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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Charlie Kirk Shooting Suspect To Appear In Court Tomorrow; FBI Director: Shooting Suspect Wrote Note Saying If He Had "Opportunity" To Take out Kirk And Was "Going To Take It"; Stephen Miller: White House Will Be Going After Leftist "Terror" Networks; Trump Blames The "Radical Left" For Division After Charlie Kirk Assassination; 3 Killed In Second Strike By U.S. Military Against Alleged "Narcoterrorists" In International Waters; NYT: In Two Multi-Billion Dollar Deals The UAE Got Advanced AI Chips; Trump Team Got Crypto Riches; Honoring Harper Moyski; Survivor Of Minneapolis Church Shooting Speaks Out. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 15, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes, all right, well, Ellen I really appreciate your time and thank you very much.
ELLEN BLAIN, ATTORNEY FOR MAURENE COMEY: Thank you.
BURNETT: Ellen as I said -- a lawyer for Maurene Comey and as we've been watching that story ever since July 16th, wondering if we were going to find out what would happen. And now perhaps we actually will. Thanks so much to all of you for joining us. AC360 begins right now.
[20:00:17]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, new evidence in the murder of Charlie Kirk and new reporting that his alleged killer may have confessed online.
Also tonight, a blockbuster investigation on a deal involving the Trump and Steve Witkoff family crypto firm in the United Arab Emirates by "The New York Times" and one of the reporters behind it joins us live.
And, the administration says its carried out its second deadly strike, targeting what it says was a drug running boat from Venezuela. The question now, is that true and was it lawful?
Good evening, thanks for joining us. The man charged with murdering Charlie Kirk makes his first court appearance tomorrow. Tonight, "The Washington Post" is reporting that Tyler Robinson appeared to confess online in a group chat shortly before turning himself in. "The Post," citing two people familiar with the chat and screenshots they obtained, says that Robinson told the chat, "Hey guys, I have bad news for you all. It was me at UVU yesterday. I'm sorry for all of this."
Also today, FBI Director Kash Patel said there's physical evidence tying Robinson to a pair of items, one found with the rifle and another on the rooftop from where Kirk was apparently shot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, U.S. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: I can report today that the DNA hits from the towel that was wrapped around the firearm and the DNA on the screwdriver are positively processed for the suspect in custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, in addition, Director Patel said the suspect left what he called a note prior to the shooting, saying if he had the "opportunity to take out Kirk, I'm going to take it." Patel also used the term text message exchange to describe the writing, but did not share the entirety of it.
As for the suspect and his motivations, he's not cooperating with authorities. That's according to Utah's governor, who suggested the dark web and online gamer culture may have played a role.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Clearly, there was a there was a lot of gaming going on. Friends that have confirmed that there was kind of that that deep, dark internet that Reddit culture and these other dark places of the internet where this person was going deep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Late today, the President weighed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It looks like he was radicalized over the internet, and its radicalized on the left. He's a left, a lot of problems with the left and they get protected and they shouldn't be protected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It wasn't all he said on the subject of the left today or recently, nor his close advisors, for that matter. And we'll talk more about that a bit later in the program. Some of it was set on Charlie Kirk's podcast, which Vice-President Vance hosted today from the White House, along with other members of the administration, most notably deputy chief-of-staff Stephen Miller, who used the appearance to promise to carry out what he said was Kirk's last message to him, namely, to "Go after left-wing organizations that are promoting violence in this country." Those were his words.
Even without that, passions in Washington appear to be running especially high today. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene posted this online reads in part: "... they hate us, they assassinated our nice guy who actually talked to them peacefully, debating ideas. Then millions on the left celebrated and made it clear they want all of us dead."
She went on to say, "To be honest, I want a peaceful national divorce. Our country is too far gone and too far divided, and it's no longer safe for any of us."
A lot to get to in this hour. For more on the investigation, I want to start with CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera in Orem, Utah. So what more do we know about this "Washington Post" report on the alleged confession?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you mentioned there the line of this text on Discord to group chat saying, "Hey guys, I have some bad news for you all. It was me at UVU yesterday. I'm sorry for all of this." He then also went on to say that he would be turning himself in, and then thanked those in the group chat for all the good times and the laughs. It doesn't appear that anyone responded. According to "The Washington Post" report.
But, Anderson, what's interesting is that came about two hours before he was taken into custody, and that would be just about the time where investigators and authorities here were releasing the video footage of the suspect running across the rooftop of the building here at the UVU campus and releasing new images.
And it was clear at that time that they had no idea who the shooter might be or where he might be. But already, the beginning of the unraveling of this manhunt was beginning because within two hours, through a family friend, he would be alerted to law enforcement and he would be arrested around 10:00.
