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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
President Trump Commutes Prison Sentence Of Ex-Rep, George Santos; Interview With Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL); Trump On Ukraine And Russia: Let Both Claim Victory; Prince Andrew Gives Up Royal Titles As Epstein Controversy Intensifies; House Oversight Committee Releases Acosta Transcript And Epstein Estate Files; Instagram Introduces New Parental Control Features; Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff Apologies For Suggesting The National Guard Should Be Sent To San Francisco; NY Times: Trump's Aid Cuts Devastate Somalia's Health System. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 17, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN HAVANA-BASED CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ... with little to no military experience.
NICOLAS MADURO, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): Our mobilization will be permanent and never stop.
OPPMANN (voice over): Maduro posting this video to Instagram today with a message: "We continue completing all the necessary preparations, reaching the optimal state for the defense of the homeland."
Maduro, even trying in broken English to send a message directed to the American people.
MADURO: No, not war, just peace.
OPPMANN (voice over): Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Panama City, Panama.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And thanks so much for joining us on this Friday. AC360 begins now.
[20:00:43]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, expelled from the House, convicted of fraud, sentenced to prison and now George Santos is getting sprung by a President who's calling him somewhat of a rogue.
Also tonight, after meeting with Ukraine's President and talking by phone with Putin, the President now says that both sides should claim victory and stop the fighting where they are.
Plus, why Andrew is now a prince in name only. Forced to give up the last of his royal titles after a disturbing reminder of his ties to Jeffrey Epstein and a private meeting with King Charles.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with the man who allegedly built a homeless veteran out of thousands of dollars from the GoFundMe for the veteran's dying dog. He's also the guy who left Brazil, where he was accused of fraud, which he later admitted to using a fake name and stolen checkbook to rip off a local shop.
Also, on the resume of repulsiveness, he falsely claimed to be the grandchild of holocaust survivors whose mother escaped the collapsing south tower of 9/11, neither was true. Then, of course, were the lies about having two college degrees, working at Goldman Sachs and losing four employees in the Pulse Nightclub shooting. He also indicated he was Jewish, he isn't, and boasted of having been a college volleyball star when he hadn't been at a college he said he attended but didn't.
Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together for the one and only George Santos. Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE SANTOS, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE OF NEW YORK: My mom was a 9/11 survivor. She was in the South Tower. And she made it out. She got caught up in the ash cloud.
I was not a drag queen in Brazil, guys. I was young and I had fun at a festival. Sue me for having a life.
REPORTER: Can we confirm, Kitara of Ashe was your drag personality?
SANTOS: For a day.
REPORTER: For a day.
SANTOS: For a day when I was 18 years old.
One of my staffers made me look at this baby, Mr. Speaker.
REPORTER: Congressman Santos, what are you doing to stop the ongoing genocide of Palestinians?
SANTOS: And the next time he tries to accost me with a child in my hand, I want him out of here.
REPORTER: What happened exactly?
SANTOS: He's an animal.
They sent me to a good prep school. So -- which was Horace Mann Prep in the Bronx.
I actually went to school on a volleyball scholarship. I sacrificed both my knees and got very nice knee replacements -- knee replacements from HSS playing volleyball.
When I was in Baruch, we were the number one volleyball team.
REPORTER: Did you graduate?
SANTOS: I put myself through college and got an MBA from NYU.
I've seen how socialism destroys people's lives because my grandparents survived the Holocaust.
I'm a Latino Jew.
Because the reality is, I never said I was Jewish. I would always joke for years I say I'm Jew-ish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Wow, he really sold that Holocaust. More seriously, George Santos pleaded guilty to and was sentenced for aggravated identity theft and wire fraud charges stemming from activity during his 2022 House campaign. He was expelled from the House, sentenced to more than seven years in federal prison until late today, when the President commuted it to time served.
