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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump: Israel and Hamas Signed Off on "First Phase" of Gaza Deal; Israeli Source: Hostages Expected to be Freed Saturday or Sunday; Netanyahu to Convene Government Thursday to Ratify Gaza Deal, Trump Says Israel & Hamas Signed Off on First Phase of Gaza Deal; Israeli Source Says Hostages Expected to Be Freed Saturday or Sunday; President Trump Hosts White House Roundtable on Antifa After Designating It a Domestic Terrorist Organization; Kristi Noem Claims Oregon and Illinois Leaders Ignore What's Going on; Appeals Court Blocks National Guard Deployment in Oregon; Arrest Made in Connection With Deadly L.A. Wildfire. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 08, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No mistakes, just happy accidents.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It is pretty incredible, though, and you've got to think people would want to, you know, ones that were made on T.V. have that extra provenance, right?
FOREMAN: Yes, 30 minutes apiece, 30 minutes apiece for those paintings, that's pretty fast work.
BURNETT: And anyone, you know, as you said, popular during the pandemic. But just the connection that people have, even hearing that voice, right, there's something about it, that sense of calm.
FOREMAN: And he had a squirrel in his pocket, that same --
BURNETT: Yes, which didn't bite him and there's a miracle, it says everything you need to know.
Tom, thank you so much.
And thanks to all of you. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:37]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": We begin with the major breaking news tonight. President Trump announcing a peace deal between Israel and Hamas, at least what he calls the first phase of one. He says it will bring about a ceasefire in Gaza and the release of the hostages held by Hamas.
Now, the President posting on his social media a short time ago, "I'm very proud to announce that Israel and Hamas have both signed off on the first phase of our peace plan. This means that all of the hostages will be released very soon, and Israel will withdraw their troops to an agreed upon line as the first steps toward a strong, durable and everlasting peace." "All parties will be treated fairly. This is a great day for the Arab and Muslim world, Israel, all surrounding nations in the United States of America. And we thank the mediators from Qatar, Egypt, and Turkey who worked with us to make this historic and unprecedented event happen. Blessed are the peacemakers."
Now, there's been talk of progress for days, but events began unfolding quickly late this afternoon at the White House, as Secretary of State Marco Rubio, as you see there, handed a note to the President while the President was holding a roundtable event.
Secretary of State Rubio whispered a message to the President, who then said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I was just given a note by the Secretary of State saying that were very close to a deal in the Middle East, and they're going to need me pretty quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Secretary Rubio was not even part of that roundtable discussion, but he entered the room and shortly after sitting down, he composed that handwritten note which an Associated Press photographer snapped before he handed it to the President, where it appeared to tell the President that he Gaza deal was very close with those two words underlined and that the President needed to approve a Truth Social post soon so that the President can announce the deal first.
Right after that announcement tonight, Prime Minister Netanyahu said that, "With God's help, Israel will bring all the hostages home."
Tonight, an Israeli source tells CNN's Jeremy Diamond, the hostages are expected to be released on Saturday or Sunday. President Trump says he's considering traveling to the middle east, possibly this weekend, but he didn't say to which country or countries he might visit.
We've got our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, with us, along with CNN's Jerusalem correspondent, Jeremy Diamond. I want to start with Kaitlan with the latest out of the White House. What more are you learning about this deal and when the President could head to the middle east?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, it was almost two hours to the minute after that moment where secretary Rubio handed the President that note earlier today here at the White House, that the President did announce on Truth Social that Hamas and Israel had agreed to a ceasefire and hostage release, which we were expecting to happen in the coming days.
Though the details were not laid out in the President's post, I'm told since he left the state dining room earlier today that he's basically been in the Oval Office on the phone ever since, and that includes a call that he had with two of his top negotiators who were in Egypt today, Anderson, with those top negotiators for Israel and Hamas, that's Jared Kushner and his Special Envoy, Steve Witkoff.
The President had a lengthy call with them, I'm told, and they were going over that Truth Social post that was obviously very carefully worded before the President issued it just a little while ago, a little over an hour ago. And so, the questions are, what happens next here? Because this is a huge and long awaited breakthrough here at The White House and the question is, does it end with the culmination of this two-year war that has been raging in Gaza and that has been at the President's top of his to do list ever since he took office back in January to bring this war to an end.
And so, obviously, the key parts of this are the release of the hostages and also the release of Palestinian prisoners that is expected to coincide with the release of the hostages, many of them who are believed to be dead, that are being held in Gaza, but about 20 who are expected to be living.