So the timing of this new reporting is also quite fascinating.
COOPER: And what's expected at tomorrow's court hearing?
LAVANDERA: It will be a brief hearing. This will be -- it will come after prosecutors here in Utah file the formal criminal charges against the 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, which will likely include aggravated murder. Authorities here already saying that they will pursue the death penalty. A.nd after that happens, it will be a brief court appearance.
Robinson will actually not be taken from the jail to the courthouse. All of this will happen virtually, but it will be a quick hearing. If he needs an attorney, he will be appointed one and then that will begin the real legal process. And state authorities here are saying that after this is done, there could be even more information released in court documents about what they've learned in the investigation so far.
[20:05:34]
COOPER: Yes, Ed Lavandera. Thanks.
I want to bring in our law enforcement panel. Before we do, just a quick note on Stephen Miller's vow to, "Go after left-wing organizations that are promoting violence in this country." We do not yet fully know the suspects place on the political spectrum. The governor of Utah indicated was left. And in any event, the assumption that political violence is chiefly the province of the left is not actually factually correct. At least according to the libertarian and right leaning Cato Institute, which looked at the numbers dating from now back to 1975, terrorists inspired by Islamist ideology responsible for 87 percent of deaths, largely the numbers from 9/11, have a lot of that is behind that.
Right wingers, which they define as being motivated by White supremacy, anti-abortion beliefs, involuntary celibate, and others, they are second, at 11 percent left wingers, two percent or more than five times fewer. They define those killers as motivated by Black nationalism, anti-police sentiment, communism, socialism, animal rights, environmentalism, anti-White ideologies, and other beliefs. Perspective now from CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller is with me. He's formerly with the NYPD and FBI.
Also here, CNN law enforcement analyst and former Secret Service agent, Jonathan Wackrow.
John, first of all, how significant is this alleged confession that we've heard about?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. Well, its hugely significant in and of itself. But when you put it together with what Director Patel says is DNA on the towel, that the gun is wrapped in, statements that were made to his father that were repeated to law enforcement, statements that were made to the friend who arranged the surrender to the Sheriff's Department, followed by the statements he made allegedly in this Discord chat room to his gamer buddies, some of whom go back to high school with him, which is Ed reported.
It's not just the I have some bad news for you. I was the guy at UVU, but he goes on to describe how my father confronted me and I told him and he brought in his friend. And, you know, basically that they're coming to get me, so, in totality, when you put it together with the other evidence that we know of, which doesn't count what we don't, that's a lot.
COOPER: It's interesting, I was looking online at a lot of sort of, you know, conspiracy people saying, look, there were people in the crowd making symbols and who seem to know the direction of the shooter. There's no evidence, according to law enforcement thus far, that anybody else was involved with this. How quickly can they make that assessment for sure?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, listen, I think they're working as quickly as possible to try to make that assessment. But, you know, to the commissioner's point, we don't know what the investigators have right now. A lot of this may come out tomorrow as they present, you know, items of evidentiary value into the court at this initial hearing. But, you know, to your point, like where does it start and stop?
This individual was influenced by somebody. And I think it's fair to say that, you know, an individual doesn't do this by themselves. They don't foster this level of hate, this level of animus towards somebody to the point where I'm going to go kill them.
There is there is an influence here somewhere and whether it's online in these Discord chats with someone probing in, and prodding them to commit this crime, does it mean that they're, you know, part of a conspiracy theory? Yes or no? Too early to tell.
COOPER: You think he might have revealed this to somebody else online?
WACKROW: Well, we know that there were some concerning communications beforehand. And research shows that 75 percent of the time in these targeted attacks, an attacker will actually telegraph what they're going to do. We know that that exists.
Now, the investigators have to go back and assess how far back do those conversations go? How long was he iterating and having these violent ideations? And was that fostered by another group?
COOPER: And John, I mean, according to Patel, the FBI Director, he wrote a note in which he indicated he was going to make an effort to kill Charlie Kirk.
MILLER: Right, I mean, according to Patel, I have the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk. What's interesting about this is, you know, this is a recovery made by the FBI's CART team, the Computer Analysis Response Team, you know, that has the ability to dig in past items that have been deleted into the hard drive and if they haven't been written over by other data to recover them. So, this was something that the alleged shooter never wanted anyone to see.
COOPER: And John, when you hear Stephen Miller saying, you know, this is left wing, that, you know, the focus now is left wing extremists, left-wing terrorists. Traditionally, what has, I mean, I saw that -- we saw that Cato analysis. They even have analysis from 2020 on that also shows similar numbers. What does law enforcement -- I mean, I remember the FBI years ago saying domestic extremism was number one priority, and it was largely on the right, although left was an issue as well.
