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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
AG Bondi Deflects And Attacks Dems In Tense Hearing; Interview With Rep. Dan Goldman (D-NY); National Guard Troops Arrive In Illinois For Training Amid Trump's Push To Deploy Guard In Chicago And Portland; Homeland Security Secy. Noem Meets With Portland Police Chief Against National Guard Deployment; More Staffing Shortages Cause Air Travel Delays As Government Shutdown Nears One-Week Mark; Israel Commemorates October 7th Attacks; Source: Israel And Hamas Have Made "Progress" In First Two Days Of Talks; Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff Expected To Meet Qatari Prime Minister On Wednesday. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 07, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Cardiovascular disease.
BJORN BEELER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL POLLUTANTS ELIMINATION NETWORK: Studies have shown about 100 percent of Americans have phthalates in their body, and it's so ubiquitous it's everywhere.
If you look around your room and your house, your clothes are made of plastics, your furniture is made of plastics. Everything is getting turned into plastics. But by 2060, like about 35 years from now, we're going to have four times more plastic on the planet than we have today.
WEIR: Bill Weir, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Wow! Incredible for all of us to know. Thank you for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:36]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, as former FBI Director James Comey prepares for his arraignment tomorrow, the latest on Attorney General Bondi dodging questions about what led to his indictment and a whole lot more.
And later, the Texas National Guard, now on the ground in Illinois, despite objections by state and local leaders. We'll take you there and to Portland as well.
And the air traffic controller shortage spreading across the country, now Chicago, Las Vegas, Houston, Newark, Nashville and more are affected.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
It was a heated day on Capitol Hill with Attorney General Pam Bondi on the eve of one of the biggest moments so far in her short tenure, the arraignment of former FBI Director James Comey in a Virginia courtroom tomorrow morning.
Bondi was facing her first grilling by Senate Judiciary Committee since her confirmation. Now, in the eight months since both her supporters and critics would likely agree, she has drastically transformed the Justice Department making it very clear she is first and foremost President Trump's Attorney General.
During the hearing, the Attorney General repeatedly played for the cameras, frequently not necessarily answering senators' questions, but counterpunching instead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You were also on video outside The White House protesting with a group called Casa, where Antifa members were. Does that mean you're a member of Antifa?
Did you take money from Reid Hoffman campaign donations? Who was a huge Epstein friend? Why did you fight for years? Why did you fight to not -- disclose the flight logs, Senator Durbin?
I don't know the answer, Senator.
SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): You do know the answer.
BONDI: Don't call me a liar.
WELCH: I didn't call you a liar.
BONDI: You just said, I know the answer. I said I don't know the answer. You have to talk to Director Patel.
You are ordering this proceeding now, you sure didn't have order when you stormed Secretary Noem --
SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Mr. Chairman --
BONDI: -- at a press conference in California, did you?
You shut down the government -- you voted to shut down the government. And you're sitting here, our law enforcement officers aren't being paid. They're out there working to protect you.
I wish you love Chicago as much as you hate President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Of the many controversies the Justice Department has weathered in Bondi's eight months on the job, the recent indictment of former FBI Director James Comey ranks near or at the top. Democratic Senators repeatedly pressed Bondi about the President's influence on what they say is his weaponization of the DOJ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)\
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): The Truth Social post on September 20th, 2025, in which the President said, we can't delay any longer, Pam, using your name, not bringing criminal charges are killing our reputation, his words and credibility. And then goes on to tell you to prosecute a member of this committee, to prosecute the Attorney General of New York, and to prosecute James Comey. Do you consider that a directive to the Justice Department?
BONDI: Senator Klobuchar, President Trump is the most transparent President in American history, and I don't think he said anything that he hasn't said for years.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): The night before James Comey's indictment, you had dinner with President of the United States. Pretty intimate group.
BONDI: Actually, there were a lot of people there that night. That's a great picture.
BLUMENTHAL: Was James Comey discussed at that dinner?
BONDI: I love that picture, that's a great picture and there were a lot of people there that night. I think the entire Cabinet was there.
BLUMENTHAL: Did you discuss James Comey with the President of United States? He was sitting just to your left.
BONDI: Well, two seats down. Yes, two seats down. And I am not going to discuss any conversations I had or not have with the. President of the United States.
