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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Father of Shooting Speaks Out: "A Coward" Took my Son; An 11- Year-Old Shooting Witness Speaks Out; Police: Shooter Had "Deranged Fascination" with Prior Shootings; Dr. Susan Monarez Ousted As CDC Director, Other Key Officials Resign; Russia Kills 21 In Second- Largest Air Assault Of Ukraine War; WH: Pres. Trump "Not Happy" But "Not Surprised" By Russia Attacks; Remembering Hurricane Katrina. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 28, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And officials say the Border Patrol agents identified the two after requesting the names of everyone working to fight the fire. Crews battling the Bear Gulch Fire say they are aware that border patrol agents are on the ground, but they claim those officers aren't interfering with efforts to contain the flames. The Bear Gulch Fire has been burning since July 6th. As of tonight, only 13 percent contained. But two of the people risking their lives to fight it have now been taken into ICE custody. Thank you very much for being with us. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:35]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, a father speaks out about his son murdered in Minneapolis and a child who survived the church shooting talks about what she saw and did when the gunman opened fire.

Also, less than a month after taking the job, the CDC's director is fired and four top officials quit in a clash with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. over vaccines, autism and the facts.

And later, as we come upon the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, a look back at some of the moments we should never forget.

Thanks for joining us

There's nothing good about an evening in which a 12-year-old Sophia is her name, is in critical condition with a gun-shot wound she suffered at school in a school's chapel praying to God and celebrating mass.

We begin tonight where it happened in Minneapolis and shortly before air time, we learned the identity of the second of her two classmates who were murdered yesterday morning at Annunciation Catholic School.

Harper Moyski was her name. She was ten years old. Her parents say she was a bright, joyful, deeply loved girl whose laughter, kindness and spirit touched everyone who knew her. She was the oldest of two girls and was adored. Her parents say, by her little sister. Also, killed in the shooting, which left 18 others wounded, was Fletcher Merkel. His father, Jesse, says he loved his family, his friends. He loved fishing, cooking and any sport that he was allowed to play. His murder, Harper's murder, the wounding of so many young kids happened very quickly.

Police were on the scene almost immediately, which was a blessing. Many of the wounded victims injuries, though serious, have not proven fatal. That, too, is a blessing. The now dead gunman, a 23-year-old, fired more than 100 shots, 116 rounds in all into the church.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE THOMPSON, ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY FOR MINNESOTA: More than anything, the shooter wanted to kill children, defenseless children. The shooter wanted to watch children suffer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Listening to that, hearing the accounts from kids of what they went through, hearing them describe kids covering other kids with their bodies to try to protect them, or wanting in those moments, for someone just to hold their hand, it's hard not to imagine both how much worse this could have been, but also how unimaginably terrible it still was and is. Today, near the scene at the center of a family of teddy bears is a big one for Fletcher Merkel. The note on it reads "I love you always and forever, mom. "Today, Fletcher's dad read a statement and we want to show that to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE MERKEL, FATHER OF FLETCHER MERKEL: Yesterday, a coward decided to take our eight-year-old son, Fletcher, away from us. Because of their actions, we will never be allowed to hold him, talk to him, play with him and watch him grow into the wonderful young man he was on the path to becoming. Fletcher loved his family, friends, fishing, cooking and any sport that he was allowed to play. While the hole in our hearts and lives will never be filled, I hope that in time our family can find healing.

I pray that the other victim's family can find some semblance of the same. I'm hopeful that all the wounded are able to make a full recovery and return home to their families and finally, all the people, and especially the children impacted by this horrific event, are able to recover mentally and find strength to live loving, happy and full lives.

Over the past day, I've heard many stories recounting the swift and heroic actions of children and adults alike from inside the church. Without these people and their selfless actions, this could have been a tragedy of many magnitudes more, for these people I am thankful.

Moving forward, we ask not for your sympathy, but your empathy as our family and the Annunciation community grieve and try to make sense of such a senseless act of violence.