[20:10:27]
MILLER: So, I mean, what you see is, you know, the right leaning Cato Institute and, you know, the more liberal, I guess would be a perception anti-defamation league come up with the same number. Cato said 87, the ADL said 86 percent. But that's, you know, when you're going looking at these active shooter things, go back to the Top's Supermarket in Buffalo.
You know, you can go back to the White supremacist incidents in places like El Paso, the mall in Allen, Texas.
COOPER: These numbers relate to killings, actual killings, as opposed to people who were wounded.
MILLER: Right, and in some of these cases, you have both. I like what another elected official said today, which is we've got to stop thinking about right wing radicals and left wing radicals. What we have is radicals.
And I say that because in my own experience in going through multiple terrorism cases, not just in New York, but across the country, when you peel back these motives, you see people started as left, shifted right, went to the middle. They have this, what we call the salad bar of grievances. A lot of this has nothing to do with the actual issue, but is people trying to rewrite their life story by saying, I'm going to strike out and do something bold that I will be known for, and the politics is secondary. I think we should be going after the violent radicals.
COOPER: You were with the Secret Service, is that your assessment as well?
WACKROW: Absolutely and to take it one step further, its formulaic, right. You know, it's not left or right. It's somebody that has this grievance that's fueled by a hate. And it doesn't matter if its left or right. And then they go through these ideations of violence. Then they go through these planning phases of, I'm going to kill. They're influenced by others to take that action. They rehearse that action, then they go out and kill. It's very formulaic and unfortunately, law enforcement knows this. And I think that, you know, as we get caught up in the media, left and right, right wing, left wing, you know, that's noise.
Right now law enforcement has to, you know, stop the radicals, stop the pathway to violence, stop this assassination culture right now. And, you know, put an end to it. But the more that we put labels on it, the more divided we get as a country.
COOPER: Jonathan Wackrow, thank you, John Miller as well.
It's no surprise that Vice-President JD Vance hosted Charlie Kirk's podcast today. They were very close friends last Thursday, as Vance escorted Charlie Kirk's casket onto Air Force Two in Utah, bringing his remains back to his home state of Arizona. More tonight on their relationship from CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
J.D. VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: When you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out and hell, call their employer. We don't believe in political violence, but we do believe in civility.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Vice- President J.D. Vance bristled as he filled in on the late Charlie Kirk's podcast and he acknowledged what many D.C. insiders already knew.
VANCE: I, James J.D. Vance --
FOREMAN (voice over): Kirk, was key to putting Vance in the White House.
CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: Join me in welcoming the next Vice-President of the United States, J.D. Vance.
FOREMAN (voice over): Indeed, since the two met in 2017, they had forged a nearly perfect political friendship, ginning up opportunities and support for each other at every turn.
KIRK: The state is actually becoming more Republican, not more Democrat.
FOREMAN (voice over): They had much in common. Both had young families. Both relied on a religious base. Both were once sharp skeptics of Donald Trump.
VANCE: I'm a never Trump guy. I never liked him.
Are you a racist? Do you hate Mexicans? The media calls us racist for wanting to build Trump's wall.
FOREMAN (voice over): And both threw hard elbows in the culture wars.
KIRK: Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target White people. That's a fact.
FOREMAN (voice over): On immigration, so-called wokeness, parental rights and more, the two moved in lockstep, culminating in Kirk connecting Vance to his friend Donald Trump, Jr. just as Team Trump was seeking a 2024 running mate.
DONALD TRUMP, JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: I think it's an incredible pick. I think he's an incredible guy with an amazing story, both in business and in life, and I think it's just going to be an incredible person to help unify this country.
FOREMAN (voice over): Perhaps it is no wonder, then, that before she thanked President Trump.
ERIKA KIRK, WIFE OF CHARLIE KIRK: I want to thank my husband's dear friend, Vice-President Vance.
FOREMAN (voice over): The slain pundits widow, Erika Kirk, praised Vance and his wife Usha for escorting her husband's body back to Arizona.
E. KIRK: You guys honored my husband so well, bringing him home. You both are tremendous.
FOREMAN (voice over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Coming up next, more on how the administration plans to channel the outcry over Charlie Kirk's killing.
[20:15:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY CHIEF-OF-STAFF FOR POLICY AND HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: We are going to channel all of the anger that we have over the organized campaign that led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks. COOPER: Later, my conversation with a very brave young man, a 13-year-
old badly wounded in the mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis, shot in the stomach twice. He still risked his life to save another student.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We mentioned at the top Vice-President Vance today hosting what would have been Charlie Kirk's Monday edition of the podcast. He did it from The White House, which was no less remarkable than these images of it being piped into the White House briefing room.