BLUMENTHAL: Because the American public is entitled to know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Democrats did not get any closer to learning more about President Trump's role in Comey's indictment another massive controversy that senators focused on the Jeffrey Epstein saga.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): It appears that that Secretary Lutnick was Mr. Epstein's next door neighbor. In fact their townhomes shared a wall. And the reporter that was asking -- talking to Mr. Lutnick she asked how other prominent men could have been associated with Epstein when Mr. Lutnick could immediately sense that he was a "pervert" and then Secretary Lutnick said, or rather, the reporter said, did they see it and ignore it? Do you remember that from the interview?
[20:05:03]
BONDI: I do.
KENNEDY: And Commerce Secretary Lutnick said, no. They participated. Have you interviewed Secretary Lutnick?
BONDI: No, Senator.
KENNEDY: Do you plan to?
BONDI: If he wants to talk to the FBI or the FBI wants to talk to him, that is more than an honor.
KENNEDY: Don't you think you ought to talk to him after this interview?
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): You pushed the FBI to review approximately 100,000 Epstein related records on an arbitrarily short deadline in March, and the FBI was directed to flag any documents that mentioned President Trump. Nothing came of that review until July, when DOJ and FBI released an unsigned memo stating, "There's no incriminating client list."
So, who gave the order to flag records related to President Trump?
BONDI: To flag records for President Trump?
DURBIN: To flag any records which included his name?
BONDI: I'm not going to discuss anything about that with you, Senator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Another topic that Attorney General Bondi did not want to discuss the case of President Trump's border czar and a fast food bag filled with $50,000.00.
Tom Homan was reportedly recorded accepting the bag of cash last year before he became border czar from undercover FBI agents in a sting operation. In return, Homan allegedly promised to help secure government contracts related to border security. While the investigation started during President Biden's term, it was dropped a few weeks ago by this Justice Department.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): What became of the $50,000.00? Did the FBI get it back?
BONDI: Mr. Whitehouse, excuse me, Senator Whitehouse, you're welcome to talk to the FBI.
WHITEHOUSE: They report to you, can't you answer this question?
BONDI: Senator Whitehouse, you're welcome to discuss this with Director Patel.
WHITEHOUSE: Did Homan keep the $50,000.00?
BONDI: As Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche recently stated the investigation of Mr. Homan was --
WHITEHOUSE: Never mind, never mind. I can see I'm not going to get a straight answer from.
WELCH: If you don't know, why don't you know whether there was a tape and video?
BONDI: Senator, I believe that was resolved prior to my confirmation as Attorney General.
WELCH: Do you think that it is of public interest for the people to know what happened to the 50 grand that the FBI turned over to Homan?
BONDI: Did you hear what I just said? That was resolved prior to my confirmation as Attorney General? That's why I said I would not know.
WELCH: It is not resolved. There's $50,000.00, Homan has it, or somebody has it. Do you have no interest in knowing where it is?
BONDI: I am not going to sit here and slander Tom Homan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The White House was reportedly cheering the Attorney General's nearly five hours of contentious testimony, calling it a master class.
Joining me now to discuss New York Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman. He's a member of the House Judiciary and Homeland Security Committees. Congressman, if it was a master class, what was the lesson being taught here.
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): That the Department of Justice is a complete political animal and a political arm of Donald Trump. And, you know, the senators tried to get at what is so obviously a weaponization and partisanship in the Department of Justice.
But all you needed to do to know that it is a completely partisan arm of Donald Trump is listen to Pam Bondi's testimony and the way that she spoke with such disrespect and disdain to the senators, especially the Democratic senators, the way she personally insulted them, the way that she did not believe she owed them answers to questions because she clearly does not believe in the separation of powers, checks and balances, and Congress' constitutional role to conduct oversight.
So, we can get into the details of why President Trump's directive to her that is in writing is a gross politicization of the Department of Justice in a way that it has never been done before. But you don't need to look any further than those five hours of testimony to know that she's just a partisan hack right now.
COOPER: It certainly seemed like she was testifying for an audience of one and that audience of one is the President of the United States.
GOLDMAN: Of course, every single Cabinet member. I mean, it's like when they go in the Cabinet room and it's like Kim Jong-un is there, and everybody claps and has to go around and give praise to the king, Donald Trump. It's all theater just to please him and all he cares about is revenge and retribution, that's why he is firing U.S. attorneys who refuse to charge unwarranted, unsupported, meritless cases against his political enemies. And it appears as if it's going -- may happen again with Attorney General Letitia James, even though there have been a number of career prosecutors, including the chief of the section conducting that investigation, who have said that there is insufficient evidence.
