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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Alleged Kirk Assassin Faces Murder Charge and Death Penalty; A.G. Bondi Says Government Will Target Those Who Use Hate Speech; FBI Director Spars With Democrats In Fiery Senate Hearing; Hollywood Legend Robert Redford Dies At 89; Trump Makes Unprecedented Second State Visit To U.K.; Four Arrested After Activists Project Trump- Epstein Images Onto Windsor Castle. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 16, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): -- 2018's the old man and the gun, that he welcomed the movement.
ROBERT REDFORD, AMERICAN ACTOR AND FILMMAKER: The fact that women now have a voice that's going to be heard and they're going to raise it louder and louder, I hope, because they've been pushed aside for so long.
WAGMEISTER (voice over): Though he left the limelight, Redford's legacy stands at the top of Hollywood. An artist, advocate, an innovator for multiple generations.
REDFORD: When you're being raised, you want to make the most of your life and I guess that's what I decided, I want to make the most of what I've been given.
WAGMEISTER (voice over): Elizabeth Wagmeister, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And thanks Elizabeth, and to all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:37]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, Charlie Kirk's alleged killer appears in court as prosecutors lay out new details about the evidence against him and decide to seek the death penalty.
Also tonight, does the administration's campaign against what they say are the far left groups that radicalized Kirk's killer actually amount to targeting the kind of free speech that Kirk himself championed?
And a champion for free expression dies. We'll remember actor, director, environmentalist Robert Redford with Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward, the reporters he made larger than life in "All the President's Men." Good evening, thanks for joining us.
Tonight, we now know the charges against Charlie Kirk's alleged killer, as well as the key evidence against him and the death sentence he could face if convicted. We also heard him speak during his video conference court hearing late today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE TONY GRAF, PRESIDING JUDGE, CHARLIE KIRK CASE: Are we ready to proceed?
TYLER JAMES ROBINSON, SUSPECT IN THE KILLING OF CHARLIE KIRK: Yes, Your Honor.
GRAF: Calling Case 251403576. State of Utah versus Tyler James Robinson. Could you state your name?
ROBINSON: Tyler James Robinson.
GRAF: Thank you for being here, Mr. Robinson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the 22-year-old said nothing more. He showed no emotion and little outward expression as the charges were read: Aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm, two counts of obstruction of justice, two counts of witness tampering and the commission of a violent offense in the presence of a child.
The agreed murder charge is a capital offense, as Trial Judge Tony Graf explained.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAF: The defendant knowingly created a great risk of death to another individual other than Charlie Kirk and the defendant. Notice conviction of this offense may carry the death penalty or, pursuant to Utah Code 763-207.7, a mandatory term of imprisonment for life without parole or an indeterminate term of not less than 25 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: While the judge appointed an attorney to represent Robinson, he also granted a pretrial protective order for Charlie Kirk's widow and set the next court date for the 29th.
It capped a day that began with prosecutors sharing new information on the case, including a series of text messages between Robinson and his roommate, who, according to court documents, is transitioning from male to female and authorities say they are also romantically involved.
Now, prosecutors say these messages were sent after the shooting on September 10th, quoting now: "Drop what you're doing, look under my keyboard." Authorities say his partner found a note that Robinson had left and it
read, "I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it." More text messages now in response to that note, prosecutors referred to the partner as the roommate.
The roommate said, "What? You're joking, right?"
Robinson:" I'm still okay, my love, but am stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I've got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I'm sorry to involve you."
Robinsons roommate: "You weren't the one who did it, right?"
Robinson: "I am. I'm sorry."
The roommate: "I thought they caught the person."
Robinson: "No, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering."
Roommate: "Why?"
Robinson: "Why did I do it?"
Roommate: "Yes."
Robinson: "I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle on scene, I will have left no evidence going to attempt to retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it."
And then later, prosecutors say Robinson's partner asked, "How long have you been planning this?" Robinson: "A bit over a week, I believe. I can get close to it, but there's a squad car parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it."
Robinson according to prosecutors, later wrote, "Delete this exchange." Adding later, Robinson: "Don't talk to the media, please, don't take any interviews or make any comments. If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer and stay silent."
A lot to get to in the hour ahead. Starting us off tonight, CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera is at the UVU campus in Orem, Utah, where the killing took place. So, authorities seem confident they have this confession -- a confession. Is it clear to you what outstanding questions they may have tonight?