One thing that the statement, though, does not make any mention of, is the other parts of this peace proposal that the President laid out last month, one of those key sticking points has been for Hamas to disarm and to not have any role in governing Gaza or running Gaza, there is no mention of that in the President's Truth Social tonight, and obviously that was always expected to be a thornier issue among many that are laid out in that 20-point peace plan. And so, that is the question going forward of what that looks like and how they work through that.
But what we do know right now, Anderson, is that the President is expected to travel to the Middle East in the coming days. It's not clear exactly where or when yet.
Obviously, this came together really quickly and The White House has been putting all that together. But The White House did announce earlier when announcing that Trump has a physical on Friday that he is considering travel to the Middle East soon -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Kaitlan, thanks. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source."
I want to turn right now to Jeremy Diamond, who is in Tel Aviv.
So, what do you know about how this finally came together and exactly the President talking about the first phase of this, which is a ceasefire, the hostages alive and dead, being returned. What does Israel have to give besides prisoners? Do they withdraw at a certain point, or do they withdraw immediately to a certain point?
[20:05:28]
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, there will be an initial withdrawal of Israeli troops to lines of control within the Gaza Strip, basically pulling back from parts of Gaza that they currently occupy, but not leaving the Gaza strip entirely. That is the first phase of an Israeli withdrawal that is expected to be even more of a complete withdrawal further down the line when the next phases of this agreement are indeed completed. That withdrawal of Israeli troops expected to take place before those hostages are released, but it will all happen in very, very quick succession.
We expect that as the Israeli Cabinet meets tomorrow to approve this deal, that will quickly set in motion the potential release of those hostages, which could happen as early, I'm as Saturday or Sunday.
We know as well that while President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu did not directly address whether this will actually lead to an end of the war in Gaza, we are hearing not quite clearly from other parties to this agreement.
Hamas has said that this agreement stipulates an end of the war and, critically, the Qatari mediators are also saying the exact same thing, with a spokesman for the Qatari Foreign Ministry saying that this phase one agreement will lead to an end of the war in Gaza.
And I can tell you, Anderson, from speaking with sources all week as this was developing, there was no scenario in which Hamas was going to give up and release all of these 48 hostages up front without some kind of assurance from the United States, in particular, that this deal will actually lead to an end of the war in Gaza and the eventual withdrawal of Israeli troops.
But it is notable to see that this is being announced as the first phase of this agreement. That may also be for the Israeli Prime Minister's political benefit here in Israel, where there is opposition from his right wing allies in government to a deal that would end the war in Gaza all together. So, keep an eye on that in the coming days and weeks.
COOPER: Would Hamas remain in power officially? I mean, there was talk of them having to turn over weapons in later phases. Is that still something being discussed? Well, we do know that Hamas has said that they are willing to hand over power in Gaza to a transitional authority of Palestinian technocrats who would run the Gaza Strip. That was not announced tonight as part of this phase one agreement. But presumably the overarching, you know, the broad strokes of that have been agreed to, we simply have not been told of that and it hasn't been publicly announced.
But that is indeed part of the next phases of this, Hamas disarming, which, again, also not discussed here. Hamas giving up power, handing over power to this transitional authority and in coordination with that, the Israeli military also pulling back from the territory in Gaza that it controls and giving up power in those areas to this transitional authority as well.
And so, again, even though these details were not announced, there's no question that they were being negotiated in recent days. But obviously time was of the essence here as President Trump wanted to get this deal done quickly. The Israeli government, also seeking to get the release of the hostages. First up front and so that is the first phase of this that are moving forward. But again, if you look at the different statements, the Israelis not focusing on this, the fact that this is going to lead to an end of the war, but the Qataris and Hamas very much making clear that that will be the end game here -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond, appreciate it. Thank you.
Joining me now, CNN National Security analyst and former Deputy Director of National Intelligence Beth Sanner and CNN global affairs analyst and former Middle East and North Africa Coordinator for the National Security Council, Brett McGurk.
Brett, so what do you make of what the President has said in his social media post that they've signed off on the first phase of the peace plan? What does that mean to you?
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Anderson, momentous day. There's not much good news in the world. This is great news. I am trying to hold it together, honestly. I worked on this issue very long time. We put together that three phase deal in January. This is basically what was to be the second phase of that. This does end the war, but does so in a way an important to your conversation with Jeremy just now.
And it's my understanding, this really is the end of the war. All hostages are being released. Israeli forces are still in the Gaza Strip, and there's now a consensus that Hamas' days in Gaza are over. So, let me tell you what I hope to see on Saturday or Sunday.
First of all, the incredible images of the hostages coming home but also unlike what happened in January, in that first phase of that deal, when Hamas came out of the tunnels in full military kit and said, we're here to stay. Those images, I suspect we will not see because there's now an agreement on a transition in Gaza that's going to take time. It's going to be hard with an interim security force, a number of international participants.
