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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump: Hegseth Finds The Press To Be "Very Disruptive;" Former Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby Reacts To New Pentagon Press Access Rules; How Scammers Are Stealing Millions Using Crypto ATMs; Jack Smith: Special Counsel Prosecutors "Not Interested In Politics"; Crowd Grows In Chicago During Immigration Arrest Operation; Newly Released Video Shows Man Setting Fire To PA Governor's Mansion; PA Gov. Shapiro Urges America Not To Become Numb To Political Violence After Attack On His Home; DOJ Investigation Of John Bolton Focuses On Diary-Like Notes In His AOL Email Account. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 14, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: I was a big fan of Dorothy. By the way, I love Gregory Maguire's book too, "Wicked", but a big fan of Dorothy, and my mother, so much so, she always gave me red shoes. So I have these special little red shoes that were given to me my mother, they're ornaments.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I love those.
BURNETT: Yes, these are my special ruby red slippers.
ENTEN: I like those.
BURNETT: And did you notice that on the bottom of these, hold on, we put the camera -- gold.
ENTEN: Oh, there's gold, there's nothing like gold.
BURNETT: Real gold, Harry, real gold.
ENTEN: Real gold, there's nothing like gold and there's no place like home.
BURNETT: Yes, there is no place like home, which in fact is where this time for Harry and I to head.
ENTEN: Goodbye.
BURNETT: But not for Anderson, thanks so much for joining us. Anderson is up now.
[20:00:35]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, an ultimatum from Defense Secretary Hegseth to reporters: Sign this pledge or lose access to The Pentagon. Find out which news organizations refused to sign and why.
Plus, CNN investigates how scammers are stealing millions of dollars from victims using crypto ATMs and see how the companies who own those machines are fighting as they try to claw back what police seized in those transactions.
And later, newly released video shows the moment a man set fire to the Pennsylvania's Governor's Mansion, with Josh Shapiro and his family sleeping inside.
Good evening, John Berman here in for Anderson.
Tonight, the Trump administration's battle with the free press or as I just heard on Fox News, the administration's effort to spoon feed information and have that be the story. And as Fox says, that's not journalism.
A deadline has just passed, issued by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth for news organizations, including CNN, to agree to unprecedented new restrictions on how they report on The Pentagon. Hegseth's press office is requiring reporters to sign a pledge not to obtain or use any material that is not officially released by the DoD even if the information is unclassified. Any journalist who does not sign the pledge risks losing access to The Pentagon.
Now, practically speaking, it would give Secretary Hegseth the power to punish virtually any news coverage he does not like. President Trump and Secretary Hegseth were asked about it late today at The White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, will you consider removing new restrictions on the press that report to The Pentagon? And have you spoken to Secretary Hegseth about this?
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I have, well, he's finding -- I mean, I think I can speak for him or let him speak for himself, but I think he finds the press to be very disruptive in terms of world peace and maybe security for our nation. The press is very dishonest.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Maybe the policy should look like The White House or other military installations where you have to wear a badge that identifies that you're press, or you can't just roam anywhere you want.
It used to be, Mr. President, the press could go anywhere, pretty much anywhere in The Pentagon, the most classified area in the world. Also that, if they sign on to the credentialing, they're not going to try to get soldiers to break the law by giving classified information.
So, it's common sense stuff. Mr. President, we're trying to make sure National Security is respected, and we're proud of the policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Keeping them honest, Pentagon reporters are already required to wear badges identifying them as press. In fact, The Pentagon has its own badge office. According to the DoD website, its open 8:00 A.M. to 4:00 P.M. most weekdays. And reporters cannot go anywhere they want in The Pentagon, they more or less have the same access that the general public does on a guided tour.
The only way a reporter can get into a secure area is for a door to be unlocked by a DoD official. As to the pledge, CNN released a joint statement with ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox News that reads in part. Today, we join virtually every other news organization in declining to agree to The Pentagon's new requirements, which would restrict journalists ability to keep the nation and the world informed of important National Security issues.
It goes on to say, the policy is without precedent and threatens core journalistic protections. The only news outlet so far to agree ahead of the deadline is the ultra-MAGA, One America News. The list of those who will not comply includes all you see on the screen now, including, as we said, Fox News, where Pete Hegseth spent years as an on air contributor and weekend host before being chosen by President Trump for defense secretary.