[20:05:12]
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to imagine how much more evidence they would to prove that Tyler Robinson was behind all of this. According to, you know, all of the text messages you've just been reading, there's also messages afterwards in a Discord chat that, according to the "The Washington Post" report that Robinson had sent a group on that chat, essentially saying that he has bad news, that he was the one who carried out the shooting at UVU yesterday.
And there's also, according to investigators, DNA evidence found on the rifle and a towel and screwdriver that was found in that wooded area by campus. But, you know, throughout all of this, Anderson, you look at the mindset of this suspect and Tyler Robinson in the moments -- in the minutes after the shooting, he was more concerned about retrieving the weapon, the weapon that he had left in the woods.
This is one of those texts that he sent his roommate, according to prosecutors here, "I'm worried what my old man would do if I didn't bring back grandpa's rifle. I worry about prince. I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring it with. I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find prints. How the eff will I explain losing it to my old man?"
So, this message apparently sent and sometime shortly after the shooting of Charlie Kirk and despite that horrific act, he was more concerned about being able to get back this family heirloom rifle, to get it back to his home in Southwest Utah.
COOPER: And when is he going to be in front of a judge again?
LAVANDERA: Well, he had his initial appearance today where he was told of his rights. Judge says later this month, I believe it was September 29th. He is expected to appear in court for what will be a preliminary hearing and that is where all the probable cause evidence will be presented, and a judge will determine if there's enough evidence to continue on.
He was also appointed a or will be in the process of getting a court appointed attorney. The judge today said that he's indigent and would qualify for a court appointed attorney, an attorney who will be able to handle and is capable of handling a death penalty case because prosecutors here in Utah insist that they will continue and have filed a motion to seek the death penalty in this case.
COOPER: Ed Lavandera, thanks very much.
Joining me now for more on the latest investigation, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, former federal prosecutor Danya Perry and retired FBI profiler and director of George Mason University's Forensic Science Program, Mary Ellen O'Toole.
Danya, we mentioned this text message, the suspect says some hate can't be negotiated. That certainly seems to point to motive.
DANYA PERRY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes. I mean, as a former federal and state prosecutor, you couldn't wish for better evidence than what Ed just laid out.
COOPER: It's a -- this is a huge amount of evidence. PERRY: It's a huge, I mean, it's a gift wrapped package tied up with a
bow. It's not just a confession. He said, I am, I'm sorry. You know, the person that did it and then he offered a motive. He did say, as Ed reported, you know, there's too much hate. And he also provided significant evidence of planning and then also of cover up, and as Ed said, there is not evidence of remorse there or of concern for the individual who was killed or for bystanders who might have been hurt, seemed that he was mostly concerned about getting out of it and of consequences within his family.
So, yes, from the prosecutor's perspective, I'm not surprised that this Utah State Attorney sought the death penalty. Certainly, there's a lot of focus, a lot of scrutiny, a lot of pressure and the facts, if ever there's an aggravated murder charge, the facts certainly point to it and evidence certainly lines up.
COOPER: And Mary Ellen, I mean, I'm wondering what you make of what we heard from the suspect today. I mean, obviously just said his name in the hearing. But in that text exchange with his partner, his roommate what stood out to you?
MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, RETIRED FBI PROFILER AND DIRECTOR OF GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY'S FORENSIC SCIENCE PROGRAM: Well, listening to his text and reading them, I kept going back to the phrase that you just referenced, which was hate cannot be negotiated out. Its' a weird statement to make. And as I read it and I went back over statements that I've reviewed over the years when I was still with the FBI, it's -- the way its stated, almost seems like he's saying -- and I had no choice because it could not be negotiated out.
So, I'm sure investigators are going to be looking at that. And what does that say that it certainly suggests to me that he was feeling somewhat desperate to address the situation in an extremely inappropriate and lethal way. And I think that's consistent with his personality, which is, seems to be almost devoid of any emotion, particularly for the victim.
[20:10:20]
He doesn't reference the victim. He doesn't talk about Charlie. He talks about his mom. He talks about his "old man" and how the father is going to be upset with him. So it's a very odd kind of an emotional expression of who he is. And that may be consistent with him, and I think we saw that today in court as well. There was no emotion. And yet, here's a young man facing the death penalty.