Word came in a Truth Social post which reads in part, "George Santos was somewhat of a rogue, but there are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to serve seven years in prison. I started to think about George when the subject of Democrat Senator Richard 'Da Nang Dick' Blumenthal came up again." The President continues about Senator Blumenthal. "He was a complete and total fraud. He never went to Vietnam. He never saw Vietnam. He never experienced the battles there or anywhere else."
The President adds that, "This is far worse than what George Santos did and at least Santos had the courage, conviction, and intelligence to always vote Republican. George has been in solitary confinement for long stretches of time, and by all accounts, has been horribly mistreated. Therefore, I just signed a commutation, releasing George Santos from prison immediately. Good luck George, have a great life."
CNN's chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source," Kaitlan Collins, joins us now with more. Do we know why the President reached down into the grab bag of potential people and picked out George Santos?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's not clear why tonight, but this is something that he had been talking about ever since. People have been pushing for this behind-the-scenes. Trump had been talking about since Pam Bondi testified on Capitol Hill a couple of weeks ago, and was questioned by Senator Richard Blumenthal and Trump that evening posted this long diatribe against him, complaining about how he misrepresented his military service 15 years ago, something that that Blumenthal has apologized for and acknowledged since.
And in this post, he referenced that there are lawmakers sitting in jail who have done far less, and that was a reference to George Santos that night. And it was right then that from people I've heard that have spoken with Trump, that it started becoming a thing that he was talking about, spurred on by that. It's something that people like Marjorie Taylor Greene have been pushing for.
She wrote a letter urging him to be commuted in a sentence -- his sentence be commuted a few months ago, basically saying that there are lawmakers who have done far worse is what her argument was. I don't think it was specifically in reference to Blumenthal. But the thing that stood out to me about his post tonight is he's complaining about how George Santos was treated in prison, something that George Santos himself complained about in a bunch of posts -- columns that he put online.
I mean, Trump obviously is in charge of the Bureau of Prisons.
COOPER: Sure now.
COLLINS: He could technically see to that if he actually thought that was the issue.
[20:05:39]
COOPER: Or be concerned about the other prisoners left behind who maybe are getting the same treatment and maybe might want to improve --
COLLINS: But Santos has political allies who are in Trump's ear that are pushing for this, and it's not completely surprising. Trump has pardoned probably ten or so members of Congress who are convicted of crimes. Obviously, George Santos pleaded guilty to his. And so, I don't think it's completely out of his pattern that he's commuting his sentence tonight.
Last I heard before we came on the air, Trump had not yet spoken to George Santos. But we'll see if they do.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. We'll see you at the top of the hour on "The Source."
Joining me now is one-time House colleague of George Santos, Democratic Congressman from Illinois, Raja Krishnamoorthi. He serves on the Oversight and Intelligence Committees. Also, former special state attorney general focused on rooting out corruption. Congressman, what is your reaction to George Santos getting out of all the people who could have possibly gotten a commutation for time served, what do you make of it?
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): I think it's appalling. It's not right. I think there are two systems of justice that people perceive in this country. One, if you're connected, you're powerful. You have the ear of the President, you get one set of treatment, and then if you're not, you get another set.
I was with some people who said that they immigrated to this country, in part to escape systems where that type of treatment existed to come here. And now they're finding it meted out by this President, which is completely disgraceful.
COOPER: What message do you think this sends to other incarcerated people or actually, I guess really to other convicted felons or would be convicted felons to say nothing of how it veers away from the GOP's law and order message?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think it sends the message that, you know basically, who you know, who you know, matters as much as anything else. And if you are connected to the President, you get the ear of him, you're able to somehow convince him that you are Republican, that you, "always voted Republican," that you're going to get maybe more sympathetic treatment.
It just reminds me of, you know, how Ghislaine Maxwell, in that interview, you know that Todd Blanche of the Justice Department, conducted tried to kind of basically appeal to a party of one, namely Donald Trump as she tries to get a pardon for her own horrible crimes.
And again, it just reinforces the image that if you're Jeffrey Epstein, if you're George Santos, if you're somebody wealthy and connected, especially to this President, you're going to get off scot- free, potentially.