The President had more to say earlier today about The Pentagon restrictions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I find that when it comes to war and now our great Department of War, we have some great people over there. I think it's sort of -- it bothers me to have soldiers and even, you know, high ranking generals walking around with you guys on their sleeve, asking them because they can make a mistake and a mistake can be tragic. They can do it innocently, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: They can do it instantly. A reminder the most high profile leak of sensitive information from The Pentagon during Trump's second term so far has been from Secretary Hegseth himself. It involved sharing precise details about pending U.S. strikes on the Houthi rebel group in Yemen, in what came to be known as Signal-gate, Hegseth, apparently unknowingly shared those details with Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of "The Atlantic," on a Signal group chat about the operation.
Others on the chat included the Vice-President, the CIA director, and the Secretary of State. The chat seemed to be created by the National Security advisor at the time, Mike Waltz.
These were Hegseth's first public comments about the growing scandal back in March.
[20:05:18]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Nobody was texting war plans and that's all I have to say about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: The Pentagon's Inspector General is investigating and has received evidence that the military plans, disclosed by Hegseth were taken from a document that was marked classified at the time, that's according to sources.
And today's deadline from Hegseth very well may be about clamping down on leaks from The Pentagon. They are a source of consternation for every administration. But today's ultimatum is the latest in an unprecedented assault on the free press from the Trump administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: One of the worst reporters that you'll ever see. I don't even want to take a question. It's a waste of time.
Quiet, you're really obnoxious.
REPORTER: I'm not obnoxious, but I'm trying to ask you. What about your plans for --
TRUMP: You are really obnoxious.
Quiet, we should probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly. Its hate, you have a lot of hate in your heart. Your company paid me $16 million for a form of hate speech, so maybe they'll have to go after you.
Darling, that's fake news.
REPORTER: Why would you use the Department of Defense?
TRUMP: Listen, be quiet, listen, you don't listen. You never listen that's why you're second rate.
Only a bad person would ask a question like that, to be honest with you, I don't know who you are, but only a very evil person would ask a question like that.
REPORTER: The Pentagon announced that it would be accepting a Qatari jet to be used as Air Force One.
TRUMP: What are you talking about? You know, you need to get out of here. You're a terrible reporter. Number one, you don't have what it takes to be a reporter. You're not smart enough. You're a disgrace. No more questions from you. Fake news like this jerk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, it's not just harsh words from the President's actions and going after ABC's Jonathan Karl in that clip. Jon is a terrific journalist, by the way. You heard him mention Karl's company paying him millions of dollars. That was to settle a defamation lawsuit with ABC. The money went to Trump's Presidential Library.
There was another suit against CBS settled by its parent company, Paramount, for $15 million. He has suggested that his FCC chair could revoke broadcast licenses for networks that give him, "bad publicity." And for years he called the media the enemy of the people.
Starting us off tonight, my next guest has briefed the press from three different podiums at The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department.
Rear Admiral John Kirby has served in two different administrations and has more than 30 years of experience as a public affairs officer with the military and hasn't spoken publicly since the end of the Biden administration, but he spoke with me just before air because he thinks this issue is so important.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Admiral Kirby, I'm sure you had your share of frustrations with the press at times, but does this pledge that the secretary of defense is demanding that reporters sign? How much sense does it make to you?
ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET), FORMER COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: It makes very little sense to me, John. I mean, and I think there's really no winners here, certainly not the Defense Department and not the American people who rely so much on the terrific reporting coming out of The Pentagon press corps.
And the reason I say that the Defense Department is not winning is because you really lose something when the press leaves the building like that, and that's what's going to happen. They're going to leave the facilities. You miss a tactile feel, you miss the opportunity to talk to them every day face-to-face, find out what they're reporting on, what they're learning, what they're hearing, where they're going. And you really miss the opportunity in an information environment that is moving so fast like this one, to shape those stories before they even get published.
BERMAN: So the Secretary of Defense has painted this picture of reporters freely walking the halls, going into rooms unattended anywhere they want. Now, look, I've never covered The Pentagon. I have covered The White House. And it's not like we could just walk into the Oval Office or the Situation Room. I mean, what kind of behavior did you see in terms of movement of the press in the building?
KIRBY: They don't have access to classified spaces. They can't just walk into any office space that they want to. If they want to interview a general or an admiral in that admiral or general's office, they got to get permission and escorted in there.
The notion that they just walk freely, unfettered by any security protocols is just not accurate.
Now, they do have more free rein at The Pentagon than they do at the State Department, for instance. But again, it's all monitored. They have to wear badges. They've never had a problem wearing security badges. So, I think this argument is a little overdrawn.