So, I think that emotional part of him is a big part of what motivated this. And what we are going to see in the courtroom and people are going to jump to a lot of conclusions. But there are a lot of people in this world who emotionally -- they don't manifest emotions like you and I do. They're very, very reserved and they're very shallow with their emotions, except to people that are extremely close to them.
COOPER: John, I mean, it's kind of stunning that he thought he was getting away with this. I mean, that he felt he had somehow because, I mean, I don't know if he didn't think that there were any cameras around. I mean, he did this in front of thousands of people with all of whom had cameras out. It seems incredibly naive to think that he could get away with this, and that he would live to be an old man who was never caught.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: You know, Anderson, it's fascinating because when you peel back all the things he did to evade capture, he wore the hat, he wore the sunglasses. When he passed the cameras, he put his head down so you couldn't get a clear shot of the face. He made his escape. He got rid of the gun in case he was stopped. He parked off campus, so on and so forth.
It is clear that he wanted to do this murder. He wanted to take this life, and he wanted to get away with it. But there's a "but" there and that is, he seemed to understand that might not be the case. Like so many of these offenders, he seemed to also anticipate the idea that he might be caught, and he seemed to go back and forth between wanting to get the credit for claiming responsibility for this in those chats with his friends, kind of toying with them, playing with them, admitting it to his roommate, confessing it to his father and parents. So, I think he was realistic about it.
If you remember Luigi Mangione and the assassination of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, he went to extraordinary lengths to be able to do that act and get away. And yet when he was captured, what did he have? He had the notebook with the manifesto on him. He had the murder weapon in the bag, allegedly. In other words, he was anticipating the idea he was going to get caught and he had basically the kit he used to commit the murder and the kit he was going to use to claim responsibility for it, if that day came. I see some parallels here.
COOPER: And, John, prosecutors were asked if the suspect's roommate with whom he was in a romantic relationship would face charges. They didn't answer. Is it clear what happens next to that person?
MILLER: So there's two questions there. Number one, what they have been clear about, Anderson, is that he's been cooperative from the beginning and what is clear from a legal sense is, he is a key witness in this prosecution. What is less clear, as we learned today in the court hearings and from the documents is that, the suspect admitted this to him a full, you know, set of hours before law enforcement had put it together, before his parents had confronted him, it appears.
So, there's going to be a question of why didn't he come forward with that information the minute he knew it? Of course, there's a myriad of potential answers, which is they were in a relationship. He may have been confused about what to do, but eventually that issue is going to come to the surface.
COOPER: Danya, what do you think about that? I mean, is it do you think it's likely because of that delay that this person could be charged?
PERRY: I'm sure everyone is under investigation. I know people that the defendant was in Discord chats with are potentially under investigation. I think there's going to be no stone left unturned. So it remains to be seen, exactly as you said, what the evidence shows. But I think everyone you know, in the ambit of this investigation, whoever spoke with the defendant in the days leading up to it, including his roommate, including people on his gaming chats --
[20:15:04]
COOPER: And that's certainly the word from the administration, just from a political standpoint of wanting to track down anybody, they feel may have --
PERRY: Everyone is under investigation.
COOPER: Yes, Danya Perry, thank you very much. John Miller, Mary Ellen O'Toole as well.
Coming up, the reaction by the Trump administration to Charlie Kirk's murder has critics concerned, they're turning tragedy into an attack on free speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything and that's across the aisle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later, the President and First Lady arrived for their Royal visit with King Charles at Windsor Castle. Demonstrators with a projector made sure they cannot escape the image of Jeffrey Epstein. We'll have more on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:12]
COOPER: Well, the killing of Charlie Kirk and Trump administration's reaction to it have brought the question of free speech to the forefront, especially the kind of expression that members of the administration have suggested led to Kirk's murder. Here's what Kirk himself said about that last year.
"Hate speech does not exist legally in America. There's ugly speech. There's gross speech, there's evil speech, and all of it is protected by the First Amendment. Keep America free."
Now contrast that with what the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, said on the subject just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: We will absolutely target you. Go after you. If you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything -- and that's across the aisle. I mean, look what happened, think about Josh Shapiro.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Today, after receiving criticism from all sides of the
political aisle online, she put it differently. Quoting now, "Hate speech that crosses the line into threats of violence is not protected by the First Amendment. It's a crime. For far too long, we've watched the radical left normalize threats, call for assassinations, and cheer on political violence, that era is over."