[20:10:13]
I don't care what they want to say about President Biden and his Justice Department. They can't point to a single piece of evidence that anyone resigned because they refused to follow political orders, or that there were any directives. The fact of the matter is that this Department of Justice has gone over the cliff and is not the Department of Justice that I worked ten years for.
COOPER: I did think the questions were interesting about Tom Homan and like what happened to the $50,000.00? Was it returned to the FBI? Did he declare it on his tax forms, if he still has it?
You also referenced when Senator Klobuchar asked the Attorney General whether the social media post from the President urging her to prosecute Comey was a directive to the DOJ, which Bondi replied that President Trump has, "the most transparent President in history. I don't think he said anything he hasn't said for years." Do you think that could be used in court in Comey's case?
GOLDMAN: Well, I think it's interesting that that she says he's the most transparent President when he is the reason why the Epstein files have not been released. There's that document, that tweet or whatever it was to Bondi will absolutely be Exhibit A in a vindictive and selective prosecution motion that I would expect James Comey's lawyers would file. If there is a case of vindictive or selective prosecution, I can't imagine one that is stronger than this one.
But the idea that he is so transparent when she won't even answer a question about the Epstein files, she was the one who in February said they would be released in 24 hours. She was demanding Kash Patel write a memo as to what happened and then all of a sudden, she says, there's no credible evidence. And note that term, Anderson, that's very important, because that's what she also says about Tom Homan. They determined there's no credible evidence. That is a subjective determination. It is not that there's no evidence.
Now, a videotape is the most credible evidence you can find, perhaps a tweet is close second, but this is their sleight of hand to say that they're subjective determination that the evidence is not credible is the reason why she doesn't want to address Tom Homan, and she won't release the Epstein files.
COOPER: Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you very much.
Joining me now, former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin and former U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Georgia, Michael Moore. Alyssa, I mean, just in terms of performance, did this hearing have anything to do with providing real information to the American people, or was it just a performance?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, this was a performance for an audience of one. And I think in Pam Bondi, Donald Trump finally has the Attorney General that he's always wanted, which is somebody who's going to be fierce defender of his, who's going to really just essentially end this separation that's existed between the Department of Justice and the White House. And I think that this is a very -- a big departure from the first administration, where there was still an effort to inform Congress when Cabinet Secretaries, when Attorneys General sat down with the House and the Senate.
I staffed a number of those briefings, but we've seen time and time again so far in this second Trump term that it seems much more about driving viral moments for Trump's base and with, of course, pleasing the President. I think she did just that from a purely performance perspective of making Donald Trump happy. I think Pam Bondi knocked it out of the park.
COOPER: Michael, I mean, what did the Attorney General's comments in front of Congress' signal about the state of the Justice Department? Alyssa, you know, as is rightfully saying, essentially, now this is Donald Trump's Justice Department. She has made that very clear. But the ramifications of that -- that's I mean, that's really not something we have seen in a very long time. I mean, I'm not even sure under Nixon, it was this way.
MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Yes, I'm glad to be with you. There's no question that this is not normal. There's nothing that she did today that was normal and nothing that she did that was up to par for the dignity of the position that she holds as the Attorney General. I think somehow she's forgotten that she's supposedly the Attorney General for all the country, and not just for the occupant of The White House.
This was really just a one-ring circus and there was one person sitting in the bleachers, and that was that was the President watching this show. And frankly, I felt like that her recalcitrance and her rudeness were really betraying her lack of preparation and competence on some of these issues. She just does not have a grasp or the leadership on some of these issues that we've seen out of former attorneys general, and she's unwilling to say things she's wrong about what she can and can't say. She gave some answers that were just incorrect, in my opinion.
And so, this really tears down the norms of the department, and it tears down the wall that has existed for great reason. And that is so that prosecutors do not feel a political pressure to make decisions about the future of those people they're investigating. And she's willing to just throw that to the wind. Also, should she -- so she'll get a pat on the back from The White House?
[20:15:33]
COOPER: Alyssa, I mean, do you think Comey is just the first of the President's perceived enemies to face, you know, arraignments? To face charges?
