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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Government Shutdown Set To Begin At Midnight; Trump, Hegseth Gather Troops In Rare Meeting, Announce New Military Standards; Interview With Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO); Trump, Hegseth Gather Troops In Rare Meeting, Announce New Military Standards; Hegseth Says The Military Will Impose The "Highest Male Standard" For All Combat Roles; Financier Accused Of Sex Trafficking And Abuse; Trump Warns Of "Irreversible" Changes To Government Due To Shutdown. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 30, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RYAN WISSMAN, PENNSYLVANIA INDEPENDENT VOTER: I think the divisions in our country, the speed at which we are apparently losing some rights that we've just always had, it frightens me quite bit.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): And even among some who voted for Trump, like Munson.
LISA MUNSON, MARYLAND INDEPENDENT VOTER: I liked what he did the first term. I liked that he shook stuff up. Unfortunately, he's taking his ego I think, a little too far. And it's all about him and how he's perceived and that's really -- it is not about you.
ZELENY (voice over): Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to Jeff and thanks to all of you for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:36]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, a government shutdown now all but certain, the President says a lot of good can come of it. Also, when there is a shutdown, what shuts down from air traffic control to food safety inspections, a look at what stops and what keeps running.
Plus, what the President said to the country's top military commanders about, among other things, their role in what he called a war from within.
Good evening everyone, John Berman here in for Anderson. And as you can see in the big rolling numbers right there, that's how long before the government shuts down, less than four hours. And it now appears imminent.
About 90 minutes ago, the Senate rejected a Democratic bill coupling a funding extension with healthcare provisions. Also, failing with just the last hour, a Republican so-called clean Continuing Resolution, which would keep the lights on for seven more weeks. Even before this though, prospects for averting a shutdown grew more
remote today in part after the President last night posted a racist A.I. generated video depicting house minority leader Hakeem Jeffries wearing a sombrero and mustache, and Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer, speaking in a fake voice. This is leader Jeffries' reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Don't cop out to a racist and fake A.I. video. When I'm back in the Oval Office, say it to my face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: For his part, the President raised the specter of more deep federal job cuts, something he later suggested he's been wanting to do shut down or not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible, that are bad for them, and irreversible by them, like cutting vast numbers of people out, cutting things that they like, cutting programs that they like.
A lot of good can come down from shutdowns. We can get rid of a lot of things that we didn't want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Senate Majority Leader John Thune also was taking a hard line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you ruling out any negotiations with Democrats, if there is a shutdown?
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): The negotiation happens when the governments open. So, let's keep the government open and then we will have the negotiation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Also, digging in his Democratic counterpart who pointed a finger at the President and Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): He is admitting that he is doing the firing of people if, God forbid, it happens. He's using Americans as pawns, as I said, Democrats do not want a shutdown. We stand ready to work with Republicans to find a bipartisan compromise and the ball's in their court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: A lot of moving parts tonight and very little time. CNN's Manu Raju and Kaitlan Collins on the story for us. Let's start with Manu Raju. Manu, is a shutdown inevitable at this point and what happens next?
RAJU: Yes, this is a perilous moment because the shutdown is going to happen at midnight. How long it will last? It's unclear how they will get out of this. Also unclear, what will it take for the two sides to come together? That is a huge question at this moment.
We do know what the Republican plan is now moving forward. They plan to put their bill on the floor of the United States Senate that would extend government funding for seven weeks, with no additions to it.
They believe that they can get more Democrats to come their way, force them to cave under pressure as people start to see their services dried up. As people start to get laid off, as people start to see their jobs being furloughed, that they believe more Democrats will support this. They need eight Democrats to back this. Today, they got three.
The question is, can more come to their side? But the Democratic leaders are still pushing for their demands. They want a negotiation or at least an extension of Obamacare subsidies that are set to expire at year's end. They want to reverse the Medicaid cuts that were under the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, and they want to reign in Donald Trump's ability to cut federal spending without the consent of Congress.
All of that the Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, says that needs to be negotiated later. He says reopen the government now, negotiate those other issues at a later date.
Now, what I caught up with some of those Democratic Senators who had actually voted for that stopgap bill back in March to keep the government open through September and ultimately voted no today. I asked them why their positions had changed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): We've watched President Trump over the last six months destroy our government, put families at risk, hike costs on healthcare to have another increase on people's access to healthcare is another increase they can't afford.