But bottom line, right now, hostages are coming out. This is the end of the Gaza war. It's a momentous day. It's great news and credit to everybody who had a role in this.
COOPER: Beth, what is your take on this? I mean, do you believe this is the end of the war?
[20:10:35]
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you know, Anderson, people joke about intelligence officers that we're the skunk at the garden party. So, because we're always the people that say -- but wait, there's something a little bit more here, but I think, absolutely a momentous day here. And not just for the Israeli hostages, but absolutely, you know, my heart is with them, but also Gazans tonight are probably celebrating in the Strip as well, because they need an end to this war, too.
Imagery just released today, over 80 percent of Gaza City, you know, severely damaged. So, everybody needs an end to this war and really all credit to President Trump here for bringing us to this. But as Marco Rubio talked about this weekend, on all the news shows, this is phase one and the rest of this to come much, much harder. And Hamas does want to live another day. And who's going to disarm them, you know, how is that going to work?
So, we have a big period where we're going to have to figure out what is next, and it will take the President's ongoing involvement to get us there.
COOPER: Yes and Brett, Hamas, you know, they did have a bunch of fighters who still had weapons. You know, the last hostage releases, those spectacles that they put on. So, there are still people who support Hamas and have a role in Hamas and theoretically have weapons somewhere buried in tunnels all over the place. In the past, they have battled the Palestinian Authority. Do you have confidence that, I mean, that they would give up governance of the Strip of this region?
MCGURK: I think if Beth and I were in the Situation Room having this conversation, I would agree with everything she just said. This is going to be extremely difficult. Hamas will try to cling to power.
But what is so different, what has transpired really over the last year, Anderson, and in June, when you and I were discussing that conflict in Iran, Hamas has almost nowhere to turn. And you now have this consensus in the region. I'm here in the Middle East, I've heard it in every capital. This war needs to come to an end. We have to turn a page and we need a new beginning in Gaza and for Gazans and that means reconstruction. It's going to take years and years and years.
It means a political process, including between Israelis and Palestinians, that is in this plan. And I am not going to be optimistic about where that's going to go. But the path now is open and since this war started two years ago, two days ago, there has really been no such path. It's been horrific. Israel faces multi-front war.
The Gazan civilians are trapped in this awful, horrific tragedy. And now, finally, this is the path to end the war and there is a broad consensus here in the Middle East from countries that often do not disagree about this path, and the Americans are behind it -- Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, others behind it. It's going to be a long, hard road, but we're finally there.
I talked in the summer, Anderson, you got a bridge from war to peace. After that 12-day war with Iran, we're now finally on that bridge. It's going to be hard work to cross it, but we have the we have the roadmap.
The United States of America and the President have to stay engaged here over the coming year and years. But finally, this is together and for Hamas to release all the hostages -- all the hostages, with Israel remaining in the Strip, that is significant. They've never agreed to do that.
So, look, let's go day by day, I want to see those hostages coming out. I think Gazans will have massive relief as the war stops, you'll see aid flowing in, but this is going to be a long, long road ahead. COOPER: And, Beth, there's the Israeli government component of this and the divisions within it. There was talk in the days after October 7th of, you know, when the war ends, at some point, the Prime Minister Netanyahu would have to -- there would have to be some sort of commission looking at the failures that led to that allowed October 7th to happen.
Do you think there will be some sort of reckoning, or what the divisions in the Israeli government mean about the chances of this peace lasting?
SANNER: Right, so I'm really -- I'm glad you brought this up. So, Netanyahu is saying he's going to have his Cabinet get together tomorrow night to approve this. I think that will be a rubber stamp. But, you know, Ben-Gvir was basically what I would say about my, you know, my kid, that he was acting out today in a very bad way on the Temple Mount. You know, we have --
COOPER: That's a hard right member of the Israeli government.
[20:15:17]
SANNER: Yes, sorry, far right coalition member that is really keeping Netanyahu's Cabinet afloat. And so, you know, right now in the West Bank, we have really, really horrible conditions for Palestinians there because of far-right settlers that are being encouraged by parts of Netanyahu's government. So, we have big problems, just in terms of what's happening with that government.
But what President Trump did is he recognized where the Israeli public is and that Israeli public, 85 percent of them want this war to end. He's on that side, without Trump, Netanyahu would not have agreed to this.
So, we have some, you know, pretty tense days ahead for Netanyahu. Maybe his government could fall but the rest of the government outside of the coalition will back him. And but we will have elections in the next year, and we will see if Netanyahu will benefit from this or whether he will finally run out of his nine lives as a politician.