GRIFFIN: I think that's very likely and there have been others who have been targeted and investigated, like Miles Taylor and Chris Krebs and others. But listen, I think anyone who believes that Trump wasn't going to go after his perceived enemies was fooled. This was always going to be the playbook. He telegraphed this on the campaign trail. I think the list almost writes itself.
But I've said many times when it comes to Comey, I think you talk to any smart prosecutor and they think it's very unlikely that you're going to see a conviction in this case for a number of reasons. But I don't think that's necessarily Donald Trump's goal.
I think that Donald Trump wants to first and foremost intimidate those who have been detractors of his, and to not wanting to speak out as aggressively against him. But I also, frankly think he wants people to be gummed up in the legal system. He still feels like he spent his four years out of office fighting legal battles, tied up in legal bills and dealing with attorneys and in and out of courtrooms. And he wants those who were big opponents of his to kind of experience that same thing, regardless of if it actually comes to any kind of a criminal conviction down the road.
COOPER: Michael, two federal prosecutors from North Carolina are now listed as representing the Justice Department, along with the acting U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan, who's not a prosecutor, has no prosecutorial experience in the Comey case. Is that unusual to bring in help from another district?
MOORE: Yes, it is unusual. I mean, assistant U.S. attorneys or prosecutors within the district take an oath in that district, and they're authorized to prosecute cases in their home district. There's actually a federal law that says you have to live within so many miles of the district borders. So it's unusual. It's not completely unheard of. You can have lawyers appointed as special assistant United States attorneys, but it's unusual to bring somebody in, especially in a case like this.
This case and these cases have nothing to do with, in my mind, with getting a conviction. This is just purely a distraction. And as long as we're talking about Comey, as long as, you know, then we're not talking about his other failings that have happened over the last many months, whether it be the prices, whether it be the tariff failures, whether it be the Epstein case, whatever it may be, so he can just tie things up. And I think that's what he feels like his first administration was, is that he got tied up in the court system and that, you know, in investigations. And so, now he's going to share the wealth.
The problem with that is, I think at some point you're going to see some federal judges with some backbone that will actually step in and stop some of the nonsense that's coming out of the administration, out of the department, certainly out of the FBI. And even as we think about, you know, the immigration stuff, I mean, were starting to see finally, some judges that are willing to, you know, have a backbone under their robe.
COOPER: Yes, Michael Moore, Alyssa Farah Griffin, thanks very much.
Up next, President Trump's plan to deploy federalized National Guard troops in Chicago and Portland to Mr. Moore's point there, he claims crime is rampant in both cities. But what would the Guard troops actually be doing? We'll look at that. Our Shimon Prokupecz is on the ground in Portland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As night falls, tension begins to fill the air.
PROKUPECZ (on camera): You see the officers are coming out now because a car is coming out. And every time a car comes out, these officers come out. They push the crowd back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:23:11]
COOPER: Tonight, members of the Texas National Guard are now stationed at a military facility outside Chicago. They've been mobilized by President Trump, who has repeatedly said that crime is out of control in the city. Now, we're learning what they'll be tasked with. Late today, an official with the U.S. Border Patrol in Chicago spoke with CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Facility protection, obviously, is going to be front and center to that, whether it's the Broadview Facility or any other federal facility that we that may need protection. The National Guard will be deployed there, and again, that frees up agents that are now helping to protect those facilities. So, it's facility protection and then quick response forces if needed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Illinois and Chicago are suing to stop the deployment of federalized National Guard troops. A federal judge is going to hear the case Thursday. Meantime, a judge in Oregon has temporarily halted the deployment of the National Guard in Portland. But the President said again today that he'll consider invoking the Insurrection Act if the courts block him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's been invoked before, as you know. If you look at Chicago, Chicago's a great city where there's a lot of crime. And if the governor can't do the job, well do the job. It's all very simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The President is getting support from some Senate Republicans who say he needs to keep all options on the table.
The limited clashes between protesters and law enforcement in both cities this past weekend are adding fuel to the Presidents arguments that troops are needed. We'll check in with Shimon Prokupecz in Portland in a moment. But we want to begin with CNN's Omar Jimenez in Chicago. So, we heard the specifics from Border Patrol Command about what the guard is expected to do in Chicago, basically protecting buildings. Is that what local officials are expecting, primarily facility protection?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm sure based on what we've heard from local officials to this point, that seems to be one of the clearest indications of what they can expect at this point, that if these National Guard troops are deployed to federal buildings, that it frees up agents to do other things. But what we've seen over the course of today is essentially the beginning of this chapter that we had heard had been coming for quite some time. We've been tracking the movements here at this Army Reserve Training Center outside Chicago, and really over the course of the day, I mean, first of all, they put up this fence in the hours after the Texas National Guard deployed here.
