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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
White House Says Signature In Epstein "Birthday Book" Letter Is Not Trump's; Interview With Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL); DHS Launching New Immigration Operation In Chicago; Supreme Court Allows Trump To Continue "Roving" ICE Patrols In California; Kentucky Governor Beshear On How Democrats Should Navigate Trump And Win Back Voters; Horrific Video Shows Stabbing Death On Charlotte, N.C. Train; Howard Stern Pranks Listeners As Exit Rumors Mount. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 08, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARA HARTIGAN WHELAN, PRESIDENT, WESTCHESTER LAND TRUST: We need lands to grow food on. It's just that simple. If we don't have these farms, we won't have that local food.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Do you grow your own tomatoes.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Yes, but not this year. Our garden got destroyed by mint. The mint took over the garden.
BURNETT: Oh the mint, aw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Government cuts have taken away the funding for the Westchester Land Trust and so many across the country making funding a crucial issue now. Don't miss "Champions For Change" one hour special, Saturday at 10:00. And thanks for joining us, it's time for AC360.
[20:00:46]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, a signature moment the birthday tribute to Jeffrey Epstein, released by Congress that The White House says it's not from the President with a signature, The White House says is not from the President. But what about all the other signatures that look just like it?
Also tonight, federal agents boost immigration enforcement in Chicago and elsewhere. With the question still out there, will troops be next?
And later, King of all Media try King of all Hoaxes as Howard Stern puts one over on the media about leaving his network.
Good evening, John Berman here in for Anderson tonight.
Less than an hour ago, the House Oversight Committee Released a batch of records from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein. CNN is going over them and will bring you what we learned when we learn it. We begin, though, with one item from that batch, the one the President has at times denied even exists, namely, a letter purported to be his contribution to a book of bawdy letters celebrating Jeffrey Epstein's birthday back in 2003.
In fact, Trump is suing "The Wall Street Journal" for publishing a story saying so for $10 billion. At issue, a picture of a woman's torso, which he says he did not draw, with dialogue he says he did not write, capped by his signature his spokespeople and supporters have been saying is not his.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't even know what they're talking about. Now, somebody could have written a letter and used my name, but that's happened a lot. All you have to do is take a look at the dossier, the fake dossier.
I don't do drawings. I'm not a drawing person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Today, the "Wall Street Journal" published the drawing, so did Democrats on the House Oversight Committee.
The text reads --
Voice Over: There must be more to life than having everything.
Donald: Yes, there is, but I won't tell you what it is.
Jeffrey: Nor will I, since I also know what it is.
Donald: We have certain things in common, Jeffrey.
Jeffrey: Yes we do, come to think of it.
Donald: Enigmas never age. Have you noticed that?
Jeffrey: As a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you.
Donald: A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret.
BERMAN: It is signed below the woman's waistline, Donald, just as "The Journal" reported.
Now, over at The White House, yet nothing from the President himself, either on camera or social media. But this online from his press secretary quoting now, "The latest piece published by "The Wall Street Journal" proves this entire birthday card story is false.
As I have said all along, it's very clear President Trump did not draw this picture and he did not sign it. President Trump's legal team will continue to aggressively pursue litigation.
Another White House aide, Taylor Budowich, posted this, "It's time for News Corp to open that checkbook. It's not his signature. Defamation." News Corp, of course, is the "Journal's" parent company has evidenced by two, which included these more recent examples of Trumps signature in his social media post, claiming they don't match the one on the Epstein letter or the letter to Epstein.
However, those are all on more formal or official documents and seem to all include first and last names, not just Donald as the birthday note signature does, or this one published in "The New York Times" from Jeffrey Epstein's autographed copy of Trump the art of the comeback, dated 1997 or these from 1984 in a letter to "The New York Times," 1995 to a Palm Beach official, 1999 to the late Larry King in 2014 in a note to Keith Olbermann, which Olbermann posted today. "The Times" published theirs in 2016, the other two are from auction sites. Are all these Donald's from all these documents over all those years fakes?
More significantly, were they all forged over those four decades in exactly the same way? And if so, to what end exactly? The White House is not saying. However, in a statement Sunday to "The Washington Post" about the larger Epstein situation, The White House merely said the President, "has always been committed to justice and transparency for these victims." He has also many times now called the entire Epstein story a Democratic hoax.
With us tonight, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, a Democrat who sits on the House Oversight Committee. Congressman, nice to see you tonight. The White House denies that that's the President's signature underneath that lewd doodle. What do you see there?
