Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Massive Blast At Tennessee Military Explosive Plant; Trump Administration Lays Off 4,000 plus Federal Workers Amid Shutdown; Attorney General Pam Bondi Caught Off Guard by Indictment of New York AG Letitia James; Trump Admin Blames "Antifa" For Ongoing Protests In Portland; Maria Corina Machado Wins Nobel Peace Prize After Pres. Trump Campaigned For It For Years; Former Hostage Describes 491 Days Of Captivity In Gaza. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 10, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Dolly Parton, number one, I know, I'd vote for her.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: I mean, it's really amazing because most musicians, people, they like them fine. Nothing to do with them as President. There's something unique about her.
All right, thank you, Harry Enten.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And before we go, we do have some wonderful news to share on a Friday, our OutFront family growing. Congratulations to our booking producer, Emily Bushey and her husband, Harry on the early arrival of Baby Russell.
I mean look at that one. Oh, those handsome feet. Mom and Dad, Russell are doing great and we are so, so happy for all of you and for our dear Emily. Thanks for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:41]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the latest on a massive blast at a military explosives plant in Tennessee that left 19 dead or missing and law enforcement treating it as a crime scene.
And later, the Trump administration following through on its threat to layoff federal employees during the shutdown. Tonight, the President says he's targeting people who are Democrat oriented. And the White House compares Antifa to Hezbollah, even ISIS, but what is Antifa, exactly? And who are the people protesting in Portland on any given night?
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with breaking news on an explosion at a military munitions plant that has left 19 dead or missing in a building completely destroyed. Described as a Mass Detonation Event by authorities, the plant is located about an hour southwest of Nashville, Tennessee. The explosion rattled homes miles away. And I want to play for you how the sound of it was recorded on a few nearby residence security cameras.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO CAPTURED BY NEARBY RESIDENCE SECURITY CAMERAS.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just to give you some context on the extent of the damage, I want to show you some before and after images. This is a Google Earth image of what the plant looked like before the explosion. This is what it looks like today.
When asked to describe the building, one local official says there's nothing to describe, it's gone. The FBI and ATF are currently on the scene investigating, along with other law enforcement agencies. Authorities can't say what caused the blast, but did say they're currently treating it as a crime scene.
The local sheriff was asked today what his experience has been like so far at the location.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS DAVIS, SHERIFF, HUMPHREYS COUNTY, TENNESSEE: Hell, you want me to be honest, anytime we do something like this, that's just like I said in the flood, you know, it's hell. But from the time we tried to start seeing what we're seeing, putting things together, talking to families, talking to victims, talking to interviews and arranging it, it's hell. Its hell on us, it's hell on everybody involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Isabel Rosales is on the ground for us in Tennessee with more on how the day unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): About 11 miles from the military explosives plant, a neighbor's doorbell camera captured the early morning blast, leaving multiple people dead or still unaccounted for.
DAVIS: We do have 19 souls that we are looking for.
ROSALES (voice over): Nineteen people, dead or missing since the massive explosion.
DAVIS: Can I describe the building? There's nothing to describe. It's gone. It's probably been one of the most devastating situations that I've been on in my career.
ROSALES (voice over): The company, Accurate Energetic Systems, about an hour Southwest of Nashville, specializes in making military grade explosives like TNT and C-4 for the U.S. Department of Defense, according to its website, and explosives for uses like controlling avalanches and clearing roads. The cause of the early morning explosion is still unknown.
These stark before-and-after images show the large scale devastation left behind. Debris found half a square mile away, according to the sheriff.
DAVIS: Do I see a short-term explanation? No. Do I see us being here for many days? Yes, I do see that.
ROSALES (voice over): The small community left shaken and trying to come to terms with their loss.
KENNY ROBERTS, TENNESSEE STATE SENATE: It's hard to go any place in this rural community and not run into someone who has some kind of connection with this business.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Isabel Rosales joins me now. So, what are authorities saying about any survivors?
ROSALES: Right, Anderson, they're saying that three people were treated for minor injuries because of the explosion. Two of them have been released. One is still receiving medical treatment. It's not clear how far or close these people were to the origin of this explosion.
Now, this is an expansive site located on 1,300 acres, essentially, Anderson, a campus made up of multiple buildings. Public records show that Accurate Energetic Systems has been awarded multiple military contracts, most recently just last month with the Department of Defense awarding them nearly $120 million for the procurement of TNT.