Now, the Supreme Court has held that such threats are what are known in legal language as true threats are not protected speech. We'll talk about it more with Supreme Court biographer Jeffrey Toobin in a moment.
That caveat doesn't come in a vacuum and the context for it, a promised administrative crackdown on left wing groups is clear from her mention of the radical left and this farther down in her posting, she said, "It is clear this violent rhetoric is designed to silence others from voicing conservative ideals."
Now, speaking today at New York Law School here in Manhattan, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor did not refer specifically to that or to any member of the administration. She did, however, seem to speak to the moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Every time I listen to a lawyer trained representative saying we should criminalize free speech in some way, I think to myself that law school failed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She also asked at one point, do we understand what the difference is between a king and President? Adding, I think if people understood these things from the beginning, they would be more informed as to what would be important in a democracy in terms of what people can or should not do. Again, she did not mention anyone by name.
But again, today the President expressed his inclinations on what he has certainly shown himself willing to do with respect to speech. Last night he filed a $15 billion lawsuit against "The New York Times" alleging defamation, accusing the times of being a, "virtual mouthpiece" for the Democratic Party.
And today, there was this with ABC's Jon Karl on the South Lawn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS: What do you make of Pam Bondi saying she is going to go after hate speech. Is that -- I mean, a lot of people, a lot of your allies say hate speech is free speech.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We should probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly. Its hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come after ABC. Well, ABC paid me $16 million recently for a form of hate speech.
Right? Your company paid me $16 million for a form of hate speech. So maybe they'll have to go after you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also today, new reporting that could speak to the current climate. It comes from the online publication 404 Media. Quoting from the lead: "The Department of Justice has removed a study showing that White Supremacist and far right violence 'continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism' in the United States."
Now the story goes on to say that the 2024 study conducted by the National Institute of Justice was available on the website until at least the 12th, two days after Charlie Kirk's murder, according to an archive of the page saved by the Wayback Machine.
A message on the page where the study used to be found on the Justice Department's website, reads in part that the DOJ "... is currently reviewing its websites and materials in accordance with recent executive orders and related guidance." It goes on to say, "During this review, some pages and publications will be unavailable. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause."
Perspective now from former federal prosecutor and Supreme Court biographer, Jeffrey Toobin, also CNN senior political commentator and former Illinois Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger.
Jeff, is it clear to you what the administration intends to do? I mean, you have Pam Bondi saying they're going to crack down on any -- what she calls hate speech on all sides of the aisle and then goes on to talk about only left wing.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, AUTHOR AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think the good news is it is not clear what they're going to do. That's good news, because if it was clear what Pam Bondi was saying, that would be a very bad development for free speech in America.
I mean, you know, the idea that there is some clear line between hate speech and free speech or that you can define hate speech in a way that is consistent with the First Amendment is just a myth. And, you know, the only person who really made sense about this was Charlie Kirk himself, in that quote you read early on, that's the truth about how the First Amendment has been interpreted.
[20:25:17]
And that is what the administration is going against. And the irony is, it was conservatives who were complaining about the left censoring free speech, whether it was on Twitter --
COOPER: Cancel culture.
TOOBIN: Cancel culture, whether it was on Twitter or Facebook, you know, during the first Trump administration. Now the shoe is on the other foot and they are talking about censoring almost exactly the same kind of speech that they were complaining about just a couple of years ago.
Congressman, we heard Stephen Miller talk in the podcast with Vice President Vance yesterday, I guess it was, about what the administration is about to launch against what they call domestic terrorism threats on the left, I assume. I think that is what he is talking about. Do you believe something is coming from the administration, whether it is, you know, what they call domestic terrorism threats, targeting people for their speech, going after leftist groups?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, that depends. That depends on what peoples reaction is. I feel like the administration is getting a little high on their own supply. They feel very powerful. They feel like the Constitution doesn't apply, but here's the issue: If they try to go after anybody, you know, power only exists in so much as we allow it to exist.
The First Amendment is clear. This is protected. Anywhere in court it is protected. But what happens when he comes after news agencies? You know, the fact that he mentioned the ABC lawsuit shows that ABC coming to the table and settling with him was not beneficial to free speech. So what do the news organizations do? Do they back down? Do they not run stories that are critical? What do these lawyers do, right? These law firms the President comes after? We get to determine whether or not they can come after or not.