[20:05:05]
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): I haven't talked to anybody around here who doubts that that's Donald Trump's signature or drawing. Look, I think the bigger issue here -- I mean, look, this note was so vulgar. But the bigger issue here is that after sitting with the survivors of the Epstein abuse case for two-and-a-half hours last week, many of us feel that for the sake of justice, transparency and preventing this from ever happening again, we need the full Epstein files. And I think this note just confirms that we need the full production of files now more than ever.
BERMAN: What do you think of The White House denial that this is signature?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, they're going to deny the truth of many topics associated with this Epstein affair, because it is for some reason, disturbing to them. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't get the full production of documents. And we need to ascertain the truth because, look, I think a lot of the victims or the survivors said that there might be people at large who are connected to this child sex trafficking ring and they need to be brought to justice. But I think the bigger question is, how could this have ever happened, and 20 years later, we're still trying to look for the answers.
BERMAN: So Democrats on the House Oversight Committee also shared another page from the birthday book that references then citizen Trump. It shows people presenting Epstein with a large novelty check. The handwritten note below says, "Jeffrey, showing early talents with money and women, sells fully depreciated (redacted, but we think a woman's name) to Donald Trump for $22,500.00. Several of the faces are blacked out. CNN blurred some others until we get reaction now. Clearly, that is not the President's signature on this fake check.
But generally speaking, what do you make of this picture and sort of the atmosphere it's depicting?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think look, I think Donald Trump surrounds himself or surrounded himself with people of ill repute, including Jeffrey Epstein and whoever this guy was that thought it was really funny to say that someone had been sold to Donald Trump for $22,500.00 and I think that, again, we don't know why Donald Trump doesn't want those files to be produced. But now more than ever, we need those files to be produced.
The first 33,000 pages of those files were just merely documents already in the public domain. The remainder of those files may contain financial records and other information that, as the survivors have routinely maintained, are crucial not only for their healing, because in many cases they don't have access to even information about their personal abuse, but also information about others that need to be brought to justice.
BERMAN: You -- I noted the committee has also just in the last hour, released more, if not all, of the information provided by the Epstein estate. I don't know if you have had a chance to go through it yet, but any other headlines jump out to you?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Not yet, I haven't had a chance to go through it. We're like actively reviewing those documents. The staff is right now around the clock. But I think that it's fair to say that there's going to be more and more information that comes out one way or another, regardless of what this White House does, to try to block the production of that information.
BERMAN: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi from Illinois, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.
BERMAN: With us now, Alyssa Farah Griffin, former Trump White House communications director, now CNN political commentator. And Kara Swisher, journalist and host of the "On and Pivot" podcast. Alyssa, the headline, what do you think the headline is from the birthday book release and The White House response.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not really sure where to begin with this one. I mean, the just the creepiest birthday poem of all time however you swing it. And I think looking at it, I've seen Donald Trump's signature. He signed things for me before. It looks like it. It doesn't have Trump there. It looks like a less formal signature of -- a signature we're all very familiar with.
The White House is going to continue to double down and what I'm most interested to see is where do Republican allies in congress fall on this? Are there any that break and say, we need to know more and keep pushing forward, support this Massie-Ro Khanna resolution. And also, where is Fox News in all of this? Because we live in such an information silo that if half the country, if the right is not hearing getting this covered, they're not seeing it. Folks just may not care in an impactful way.
So, I'm curious to see how Republicans react to this, or if they just side with him and say, this can't be him.
BERMAN: The signature, when you look at the signature and all those other examples, we looked for like 25 minutes to get those examples. It's not like we had to search for months. They look like his signature. Why is the White House in this fight over whether or not it's, you know, they could say that someone else put it there, but to say it's not his.
GRIFFIN: It's the old school Trump playbook. Just deny, deny, deny, never admit wrongdoing. And even in that statement from the Press Secretary saying this proves our point, you know, that "The Wall Street Journal" was lying. They didn't explain how so, like they didn't give you -- to walk you through that. So, I think that's just -- that's the only kind of avenue that they have.
BERMAN: Yes but what does it prove to you, Kara?
KARA SWISHER, CNN ON-AIR CONTRIBUTOR: That they're good at lying or they're bad at lying, actually. I mean, it's clearly the problem is they said it didn't exist, and now it exists. He said he never draws. There's multiple examples of him drawing a lot like this actually. It seems to be his style. They said it's not his signature. Then you show him signatures that are just like it. You know, they're just -- don't believe your lying eyes is what -- that's the policy, I guess, something like that.
Like, don't believe what your eyes are saying because -- believe us, when in fact they're disingenuous and mendacious all the time. Those are the same words.