Please remember, Fletcher, for the person he was and not the act that ended his life. Give your kids an extra hug and kiss today.

We love you, Fletcher. You will always be with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:13]

COOPER: We heard more stories today from kids who should never have we heard more stories today we heard more stories today from kids who should never have stories like these to tell yet are recounting with poise and courage that speaks volumes for what it was like to live through a school shooting. The girl you're about to hear from is named Chloe Francoual. She's 11 years old. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz talked with her with the permission of her dad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHLOE FRANCOUAL, STUDENT WHO WITNESSED SHOOTING: It doesn't feel like a dream anymore. Like it actually happened. People are hurt in the hospital right now people passed and the doctors couldn't do anything about it. And like, yes, so, it's real.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just days ago, 11-year-old Chloe Francoual posed for photos to mark the start of sixth grade at Annunciation Catholic School. Today, she's a survivor of the latest school shooting in America.

C. FRANCOUAL: When I got to school, we just like -- we grabbed our stuff from our lockers to, like, actually, like, do classes. We grabbed stuff for like, huh, what do we do? What do we do? Like, wait, what section are you in? What section are you in? Oh my gosh, you're in the same section as me. Oh, I'm so happy that we're going to be in a class together. And then we walked to church. First thing we did was that we -- our new Father, he's new. Like, this was his first day of mass. This was our first day of mass and this was his first day of mass at the school.

So, then he's like, I'm so excited that we're -- we get to do mass together, and then after he did a little speech, we sang a song after we sat down, our teacher -- our ELA teacher kind of did a, like a prayer for us. And then our Spanish teacher did a prayer for us. And in the middle of that, Spanish teacher's prayer we heard a gunshot.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): Hi, how are you?

PROKUPECZ (voice over): We met Chloe at her home with her parents. Her father, Vincent, telling CNN that Chloe wanted to share her experience.

C. FRANCOUAL: We didn't know it was a gunshot. It sounded like a firework. And everybody, like, looked out the window -- and then we heard another bang. And then everybody started covering their ears. And then we heard a bang, bang. The third one, everybody started ducking, and then the fourth one, everybody started going into action. And then Miss Noel was like -- she was like, what's going to happen? Like she's like, open eyes, like, oh, my gosh, what is happening? She ran in where the altar servers come out of, so, she ran into the altar servers place and then we heard the fourth bang. Everybody, like, everybody started, like, screaming and everybody started screaming and, like, getting hurt. This was when, like, it actually happened. And it started going really fast. After that, it was like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And then everybody like, was like running, ducking, hiding.

PROKUPECZ (voice over): The first mass of the new school year turned into chaos as a gunman opened fire outside.

C. FRANCOUAL: Some kids they hid under the pews the whole time. Some ran off to the pre-K room. That's what I did. And in the pre-K room, everybody started to help, especially the kids. And all the older buddies. We all started to help, like putting tables on the doors, locking the doors, putting all the stuff on the doors as much as we could. For some reason, nobody could stay quiet. We had to talk about it.

So, it was kind of struggling. We heard one more gunshot and then we heard some footsteps. We thought it was the man, but it was the police. We smelled smoke after they kicked open the door and they let us outside where we saw everybody hurt.

PROKUPECZ (voice over): Her father at times overcome listening to his child, described the scene.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): When you hear her describe some of this, it must be so hard for you.

VINCENT FRANCOUAL, FATHER OF STUDENT WHO WITNESSED SHOOTING: Yes. Its dreadful. Yes, it's just -- I mean, what she went through when she, you know, when she told her -- the counselor that she thought she was going to die. It's just way too much for me.

And, so, as I mentioned, she seems to rebounding much more than we do. It's just you see it on T.V. You see stuff on a movie, and, you know, I told my wife a year ago, I say, you know, so I'm from France, and sometimes we think, like to move back and all that. But they said, you know, you drop your kids at school and you don't know if you're going to get them back.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): What do you want your dad to know, Chloe?