Now, CNN also spoke with a similar explosives facility based out of Texas. That president told CNN that this is a well-known company within the industry and that depending on the capacity, the quantity of explosives that facilities have, they have enough force to Anderson, "destroy a small town" And we certainly saw that in those images.
[20:05:38]
COOPER: Yes, 19 dead or missing right now. Isabel Rosales, thanks.
I'm joined by former ATF Agent Joseph Vince. He served as the head of the ATF National Response Team for the southeast region, currently a lecturer at Mount Saint Mary University. Mr. Vince, thanks for being with us. Given the magnitude of this explosion, what phase of the investigation do you expect authorities are in right now?
JOSEPH VINCE, PROFESSOR, MOUNT SAINT MARY'S UNIVERSITY: Well, Anderson, this was obviously catastrophic and there was probably significant other detonations that occurred after the initial one. And right now the main focus is going to be on two things. One is safety for the investigators, and the other thing is gathering the remains. You want to be respectful to the family and my condolences go out to everybody in the community. This is truly a tragedy.
After that, their blast scene investigation will begin once they know it's safe. And when I say safe, they have to make sure there's no toxins in there for the investigators and other things that could harm them because they can use means using breathing apparatus and other means to protect themselves, but they have to do that first to get into the scene.
The next thing they're going to coordinate with their investigators that are doing the interviews, interviews with the company, interviewing with any witnesses that occurred there, and coordinate this with the blast scene investigation itself.
Now, that's important because you've got to get to the scene of the blast to find out how this originated. I should bring up it's a little unrelated, but very much related, the Palisades Fires investigation that just resulted in an arrest in California started, it's a massive, massive fire. And yet they were -- ATF agents were able to find that seat of the fire where it originated, the origin of the fire, and then from there, track the individual that caused this tragedy from occurring.
COOPER: I guess part of -- I mean, one of the things, you know, in a wildfire fire investigators are able to do or look at any videos that may exist, traffic cameras, anything. In a facility like this, I'm sure there are lots of cameras, but they've obviously would have been destroyed. I'm not sure where those images would be stored. But is it possible that there are video images from inside that still exist on a server somewhere far away?
VINCE: That's possible as with the electronics that we have now, that is possible, but there's no way to tell because we don't know what their security was like. And that's the other thing they'll be looking at, is their protocols, their safety procedures.
As I've heard on today's reporting, there was one safety incident that occurred, a minor incident in 2014. Other than that, they have a clean record, but with explosions, there's no do-overs. You only have one chance and you have to be right all the time or something like this could happen.
The other thing is that the team leaders in this investigation have to be critical thinkers, because what you don't know, you don't know. So you can't put all your eggs in one basket. You have to look at what the evidence draws you to find what the conclusion is of this investigation.
COOPER: Yes, Joseph Vince, I appreciate your expertise. Thank you.
Moving on to the shutdown, the latest people affected by it earlier today, Russ Vought, the Director of the OMB, the office of management and budget, posted this on social media, "The RIFs have begun." RIF stands for Reduction In Force. In other words, the layoffs threatened by the Trump administration both leading up to and during the last ten days of the shutdown have started.
We found out late today that more than 4,000 federal workers have been laid off today.
Kaitlan Collins, chief White House correspondent and anchor "The Source" joins me now with the latest. So, what more do the President have to say today about laying off people?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Anderson, he's making clear why he's doing that -- why he's doing this, which is to inflict pain on Democrats. And he's describing these federal workers as Democrat- oriented and saying that the whole point of this is to punish the Democrats, who have so far stuck together for the most part, and refused to vote for that C.R., which would reopen the government and instead say they want an agreement with Republicans when it comes to extending the Obamacare subsidies.
And one thing we had heard from The White House was that this was going to be a painful decision that they'd be forced to make if the government stayed shut down simply because of the fact that the government doesn't have any money at this moment.
