainian City Fight To Hang On Against Russian Assaults; Texas Moves Closer To Redrawing Congressional Map; Journalist Rescued After Surviving 5 Days In Wilderness. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 21, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: ... win in Florida. He won because of his massive margin among mail-in votes. He was able to win that by about 125,000, barely overcoming Al Gore's margin in in-person voting of about 124,000. So, historically speaking, mail-in votes actually benefited Republicans until Donald Trump, of course, came along and bashed it.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Even though they helped him win.

ENTEN: Even though they helped him it.

BURNETT: It's amazing.

ENTEN: Unbelievable.

BURNETT: All right, thank you so much Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you as always. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:33]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, thirty-six years almost to the day since he and his brother Lyle murdered their parents, Erik Menendez goes before a parole board with Lyle set to do the same tomorrow.

Also tonight, with just hours left until the Justice Department is supposed to start sharing the Epstein files with the House Committee. All the questions surrounding it, including what the public could see, what the administration or the committee might withhold.

And later, my conversation with the true survivor about his plunge down a mountain and how he sustained himself afterwards for almost a week with no communications, little water, little food, and a badly broken leg.

Good evening, thanks for joining us. After spending more than 30 years behind bars, Erik Menendez tonight could be just minutes away from another step toward freedom. He's in front of a California Parole Board. His brother Lyle's hearing is tomorrow. The proceedings with Erik have been going on since 11:30 this morning, Eastern Time.

A judge's ruling in may set the stage for this all, reducing their sentences from life without parole to life for their murder convictions in the 1989 killings of their mother and father after what they claimed were years of emotional and sexual abuse by their dad. Leading up to May's sentence reduction, new evidence in the case, a Netflix documentary and pleas from Menendez family members for the brothers released from prison.

Which brings us to tonight, CNN's Nick Watt, who is monitoring the parole hearings development, joins us. What's the latest, Nick?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, just gone 5:00 P.M. in the West. Still no decision, but we are still expecting one today. Now, this is how the two sides basically line up the L.A. D.A. who is against parole, he said before the hearings, the Menendez brothers have never fully accepted responsibility for the horrific murders of their parents.

On parole, he says not never, just not now. As you mentioned the family, they want the brothers out. And they said before the hearings they've taken full accountability. They express sincere remorse to our family. The hearings will concentrate, though, on the danger. Would they pose a danger to society if they are released? And, Anderson, let's just take a look at how we got here.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WATT (voice over): Erik Menendez appeared via video link from a prison near San Diego. Now 54, just 18, when he and his brother Lyle murdered their parents, Jose and Kitty then lied about it.

DISPATCHER: What happened?

LYLE MENENDEZ: (Crying) I don't know, I wasn't here.

WATT (voice over): They say their dad was a sexual abuser, and they killed in self-defense. Prosecutors then and now claim the brothers killed their parents for their money.

L. MENENDEZ: Erik and I killed our parents together.

WATT (voice over): A Netflix series starring Javier Bardem as Jose Menendez and a documentary on the case reignited the public interest. That, along with some recently unearthed evidence regarding the alleged sexual abuse inflicted by their father, spurred the brothers to push for clemency, a new trial or parole.

Back in '96, they were sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. In May, a judge moved by favorable testimony from correctional officers, re-sentenced them to life, with the possibility of parole.

NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We disagree with the ultimate conclusion reached by this judge in this particular case.

WATT (voice over): That's L.A.'s current D.A. against parole because he says they've stuck with the lie. This was self-defense.

The Menendez family, however, is in favor of their release. Even Jose's sister thinks the brothers have done their time.

TERESITA BARALT, JOSE MENENDEZ'S SISTER: Thirty-five years is a long time.

WATT (voice over): Whatever the parole board decides, the final decision on whether to let them out or keep them incarcerated is up to California Governor Gavin Newsom. He has until January.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's done a great job of not showing his hand. And I do think that no matter what the parole board decides, he will do that independent analysis.

WATT (voice over): The fact remains, 36 years ago, last night, August 20th, 1989, Erik and Lyle Menendez shot their defenseless parents multiple times. The question remains have they served enough time? Tomorrow, Lyle's turn to make his case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Nick, I'm wondering what sort of the public perception of the Menendez brothers is in California these days.