[20:10:18]

C. FRANCOUAL: Well, I want him to know that everybody's safe. I want him to know that, the people who passed, they're all up in heaven, and they are always with us. Even if we can't see them and I want him to know that --

PROKUPECZ (voice over): The two children murdered were friends of Chloe's.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): What do you want people to know about your friends and the friends that passed? C. FRANCOUAL: I want them to know that, like these people who passed, like everybody knew their name. Like, there was an eight-year-old. He went to -- there was an eight-year-old who passed. He went to the Dominican Republic with all of us. And he also -- he also was like really sporty, I think. And he was really sweet, actually.

The girl, she was ten-years-old. She was in fifth grade. She was kind of everybody's friend. She was like everybody's friend. She was nice. Everybody knew her name. She was really kind to everybody and it was really like, heartbreaking when we found out that both of them passed because everybody, like, knew them. Everybody was like friends with them.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): How would you describe the things that you're feeling right now? I guess the only the level of trauma, I guess. So, I don't -- how would you, as an 11-year-old girl, having experienced this?

C. FRANCOUAL: I felt scared and I still feel scared. And it's just like I feel kind of like paranoid now, since, now I really like every time -- Every time I see, like, a window open, I want to close it because just I don't want it happening again. And what's scary to think about is that what if another person comes and I know it's not going to happen, but just -- there's a fear.

I feel like -- I really hope they don't do mass at the church anymore, or I really hope they don't do mass in general, because I think they know that people will have like, really bad flashbacks of it and they're like scared to like walk in and they're like looking around like shivering, like, shaking. And I think that they, the school knows that.

PROKUPECZ (voice over): Vincent knows recovery from this event will not be easy, but believes talking about it is helping.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): How proud of you?

V. FRANCOUAL: It's just, you know. This is therapeutic. You know, this is --

PROKUPECZ (on camera): Just remarkable.

V. FRANCOUAL: She's, you know, it's just therapy, and I'm proud of, like, beaming of proud, you know.

PROKUPECZ (voice over): Today, this 11-year-old has thoughts about guns in America.

C. FRANCOUAL: I would say to ban guns, but the problem about banning guns is that it's a problem because it will make people mad, because guns are for like hunting not for like hurting. It's for hunting animals for like getting food, but like, but so it will create a lot of hate if I say to ban guns. But I would say to like probably to like restrict everything that just happened.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): And this advice for other kids for the next school shooting.

C. FRANCOUAL: Run, hide or fight, because I don't want them to be like -- I don't want them to be in shock like everybody else. If they were closest to the window, I would say duck like, don't look at it, duck like, don't be in shock for two seconds go in action right away. But if you got hurt and you're alive, be so grateful.

Be grateful of everybody. be grateful that you get to see your parents again. Be grateful of all the teachers, of all the kids, of all the big buddies of everybody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Shimon joins us now. You know, it's incredible just hearing a child speaking about these things and hearing many children, as we have speak about these things over the last day or two. You've talked to a lot of kids over the years, survivors of school shootings. Are there commonalities that you notice?

[20:15:15]

PROKUPECZ: You know, Anderson, it's sad. We've done so many of these together. Yes, there is. They always remember, you know, this is probably the sixth or seventh survivor that I've talked to. You know, most of them were in Uvalde. And what these kids always it's just they are so remarkable in what they remember and how they react. It's just remarkable. But one of the things they always remember is the sounds, the sounds of gunshots and the smells, whether its gunfire in this case, for this, Chloe, it was the smoke. They believe the gunman had a smoke bomb, and that's what she remembered. And she remembered the sounds and talking about kids covering their ears. And it's exactly the same thing that I heard in Uvalde.

And the other thing her name is Chloe, one of the survivors in Uvalde, her name is Chloe, too. And she was the little girl that called 911 as the police were outside her door. She even in some ways looks like her. It reminded me so much of her and just the way she spoke and just -- the wherewithal to react in this way, and the fact that these little, little kids need to know what to do in these moments, is just, it's for me, it's just unforgiving to know that kids have to live like this and be prepared in this way.