RAJU: Why did you vote now? What changed from March?
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Well, it's about healthcare. When I first came into office, I fought for the Affordable Care Act so that people could have quality, affordable healthcare. And as I'm leaving, I don't want to see that eroded away.
RAJU: Why not negotiate that later than keep it open now.
PETERS: Because they're going to get their notices on November 1st. They have to make decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP) [20:05:40]
RAJU: But those are the senators to watch, John, because ultimately the question is if the leadership -- the Republican leadership carries through on their promise to force a vote after vote after vote on this republican bill that has so far failed to get 60 votes, will those Democratic senators break ranks? Will they start to side with the Republican leadership? The calculation among top Republicans is that they ultimately will.
But I asked the Senate Democratic Leader, Chuck Schumer, just moments ago if he can guarantee that he will not see enough Democrats breaking ranks to support the Republican plan, he would not go that far. He said, our guarantee is to the American people that we are going to fight as hard as we can for their health care.
So a lot of questions here at this moment, John, whether or not other democrats will come on board, whether there will be any negotiation whatsoever or whether we'll see a government shutdown, that could be as long as the last one that occurred in 2018 into 2019, thirty-five days, the longest in history. And that was very painful for so many Americans. How painful will this be? A major question at this moment -- John.
BERMAN: Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill could be a late night for you. The first of many.
Let's get to CNN chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source," Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, how is The White House viewing this shutdown, now, what, less than four hours away? What are you hearing from your sources?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, I mean, The White House has been arguing, and the President himself, multiple times throughout the day, has been asked about the prospect of the government shutting down come midnight.
And he's instead framing it as potentially politically advantageous for them, for Republicans by saying that they could use this moment, they being the administration, to cancel programs that Democrats like federal programs, to also try to lay off federal workers, as we've seen as a consideration that was put out there by his own budget director, Russ Vought.
And so, the President has been arguing time and time again today that this is on the Democrats. And they believe would actually undermine Democrats if the government shuts down. I think that is why you're hearing from some of those key Senators that Manu said to watch there, those Democratic Senators who are in a position, they don't necessarily want to be in tonight.
Now, whether or not it's enough for John Thune as he keeps these votes going, that remains to be seen. But it's certainly something that The White House feels is going to benefit them in the long run.
Now, we don't know if that's true or how this is going to play out, and certainly how it would play out with voters. But, John, just to give you a sense of how the White House is, is viewing this. Earlier today, when I was there, as we were leaving inside the briefing room, they put up these two television screens and basically were playing a loop on repeat of past comments by Democratic Senators, many of whom are on the hill tonight warning about the impacts of a government shutdown on Americans and what that could mean.
And so, obviously, that is something that they are going to try to use and continue again. Obviously, the President himself has talked about shutdowns and has lived through them, including in his first term, the longest government shutdown on record. That was 35 days when it came -- when it came to money for his is border wall. And, John, I will tell you one thing I did hear from White House officials tonight is the President is planning to be awake and stay up as all of this is playing out, and basically watch as we get closer and closer to this midnight deadline.
BERMAN: You will be staying awake and watching as well. Kaitlan Collins, we will see you at the top of the hour for "The Source" and your conversation with House Speaker Mike Johnson, a significant discussion with just hours to go until the shutdown.
With us now, Brad Todd, a Republican strategist, and Bakari Sellers, a former Democratic state representative from South Carolina. Bakari, let me just start with you and say, why now? Why do you think it's important for Democrats if you do think so, to have this fight now?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, anytime Democrats are fighting back and fighting for the American people, that's a good thing. And let's just be -- here are three points I want to make that are very clear that the American public needs to understand everybody watching needs to understand.
The first is that Republicans control the White House, the House and the Senate. This is their baby, this is their shutdown. The fact that they cannot govern is a fundamental problem. This is not a Democratic shutdown. This is not a Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries shutdown. This is the simple fact that Mike Johnson and Donald Trump cannot govern. That's one.
Two, what are Democrats fighting for? They're fighting for to make sure that we bring back the Affordable Care Act subsidies because people's health care premiums are about to go up. And even more importantly, they're rolling back the Medicaid cuts because we're starting to see community health centers in places like Virginia and Ohio shut down. Even in South Carolina, where I am, the Oakland Community Health Center, not far from where I'm sitting, right now, shut down because of the Medicaid cuts.