COOPER: So, a commutation is different than a pardon. Santos is still a convicted felon. Does that make any difference about his life post- incarceration?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know, I'm not positive. But at the end of the day, he served three months out of a seven-year sentence. He pled guilty to what he did and, you know, anybody else who's not named George Santos is not getting that type of treatment right now.
COOPER: Yes, Congressman Krishnamoorthi, thank you so much.
Joining us now is Jeffrey Toobin, former federal prosecutor and author of "The Pardon: The Politics of Presidential Mercy." Also, former Justice Department pardon attorney, Liz Oyer and former Illinois Republican Congressman Joe Walsh.
So, Jeff, Santos obviously has been a big supporter of the President, even asked the President to do this, touting his allegiance to him. Is this how the rule of law should work?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, AUTHOR AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it's certainly permissible under the Constitution. This is one of the few absolute powers that a President has. It can't be challenged in court. It can't be challenged in Congress. But I think it's really worth remembering, Anderson, that this wasn't just the ridiculous lies that that Santos told about his family and his own background. He ripped people off. He was sentenced to pay $373,000.00 in restitution, $205,000.00 for forfeitures. This is money that he stole from people, and yet, now he gets away with it completely.
[20:10:15]
COOPER: Does he have to pay that money? I mean, I don't know if he has paid that money or would he have to?
TOOBIN: I think it's -- we need to see the exact papers that the President filed, not just his social media post. Maybe Liz, who knows a lot more about this than I do, can tell us about that.
COOPER: Liz, what do you what do you think?
LIZ OYER, FORMER DOJ PARDON ATTORNEY: So, Jeff's right that we do need to see the exact paperwork, but in most of the commutations that Trump has issued thus far, he has forgiven all of the money portion of the sentence. So, the folks who've gotten commutations to date do not have to pay back any of the money that they owed to the victims of their frauds.
COOPER: So, it's not money that would be paid to the U.S. government. It's money that would supposed to have been paid to the victims of this.
OYER: That's right.
COOPER: He might not have to actually do that.
OYER: Yes, that's right. What Donald Trump has done here is really extraordinary. He's not following any process for granting pardons. He is granting them as he sees fit, sort of off-the-cuff whenever he wants to and he's bypassing the traditional process for review and vetting of pardon applicants, which would include consulting with the victims to see if they have an objection to a pardon, which would they very well might in this case.
It also would typically include consulting with the U.S. attorney who prosecuted the case. In this instance, it was prosecuted and sentenced under Donald Trump's own Justice Department. A press release that was issued back in July or May when he was sentenced, was touting this as a really excellent result for the justice system where a public official is finally going to be held accountable for a serious crime. And that was issued by an interim U.S. attorney appointed by Donald Trump. So, it is pretty extraordinary to see this about-face that has happened.
COOPER: Congressman Walsh, how much do you think this sends a message to people, you know, who want favors from the President, who you know, that essentially, if you can reach to the President that they're open for business in terms of handing out favors, handing out pardons if necessary, or commutations if necessary.
JOE WALSH (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Oh, yes, Anderson, I mean, look, this is just the latest instance of Trump making an utter joke of justice in this country. To your point, if you're a friend of Trump's, if you're a Republican, I mean, think about what Trump said in his post tonight. What did he say about Santos? He had the courage to vote Republican. What does that have to do with any crimes he committed or anything he pled guilty to?
But that's Trump sending a signal to every Republican out there, every friend of Trump. This is what the 10th former Republican member that he's pardoned or commuted the sentence of. He has utterly politicized justice in this country and made it clear, send a really overt signal that that if you're a friend of his, man, come on, knock on my door, I'll be there for you. COOPER: Jeff, I want to play something the President said recently
about Santos without naming him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have a young congressman that's right now in jail for lying about where he went to college and other things. It was, you know, frankly, not good. It was pretty bad, but it was nothing compared to Blumenthal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, as you pointed out, Jeff, that is not why he was in jail.