I have every right on television to say things like, you know, Donald Trump could release the Epstein files tomorrow if he really wanted to. For them to think that they can then turn around and go after people for speech just -- it can't be backed up. It won't be backed up. Are people willing to fight? I think that's the big question.
COOPER: I mean, the President, Jeff, is clearly willing to file lawsuits left and right. I mean, he is filing this $15 billion lawsuit against "The New York Times." It is such an interesting thing that we haven't seen before, because in a number of cases, like, you know, you have corporate -- there is corporate interests for a lot of these companies. And regardless of what the merits of any case may be the corporation, I don't think in "The New York Times" case, but the corporation is willing to settle.
TOOBIN: CBS paid off a meritless case involving "60 Minutes." ABC paid off a meritless case involving George Stephanopoulos because they have larger interests at stake, that they need the federal government to accommodate.
COOPER: And that they know this administration would use against them.
TOOBIN: Would punish them. But you know what's important about "The New York Times" lawsuit is -- and I should say that there is an article by me that cited, as in -- that ran in "The Times" that's used in the lawsuit as an example of bias against Trump. So I just -- you know, I have a -- you know, a dog in this fight, but,
one thing the Supreme Court has said from the very beginning is that the most protected form of free speech is criticism of the government. That's the difference between an authoritarian country where you can't criticize, that's why you had a First Amendment, because you couldn't criticize the King before the revolution and that is the kind of speech that President Trump is attacking in that lawsuit and in that exchange with Jon Karl.
COOPER: Jeff Toobin, Adam Kinzinger, thank you.
Still ahead, the remarkable career of Robert Redford, including his searing portrayal of Bob Woodward in "All the President's Men." We will talk to Woodward and Bernstein tonight.
And the FBI director's Senate hearing turning into a shouting match.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, U.S. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: If you want to work on bringing this country -- it is my time, not yours.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): My God. My God.
PATEL: If you want to talk about --
BOOKER: -- dividing this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:31]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of shouting today when FBI Director Kash Patel was questioned at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing. At times, angry personal insults were thrown. California Senator Adam Schiff wanted to know whose decision it was to move Jeffrey Epstein's associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, to a minimum security prison after she met with the top Justice Department official.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Who made that decision and why?
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: The Bureau of Prisons.
SCHIFF: The Bureau of Decisions made it in --
PATEL: Prisons.
SCHIFF: The Bureau of Prisons decided on their own without any consultation with Blanche or anyone else, that they were going to suddenly, after this interview, completely unrelated to this interview, completely unrelated to anything she said, move her to a prison not suitable for a sex offender. You want the American people to believe that? Do you think they're stupid?
PATEL: No. I think the American people believe the truth. That I'm not in the weeds on the everyday movements of inmates.
SCHIFF: Oh you're not in the weeds --
PATEL: What I am doing is protecting this country, providing historic reform, and combating the weaponization of intelligence by the likes of you. And we have countlessly proven you to be a liar in Russiagate, in January 6th. You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate. You are a disgrace to this institution and an utter coward.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: That's the FBI director.
Delaware Senator Chris Coons is also a member of the Judiciary Committee who questioned Patel. He joins me now. Senator, first of all, what do you take away from Kash Patel's performance today?
[20:35:02]
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, Anderson, it was just that. It was a performance. He was testifying really for an audience of one, President Trump. During his confirmation hearing months ago, I asked him who the FBI director works for. And he said not the Constitution, not the American people, but the White House.
And then he demonstrated that both in his oversight hearing today and in how he's conducted himself as the FBI director. He's been more interested in revenge and retribution, in pushing out or firing folks who had investigated President Trump or who were connected in some way to January 6th investigations, and, frankly, in supporting President Trump's budget request, which would cut $500 million out of the operating funds of the FBI.
So today was a heated, combative exchange between the FBI director and many of my colleagues. Overall, I'm not sure it advanced the national security of the American people.
COOPER: You questioned him, you pointed out to him that he had said to you during confirmation hearings that there would be no politicization of the FBI. Do you think he's lived up to that?
COONS: No. In fact, the opposite. I pointed out that a number of respected seasoned senior FBI agents have been pushed out. Two of them are now suing him, claiming that they were fired only after being grilled on their political loyalty. So he did not answer those questions to my satisfaction and, in fact, became very aggressive and insulting, frankly, to Senator Durbin when Senator Durbin asked him about some of the more recent and high-profile firings.