WATT: You know, it's interesting, Anderson, it has changed massively. I mean, back in the 90's, during the trials, the image of them was definitely the entitled, spoiled country club kids who had murdered their parents for the money. That has changed a lot over the years.

You know, the drama, the documentary, and, you know, there's a whole new generation of people who weren't even born when the murders took place, who have seen this on TikTok. Kim Kardashian has come out and said that there should be parole.

Largely, a lot of that is down to shift over time in how we view sexual assault, and you know, what people might do who were subjected to that. That has been a big shift. So I would say now it's still divided, but there is a lot more sympathy for these brothers now than there was back in the day.

But ultimately, the only opinion that really matters is going to be Gavin Newsom. He decides whether they get out or they don't -- Anderson.

[20:05:44]

COOPER: Nick Watt, thanks very much.

Joining us now is former federal prosecutor Elie Honig and NewsNation correspondent-at-large, Geraldo Rivera, who has been covering this case almost from the beginning, starting his legendary talk show, "Geraldo". Geraldo, which way do you think the parole board is going to go?

GERALDO RIVERA, NEWSNATION CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Well, the parole board is the only chance they have. I think Gavin Newsom will turn it down, but the parole board might be swayed by some of the P.R. campaign that's been massive. I have absolutely no sympathy. I have to say. Maybe it's because I have covered it from the very beginning. These are two thugs who savagely murdered their parents. A close range shotgun blasts. Jose Menendez could not even be recognized. His face was blown off, the mother's limbs were shot to hell. And then they lied about it, spent all the money.

You know, I remember -- I remember the, you know, they were the darlings of Beverly Hills for a time. Now, they are again with Kim Kardashian and the Netflix documentary. Netflix could make Charlie Manson look good if they wanted to.

I think that they are exactly where they should be. The risk of them resorting or returning, I should say, to the conduct as young men, probably slim, but not insignificant. I think the parole board said it was moderate. So, moderate risk they seldom get out. I think you're looking at people who will be in for the rest of their lives -- Anderson.

COOPER: Elie, what do you think? There was, I mean, obviously allegations of sexual abuse by them against their father and obviously their behavior while in prison.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so just to add to what Geraldo just said, if somebody gets a moderate designation as the brothers have received here, typically, about 30 percent of those people are given parole. So, that gives us some idea of what the expectation should be. Look, I'm no bleeding heart. I was a prosecutor for 14 years. Everything Geraldo says about the murders is true. But the question for parole really is forward looking is -- have they been rehabilitated? Can they be safely released?

Now, one big thing that has changed is they made a self-defense argument back in their trials in the 1990s. And the first one, at least, they were allowed to. And we think of it much differently now. They were subjected to vicious, horrible sexual abuse. I mean, I'm not even -- I can't get into the details here, but its available and does it -- is it technically a self-defense claim? No its not, but does it explain what they did? Does it put it in important perspective? Yes.

And also, let's keep in mind they've been in prison for 35 to 36 years now. They've missed their entire 20s, 30s, 40s into their 50s. They've had good behavior and it's not about -- I'm not asking for sympathy for them, I don't have sympathy. But it's a question of have they been rehabilitated?

COOPER: This was abused by their father?

HONIG: By their father? Yes. The mother was not directly involved. And look, that's tricky because the father was the one who was directly sexually abusing the boys. The mother certainly knew, certainly turned a blind eye. But it's much harder to justify the murder -- the cold- blooded murder of the mother.

COOPER: Geraldo, does the sexual abuse that they were subjected to, does that sway you in any way?

RIVERA: Yes, for some acts, there is no excuse. I have no idea whether or not Jose Menendez sexually abused his boys. You know, in my mind, most of the evidence has been generated way, ex post facto, way after the fact. Where was all this evidence initially? Instead, they said it was self-defense. They were defending themselves, defending themselves so they could slaughter their parents and take their parents' money, go on spending sprees.

You know, it's easy for them to act out now, act, you know, we're rehabilitated and we're very remorseful and all the rest of it. Would you want to live next door to the Menendez brothers? Would anyone want to? Would anyone trust your loved ones with this duo?