COOPER: It is extraordinary just an extraordinary day today. Beth Sanner, Brett McGurk, thank you. We just got in a new statement from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
It reads, "With the approval of the first phase of the plan, all our hostages will be brought home. This is a diplomatic success and a national and moral victory for the state of Israel. From the beginning, I made it clear we will not rest until all our hostages return and all our goals are achieved through steadfast resolve, powerful military action, and the great efforts of our great friend and ally, President Trump, we've reached this critical turning point. I thank President Trump for his leadership, his partnership, and his unwavering commitment to the safety of Israel and the freedom of our hostages. God bless Israel. God bless America. God bless our great alliance." We're joined now by Ambassador Roger Carstens, who served as special Presidential envoy for hostage affairs during the Biden and first Trump administration. He just returned from Israel as unique insights on developments that led to tonight's peace deal. Ambassador, thank you for being with us.
What are the big questions you have about this deal tonight? And what are your thoughts about it?
ROGER CARSTENS, SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY FOR HOSTAGE AFFAIRS: Yes, I'll get into my thoughts about it. What I find interesting -- a few things: Number one, the mood in Israel definitely changed. I think I noticed a marked difference, previously it was mentioned that 85 percent of the Israeli population was absolutely for this war to end and to get the hostages back, you could just feel that this time around. It was very palpable, you could just really taste it.
I think additionally, I think what we saw during U.N. General Assembly towards the last week of September, there was a lot of work by the Trump administration to provide pressure and leverage off every stakeholder that had any play in the Middle East, whether it was, you know, Qatar, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt or of course, France, Germany, any country that had play in there was starting to get some pressure.
I would almost say that right now, what we're witnessing is peace through pressure. Maybe not smart power, but smart pressure, where all these elements in very different manners were able to weigh upon not only the mediators, but also Israel and Hamas in a way that's generated this moment.
COOPER: A senior White House official told CNN they expect the hostages will begin being released on Monday, though the timeline could be sped up. What do you expect and what do you expect about Hamas? What do you think Hamas is going to do here?
CARSTENS: You know, I think they're very intent upon making sure that there are guarantors to everything that's being discussed. I think that's one thing that's I think been markedly different. They probably feel that they are going to have people that ensure that no matter what's agreed to, we're going to whether it's not just the mediators, but also the Trump administration. So, anything agreed is going to be followed through.
So, I think Hamas is also going to be looking to get some of their prisoners back. Right now, it's unclear to me whether its 1,000 or about 2,000 prisoners that will be released from Israel, but Hamas will also be expecting to get some of their people back.
In terms of the Israeli prisoners, I know that Israel spent the last 96 hours really preparing for this moment. There are things that you have to do to receive prisoners to get them into kind of this post isolation support activities, to help them decompress and take care of them. I know Israel has been doing that for the last few days, so even though there's always something that could go wrong at the last second, people are going to have to manage this all the way up until the last final moments.
I would fully expect to see this take place before Monday. Israel is going to be prepared. I think Hamas is equally ready and I'm hoping this will be a great moment where we see a lot of hostages return home and certainly those -- the remains of those who've passed away since.
COOPER: Long term, do you think Hamas is willing to disappear, I mean leave, you know, get on boats and go or, you know, go get some permission to go across land and get on flights and go somewhere else? I mean, the places they can go are rather limited.
CARSTENS: Yes, I'd say my sources would say no. I think they fully expect to adhere to the agreement as much as they possibly can be expected to do so. But the thought of them just disappearing, I don't see that happening.
No one has a crystal ball in the Middle East, but I know Hamas fought long and hard to at least get into a position to an extent where they could have this agreement on some of the terms, because I think the Trump administration tried to set it up to where everyone gets some sort of a win out of this agreement, but do I expect to see Hamas disappear? And, you know, take boats away or float off or end up in another country still engaging in a war but from another direction? I don't think so. I imagine they're still going to try to maintain some sort of position holding, whether its political or not, in Gaza.
[20:20:56]
COOPER: I want to thank you very much for being on tonight. thank you. More on this historic moment in diplomacy and some of the lingering questions, including what does a postwar Gaza look like?
And later, an arson suspect arrested in connection with the deadly Palisades Fire earlier this year? We'll be right back.
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COOPER: We've been watching this fire. There have been two separate fires behind me, and you can see this one now has erupted again.
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[20:25:30]
COOPER: Back with our breaking news tonight. A short time ago, President Trump announced that Israel and Hamas have signed off on the first phase of a peace plan that will release all the hostages held by Hamas and lead to Israel withdrawing its troops to an agreed upon line in Gaza. Part of the first steps toward what he calls a strong, durable and everlasting peace.