[20:10:39]
BERMAN: Republicans on the House Oversight Committee are very angry that that this was released. They said it was cherry picked, that the birthday book was cherry picked from the from the Epstein estate --
SWISHER: The thing in question, this is what he's suing Rupert Murdoch about and Rupert Murdoch just delivered. You know, I don't know how this is going to help their case against Rupert Murdoch. And by the way, Rupert Murdoch settled his own family problems today, too at the same time. I think the editor of "The Wall Street Journal" Emma Tucker, is just astonishing. She's just has a lot of guts to be doing this stuff. But they now they have the receipts and they also did a went through everything and showed every time he said. I didn't say the word enigma. They found like ten versions of it where he said and called people that. This is his signature. Here's his doodles, here's this. It's all in keeping. And by the way, lets' not go away from anything besides the multiple pictures of him with Epstein. They were friends for two decades, at least two decades. And this all this nonsense about him throwing him out, none of it checks out.
And so, if I'm going to believe someone, I'm going to believe what I see. These are -- he sent them this thing. He may not have known what was happening with Epstein. I have no idea, but he -- it's him, it's him.
BERMAN: In addition, the other document that we've seen so far from the estate is this novelty check.
SWISHER: Yes.
BERMAN: Right, and the language in it is roughly where it's this joke where there's this check for Donald Trump buying and a fully depreciated woman is the joke there. Now again, that doesn't appear to be Trump's signature on that. I don't know if you knew anything about this, but the atmosphere and the type of language being used here, Alyssa.
GRIFFIN: Well, listen, this was always going to come out as much more likely is going to and I just don't understand why Trump doesn't acknowledge. There is video of their relationship of them palling around at Mar-a-Lago. There's him attending his wedding to Marla Maples. You can acknowledge I knew this guy at one point, but I'm not -- I didn't know the activities he engaged in. I had no idea these horrible things. Let's get to the bottom of it. That's' the baseline of what you would expect from the President, but they're really leaning into this strategy of just denying.
And I'm curious to see, there have been some of these very, very powerful voices on the right, like Joe Rogan, who have really been holding their feet to the fire, The White House on this, they're not letting go of it. They just don't buy it. And if some of those outside voices on the right keep pushing, I think that breaks through with the public.
BERMAN: Interesting in general, the way that women are discussed in that novelty check, you know, it makes you, again, think --
SWISHER: It's almost as if someone said, grab them by the, you know, I don't know who said that, but someone did. But, you know, it's that attitude towards women. Isn't it funny? It's sort of a 12-year-old boy who is badly raised kind of attitude towards women in this ridiculous joking about.
BERMAN: And again, it makes me think about the victims here who are often, you know, not the first, second, third or fourth thing that come up when people like The White House are talking about this.
SWISHER: They never talk about the victims because they could care less. They're interested in the preservation of Donald Trump. And this is a problem for him. I said this at the very beginning because it is at the core of MAGA. It's one of the pillars, not MAGA, it's more to the conspiracy movement. This is this Epstein thing is at the core and so, it's going to be very hard, as you say, to shake.
Now, some people like Charlie Kirk, he's made a paper mache. He'll give, he'll fold whenever he needs to. He was quite adamant about it and then suddenly wasn't. Others like Joe Rogan probably will stick to it. And so, that's the problem, he has a lot of these people, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene, there's a bunch of them that are going to be problematic for the President.
BERMAN: I mean there's the discharge petition that's in the House of Representatives, where these votes we just we heard shortly ago from Ro Khanna with Erin Burnett, who says he thinks they'll get there in the next few weeks.
GRIFFIN: Yes, they're going to be forcing this vote on the House floor. I think it will likely pass. And that's where it gets interesting. I mean, having worked on the Oversight Committee in previous Congresses, the Justice Department can kind of decide what they want to hand over. I suspect you're going to get a lot of kind of deciding what they want to see in the public, but they cannot just refuse.
Once Congress issues that subpoena, once the vote is forced, they're going to have to turn over some new documents. It's very likely that we will eventually see whether its grand jury testimony, whether it's some additional information that just gives us further insight into. There's just so many questions. We will learn more about this
SWISHER: It's not good for Donald Trump for this to come out now. It just isn't because it revives that story, which he's been trying to quash by, I'm going to attack Chicago. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.
BERMAN: Well -- But the other story that's out there is the jobs numbers are terrible, Alyssa. And so, you do wonder, would you rather talk -- would you rather have a fight about your signature or talk about the fact that there were jobs lost in June?