More noteworthy than that, though, was the platform given for members of the administration to weigh in on Kirk's murder and threatened government action against far-left groups that they said funded and facilitated violence. Here's the President's top policy advisor, Stephen Miller.
[20:20:15]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: The last message that Charlie sent me was, I think it was just the day before we lost him, which was that we needed to have an organized strategy to go after the left wing organizations that are promoting violence in this country. And I will write those words on my heart, and I will carry them out.
And we are going to channel all of the anger that we have over the organized campaign that led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks.
So, the organized doxing campaigns, the organized riots, the organized street violence, the organized campaigns of dehumanization, vilification, posting peoples addresses, combining that with messaging that's designed to incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement.
And with God as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, homeland security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie's name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Miller made similar threats over the weekend and yesterday, when asked which groups were being looked at. Here's what the President said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, the problem is on the left. If you look at the problem, the problem is on the left. It's not on the right, like some people like to say on the right. The problem we have is on the left. And when you look at the agitators, the you look at the scum that speaks so badly of our country, the American flag burnings all over the place. That's the left, that's not the right.
REPORTER: You plan on investigating?
TRUMP: We'll see. We'll be announcing they're already under investigation.
REPORTER; Have you decided --
TRUMP: They're already under major investigation. A lot of the people that you would traditionally say are on the left.
REPORTER: They're already under investigation?
TRUMP: Already under investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now is journalist and Lift Our Voices co-founder Gretchen Carlson. Also CNN political commentator. Alyssa Farah Griffin and David Urban. I also want to play something that the President said in the Oval Office when asked about why he's only focusing on conservative victims of political violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Given the killing of Melissa Hortman, the attack on Paul Pelosi, the attack on Gabby Giffords, the attack on the Pennsylvania Governor's Mansion. Why make the case that violence is only on one side? It seems to be taking --
TRUMP: I didn't say it's on one side, but I say the radical left causes tremendous violence, and they seem to do it in a bigger way. But the radical left really has caused a lot of problems for this country. I really think they hate our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm wondering what you make of this. I mean, again, you know, Cato Institute has put out a study, it just doesn't -- clear that out.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, the facts speak for themselves. We could run through the political violence, starting from Steve Scalise's shooting at the congressional baseball game onward, where it's pretty evenly split right and left, who the victims are. And I think that it's a moment. Charlie Kirk's murder was terrible. It was a dark day for America. It's an attack on what it means to be an American, to be out there in the public square debating ideas, and to use this moment to not try to unify and take down the temperature.
The way the governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, has -- is a real missed opportunity for this White House. The reality is, is the way if they want to honor the legacy that Charlie Kirk left behind, go debate ideas, do not silence free speech, do not be targeting and doxing people, but actually win in the battlefield of ideas. And this seems like a dark path to be going down.
COOPER: David. I mean, is there a vast -- I don't have Stephen Miller's exact phrasing, but, you know, a vast domestic terror network by the left. And that's the biggest threat in the United States today.
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, you know, Anderson, I don't believe that to be the case. However, I'll just cite two studies that do kind of point to some big problems. Dr. Robert Pape of the University of Chicago, was on so recently, he published an op-ed in "The New York Times" in June of this past year saying that, you know, there's a -- it's kind of prescient saying there's going to be some big looming problem of violence in America because of hatred and the statistics he cited, I just want to read this because I don't want to get it wrong, his survey, and he's been doing this since 2021, recorded that said, roughly 40 percent, 39-point some percent of Democrats supported the use of force to remove Donald Trump from the presidency.
And when he looked at the crosstabs, he said 55 percent of that, 40 percent supported assassination of Donald Trump. Similarly, Rutgers University Social Perception Lab study found that 55 percent of self- described leftists. This is out of April of this year, which said 55 percent would support assassination of Donald Trump as a legitimate means to remove him.
So, there is something going on, right? This isn't totally baked up and made up. If you look at outside on the front street in front of, you know, how whether it's the Justice Brett Kavanaugh's house, there were, you know, they caught a guy outside there with a rifle outside of Stephen Miller's house. People were writing things, terrifying his kids. You heard the Vice-President saying how his kids got shouted down at Hershey Park. So, there is something specifically targeting kind of people on the right.
If you remember, Alyssa, your colleague and my friend, Sarah Huckabee- Sanders went to a restaurant where she was shouted out, wasn't allowed to dine, and was forced out. And you had Maxine Waters saying, don't give these Trumpers any quarter.