COOPER: Let me let me ask you, because you've covered a lot of notorious killers. I remember you interviewed Charles Manson. Do you think the Menendez brothers could have been rehabilitated? I mean, people do, you know, in prison, you know, for long sentences and people who are incarcerated, you know, can change their lives, no?

[20:10:09]

RIVERA: When I interviewed Charles Manson in San Quentin Prison, Anderson, he was the number one selling t-shirt in the country. Helter Skelter, it was -- people -- he had a charm about him, a menace about him that was magnetic to people. They gathered around him in a cult and of sympathy and oh, woe is Charlie. Its bogus, Anderson.

Everybody -- I've interviewed plenty of people in prison. They were all so sorry. You know, it'll never happen again. I don't know what happened. I go back to if it were your family at risk with these people, would you take this chance?

Newsom turned down Sirhan Sirhan, the killer of Robert Kennedy, in '22. I think that Newsom will turn this down also. But I think that, like Sirhan Sirhan and Charles Manson, these brothers are experts at generating sympathy for themselves. I see right through it. I remember the virtually headless body of their father and how they enjoyed their life in Beverly Hills following the blood wasn't even dry in the mansion they inherited, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, Elie, I mean, from the D.A.'s point of view, what is the argument to keep them?

HONIG: Well, I think Geraldo just articulated it quite well. They committed a very serious crime, and they don't deserve any sympathy. I do want to say this. The evidence that that the boys were sexually abused is quite powerful and overwhelming. I mean, they testified about it. They testified that one of the brothers then sexually abused the other brother. Why would they make that up? And also, the new evidence --

COOPER: Lyle sexually abused --

HONIG: -- the older brother, yes, Lyle, the older brother sexually abused the younger brother in horrific fashion. And they've both admitted that that to me -- why would you make that up? Also, the new evidence that's come out really supports that there was. There's contemporaneous accounts, there was a letter that one of the brothers wrote to a cousin at the time saying he had been sexually abused. And there's another person, a young man, who had been a member of the pop band, "Menudo" which the father managed, that said, the father did the same thing to him. So, I don't really have any question.

And with respect to the rehabilitation point Geraldo raises, it's a very fair question, right? Would you want these guys on your block? Rational people could say no, but again, I'm coming to you as a prosecutor for 14 years. I have seen people, I will say cooperating witnesses, but I have people who have committed murders. They've cooperated. They're out in the world right now and they are doing okay. They are not dangers any longer.

I do think that over 30 to 35 years people can change. They can get better not to be too rosy about this.

COOPER: Geraldo, says he thinks Newsom probably wouldn't go ahead with this. What do you think?

HONIG: Yes, I don't have a great insight into the mind of Gavin Newsom. My only prediction for Gavin Newsom is he will do whatever serves his own political standing and interests best at that very moment.

COOPER: And, Geraldo, you don't think the abuse merits a lesser, a lesser sentence?

RIVERA: I think that that kind of abuse is horrifying. I also believe that there is such a thing as the abuse excuse where they, after the fact, say, how can I make my case best to mitigate what I did, to put what I did in some kind of context?

I know we'll make up this horrible story. Okay, Erik, okay, Lyle, you say this, I say that and, you know, and then you talk to Grandma. I'll talk to Aunt Tilly. I have no doubt but that these manipulative punks deserve exactly what they got.

COOPER: Geraldo Rivera, it's good to have you on, Elie Honig as well. We'll see what happens now.

RIVERA: Thank you.

COOPER: Exclusive new CNN reporting on the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, a little more than three years ago. Now, you'll remember 21 people, 19 of them children, were killed by a shooter. A number of them died as dozens and dozens of first responders stood by waiting. They did not confront the killer until 77 minutes after he entered the school. They weren't ordered into the classroom until then.

The story tonight, what school officials are withholding from the public despite a court order to do otherwise? Documents about school security that might have been useful to know about before the shooting, and would certainly figure into the search for accountability now.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins us now with more. Shimon, you've been on this story for since the shooting happened. What's the latest now? What have you learned?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, over three years now, that sort of we're facing the same situation we faced three years ago where there was stonewalling by law enforcement and not releasing information and authorities. And here yet again, we are at this moment where the school finally agreed to release information. There was a court order and yet again, what we're learning is that key pieces of information that were expected to be released were not released and one of those things is what you just mentioned.