But the President, when he was asked about this in the Oval Office just a couple of hours ago, framed it very differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It would be Democrat-oriented because we figure, you know, they started this thing. So, they should be Democrat-oriented. It will be a lot and we'll announce the numbers over the next couple of days. But it will be a lot of people, all because of the Democrats. These are people that the Democrats wanted, that in many cases were not appropriate. We fought them at the time, and was ultimately signed in and some of these people, these are largely people that the Democrats want and many of them will be fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:10:43]
COLLINS: And, Anderson, just to note, you know, my team looked into this as this claim was going around when they were threatening this. No President in recent memory, since the kind of modern definition of a government shutdown has ever had mass layoffs during a government shutdown. No President has ever canceled federal programs as a result of that.
So, what you are seeing is the White House and the budget chief, Russ Vought, who, of course, is the co-author of Project 2025 and talked about reducing the size of the federal government using this moment, which they warned Democrats would happen if the government did shut down, that they'd do this.
COOPER: Well, it's also incredible that he's saying this out loud of what metric they're using, which is people, I guess he views or they view somehow as Democrats or, you know, in league with Democrats.
It's remarkable to hear the President of the United States say that. Kaitlan, thanks very much.
Join Kaitlan at the top of the hour for "The Source." Her guest is going to be New York Democratic mayoral candidate, Zohran Mamdani.
Joining me now, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd and CNN chief political analyst and former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod.
David, whether it's a Republican President saying he's targeting or Democrat oriented people or a Democrat saying they would target Republican oriented people, it's -- in normal times, wouldn't that be kind of outrageous?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, not even in abnormal times, it is outrageous, Anderson. And I can't honestly imagine any other president speaking this way, but its consistent with the President's, approach.
He does not see himself as the President of the United States. He sees himself as the President of his supporters. He sees himself as a President of -- as the leader of his party. But the cuts that he's making are going to affect Republicans and Democrats. The services that are going to be impacted are going to affect Republicans and Democrats.
And this is not going to bring closer a solution to the shutdown. What will bring closer a solution to the shutdown are rational people sitting down and talking through potential paths forward. And as he suggested the other day, healthcare is the fulcrum of this because you have the Obamacare, the ACA tax credits expiring at the end of this year, which will affect tens of millions of Americans, that's what Democrats have centered on, that's what they want to talk about.
So this only throws fuel on the fire and makes solving the problem much less likely.
COOPER: Brad, if 4,000 people were laid off today, how do you think The White House is going around determining that they're all Democrat oriented?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, let's put it in perspective, Anderson, 4,000 employees, we have three million government employees. And in fact, a the Gallup is out with a poll today that says a majority of Americans think that the federal government is doing too much. Even a third of Democrats think the federal government is doing too much.
So, I think defending that we need every one of those three million employees is a loser for Democrats politically.
I think where the President is getting his rhetoric about what they're all Democrats is because the two federal employee unions for that, the two unions that represent federal employees gave 100 percent of their money to Democrats in the last election. Now, that's very unusual. Almost no union or interest group gives a hundred percent of their money to one party. I think that's probably -- he was short handing --
COOPER: Which one of the two unions on that?
TODD: The AFSCME and the AFGE.
COOPER: So, David, I mean, then does that make sense to you that he's then targeting -- would be targeting two unions who had given funds to Democrats?
AXELROD: Here's what makes sense. What makes sense is to try and resolve this shutdown, which is having increasingly negative impacts on people around the country and that will compound over time. You're going to have people, in service and people, in critical government positions who are not going to be paid. And this is chaos. This is fomenting chaos.
And, you know, I appreciate Brad. You know, in the administration I was in Bill Clinton -- others have said we ought to rationalize the government. We ought to keep the jobs that are necessary. We ought to see how we can deliver services better. That's not what's happening here.
This is a political purge. I think it sounds like you're nostalgic for the good old days of DOGE. And we know that didn't work out very well because they had to end up hiring back people to do the jobs of the people who they fire because not enough thought was given to how this -- this is not the process by which you make the government more efficient. And the fact that the President basically discusses it as a Democratic purge tells you all you need to know.
[20:15:37]
TODD: David, you're right, it's not the way to get this solved, but the way to get it solved for Democrats and the U.S. Senate to agree to let the Senate move and vote on the bill to keep the government open.
We saw today CNN's own reporting said that a senior Democratic aide said they won't move until planes fall out of the sky. So, Democrats have decided that this is a political winner, that pain for America is a political winner. They don't have to vote for the bill. They just have to let the Senate vote for the bill. That's all they have to do. Then we can move on and discuss next year's budget, which they care about.