And so, this is so important to the American people. So shut it down. Listen, if they can't govern, we're not going to help you in this fight. Shut it down.
[20:10:22]
BERMAN: Brad, I'll ask you the same question. Why now? BRAD TODD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first off, it is Chuck Schumer
Shutdown. Democrats have said previously that you can't hold the government hostage. You cannot shut the government down to achieve your political victories. In fact, in 2018, when Hakeem Jeffries said Donald Trump was using a ransom note when it came to try to achieve some policy objectives, this is a clean, continuing resolution. The House has already passed it.
Democrats don't have to vote for it. They just have to let it come to a vote on the floor, which is what they've always said is the fair thing to do. And to Bakari's point about healthcare, what he means is there's $40 billion a year of subsidies for big insurance companies. They go straight to the insurance companies from the government. And it was meant for COVID costs. COVID has been over for two-and-a-half years, but the Democrats want to keep pumping up the profits and pockets of big insurance. It's time for that to end, and that's what's going to happen on December 31st.
BERMAN: Bakari, you heard Kaitlan describing what they're doing at the White House. House. They're playing on a loop in the press briefing room. Sound from Democrats in the past saying that the government shouldn't be held hostage or issues shouldn't be used to hold hostage and shutdowns there. What do you say to that?
SELLERS: I say, when I leave here, I'm going to go by the bar before I go home because its Taco Tuesday at the Sellers house tonight. And when I go by the bar on my way home, everybody is going to be like, I don't understand why Republicans are shutting down government. I mean, math is math. I mean, I don't know if my good friend Brad is having, as the kids say, his math is not mathing.
They control government now. I mean, they literally control the White House. They control the House, they control the Senate. Americans don't understand that, when you control the levers of power, when you even have the Supreme Court acquiescing to your every wish, why can you not keep government open, if this is something you want to do? I mean, actually come, to the table.
TODD: Bakari, you're acting like people don't know sense. Don't insult our viewers like that Bakari. They know civics. They know the Democrats have to vote to put the bill on the floor. They're filibustering, they're trying to hold the bill to keep the government open hostage. That's the whole point.
SELLERS: No, it's not. It's not about holding a bill hostage. It's about actually having negotiation skills so you can get this done. You know, Donald Trump, and you've said this many times before, he said it before. He is a negotiator in chief. I mean, he negotiates like and it rains down like manna from heaven above.
But the simple fact is, get in a room, get it done. We want healthcare for everyday Americans. And you said it goes to insurance companies. The simple fact is, you know what's going to happen after the election because you all pushed it back in the Big Beautiful Bill, premiums are going to go up. Democrats want to stave that off. We want to keep community health
centers open. This is the first time in a long time, I can come on T.V. with John Berman or Anderson or anybody else and have a clear, concise message from Democrats. I feel pretty good about where I am today.
TODD: Shut it down -- your message is shut it down. That's your message, shut it down.
BERMAN: Brad, let me ask you this, because last night I had the House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, on and he was saying that in the White House meeting with Chuck Schumer and the Republican leadership and the President, there was some listening. There were vast disagreements, but there was some listening back and forth. That was right before the President posted that racist message of Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer there. How did that help with these negotiations?
TODD: Well, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what didn't help is the fact that Hakeem Jeffries is walking out and trying to win back the House majority by shutting the government down. That's his whole plan, is he hopes that shutting the government down will exact enough pain. And he's counting on people in the media to blame Republicans when in every previous shutdown, they always say it's the minority party in Congress who's trying to attach policy to a simple bill to keep the government open.
So, Hakeem is playing a very cynical game, and he's hoping that the media will help him out on this. Previously, it's always been clean bill, keep it open. That's been the mantra. Now, he's trying to flip the tables on that, but it's hypocritical.
BERMAN: Brad Todd, Bakari Sellers, thanks to both of you, Bakari, and enjoy Taco Tuesday, you too Brad.
SELLERS: Thank you.
BERMAN: Ahead, tonight, a wealthy New York financier, his female assistant in sex trafficking charges. Only his name isn't Epstein and her's isn't Maxwell. The alleged details they are something else.