And time and time again, when you speak to these survivors, this is what they tell you, how prepared they are. And obviously, it just, Anderson, it just shouldn't be but thank you to her and to her father, who spoke out. I'm so appreciative of that. And you know, I hope this truly helps them and, you know, and like I said to her, what would you say to anyone? Because, you know, this is going to happen again. And she had the right answer.

COOPER: Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much.

Coming up next, what our chief law enforcement analyst, John Miller, is learning from his sources and more on what authorities are finding out.

Also, in other news, one of Russia's worst strikes yet on Ukraine.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:49]

COOPER: We're learning more details tonight about how the shooting in Minneapolis played out. Authorities said today that the shooter had a deranged fascination. Their term with past mass shooters. He wrote their names on his weapons and his hate filled journals about making children suffer.

I'm joined now by CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller and former homeland security official, Donell Harvin.

So I understand, John, you have some new reporting about his visit actually to this church.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Police believe he went there. He believe he took a conversation with an employee. They believe that she, in that conversation, said I was thinking of getting back to the church getting back to the religion, that's why I'm here.

But she also writes, in some of the diaries that are being decoded about going there on a day for a mass, finding, you know, the doors unlocked, access. All of this is building towards an investigative theory that police are working on, that the shooter wanted to be inside that church with those weapons shooting in an open, free field of fire at those children in the service, except when the service started. They locked the doors on the outside and the shooter found herself on the street and improvised by shooting in the blind.

COOPER: You mean they lock the doors on the inside, from inside of the church?

MILLER: They lock the doors from the inside. So, you couldn't enter from the outside. This interfered with a part of her plan, which was he had -- she had put a wooden two by fours that that different pictures and images had been placed on and smoke bombs across the emergency exit on the idea that if you were shooting from the inside and people fled to the emergency exits, they'd be blocked and filled with smoke. So, this could have been much worse.

We also learned today from a senior law enforcement official who's been going through all of this and being briefed that this -- in one level or another has been in the planning stages for five years, the official said. You know, this started in the planning and the concept around COVID. That would be when she was 17 years old, just finishing high school after having gone through that school, up to the age I think of 14.

COOPER: Donell, you've worked extensively in threat assessment for homeland security. Based on this reporting, if the doors hadn't been locked how much worse do you think it could have been, as John mentioned?

DONELL HARVIN, FORMER D.C. CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE: Yes, I mean, this could have been a catastrophe of untold proportions, especially with the addition of the smoke grenade. We haven't actually seen that heretofore. That could have confused people. Once again, this was the very first day, if you heard the lead and this was the Father's first day. So, he is a leader? May have not known when to go. One of the students previously in an interview said that they had done drills in this for active shooters, but they hadn't done it in the church.

And so, fortunately, they locked the doors. But, Anderson, this could have been a whole lot worse.

COOPER: And John, so the acting U.S. attorney in Minnesota saying today the shooter was obsessed with the idea of killing children. What do we know more about what this person has been writing in their on -- in their screeds?

[20:25:09]

MILLER: Well, in the video, you can see in his -- the very clear handwriting she used writing on these weapons the names of the Sandy Hook shooter from Newtown, Connecticut, who exclusively targeted kindergartners and first graders. He wrote the name of the Norway shooter from, I think, 2012, who killed a large number of children in that camp.

COOPER: So many of these shooters, they study these other attacks, they study them for strategy and sort of -- it seems like they want to be part of this.

MILLER: Be competitive.

COOPER: Yes.

MILLER: They want to see if they can exceed the body count. One of her writings was more than ten, which would have exceeded the shooter in the Buffalo attack.

COOPER: Danielle, the police chief said that they have not been successful in talking to the shooter's mother yet. Does that surprise you?