BERMAN: So press freedoms at Pentagon had already been curtailed some by this administration prior to asking for this pledge. News outlets booted out of their workspaces. Journalists are now required to be escorted during certain halls. Regular news briefings have been scrapped. What kind of message do you think that all of this sends to the American people?
KIRBY: The message to the American people is they are now going to not get the kind of thoughtful, deliberate coverage that they should expect from the Defense Department. You know, an agency that spends about $1 trillion a year and their sons and daughters are being employed in dangerous places around the world and even here in the country, they have a right to know those things.
[20:10:07]
And let me tell you something else, John. I mean, this notion that you know, The Pentagon press corps is just ferreting around the building, trying to convince people to give up classified information is just not the way it works. It's not how newsgathering works at The Pentagon or here in D.C., but some of their reporting, John, can actually save lives.
You know, in 2007, a "USA Today" reporter by the name of Tom Vandenbroucke wrote a compelling piece about how military leaders were resisting the deployment of these MRAPs - Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles to protect troops from roadside bombs.
And it was that story in the "USA Today" which prompted then Defense Secretary Bob Gates to really put his spurs in and get the military to comply with that and get those MRAPs in the field and the analysis showed over a number of years that they saved maybe 10,000 or more lives. You were 10 or 15 times more likely to survive an IED, that came from good reporting. So this idea that they're just are trying to divulge National Secrets is just not an accurate portrayal of how they do their job.
BERMAN: If the intention of the policy is to control the flow of information and stop leaking, how effective do you think it will be?
KIRBY: It won't be effective, John. Look, I mean, I was Pentagon press secretary twice under two different Secretaries of Defense, and I can tell you that I'd say nine times out of ten when the reporter came to me for comment on something, the sources they got were most likely not in The Pentagon.
Now, truth to be told, I did know who their sources were. I couldn't verify that, but my sense was from the questions I was getting, that they were getting their information outside the building as well as inside the building.
And so, people are still going to talk. People are still going to answer the phone. Reporters are still going to do what they have to do to cover the military. And now they may be doing it in a more aggressive posture because they're being, you know, kicked out of the building.
BERMAN: Do you have any thoughts about why Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth might be doing this? KIRBY: I don't know, but I really hope for his sake and for the department's sake that he reconsiders this. I mean, I could be wrong about this, John, but I wouldn't be surprised if neither side really wanted to get to this point of brinksmanship, including in the department. But were here now, but that doesn't mean you can't try to find a way forward.
Last thing, I mean, I used to start my day with an intelligence briefing, 6:15 and then I'd go to some staff meetings with the Defense Secretary. And then right after that, I walked the halls and I talked to the Pentagon press corps every morning.
I used to consider that my second intelligence briefing of the day, it really helped inform me about what they cared about and what they were going to ask me at the podium later that afternoon. So it really is to their benefit. I hope they see this to their benefit, to try to find a better way forward.
BERMAN: Admiral John Kirby, it's been a while. Nice to see you again. Thank you so much for your time tonight.
KIRBY: Thank you, john.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: All right, one quick note, we are to comment a moment ago from President Trump on all of this. He was referencing concerns about leaking at The Pentagon. We thought he said members of the military could leak instantly, but he actually said innocently, either way, though, he does seem to support this policy from Defense Secretary Hegseth.
Perspective now from former deputy Pentagon press secretary during the Biden administration, Sabrina Singh, who briefly worked under my last guest, Admiral John Kirby, former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin and republican media consultant and strategist Brad Todd.
Jeff, let me start with you here, because I do think there is worth clarifying one aspect of this. Pentagon press association says some of the new policies appear to violate the First Amendment. Some news outlets may contemplate legal action here, but is this so much a legal issue?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I don't think so. I think this is an area where the courts give the government tremendous deference. This is a National Security area, The Pentagon.
The idea that a judge is going to say, I know better than you, Secretary of Defense, about how to protect the National Security secrets of the country, it strikes me as very remote. Based on everything I've seen, this seems like a bogus policy. It seems unnecessary, but I say that as a journalist, I can't imagine any court in this country would say I know better how to protect National Security and thus will overturn a decision like this. This is a policy matter, not a legal matter.
BERMAN: Yes, it may not be so much about can, it may be more about should.
TOOBIN: Yes.
BERMAN: Should they be doing this, and Sabrina to that end, who's someone who worked directly with the press at The Pentagon. Can you explain what the immediate impacts of this could be on the coverage of the military and its leadership?