TOOBIN: That is not why he's in jail and look, you know, Senator Blumenthal has apologized for, you know, for years for claiming that he was in Vietnam, but he did not claim that he was a battle hero as the President said in his statement today.
I mean, you know, what he said was bad enough, but the President told a series of falsehoods about what Blumenthal had said.
But, you know, the point is that, you know, there are actual victims here. I mean, this isn't just a comic figure of, you know, someone who told lies about where he went to college. I mean, there are people who lost thousands of dollars to this guy, and they are left holding the bag here, and it's just a real insult to them.
COOPER: Is there -- Liz, I mean, is there any kind of fund like a victim's restitution fund that those people might have access to? I mean, it's stunning to me that they would end up, as Jeff said, holding the bag here.
OYER: I actually think the more stunning part of this is the way that this is deviated from ordinary process, at the detriment of people who are waiting their turn to be considered for this same exact type of relief. There are about 15,000 applications for commutations and pardons pending at the Justice Department that this President is completely ignoring in favor of people like George Santos. It has completely delegitimized the pardon power in the eyes of many Americans. And that is really very unfortunate.
I'm somebody who devoted a large part of my career to providing opportunities for second chances through clemency. That is something for which there is an important place in our justice system if it's done properly and fairly and in a way that improves the fairness of our system. But Donald Trump has made a mockery of that process. He has used it in ways that are novel. I mean, he's found new ways to use and abuse and misuse the pardon power that we have never seen before in this country and it is doing a tremendous amount of damage to public confidence in our justice system.
[20:15:35]
COOPER: Congressman, I'm sorry, go ahead, Jeff. TOOBIN: Anderson, pardons spread breeds cynicism. You know when
insiders get pardons, whether its Hunter Biden from his father, whether its Charles Kushner, who is the father-in-law of Trump's daughter, who got a pardon. I mean, these -- you know, each individual pardon probably doesn't matter that much. But people look at this process and see that there are two separate judicial systems in this country and it's a disgrace that's a lot bigger than any individual pardon.
COOPER: Congressman, if Santos wanted to run again for Congress, would he be able to? Do you think there's a district somewhere in the country where he could actually win?
WALSH: Anderson, I'd be a fool if I said no, there isn't, of course there is. I mean, we're talking about, again, Donald Trump and Republicans in this age of Trump now, there's no shame. There's no apologies, there's no accountability for anything you've done wrong. Santos, Anderson, like, damn near every Republican has learned from Trump, man, double down, lie, you can get away with anything. And in this case, if you're his friend, you can be a fraudster and get away with it. This is just a horrible mockery of our justice system.
COOPER: Joe Walsh, thank you. Liz Oyer, Jeff Toobin, thank you very much.
Coming up next, we have more breaking news. the President just made it even clearer in the wake of his meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, how he'd like the war in Ukraine to end.
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TRUMP: You stop at the battle line and both sides should go home, go to their families, stop the killing and that should be it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, also, new word on the tomahawk missiles that Zelenskyy has been seeking. What the President told him about them today.
And later, Britain's Prince Andrew and new developments in the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, which apparently prompted him to relinquish his last major titles. We'll have more on that.
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[20:21:55]
COOPER: Now, the President just weighed in on how he thinks the war in Ukraine should end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They should stop the war immediately. You go by the battle line wherever it is. Otherwise, it's too complicated. You'll never be able to figure it out. You stop at the battle line, and both sides should go home. Go to their families. Stop the killing and that should be it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Those are his remarks on the tarmac in West Palm Beach. They come just a few hours after his White House meeting with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy today, during which he was already backing away from his prior statements about Ukraine being able to drive Russian forces entirely out of the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: A few weeks ago in New York, when you two met, you said that you think Ukraine could ultimately take back all the territory that it has lost so far. Do you still think that's the case, or do you think they'll have to be some sort of sought territory?