HARVIN: Well, nothing's really surprises me nowadays, but what it tells me is that she's probably lawyered up. Or maybe, you know, she's scared, but, you know, most family members immediately after these type of events, they cooperate with law enforcement. They're just as shocked and stunned as the community is. We saw that with Sandy Hook. And so, I don't want to, you know, infer anything from that. Maybe they can't contact her. Maybe she's lawyered up. Maybe she was complicit in this and saw red flags and didn't report them because there is a mechanism in Minnesota to do that, but it is concerning.

COOPER: And apparently, John, one of the or at least at least a gun jammed during this. MILLER: So, he fired 116 rounds from that rifle. Think about that, which is a 30 round magazine, drop the magazine, reload a 30-round magazine, drop the magazine reload, a 30-round magazine, drop the magazine and go through part of that before transitioning to the shotgun, where he let three shotgun shells go and then the pistol had a jam, so he cleared that jam. And we don't know this yet, but it is highly likely because on the video he points to a pistol and said, that ones for me, that that is likely the gun less awkward than the long guns. He used to take his own life after clearing that malfunction.

COOPER: John Miller, appreciate it, Donell Harvin as well. Thank you.

Much more ahead tonight. Stunning developments at the CDC. The President's pick to run the agency has now been fired and four top officials, some of the most senior and experienced public servants at the CDC, have now quit in protest, a rebuke of Secretary Kennedy's leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: People are not aligned with the President's vision and the secretary's vision to make our country healthy again, then we will gladly show them the door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Also tonight, as we approach the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, we revisit what we saw then and how some of the survivors are now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:32:43]

COOPER: Well, the cheering is for four public servants who might otherwise go unheralded, but whose work and expertise, mostly out of the spotlight, kept Americans safer from deadly diseases for years. They were top officials, some of the most experienced experts in their field at the CDC in Atlanta. They quit after the White House fired their boss, CDC Director Susan Monarez.

She was the President's choice for the position, but found herself at odds with HHS Secretary Kennedy over, among other things, vaccine policy. Today, after claiming she had agreed to resign, which she denied, the President fired her, and those four officials quit in protest and were escorted out of the building.

They include the CDC's chief medical officer, the head of its vaccine and respiratory diseases program, the head of the National Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases, and the center's public health data chief. In his resignation letter posted on social media, one departing official writes, "I'm unable to serve in an environment that treats CDC as a tool to generate policies and materials that do not reflect scientific reality and are designed to hurt rather than to improve the public's health." He added, "Having worked in local and national political public health for years, I've never experienced such radical non-transparency, nor have I seen such unskilled manipulation of data to achieve a political end rather than the good of the American people."

As for Dr. Monarez, whose attorneys say she was targeted for refusing to, quote, "rubber stamp" unscientific reckless directives and fire dedicated health experts, here's how the White House justified her firing.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It was President Trump who was overwhelmingly re-elected on November 5th. This woman has never received a vote in her life and the President has the authority to fire those who are not aligned with his mission.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: According to sources, a top deputy of HHS Secretary Kennedy, Jim O'Neill, has been selected to serve as acting CDC director.

Joining me now is Dr. Mandy Cohen, who served as CDC director during the Biden administration. Dr. Cohen, appreciate you being with us. What is your reaction to the firing and these resignations of these long-serving, you know, public servants? How is this shakeup going to impact the CDC and public health and safety?

DR. MANDY COHEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: Well, it's great to be with you, Anderson, and I can't impart how big of a loss this is for the country, for our health security, to have lost such talent at the CDC.

[20:35:06]

These are folks who have served under multiple administrations, under -- no matter the party, at the federal level, at the state level. These are some of the most incredible experts in the world. And CDC has such an important mission to carry out to protect health, to detect diseases, to respond to them.

And now, look, everyone knows CDC was not a perfect agency. We had a lot of work to do that we've been doing, and CDC was on a path. It has been rebuilding trust. And to lose folks who were rebuilding and who are doing that hard work every day is really unfortunate to see. And the fact that the President fired his own choice for the person to lead the CDC after only three weeks is pretty shocking.