And next, the President's Defense Secretary addressed an unprecedented gathering of admirals and generals in an unprecedented way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF WAR SECRETARY: If the Secretary of War can do regular hard P.T. so can every member of our joint force. Frankly, it's tiring to look out at combat formation or really any formation and see fat troops.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: We'll get some perspective on what the generals and troops may make of that, and far more from the President, from two combat veterans. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:37]
BERMAN: It is one thing to what the President did today and invoke the enemy within when talking about fellow Americans. It's another to do it in front of some 800 generals and admirals from bases across the country and around the world, ordered to attend what, by all appearances, was a made for T.V. pep rally full of references to electoral politics and attacks on political adversaries and previous commanders in chief and former top military leaders.
On top of all that, the men and women who sat through this were informed today that they and the forces they command could be the ones to carry out operations against that very same enemy within. In American cities, some of which their commander-in-chief named today. All of this is unprecedented. Some of it puts a strain on the military's long tradition of noninvolvement in politics, which is why you won't hear much in the way of applause throughout most of what the President and Defense Secretary said today at Marine Corps base Quantico.
Defense Secretary Hegseth led things off. This is a sampling of what he said.
[20:20:37]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: It's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country, in the world. It's a bad look. No more beardo-s. The era of rampant and ridiculous shaving profiles is done.
Simply put, if you do not meet the male level physical standards for combat positions cannot pass a P.T. test or don't want to shave and look professional, it's time for a new position or a new profession.
We're talking about words like bullying and hazing and toxic. They've been weaponized and bastardized inside our formations, undercutting commanders and NCOs -- no more.
Our female officers and NCOs are the absolute best in the world. But when it comes to any job that requires physical power to perform in combat, those physical standards must be high and gender neutral. If women can make it, excellent, if not, it is what it is. Basic training is being restored to what it should be scary, tough and disciplined.
We're empowering drill sergeants to instill healthy fear in new recruits, ensuring that future war fighters are forged. Yes, they can shark attack. They can toss bunks. They can swear, and yes, they can put their hands on recruits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Secretary Hegseth was followed by the President, whose remarks ran more than an hour. He rambled at times, that's a charitable way to put it. This is how an ally, Steve Bannon, described the appearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, HOST, "WAR ROOM WITH STEVE BANNON": The President looks tired. I think, why, he's got every day is another huge event, another world historical event. Everybody right now has to pitch in and do superhuman work around President Trump.
President Trump yesterday at the Netanyahu event, I thought looked very tired. Today, he looked very tired. And why does he look very tired? I don't know the weight of the world on his shoulders and he's kind of doing everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, you can be your own judge of his demeanor, watching the clips. The President also indulged in quite a few digressions, including this one about stealth technology and bringing back battleships.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm a very esthetic person, and I don't like some of the ships you're doing esthetically. They say, oh, it's stealth, they said, it's not stealth. An ugly ship is not necessary in order to say you're stealth. I think we should maybe start thinking about battleships by the way, I used to watch victory at sea. I love victory at sea. Look at these admirals. It's got to be your all-time favorite black and white. And I look at those ships, they came with the destroyers alongside of them, and nothing was going to stop. They were 20 deep, and they were in a straight line, and there was nothing going to stop them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: He also talked about how careful he is going up and down stairs, as opposed to President's Biden and Obama, both of whom he disparaged as Presidents and commanders in chief. There was this on Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The autopen, I call him the autopen. It's how would you like to have your thing signed by an autopen. You know, when I have a general and I have to sign for a general because we have beautiful paper, the gorgeous paper, I said, throw a little more gold on it. They deserve it. Give me. I want the A-paper, not the D-paper. We used to sign a piece of garbage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, there was a lot of that, a lot. But also the sort of things that Presidents rarely say out loud at all, let alone so openly and explicitly to military commanders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We're under invasion from within, no different than a foreign
enemy, but more difficult in many ways because they don't wear uniforms, at least when they're wearing a uniform, you can take them out. These people don't have uniforms, but we are under invasion from within.
The radical left Democrats. What they've done to San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, they're very unsafe places and were going to straighten them out one by one and this is going to be a major part for some of the people in this room. That's a war, too. It's a war from within.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: It is a war from within, he said. And this is what he said, some of the people in the room should do about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I told Pete we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military, National Guard -- but military, because we're going into Chicago very soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:10]
BERMAN: Finally, as for rules of engagement, and we should be clear, this is an American cities against American citizens. The President also spelled it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was watching during Biden -- they had troops standing up like this brave standing up at attention the way I should stand all the time. And I go like this, and people are standing. Their mouth is this far away from their mouth and they're spitting at them, and they're screaming at them.