There was an e-mail nine months, nine months before the shooting on in May of 2022, the principal of the school, Mandy Gutierrez at the time, was so concerned about security at the school that she sent, an e-mail saying, look, we have substitute teachers here who do not have keys to classroom doors and therefore they can't lock them. We need to do something about that. And by everything I've seen and everything I've read, this is the first time were learning of this e-mail and also there doesn't appear to be anything that they did after that, after she sent that e-mail.

[20:15:40]

And so, the other thing that we've learned is that the former police chief there of the school, Pete Arredondo, when he was under fire for what officials said was his lack of command on that day during the time that they were looking to fire him from the school, there were actually settlement talks with him about settling his potential employment there, maybe some kind of a payout to him. We don't have all of that information, but there are e-mails relating to that that the school is withholding at this point. We'll see what happens in the coming weeks.

There's going to be a school board meeting and perhaps on Monday we will hear more information about that. But for now, there are key pieces of information, Anderson, that are being withheld.

COOPER: Shimon Prokupecz, I appreciate it.

Continuing on the theme of transparency, coming up next, the Epstein files, what members of the House Oversight Committee could see of them when and if the administration starts sharing them under subpoena tomorrow. Committee member, Ro Khanna joins us.

And later, my conversation with the man lucky to be alive after six days, badly injured and alone in remote wilderness. How he survived and how a wrong step has changed his life forever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEC LUHN, 38-YEAR-OLD CLIMATE JOURNALIST FROM WISCONSIN: I took a wrong step and I just remember sliding down the mountain at first and then spinning down the mountain, rolling down the mountain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:28]

COOPER: It took a House subpoena to get there, compel the Trump administration to do what after months of buildup it has failed to. Tomorrow, if all goes according to plan, the Justice Department will begin sharing files related to the investigation of the late sex offender and accused child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. They'll be going to the House Oversight Committee after Republican and Democratic Committee members teamed up to push for the subpoena.

Now, this is happening in the wake of a third federal judge refusing administration request to unseal grand jury proceedings in the case openly calling those requests a diversion from the DOJ files.

California Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna serves on the House Oversight Committee. He joins us now. So, Congressman, what do you expect to see when these redacted documents are released to your committee tomorrow? And do you believe you'll ultimately get all of the files the Justice Department has?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): So far, they have just been a trickle. I hope that they are more. I hope they just don't give us more information that is already public. The other problem is that they still have not reached out to the victims lawyers, people like Bradley Edwards. I mean, they should be conferring with what the victims want and the victims want a full release.

Now, we will when we get back to Congress, we have a bipartisan bill. Thomas Massie and I, that we are going to bring for a vote. As you remember, Speaker Johnson shut down the whole Congress because he didn't want to vote on this. So, the pressure is going to continue to build. And I'm hopeful that they will comply and give us all of the documents while protecting the victim's identity.

COOPER: Do you, I mean, do you have any idea of what they will be sending over? I mean, do you have any sense of like, the level of redaction of these documents or the -- I mean, do you get any advance notice of exactly kind of what format they're going to be?

KHANNA: We don't and it's shocking to me that they're doing the redactions without consulting with the victims' lawyers. I mean, you would think that that's normal process, but all we've known is that they've been reluctant to do it. They've been slow to do it. I expect from what I'm hearing that it's probably going to be a trickle of documents, and they're going to continue to drag this on. They should just release everything other than the victim's identities or anything explicit. And what people really want to know is who was responsible. Why are rich and powerful men who abused young girls being protected? And what group is it that's so powerful that they have a hold on the United States government that we can't release this information?

COOPER: If there were names unredacted in the documents handed over to you, would you release those names if those if there was evidence they had committed a crime?

KHANNA: Yes, at this point. I mean, I mean, not the victim's names, but you're saying if they're interview memos or information about people who are implicated in Epstein, I understand some concerns. Look, there may have been someone who innocently talked to Epstein about getting funding for cancer research or philanthropy. But I believe at this point, the American people are capable of making a judgment and that we should just have the full release and transparency, given the stakes, and then rely on the decency and common sense of the American people.