GRIFFIN: Well, to your point, as you said, he's going to make this about the signature. He's going to make it about a lawsuit against "The Wall Street Journal" really try to make it these sort of battles of the liberal media is coming after me. But the big story here, exactly, the Rupert Murdoch, the big story here is that there are victims who have come forward. They have talked about him as relationship. There is evidence that has been seen. He could have put this behind him in a bigger way. But he has chosen this path of deny, deny, deny and the facts just are not lining up with him.
[20:15:30]
BERMAN: And putting behind him in a big way again. So tonight with this story, yes, there is the denial, but it doesn't put it away because now you have days of signature comparisons here. It seems every day they extend --
SWISHER: That's what's going to happen, It's going to -- conspiracy theories online happen like that.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
SWISHER: They just build and build and build and then it gets out of his hands and that's' the problem. And one of the things that's interesting is, well, Fox News do, this is Rupert Murdoch's newspaper doing this. Now, I know that he does one thing with "The Wall Street Journal" another things with Fox, but it's going to be -- I have a feeling Rupert is -- I wouldn't wrangle with that guy ultimately in the end. And now he's settled a very big problem and he can put his focus wherever he wants.
BERMAN: Kara Swisher, Alyssa Farah Griffin, thank you both so much.
Just ahead, a brutal killing caught on camera. The human tragedy that truly is and the partisan political whirlwind now surrounding it.
And next, to Kara's point a moment ago about Chicago with federal Immigration Enforcement Agents streaming into the city, the President pines for sending in troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I don't know why Chicago isn't calling us, saying, please give us help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:55]
BERMAN: Tonight, federal immigration officers boosting enforcement in Boston and Chicago. The Chicago effort is being called Operation Midway Blitz, and it follows a bellicose online posting over the weekend from the President modeling himself after "Apocalypse Now's" Colonel Kilgore. It reads, "I love the smell of deportations in the morning."
"Chicago about to find out why it's called the Department of War," which suggests even if the President does not plan to drop napalm on Chicago, as Colonel Kilgore did in the "Viet Cong" in the movie, that he at least is following through on his threat to send in troops, except he hasn't, and now seems to be fishing for an invite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I don't know why Chicago isn't calling us, saying, please give us help when you have over just a short period of time, 50 murders and hundreds of people shot, and then you have a governor that stands up and says how crime is just fine. It's really crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, troops or no troops, the Supreme Court today apparently gave federal law enforcement more leeway in Chicago and elsewhere.
By a six-three vote, the court ruled that ICE can, for now, resume patrols in Southern California where masked agents pull aside Latinos, including U.S. citizens, to determine their immigration status. With us now, the Democratic Governor of Illinois, Lieutenant Governor, I should say Juliana Stratton, who we should point out is running for U.S. Senate there. Lieutenant governor, thank you very much. What are you seeing on the streets tonight in Chicago? And what are you hearing from your constituents?
LT. GOV. JULIANA STRATTON (D-IL): Well, we are still not getting any communication about what the exact plan is. So, of course, we are monitoring very closely and working with community-based organizations to just determine if there is activity in their communities and is there anything that we need to be monitoring. But what I can tell you is that we still have not seen any real effort to make sure that they are working with our administration, working with the government, with the governor, rather. And I can say that this is clearly an effort to really manufacture chaos. If this really was about public safety, the Trump administration would reach out to our administration here in Illinois. They would work closely with our law enforcement agencies and make sure that there was a coordinated effort that we would have real understanding of their plans. That is not happening.
And as -- in terms of how its impacting our communities, people are scared and rightfully so. We are seeing and hearing stories of how businesses are being impacted because people are afraid to come out and walk down the streets of their communities. We know that there are parents who are scared to take their children to school. And I've heard stories of many who are just deciding to stay in their homes because this administration has made such threats towards the state of Illinois and the City of Chicago. None of it is based on public safety. There is no emergency here and we have made it very clear that they are not welcome.
BERMAN: Well, okay, so you said two things that I want to follow up on. One, that there has been no communication; and two, you say they're not welcome. What then do you see as the role for state and local law enforcement, if and when the federal officials arrive?
STRATTON: Well, first of all, let me just clarify that. What I'm saying is no coordination. There was some sort of communication to our Illinois State Police from Border Patrol or ICE -- of ICE, but we have not had coordination. And that means saying what, you know, are we trying to do here in Illinois? What are we trying to do in Chicago? And how can we work with your officials?