COOPER: All right, we're going to have to leave it there.
AXELROD: Oh, we've got to go?
COOPER: Yes, David Axelrod, thank you, Brad Todd --
AXELROD: Brad, we should just resolve it the way it's always been resolved, and they should sit down and discuss it, and not play games like this. But I'm sorry, Anderson. Go ahead, proceed.
COOPER: Yes, I'm sorry. Up next, the federal indictment of New York's Attorney General, Letitia James, caught some key officials in the Trump administration off guard.
And later, a former hostage held in Gaza for nearly 500 days, talks about his captivity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELI SHARABI, AUTHOR, "HOSTAGE": You think 50 meters underground and you have a lot of time to think with yourself, and then you understand what it's really important in life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:07]
COOPER: We are learning tonight that the federal indictment of New York Attorney General Letitia James came as a surprise to a lot of people, including U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi, who runs the Department of Justice.
Sources telling CNN that Lindsey Halligan, the new U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, presented the case herself to a grand jury yesterday without telling Bondi or other senior justice officials.
Halligan was personally installed a few weeks ago by President Trump, who has promised to go after his political enemies. Letitia James is charged now with bank fraud and making false statements to a financial institution. CNN has previously reported that sources said Bondi top aides viewed the case against her as weak.
Let's talk more about it with Michael Moore, the former U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Georgia.
How unusual would it be for a U.S. attorney to not alert the Attorney General that such a high profile indictment was about to be handed up?
MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, well, I'm glad to be with you. It's completely unusual. It's frankly contrary to department policy. There's a policy out there called the Justice Manual that tells every U.S. attorneys sort of how to run his or her office in each district, who you contact, what you do.
And one of the primary things that you do is you make urgent reports when there's some particular issue that may be of particular concern or interest to the higher ups at the Justice Department. And that is especially true when you're talking about whether or not you're going to indict or charge some type of public official.
And so, this is really -- it is abnormal, but it's probably in all candor, it's just more indicative of sort of the melee that's going on since Miss Halligan's move over to the Eastern District of Virginia.
COOPER: Right, well, she's not an experienced prosecutor in any way. MOORE: No, she's not and she's not experienced with the department. And you don't have to experience with department, but you do have to be willing to read the books on how to do your job.
And so clearly, someone just missed that and didn't let them know. It doesn't change frankly, the legal significance of the indictment, I mean, there still will be questions and motions to dismiss and those types of things. And so, whether or not she let the let the boss know what she was doing is more an indication that just sort of how green she is in the role.
COOPER: How likely do you think it is that the James case makes it to trial, or the Comey case for that matter?
MOORE: You know, I think it's going to be difficult to for the government to move forward in the cases and I think you're going to see pretty active motion practice by both defendants to have the cases dismissed. You've got certain things like vindictive and selective prosecution that will be an issue, and you're going to see the statement that Trump made directing the charges be brought. It's especially to me, more incriminating, given the fact that it was now apparently intended to be a private communication.
I mean, you know what you do when you want things to be kept a secret and do something that's not right, you tell it privately as opposed to posting it like he does on some other things that are a little bit outlandish that we've unfortunately become accustomed to. So, I think you're going to see that. I think you'll see a challenge to her, to Miss Halligan's role as U.S. attorney, whether or not they actually had the authority to appoint her to fulfill the role, that's going to be an issue.
COOPER: So CNN has learned, and we reported on this the other day, that from a source that President Trump's Truth Social post, which pressured Attorney General Pam Bondi to take action against James Comey and Schiff and Letitia James, was meant to be a private message, not a public one. He calls her Pam in this, and it was later taken down. Does that matter from a legal standpoint if the defense tries to use that post to prove vindictive or selective prosecution?
MOORE: It will matter to the judge, I think. I think it's the kind of thing that throws gas on the fire when you're making a motion to dismiss because of vindictive prosecution. If you think about this, if you have a social media post and you say, hey, let's go rob a bank, bring a gun in a fast car, you know, that's bad. But whether or not they're going to prosecute you on that, if you send a secret note to your friend who happens to have a gun and a fast car and a ski mask and say, hey, let's go rob a bank, that's a little more indicative that you were serious about what you were doing, and more what I would think would be sort of a direction to act.