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, I think what this is a big impact, not just on the military, but for the American public. I mean, this is the department that requests the biggest budget of any other agency in the U.S. government, nearly $1 trillion. And so, there is accountability that is deserved to the American taxpayer for funding operations not only all around the world, but asking our men and women in uniform and our civilian workforce to put their lives on the line.
And so, Americans and military families deserve accountability, deserve transparency from the department and frankly, something around the world will happen, some event and there will need to be some type of press briefing at some point, and not to have that press corps there right away to be able to turn on a press briefing for the Secretary to immediately brief members of the press, that is a disservice to the American public and it is a detriment for the Secretary and the office of the Secretary of Defense in the long term.
[20:15:29]
BERMAN: You could see, Brad, how someone could look at this and see it as betraying some kind of fear of transparency. And you've never impressed me as anyone who's scared of the press in any way, but one can see why that might be the impression here. What does it tell you that even Fox News is refusing to sign on here?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, John, there's a continuum in the federal government of how transparency is conducted. For instance, as John Kirby pointed out, the State Department is much tighter environment for reporters. CIA at Langley is completely off limits to reporters. And, you know, I grew up in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, around a nuclear weapons plant. There's no reporters allowed within a mile of that place. So we tolerate a lot of restrictions when it comes to National Security. And as Jeffrey points out, the courts will let us have a lot of restrictions on that.
I think you'll see some ebb and flow here. You know, this policy by Secretary Hegseth outlines that it relies on an executive order from 2010 that was signed by Barack Obama, that that gave the department some ability to regulate classified information and what's called controlled unclassified information.
There are very strict procedures in there that they have to give the archivist at the department of the archives a listing of the markings of the documents that this policy applies to. So, I'm going to give Secretary Hegseth the benefit of the doubt here, and let's wait and see how he implements the policy. TOOBIN: Can I just say, I think there's a subtext here, which is we, as journalists underestimate how unpopular we are. The public doesn't really like us, as a rule. It shows up in poll after poll. And, you know, if Hegseth thinks he can gain some political points by being tough on reporters, I think he thinks that's a win, regardless. I think it's too bad. I don't think we should be unpopular, but I think we have to recognize that's the subtext of what's going on here.
BERMAN: Look, as John Kennedy once said, I like me. Let me, let me just say that.
Sabrina, you've known a few reporters in your day and you've also known a few sources in your day. If the goal here is to stop leaking, how effective do you think it will actually be?
SINGH: This policy is not going to stop the leaks and I think to your point that you made earlier in the segment, the largest leak that came from the department came from the Secretary of Defense when he put classified information about an operation that hadn't happened into a Signal chat with a reporter.
People do leak information. That was something that we certainly dealt with when I was at the department, leaked, you know, information about operations. But that's the point of having reporters and having relationships with them to be able to work with them on the stories and to get them to really withhold information that could put our members of the military's lives at risk or in operation.
But this policy is not going to stop leaks, frankly. And I think to what Kirby said earlier, it's going to make reporters more aggressive about going after sources and stories because they're not in the building to get that tactile feel with the Office of Public Affairs there, that can help steer them and guide them and give them information that they need to disseminate information to the American public.
BERMAN: Brad, hang on one second -- it's just not like Republicans don't leak, right? I mean, it's a bipartisan affliction.
TODD: Sure, of course, it happens across the government. It frustrates the people who are in elected office, but it happens in all administrations. I would note one more thing. Donald Trump is more accessible to the press than any President that we have lived through. He loves to talk to the press. He has leaked things to the press himself over years before he was President.
And so, I think that I want to give them the benefit of the doubt here and watch them implement it, because I think Donald Trump wants his administration to be out in the press and be active.
BERMAN: Well, we'll see. Sabrina Singh, Jeffrey Toobin, Brad Todd, great to see you all tonight.
Still ahead, rare comments from former Special Counsel Jack Smith who investigated President Trump in two separate cases. Smith says, it's absolutely ludicrous, the idea that politics played a role in those cases. Also, hear what he has to say about some of the action by the President's current Justice Department.
But first, CNN investigates a growing scam across America, where victims, often retirees, are being tricked into feeding their hard earned cash into crypto ATMs and police can't get it back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUS CASON, SCAM VICTIM: I should have known better. I should have known better. I was stupid enough. I fell for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:24:13]
BERMAN: Tonight, CNN investigates a growing scam with a modern twist, one where police often can't do anything to help the victims. You've likely heard of people being duped by crooks who tricked them into believing they had to pay off a debt or were in legal trouble, and to fix it, they need to give them cash, often routed to the scammer's account.
