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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Sources: Trump Weighs Strikes Targeting Cartels Inside Venezuela; U.S. Lost Jobs For First Time In Years, Hiring Stalls, Unemployment Up; Elon Musk Could Become World's First Trillionaire; NY Times: Trump Greenlit 2019 Failed SEAL Team 6 Mission Into North Korea; Rep. Auchincloss Warns Digital Dopamine Is Consuming America; Italian Teen Carlo Acutis Will Become 1st Millennial Saint. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 05, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE SOUTHERLAND, YOUTUBER, @SOUTHERNFRUGALMOMMA: We are real people and we need to help each other get through these hard times because they're not seeing us on a personal level, but we can see each other on a personal level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELIE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So we also visited the local food bank and they told us that in the last six months they've seen more and more two income families coming in who've been spending down their savings and they just can't make ends meet anymore. Another thing they hear over and over again is, oh this is my second job, like, that's normal, like, I have a second job to buy groceries or get gas money and they worry who's watching the kids.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It's unbelievable. Elie, thank you so much for such a powerful report. And thanks so much to all of you. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:44]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, a month after firing the bearer of bad unemployment numbers, the White House gets another disappointing batch with the President is saying about including a new claim that what he calls tremendous job growth could be two years away.
Also tonight, after his bruising on Capitol Hill yesterday, new reporting that health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. plans to announce a potential link between Tylenol use in pregnancy and Autism. Dr. Sanjay Gupta goes in depth on what scientific studies actually show.
And later, a riveting, account of a SEAL Team Six covert operation to spy on Kim Jong-un. Why and how it reportedly went wrong.
Good evening, thanks for joining us, a lot to get to ahead. First, some breaking news that we have just been getting in about the possibility of military action against Venezuela that goes beyond what you're seeing here. This week's airstrike on what the administration said was Venezuelan drug smuggling boat.
The country and its President, Nicolas Maduro, has long been a thorn in the side of the country and the President. The government has labeled Maduro a narco-terrorist and has set a $50 million bounty for his arrest.
Now, CNN has learned from multiple sources what more the administration is planning. CNN Kristen Holmes joins us now with that. So, what have you learned?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we're told that everything is on the table when it comes to Venezuela, and that includes potentially targeting sites or cartels inside the country of Venezuela. That is one of a multitude of options that President Trump is weighing right now as they continue this maximum pressure campaign.
Now, one of the goals of this, obviously, is to weaken Maduro. When we talked to several sources, there is a belief that this will not only put pressure on Maduro to potentially leave his post, but also on the people around him who might be benefiting from this illegal behavior, that they would then put the pressure on Maduro themselves.
Now, President Trump was specifically asked about whether or not he supported a regime change, and he quickly changed the subject. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I can only say that billions of dollars of drugs are pouring into our country from Venezuela. It comes through Canada and it comes through Mexico. But a lot of its coming through Venezuela. Venezuela has been a very bad actor, and we understand that and when you look at that boat, you look at that -- you see the bags of whatever it is those bags were, you know, those bags represent hundreds of thousands of dead people in the United States. That's what they represent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So, they have clearly linked Maduro to their larger anti- narcotics mission that they have here. It is going on right now. One thing to note, they also put ships and heavy military power in the Caribbean. I was told by a number of White House officials that this was meant to be a signal or a sign to Maduro -- all part of this maximum pressure campaign.
One thing that has been pointed out to me by a number of people is that we are ramping up this pressure, clearly, we're talking about military action. Again President Trump weighing hitting cartels within Venezuela, within the country. But Venezuela is not the top drug distributor. When you look at the countries -- where the drugs are actually coming from. So, just an interesting part of all of this, as were seeing them really ramp up the military pressure here.
COOPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks very much on this breaking news, late breaking.
Now, we turn to tonight's other big story over the month since the President fired the head of the nonpartisan agency responsible for economic data. The question was, what happens when the next numbers come out? Well, today they did and they were dramatically lower than economists expected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUREN SIMONETTI, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK CORRESPONDENT: Only 22,000 jobs added in the month of August, that was much less than the expectation of 75,000, guys. The July number was revised. I will get to revisions in a moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And so will we, because they are an important part of how the administration is trying to refocus attention from what were, in the words of a traditionally administration friendly Fox analyst, pretty brutal. A short time later, across several networks, the administration was trying to put a better face on the news, which also included the jobless rate ticking up to 4.3 percent, historically low, but the highest since 2021. And the troubling news extended further. Here's the chief economist from the accounting giant, KPMG.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANE SWONK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, KPMG: The other thing that's really interesting is there's something that usually only happens after were in a recession, and that's the share of people on long-term unemployed as a share of the total labor force rises, it's at this elevated level that we only seen actually in recessions, not before recessions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:20]
COOPER: So, in short, not a banner day for the job market. Now, here's the administration, here's how they're framing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOX HOST: Would you admit to being just a little disappointed by this weakening job market?
LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER, SECRETARY OF LABOR: Well, 22,000 jobs underperformed just a bit, but it's still in the positive. Almost a half a million jobs have been created since the President took office. It's going to take some time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Still in the positive, she pointed out. That was the Labor Secretary. Now, here's the President's top economic adviser, Kevin Hassett, pointing to those revisions that we mentioned.
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KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: This jobs number was certainly a little bit of a disappointment right now. But what are the things -- there was a Goldman Sachs study that came out yesterday that showed that because the BLS hasn't really done a good job on its seasonal adjustment in august, that they tend to revise this number up by almost 70,000 jobs would give you the revised number a month later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, there are two problems with that. The first is that even if this month's 22,000 jobs is revised upward by 700,000, as Kevin Hassett said, that still leaves the hiring number far short of the 150,000 or, excuse me, 70,000, the far shorter than the 150,000 that economists say is needed just to keep up with population growth.
The second problem is that the revisions in the last two months of disappointing numbers came out today, and they were not reassuring. July's were up only slightly from 73,000 to 79,000, and June's were revised sharply downward from 14,000 added to 13,000 jobs lost.
Now, the President late today blamed what he said were excessively high interest rates. And I want to be very fair about this, some economists agree with his assessment. He also pinned some hope on future upward revisions. But in a photo op approaching an hour-and-a- half today, he mainly tried to focus instead on tax cuts, domestic and foreign investment and tariffs, all of which he suggested would fuel economic growth.
Now, that said, he also said that this growth and the jobs that it brings might not fully materialize until 2027.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I heard and, you know, we were in a very downward path with Biden. And I heard that the most we could do was a one percent GDP. And now I'm hearing 3.2 percent and 3.5 percent, and all. And our big year won't be really next year. I think it will be the year after, because when these plants start opening up, it takes a period of time to build them, we're going to have tremendous job growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: But perhaps not next month or even next year, according to the President. He also said that lower prices at the pump would help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you look at energy, I think you're going to be at $2.00 a gallon with cars very shortly, $2.00. It was $4.00, $5.00 under the Democrats. That's a huge -- that's like a massive tax cut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Okay, going to be, he said, which I just got to point out is different from what he had been saying for months, namely, that it already is, listen.
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TRUMP: Gasoline just hit $1.99 today in five states, $1.99. Isn't that a nice sound? You just hit in five states $ 1.99, $1.98.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that was in July and it was not even close to being true then. Not then when zero states had sub $2.00 gas and the national average was $3.18 a gallon according to AAA, and not now when its $3.20 a gallon nationally. As for the man the President wants in charge of the economic numbers to replace the woman that he fired. His name is E.J. Antoni. And CNN's KFILE just uncovered a since deleted Twitter account he operated, which featured sexually degrading attacks on Kamala Harris derogatory remarks about gay people, conspiracy theories and crude insults aimed at critics of President Donald Trump.
Here's a tweet he reposted titled "Advice for Women: How to Land a Great Guy." Among the suggestions, "Be in shape and don't be annoying. This one he reposted numerous times about Vice-President Harris and her campaign, quoting again, "You can't run a race on your knees." Again, that's from a Twitter account that belonged to the President's choice to run a major government agency. Keeping it classy.
Oh, and separately, the President today announced that next year's G20 economic summit will be held at his Doral Country Club in Miami.
Joining me now, Republican strategist and senior CNN senior political commentator David Urban. We're happy to have him back. "New York Times" trade and international economics reporter Anna Swanson and Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator, Paul Begala.
Anna, let me start with you. Just for folks who don't follow economic numbers so closely, can you just put these numbers in context? What is the biggest concern with them?
ANNA SWANSON, TRADE AND INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Sure, so, it was unfortunately a pretty bleak report. It showed that the sluggish numbers that we saw last month really weren't a fluke. They seemed to be evidence that the economy is really significantly downshifting. And we did have some revisions, including to June, which showed that there was a monthly drop in jobs. And that's actually the first monthly drop that we've seen since the pandemic.