And that soldier standing there, he wants to knock the hell out of the person, but he's not allowed to do anything. If it's okay with you generals and admirals, I've taken that off. I say, they spit, we hit. Is that okay? I think so, they spit. It's a new thing. They spit, we hit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: With us now is Congressman Jason Crow, a Democrat from Colorado, an Army combat veteran. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. You put out a statement through your office that called this a campaign photo op speech. What do you mean?
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): The whole thing was vile, John, I mean, just imagine for a minute the generals and the admirals in that room, many of whom raised their right hand, took an oath when they were 18 years old, and have been in uniform for 35 or 40 years, serving this country, moving every year to 10, 11, 12 combat deployments under their belt. They've seen their friends give their lives in service to this country. They think relentlessly about the health and welfare of the men and women under their command. They're working 70, 80, 90-hour weeks spread all around the world, and they're forced to come back and listen to speeches by a five-time draft dodger in Pete Hegseth lecture them on grooming standards and fitness and shaving and ramble about war movies, a complete disgrace.
But what's more is that it actually put Americans at risk, right? You had that talent and those commanders pulled away from their commands, from military operations, from combat operations, which has taken up most of their week to sit there and listen to that. Absolutely, jeopardized those operations. And, you know, I just hope that it didn't create a major problem somewhere.
BERMAN: How do you think its viewed from around the world? Well, it's viewed the same way it's always viewed every time Donald Trump gets up and says something vile and disgusting and weaponizes the full force of the American government and his platform as the President of the United States against his political opponents, or to ramble incoherently about his random thoughts or war movies or, you know, the gilded entryways he's building at The White House or the $200 million ballroom he's building at The White House, which, oh, by the way, is happening at the same time he's about to shut down our government in a few hours and leave people without healthcare, without paychecks, without better benefits that have been earned through years of military service through retirement.
The man doesn't give a about regular people, about Americans. He serves only himself and his ego and it's just so clear.
BERMAN: As a veteran and as a member of Congress, I know that you are a firm believer in civilian control and oversight over the military. The Defense Secretary Hegseth said today, basically, to these admirals and generals, if you don't like it, you should quit.
What do you think that might do to that talent in the room? Do you think that some of it could go?
CROW: I don't think those folks are going to be deterred by Pete Hegseth. I think -- my guess is they view him as the joke that he is.
Pete Hegseth is acting the Secretary of Defense on T.V. He wasn't hired to actually be it and to do it because he is way in over his head and he doesn't know what he's doing. That is very clear and even his employees who have resigned in protest over the last six months, very clearly say the man doesn't know what he's doing and he acts manic day to day and is more focused on his social media content, on filming workout videos on, you know, showing up and doing grandstanding events like he did today than actually doing the job of Secretary of Defense.
So, the man is way in over his head. That is really clear. I just hope that our military commanders, those incredible men and women in uniform, just continue to stay focused and disciplined as they have throughout their entire lives to get the job done, that needs to get done to protect our service members and protect Americans while Pete Hegseth continues to gallivant around and shoot videos of himself doing pull ups, bad ones at that.
[20:30:01]
BERMAN: Congressman Jason Crow from Colorado, we appreciate your time tonight, thank you.
With us now, CNN's senior political commentator and former Republican Congressman from Illinois, Adam Kinzinger. He also previously served in the Air Force and Air National Guard, flew missions in Iraq and Afghanistan and retired as Lieutenant Colonel; and anchor of "CNN News Central" Brianna Keilar, my erstwhile co-anchor and Brianna has written and reported extensively on the relationship between the U.S. Military and the American public for her "Home Front" column, no one speaks to more military members and their families than Brianna.
Congressman, let me just start with you on something we haven't talked about yet. What did you make of the President's demeanor and performance during this speech?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It was awful. And I've, you know, look, I've been critical of his speeches in the past, but it was -- he looked -- he really looked tired. He was doing his, you know, rambling thing. I mean, I don't know.
If you would walk away, I could point out things he said in his speech, you know, scary, eerie things. But if there was like a theme to the speech, I don't know what it is. And, I mean, ultimately, look, Donald Trump dodged the draft. Let's be very clear about that.