Well, now more and more Americans are being told to feed their cash, usually, thousands of dollars, into crypto ATM.
CNN reviewed more than 700 criminal cases and complaints with ties to these ATMs. Our senior investigative correspondent Kyung Lah, shows us how the scams unfold and how they tried to steal money from her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no, no.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): You are watching a victim get scammed. One of thousands of Americans caught in a growing global crime spree that's no secret to police.
OFFICER: This is the Police Department.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care.
LAH (voice over): Or even store clerks.
STORE CLERK: A lot of people have been scammed recently.
LAH (voice over): From Georgia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody on the internet, some scam caller told him to do this.
LAH (voice over): To Massachusetts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did they tell you to do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take $31,000.00 out and then put it into a Bitcoin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh no.
LAH (voice over): Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know there's an elderly lady feeding thousands of dollars into the cryptocurrency machine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I have the bank on the phone and I'm in danger. This is Chase Bank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. No you're not, ma'am.
LAH (voice over): And Ohio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much money have you already sent to them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's $10,700.00
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus Christ, oh man.
LAH (voice over): I even talked to one of these scammers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to withdraw $9,500.00 from your account.
LAH (voice over): And you'll see how he tried to steal ten grand. This is a scam. You know it and I know it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why does it seem like? Am I talking to the reporter?
[20:25:50]
LAH (voice over): In all of these cases, these machines called crypto ATMs become the getaway car for the scammers who prey on victims like Gus Cason.
CASON: After I stepped in $100.00 bills, it would prompt you for everything that come up and I had him on the phone, too.
LAH (on camera): Had you ever seen this before?
CASON: Never been here before. Never been here after.
LAH (voice over): Just outside Cedar Rapids, Iowa is where Gus Cason calls home. Aged 71, a retired union worker and super fan of the band Nickelback. Two years ago, as he was recovering from a stroke
CASON: I got a phone call. Well, he told me he was President of the bank. I said, now you tell me. I want you to swear that you're not a scam. I swear I'm not a scam and all that. He convinced me he was good. He was good. I just had a stroke. I wasn't thinking right at all. LAH (voice over): The scammer told Gus that he would be arrested unless he withdrew $15,000.00 in cash and deposited it in that crypto ATM. It looks like a normal ATM, but a crypto ATM is different, put in cash and it converts it into cryptocurrency in an instant. Victims like Gus have lost about $240 million so far this year, says the FBI. Double the pace of last year.
CASON: I should have known better. I should have known better. I was stupid enough, I fell for it.
LAH (voice over): The scammer took off with Gus' cash in the form of cryptocurrency. But the crypto ATM company also made money from the transaction.
Our investigation found the companies that operate crypto ATMs profit off the fees and markups, often at 20 to 30 percent that they charge on transactions, scam or legit. And when police have seized the scammed cash out of the ATMs, the crypto ATM companies hit back hard in court to get that cash back, which is what happened to Gus Cason.
CHAD COLSTON, LINN COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, IOWA: This is our evidence processing room.
LAH (voice over): Major Chad Coltson and his deputies at the Linn County Sheriff's Office managed to recover the $15,000.00 in cash that Gus had put into that crypto ATM as evidence in a crime.
LAH (on camera): How confident were you that the victim would get that money back after you took it out of the machine?
COLSTON: So we were very confident.
LAH (voice over): His confidence was short lived. Bitcoin Depot, the company with the most crypto ATMs in the U.S. fought in court to get the $15,000.00 back. The company points out its machines, like many crypto ATMs have multiple on screen warnings, alerts of scams and requires that customers agree that they're only sending money to their own accounts. So in court, Bitcoin Depot won.
COLSTON: We ended up getting a communication from Bitcoin Depot. They said it was a glorious day, gentlemen, when can we come get our money? Which was our victim's money? A multi-million dollar company is overjoyed that they get $15,000.00 and our victim is, you know, hurting. I mean, that's their life savings.
LAH (voice over): Bitcoin Depot has used tough tactics to stop police from seizing money for evidence like threats to immediately litigate or suspending fee refunds in entire states of a single officer tries to seize cash.
Bitcoin Depot even sent an Amazon gift to mock one police department, a copy of the U.S. Constitution, with a note calling the seizure of a scam victim's money a Fourth Amendment violation.
After we reached out to Bitcoin Depot about these messages to police, the company told us the messages were unacceptable and the employee responsible is no longer with Bitcoin Depot.
LAH (on camera): What do you think, Gus, that everybody seemed to get money, but you who saved that money?