[20:25:47]
COOPER: But, David, David -- there are, I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene just put out a statement talking about there should be a divorce in this country and --
URBAN: That's just crazy, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, I know, but you can say these others are crazy, too. I mean, I know I don't believe anybody should be shouted down. I mean, you know, I get shouted down all the time, it's not pleasant.
URBAN: Yes, the notion that pain is a debt that needs to be repaid in the same currency, right, is fallacious. We can't just an eye for an eye, right, we'll all be blind in the United States, if that's how you could see it. COOPER: But that's not the message, I mean Gretchen, this is not the
message. The, I mean, to Alyssa's point, this is an opportunity for the White House. If they were so inclined to sort of unify people. This is a message of a launch of -- according to Stephen Miller, some sort of major launch against unnamed domestic terror groups, which, again, are all unnamed at this point.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-FOUNDER, "LIFT OUR VOICES":6 I'm going to speak, I think for the majority of Americans right now, with complete exasperation, because the majority of Americans are somewhere in the middle on this entire thing. They think last week was a travesty, but at the same time, they're not far left and they're not far right, and they just want to have some sense of semblance in this country.
And I will speak for all the parents out there tonight, because I'm one of them. I have young adult children. What do we tell them when they reached out to me Wednesday after this shooting, I don't even really know what to tell them because we only live in our silos and I will speak for the frustration of 90 percent of us who want to find common ground and want to get to the bottom of this with compromise.
So, let's start focusing on those people who are wanting to find peace instead of focusing on the far left and the far right. There are gazillions of us in the middle who want to be a shining example for our children, or we won't have a country that you and I and Alyssa and David grew up in.
I'm sorry for being exasperated tonight, but that is where the majority of people are standing today.
URBAN: Yes and Gretchen, I agree with you. The problem is, and you know, the Utah governor coined this phrase now with this with conflict entrepreneurs, right? They -- Gretchen's voice, my voice, Alyssa's voice does not get amplified the same as the extreme voices do by the algorithms and by there is no economic benefit. There's no political benefit to modify the moderates.
COOPER: Yes -- there is a market benefit to not --
URBAN: So crazy, there's a market for crazy in America and until there isn't a market for crazy, we're not going to be able to do something. Gretchen, you and I can sit down and break bread with people we don't agree with. And we can have civil debates but if that goes in silence, then no one knows.
COOPER: Also, it is crazy --
CARLSON: But you know, it has to do with our leaders too, it has to do with our leaders. And if we don't have a good example from the top on down, the Utah governor is trying to do that. But we're not seeing that necessarily from the President. He's denying that this exists. I am from Minnesota, there were two people killed from Minnesota.
COOPER: This is what the President said about what happened in Minnesota, he was asked about it today. Let's just play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: In retrospect, given all of the moving ways that this White House has paid tribute to Charlie Kirk, do you think it would have been fitting to lower the flags to half-staff when Melissa Hortman, the Minnesota House Speaker who was gunned down by an assassin as well?
TRUMP: I'm not familiar, the who --
REPORTER: The Minnesota House Speaker, a Democrat, who was assassinated this summer.
TRUMP: Well, if the governor had asked me to do that, I would have done that. But the governor of Minnesota didn't ask me. I didn't -- I wouldn't have thought of that. But I would have if somebody had asked me.
People make requests for the lowering of the flag and oftentimes you have to say no, because it would be a lot of lowering, the flag would never be up. Had the governor of Minnesota asked me to do that, I would have done that gladly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Alyssa, what do you --
GRIFFIN: I think he genuinely was not recalling who that individual was. But I think that speaks to the silos that we live in.
COOPER: I mean he remembered Paul Pelosi, who he made fun of.
GRIFFIN: Yes, it is understandably wall-to-wall coverage that Charlie Kirk was assassinated and it shouldn't be, but it also shouldn't have disappeared from the headlines after just a couple of days that the House Speaker in Minnesota was gunned down, I actually spoke to a family member who was making the case that it feels like political violence is happening against the right, by the left, far more and I brought that up. They were completely unfamiliar that it had even happened.
And I think we need to remember we live in such a siloed media environment, and more and more people are getting money from these rage entrepreneurs or getting information from rage entrepreneurs and they're not even necessarily learning the cold, hard facts.
[20:30:37]
COOPER: It's so interesting to me on these social media sites, when -- if you're a rage entrepreneur, you have to capture the attention of the people flipping by in the first three seconds --
FARAH GRIFFIN: The wilder the phrase, the better (ph).
COOPER: And so the more you're wild and say something offensive or angry in the first three seconds, that's how it works. You look at these people, and it's all in the first three seconds. CARLSON: It speaks to the culture of where we are --
URBAN: Yes.
CARLSON: -- in our society.