So, it's pretty significant and I do think it is evidence that were seeing the effect of President Trump's economic policies on the economy, the effect of tariffs on businesses, the effect of immigration raids, reducing the labor supply. Also, the effect of shrinking the government, reducing jobs in that sector as well.
COOPER: David Urban, do you think that's what we're seeing?
[20:10:36] DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, Anderson, far be it for me to opine on macroeconomic issues. Let me just tell you, I do know that the jobs report was disappointing, but its only one part of the overall snapshot on the economy. I would say, also, look at GDP in Q2, GDP increased to three percent. What does that mean?
For folks who really don't track that, GDP is a measure of what is produced here in America, you know, goods and services. So there were three percent more growth of goods and services in America during Q2.
Also, year-to-date, the stock market, the S&P is up about 10 percent. So, this one bad snapshot of in this quarter of a bad jobs report, I think is at odds with the other reports of an otherwise growing, somewhat growing economy.
COOPER: Paul, I mean, the President tried to blame the job numbers on high interest rates and what he called "different elements not being included in the jobs data." Do you think that's going to work?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, no, as we say in Texas, that dog don't hunt. Urban makes a good point, most people don't live in the macro economy, they live in the macaroni and cheese economy, and let me tell you macaroni and cheese economy under Trump stinks. It stinks.
Hamburger alone, hamburger. I raise four boys. I bought tons of hamburger in my life $6.25 a pound it is about $5.50 when he took office, $6.25 is the highest in the history of hamburger. So, you think, well, okay, maybe well become vegetarians.
Oh, vegetable prices are up 40 percent at the wholesale level because of Mr. Trump's tariffs and his deportations. He has caused jobs to go down and costs to go up. By the way, electricity. That's a huge issue. That's up 10 percent nationwide and a lot more in some places because of Mr. Trump's war on renewables. By the way, we've already lost 64,000 jobs in wind and solar because he's been canceling projects that are good projects, producing jobs and producing energy, cheap energy.
So, housing, health care, food, energy, they're all going up while jobs are going down. This is disastrous politically for the Republicans.
COOPER: David, I mean, the President was a more measured in his reaction to today's numbers. I mean, he -- frankly, he doesn't have anyone left to accuse him of rigging the data right now, given he fired the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner after last month's report. Is that why he was sort of more muted?
URBAN: Look, you know, I think BLS numbers are always you know, Anderson, I've been on your show many times with Paul and others. You know, they go up, they go down, they revised, you know, there are big numbers and they get revised two months later. I can't really tell what's heads or tails on that. And so, Paul is correct though, real Americans don't pay attention to is the number at the pump, what they're looking at, the grocery cart when they go to check out, and were going to have a big test of that.
We're coming up here in the midterms, in the fall of '26, and that's going to be the first really big test for this administration. And if the numbers, if the numbers that Paul talking about the macaroni and cheese numbers don't get better, Republicans are going to be in for, you know, for a loss at the ballot box because people reflect that when they go to vote. They are angry when the economy is bad and they're happy when the economy is good. So, the macroeconomics may not care, but as Paul points out, the macaroni and cheese economics will matter.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, two of the industries that the President champions in many of his speeches construction, manufacturing, they lost jobs in this latest report. David makes the point, you know, things go up and down. But do you have a sense of why President Trump's tariffs, which are intended to help domestic manufacturing build new factories, are not boosting these industries?
SWANSON: Yes, it's kind of an awkward fact for the President. Manufacturing in this most recent report lost 12,000 jobs, it's a trend we've seen for several months now. It's really health care that was propping up the job numbers, hospitality and restaurants. And I think manufacturing, like a lot of other trade, exposed sectors, is dealing with a lot of uncertainty from tariff policies.
So, you know, companies are just not certain which way things are going to go for them. They're waiting on hiring. They might be waiting on big purchases like machinery. So, there just is a lot of uncertainty for manufacturers, not much evidence yet in this jobs report of this manufacturing expansion that the President wants to see.
COOPER: Paul, Democrats have been very critical, obviously, the Big Beautiful Spending Bill. Do you think people have begun to see what Democrats say would be the negative impacts of that?
[20:15:05]
BEGALA: I think so, I think Democrats need to keep pushing that, and they need to explain to people. By the way, they need to call for repealing Mr. Trumps tariffs, right. Tariffs are taxes, taxes are paid by American citizens. That's why your stuff is costing more. And this Big, Beautiful Bill is cutting health care especially, but also various other things that people need.