COOPER: Your colleague, Senator Booker, told the director that he doesn't think he's fit to be in the FBI, and he also said, I think you're not going to be around long. Do you think that's true? I mean, did the -- Senator Booker was saying that, you know, the President doesn't necessarily stay loyal to people like Kash Patel or other subordinates. Do you think he's right?
COONS: Well, former Senator Sessions was one of the most loyal and most active campaigners for Donald Trump in 2016. He left the Senate to be his attorney general. I don't think he made it a year. When Jeff Sessions, as attorney general, made a decision that actually followed the law, President Trump fired him.
So Director Patel is getting some heat from the right over his handling of the Epstein matter and not fully releasing the files and directing full transparency. And, obviously, he had some contentious exchanges with members of the Senate today. So I do think some of how the Charlie Kirk investigation was handled has also raised concerns.
But, frankly, it's hard to know who's going to last how long in the Trump cabinet. He likes to set people against each other, and he takes a lot of input from outside of the world of career and professional leaders of law enforcement. If Laura Loomer takes a disliking to Kash Patel, he may be gone the next week.
COOPER: We saw Director Patel on television on, I think it was a morning show or a cable news outlet, revealing evidence and things that --
COONS: Yes.
COOPER: -- the FBI had just determined in the investigation of Charlie Kirk, things which other prosecutors would normally not be revealing other than --
COONS: Right.
COOPER: -- in court because you don't want to taint a jury. It seems that this director of the FBI has no such qualms.
COONS: He's been very eager to get ahead of this story, to be the first to break information, even when it was wrong. And that does not help or advance prosecutorial conduct or help secure a conviction. So there have been some questions and criticism about his tweeting and his speaking out about details of different investigations before they're in front of a jury.
COOPER: Yes. Senator Chris Coons, I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
COONS: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Up next, remembering the remarkable life and career of a legendary actor and director, Robert Redford.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much can you tell me about Deep Throat? ROBERT REDFORD, ACTOR AND DIRECTOR: How much do you need to know?
(END VIDEOCLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:43:30]
COOPER: We learned earlier today that Robert Redford died. He lived many lives in his 89 years. Actor, director, entrepreneur, environmental activist, husband and father. And we want to take a moment and remember his remarkable career.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): He was the golden boy of the silver screen.
REDFORD: Corey (ph), I can't kiss you anymore. My lips are numb.
COOPER (voice-over): The piercing eyes, the windswept hair, and of course, that smile. In a career that spanned more than 60 years, Robert Redford starred in some of Hollywood's most memorable hits "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll jump first.
REDFORD: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then you jump first.
REDFORD: No, I said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the matter with you?
REDFORD: I can't swim.
COOPER (voice-over): "The Sting."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, kid, you beat him.
REDFORD: You're right, Henry. It's not enough. It's close.
COOPER (voice-over): "The Way We Were." While his good looks helped make him a star, it was Redford's eye for filmmaking that made him a legend.
In the wake of the Watergate scandal, he bought the movie rights to the landmark political thriller, "All the President's Men."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much can you tell me about Deep Throat?
REDFORD: How much do you need to know?
COOPER (voice-over): In 1981, Redford won an Oscar, not for acting, but for directing the searing family drama, "Ordinary People." REDFORD: What for me is the greatest gratitude, and that keys around the word trust. I really am grateful for the trust that I received from a terrific cast.
[20:45:10]
COOPER (voice-over): By then, Redford, whose friends called him Bob, had already founded Utah's Sundance Film Institute for aspiring independent filmmakers. After falling in love with the state on a cross-country motorcycle trip, and where his passion for movies merged with his commitment to environmentalism.
REDFORD: I wanted to find a place that was going to be the last outpost of development, and this seemed to be it. So I just bought 2 acres in 1961. I bought 2 acres of land for 500 bucks and --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did.
REDFORD: And then I had to wait for two years before I could get the money to build my own house, which I did.
COOPER (voice-over): Years later, Redford would reportedly bemoan how the Institute's namesake film festival had become a magnet for marketing gimmicks and reality TV stars. By then, though, his legacy was long secured, with a list of acting and directing credits that included "The Great Gatsby," "Three Days of the Condor," "The Natural," "Out of Africa," "Indecent Proposal," "Quiz Show," and "A River Runs Through It."
REDFORD: As an artist, I just can't think of a better life than the one that I've been blessed with. It's just a great ride.