CASON: You know, Bitcoin had no business getting that money at all. I mean, really, when especially when it's a scam.
LAH (on camera): Do you think that's fair?
CASON: Well, hell no.
LAH (voice over): Lawsuits from attorneys general accuse the top three crypto ATM firms of profiting from scams and not protecting customers. Iowa's A.G. -- more than half of all money taken in by Bitcoin Depot in Iowa over three years came from scams. Washington, D.C.'s A.G. -- at least 93 percent of deposits over several months from Athena Bitcoin machines came from scams.
[20:30:08]
Athena Bitcoin tells CNN it strongly disputes the allegations in the complaint and says it has strong safeguards against fraud. Bitcoin Depot tells us we do not profit from scams, and the vast majority of our customers use our kiosks for lawful purposes. The company adds, if it can't stop the transaction, it reviews every potential scam case individually for possible fee relief or refunds.
But we spoke to nearly a dozen victims who were tricked by scammers while using Bitcoin Depot machines, and only one said she got a fee refund.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Wow. And CNN's Kyung Lah joins us now.
Kyung, these scammers must be really convincing in order to get people to put money, actual money into those machines.
LAH (on-camera): Yes, real money, thousands of dollars into a machine, right? So a lot of these victims, John, describe almost being in a trance. They are so convinced by these scammers because they are that good.
Now, tomorrow night, I will take you inside one of these scams, how it unfolds, how this scam goes step by step all the way to the crypto ATM. And I'll show you that tomorrow night. John?
BERMAN: Cannot wait to see that. Terrific reporting.
Kyung Lah, thank you very much.
Up next, in rare public remarks, Former Special Counsel Jack Smith defends his dual prosecutions of President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: The idea that politics would play a role in big cases like this, it's absolutely ludicrous.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BERMAN: Plus, a major development in the case of the arson attack back in April on the Pennsylvania governor's mansion while the governor and his family were sleeping. And video is released of the attack as it unfolded.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:30]
BERMAN: We're hearing tonight from Former Special Counsel Jack Smith, who in a rare public interview defends his high profile investigations of former President Trump while he was former president. He is now, of course, the president. The release of his interview, which was recorded last week, comes as the House Judiciary Committee called today for Smith to testify before the panel.
You will recall that he filed charges in two separate investigations of Trump, one for his alleged mishandling of classified documents, at his Mar-a-Lago residence, and also for allegedly trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election. Both cases ended when Trump was re- elected last November.
Now, Republicans have long accused the Biden Justice Department and Smith in particular of weaponizing the DOJ and purposefully targeting Trump. In his interview, Smith calls that accusation nonsense.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SMITH: The idea that politics would play a role in big cases like this, it's absolutely ludicrous, and it's totally contrary to my experience as a prosecutor from, again, the time I was a junior prosecutor.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BERMAN: With us now is Michael Moore, former U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Georgia. Michael, good to see you.
I want to play you something else that Jack Smith said in his interview with Andrew Weissmann.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SMITH: One of the topics I really like to talk with folks about, because I don't think it's talked about enough, is the just incredible high level of integrity, and competence, and willingness to sacrifice of the people who do this work. And I'm talking about the people I worked with in the special counsel's office, but the Department of Justice in the U.S., the FBI, are filled with people like this.
They're not interested in politics. And I get very concerned when I see how easy it is to demonize these people for political ends, when these are the very sort of people I think we should be celebrating. (END VIDEOCLIP)
BERMAN: So, Michael, Jack Smith obviously pushing back pretty hard against the idea these were political prosecutions. What do you hear in the way he speaks there?
MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, well, I'm glad to be with you tonight. You know, I think he's telling the truth. I think he's talking about the good people who work at sometimes as career prosecutors, other times as appointed prosecutors, but people who've given their time and talent to public service.
And, you know, what you're finding is that there's sort of a reticence now for people to come to step forward, or there's a reticence for people to stay in the job and do the work that they've been doing for a number of years because of threats or fear of threats that, you know, something's going to be said about them, or against them, or they're going to be sued. But it's not unique to the Department of Justice.
This is the kind of thing that this administration has done to law firms, to universities, to individuals, to media people, to celebrities. You know, these threats are an effort to get people to muzzle up, and that's what the concern is. And so I think he's talking about good folks who've said, look, I just can't do this anymore.
I'm not going to take, you know, these kind of orders and directives, and I'm going to step back and do something else. But my service is obviously no longer appreciated, at least by the current administration of the United States.