[20:25:29]
And, you can actually see maybe with these lights, there's a few military uniformed personnel coming in and out of these barracks, at least as what they appear to be earlier. There was a lot more movement as well, as we sort of started seeing them to arrive here in this area. The question, though, is now that the Texas National Guard is here, what will the scope of their deployment actually look like? Will it just be to protect federal property and personnel, as we sort of have heard to this point, or will it be more community facing, which has been one of the concerns from folks in the community who have had multiple run ins with federal immigration enforcement to this point.
So, that's one of the lingering questions now that we know they're here, what's next -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Omar Jimenez, thanks very much. Joining me now, former Chicago Mayor, Rahm Emanuel. I mean, does this make any sense to you? This is now deployment of the National Guard, not for crime in Chicago. It's for facility protection to free up resources of, I guess, ICE.
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Look, public safety is a serious issue and I don't think it's being dealt very seriously by the President, or his effort. As far as I can tell, he will never reached out to Superintendent Snelling, a very good superintendent, and asked him, okay, what do you need.
COOPER: Superintendent of Chicago or in any city for that matter, or Los Angeles or Portland, or any city, what do you need? I mean, the basic strategy of reducing crime is putting more police on the street and getting kids, gangs and guns off the street.
There's a ton of things federal government could partner with a local who know the area and National Guard from Texas, they don't know Grand Crossing, they don't know Inglewood. They don't know Woodlawn. They don't know any of these communities.
I think defunding the police was a stupid idea. I think sending the National Guard is a ridiculous idea. It's about community policing, knowing the neighborhoods, knowing the residents of that neighborhood and working with them.
And I think this is a -- something the President has always wanted to do in search of a reason for doing it.
COOPER: It seems also now an equation of, you know, there was the American carnage the first time around. I mean, this is an extension of, you know, the cities are hellholes. They're falling apart. Even though David Axelrod was on the program last night reading what the Trump Hotel was advertising in Chicago and it sounds lovely there right now, according to the Trump Hotel. But this is equating crime also then with immigration and immigrants and that's the linkage here.
EMANUEL: Anderson, everybody wants law and order. None of this is following the law. And it's definitely creating more disorder than order -- as simple as that. And, you know, I'm sure David said this, but his condo is right there on the Riverwalk. I mean, his hotel and his building and condos. Condos are going for millions of dollars. That's not disorder, that's not crime under control.
There's a crime problem, full stop. There's a public safety problem. As somebody who visited kids in hospitals. There's a way for the federal government to say, we're going to fund and train police officers and recruit them for you. We're going to pay you and help you with resources for kids for after school hours. So, they have a mentor doing athletic, academic, artistic activity. We're going to prosecute the three or four percent who are overwhelmingly committing overwhelmingly the amount of crime and help go after the gang members that are really the problem.
There is a menu of things the federal government could go to any police chief, any mayor, and say, how do we help you? How do we partner with you?
COOPER: That's not what this is about.
EMANUEL: Zero, this isn't even close. It's not even a second cousin, this is not -- no. This is something the President always wanted to do because he wants to own these cities and make them something. And that is part of his image that he could call out the National Guard.
The other thing is, the Chicago Police Department is 12,000 officers, 200 officers, not even one of the 22 districts. It doesn't even add up. So the idea you're going to bring public safety to a city where the problem is not just about police officers, that's a central piece of this or law enforcement, but there's another set of components of prosecution investments in after school programs, a whole set of things that the government can do. But 200 Guardsmen from Texas who don't know any of the community or any of the residents of Chicago, are not going to do anything on public safety, and they're definitely not going to do anything on immigration efforts.
COOPER: I mean, there have been some who suggested --
EMANUEL: And I mean that, when the President said, we're going to go after criminal elements. That is different than what he's doing, taking people that are following the law, going to court, following the procedures of law and nabbing them. That's why I said this is not either fighting crime or enforcing the immigration laws accordingly.