And so, that's what you've got here, is apparently he wanted to privately tell his attorney general, we need to move forward on these prosecutions because they're making us look bad. The problem is they brought in an inexperienced prosecutor, and they really brought what I would think are some of the weakest charges that I've seen to try to make their case.
This mortgage fraud case is -- I don't know that it will withstand a good puff of wind.
[20:25:16]
COOPER: It is amazing how much has occurred just in the -- it's not even the first year of the of this administration. What do you think the rule of law looks like in the next, two years, three years plus?
MOORE: It's a great point. I've worried about that. You know, I've sort of always taken the position that the courts are going to be the thing that -- the body that would step in and give us some normalcy back, or would be the ones who say, you've pushed too far, were not going to let you do that. Unfortunately, what we've seen is the Supreme Court, who really is not willing to call balls and strikes, and they typically don't call a strike unless it's from Trump's team, and so, that's been troubling.
You're starting to see those some district court judges really move forward and write some opinions questioning this expansive abuse of power that we've seen over the last several months. And so I'm hopeful that as those cases kind of work their way through and ultimately make it off of sort of the Supreme Court rocket docket, and we actually get into some real litigation about the cases that will find judges and courts willing to stop it.
But I worry that that the attack on the rule of law is become sort of a soundbite and that were becoming desensitized and some of what is abnormal, were now just taking it as normal because we're so inundated with it on a daily basis by the administration.
COOPER: Yes, Michael Moore, thanks very much.
Coming up next, my interview with the former hostage in Gaza about the President's peace plan and his hopes of being reunited with friends he was with in captivity, who helped him survive.
And later, President Trump says Portland's war ravaged, but a judge has halted his effort to send in the National Guard. A live report from ground zero, the protest site ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:31]
COOPER: New clashes this morning outside Chicago between protesters and local police at the Broadview ICE facility. Our affiliate WBBM reports the protesters were outside the area -- the designated area for demonstrations and several people were handcuffed.
Now this comes after a court ruling, Thursday, pausing the deployment of National Guard troops in Illinois for now. Also today, a federal judge ordered federal officials to remove the eight foot high security fence on the street in front of that ICE facility by 11:59 p.m. local time Tuesday night. Town officials filed a lawsuit saying it was installed without local permission and permits.
The President also wants the National Guard in Portland calling it war-ravaged while that's been temporarily blocked by a federal judge. An appeals court that's taken up the case could rule on any day. Just yesterday, as you know, the President hosted a White House roundtable on Antifa. The question is, is that who's actually behind some of the protests outside the ICE facility in Portland? Our Shimon Prokupecz is there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another night in Portland, a few more arrests, but that's not why we're here tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You've got a presence in Portland that is Antifa affiliated.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): We've come to ask --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Antifa thugs.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): -- about Antifa.
PROKUPECZ: You're not Antifa, right?
DUSTIN RAGSDALE, PROTESTER: Honestly, I don't even know what that means anymore because it's become such a corny label.
PROKUPECZ: Are you guys part of any organized group?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I mean, you know, calling Antifa an organized group in and of itself is kind of like a misnomer, right? There is no organization of Antifa. I mean, I'm sure almost everyone out here is here just because they know someone else who's out here. Or they know someone else who's, you know, these policies are affecting and they're out here for them.
PROKUPECZ: And no one's paying you to be here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, obviously not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. We're here on our own. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There's no, like, there's no one giving me orders telling me to come out here. My mom called me when she heard I was going to come to this and she was worried about me. And I'm like, Mom, nothing's going on. You know, we're going to come out here. We're going to maybe, you know, dance to some music on a loudspeaker, take a picture with the frogs.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): He's talking about all those people in inflatable costumes.
PROKUPECZ: There are more costumes tonight, right --
RAGSDALE: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: -- than there's been.
RAGSDALE: Yes. I've been hoping for this for months, actually.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Dustin Ragsdale is the guy in the panda suit. He's also a Navy vet, lives in the community, and has been here for over 100 days. He says the panda suit is a reaction to this.
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: This network of Antifa is just as sophisticated as MS-13, as TDA, as ISIS, as Hezbollah, as Hamas, as all of them.
RAGSDALE: If Portland is being full-on Portland and it's comic con out here, it's kind of hard to spin that narrative of calling us, like, terrorists and stuff when we're just out here in funny costumes dancing.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Live streamers are everywhere, many with their own point of view.