BERMAN: Let me play one other thing that Jack Smith said about the current environment in the Justice Department.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SMITH: You know, I worked in the department for years. Republican, Democrat, Republican. I worked in the -- I was the acting U.S. attorney in the first Trump administration in Tennessee. Nothing like what we see now has ever gone on.
This case in New York City, where the case against the mayor was dismissed in the hopes that he would support the President's political agenda. I mean, just so you know, nothing like it has ever happened that I've ever heard of.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
[20:40:12]
BERMAN: Nothing like this has ever happened before, he says. That's pretty extreme.
MOORE: Yes. It's right on and it's spot on for what's going on. I mean, I can tell you when we were first brought to the White House as United States attorneys in our group, President Obama brought us in. He said, look, you don't work for me.
So you're not my lawyers. You work for the American people. You're not here to do my bidding. I don't think that conversation has ever been had in the current administration. When you see things like U.S. attorneys forced out because they make a prosecution decision that disagrees with the administration or and the administration then brings in somebody who's probably never been in a grand jury room or much less a prosecutor and within a couple of days, they indict a case that career prosecutors have said, look, there's nothing here. No reason to indict them.
Or you see the threats to other people, you see career prosecutors being forced out, you know that something's wrong. And again, this is not just indicative of what's going on with the Department of Justice, but this is just an indication that this administration is willing to put the noose around the necks of people to get them to do their bidding. And folks, frankly, are afraid of that.
This is very different because the department and U.S. attorneys particularly have been very careful to keep a wall up between us and the administration. And that way we were never accused of doing something that was just political. There's a case that many of us know, and it talks about the job of the U.S. attorney is not to get a conviction. It's to find the truth. And that's something that I think a lot of folks today, it might do them well to read it.
BERMAN: Interesting to hear from Jack Smith that a lot we might hear from him soon when he testifies or if he testifies --
MOORE: I guess we would.
BERMAN: -- before the U.S. House.
Michael Moore, great to see you. Thank you very much.
Tense moments in Chicago this afternoon between U.S. Border Patrol agents and community residents as President Trump pushes to move National Guard troops into the city. A crowd grew on a street on the far southeast side following a car chasing crash during an immigration enforcement operations.
Agents eventually tracked down and arrested two people. According to the Department of Homeland Security, the crowd grew hostile and agents fired tear gas to disperse everyone.
CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us now from Chicago. Omar, what can you tell us about what went down here?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So as you mentioned, this started with a U.S. Border Patrol going after and eventually crashing into a vehicle as part of an immigration enforcement operations on the far southeast side of Chicago. And I've seen video sort of the end of this chase or essentially the crash part.
And it shows a white SUV, which would be DHS crashing into a red SUV, sending the vehicle into a third car. And then two people get out of the red SUV and start running and then agents start chasing after those people. Now, DHS says that they were in the country illegally and that before this, they had hit a Border Patrol vehicle before fleeing. That's their account.
But that's only part of the story here, because after that arrest happened, a crowd began to grow in this neighborhood, upset not just over the fact that federal agents were in the neighborhood, but also the manner in which this arrest actually happened. Chicago police responded to the scene, not as part of the immigration enforcement, but responding to initial calls for a traffic accident.
And then that turned into trying to deescalate the crowd. And Chicago police said that people started throwing objects at the agents. The agents then deployed tear gas. One of the people affected by the tear gas was actually filming on their cell phone the moments leading up to that.
And this video I'm about to show you essentially picks up after an agent was hit by something. According to a witness. There's some pushing and shoving back and forth. An agent appears to knock this person's phone out of their hand.
Just take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know you (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't be (INAUDIBLE)
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here.
Out of here now. Get out of here.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
JIMENEZ: And you may have seen a small kid on the scene as that tear gas went off. I should note, police were also on the scene. And this is at least the second time in less than two weeks that police were hit by tear gas deployed by federal agents who were trying to control a crowd as they saw fit, John.
BERMAN: I got to say, Omar Jimenez, great to have you there doing this reporting. Thank you very much.
Investigators released video of the firebombing of the Pennsylvania governor's mansion during a major development in the case in court.
And later, more breaking news, what prosecutors are eyeing in the investigation into John Bolton, the President's former national security adviser, turned political foe.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
[20:49:45]
BERMAN: In a Pennsylvania courtroom today, video evidence was shared in the April assassination attempt of Governor Josh Shapiro. This says the arsonist pleaded guilty to attempted murder, 22 counts of arson, and other charges.
Take a look. That is the moment Cody Balmer tossed a makeshift Molotov cocktail inside the governor's mansion, one of several he used. And the governor talked more about the attack today that occurred as he and his family slept.]