COOPER: Yes. Gretchen, thank you. Alyssa Farah Griffin -- sorry, David, we've got to run. David Urban, thank you.
Up next, President Trump orders a second deadly military strike in a boat he says was carrying illegal drugs. Does he have the legal authority? A lot more than that.
And a multi-billion dollar deal involving a Mideastern country and the Trump family's crypto business raising ethical questions. We'll talk to the Times reporter who's on the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:54]
COOPER: The Trump administration announced today that they carried out a second deadly strike on what they described as a narcoterrorist boat killing three people. President Trump posted a video of the operation on social media, writing that the strike occurred while these confirmed narcoterrorists in Venezuela were in international waters transporting illegal narcotics, a deadly weapon poisoning Americans, headed to the U.S.
Monday's announcement came less than two weeks after a similar mission by the U.S. military killed 11 suspected drug traffickers in a boat allegedly tied to a Venezuelan drug cartel.
Joining me for more is Former Federal Prosecutor, CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. He's also the author of a new book just out now, "When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President from Nixon to Trump."
First of all, these strikes, are they legal?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think so, and I think the best way to understand that is, let's look at the letter that Donald Trump sent to Congress to justify the first strikes two weeks ago, and he said similar things today. Here's a couple things he says.
First, he says this is a designated foreign terrorist organization. Fine. But legally what that does is it gives the government powers to take certain law enforcement steps or to seek economic sanctions, not to use lethal military force.
The second thing he says is, well, this was military self-defense. But under the law governing that, you need an imminent threat to American lives. Someone is about to die. A drug boat hundreds of miles away I don't think is imminent enough. And third, he says this is a war posture, but it's not at all clear this is, a, an armed conflict with a foreign nation. COOPER: All right. I want to talk about the book, "When You Come at the King," obviously a great title.
HONIG: It's all about the DOJ and how they've gone after presidents, investigated presidents from Nixon to Trump. What stood out to you? Why write it?
HONIG: Well, I wanted to tell the story. First of all, thank you, Anderson. You're one of my first readers. I really appreciate you doing that.
I love the human stories here. Each one of these is like a drama playing out in real time. And I talked to 35 or so people who did these cases. One thing that stood out to me is the rules and the laws are so important, but the people are even more important.
And I'll tell you one thing that sticks in my mind --
COOPER: Well, we certainly saw that in the investigations of President Trump.
HONIG: Absolutely. I mean, you know, I talked to members of Trump's team. I talked to members of Joe Biden's team. He was investigated. Hunter Biden's team. Some of my favorite interviews are with the Watergate prosecutors now in their 70s, 80s.
And there's a scene early on that sticks with me where the Saturday night massacres happened. Special Counsel Archibald Cox has been fired. AG, Deputy AG have resigned. The prosecutors don't know whether they're still in business or whether they've been fired. They meet in Sunday morning in the office and Archibald Cox, who's just been fired, says, do not give him, Nixon, what he wants. You stay here and you finish the job.
COOPER: Given the immunity the Supreme Court has given Trump, do you think there will be ever investigations again?
HONIG: I think we have to be realistic about where we are now in Trump 2.0. And I argue in the book, what is happening now is different in kind from any president. And it goes back to Ulysses S. Grant, through Watergate, through Iran-Contra, through Bill Clinton, through Trump 1.0, through Biden.
What's happening now is fundamentally different because Trump has made clear there will be no investigation of his --
COOPER: Yes.
HONIG: -- administration and he will use the powers of DOJ to pursue retribution. And I argue whoever comes next in that Oval Office needs to bring this back. There's a way to fix it, but it's too important to let it go.
COOPER: Eli Honig, the book is, "When You Come at the King," out now.
HONIG: Thank you. COOPER: Congratulations.
HONIG: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Really a great read.
Just ahead, ethical questions being raised tonight about a multi- billion dollar deal between the UAE and the Trump family's cryptocurrency business.
Also, a brave 13-year-old student wounded in the Minneapolis Catholic School shooting tells us how he survived and helped save another boy.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
ENDRE GUNTER, SHOT TWICE DURING MN SCHOOL SHOOTING: Underneath the pew, just praying that he wouldn't come inside and, like, and finish -- like, go inside and finish the -- like, finish all of us off. Just praying, praying, praying.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:04]
COOPER: Tonight we're learning about two multi-billion dollar deals involving the Trump White House. The ruling family of the UAE, the United Arab Emirates, and World Liberty Financial, a cryptocurrency business co-founded by the Trump family and the family of Steve Witkoff, a close confidant of the President who is also his Mideast envoy.