SGT. DAN DIMATTEO, PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU: Hey, how are you tonight?
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): So I asked these cops, who have been here for months, what they've seen.
DIMATTEO: There may be people who say, who espouse those ideologies, that say, like -- like I said, there was a girl who was over here the other day yelling, I'm Antifa. We don't go around and poll the crowd to find out what they are, because if somebody said, this person's Antifa, I don't believe they dress a certain way, or I'm going to be able to pick them out of a crowd if -- if those are your ideologies, much the same way I wouldn't be able to pick different religions out of a crowd.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Protests over the summer were violent. The ICE building was closed for a few weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll move once they tell me to move.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Standing in front of the driveway is a nightly ritual. It's where federal officers and protesters clash as agents clear the sidewalk to make room for their cars.
[20:35:04]
PROKUPECZ: What is the worst part about this, can we ask you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just got to step back just a little bit from me, OK? It's going to be arms-length away, OK.
PROKUPECZ: How's that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just take -- just a little bit back, just a little bit back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just give him some room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
PROKUPECZ: What is the -- what is the point of this? What -- what is -- what is, I don't know, can you tell us?
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): When protesters get near the ICE property line, agents fire pepper balls from the roof.
RAGSDALE: It's ridiculous because the peaceful protesters out here, we're armed with cardboard and we have megaphones and silly costumes. We're not the ones bringing -- bringing the weapons loaded with poisons.
PROKUPECZ: What's the endgame here? What's -- what's the --
RAGSDALE: We want ICE to leave.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): What's clear after this night, protesters aren't going anywhere for now. What's not, finding someone to label Antifa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Shimon joins us now. What have you been hearing about what a National Guard presence could look like in Portland if the administration, you know, wins an appeal it has pending in the federal court?
PROKUPECZ: So it's not clear entirely. Look, Anderson, by listening to that hearing, the appeals court, you can tell that they're inclined to give the President -- the President the power to bring the National Guard here. How that's going to unfold is entirely unclear. But let me just kind of quickly show you, if they were to come here, this is what they would see.
I mean, it's people playing music. You have people in costumes everywhere here now. It has grown so large in terms of the number of people that are wearing costumes, all in solidarity. We have people down this street that are wearing costumes and now this large group here. Every day, like more and more people, Anderson, are coming here in costumes.
While the Border Patrol and the DHS and law enforcement, they continue to keep a watch over the building. Most of the time they're on the roof. And then they're also behind the gates. And this is the scenes that have been playing out here certainly since last night. And as this grows, it becomes more of a party atmosphere. Hopefully that continues. And we'll see if the National Guard actually gets sent here.
COOPER: Yes. Let's hope there's not violence. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you.
For more on what Antifa is and isn't, I'm joined by CNN senior law enforcement intelligence analyst, John Miller. So, John, the -- the White House is saying it's, you know, as organized as Hezbollah, ISIS, which, you know, have massive global reach. There is a thing. Antifa, is it more ideological as opposed to an organized organization?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I mean, the comparisons of Antifa to Hezbollah or MS-13 are just wrong. These are organizations that have organizational structures, that have chains of command, that have massive amounts of funding from foreign governments, in the case of Hezbollah.
But Antifa is an ideology. Calling it an organization would be like calling white supremacy an organization. It's an ideology, repugnant as it may be, and it brings together a collective of groups. Antifa does the same thing. And Antifa, through the ideology and the collective of loosely associated groups, they trade tactics.
They trade information. They trade how-to manuals in terms of how to organize, how to take on the police, how to do property damage, how to escape. So they are organized, but they're not an organization.
COOPER: You know, you saw the people in costumes outside that facility. We should also point out, look, there have been attacks on, you know, there was a sniper attack on -- on a facility. There -- there have been a couple of those, so things can obviously turn very, very quickly. What do you make of what you're seeing in -- in Portland?
MILLER: So what I make of what I'm seeing in Portland is, you know, you have protesters who are trying to stretch that line to the point that they'll be pushed back by police. What we're not seeing is great deals of violence. What we are seeing is disorder. That is purposeful. And that is not new.
It's very much like what we saw in Los Angeles. So federal agents will confront them, in some cases police, depending on where you are, and they'll make those arrests.