COOPER (voice-over): A great ride we were lucky to be invited along for. Robert Redford was 89 years old.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: I mentioned Redford's role in the 1976 film, "All the President's Men." It is by any measure a classic. If you haven't seen it, you should. Nominated for eight Academy Awards, it won four.
The movie's based on the book of the same name by Watergate reporters Bob Woodward, played by Redford, and Carl Bernstein, played by Dustin Hoffman, whose dogged scoops, The Washington Post, helped expose the biggest political scandal of its time.
Bob and Carl, join me tonight. Bob, we mentioned that Robert Redford didn't just star in "All the President's Men", he bought the film rights to your book for his production company. Everything I've read says he had a hand in basically everything, the casting, the screenplay. What do you remember most about the experience?
BOB WOODWARD, CO-AUTHOR, "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN": Well, he had more than a hand. He put his soul into it. He called me up when Carl and I were working on the story, and quite frankly, I didn't think it was him. And he said, I think the way to tell this story is about the reporting and the relationship between you and Carl Bernstein. I was quite skeptical. There was energy and intelligence that he had that is not normally associated with Hollywood actors.
COOPER: And Bob, I mean, what was it like to have arguably the biggest movie star in the country at a time when, you know, movies mattered, everybody saw them, and being a movie star was a really big deal. What was it like to have the biggest movie star in the country at the time play you in the movie and then have a friendship with him for so many years?
WOODWARD: Yes. Well, but the focus was the work, always. I mean, Carl -- I remember going to Carl and saying Robert Redford called, and he thinks the story of Watergate is about the reporting and the relationship between the two of us. And Carl can affirm this, I'm sure.
Carl said, Jesus, you know, you can't be talking to some Hollywood actor now. We're going to get totally crushed if people find out about that. Hang up! Don't talk about it.
COOPER: And that's a -- that you didn't --
CARL BERNSTEIN, CO-AUTHOR, "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN": Absolutely, I said it would be a disaster. If the White House found out, we were talking to Hollywood --
COOPER: Because you were still doing the reporting.
BERNSTEIN: We were still on the story when Redford called. And I said, what? I said, get off --
COOPER: But had the book already come out?
BERNSTEIN: I said -- no.
COOPER: No.
BERNSTEIN: The book had not come out yet. And I said, get off the phone. Don't talk to him. And indeed, I maintained that position until it was time for Nixon to resign.
COOPER: And Bob, I mean, there's a famous scene in the movie when Redford is you and Dustin Hoffman is Carl are first paired together in the newsroom and Redford discovers Hoffman has been surreptitiously editing his copy, confronts him. I just want to play part of that.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just helping. It's a little fuzzy.
REDFORD: May I have it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think you're saying what you mean.
REDFORD: I know exactly what I mean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not here. I can't tell from this whether Hunt works for Colson or Colson works for Hunt.
REDFORD: May I have it, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And some of your conclusions matter (ph).
REDFORD: May I have it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm not looking for a fight.
REDFORD: I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm just aware of the fact that you've only been here nine months. What does that got to do with anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been in the business since I'm 16.
REDFORD: What are you saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm trying to tell you that if you'd read mine and then read yours --
REDFORD: May I red yours?
If you're going to do it, do it right. Here are my notes. If you're going to hype it, hype it with the facts. I don't mind what you did. I mind the way you did it.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: So did that really happen?
WOODWARD: Exactly. And --
BERNSTEIN: Yes.
WOODWARD: -- there was a tension and a moment in this partnership where I know I had to realize that I couldn't carry the ball myself, that somebody like Carl, aggressive, I think 400 years in newspaper experience, maybe not quite that, and that I could learn.
[20:50:21]
COOPER: And Carl, at another point in the film, Redford looks at Dustin Hoffman, who's playing you and who always seems to have a cigarette in his mouth, and the line is, is there anywhere you -- is the -- the line, it says, is there anywhere you don't smoke? Was -- is that accurate?
BERNSTEIN: Yes, and happily, I gave up smoking some 30-something, 40- something years ago. But, yes. You know, one of the things, Redford was committed to not just accuracy, and that was our big point when we were talking to him about selling the rights. He was adamant about he wanted to buy them, but part of what we were saying is if there's going to be a film, it has to follow the book, and it has to be accurate.
This is a film of, you know, first of all, it's about the reporting process.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, it is a pure journalism film.