And I'm really talking about the fact that they said that this was predicated upon being an enforcement effort to create safer communities. That's what the President has said. And so, when I say that there's no coordination, it's because the things that will help create safer communities here in Illinois are not, you know, thinking, threatening to have federalized National Guard. It's not coming in and just swarming our streets and snatching people off the streets and stuffing them into unmarked cars by masked agents. That is not what coordinated efforts to create public safety is really about. If they really want to focus on public safety, what they would do is release the $800 million in violence prevention grants that are being stripped away by the Trump administration. That would help the state of Illinois and there are many other efforts that could help but we did not ask for this.
[20:25:37]
And then in terms of what might happen with local and state law enforcement, and we are going to do what we have always done, which is follow the law. You may know that the Trust Act is the law of the land here in Illinois, and we make sure that if there is someone who has been charged or convicted of a violent crime, we have always said if an undocumented immigrant is convicted of a violent crime, we will work with federal partners to have them removed from our communities, removed from our state and, of course, even the country.
But that's not what's happening here. They're going into houses of worship, into businesses, they're going into museums and other places, festivals where people are gathering. And it's not about going after those who are a threat to public safety. It's about going after our neighbors and we're not going to stand for that.
BERMAN: Lieutenant Governor Juliana Stratton of Illinois, thank you very much for being with us tonight.
STRATTON: Thank you for having me.
BERMAN: All right, I want talk now more about the Supreme Court ruling. With us is former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. He's also the author of "The Pardon: The Politics of Presidential Mercy." Jeffrey, put the decision in perspective for us tonight. What was the Trump administration asking for? And what did the court do in response?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, historically, one of the big issues in criminal law has been when can you stop someone? How much suspicion, how much probable cause do you need to stop someone? And what the Trump administration said in California is one thing were looking for are Latinos or Hispanics or people who of that ethnic background and we think that is a legitimate factor to consider in whether to stop people. And by a six to three vote today, the Supreme Court said in one of these abbreviated opinions, with almost no reasoning, said, that's okay.
And the three dissenters were very concerned about the fact that ethnicity standing alone could be a factor in whether people are stopped. But the court very clearly said that was a factor that was appropriate to consider. So ICE can go ahead and do that.
BERMAN: You mentioned that a centrist judge, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, in her dissent, she wrote, "We should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish and appears to work in a low-wage job. To what extent does this decision now permit that? TOOBIN: Well, it clearly permits it and what this mostly involves is, and I think most -- many people are familiar with this is the people who line up by home depot, by construction companies in the morning and hope to be hired as day laborers. The administration is saying enough of those people are Hispanic and looking for work. That that is a suspect enough community to stop and test their immigration status. That is a greenlight from the Supreme Court to continue doing that in California and around the country.
BERMAN: This doesn't mean to sound alarm, but just as a matter of practicality, does this mean that that if you are a person of color near a home depot in the morning, you should bring a birth certificate just in case?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, that's the concern of the dissenters. And, you know, the risk, of course, is overbroad application of this decision is that, you know, stopping people who have no connection to any sort of illegal status, but that's obviously something that the Supreme Court thinks is a risk willing to take.
BERMAN: While I have you here counselor, I do want to ask you one legal matter having to do with this Epstein birthday book that was released, the signature that the White House says is not the President's. But I want to ask you about the defamation case, because the President has sued "The Wall Street Journal" which put out this article, which reported all of the things that we've now seen with our eyes here, suing them for defamation for $10 billion. What is the presence of this document that we now see with our own eyes? How does that play into a defamation case?
TOOBIN: Well, it certainly helps "The Wall Street Journal" and News Corp as defendants. The issue will be that President Trump will claim that this is either a forgery or he had nothing to do with it. Some someone submitted it without his permission.
[20:30:08]
I think obviously what needs to be done now is more analysis and history of how this document came into being.
But, you know, if this is an authentic document and if this is something that Donald Trump created himself, Donald Trump is not just looking forward to losing that case, he could get sanctions against him because it is that, you know, outrageous to claim that something is made up when you yourself created it.
But obviously we're a long way from that point, but the next battleground in this lawsuit will be to examine, you know, just how this document was created, who did it and when. And, you know, there will be able -- people will be able to figure out more about it. But, you know, at the moment it sure looks authentic.
BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, great to see you tonight. Thank you very much.
TOOBIN: Alrighty, Berman. BERMAN: Just ahead, Kentucky's Democratic Governor Andy Beshear, a chief executive in a deep red state, on how he says Democrats should be winning back Trump voters. And Howard Stern's elaborate hoax about his future in radio, Andy Cohen was in on the joke.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
ANDY COHEN, TV SHOW HOST: There's been a lot of talk about what's going to happen with Howard, is he fired? I don't know how much I'm allowed to say, except that he's not here, and I am.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:08]
BERMAN: Today's announcement from the Trump administration about Operation Midway Blitz came after another warning from the President over the weekend. The President declared on Sunday that he will decide, quote, "over the next day or two" whether he'll deploy the National Guard into other cities to crack down on violent crime. A decision we're still waiting on.