And now he's standing in front of these generals, and he has control of them, rightly, according to the Constitution. But then just going off in these different tantrums. At one point, he spoke for five minutes about hopefully we don't have to use nuclear weapons.
Yes, hopefully we don't have to use nuclear weapons. I agree. I don't think anybody in there disagrees. So it was, let me see, unique to say the least. And I'm sure probably most of the folks in that room left feeling like the American people did, which is a little shaken after seeing that.
BERMAN: Brianna, Secretary Hegseth said that women serving in combat roles should meet the, quote, "highest male standard of physical fitness." What impact do you think this is going to have on how and where women are deployed in the military and even how many women choose to serve?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I mean, it's a very good question. I think if you don't know what's going on in the military, you might have been left with the impression from his comments that it's running rampant in the military, that you have women serving in all of these combat roles for which they are not qualified to serve. And talking to sources, and the congressman can speak to this as well, that's not the case. When you talk to many reputable service members and leaders, they'll tell you they've had very good experiences serving in these situations with women. And also when you talk to national security experts, they'll tell you it's essential. I mean, women are about 18 percent of the military.
It really can't run without them. And they're concerned from a military readiness national security standpoint that this could send a signal to women that they're not welcome. It could send a signal to women who are considering serving that they're not welcome.
So you heard Hegseth say today it's not about preventing women from serving. I think he said something akin to that. But because it was less than a year ago before he had this job where he said that he does not support women being in combat, there are a lot of questions about where he stands on this.
BERMAN: Congressman, I want to play part of what Secretary Hegseth said and get your response. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our war fighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt, and kill the enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BERMAN: What do you think that means in practice, Congressman?
KINZINGER: Well, I mean, I hope it means that, you know, against legitimate military targets, the U.S. should bring its lethality, overpower the enemy. You know, that's what I hope he means. What I hope he doesn't mean is we can just blow up whatever we want to now. And that needs to be clarified.
I mean, I am all for a lethal military that does an immense amount of violence against people that we're supposed to do an immense amount of violence against, but not against civilians. That's how you turn populations against you. That's how you lose your moral authority.
And, John, just coming out of this, though, like, what I notice about Hegseth's speech is I think he's not qualified for the job. I think he feels it. And it was all show. I mean, everything is show, even making a big point about no beards in the military.
Like, back in 1980. It was all just to look tough and show himself as being tough. And I don't think, again, just like with the President, I don't think he left engendering a lot of confidence from people.
BERMAN: Brianna, you've written a lot about bridging the military- civilian divide. You know, the -- Americans have seen troops in their cities at times here in New York after 9/11 and whatnot. But by and large, the U.S. public is not used to many armed soldiers in their streets being deployed. When he talks about using cities as training grounds for the military, what do you think that might do to the relationship between the military and the public?
KEILAR: Yes, nothing good. I think that is uniformly felt by a lot of people who are experts in this realm. And the National Guard specifically, I think, is in a more comfortable position when it is seen as experts in this realm.
[20:35:03]
And the National Guard specifically, I think, is in a more comfortable position when it is seen as being helpful in a community. And, of course, there are Americans who are going to agree with President Trump's policies in how he wants to deploy the National Guard. But that's not really the case in a lot of these cities, right?
We're hearing that from leaders in the cities. We're hearing that from residents. And it's like trust with anything, right? It is easily broken, and it can be hard to repair. So I think there are a lot of concerns.
BERMAN: Adam Kinzinger, Brianna Keilar, great to see both of you. Thank you so much for coming in.
A wealthy Manhattan investor and his assistant stand accused of sex trafficking and abuse. The case is drawing comparisons to another now infamous New York financier.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SHAN WU, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It resembles very much the situation of Epstein having an assistant who works for him, helping him to prey on the women and to set up this organized way of doing it.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
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[20:40:43]
BERMAN: A case is playing out in a New York federal court that has eerie similarities to the Jeffrey Epstein saga. This time, the accused trafficker is this man, Manhattan financier Howard Rubin. Jennifer Powers, the alleged accomplice, makes an appearance in court tomorrow morning here in New York City.
Our Randi Kaye has the story.
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RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Women forced into submission and sadomasochism in what prosecutors call a sex dungeon. It's all detailed in this 13-page federal indictment brought by the Brooklyn U.S. Attorney's Office against retired financier Howard Rubin. Women were allegedly tied up, drugged, and beaten from at least 2009 through 2019.