COOPER: There have been some who've said that they think this is sort of an idea of like normalizing the presence of U.S. military forces or National Guard forces in major cities.
EMANUEL: I don't know, let me -- this is bringing back my old White House days. Right about now across the National Security apparatus of the White House, State Department, Defense Department, Pentagon is the national defense strategy that's put out in the next couple of months. That's going to say something about China, weapons of mass destruction, Iran, Russia.
Are you going to say in that document that the American cities are the equal threat to our security, like China, Iran, and weapons of mass destruction? And if you're not, then what is this? And if you are then you're going to follow through with the of President of the United States that the cities are --we're going to use them as training grounds.
[20:30:59]
As a former ambassador to Japan, we used to organize Australia, Japan, Korea, India, in major military exercises with the President. You don't -- with the United States rather. You don't do it in American cities.
COOPER: Yes. Rahm Emanuel, thanks very much.
EMANUEL Thank you.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
Up next, we take you to Portland, the other city where the President wants to put guard troops. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem visited the facility this afternoon. The President has said it's burning to the ground, Portland, he was saying.
Ahead, what our Shimon Prokupecz is seeing for himself after this exchange from our Kaitlan Collins and the White House Press Secretary today.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, THE SOURCE: But no local officials that you can point to that have said we need the National Guard. Because I spoke to the police chief of Portland last week. He said that the President's claims just don't match up with what's happening on the ground.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would encourage you as a reporter to go on the ground and to take a look at it for yourself.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:26]
COOPER: We took you to Chicago a moment ago. Want to take you to Portland now. The other flashpoint in the battle over deploying National Guard troops to Democratic led cities.
This afternoon, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem visited the city's ICE facility going to the rooftop in Portland to get a look at the protesters below. The video is posted on X by conservative media personality Benny Johnson. And law enforcement source says that Noem also met with the city's police chief who opposes deployment of the guard in Portland.
Our Kaitlan Collins talked to the chief recently. His take on Portland is different than the President's, who said the city is, quote, "on fire." Kaitlan asked the White House Press Secretary about different viewpoints on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
COLLINS: But no local officials that you can point to that have said we need the National Guard, because I spoke to the police chief of Portland last week. He said that the President's claims just don't match up with what's happening on the ground.
LEAVITT: I would encourage you as a reporter to go on the ground and to take a look at it for yourself. Because there's been many members of the press, not press in this room, but independent journalists, some of whom will be inviting to the White House very soon to share their stories. Because they have been in the middle of these riots and they have witnessed the anarchy that is taking place night after night.
It's on video. You should play it on your show. You have a great opportunity in primetime on CNN to show your audience.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Well, keep them honest. Our Shimon Prokupecz is in Portland. Here's what he's been saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): It's yet another image from another day at the ICE facility in Portland that doesn't fully tell the story here.
Protests start small during the day. A man in a Capybara costume fits the city's unofficial slogan, Keep Portland Weird. About a dozen people hold signs and play music. The entire protest zone is less than a block long.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It looks like a war zone. PROKUPECZ (voice-over): President Trump's depiction has locals curious.
KRISTI O'NEILL, PORTLAND RESIDENT: We wanted to see the war zone. So we found some coffee on the way and we talked to some really nice people and it's really peaceful.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): As night falls, tension begins to fill the air.
PROKUPECZ: You see the officers are coming out now because a car is coming out. And every time a car comes out, these officers come out and they push the crowd back. And that's usually when there's some altercation. It's when they come out, they push the crowd back as they wait for this car to come through.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Federal agents monitored the crowd from the roof, at times firing pepper balls on the pavement below.
PROKUPECZ: You can see there the pepper balls are coming from the roof. So on this side, you have a lot of the Trump supporters and pro- administration and pro-ICE people. And there have been some clashes back and forth with some of the other protesters. And they say that someone, one of them, protesters, burned an American flag.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Keep in mind, this is all happening on less than a single block, not even in the city center.
TRUMP: Portland is burning to the ground.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): The rest of Portland is not in chaos. The streetcars are running, guitarists play outside the famed Powell's bookstore, and there's a guided tour in a Pioneer Courthouse Square.
If you weren't looking for it, you'd never know anything was happening on that one city block outside the ICE building.
REP. MAXINE DEXTER (D), OREGON: I need people to not take the bait.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): That's why Maxine Dexter wants all these protesters to leave the ICE facility. The Democratic congresswoman from Portland supports their message, but fears they're playing into President Trump's hands.