A source in Israel now says the hostages are expected to be released on Saturday or Sunday. Others have said perhaps Monday, although that could be sped up. I want to talk about these extraordinary developments with Fareed Zakaria, host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS."
Fareed, there's obviously still a lot we don't know about the contours of this deal, but how important a day is this?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Oh, I think it's a very important day and you're right that we don't know enough about the contours of the deal. The most important part, as Brett McGurk pointed out, is that Hamas seems to have agreed to release all the hostages in the first phase. They had never been willing to do that before, and that is a game changer, because Hamas loses all its leverage once the hostages are released. That is the only leverage they have.
Israel is vastly superior to them in every military capacity. The one thing they had was the hostages, and the fact that they're willing to give up the hostages means they recognize this is the end for them.
COOPER: What do you make of President Trump highlighting former British Prime Minister Tony Blair as someone who could have a key role in postwar Gaza?
ZAKARIA: Well, look, I think Blair has worked very hard to earn the trust of almost all the players in the region. He's a very smart guy. I mean, won three elections and was, you know, was a very successful Prime Minister in Britain. So, I suspect that, that might well happen and it would be a very good idea if it did.
Look, Gaza is going to need all the help it can get. It's going to need tens of billions of dollars from the Gulf States. It's going to need help from the European Union. It's going to need help from the United States.
How many fingers are there in the world who are trusted and respected by all the people, all the groups I mentioned. Blair is in some ways unique in that respect. He's been working it for ten years, so I think it's a very good idea to enlist him.
COOPER: What about the future of Hamas? I mean, this is an organization which has, you know, spent a lot of money building tunnels for years, not bomb shelters for people there, for its citizens. They took power from the Palestinian authority. Do you believe they go away?
ZAKARIA: Look, I think Hamas is basically destroyed. You know, think about this has been two years of just massive, massive destruction of their military capacity, of their leadership. The last effort the Israelis made to bomb Hamas, "leadership" in Doha, it seems like they basically, you know, they basically killed a bunch of admin people because there's nobody left.
So when people talk about Hamas. So, look, there's always going to be some part of the Palestinian population that believes in armed resistance to Israel's occupation. There will be people, there will be small militias or small bands, they might call themselves Hamas, but Hamas, in the sense of the entity that ruled the Gaza Strip, that has been a, you know, a full formed militia with all the tunnels, with all the training. I think that's gone.
You know, they there will be remnants of it scattered around. But I don't think there's much of that left anymore.
COOPER: What do you see as the ruling structure for Gaza? I don't know if it would extend to the Palestinian, you know, Palestinian Authority territory.
ZAKARIA: That's the million dollar question, Anderson. And that might be a stumbling block, because, look, the Israelis have been willing to agree to this idea of a Palestinian technocracy, technocrats, as long as they're not affiliated with Hamas and they're not affiliated with the Palestinian Authority, because that, you know, that gets to a problem in the Israeli coalition, which is Netanyahu cannot allow the Palestinian Authority to have more sway and more authority because that suggests an entity that might then become a Palestinian State. And that would, of course, mean the extreme right wing members of his government would have huge problems with that.
So, it has to be non-Hamas, non-Palestinian authority, Palestinian Technocrats. Now, good luck finding those people who are completely unaffiliated have had no prior association with Hamas or the Palestinian authority. I'm sure some exist and they'll be working hard. And my guess is they won't apply the litmus test too strongly.
I mean, somebody once had some role in the in the P.A., for example, I would hope that would not disqualify him or her, but that is going to be the challenge because the Arab States are willing to support a Palestinian technocracy. They're not willing to go and govern Gaza themselves. They don't want to be in the business of shooting Palestinians who are rebelling or jailing Palestinians. So, it is essential that there be Palestinians governing, and who those people are is going to be a bit of a stumbling block.
COOPER: Fareed Zakaria, thanks very much.
[20:30:54]
Up next, the president hosted a round table on Antifa at the White House. His administration now calls them domestic terrorists and is using them to allege crimes by the president's perceived political enemies.
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KRISTI NOEM, (R) HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I was in Portland yesterday and had the chance to visit with the governor of Oregon and also the mayor there in town, and they are absolutely covering up the terrorism that is hitting their streets.
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[20:35:16] COOPER: The president gathered the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Attorney General, the FBI Director and top White House advisers today for what was dubbed a White House Antifa Roundtable. As you'll hear in a moment, DHS Secretary Noem claimed that Antifa is as dangerous as Hamas, the group that perpetrated the worst attack in Israel's history, killing more than 1,200 people and kidnapping, hundreds of hostages. It was not the only fact challenged assertion in the 90-minute session held in the Blue Room.