We're going to see an example, David's right, we've got off year elections in New Jersey and Virginia. So, I live in Virginia now, and the Democrat running Abigail Spanberger, Congresswoman, is running against Trump's layoffs because a lot of Virginians serve their country, and a lot of Virginians got laid off. And the Republican nominee, the incumbent lieutenant governor, she seems -- she came on CNN and she seemed to poo-poo and said it wasn't really an important issue.
So, Spanberger is running an ad attacking that. Meanwhile, the Republican's running an ad, the same thing, attacking transgender Americans. We'll see which one works. I'm betting heavily, by the way, on the cost of living economic argument, winning against the kind of tired same old retread attacking transgender Americans.
COOPER: David, I mean, do you buy this Democratic argument that, you know, people are going to start to see results, negative results from the spending bill, and that's going to negatively impact Republicans?
URBAN: Yes, look, Anderson, it is all yet to be written. What people are saying right now, I do know, is that if you're in the service industry, if you work as a waiter, waitress, bartender, if you work at a barber shop, a salon, if you get any of your income from tips, right, that's all now, tax free money. And that is retroactive to the beginning of the year. When I talk to people, real people in real America, and asked them if they know that half of them don't know it, they're surprised when I tell them that, and they're even more surprised when I tell them that, guess what? Not one Democrat voted for it. Not one Democrat helped you get that more money in your pockets.
If Republicans continue to message that Trump is great at getting these small coalitions, two, three, four percent here, five percent there. I think, you know, people laugh at this UFC on the lawn, coming up, all these are three, four, five percent and that's how the guy wins. He builds these coalitions that are incredibly unique and diverse and Democrats, you know, can't whistle past the graveyard in some of this stuff.
COOPER: David Urban, Anna Swanson, appreciate it, Paul Begala as well.
Coming up next, that new reporting about R.F. Kennedy Jr.'s plans to announce a potential link between Tylenol use in pregnancy and autism. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been looking the medical reports on this, he joins us.
Also tonight, how's this for a pay bump? Tesla's board weighing a compensation package that could make Elon Musk the world's first trillionaire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBYN DENHOLM, TESLA, CHAIR: The plan is super ambitious and that is what motivates Elon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:22:15]
COOPER: A day after his grilling on Capitol Hill, mainly over vaccines and wholesale job cuts at the CDC, there's something to focus attention elsewhere. New reporting in a "Wall Street Journal" story headlined RFK, Jr., HHS to link autism to Tylenol use in pregnancy and Folate deficiencies, quoting now, "The report expected this month from the Department of Health and Human Services, is likely to suggest as being among the potential causes of autism, low levels of folate, an important vitamin and Tylenol taken during pregnancy, people familiar with the matter said."
Now, the piece goes on to note that this report is not in its final form and not the product of any new research. Quoting again, "Kennedy's report is expected to be a review of existing research, people familiar with the matter said. Scientists say conducting rigorous research on the causes of autism can take years."
"The Journal" correspondents added, "The report is expected to suggest other potential causes of autism and suggest further study, people familiar with the matter said." We want to get some perspective now from CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So Sanjay, what do we know about Tylenol and pregnancy and is there a proven direct link to autism?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There's not a proven causal link to autism, but at the same time, this is not coming totally out of the blue, Anderson. I mean, there have been conversations about potential links between Tylenol or acetaminophen, same thing, and all sorts of neurodevelopmental things, including ADHD and autism going back ten years or so, we've been reporting on it.
The thing is, those are really hard studies to do because you imagine you have a child born with autism, and then you go -- I mean, who's diagnosed with autism, you go back and you ask, mom, hey, did you use Tylenol during pregnancy? When did you use it? How much did you use it? Typically, don't remember that sort of thing. So, hard study to do.
And also, Tylenol is really ubiquitous, there's this thing called the paradox of ubiquity. When something is more common, it's actually harder to study in some ways because there's so many things that could be related to that. Why did you take Tylenol? Was it the fever? Maybe the fever is actually the culprit. You get the idea.
I will say in 2019, there was a study that we reported on that specifically decided to look at cord blood, umbilical cord blood, and measure how much acetaminophen was in the cord blood, and then use that to see if there was some sort of link or association with autism. And they did find, Anderson, that the highest levels of acetaminophen in that umbilical cord blood was associated with higher rates of subsequent autism.
So, this is sort of what's I think fueled a lot of these studies. In August of this year, just a month ago, there was a huge meta-analysis of 46 different studies and in 27 of those studies, again, they found an association between acetaminophen use during pregnancy and subsequent diagnosis of autism.