COOPER: It's amazing that the President's choice, Monarez was, as you said, only after three weeks. I mean, handpicked by the President, or at least, you know, agreed to by the President, in conflict so quickly with Secretary Kennedy about the direction of the CDC. How concerned are you about, you know, what the CDC is doing, the research that they're not doing, and what, you know, some of these people are saying is like manipulation of data?

COHEN: Look, I think these -- what has happened in the last 24 hours is part of a pattern. It is an attack on institutions, on experts, on the evidence and scientific integrity. And that is not just what's happened in the last 24 hours, but this certainly compounds it.

And I think it leaves our country more vulnerable. I think the CDC is one very important piece of our national security and our ability to keep folks safe and protected. And the fact that he fired the leader that Congress was able to confirm just a few weeks ago, and this came after the CDC was shot at just two weeks ago.

Like her tenure has been so short. It's had gun violence involved in it. I mean, this really is leaving the agency reeling and making it so difficult for them to carry out their mission.

COOPER: I want to play some of what Secretary Kennedy said earlier about the COVID pandemic and issues he had with the CDC.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ROBERT KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: They got the testing wrong, they got the social distancing, the masks, the school closures that did so much harm to the American people. We need to look at the priorities of the agency. If there's really a deeply, deeply embedded, I would say malaise at the agency. And we need strong leadership that will go in there and that will be able to execute on President Trump's broad ambitions for this agency.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: You were not CDC director during COVID, but what do you say to this notion of a malaise deeply embedded in the agency?

COHEN: Well, look, I took over at the CDC after the COVID crisis, knowing that the CDC had lessons to learn, certainly around our laboratory tests, around communication. And CDC had been on a really positive trajectory. And in fact, trust in the CDC had returned to pre-pandemic levels.

I've been able to work across the aisle, both at the state level and the federal level. And I really thought CDC was on a good trajectory. I think with this change, you know, what I'm hearing from folks still at the agency is that they're reeling, they're hurt.

It is -- but it's not just this 24 hours. It is, I think, the pattern that we're seeing of cutting funding, cutting programs, and then removing talent. And then, of course, what happened just two weeks ago in terms of the gun violence, all of that is making it really hard for folks to fulfill their mission.

COOPER: Yes.

COHEN: And it is creating the self-fulfilling prophecy that Secretary Kennedy says he wants to change, right? They need talent. They need funds. They need leadership. And I think they're acting the opposite.

COOPER: Dr. Mandy Cohen, I appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up next, so much for talk of peace, using drones and missiles, Russia carries out its second largest air assault on Ukraine since the war began, striking several residential buildings in Kyiv.

Also tonight, we mark 20 years since Hurricane Katrina. The anniversary is this week. We'll take you back to ground zero, Waveland, Mississippi, where the storm slammed ashore. And for days after, we tried to document the destruction left behind.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's from our room.

COOPER: It's devastating. I mean --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God. Oh, God.

COOPER: Actually, let's --

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:44:30]

COOPER: Russia unleashed more than 600 drone and missile strikes in Ukraine early this morning in its second largest air assault of the entire war. According to Ukrainian officials, at least 21 people were killed, including four children. This is what it looked like inside an apartment when a Russian strike hit the building.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

(BOMBING)

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: These people are huddled for safety in that apartment in Kyiv. The White House says President Trump is not surprised, there are words, by the strikes and he still wants the war to end. As for the Kremlin, a spokesperson said today they are still interested in peace talks.

[20:45:04]

Joining me now is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk, who served in senior positions under four presidents, including President Trump during his first term. So Brett, it's almost been two weeks since the Alaska summit with Putin. Does this say anything about the likelihood of any kind of talks or a peace deal?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think it does. I mean, Anderson, the summer now has been bookended. The largest attack of the war was in June, just this past June. And now the second largest heading out of the summer just last night. And there was some hope coming out of the summit two weeks ago that the issues for the peace deal are really being distilled. You need two issues, security guarantees for Ukraine. That's finally on the table. And secondly, land swaps along the line of control. Those are the elements of the peace deal.