COOPER: So if Antifa is more of an ideology than an actual organization with the headquarters and a leader, for law enforcement, if they're going to investigate, what do they do? Do they follow a money trail? Would -- would -- yes, what would they do?
MILLER: So that's going to be the real challenge. The way the White House has structured this, by designating Antifa as a domestic terrorist org terrorist organization in an executive order, they have called it an organization and defined it as one, which is, if you've worked on cases involving Antifa activities across the country, hard to justify.
[20:40:08]
They've also said, you know, that agencies should use the applicable law, but there is no applicable law to a domestic designated terrorist organization because while they define domestic terrorism in the law, it comes with no charges, no additional penalties, no additional resources that can be used. It's kind of a nod rather than a strategy. So we dealt with this in New York. We dealt with this in L.A. when I was there.
You know, these groups, they know what they're doing. They get money from non-government organizations. But if you look at the Trump administration's strategy, it may be just to label groups that are protesting their initiatives as terrorists and to target those groups that fund them or fund groups that fund them as supporting terrorism.
COOPER: John Miller, thank you.
Still ahead, a former hostage in Gaza held for nearly 500 days shares with me his thoughts on the President's ceasefire plan. And now he hopes to be reunited with those he was in captivity with.
Also, President Trump hoped to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work there in the conflicts and other hot spots. Instead, he's gone to Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. We'll have all the reaction, including what the President said about it tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The person who actually got the Nobel Prize called today, called me and said, I'm accepting this in honor of you because you really deserved it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:13]
COOPER: President Trump did not win the Nobel Peace Prize today as he hoped. Instead, the Nobel Committee awarded it to Maria Corina Machado, a Venezuelan opposition leader who's been in hiding since the disputed election last year. The President spoke about the decision tonight, saying he's helped solve several wars, including securing the phase of -- or phase one of the Gaza ceasefire plan this week. And he had this to say about the winner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The person who actually got the Nobel Prize called today, called me and said, I'm accepting this in honor of you because you really deserved it. A very nice thing to do. I didn't -- I didn't say then give it to me, though. I think she might have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: For years, of course, the President has been lobbying for the award.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Everyone says that I should get the Nobel Peace Prize.
I think I'm going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things, if they gave it out fairly, which they don't. I am asking them to give you the Nobel Peace Prize. I said, thank you. Many other people feel that way, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You deserve the Nobel Prize, you think?
TRUMP: Everyone thinks so, but I would never say it.
Well, they should give me the Nobel Prize for Rwanda.
I stopped wars from happening. If it were somebody else, they would have gotten five Nobel Prizes.
They will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize. It's too bad. I deserve it, but they will never give it to me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, more now in today's announcement and the reaction from CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After campaigning, pleading, prodding for years --
TRUMP: Where's my Nobel Peace Prize? They don't talk about it.
FOREMAN (voice-over): President Donald Trump has lost again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2025.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, FORMER DEPUTY, NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF VENEZUELA: Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
FOREMAN (voice-over): The winner is Maria Corina Machado, an outspoken defender of democracy in Venezuela, where she's been forced into hiding by the authoritarian regime. Trump has previously praised her, but as her win was announced, a White House spokesperson griped, the Nobel Committee proved they place politics over peace. On Capitol Hill, the President's party is bristling, too.
REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): That's why he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, and that's why I'm introducing a resolution for a sense of Congress today that will honor him with the Nobel Peace Prize.
FOREMAN (voice-over): It's not clear how that would work, but they're not alone. Team Trump's peace efforts in the Middle East, past and present, prompted Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu to mock up a fake image of Trump with the medal and send a letter to the Nobel Committee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's nominating you for the Peace Prize, which is well-deserved. And you should get it.
TRUMP: Thank you very much. This I didn't know.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Leaders in Pakistan and Cambodia have also praised Trump's peace efforts, parts of Africa as well.
I believe that he does deserve a Nobel Peace Prize, the president of Gabon said, and even Ukraine says it will back the prize for Trump if he ever delivers the peace he has promised their nation. But Trump's unprecedented attacks on democratic norms at home, his calls for armed suppression of protesters, his legal pursuit of foes, pressure on education, business, the free press, and free speech, have all spurred sharp criticism of his claim to being the peace president.