But I keep using this word association, which, you know, you're very familiar with. That is not cause and effect. In fact, one of the researchers said, look, it's like in the summertime more people eat ice cream and in hot weather there's more violent crime, both those things happen. There's no cause and effect, but they would be considered to be associated in some ways. That's kind of like what we're talking about here as well, Anderson.
[20:25:27]
COOPER: So, I mean, if you are a pregnant woman or going to be. How concerned should you be should you take Tylenol?
GUPTA: You know, again, this is something that obstetricians have been thinking about for a long time, more than a decade. Because of these potential, potential links. And ACOG, which is the American College Of Obstetrics and Gynecology, they released a statement today in response to this. And they said acetaminophen has long been established as a safe pain reliever for pregnant women during pregnancy: "There is no clear evidence that proves a direct relationship between prudent use of acetaminophen during pregnancy and fetal developmental issues, neurodevelopmental disorders, in particular, are multifactorial and very difficult to associate with the singular cause."
I think what they've always said is that, first of all, a fever is a problem during pregnancy. You do want to treat a fever that could be more problematic. And also, if you're using Tylenol to use the lowest dose for the shortest amount of time, I think where this is headed, Anderson, is this idea that there are probably autism genes. And so, there are children who are born with a propensity for autism and there may be some environmental triggers sort of pushing them over the edge. And that's where the research and the Tylenol sort of came from but at this point, it is nothing more than association.
COOPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much, appreciate it.
So, the world's richest man could soon become the world's first trillionaire. That's with a "T" that's Elon Musk with President Trump back in the Halcyon days when he was basking in the glow of the President's admiration and turned the south lawn of the White House into a Tesla showroom. That was a long time ago, it seems.
We learned today that Musk could get a pay package from Tesla worth up to $900 billion. Now, that offer from the company's board would be the biggest pay package in corporate history and they say it's that high in order to incentivize Elon Musk to focus his attention and talents on Tesla. Here's CNN's Hadas Gold with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: I think, obviously, there should be compensation for -- if there's something incredible is done, that compensation should match that something incredible was done.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It seems the Tesla board took that to heart, laying out an ambitious list of targets Elon Musk would need to hit to get the biggest pay package in corporate history. Made up of 423.7 million Tesla shares worth around $900 Billion if Tesla hits those targets. Those include increasing Tesla's overall valuation eightfold to $8.5 trillion, deliver 20 million Teslas, one million autonomous robotaxis, one million autonomous Optimus robots, and stay at Tesla for at least seven-and-a-half years.
Under the plan, Musk would also end up owning just over a quarter of Tesla voting shares. Musk has previously made it clear that he views his pay package as a reflection of his leadership at Tesla.
MUSK: It's not a money thing. It's a reasonable control thing over the future of the company, especially if we're building millions, potentially billions of humanoid robots. I can't be sitting there and wanting to get tossed out by -- for political reasons, by activists.
GOLD: Tesla has suffered slumping sales and a volatile stock price from increased competition and consumer backlash to Elon Musk's work with President Donald Trump's administration.
TRUMP: You can't be penalized for being a patriot, and he's a great patriot, and he's also done an incredible job with Tesla.
GOLD: And their eventual falling out. Notably, Tesla's plan does not place any restrictions on outside activities, including politics. Musk had previously announced plans to start a new political party. Tesla noted in its filing that during negotiations, Musk threatened to leave the company and pursue other interests that may afford him greater influence.
DENHOLM: The plan is super ambitious and that that is what motivates Elon. So, in coming up with a plan that will incent motivate, have his time, focus and attention on Tesla we needed to come up with a plan that was super ambitious.
GOLD: Tesla shareholders will get a chance to have their say and vote on the plan on November 6th.
Hadas Gold, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, our chief data analyst, Harry Enten is with me to help understand some of the numbers at play here, because they are kind of mind boggling. First of all, how is the company performing?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, this is going to be the whole key question. In order to get to the trillion-dollar payday, he's going to really have to turn Tesla around. Because if you look at the last quarter, their net profits were down considerably from where they were a year ago.
What are we talking about? We're talking about a drop of 16 percent. And more than that, yes, there is increased competition in the electric car space, but it's also the fact that Elon Musk himself became an unpopular guy by being associated with Donald Trump and that made Tesla an unpopular company. I mean, the net favorable rating of Tesla, look at that -20 points, that's horrible. So, it's going to take a lot of effort by Elon Musk and Tesla as well to sort of turn the company around.
[20:30:25]
COOPER: I mean, $1 trillion, it's a mind-boggling sum. How does it -- I mean, what does it compare to? ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, we can make two comparisons in the modern day, right? We can compare it to the median American, right, in terms of their net worth. And what we're looking at is, get this, to get to $1 trillion, that is 8 million, 8 million times more than the median U.S. adult. That's 8 million with an M.