The New York Times reports that in one deal, an Emirati investment firm deposited $2 billion in World Liberty Financial. Shortly after, the administration granted the UAE access to advanced AI chips. Now, the Times says, quote, "While there's no evidence that one deal was explicitly offered in return for the other, the confluence of the two agreements in itself is extraordinary -- or is itself extraordinary. Taken together, they blurred the lines between personal and government business and raised questions about whether U.S. interests were served."
Eric Lipton is a Times Investigative Reporter. He joins us now. It's an extraordinary investigation here. What possible reason would the UAE government have to use this Trump-Witkoff-linked cryptocurrency in a $2 billion transaction other than to curry favor with the President while doing this other deal?
[20:45:06]
ERIC LIPTON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: We ask the same question of G42 and MGX, which is the UAE-backed sovereign wealth fund, you know, finance organization, why they picked World Liberty Financial. And they said, well, we just looked at the available cryptocurrency companies and this seemed like the right fit. But what they didn't mention is that, you know, MGX, the company that gave the $2 billion, one of their board members is Marty Edelman, who's been a longtime friend of Steve Witkoff's and was -- a real estate lawyer that worked with him on some transactions in New York City. And that this deal was going to bring enormous profits to Steve Witkoff and to President Trump.
At the same time as the United Arab Emirates was looking for access to these AI chips, the most -- one of the most important inventions in human history. They wanted to build -- they want to turn themselves into a world center of data and artificial intelligence. They want to transform themselves from an oil-based, you know, economy to a data and artificial intelligence-based economy, and they needed access to these chips.
So just around the same time, they give $2 billion to the Witkoffs and the Trumps. And we examined that those two transactions, and what we found is that there were interconnections between those two transactions that were deeper than has been publicly known.
COOPER: What response did you get from the White House?
LIPTON: The White House, you know, said that they were distinct actions, that, you know, one was a government action giving these AI chips and the second was a private transaction. They said that, you know, when we asked them whether or not there appeared to be some evidence that Steve Witkoff may have violated, you know, federal ethics standards, what they said was that there was an ethics, you know, that his compliance with ethics was being reviewed by the White House counsel.
And they said that he was in the process still of divesting in his stake in World Liberty Financial. I mean, the White House was very responsive. They engaged in a series -- several weeks' worth of back- and-forth questions. But, you know, they feel as if this was legitimate actions on two different transactions.
COOPER: I mean, there are many concerns that there are going to be AI data centers by some companies in the UAE, as I understand it, and there's real concern about even that, about the potential, you know, security issues that may be involved with that.
LIPTON: Yes, I mean, this is not only a discussion of the profits that are going to the Trump family and the UAE's desire to build itself into a tech capital. This is also concern by a number of people with inside the Trump administration itself that United Arab Emirates has really close ties with China and that China potentially could get access to these advanced AI chips, and they could even use them for their own, you know, desires to build advanced weapons systems and other military applications.
So the United States has long been concerned about the UAE, and it's close -- it does military exercises with China. It has a lot of technology sharing with China. So this is not only -- this is -- the reason that we spent so much time digging into this is this is not only a matter of potentially Trump and others enriching themselves. This has real national security and economic implications for the future of the United States.
COOPER: And back in May, when the Qatari government gifted, you know, the president of Boeing 740 -- 747 worth estimated several hundred million dollars, there was a lot of talk about what the Qataris would expect in return. I mean, do you sense a trend here in terms of how certain foreign powers might try to deal with President Trump? I mean, it seems like this is sending a message potentially of how you can do other deals.
LIPTON: I think that the way that they operate in the Middle East is that there's exchanging of benefits and of relationships. And, you know, there's not a dividing line between the interests of the royal family and the interests of their economy. This is a common way. You do favors for one party, and they do favors for you.
It's not necessarily a quid pro quo, but this isn't the way that things typically operate in the United States. There's usually not a financial relationship in the American presidency between a foreign policy action, an economic action, and the financial interests of the president and his advisers.
But that's the way the world works in the Middle East among the royal family, because there is no division between their economic interests and the way that they operate.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, this would have been unthinkable in any other administration, and now it just seems part of -- it's become normalized.
Eric Lipton, it's a fascinating investigation with the New York Times. Thank you.
Coming up, my conversation with incredibly brave 13-year-old survivor of the Minneapolis church shooting, shot twice, still had the courage to help save another student. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:18]
COOPER: It was less than three weeks ago, two children were shot to death in an Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis. Yesterday, 10-year-old Harper Moyski was honored by her family and community. There were also 21 people injured by gunfire that day, including a 13- year-old boy named Endre Gunter who was shot twice in the stomach.
He's risked his life, though, to help another child. He said he wanted to speak out because he thought people might listen. I spoke to Andre and his mom last week about that day.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: So, Endre, first of all, I'm so glad to be talking to you and to your mom today. How are you feeling?