This comes after President Trump signed an executive order on Antifa in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination titled "Designating Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization." It reads in part, Antifa is a militaristic, anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for the overthrow of the United States government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law. It uses illegal means to organize and execute a campaign of violence and terrorism nationwide to accomplish those goals or these goals.
Now, that executive order was signed on September 22nd. In the more than two weeks since, the president has increasingly focused on sending the National Guard into cities like Portland and Chicago. And his top officials have been raising the rhetoric to justify the administration's actions.
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NOEM: This network of Antifa is just as sophisticated as MS-13, as TDA, as ISIS, as Hezbollah, as Hamas, as all of them. They are just as dangerous. They have an agenda to destroy us just like the other terrorists we've dealt with for many, many years. These individuals do not just want to threaten our law enforcement officers, threaten our journalists, and the citizens of this country. They want to kill them.
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COOPER: Now, Antifa has for years been considered more of a decentralized movement than a unified organization. The name has been applied to factions of leftists or anarchists who show up at protest opposing the police or the government. And their designation as a domestic terrorist organization, one being mentioned on par with ISIS or Hamas has some concern that the White House could justify sending in troops to American cities to somehow combat them.
In Chicago, where the president has already deployed National Guard troops just outside the city, and today, he posted on social media, Chicago mayor should be in jail for failing to protect ICE officers, Governor Pritzker also. He was asked about that during the Antifa Roundtable.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier today, you said the mayor of Chicago and the governor of Illinois should be jailed. Have you asked the Justice Department to look at possible charges and --
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No. I've seen -- I've seen the law and when you have a group of people where the police call off the safety for ICE officials, I've understood that and I've read it today in numerous journals that that's illegal.
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COOPER: That wasn't even the only crime alleged during today's Roundtable. For that, once again, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.
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NOEM: I was in Portland yesterday and had the chance to visit with the governor of Oregon and also the mayor there in town. And they are absolutely covering up the terrorism that is hitting their streets. These leaders in these local cities, along with Pritzker and Johnson, ignore what's going on or sir, they're helping Antifa cover it up.
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COOPER: Terrorism hitting their streets. Omar Jimenez, is at an ICE processing center just outside of Chicago. Omar, what do you know about tonight's demonstrations in Chicago as well as the National Guard deployment?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So one of the things we're looking for here at this facility is whether this could be a location where National Guard troops are deployed. We've already seen them at the Army Reserve Center outside, further outside Chicago. But then when you look at downtown Chicago, we're seeing a major group protest through the city or major number of people. And while this type of protest isn't quite unusual, railing against President Trump's agenda, President Trump's influence, against increased immigration enforcement, the numbers tend to fluctuate.
But when they do get big, this is a moment, if you want to just examine today, where the president has called for the jailing of the city's mayor and the state's governor that, of course, have pushed back just as forcefully or not just as, but very forcefully, towards the president of the United States. And it comes as many of Chicago's immigrant communities have faced increased immigration enforcement, some violent in nature.
I was actually talking to one restaurant owner today in Little Village, which is a predominantly Latino neighborhood in Chicago, and he told me about how his business is essentially hollowed out just based on the climate of fear he's faced. Take a quick listen.
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JIMENEZ: You typically see 65 to 70 on a Saturday, and you saw 17?
JOSE LOUIE LOPEZ, LOS CANDILES RESTAURANT, OWNER: 17 orders, and we usually -- we usually -- we stay open till four. We never close early.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. LOPEZ: But we had no other option --
JIMENEZ: Wow.
LOPEZ: -- this Saturday to close at two o'clock.
[20:40:00]
It was Ghost Town. I'm telling you, it's like a -- it's like a pandemic coming all over again.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
LOPEZ: You know?
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
LOPEZ: That's -- this is -- this is what it feels like.
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JIMENEZ: And that is the dynamic that a lot of restaurant owners and business owners in some of these immigrant communities are dealing with. But it's just one of many dynamics here in the city that, of course, extends all the way up to the politics between the president of the United States and this state's governor, and of course the city's mayor as well, Anderson.
COOPER: Omar, thanks very much. Joining me now with more on all this, Republican Strategist, Brad Todd; Senior Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller; and Journalist and Founder of Lift Our Voices, Gretchen Carlson.
John, first of all, just from a law enforcement standpoint, is Antifa like Al-Qaeda and ISIS and just as organized as Hezbollah, which had government backing, missiles. I mean, is this accurate?