And maybe you get the leaders together to talk about it. Now that's clearly not happening, Anderson. And I think more concerning here, I mean, winter is coming in Ukraine. And what Putin is doing here, it's going after that energy infrastructure. Ukrainians need to stay warm during the winter.

COOPER: That is what he's actually targeting, which, I mean, it's very telling if that's the case.

MCGURK: Since the spring, there have been 3,000 attacks against Ukraine's energy and civilian energy infrastructure. So it is clearly what he is doing. He wants to use the winter months not for diplomacy, but to break the will of the Ukrainian people. And that is where we're heading. And I think the strategy has to adapt to account for that.

COOPER: As of now, I mean, are there -- does Ukraine have enough access to weaponry, whether it's, you know, the U.S. is now having European countries buy U.S. weapons and then give it to Ukraine? Do they have enough?

MCGURK: I mean, look, they're knocking down a lot of this stuff. And they knocked down about 85 percent of projectiles fired by the Russians last night. Whether or not they can sustain that is a big question.

But also this energy question is a big one, Anderson. The United States led the last two winters a massive program to help resiliency with Ukraine's energy grid, to help them survive the winter. USAID actually had a huge program, about $700 million program, to lead that effort. That was canceled in February.

Norway now is putting in $100 million. You're looking at the Europeans are looking at more natural gas in. But this winter is going to be very difficult for Ukrainians. There was hope you could have diplomacy get to a ceasefire. That is now not where we're heading.

And I really think, I hope, the White House and the State Department that really gear up for what's coming this winter. It is going to be a difficult, difficult winter. And you've got to get through it if you want to have diplomacy on the back end. Because on the front end, the diplomacy is really clearly at a standstill. And Putin has made a mockery now of the summitry that happened two weeks ago.

COOPER: You think the chance for any kind of bilateral talks, trilateral talks, whatever it may be, that's just not on the table?

MCGURK: My understanding in the Europeans is that nobody sees it right now. Chancellor of Germany said today he does not see that meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy happening. It's just not happening. So, again, any time, diplomacy is always a failure until it succeeds. But as you're going through the process, you have to adapt. Right now, I think you have to adapt. Number one, get the weaponry into Ukraine through NATO, that defensive systems that you just mentioned. Number two, help with that energy resiliency so they can get through the winter.

And number three, we've talked about this a number of times, Anderson. One of the few bipartisan issues on the Hill is this Graham Blumenthal bill for significant sanctions against Russia. I think let that pass.

The President can then say to Putin, more out of sorrow than anger, hey, look, I got this. This is coming to me bipartisan.

COOPER: Yes.

MCGURK: I'm going to have to do some more sanctions here. I think without that, Putin thinks he has free reign. And I think this is going to be a very, very difficult winter. So the next few weeks, I think you've got to adjust the strategy.

You might have hoped for the best. You hope for the best, plan for the worst. We're now might be looking at the worst case --

COOPER: Yes.

MCGURK: -- Putin is escalating. And he's looking to break the will of Ukrainians during the winter. And we have to account for that and adapt.

COOPER: Yes.

Brett McGurk, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Now, a sign of the times. It concerns Ashli Babbitt, who was shot and killed during the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Babbitt was part of the mob trying to break into a part of the building called the Speaker's Lobby, where then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her security detail had been just moments before.

She had been an Air Force -- or she was an Air Force veteran. And tonight we learned the service will now provide her with full military funeral honors. A senior Air Force official invited her family to the Pentagon so he can personally offer his condolences.

Next, we remember Hurricane Katrina and the lives lost in Waveland, Mississippi, 20 years ago this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: And they've been inside for 48 hours now. So when the rescue workers break inside the home and open up the windows, the smell, it's overwhelming. It just goes down the block.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:54:53]

COOPER: It was 20 years ago this week the Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans and the Gulf region. Particularly hard hit was Waveland, Mississippi, which suffered catastrophic winds and storm surge of nearly 30 feet.