Rubin's personal assistant, Jennifer Powers, is also accused of arranging the women. According to the indictment, Powers turned a bedroom inside Rubin's Midtown Manhattan penthouse into a dungeon for sex, painted red and soundproofed, and furnished with chains and devices to shock or electrocute his victims. Rubin and Powers shared graphic details of his sexual encounters over email, the indictment said.
In one email, Powers asked, "Did you shock her private parts?"
WU: It resembles very much the situation of Epstein having an assistant who works for him, helping him to prey on the women and to set up this organized way of doing it.
KAYE (voice-over): Rubin, who has pleaded not guilty, gave his alleged victims a safe word to use if sex became too violent, according to the indictment. But in some cases, women were gagged or beaten so violently, they became unconscious. So a safe word was useless. And when women complained to Powers about the abuse, prosecutors say she told them to ice their injuries or apply bruise cream.
KAYE: Before these federal charges, some of Rubin's accusers had previously filed a civil lawsuit against him claiming he'd sexually assaulted them. That was brought by two Playboy models and another model from here in Florida. In 2022, a jury awarded the plaintiffs nearly $4 million. Rubin has appealed that civil judgment.
KAYE (voice-over): In the new federal case, prosecutors say Rubin preyed on former Playboy models he found through social media or high end prostitution networks and made them sign nondisclosure agreements. Prosecutors claim Rubin and Powers spent at least $1 million of Rubin's money on this sex trafficking network.
WU: The multiple victims makes it an overwhelming case. And so often in sexual abuse cases, especially with someone who's been doing it a long time, that there's a real catalyst effect when one person comes forward. And when 10 people come forward, you may yet still see other people coming forward, too.
KAYE (voice-over): If Howard Rubin's name sounds familiar, that's because his career on Wall Street was chronicled in the book "Liars Poker" about Solomon Brothers in the 1980s. According to the book, Rubin had joined the firm in 1982 and the following year made his first 25 million. He later held top positions at Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns and had a stint with Soros Fund Management, a firm that oversees George Soros' family money and his philanthropic foundation.
In all, Rubin is now staring down 10 federal criminal counts, including sex trafficking, transportation to engage in prostitution and bank fraud, according to the indictment. Lawyers for neither Rubin or Powers responded to CNN's request for comment.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KAYE (on-camera): And when Rubin was in court, John, to enter his plea, the prosecutor told the judge that there are dozens more victims not named in the court documents. Also, that Rubin relied on 10 other people who have yet to be charged. And that prosecutor also noted that Rubin allegedly continued to sex traffic women even after he was named in that civil suit years ago.
She also noted for the judge that he had the means to flee $74 million in a Cayman Islands bank account. So the judge did decide to keep Howard Rubin behind bars. That's where he is tonight. His alleged accomplice will enter her plea tomorrow morning in that Brooklyn federal courtroom.
And if convicted, John, the two of them do face a maximum penalty of life in prison.
BERMAN: Quite a story. Randi Kaye, thank you very much.
Up next, more of our breaking news. Is there any chance to avoid a federal shutdown in a few short hours? New York Congressman Dan Goldman will join us.
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[20:49:40]
BERMAN: All right, well a little more than three hours from a government shutdown that is looking inevitable. No doubt a lot of nail biting tonight by federal employees who have bills to pay and mouths to feed.
With us now, New York Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman. Congressman, thanks for being with us. Like I said, just over three hours now. Is this thing inevitable at this point?
REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY): Well, unless something dramatic happens, I believe it is. And that's in part because House Republicans are not even in Washington, D.C.
[20:50:05]
The Democrats are here, ready to work, ready to negotiate a bipartisan agreement, which is necessary in order to get bipartisan votes, as is required here. But literally, the House Republicans are on vacation. And we're sitting around waiting to talk to any of our colleagues about how to keep the government open and how to fix this health care crisis that Republicans have created through their own partisan legislation.
BERMAN: The Obamacare subsidies don't expire, though, until the end of the year. You could pass what they call a clean continuing resolution, keep the government funded, and talk about Obamacare subsidies, no?