TRUMP: You'll never know. You know, war is very interesting. You never know, do you? You just never know. With war -- war and peace, but you never know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A short time later, he posted online, "Let both claim victory, let history decide." And then in Florida, he said what you just heard about the existing battle lines being essentially the new border should be. The President also appeared to back away from suggestions that he might provide Ukraine with long range American Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. Several sources telling CNN that he flatly said no for now.
In addition to coming away empty handed, it seems President Zelenskyy also had to navigate through some rocky diplomatic shoals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What do you see as the biggest difference in diplomacy between President Trump and President Biden?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: President Trump has a big chance now to finish this war. President Biden now is not the President, so he doesn't have a chance to finish this war. And President Trump has really showed for the world that he can manage ceasefire in the Middle East. And that's why I hope that he will do this and we will also have such big success for Ukraine, it's a big chance, and I hope that President Trump can manage it.
TRUMP: I would say the biggest difference is one is extremely competent and the other one is grossly incompetent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, separately, the President was also blunt about the fact that American military pressure is having on Venezuela, including reportedly offering natural resources to secure a deal with Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: He has offered everything. He's offered everything. You're
right. You know why? Because he doesn't want to fuck around with the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: No less vulgar was his Press Secretary, according to a correspondent for the "Huffington Post" who is reporting that his question about who chose Budapest as the site of the upcoming Trump- Putin Summit was met by the following answer, again from Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, "Your mom did."
Joining me now with more is former Obama White House chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel, who spent -- recently served as U.S. Ambassador to Japan, among many other things, in a long illustrious career.
So, ambassador, officials tell CNN that in today's meeting, President Trump was under the impression that Ukraine is seeking to escalate and prolong the conflict and is worried about potential losses during an upcoming harsh winter. Where do you see this going? Because, I mean, in one meeting, there's one thing said, and then in another meeting, it seems like that's forgotten and something else was said.
[20:25:21]
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Look, I don't think President Trump realizes how vulnerable President Putin is and every time he thinks he's going to apply pressure, Putin goes in major league, tries to engage with the President to postpone that pressure. One, President Putin decided to try to stop with this war. NATO's expansion now, Sweden and Finland are part of NATO, and you have an 800-mile long border between NATO and Russia that didn't exist before.
Second, he wanted to establish Russia as a superpower and you lose a million men. Your leadership is seen as feckless. Your intelligence agency has got three major elements wrong in that effort. And you're also dependent on North Korean soldiers, Arab Mercenaries and Iranian technology, not the qualities or the makeup of a superpower.
And then lastly, your empire, that you're the Russian empire, Moldova, just voted a European oriented government, Azerbaijan and Armenia said that the United States and the West is where they want to be part of. They don't see Moscow as that area. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan are now offering parts to China and to E.U. to engage.
Every part of, "the efforts of this war," President Putin has lost. And what the United States should do now in upcoming to the Budapest meeting, take all the limitations off the ACAMed weapons, retake all the restrictions off. Let Ukraine do what it needs to do. Let the Senate pass the sanctions bill and allow Europe to access the resources that Russia has in those banks to start to fund the weapons acquisitions by Ukraine. That type of pressure will get President Putin's attention and have him negotiate in real reasons and real way, which he isn't to date.
COOPER: Do you think Putin would agree to a ceasefire along the lines?
EMANUEL: No, because look, for two reasons. One, he wants victory. The President of the United States wants a ceasefire and a victory he needs, because if you go through Russian history, when they lost in Afghanistan, it was the end of communism in the Soviet Union.
At the end of world War II, Stalin did not want the troops to come home because he feared for his own security. President Putin knows he's not a fool. He knows if this war ends now, he has to go to the Russian people and say, we lost a million people. Our economy is now in shambles, where our empire and "superpower status" is totally negated and he will be vulnerable politically and he knows it.