JOHN MILLER, CNN SENIOR CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think they've carved out way too big a tent for Antifa in this executive order and what the secretary said, because Antifa isn't a tent, it's more like a flying carpet. It is a network of small disparate groups that subscribe to Antifa ideology. They exist on the internet and chat rooms and in 4chan and Discord, in places like that where they run discussion boards, trade tactics, documents, things like that.
But none of them are called Antifa. And to your point, there is no leader of Antifa. There is no base for Antifa. There is no structure for Antifa. It's a shared ideology of anti-fascism that subscribes to direct action. And that may mean taking on police, committing property damage, and violence. But it was designed to be like Quicksilver.
COOPER: They -- I mean, just from a -- they seem to be equating the people who are hanging out outside an ICE facility and being belligerent -- I don't know what they're doing, but they're there. The cameras show them. There's other people who are documenting them outside the ICE facility from different political spectrums. There seem to be tussles and things thrown, pepper balls are being fired. They seem to be equating that with Antifa running through the streets causing terrorism.
MILLER: Well, and I mean, their problem is a legal one. If you want to get the people who are taking on police, throwing things and so on, you can lock up individual actors for individual acts. But what this says is, it's going to designate Antifa as a domestic terrorism organization. The mythology here is both Republicans and Democrats voted against -- didn't vote against, failed to pass a law that would create domestic terrorist organizations.
So we have ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah designated foreign terrorist organizations, but we've decided as a country, unlike Canada or Great Britain, that if you're a domestic organization, we're not going to call you terrorists.
COOPER: So Gretchen, I mean, the president does seem to be conflating immigration, of course, from anti-government protests, inner city violence, domestic terrorism. What is the end game?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST AND CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: Well, first of all, I would just remind people that in Trump's Big Beautiful Bill, he cut out $820 million across the country for police prevention. I would also remind people that there was January 6th where MAGA came forward and had immense violence. So, I thought it was very interesting today that now, he's only calling out Antifa.
I think this is what the middle part of the country gets incredibly frustrated with, is that on the one hand you may have MAGA insurrectionists and on the other hand you may have leftists, but what about all the rest of the people in the middle who don't agree with either one? I would just say to echo what John said as well, that I think what this presents is the president an opportunity to be able to come after anyone that he wants to, as we have seen with his other political foes, meaning James Comey today. Because now, he'll be able to say you're part of Antifa when it isn't really an organization.
COOPER: Brad, to you, does comparing Antifa to Hezbollah and Hamas make sense?
BRAD TODD, GOP MEDIA CONSULTANT & STRATEGIST: Well, I want to go back to one thing John said. We actually do define domestic terrorism in the U.S. Code. It's in Title 18. We don't -- we don't have a designation for terrorist groups formally in the U.S. Code and it's not a chargeable offense, but we do define it. An anti-government, anti-authority groups is one of the things that we have defined as domestic terrorism. And that's something that predates Donald Trump by far.
One of the criteria we use to classify those groups is, are they trying to influence public policy by intimidation? That is exactly what is happening around these ICE facilities. If you look in Portland, Oregon, Antifa protesters have been surrounding that facility for the better part of a year. There was an actual riot that the Portland Police designated as in June. They've been making noise all night. They've been trying to disrupt the activities of ICE there for -- and the two or three block radius around it.
Police in Portland, if you look at their Freedom of Information Act, logs that have been pulled, they say that they would go in except for city council posturing there in Portland.
[20:45:00]
So there is organized activity. And by the way, you can look them up. You can look up Rose City Antifa online, they're an organized group.
COOPER: But is this -- to you, is this the equivalent of Hamas and Islamic Jihad or Al-Qaeda? What we're showing right now, is it's a bunch of people causing --
TODD: Well --
COOPER: -- problems outside an ICE facility.
TODD: Well, look, there's a spectrum of these things. There's a spectrum of these things, right? Of course, Hamas and Hezbollah are absolute evil incarnate. And that's a -- that's -- those groups exist. They're international terrorist organizations. That is (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: So, we do recognize --
COOPER: But, Kristi Noem is saying that these are as organized as Al- Qaeda and ISIS, which seems just from an accuracy standpoint, not to be (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Well, I will note going back 25 years, people who want to go after terrorists claim they're organized. And people who don't want to go after terrorists claim they're just a few rogue actors. That is as old as politics. But I don't think anyone should want people disrupting ICE --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You're still not answering the question whether you think -- do you believe the people standing outside and tussling with podcasters and throwing things at ICE, which they can all be arrested if they're breaking the law, that they are centrally organized like Al-Qaeda, like ISIS, like Hezbollah?