If we don't do that in this case, you really are going to continue to erode trust in government.

COOPER: I was talking to Julie Kate Brown, the reporter who's done so much work on this, she pointed out that the autopsy file of Jeffrey Epstein has never been released. Is that something you would be interested in seeing?

[20:25:02]

KHANNA: I would, I mean, our request of subpoena and all the legislation calls for release of all of the files. The reality is, look, there are people who believe in this country that powerful people are being protected. Jeffrey Epstein, as you know, got a sweetheart deal at first, it made no sense. The victims were never consulted. This has dragged on for years. In fact, we have a press conference with the victims coming on September 3rd and some of them are speaking for the first time. Their voices have been totally drowned out. And what the American people want is just all of the facts to come out and then let the chips fall where they may.

COOPER: Congressman Ro Khanna, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Joining me now is investigative reporter Sarah Fitzpatrick, who's been covering the Jeffrey Epstein case for nearly a decade, most recently for "The Atlantic." Sarah, it's good to see you. Based on what your sources are telling you. What do you believe, what's actually going to happen with these documents tomorrow?

SARAH FITZPATRICK, "THE ATLANTIC," SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I think tomorrow it is unlikely that the public will learn anything new or see anything that is in any way, material, in any way, moves the story forward. There is a large schedule of material. I'm told that it will be substantial. But my sources on the Hill do not yet know exactly what is going to be in that exactly what format it will come in. And I think everyone involved in this case, from the Justice Department to the Hill and beyond, is really concerned about inadvertently releasing information about victims, about child, you know, ultimate crimes here.

And so, I think that those documents -- some documents will arrive at the Hill tomorrow in some fashion, but it is going to take a long time of careful review and preparation, because no one wants to make a wrong step right now while the stakes are so high.

So, I think, again, the public's expectations and even the Congressman's expectations I don't think are going to be met tomorrow, unfortunately.

COOPER: It's so interesting because so many of these expectations have been stoked by years of conspiracy theories and people pushing, you know, false flight lists and things on the internet and making up stories. You've spoken with victims and their families, I mean, how are they dealing with this upcoming release of documents? How much transparency do they want here?

FITZPATRICK: I think everyone wants the utmost transparency. And I think victims and their families, as well as my sources throughout law enforcement or other people that have been connected to this case in some way this case is, as you said, has so many conspiracy theories. And every time it comes up, it is immensely painful for anyone who was involved because it was so tragic. The trauma is so real and quite frankly, the harassment that they receive on a daily basis, the fear for their safety because their names have been mentioned for doing the right thing and coming forward, they're panicked.

And it is a really important point that their families and their legal representatives have not been contacted by the Justice Department, have not been contacted by Congress. And so, they are effectively feeling like their lives and the worst -- some of the worst experiences of their lives that they hope to forget are being used for political warfare and not in the furtherance of the truth.

So, I think these families, they are hopeful that it will be done in a responsible way, that it will be truly done in a transparent way. But I think the vast majority of everyone I talk to feels that this is a stunt, and their lives are the ones hanging in the balance.

COOPER: Any -- I mean, will any of the documents being sent over, you know, to this committee, will they deal at all with the prosecutors and why, you know, the deals were made with Jeffrey Epstein and how those deals were made. And, I mean, is there any actual transparency going to be there? Because he never really, I mean, he testified once, but he's never really been asked a lot of questions.

FITZPATRICK: Exactly, I think there's a lot of kind of documentation or investigative work that could have been done in the meantime or that has been done. Remember, there have been multiple investigations by the Southern District of New York, in Florida, there have been private settlements and litigation that have gone through.

So, there's a lot of paper. There's a huge universe of information here. And some of that I think could be very telling and could help the public understand how just this colossal failure, on in our justice system happened. But the reality is, a lot of this paper will have to do with victims, and that will be a very difficult process. And ultimately, the laws are very, very strong. If the law is upheld, that, you know, people should not be punished for coming forward and having trusted the government. And I think that's a real question for all sorts of people right now, is they don't trust the justice system. They feel that it had failed them multiple, multiple times. And now they're seeing, you know, yes, there are these calls for transparency. But I think it's really important that the Justice Department could release this information of their own accord, and they've chosen not to or even President Trump. He made a statement, on Air Force One, in which he said, yes, Virginia Giuffre was stolen by Epstein, as was someone else.