So he has to have victory, otherwise, he is missing in action politically and he will be a very vulnerable president. You just saw the protests the other day in Saint Petersburg. This is starting to come home to roost. No leader has a war this bad without political consequences domestically.
COOPER: So, do you think he's stalling for time with these summits or these meetings?
EMANUEL: A hundred percent. Let me say this about President Trump, not about President Putin. President Trump punches down. You saw he did that to Ukraine President when they had the first meeting, the South African President, European leaders, the way he smacked them, the same way he dealt with Trudeau from Canada.
When it comes to Russia and China, he gets an itch in his eye and he constantly blinks. Tomahawks with Russia, tariffs with China.
I don't know what happens to him and I think President Putin knows how to play President Trump. But he basically blinks with these two countries without really assessing, at least in this situation, the leverage and power for the United States has over Russia. It has failed in this war and we have not seized that failure.
We constantly let Ukraine do enough not to lose, but not enough to win. And they can stop this war and get actually an honorable cease fire and an honorable peace, because Putin has lost so much and it's been exposed as the emperor has no clothes.
COOPER: It is extraordinary, the Russian death toll in this war that he's been able to stay in power through.
EMANUEL: Yes, Anderson, nobody autocratic or democratic, loses a million men to both death and wounded and survives politically, domestically, it just doesn't happen. And he knows if this war ends, he has a comeuppance with the Russian people and he won't survive.
COOPER: Ambassador Emanuel, thank you. Rahm Emanuel, appreciate it.
Up next, what's behind today's major announcement from Britain's Prince Andrew giving up his royal titles.
Plus, journalist Kara Swisher on a major tech CEO who first suggested that the administration should send National Guard troops to San Francisco and is now unsuggesting it with apologies.
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KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This was very disappointing and incredibly, what's the word, boneheaded?
[20:30:05]
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[20:34:45]
COOPER: "It would seem we are in this together and we'll have to rise above it." That was part of an email that Britain's Prince Andrew sent to Jeffrey Epstein, according to a report earlier this week in The Guardian and several other U.K. papers.
Now, The Guardian says it was sent in February of 2011, after this photo was published of the Prince with his arm around a teenage Virginia Giuffre.
[20:35:06]
"It would seem we are in this together," reads, and it ends with "keep in close touch and we'll play some more soon." The email is being cited tonight by her family, who Ms. Giuffre died by suicide earlier this year, as part of their argument that what the Prince did today was not enough.
What he did was relinquish the use of his royal titles, including Duke of York. Quoting now from his statement, "In discussion with the King, and my immediate and wider family, we've concluded the continued accusations about me distract from the work of His Majesty and the Royal Family."
This hit as the House Oversight Committee releases the transcript of its interview with Alex Acosta, the U.S. attorney who brokered Epstein's 2008 plea deal, which let him avoid a federal trial. It's also happening just days before Virginia Giuffre's posthumous memoirs are published.
Joining me now is CNN's Max Foster outside Buckingham Palace and Investigative Reporter Sarah Fitzpatrick. So Max, is it clear if Prince Andrew made this decision on his own or was he pressured to do so?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: I think he was pressured to do so. These -- there were discussions in the family led by the King, but I know that Prince William was also involved in that. And the King was glad with the outcome. So we can see where this was going.
You aren't anything in the royal family without status. Prince Andrew didn't have much left after all the allegations going back a decade. Now he's had all of them taken away. He does keep the prince title because he was born with that, but all the other titles that he earned along the way have been taken away effectively. He's been told he can't use them.
So this is him being banished from the monarchy completely. I think there's a sense in the family that essentially this scandal, these -- all these allegations, are just not going to go away. Drip, drip, drip. The email that you mentioned there, which was mentioned in the British newspapers, I think was quite central here.
The photo of him in Central Park was used in a BBC interview. He said he lost all contact with Jeffrey Epstein then. We then find out that a couple of years later he's writing this email. So there's inconsistency to his story. It's damaging the monarchy, and he's been sent out. He's not even, Anderson, being invited to Christmas this year.