And it's four times as much as Jeff Bezos, who, of course, is a very rich man. So the bottom line is getting to $1 trillion, that, to me, would be an insane number.
COOPER: And how does it compare in history?
ENTEN: Yes, how does it compare in history? This is one of my favorite slides, right? I mean, who is the richest man in history? I mean, it was Rockefeller, right? But Rockefeller's worth, even taking into account inflation by GDP, look at that, was $650 billion, let it speak.
And Andrew Carnegie, or Carnegie, as we might say in New York City, $375 billion. So --
COOPER: Is that Carnegie or?
ENTEN: Carnegie, if we're watching the American experience.
COOPER: OK.
ENTEN: Carnegie --
COOPER: OK.
ENTEN: -- if we're in New York and we want to get a nice Jewish deli.
COOPER: All right. Harry Enten, thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, a remarkable new report on a SEAL Team 6 operation against North Korea. Really, no one publicly knew about this, how it went wrong, and how the President answered this question about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you say if the administration has engaged with North Korea on that incident since it happened recently?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:18]
COOPER: A fascinating investigative report out today by the New York Times reads like a Hollywood action movie. The headline, How a Top Secret SEAL Team 6 Mission Into North Korea Fell Apart. Now, this operation, according to The Times, was -- took place ahead of this 2019 summit between President Trump and Kim Jong-un.
And it had one major objective, to plant a high-tech electronic device on North Korean soil and try to intercept Kim Jong-un's communications. It was incredibly risky. The stakes were very high considering how volatile the regime in North Korea is and their nuclear capabilities.
Things definitely did not go as planned. Unarmed North Koreans were killed and the mission has never been reported on until now. According to the New York Times, President Trump approved the training for the operation and gave approval to undertake it. Late today, he was asked about it in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's some new reporting on North Korea and this Navy SEAL incident in 2019. Can you say if the administration has engaged with North Korea on that incident since it happened recently?
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then can you share some --
TRUMP: I don't know anything about it. No. I'd have to -- I could look, but I know nothing about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you confirm that it happened?
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: I'm joined now by one of the reporters on the byline, David Philipps, national correspondent for the New York Times. David, incredible reporting on this. Can you just walk us through the overall step-by-step of the mission, how it went wrong? Because obviously the planning was intricate and involving a huge submarine that got very close in North Korean waters to shore, and then actually sending SEALs onto the land.
DAVID PHILIPPS, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, my colleague, Matthew Cole, and I uncovered this. Basically, the plan was to send a massive nuclear-powered submarine about two football fields long right up to the North Korean coast, and then release two mini- subs, and those are about the size of like a killer whale, and those would go almost to the shore.
There, they released a small team of Navy SEALs who would swim to the shore and plant this electronic listening device. Now, the SEALs expected to get in and out unseen, and that was critical because if they got caught, that could spark a hostage situation or escalating tensions with, like you said, a nuclear-powered or nuclear-armed adversary.
So they expected to get in and out unseen, but what they didn't notice is as they were on their way to the shore, a very small fishing boat or open-hulled boat came into the area. The SEALs at the shore only noticed when they were on land almost that this boat was there.
The boat seemed to be right on top of where they had parked their mini-subs, and they were really in a tight spot at that point. Because if these boats discovered their subs and called in authorities, they might not get out. And so the SEALs, who had not yet planted the device, made a quick decision to shoot everybody on the boat, and that's what they did.
Our sources say it was two or three people. Now, the SEALs then swam to the boat to make sure everyone was dead, and there they found that these weren't security forces. They didn't find any guns or uniforms to suggest that.
What they found is that these were probably just locals out fishing, trying to get something to eat, who'd been caught up in this, you know, really top-secret mission that they knew nothing about.
COOPER: They disposed of the bodies to make -- they're actually puncturing their lungs to make sure that they didn't float to the top so that they sank. They were able to get out -- the SEALs were able to get out safely, and then, according to your reporting, North Korean military assets kind of swarmed the area soon after they left, but they got away safely. Any -- did the North Korean government ever say anything about this?
[20:40:00]
PHILIPPS: The North Korean government has never said anything that we can find publicly or through diplomatic channels that we know of. Now, they did seem to know that something had happened there, because, as you said, there was an increase in military activity right there, right after this operation.
But did they know that these people had been killed by SEALs, or what the SEALs were there to do? That's not clear to us. And I'm not sure that's clear to the U.S. government.