We have asked multiple times, who was that other person? What does the President know about that? And we've received no answers. So, I think the question is who is benefiting from this "transparency"? And there's all sorts of things that could be done to increase that transparency.

COOPER: Sarah Fitzpatrick, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

Just ahead what President Trump now is suggesting that Ukraine should do as Russia launches its biggest attack in more than a month.

Also, tonight, a hiker trapped on a mountainside for nearly a week with broken bones, unable to move, unable to walk opens up about his ordeal and his rescue.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ALEC LUHN, JOURNALIST RESCUED IN NORWAY: The helicopter came and I could hear the rotors. And I was hearing -- at this point, I was hearing a lot of auditory hallucinations. And I heard this kind of heavenly music behind the helicopter.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

[20:35:45]

COOPER: For all the talk of a possible peace deal to end Russia's war in Ukraine today, more bloodshed. Russia launched its biggest attack in more than a month while simultaneously accusing Ukraine of not being interested in reaching a settlement.

Ukraine says Russia fired a total of 574 strike drones and 40 missiles, killing at least nine civilians. Ukraine's President saying that Russia's massive attacks demonstrate that Moscow is, quote, "trying to wriggle out of the need to hold a meeting."

To that point, President Trump, who said after his Alaska summit last week with Vladimir Putin that plans for bilateral talks between Russia and Ukraine are underway, now appears to be acknowledging that momentum for any deal has stalled. Suggesting today in a post on Truth Social that Ukraine should go on the offensive and strike Russian territory.

Despite Russia increasing the intensity of its attacks, Ukrainians are not backing down.

CNN's Ben Wedeman reports tonight from Orikhiv in southern Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Russian train full of fuel goes up in a blaze of fire and smoke struck by Ukrainian drones. This new era of warfare combines high tech with close quarters combat harking back to the First World War. The same brigade that took part in the train strike is also fighting in the trenches.

Infantry Squad Commander Yevhenii returned at 5:00 in the morning from a deadly six-man attack on a Russian position.

YEVHENII, INFANTRY SQUAD COMMANDER, 65TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

WEDEMAN (voice-over): "One of my men was killed," he says. "Two took shrapnel. Two of us got concussions from drone attacks and mortar fire."

His men managed to kill a Russian soldier, then had to withdraw and came here, well underground, where the war is barely audible.

WEDEMAN: This complex of bunkers and trenches is not the front line. It's well away in the rear. The purpose is that they will be ready in the event the Russians push forward. And what we're hearing from senior Ukrainian officials is that they fear that the Russians are preparing for a major push in the Zaporizhzhia area.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Until then, this is where troops from the 65th Mechanized Brigade rest and recuperate. Cramped and stuffy, yet safe. The cats welcome company also keeping the mice at bay. They're resting up for their next mission, defending the town of Orikhiv, or what's left of it.

Only 800 of its original 14,000 residents remain. Oleksandr is the only handyman left, with plenty to keep him busy.

"Windows, doors, roofs, you can see for yourself. Everything needs repairs," he says.

In the town's Post Office, the last vestige of normalcy, we meet Liudmyla, who lives alone with her two dogs. Her day started with shelling.

"When it hit, I thought that was the end of everything," she says. To lighten her mood, I share pictures of hobbies and pets.

WEDEMAN: These are my potatoes.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Communicating in a linguistic hodgepodge. (Speaking in Foreign Language)

WEDEMAN: Not too bad, huh.

(Speaking in Foreign Language)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): We share a laugh. Her dog, Alpha, shell-shocked, was unmoved.

Far away is the powerful talk, war and peace. Here, the powerless can only hold on and hope to live another day.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Orikhiv, Southern Ukraine.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: Up next, we'll hear from an American hiker seriously injured and trapped on a glacier in Norway for nearly a week, when help miraculously arrived.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

LUHN: And finally, the side door of the helicopter opened, and somebody waved back at me, and that's when I knew that it was all going to finally be over.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Also ahead tonight, breaking news, a vote expected in Texas to redraw the state's congressional map to favor Republicans. Democratic Strategist James Carville weighs in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:44:40]

COOPER: Tonight, an American journalist is recuperating in a hospital in Norway, lucky to be alive. 38-year-old Alec Luhn is grateful for a second chance at life after getting badly injured while hiking. On July 31st, he began a week-long solo hike up a glacier in a Norwegian national park. A few thousand feet up, he slipped and fell, seriously injuring himself.