COOPER: Sarah, what's your reaction to the move by Prince Andrew and what message do you think it sends?
SARAH FITZPATRICK, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I think it's an important move, Anderson, although I think it's also too little too late. You know, it's very interesting that Prince Andrew, he's always maintained his innocence, although he has never really been able to answer any questions with any degree of specificity.
And I think it's really telling that the Southern District of New York had an ongoing investigation in which they sought Prince Andrew to come to New York for an interview. And they were very clear, going so far as to say that there was zero cooperation. They even requested a -- help from the State Department to compel the prince to come to the United States to help with the investigation, and he refused to do so.
So I think it is -- this is something that he has never, ever been able to answer any substantial questions about. And I think, you know, to the other correspondent's point, the story is not going away anytime soon.
COOPER: Max, I mean, is this mostly symbolic? I mean, OK, he can't attend Christmas at -- wherever they attend Christmas these days, but are there other practical consequences? I mean, does he lose money from -- I don't know, if having some of these titles, if he's, you know, has a duchy somewhere, does he get some sort of income from that?
FOSTER: The income is a bit of a mystery. He does keep his house. He's got a huge mansion on the Windsor estate, so there's frustration about that. There's also frustration amongst many of his critics that he's actually keeping all those titles.
They don't go away. He's just going to not use them. And for him to use the prince title, I know that Virginia Giuffre siblings have an issue with that. That should go as well.
Nothing actually has been taken away from him here, but he's lost all status. So he's lost everything that he feels he's earned over the years. He doesn't have any role anymore, and he's going to be completely taken out of all the private events as well.
So, for someone in the monarchy, it's a huge punishment. It is symbolic, but it's a brand. It is all about symbolism.
COOPER: And, Sarah, we mentioned the release of the Alex Acosta interview transcript. He was the U.S. attorney who signed off in that lenient plea deal. What did you make of him testifying that the Epstein prosecution was a crapshoot?
FITZPATRICK: Anderson, I found that very surprising because I've spent a lot of time reporting around that investigation from its initial start with the Palm Beach police all the way up through the FBI. And it just doesn't quite square with what we've heard from other people that were involved in this investigation who felt -- even members of the FBI, who felt it was a slam dunk and that it would go -- he would go away for life.
[20:40:01]
So it's incredible, given everything that we know, that he still believes that a case that had so much evidence, hundreds of victims couldn't stand up at trial.
COOPER: Yes. Sarah Fitzpatrick, Max Foster, thanks so much.
Up next, Meta launches some new safety features on Instagram for teen accounts, but will they actually help protect kids? Tech journalist Kara Swisher joins us for that.
And later, how the Trump administration moves to cancel billions of dollars in foreign aid, and how it's been hurting those desperate for health care and food. We'll get a firsthand account next.
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[20:45:10]
COOPER: Instagram parent company Meta says that teens will no longer be able to access the platform's AI character chatbots. That's just one of the new safety features the social media company is rolling out, including aligning settings for its teen accounts with the guidelines for PG-13 movies.
Now, certain content will no longer be promoted, and in some cases will be hidden entirely from those accounts. The move comes after parents and lawmakers have criticized the tech industry more broadly about the potential mental health impacts of artificial intelligence.
I spoke just before airtime with tech journalist Kara Swisher, host of The One podcast and co-host of The Pivot podcast. She's also author of "Burn Book: A Tech Love Story."
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COOPER: So, Kara, do you think -- I mean, these new parental controls from Meta, whether it's turning off chats with AI characters on Instagram for teens or aligning the safety settings for Instagram accounts for teens with PG-13 movies, do you think it's going to do anything, really, to protect kids or do enough? SWISHER: I think the question you'd be asking is why didn't they do it in the first place? Why is this -- it's always in reaction to something. In this case, it was a report that came out about safety features not working, right, and -- which they decried, but then turned around and introduced these things.