The latest from CNN's Danny Freeman.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
[20:50:13]
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The attack at Governor Josh Shapiro's home unfolded in a matter of minutes. New surveillance video played in court Tuesday showing the arsonist, Cody Balmer, setting the governor's mansion on fire and smashing a window at Shapiro's residence before climbing in.
You can then see Balmer throwing makeshift Molotov cocktails in the dining room where just hours earlier, the governor celebrated the Jewish holiday of Passover with family and friends.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It's especially hard to know that he tried to burn our family to death while we slept.
FREEMAN (voice-over): The frightening video also shows Balmer stalking through the residence, repeatedly kicking doors to try and get deeper into the home. This sledgehammer in his hand.
SHAPIRO: I know those videos are chilling. They've been haunting me for months. I've been trying to unsee them for the last six months.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Today, Balmer pleaded guilty to all charges, including attempted murder of Shapiro, aggravated arson, and 22 counts of arson for each of the 22 people who were in the residence at the time of the attack, including Shapiro's children.
The district attorney said, "Balmer cited the military actions of the state of Israel in Gaza" as a motivation for the attack on the Jewish governor. But Balmer later told the Associated Press, quote, "He can be Jewish, Muslim or a purple people eater for all I care and as long as he leaves me and mine alone."
SHAPIRO: I want you to know we are not deterred in our desire to serve others, in part because of our faith and how strongly we lean on it, and in part because of the examples that others have set for us. FREEMAN (voice-over): In an exclusive interview with CNN tonight, the governor argued America cannot become numb to political violence.
SHAPIRO: Not even as a governor, but just as a dad. The notion that doing the job that I love so much, right, serving my fellow Pennsylvanians, that that would put my kids' lives at risk, that that would put my wife's life at risk, let alone my own, that's a hard thing to work through.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
FREEMAN (on-camera): Now, John, I just want to say a quick word about security, because the biggest question, of course, everyone had when this happened was how could something like this have happened? Well, having been out there at the governor's residence, it's not a fortress. It's not the White House.
And it was really scary to realize, actually, it was truly possible. Balmer only inside of the residence for about two minutes. The fences were not super tall. However, a security review was done after the incident. State police accepted that review from an outside source. They did implement changes, although the changes have not been made public.
Last thing, John, Balmer sentenced to 25 to 50 years in a state correctional institution. John?
BERMAN: Great reporting tonight.
Danny Freeman, thank you so much.
Up next, we have breaking news in the federal investigation into former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:52]
BERMAN: Breaking news tonight in the Justice Department's investigation into former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton. CNN Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz joins us now.
Katelyn, what more can you tell us about the emails that investigators seem focused on?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John, according to the sources I'm talking to, this investigation is one about John Bolton's AOL account of all things. It was something that he had active when he was the National Security Adviser in the first Trump administration.
And during that time, he was writing in that AOL account summaries, or as one person described to me, something like diaries. Maybe not every day, but summaries of what he was experiencing. And that is something that could contain potentially classified information. Now, remember, John, Bolton has not been charged at this time. This is a lengthy investigation, and there have been other aspects of it as well. Ones that Donald Trump wanted to have looked into, such as Bolton's work on a book manuscript that he published in 2020 about his time in the Trump White House.
But this AOL account, this is the new thing that we're learning, that we know prosecutors have looked at for quite some time. And it may not even be that John Bolton wanted to put things in an account to share anywhere. Just the fact that they may be in an unsecured location, a place where other people could potentially have access to it, that is enough at times under the way that prosecutors would look at mishandling classified records laws. John?
BERMAN: You noted that John Bolton has not been charged. Is it clear if and when that might change?
POLANTZ: Well, John, it does appear at this very moment that the possibility of an indictment is nigh. It could be any day now. The reason I say that is because before they had done this search of John Bolton's home and his office, just in the end of August, essentially. And there was a split between the political leadership of the Justice Department and the prosecutors who were working on this case for quite some time.
That split, it wasn't over whether to bring a case, it was over the timing of the case. The prosecutors, they wanted to wait until later, but they have withdrawn that hesitation. And as of Saturday, sources were telling me that they were at work on this indictment.
They would just need to take it through a grand jury. But, John, we've talked many times before, court can be very unpredictable. So we don't know exactly when and even if John Bolton would face class charges around the mishandling of classified records as he's been investigated.
BERMAN: So stay tuned.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much.
BERMAN: That's all for us tonight. I'll see you in the morning.
The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.