COOPER: Yes, you pointed out the bullets were untraceable, the guns were untraceable, apparently. They can figure out -- nobody allegedly could figure out where their origin would be, or at least that was the plan.
It's -- one of the details just struck me, and it just -- it seems like a nightmare. I mean, it shows the skill of the SEALs and the bravery. They were underwater in these mini-subs that were actually filled with very cold water, water at about 40 degrees, and they had to stay in these subs that were full of very cold water for, like, two hours on their way to the site.
PHILIPPS: Right. It's cold, it's dark, you're cramped together, you're breathing through, you know, a scuba mouthpiece, just like you would be if you were swimming, and you're surrounded by water. There's no dry in there. And that's part of what was a very complicated and difficult mission. And so, you know, one of the things we really focused on in the story is, this is all risk-reward. The United States wanted to have a better understanding of the thinking of Kim Jong-un and his officials. They had this chance to plant this device, but then you have to think of the risk.
Here's a difficult mission, and the costs of a potential failure are vast. Now, President Trump, who's in charge of making that decision, ultimately decided to go forward.
COOPER: And according to your reporting, he personally approved it and did so without notifying key members of Congress. The Times just made it clear that he didn't just casually publish the story. You withheld some sensitive information. Can you explain to people why your sources felt it was important to talk to you about this?
PHILIPPS: The most important thing is accountability. You know, the SEALs have this Superman type of reputation in our culture, and a lot of that's deserved. They've done some really important, difficult missions. But there's a lot of failures out there that are classified that nobody ever learns about, including policymakers.
And so, someone like President Trump or Congress or another president may think, oh, I can rely on the SEALs to do this and really not have an idea of how mixed their record is. So, you know, not only that, but there are real questions of what influence this had on nuclear negotiations.
In 2009, there seemed to be real progress happening. After this mission, no more progress. In fact, the two countries don't really speak. And North Korea has tested more missiles in the last couple of years than ever.
COOPER: Yes.
PHILIPPS: It's a fascinating account in the New York Times. David Philipps, I really appreciate it. Thanks very much.
I'll speak with Congressman Jake Auchincloss in a moment. He's warning that the obsessions with our phones and all things digital, and particularly with the coming AI, is consuming not only America, but particularly our kids, and that it's only going to get worse. Here's what -- you're going to hear what he says needs to be done to try to reverse this or slow it down at least.
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[20:47:59]
COOPER: Tonight Massachusetts Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss is sounding the alarm on how tech companies and corporations are spending billions of dollars to essentially reach inside our kids' brains and give them dopamine hits that keep them glued to their screens. He warns it's about to get much worse with Artificial Intelligence and much more addictive, and young people will be increasingly living in an AI generated world rather than connecting with the real world.
In a New York Times op-ed this week, Representative Auchincloss is writing not just as a dad with three young children, he says, but as a lawmaker who wants to try to do something about it. Congressman Auchincloss joins me now.
I really -- I found it really important what you wrote, and as a father of two little kids, I am freaked out about this as much as it sounds like you are potentially as well. I'm wondering what -- can you just explain what you see as the problem?
REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): Anderson, good evening. Thanks for having me on.
For the last 15 years, the tech titans have been announcing the next smartphone, the newest app and they've been breathlessly promising the future. And now I've got three little kids, I know you've got two young sons as well, and I'm on the committee of jurisdiction over these companies and I'm asking, is this actually the future that we want?
Because the future that they have built is one in which they are hijacking the reward system of our brains. They are cutting out the real world and using software to directly deliver dopamine hits that addict Americans. And it's most acute for our young people because young people's reward systems are most sensitive and their judgment is the most immature and we're seeing this as young men get routed towards online gambling, towards social media, towards pornography in a way that's really hurting their prospects in the jobs market, in the marriage market, and is depriving our country I think of real cultural vitality.
And Americans can choose a different future. This status quo is not one that is foreordained. We can choose differently and we must.
[20:50:02]
COOPER: It's interesting, though, because, you know, you talk to folks in the AI industry and they very much believe or say that there is this arms race. And if American companies don't win the AI arms race, you know, a Chinese company is going to win it and it may be a malicious actor not good for, may be even worse than whatever may happen here.
But it is -- it seems to me an experiment that we don't really know the results of. I mean, like, what does it mean to be a little kid now who's going to grow up in a world where you won't be able to tell anything is -- what is real and what's not? A video image, a still photograph, like something small like that which just -- it seems like, we're looking at these cool artificial intelligence videos.