The question is, are we being strategic? Are we being effective? And I would argue that being down there, taking a risk, that you become a player in this reality TV vision that Donald Trump has of Portland is a mistake.
[20:40:11]
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): It seems unlikely she'll get her wish. Protester Justin Allen doesn't think any of these people are going away.
JUSTIN ALLEN, PROTESTER: So long as there are these threats from the most powerful man in the world, people, maybe not myself every day, but other people will show up. And I don't think there's any way, nor is it a wise decision to attain peace via hiding.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): So for now, the likely images you'll see out of Portland are these.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Shimon joins us now. So I understand Noem gave an interview to Fox late tonight. What did she say?
PROKUPECZ (on-camera): Yes, and she actually just left this area, which has now been completely shut down for several hours. She just left. We saw her leaving.
And what she basically -- she had some tough words on some of the people who she's been meeting with here in Portland. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: One of the things I've been dealing with all day here in Portland is a bunch of pansies that are elected into political office who won't make a decision to keep their citizens safe.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the TV, this is your 15 minutes of fame.
PROKUPECZ (on-camera): And so, Anderson, the thing is, local officials here, the police department chief here, as well as the governor, have met with Noem today. And they're really trying to take kind of a diplomatic tone here. They're trying to get safety here.
They're trying to, most importantly, get the message to the White House that they do not want the military here. And they're trying to figure out a way how to make it safer around here so that that doesn't happen. Of course, all of this is now in court. And we'll see how this sort of unfolds here in the court system. Anderson?
COOPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much.
COOPER: Coming up next, the growing air traffic control shortage linked to the government shutdown. And when the shutdown ends, will furloughed workers get their payback? The President was asked about that today and his response is raising questions.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
TRUMP: For the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of and we'll take care of them in a different way.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
[20:46:50] COOPER: A week into the government shutdown, travel delays are spreading at major airports. The FAA is warning there won't be enough air traffic controllers at Chicago O'Hare's International Airport. Controllers are also staying home in Nashville. Other airports are impacted.
Meanwhile, a draft memo from the White House budget office is suggesting that furloughed workers don't need to get back pay as they have in previous shutdowns. The President was asked about that today.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
TRUMP: I would say it depends on who we're talking about. I can tell you this. The Democrats have put a lot of people in great risk and jeopardy, but it really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of and we'll take care of them in a different way.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Joining us with more on this, CNN's Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, who's been naughty and nice in the President's list there?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, that is very much an open question. But one thing that is clear, federal workers again are caught right in the middle of this. But the President, as he was asked about, our workers going to be given back pay, was anything but clear.
In fact, the White House, though, just a few days ago said they would. And one of the reasons why is that President Trump, after that long shutdown back in 2019, he actually signed a bill into law that guaranteed government workers a right to back pay. But now members of his own Office of Management and Budget are saying, no, that's not their interpretation of it.
So the President clearly left that open. But, Anderson, the reason why he is doing this, the White House is trying to apply maximum pressure to the federal workers and then by extension to Democratic senators, trying to use this as a pressure point.
But it's also coming as the White House is talking much less about those mass firings. Several days ago, the President was talking about that in virtually every breath. But now seeing some of the political downside of this, of course, Republican senators on Capitol Hill are effectively urging the White House to stop talking about these mass firings.
They believe it's clouding the message, if you will. But from the President's point of view, he said, sure, some federal workers will be paid. Of course, military members will be left to open the possibility that some will not. The question of who? It's anyone's guess.
COOPER: And what about the effect on air travel across the nation? Do -- any indication how bad like it? ZELENY: Anderson, that is one of the most interesting -- well, that's one of the most interesting things about this, because you'll remember in that 35-day shutdown back in 2018, 2019, it was the air traffic controllers that really effectively moved toward the ending of the shutdown because the White House got very uncomfortable by this.
But we are now seeing a map, as you can see there of cities across the country. Nashville at this hour is one of the cities, as well as Chicago O'Hare International Airport, Las Vegas, Boston, Newark. So these are major air traffic control centers where the workers are simply not showing up.
They're calling in sick, most likely. That's what the Transportation Secretary said. So, Anderson, the White House is definitely keeping an eye on this. You'll remember it was the air traffic controllers and the pressure they built that largely brought the shutdown to an end back in 2019.