We also just touched on the victory President Trump was handed by the Supreme Court, giving ICE the green light to continue using ethnicity, language, and a person's particular location as a reasonable suspicion to stop and question them about their immigration status.
With us now is the current Governor of Kentucky, Democrat Andy Beshear. Thank you very much for being with us right now.
GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY: Thanks for having me.
BERMAN: Look, I haven't heard your state being targeted in any way, any of the cities in your state, for federal resources, the deployment of the National Guard. But what's your reaction to the news out of Chicago?
BESHEAR: Well, my reaction is the National Guard should never be sent into a state where the governor or a city where the mayor has said no. Now, the National Guard isn't trained for regular law enforcement. You can send them in, and maybe their presence will decrease crime for a short period of time, but it's not a real solution. The real solution is the hard work.
In Kentucky, we raised the salaries of our state police significantly, and we have more on the roads than ever before. We got serious about reducing recidivism. We're teaching a skilled trade in each of our prisons to make sure people don't commit the second or the third crime.
We have intervention with our youth. If we really want to make sure that people feel safer, we ought to be doing the things that will make them safer long term. BERMAN: You claim that when you're out speaking to constituents, people in Kentucky, and I think around the country, that people don't talk to you that much about Donald Trump. It's a little hard to believe, let me stipulate that, but accepting that it's true, why do you think that is?
BESHEAR: Well, I think people are less political than most of us think they are. And when people wake up in the morning, they're not thinking about Donald Trump or the next election, they're thinking about their job and whether they make enough to support their family.
They're thinking about their next doctor's appointment for themselves, their parents or their kids. They're thinking about the roads and bridges they drive, the school they drop their kids off at, and whether they feel safe in their community. And a lot of people right now can't check all of those boxes.
BERMAN: But don't you think he has an outside -- or do you think he's got an outside role in all of those things?
BESHEAR: I do. Now, I think he made a lot of promises, and that's why he's president. He made promises to reduce costs, to not cut Medicaid, and then he's done everything but. So I think that the path for Democrats to re-earn the faith of the American people is right there, but it takes discipline. You've got to not only spend most of your time talking about creating better jobs, you've got to actually do it.
BERMAN: Well, and then it takes a decision about how you talk about him or address the White House in Washington. To an extent, you have Governor Whitmer in Michigan who's made overtures, like, you know, very, very, you know, public overtures to the White House. Then you have Gavin Newsom in California who's done the exact opposite.
So on the, you know, the Whitmer-Newsom spectrum, where do you place yourself?
BESHEAR: Well, I think both of them are trying to be the best governors of their states as they can be. And the President's taken very different postures towards California and towards Michigan. They're both great leaders. They are both good friends.
But I think both of them approach their job not as to be the best Democratic governor, but the best governor they can be. So for me, if Donald Trump's doing something that helps Kentucky, his FEMA response to our February flooding was really good. I'm going to say that it is. But his big, ugly bill is going to hurt us more than any other state.
His tariffs are hurting us more than any other state. So my job is to speak out for my people.
BERMAN: Assuming we're all into this whole Constitution thing in 2028, Donald Trump won't be able to run again.
BESHEAR: Correct.
BERMAN: Vice President JD Vance may be the Republican candidate. How do you compare his political skills and acumen to Donald Trump's?
BESHEAR: Well, I don't think he is going to have the ability to do certain things that Donald Trump does. I also think Donald Trump doesn't come off like he's talking down to people.
[20:40:08]
Donald Trump doesn't generally act like he is better than people. And you see that with JD Vance. You see how he talks not just about people, but about Europe, about our alliances, and certainly the book that made him famous. Talked badly about people from my state. Talked about our levels of addiction or poverty being our fault.
Listen, our people are proud people. We helped power the Industrial Revolution, powered us through two world wars, and the way he has exploited the people of Kentucky for personal gain is just wrong.
BERMAN: Speaking of 2028, you're term limited.
BESHEAR: I am.
BERMAN: You can't be governor that much longer. So the question arises, what are you going to do next? You just signed on. You have a SiriusXM show. We were just talking about that during the commercial break.
Let me put the question this way, what would you be doing differently right now if you definitely were not about to run for president?