He was trapped for six days with little food and water. Early in his hike, the sole of his left boot came undone. He taped it up but kept hiking. That, he says, was his first mistake.

[20:45:09]

I spoke with Alec Luhn shortly before airtime.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Alec, first of all, I'm so glad you're OK. So you'd been hiking for several hours. The sole of one of your boots is falling off. You tape it up with tape, and then you're pretty high up, and you fall. How far did you fall? How bad was the fall?

LUHN: I took a wrong step, and I just remember sliding down the mountain at first, and then spinning down the mountain, rolling down the mountain.

COOPER: Wow.

LUHN: And then pretty much just pinballing down the mountain, where I was bouncing off things, and I was in my backpack, which was taking impacts from stuff.

COOPER: You had some granola bars, I think, or some kind of food stocks that you could reach, but thirst was a huge issue.

LUHN: Yes, it was a trial by drought the first couple days, it felt like, because there was just no rain, no weather, it was very hot, and I didn't have anything to drink. Then the second day I was out there, I just started thinking, this is -- you know, I've been two days without water, this is really bad, this could be, you know, a real concern.

And I also couldn't really chew the peanuts or granola bars because my mouth was so dry, the food just kind of turned to concrete inside it, and I couldn't swallow it. So, you know, I knew I had to do something about it, so the next time that I had to pee, I peed in my water pouch, and then I was -- yes, I drank my urine, basically, to have a little bit of hydration, and to also get a little bit of food down.

COOPER: I want to play the video of your rescue when you were finally found. It's incredible to see you're waving the -- well, what is it you're waving? Because I think this is -- is this the first time the helicopter came, or the second time?

LUHN: This would have been the second time. So I'm -- I have my tent pole with a red bandana tied on the end of my tent pole to try and get attention, and the helicopter came, and I could hear the rotors. And I was hearing -- at this point, I was hearing a lot of auditory hallucinations, and I heard this kind of heavenly music behind the helicopter as it was coming up towards me.

COOPER: Wow.

LUHN: And then the helicopter was maybe 500 yards away from me, but it was just positioned right, just scanning the mountainside very, very slowly, and it didn't see me. And so, you know, for maybe 45 minutes, I was waving at the helicopter, yelling, trying to get it to notice me, and it was -- but it was just doing its work on a slightly different section of the mountainside, and just didn't see me at all. And then it flew away.

COOPER: Oh my gosh.

LUHN: And I thought, you know, I thought either, you know, either they're just refueling or something, or I just missed my one shot. And so that's when I got out that tent pole, tied a bandana on the end of it, took off my other coat so that I'd have my red coat on and be the most visible I could be. And finally, the side door of the helicopter opened, and somebody waved back at me, and that's when I knew that it was all going to finally be over.

COOPER: What did you -- it was your wife who, you know, you didn't board your flight. She alerted authorities, got the ball rolling on the search and rescue that ultimately led to your rescue. What did you say to her once you were able to speak to her?

LUHN: She said, I'm going to rip you a new one, but now, now I love you.

COOPER: You know, you have all these realizations when you're on that mountain. You have the opportunity to make them come true. Does it -- do you think it will change your life?

LUHN: Yes, it already has. It's -- I've got a new lease on life, and I've realized that I need to appreciate my family and the time I have with them now because life can be very short. And you know, all the hiking goals and the, you know, wanting to do this cool route or go up this interesting mountain, that stuff doesn't matter compared to all the little moments with family and friends. That's what I take away from this.

COOPER: Yes. Well, Alec Luhn, I'm so glad you're OK. And, yes, I hope you're able to spend that time with your family and your friends and your wife, and I wish you the best.

[20:50:10]

LUHN: Yes. Thank you so much. It's great to have a second chance.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: It is great to have a second chance.