COOPER: Yes.
ZELENY: Anderson?
COOPER: Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thanks.
Just ahead, as Israelis pause today to remember the victims, the deadly October 7th attacks is word that some progress may be made in peace negotiations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:57]
COOPER: A memorial siren wailed across Israel today as the country marked the second anniversary of the terror attacks of October 7th, where Hamas militants murdered 1,200 people and took 250 others hostage.
[20:55:09]
Tonight, a source tells CNN that Israel, Hamas and their mediators meeting for two days in Egypt are making some progress toward a ceasefire in Gaza and work on President Trump's 20-point peace plan. His representatives, Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, are expected to arrive in Egypt tomorrow.
And a source says Ron Dermer, Israel's Minister of Strategic Affairs, is likely to join tomorrow as well. Major points of negotiation also include the release of all the remaining hostages and the return of some Palestinian prisoners.
I want to discuss with Thomas Friedman, New York Times Foreign Affairs Columnist, who's author of among many books, "From Beirut to Jerusalem."
So, Tom, you've called President Trump's peace proposal a smart plan for turning a bomb crater into a launchpad for peace. You also say it's a long shot at best. What are, to you, the biggest obstacles?
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, NEW YORK TIMES FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST: Well, Anderson, I think there's a decent chance that the first part of this plan, the release of Israeli hostages, ceasefire for Gazans, withdrawal, partial withdrawal by Israel to different lines inside of Gaza, an exchange of prisoners, I think there's a good chance that that part of the plan will be implemented.
I think where it's going to get very difficult is when you get to the next phases. How exactly will Gaza be demilitarized? What will be Hamas's future role in Gaza? How far back will Israel pull its troops and to exactly which lines to the border or something short of that?
I think that second phase is going to be a lot more difficult to resolve. And with that second phase is also supposed to come a basically a provisional government and army of Palestinian technocrats overseen by a coalition of Arab states and the United States. So it gets really complicated after stage one. I hope it can work all the way, but we'll just wait and see.
COOPER: In terms of Hamas actually giving up power, do you think they're willing to do that?
FRIEDMAN: You know, if there were a Nobel Peace Prize for stupidity, it would certainly go to Hamas. Let's look at what Hamas's demand is right now. It's for a ceasefire and all Israeli troops out of Gaza.
What did Hamas have on October 6, 2023? They had a ceasefire and all Israeli troops out of Gaza. They put their people, not to mention Israel, but they devastated their own people. Tens of thousands died in this war.
Hamas offered them no shelters, tunnels. And Gaza has been completely devastated. They launched a war of annihilation. And the only maps they came with were maps where to find more Jews to kill.
Unfortunately, that triggered an Israeli response of equal ferocity of basically devastating Hamas and not particularly caring how many civilians got killed in the process with no map or plan for the morning after. And so I'm glad President Trump has jumped in here to try to stop this war and hopefully, in a good Don Rumsfeldian sense, enlarge it and create, Anderson, what I think is the only way out of this.
And that's going to be some kind of international mandate for Gaza, Arab, Palestinian, American, European, and maybe even for the future in the West Bank. Because trust between these two communities has been so short (ph) now. This problem can no longer be solved at the level of these two communities.
It's going to have to be -- if it's going to be resolved, it's going to require some kind of international force that will make up for the complete absence of trust now between these two people to live in peace together on their own.
COOPER: I remember two years ago, there was a lot of talk about after the war, there would be a reckoning for the failures in Israel on October 7th and a reckoning for Netanyahu. Do you think that will ever come?
FRIEDMAN: Yes. Their Nobel Prize for selfishness, he would have won that since this war, so many aspects of it from the Israeli side were dictated by his own personal needs. Let's remember, President Biden negotiated a lot of these details of this agreement back in December during the transition, and later with the help and contribution of Steve Witkoff.
This deal, a lot of it --
COOPER: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: -- could have been had back then, was not politically convenient for Netanyahu. So I do believe if the war ends that there will be a reckoning, there will be a commission of inquiry. And I know that that concerns Netanyahu because the best political analyst in Israel told me so. That's Netanyahu, he's not wanted the war (ph) and because he knows what's waiting for him.
COOPER: Tom Friedman, it's always good to talk to you. Thanks very much. A lot to look for in the coming days out of the region.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