BESHEAR: I'm not sure how to diagnose that question. What I'd say is, right now, I'm trying to speak reason into chaos. I'm trying to be a voice of common sense, common ground, and getting things done. That's where I want the Democratic Party to be, but that's where I want the Republican Party to be. That's where I want independence to be.
When we're done with this current presidency, we need to do more than just move past Donald Trump. We need to heal this country. We can't continue this us versus them for any longer. We need our McCarthyism moment where we can come back together.
So, you know, this year, trying to do what I can to be a reasonable voice. Next year, head of the Democratic Governors Association. We're going to win in a lot of places and change the map.
After that, I'm going to sit down, and if my family thinks that I'm somebody that can help heal this country, I'll consider it. But if there's somebody else, I'll be for them because at the end of the day, I care more about the United States than any title that I could have.
BERMAN: Governor Andy Beshear, we will be standing by to hear more about those discussions. Thank you very much.
Surveillance video released of a horrific, deadly stabbing of a woman on a train in Charlotte, North Carolina. How the President and his allies are using the attack to accuse Democrats of being soft on crime. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:52]
BERMAN: Newly released surveillance video from Charlotte, North Carolina sparking renewed discussion about violent crime in U.S. cities. 23-year-old Iryna Zarutska, a refugee who fled the war in Ukraine for a new life in the U.S., was stabbed to death on August 22nd.
A suspect identified as Decarlos Brown is charged with her murder. Police say he has an extensive criminal record. His family says Brown suffers from a variety of mental health issues.
The killing has become a political flashpoint for the President and his allies. Let's get more tonight from CNN's Dianne Gallagher. We do want to warn you that the video here is extremely disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Authorities released chilling surveillance video of a fatal stabbing last month on Charlotte, North Carolina's light rail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just rode it, like, hours before. Like, I'd be on there all the time. I have had words with people, but never violent.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Video of the unprovoked attack shows 23-year- old Iryna Zarutska, a Ukrainian refugee, walk onto the train and sit directly in front of the suspect, still in her work uniform from that day. After the train travels for approximately 4.5 minutes with no interaction between the victim and the assailant, he is seen pulling a knife from his pocket, unfolding it, and standing up before stabbing Zarutska three times and walking away.
Due to the graphic nature of the video, CNN is not showing the moment she was stabbed. In the video, Zarutska is seen unresponsive shortly after the attack. The suspect, 34-year-old Decarlos Brown, has been charged with first-degree murder. He was hospitalized for treatment of a laceration, and a judge has ordered a 60-day psychiatric evaluation.
Brown has a lengthy criminal record, including convictions for armed robbery, felony larceny, and breaking and entering. State records show he was released in 2020 after spending over five years in prison for robbery with a dangerous weapon.
Brown was released after a January arrest for misuse of the 911 system, according to court records, on the condition that he promised to appear for his next hearing. The White House saying the move left him, quote, "free to slaughter an innocent woman just months later."
Members of the Trump administration also used the video to criticize Democratic-led cities for being soft on crime, a hot-button issue as President Trump vows to crack down on crime in large, predominantly Democratic cities. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lunatic just got up and started, it's right on the tape, not really watchable because it's so horrible, but just viciously stabbed. We have to be able to handle that. If we don't handle that, we don't have a country.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Charlotte's mayor, Vi Lyles, released a statement Monday calling the horrific crime, quote, "a tragic failure by the courts and magistrates," and promising ramped-up public transportation security. In her obituary, it says that Iryna Zarutska fled Ukraine in 2022 with her mother, sister and brother to escape the war with Russia. Quote, "and she quickly embraced her new life in the United States," only for it to be cut short by a senseless act of violence.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GALLAGHER (on-camera): Now, Brown is homeless, according to court documents and his family. CNN spoke with his mother and his sister, who say that for years, they have struggled to get him adequate mental health treatment. His sister telling CNN that he is diagnosed as schizophrenic and also suffers from hallucinations and paranoia.
[20:50:04]
That January 911 misuse charge, John, he wanted police to investigate the fact that he said a man-made substance had been put inside him and was controlling his actions. One more thing, as far as how this shocking stabbing here on the light rail in Charlotte will play into the national conversation about violent crime, just last month, Charlotte police were touting a 25 percent reduction in violent crime for the first half of this year compared to last year.
BERMAN: Dianne Gallagher for us tonight, thank you very much for that.
For more on the case, I want to bring in John Miller, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst. John, you know, the first question people ask when they read about this or see the video, you know, how could this guy, how could he be on the streets?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, if you dig into that, which we spent the day doing, you know, my producer Jeff Winter spoke to the mother of the suspect, the sister of the suspect, and he asked these questions about, you know, why is he not in jail? He had done five years for the armed robbery.