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely.
COOPER: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: Yes. Redford is a visionary. He is a truth-teller, but with great, great subtlety.
COOPER: Bob, did Redford ever ask you who Deep Throat was?
WOODWARD: Yes, we talked about sources, and Carl and I kept that great secret for decades, but I think we shared it with Redford --
COOPER: Really?
WOODWARD: But --
BERNSTEIN: You do?
WOODWARD: -- the whole thrill there --
BERNSTEIN: You never told me that.
WOODWARD: Don't talk -- but, you know, there were lots of things we learned from Redford, and one of them is about fame and prominence, that it is a double-edged sword.
COOPER: Carl Bernstein, thank you. Bob Woodward, thank you so much.
Well, coming up, President Trump has landed in the U.K. for an unprecedented second state visit. Shortly after his arrival, activists projected images of the President and Jeffrey Epstein onto Windsor Castle. Details on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:19]
COOPER: Well, late today, the President and First Lady arrived in London for a state visit, greeted by Royal Air Force personnel from the King's Color Squadron and Britain's Foreign Secretary. This morning, before taking off, the President was asked about his hopes for the trip.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My relationship is very good with the U.K. And Charles, as you know, who's now King, is my friend. And it's the first time this has ever happened where somebody was honored twice. So it's a great honor.
And this one's at Windsor. They've never used Windsor Castle for this before. They used Buckingham Palace. And I don't want to say one's better than the other, but they say Windsor Castle is the ultimate, right?
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Well, five American presidents have previously been to Windsor Castle. Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Donald Trump in his first term. But as far as we know, this will be the first official state visit there.
Max Foster has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Touching down in the U.K., President Donald Trump is back. An unprecedented second state visit for the U.K.'s most important allied country. It comes after Prime Minister Keir Starmer hand-delivered a personal invitation from King Charles III during his meeting with Trump at the White House earlier this year.
Trump described Charles as a beautiful and wonderful man, echoing sentiments he expressed for the late Queen Elizabeth and Prince William, who he met in Paris last October.
Eyebrows were raised during his last state visit whilst inspecting the Guard of Honor. He walked in front of the Queen, though the palace says this wasn't a breach of protocol. And at the state banquet, he placed his hand on the late monarch's back after his toast. Another breach of royal etiquette, though the palace insisting not a breach in protocol. But it did make headlines.
Trump has also spoken highly of the British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, but a series of scandals in the British government has weakened his position and strengthened key rival Nigel Farage of reform, who's famously close to Trump.
Not everyone is a fan of Trump here. With pageantry comes protest. Security has been ramped up and police are on high alert as disruptions are planned up and down the country, but particularly in Windsor and London. A reminder of the infamous Trump balloon that soared across Parliament Square as thousands protested against his visit in 2019.
But some do see his visit as a cause for excitement.
ANNE DALEY, WINDSOR RESIDENT: This is the second state visit. You know, it's spectacular. It's a shame, really, they're not having a carriage ride through Windsor because everybody loved Mr. Macron in the carriage, you know? So the security is very, very tight. I've been searched.
FOSTER (voice-over): This state visit will be even bigger than his last. 1,300 members of the military marking out in honor of the president, unprecedented in modern times. This visit's fanfare will also be extended to Melania Trump, who's set to join Queen Camilla for a whistle-stop tour around Windsor Castle if Camilla has recovered from her recent illness. Followed by a scouting event with Princess Kate on Thursday, cultivating the close ties between the two nations.
As Trump's visit mixes pageantry with politics and protests, it remains to be seen whether this visit will cement the relationship or revive memories of the past.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And Max Foster is in Windsor for us. What exactly happened tonight with those images projected onto the castle?
FOSTER (on-camera): Well, we worked out that the projector was actually in one of the hotel rooms up there. Protesters managed to get in there and project images of Jeffrey Epstein.
Well, we worked out that the projector was actually in one of the hotel rooms up there. Protesters managed to get in there and project images of Jeffrey Epstein with Donald Trump. A timeline, an alleged timeline of their relationship onto the castle very quickly closed down by the police who went up there and took out lots of equipment.
And we know that four people have been arrested. But just the type of event the authorities don't want Trump to see, so they're going to --
COOPER: Yes.
FOSTER (on-camera): -- protect him from it.
COOPER: Max Foster, thanks very much. Appreciate it, in Windsor.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