GOLDMAN: Well, first of all, notices go out as early as tomorrow as to what the premium increases are. And undoing all of that is no small feat. But second of all, that's not the only thing on the table here. Remember, the CR in March was far from clean. It was a very dirty CR that is now trying to be extended. And second of all, there are a number of other issues. There are Medicaid cuts. There is the fact that Donald Trump continues to enter into agreements with Democrats to get our votes and then just turns around and undoes those agreements and yanks funding for things that he doesn't like. So there are a number of things that are going to have to go into a bipartisan bill in addition to the premium tax credits.
BERMAN: The President and OMB Director Russ Vought basically say that they will enact irreversible changes to some programs. In other words, cut jobs permanently, perhaps here. How worried are you that that could be the effect of this impact -- this shutdown?
GOLDMAN: Well, that would be in direct violation of law. So ordinarily, when a president is told that you would be breaking the law by doing something, that stops the president. In Donald Trump's case, it almost seems more appealing to him.
So I don't know what they're going to do. But we're not going to be held hostage by this idea that they're going to threaten to do damage, most of which they are already doing. And they are doing it in massive, massive waves that is crushing the American people with higher costs, increasing health care costs.
Community health centers, nursing homes, hospitals are already starting to close because of their attack on our health care system. And this is a bipartisan bill. It has to be bipartisan. And no one negotiating a contract would ever say, well, we both have to agree to it, but you're insisting on doing only what you want, so I'll go ahead with that.
That's preposterous. It's not how things work. That's not how Congress works. And the Republicans need to get back to Washington, sit down with us, negotiate in good faith so -- to help the American people. And we will continue to fight for the American people as long as we need to.
BERMAN: Congressman Dan Goldman, just three hours away now until the government shuts down. Appreciate your time.
Up next, CNN's Harry Enten is here with some hard and fast facts on how many government workers will lose their paychecks and what services are curtailed and how you could be affected when the shutdown begins. Looking like shortly.
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[20:58:02]
BERMAN: All right. Without something happening in the next few minutes or hours, the government will shut down, which means hundreds of thousands of federal workers could lose their paychecks. Chief Data Analyst Harry Enten is here with some of these hard numbers. How many people are we talking about here?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA REPORTER: We are talking a lot -- about a lot of folks who will be out of work for at least a little bit of time. I mean, workers furloughed from the shutdown. We're talking about at least 492,000 workers, my goodness gracious, plus hundreds of thousands working unpaid. So we're talking well past 500,000 workers who will either be not working at all or be working and have to wait for their paychecks coming (ph).
BERMAN: This is interesting, right, because you have a lot of people who will be forced to work. You know, this will impact their lives directly.
ENTEN: Correct.
BERMAN: I mean, week to week.
ENTEN: Correct. Exactly right. And, you know, what are we talking about here in terms of affected by the shutdown? Well, food and drug inspections will be reduced. We're talking about the National Park staff being reduced. You can recall that there were a lot of folks during the last shutdown.
They go into parks and there were no actual National Park staff there. We'd be also potentially talking about airport delays. Remember, we're talking about TSA and air traffic controllers who are working, but their payments will, in fact, be delayed. You go back to that 2018- 2019 shutdown. One of the reasons why that shutdown ultimately came to an end was because 10 controllers actually called out sick and it led to massive delays. And they said, you know, we need to end this shutdown.
Now, beyond this, what will not actually be affected? Well, some services that will continue. We're talking about the Social Security. Social Security checks will come in. National Weather Service, they'll still be producing forecasts. We're talking about the Department of Veterans Affairs. Those will still be open.
Medicare will still be going on. And unemployment insurance will, in fact, still be reaching the people who, of course, need it most.
BERMAN: How long could this go on?
ENTEN: How long will this potentially go on? John Berman, it could go on and on and on. How long could this last? Just go down the last shutdown, 2018-2019. We were talking about 35 days. This could go on for months and months and months because at this particular point, it doesn't seem to me like either side wants to get in.
And, of course, on the Democratic side, that's very different from what we've historically seen in the polling, where Democrats say we want compromise. This time around, the polling, in fact, says that Democrats, in fact, want strong leaders. And they're split down the middle as to whether or not they want compromise or not.
BERMAN: There might be an incentive, a perverse political incentive for both sides to keep this going.
Harry Enten, great to see you at night. I suspect I will see you in the morning as well.
ENTEN: I think you may just see me in the morning.
BERMAN: All right, the news continues. The countdown continues.
The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.