Up next, more breaking news in the battle over redistricting between Texas and California. I'll talk to James Carville.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:55:04]

COOPER: We have breaking news from Texas, where any moment now a final vote is expected in the state Senate on new congressional maps favoring Republicans that have been at the center of so much debate and protest. It passed the Texas legislature last night. You'll remember there was more than two weeks standoff with state Democrats who left the state in order to delay a vote on the plan. They're now vowing to take the fight to court.

Also tonight, in a counterpunch, California Democrats approved three bills to redraw that state's congressional maps in their favor, likely giving them five new U.S. House seats that could offset the ones they could lose in Texas. The California plan will require voter approval.

Joining me now is -- to discuss is longtime Democratic Strategist, James Carville. James, in this redistricting fight, some Democrats like California Governor Gavin Newsom have argued that Democrats have to do everything they can to fight back, including embracing some of Trump's tactics. Do you see any hypocrisy in that approach to the ends justify the means?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I do think ends justify the means. I mean, but it's like mustard gas. No one wins. At one side uses it, and the other side says, well, we don't have any choice. And then we -- were all using mustard gas.

But, you know, Anderson, I make a point and this is a -- I'm getting this a lot. This thing in Texas has some chance of backfiring because they're drawing these districts more or less predicated on the 2024 vote. And there's a good chance the 2026 vote is not going to follow the 24 model, but that's something that I'm hearing more and more of.

But I don't blame the California Democrats for saying, all right, you gassed us, we'll gas you. And it -- what it does is lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths, and it's a terrible thing for the political system. But I can't -- I agree with President Obama, it's all you can do.

COOPER: It's a sign of the times. We're coming up on the 20th --

CARVILLE: Yes, it is.

COOPER: -- anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, which is extraordinary to me. You know, you love that city. I love that city. You know, I worked there a lot. You have lived there.

I want to play a clip from CNN's upcoming original series, "New Orleans: Soul of a City," which looks at the devastation and the rebirth. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DOUG THORNTON, FORMER GENERAL MANAGER, SUPERDOME: I can't tell you how devastating it was. I mean, floodwaters up to the rooftop, water bubbling up from natural gas lines that were broken. I just couldn't believe that this was still a city.

And I thought, this is it. This may be the last time that I'm in New Orleans. I didn't know what was going to happen.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: I mean, I will never forget the six weeks I spent there during and after the storm. Did you ever worry that New Orleans might never fully recover?

CARVILLE: Well, of course, everybody does. I'll say this to you, Anderson, I mean this genuinely. New Orleans owes you back. But you have to remember one thing about Hurricane Katrina and the city in New Orleans. For the most part, Katrina was primarily an engineering failure. And I've checked with a lot of people before I came on CNN and said this tonight. If we had a similar event, God, I hope we don't, but it's always possible, in 2025, we would fare significantly better than we did in 2005. That, I'm very confident.

I fact-checked that thing to the nth degree. And to a person, knowledge of people, said our flood protection is significantly better today. And for that, we thank the taxpayers of the United States.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, there were -- I mean, the levies were breached. There were obviously flaws in the construction of them. There was the, you know, response from federal agencies.

CARVILLE: Yes.

COOPER: There was the, you know, bungling of local officials and the leadership failures of local officials before the storm and after.

CARVILLE: Yes.

COOPER: What do you think are some of the biggest lessons --

CARVILLE: Right.

COOPER: -- that the country learned from it?

CARVILLE: First, engineering is important to anything. And anybody that talks about climate mitigation doesn't talk about engineering. It's just missing something. That's the first and foremost.

The second lesson is no one looks good when you're underwater. I mean, you could be Franklin Roosevelt, and, you know, you have flooding of that nature. And the other thing that, like, drives me crazy is the evacuation, given everything that was happening and given how many people in the city of New Orleans at that time didn't have cars, still don't have automobiles, was actually fairly successful. And I think that lessons we can learn, boy, this is where an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.

COOPER: James Carville, it's good to see you. Thank you.

CARVILLE: Thank you, Anderson. Thank you.

COOPER: A reminder, tune in this weekend for Rebirth of the Superdome, the premiere episode of the CNN original series "New Orleans: Soul of a City." It airs this Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source starts now.