After he gets out, he gets arrested for assault on a female. Now, this sets off all kinds of alarm bells, but we find out in the interview that the assault on the female was an assault against his sister and damage to her property. And she withdrew the charges, essentially refused to continue as a complainant on the idea of he doesn't need to go back to jail. He's mentally ill. He needs treatment.
And both relatives told us about trying to get him into these programs, keep him in these programs. And that has been the struggle. The tragedy of this case is the victim. You see her sitting there on the video. She's just looking at her phone like everybody else on that train. And the unprovoked nature of this, the viciousness of the assault, the speed with which she dies is a terrible tragedy.
But when you get through the calls to 911, the withdrawn charges with the sister, what he really needed was inpatient mental health care. And North Carolina rates last when it comes to mental health, bed availability, mental health clinics. Budgets have been slashed on the state level.
Now another giant slash by the Trump administration to the Medicaid funds going to North Carolina that would have supplied what was left. So this is a real challenge for police.
BERMAN: Just very quickly, a migrant subway here in New York all the time. What are you -- you know, what can you do when you're on public transportation to protect yourself?
MILLER: In this case, nothing. I mean, there was nothing that she didn't observe or didn't notice. I watched the entire video of all of the time before she gets on the train. He's talking to himself. He's moving around. Clearly, there's something going on with him that was building up.
But in this mental illness, you know, when we asked the sister, you talk to him after the murder, what did he say? And he said, I did it because she was reading my mind. So this was someone who had a violent past, had been in jail, but definitely needed to be in some kind of treatment after jail and wasn't getting that.
BERMAN: Awful, awful story.
John Miller, thank you very much. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:55]
BERMAN: Listeners of Howard Stern were stunned when they tuned into his radio show on SiriusXM this morning and believed he had been suddenly replaced.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
COHEN: I know that you're expecting a big announcement from Howard, and this is actually not how things were meant to go. There's been a lot of talk about what's going to happen with Howard. Is he fired? I don't know how much I'm allowed to say, except that he's not here and I am.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BERMAN: The speculation had been going for weeks, fueled in part by Stern himself, that he could be on his way out. Then about 10 minutes later, the big reveal, it was all a hoax.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
HOWARD STERN, HOST, THE HOWARD STERN SHOW: What pisses me off is now I can't leave. I was -- I've been thinking about retiring. Now I can't, because then they'll say I got pushed out. Here's the truth. SiriusXM and my team have been talking about how we go forward in the future.
And by the way, I'm absolutely flattered that anybody even cares whether I resign. So, I mean, in a way, it was confirmation that I matter.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BERMAN: All right, CNN Chief Data Analyst Harry Enten is here with us now. Elaborate hoax. Andy Cohen goes in there. There's that big thing. Were you fooled?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I'm not bababooied that easily, John Berman. And I will just say I also think that Andy Cohen deserves an Oscar for his performance because I could see how many people were fooled. And many major media organizations were fooled.
Variety was fooled. CNBC was fooled. The Independent was fooled. The Associated Press, the Grand Associated Press, they were all fooled. But Harry Enten, he is no fool. I was not fooled.
BERMAN: I listened to bootleg Howard Stern radio tapes in Massachusetts before he was broadcast there. This is when he was still on terrestrial radio. When he signed with SiriusXM, it was like a giant deal. What did he do for them?
ENTEN: Yes, he basically put Sirius on the map before he signed up -- before the announcement came. They were in the hundreds of thousands in terms of subscribers. Look at this. After one year after moving, get that, 6 million. You don't have to be a mathematical genius to see that that is big growth. The bottom line is he really put them on the map.
BERMAN: You know, I said SiriusXM. Of course, when he signed, it was just Sirius.
ENTEN: It was Sirius.
BERMAN: Now it is SiriusXM. It's been like a bunch of years since they merged. How are they doing?
ENTEN: Yes. How are they doing? Look, they're doing significantly better than when Howard Stern first came on the air. But there's definitely been somewhat of a decline over the last few years in terms of coming down from their peak. You know, we're talking about 33 million subscribers, paid subscribers, compared to 35 million a few years ago.
So, look, they're struggling like a lot of other people in this streaming era. But look, Howard Stern put them on the map, and I bet Howard Stern stays. But we'll have to wait and see.
BERMAN: Harry Enten, if he's the king of all media, you're the czar, the emperor of all media.
ENTEN: Thank you, sir.
BERMAN: Great to have you here.
ENTEN: Great to have you.
BERMAN: The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.