JIMMY KIMMEL, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE" HOST: The peace president is sending a platoon to invade a yoga studio in Portland right now.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Perhaps that's why Trump himself admits he may never get a piece of that glory he so clearly craves.
TRUMP: They will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize. It's too bad. I deserve it, but they will never give it to me.
[20:50:05]
FOREMAN (voice-over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Just ahead, we're going to talk to a former Israeli hostage about his hopes for what's going to happen in the next few days.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:00]
COOPER: President Trump is expressing optimism tonight that the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas will hold and says that it's a good deal. He'll visit Israel in the next few days where he'll address the Knesset and then head to Egypt for meetings. The President also confirmed the hostages are going to be released on Monday and says this about the hostages who are deceased.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They're also getting the bodies, approximately 28 bodies. And some of those bodies are being unearthed right now as we speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: With the ceasefire in place, Israel began withdrawing tanks and other military vehicles to specified areas of Gaza in accordance with the agreement. While Gazans by the thousands are walking or crowding onto vehicles heading back to Gaza City and other northern parts of the Gaza Strip. Much of the area, of course, is completely destroyed.
It's going to take years to rebuild and they face lives that are forever changed by the -- the death of family members and children, the destruction of schools and infrastructure. A man named Eli Sharabi endured 491 days in captivity in Gaza. Only to learn after his release in February that his wife and two daughters were murdered on October 7th.
He's now in the first hand account of his ordeal called "Hostage" and he joins me now. Eli, you have been a tireless advocate for hostages still in captivity, meeting with President Trump, speaking at the United Nations. How do you feel tonight knowing they're supposed to be released within days?
ELI SHARABI, HELD HOSTAGE IN GAZA: Oh, I'm more than happy, you know, but we have the Sharabi's family. We have mixed feelings about all this end because of my brother, Yossi, that been in, you know, hostage as well on October 7th and killed in captivity later. That we are going to get him, you know, his body now.
So it's a bit of closure for us, very sad closure. But I'm waiting to see my friend from captivity, Alon Ohel. And that will come to an end, this -- all this nightmare for us, for all the Israelis. And we can start to heal from this trauma.
COOPER: During all your time as a hostage, you didn't have any information about your wife, Lian, about -- about your daughters, Noiya and -- and Yahel. After you'd been taken from the kibbutz, you didn't know what had happened to them. How did you learn, finally, what had happened to them, that they had been killed?
SHARABI: I've learned about it only on -- on the day of my release, February 8th, when I arrived to the Israeli border. And I met the social worker from the IDF that approached me and said to me, your mother and your sister are waiting for you in Re'im camp. And I said to her, please bring me Lian and my daughters.
And she said that my mother and my sister will tell me. And, of course, then I understood that the -- the worst scenario happened to me. And -- but I'm really, really grateful. I didn't know that before, in the days in captivity. Otherwise, I'm not sure I could survive this hell.
COOPER: You -- that you're -- you had a very close relationship, almost a paternal relationship, with Alon Ohel. What -- what is it going to be like to see him again?
SHARABI: It will be amazing, amazing, after we reunite with his family and hug them and getting better a little bit. I hope I can see him, you know, in three or four days from his release, and I can hug him again. And that's a moment that I'm dreaming of, something like 250 days since -- since I left him.
COOPER: You were also held for a time with Hersh Goldberg-Polin and other hostages from -- from the Nova Music Festival. And you've talked about how, and you wrote about it in your book, how Hersh told you this phrase, he who has a why can bear anyhow, which is originally from Nietzsche, but was also popularized by Viktor Frankl in his book, "Man's Search for Meaning." Can you just talk about what that -- that phrase, he who has a why can bear anyhow, what the importance of that and also what was Hersh like in captivity when -- when you saw him?
SHARABI: Unfortunately, I met Hersh and know him just -- just for three days. I wish I had more time with him. He was an amazing, amazing, you know, fellow and had the privilege to know him for these three days until he re -- he moved, you know, he was removed to other tunnel. And -- and the sentence he left with us from Viktor Frankl's book actually gave words to our behavior, because each one of us knew why is he surviving for and who is surviving for.
[21:00:14]
COOPER: You -- you write about your captivity in the new book, "Hostage." Eli Sharabi, thank you so much for your time tonight.
SHARABI: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