E. GUNTER: I'm feeling pretty good. I'm just want to, you know, get out like what I want to say out of my chest.
[20:55:00]
COOPER: Can you talk about what you remember from that day? When did you realize something terrible was happening?
E. GUNTER: Yes. When I realized like something bad was happening was when because like at first, like, it was a normal match. We, like, we have these little books that we read from, and we like -- we like sing. And we just got done singing. We ended up sitting down.
And then, by, like, the first bang, I saw somebody, like, fall over. And then, like, they sort of like, they like -- they were laying down. And then I got -- and then two more shots went out, then I got hit. And that's when I knew something like bad was happening. And then that's when I went underneath like the little chairs.
COOPER: Did you know you had been shot?
E. GUNTER: Kind of, yes. Like, because like I like kind of slid back, but I wasn't feeling no pain. Like, when I was underneath the pew, a friend of mine behind me asked me, are you shot? I said, I didn't really know. I had to check, like dig underneath my shirt, and then pull out my hand. I saw blood, and that's when I really like realized I was shot.
COOPER: What happened then?
E. GUNTER: Then, I was just underneath the pew, just praying that he wouldn't come inside and like and finish like, go inside and finish of -- like, finish all of us off. Just praying, praying, praying.
COOPER: And were more shots going off at that time? What were you hearing?
E. GUNTER: Yes, yes. I just was laying underneath the pew, just hearing bang, bang, bang, and just shots go off.
COOPER: I understand there was also -- there was a six-year-old boy sitting in a pew near you. What was he doing?
E. GUNTER: He was like kind of in shock, because right when I got underneath, he was kind of in shock, and I just saw him sitting there. And then I chatted like, I couldn't reach him, but I like stuck my hand out and got him -- tried to get him underneath like the pew.
COOPER: And so then, were you with him -- were you two together on the floor?
E. GUNTER: Kind of, yes. I was like in like a pew right here. He was right here, so we were facing each other. Because there were like -- the one that we were sitting on, that's when he got underneath, and I went on the one like in front of me. I went underneath that one.
COOPER: Danielle, I understand that boy's mother sent you a letter. DANIELLE GUNTER, MOTHER OF MN SCHOOL SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Yes, she communicated with my husband and I that she felt that her -- my son had helped with saving her son and that he was pretty upset, I think, Endre? You told that he was -- you told us that he was screaming and very upset --
E. GUNTER: Yes.
D. GUNTER: -- and that you kept telling him that he's going to be OK?
E. GUNTER: Yes.
D. GUNTER: And that really meant a lot to his parents.
E. GUNTER: Yes, because he was screaming a lot, and I just kept on saying, he's going to be OK, everything's going to be OK. And he was still crying, but it got quieter.
COOPER: It's amazing to me, Endre, that, I mean, you were shot and you were still able to not only help this little boy but console him while this was all happening.
E. GUNTER: Yes, because I, like, I wasn't really feeling no pain. I just feel like -- I feel like any older buddy would do the same like same thing I did. It's just making sure that he's OK.
COOPER: I don't know of a lot of people, and I'm talking about adults, who, after being shot and laying on a floor and knowing that there's a shooter, would not only risk themselves to help somebody else get to safety but would also then be consoling them during this time. The presence of mind to do that, do you know how extraordinary that is, how extraordinary what you did is?
E. GUNTER: Yes, I just felt like I just saw him like in shock knowing that he's a lot younger than me. I felt like -- I didn't know that he would, like -- I wasn't like -- I was like, is he going to get down or not? Like, so I just thought, my first thing, I was like, I've got to help him get down to make sure that he's OK.
COOPER: Wow. And you were rushed to the hospital, you were rushed into surgery. I understand you spoke with the surgeon before he operated on you. Do you remember what you said to him?
E. GUNTER: Yes, I was just saying, can we do a quick prayer? Because I really did not believe that I was going to make it. So I just wanted to pray, because I know if it's in God's hand, I have a higher opportunity than making it.
COOPER: And I know you wanted to come and speak because you told your mom you think people will listen to you right now. Can you just talk about that a little bit? What made you want to speak publicly?
E. GUNTER: Yes, I wanted to go out and speak because I believe that we need, like, trained securities in schools to protect, like, kids, protect all of us so this doesn't happen in more schools. I believe we need, like, security guards in schools. COOPER: Well, I'm glad, I mean, things have worked out as well as they can so far. And Endre, it's such an honor to talk to you, and Danielle, you as well. Thank you.
D. GUNTER: Yes, Thank you so much.
E. GUNTER: Yes. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: A brave young man.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