[20:55:04]

I broadcast for several days there and will never forget what I saw. We wanted to remember what happened, the heroism and the failures, and what's happened to some of the people we met 20 years ago in those difficult days after the storm.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: We are grateful for the military assets that are being brought to bear. I want to thank Senator Frist and Senator Reid for their extraordinary efforts, Anderson. Tonight, I don't know if you've heard, maybe you all have announced it, but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross --

COOPER: Excuse me, Senator.

LANDRIEU: -- up and operating.

COOPER: Excuse me, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that because for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset and very angry and very frustrated.

And when they hear politicians, you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now.

COOPER (voice-over): Right after Katrina struck, before going to New Orleans, I spent several days in Mississippi reporting from Waveland.

COOPER: There were houses on -- all along here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's now (INAUDIBLE).

COOPER (voice-over): The town took a direct hit from the storm. Many of the residents who survived lost everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's from our room. It's from our room.

COOPER: It's devastating. I mean --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh God, oh God.

COOPER: Actually, let's --

COOPER (voice-over): Waveland looked like it had been wiped off the map. I went out with a search and rescue team from Virginia who were looking for the dead. At this house, a neighbor said four members of a family had drowned inside.

COOPER: And they've been inside for 48 hours now. So when the rescue workers break inside the home and open up the windows, the smell, it's overwhelming. It just goes down the block.

COOPER (voice-over): Christina and Edgar Bane lived here with their two teenage sons, Edgar Jr. and Carl. The two boys were handicapped, and so the family decided not to evacuate. When the floodwaters rushed in, all four drowned in their home. A month after their bodies were recovered, I met Edgar and Christina's daughters, Laura and Serena Bane.

LAURA BANE, PARENTS AND BROTHERS DIED IN HURRICANE KATRINA: And this was the kitchen. This is where they had died.

COOPER (voice-over): They are the only remaining members of the family and had to identify the bodies of their parents and brothers.

COOPER: What's going to happen tomorrow?

BANE: We don't know. We're just basically living day by day.

COOPER (voice-over): Ten years later, we return to Waveland.

COOPER: This is the house where Edgar and Christina Bane lived and died with their two teenage sons. The house itself has been rebuilt. It's been refurbished. There's another family living here now. Ten years ago, 95 percent of the homes in Waveland were damaged in Hurricane Katrina.

There's little sign of that destruction. But you talk to anybody who lived through it, and they all say the same thing. They will never forget what happened here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's Tom's Lincoln. Yes.

BANE: That's Edgar and that's Carl. And that's my dad at a wrestling match.

COOPER: Do you think much about Katrina?

BANE: All the time.

COOPER: All the time?

BANE All the time.

COOPER: Even though it's been 10 years, you think about it all the time?

BANE: All the time.

COOPER (voice-over): When we visited, Laura Bane was 35, living not far from the house where her parents and brothers died. She has her own family now, but for her, the storm has never really stopped.

BANE: It's sad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is all the (INAUDIBLE).

BANE: And right here, you see how the blinds are? After the water receded down, my dad, the way my dad landed was as if he was standing up. And he was like looking out the kitchen window because his elbows was like this on the --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The counter?

BANE: -- the counter.

COOPER: Did you ever figure out what exactly happened to your parents and brothers?

BANE: No. My mom knew how to swim. She was a good, good swimmer. The only thing I can think of, my mom watched my dad and my brothers drown. And I believe that she truly drowned it intentionally with them.

COOPER: She didn't want to leave them?

BANE: Right. Of course not.

COOPER (voice-over): The Bane sisters hope to move away from Waveland one day, move far away from the memories of what happened here.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: Laura and her sister Serena still live near Waveland. They both started their own families. Laura has four kids and a grandson. Serena also has four kids and a granddaughter with another grandchild on the way.

Laura says she tells people to cherish their parents, that her kids understand the importance of family. We're all we have, she says.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.