But if you can't tell what's real and there are no facts anymore because everything can be disputed and made up, what does that do to people, what does that do to society?
AUCHINCLOSS: That's right, and the social media corporations that platform these relationship bots and these synthetic videos and photographs have no legal liability, this -- the kind of legal liability that you have, Anderson, as a reporter, they have none of it.
So they have no skin in the game whatsoever. That's a law that Congress passed. That's a law that Congress can change and we should. This is not an anti-technology point of view. I was the director of MIT's entrepreneurship competition. Massachusetts is a fulcrum of technology.
And whether it's biology or climate action or AI powered robotics, we need a lot of technology to build the kind of future we want more --
COOPER: So what's the legislative fix.
AUCHINCLOSS: -- clean energy.
COOPER: I mean if there is an arms race --
AUCHINCLOSS: Let me --
COOPER: -- and you don't want to slow down innovation.
AUCHINCLOSS: Yes. Let me give you an example of what we need to do differently. So just this week, Google settled in court or the court found that under U.S. antitrust laws, Google needed to share some data with its competitors. And I would say that to the average American, that means nothing, like whether Google shares its search data with another company is not solving any problem that an average American has.
That's because the law in question was from the 19th century. We need to update our laws to directly regulate what we want less of. We need to start treating digital dopamine not as an issue of business practice but as an actual medical phenomenon and have the consumer product safety commission directly evaluate digital dopamine to guide adult's use and to restrict children's use.
Because ultimately, this is warping the cognitive development of our young people and these tech companies are warping those brains for profit. You see Mark Zuckerberg has internal documentation of Meta that says it's appropriate for 12-year olds to have, quote, "sensual conversations" with AI bots. I don't want my kids having conversations with Mark Zuckerberg's AI bots.
COOPER: Congressman Auchincloss, I hope everybody reads your piece in the Times. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, the historic moment that's expected this weekend at the Vatican when a teen known as God's influencer will become the Catholic Church's first millennial saint.
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[20:57:49] COOPER: History is going to be made in St. Peter's Square, the Vatican on Sunday. That's when a teenager becomes the Catholic Church's first millennial saint. CNN's Christopher Lamb has more.
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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): God's influencer, an Italian teenager who was a computer whiz kid and loved video games. Carlo Acutis will become the first millennial saint.
LAMB: Now when people think of saints, they often imagine men with beards and robes and something from the past. But Carlo Acutis, as you can see, is someone who was laid out with jeans and trainers. So he's a very relatable saint. And at a time when the Catholic Church is seeking to connect with a younger generation, this figure of Carlo Acutis has a lot of resonance today.
LAMB (voice-over): He died aged 15 of leukaemia in 2006 and has developed a global following.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's just like a saint. He's just like a regular teenage guy and he had the same interests. He liked sports, he liked the internet of course. And so, yes, he just -- he really just represents young people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like I have a closer connection to him because I was born on the year that he died and I have the same hobbies as him. And on Instagram, I try to spread the gospel as best as I can.
LAMB (voice-over): Carlo's path to sainthood has been swift. But his mother Antonia said he wasn't raised in a religious household. His faith partly nurtured by his Polish nanny.
ANTONIA SALZANO, MOTHER, CARLO ACUTIS: I was converted by my son. He was my savior.
LAMB (voice-over): He grew up in a wealthy family, but used his privileged position to help others, donating pocket money to the homeless while setting up a website to document reports of miracles. Candidates for sainthood usually need two miracles attributed to their intercession. Carlo's included a reported healing of a Brazilian boy with a birth defect and a young woman from Costa Rica injured in a bicycle accident in Florence.
Interest in Acutis is global. His tomb here in Assisi received almost a million visitors last year. And an official shrine has been set up in Pennsylvania. Carlo's mother describes him as a normal child who enjoyed playing on his play station and made videos of his family pets. He also stood up for pupils being bullied at school.
Antonia believes his message can resonate with young people today.
ACUTIS: It's a message of hope because Carlo said, yes, you have to use for the good. This is the way -- the motive why Pope Francis called Carlo Influencer of God. POPE FRANCIS, VATICAN: (Foreign language) Carlo Acutis.
LAMB (voice-over): Acutis' canonization comes as the church is still reeling from the damage done by the scandals of clerical sexual abuse of children, but also when research shows a rise in interest in Catholicism among Gen Z. Many of whom are expected in Rome to witness this video gaming teenager being declared a saint.
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COOPER: That was CNN's Christopher Lamb.
The news continues. The Source starts now.