TODD: Oh no, I don't think they at a level of central organization is the same. But there is an international organization and in fact, they use money to help bail Antifa protestors out of jail here in the United States. So, no, it's not backed by the Iranian government or anything like that. But does anybody really -- do we really want people interfering with the enforcement of American laws? That's a question I think Middle America has no trouble answering and that is, no, they want the enforcement of American laws, including immigration law. COOPER: Brad Todd, thank you. John Miller and Gretchen Carlson as well. We take you back to Portland for another look at what's happening on the ground there, in new report tonight from Shimon Prokupecz, that's ahead.
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[20:50:53]
COOPER: A setback today for President Trump as he attempts to send the National Guard to Portland, a U.S. appeals court ruled that the Oregon National Guard can be federalized but not deployed during the appeals process. The president claims the troops are needed to protect the "war-ravaged city." Today, adding this.
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TRUMP: One thing I have to say is that Washington, D.C. was almost as bad. I don't know what could be worse than Portland. You don't even have stores anymore. They don't even put glass up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is in Portland to see firsthand what the situation is like.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing in front of the police barriers here that have been set up here in the last 24 hours just outside the ICE facility. And as we push in, you can see where all these clashes have been happening in front of that ICE building. Right next door, you can see by that blue tarp where the protesters had set up a camp, that's now gone and officials have come in and cleaned it up.
But I want you to look at the building right behind the tarp. That used to be a school until a few months ago. It actually had to move because of the protests and the gases, the tear gas and other chemicals were seeping into the playground. They just decided it was too dangerous and they actually relocated the school.
Now, follow me over this way. This is an apartment building. People live here. These are balconies here and windows that are facing the protest zone. And I've talked to some of the residents and they're angry. They're angry at the politics of the protesters. Others are just worn down. They say they can't sleep at night because of the noise. Many of them can't open their windows because of the tear gas. And they say that in some cases, they're even sleeping with gas masks at night.
But these people, they live here and they are dealing with this every day and it's certainly taking a toll. In front of the apartment building, the streetcar stops. So we're going to hop on and show you the rest of the neighborhood.
So the neighborhood here is called South Waterfront. It's mostly residential high rises, with some shops and restaurants. I jumped off the streetcar and we're now just not even a half a mile from the ICE facility. And you can see here, people are going about their daily lives. Right next to me, you can see is this huge park and people are walking their dogs, kids are playing outside. And you know, the national narrative on Portland, that seems like a distant memory, even this close to the epicenter of the protest zone.
As we walk through this park, I want you to look up there, that's the Portland aerial tramway connecting the South Waterfront to another part of the city. I'm going to take you up there and give you a better look at the city. When you look down there, that's the South Waterfront. And keep in mind that the protest zone, which is just a single block and about a mile from us now, there's nothing visible from the air that would suggest anything is under siege. And then when you look from the other side, you can see downtown Portland and life there continues as normal. The national narrative that the city is burning down just isn't true.
COOPER: And so Anderson, out here now, this is back open. This was closed for the last 24 hours. It's back open. We're not seeing the same number of protesters out here. Certainly, with the police and the city moving that encampment, that has changed things here too. We'll see how the rest of the night goes, but there's just a different feeling out here tonight and it certainly seems that some of the actions that the local law enforcement here and the city has taken has maybe changed some of what we're going to see. But we'll see, we'll see. It's still early and we'll see what the night brings.
COOPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much.
Coming up next, an arrest in the Palisades Fire investigation. It was one of the worst wildfires in L.A. history, destroyed thousands of homes and businesses, killed 12 people. We were on the scene back in January.
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COOPER: So, there's a lot of different areas that crews are trying to work on. They're trying to kind of build a defensive perimeter around the entire part of this northern edge of this fire. But, it is a very dynamic situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:59:11]
COOPER: Officials have arrested an arson suspect in connection with the Palisades Fire that killed 12 people, burned down thousands of homes and businesses. Jonathan Rinderknecht could face a maximum of 20 years in prison if convicted. He's accused of starting the Lockman Fire just minutes into the New Year. Officials say days later, the Palisades Fire started from the remnants of that first one. Here's a reminder of some of what we saw in that fire and the heroic efforts by fire crews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As of this afternoon, the Palisades Fire, which we are right now on the northern edge of, is the one that concerns fire crews most. It seems like the wind shifted and suddenly the fire just erupted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. You know, afternoons, they get the wind shifts up here. So, that's exactly what has happened.
COOPER: This, to me, this is just a microcosm of the difficulty the firefighters are facing in these conditions. The difference between 15 minutes ago here and right now, the only thing that changed was the direction of the wind. The wind shifted and all of a sudden this entire sort of valley --