And so, you know, this is always the story with Facebook or Meta. They always, you know, you're -- they're always cleaning up afterwards. And when it comes to characters like this or AI bots -- as you know, I interviewed lots of these parents whose kids have died after interacting with them. I personally don't think kids under maybe 16, maybe 18 should be able to use these, should avail themselves to any of social media, but particularly character AI bots.
COOPER: I mean, Instagram already makes a lot of kids feel pretty crappy about themselves with --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- not getting enough likes or, you know, seeing other people's best lives, which are not really real representations of their lives, but it makes them feel their -- bad about their own lives. The idea now that there are -- I hadn't realized that there are AI characters that kids can see on Instagram, like the idea that Instagram needs to be more personalized to reach out and grab an individual kid and make them connect to it seems -- is it really necessary?
SWISHER: Ridiculous. Yes, you know, again, I've interviewed these parents, these AI bots, really, these kids got involved. And let me be clear, there's nobody there there. And one of the problems is they didn't report self-harm discussions, and in one case, even sort of helped the kid figure out how to tie a noose, you know.
Because you can trick them very easily, but the fact of the matter is kids' cerebral cortexes are not in place at this point. And so it's really -- I don't understand quite why they need to be on these platforms at all, because they're shown to be so problematic, like, you know, we don't let kids smoke cigarettes.
I mean, Scott Galloway and I talk about this all the time, we don't let them drink. And of course they sneak it, but that doesn't mean society can't as a whole say this is not something we think is for kids.
COOPER: It's interesting because clearly not much forethought was given, or I assume -- I'm assuming not much forethought was given in the early days of social media about --
SWISHER: No.
COOPER: -- the possible negative effects. Now there's, you know, this race in an AI arms race, and is much thought being given from a lot of -- from most of these companies, to like, OK, we can make this, should we make this? SWISHER: You know, they're not going in the direction of making these sites easier and better for people, they're going in the direction of anything goes. You just saw OpenAI's doing erotica, sure, I mean, I think it's fine if adults want to do that.
But when it comes to kids, we really have to be much more strict with these companies. And if they're not going to do it themselves, because they can't really self-govern, it's not in their shareholder interest, the government should absolutely get involved.
COOPER: I want to turn to some of the blowback that the CEO of Salesforce, Marc Benioff, has gotten for suggesting the Trump administration should send the National Guard into San Francisco. He apologized --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- earlier today, walked them back. You've been talking about this. What's your reaction?
SWISHER: Well, you know, I know him really well, and this was very disappointing, and incredibly -- I -- what's the word? Boneheaded. You know, he has this thing called Dreamforce, it sort of takes over downtown San Francisco, and he gets real funny. Always threatens to leave if the city isn't safe enough for him.
He's been very generous to the city of San Francisco especially --
COOPER: He's given a lot of money to San Francisco.
SWISHER: Yes, but that doesn't -- as Laurene Powell Jobs wrote today in the Wall Street Journal, it doesn't give you license to control everything. That you, in fact, should give things and then step out of the picture, like Mackenzie Bezos and Laurene Powell Jobs does.
And so, he was sort of, you know, worried -- in his apology, he just apologized sort of, kind of -- I'm not really clear if it's an apology, but that he was just worried about an extreme caution for Dreamforce. But why -- if you have extreme caution for Dreamforce, don't you just hire more security, not call in the National Guard, or prompt President Trump to do so, as he was already threatening.
[20:50:14]
You know, he really -- and he also effusively complimented Trump. This was a big Democrat. And, you know, he's just -- he's like stamping his feet and didn't get what he wants, and so he, you know, and he really wants to be at the big boys table with -- that table they had with the tech executives.
COOPER: You think he wants --
SWISHER: And I (INAUDIBLE) right now.
COOPER: You think he wants to get at those tables? SWISHER: Sure does. It's -- there's a real race on, speaking of AI, to get in -- to get all the juicy bits, and to be right in the forefront, and Trump is, you know, Trump's playing it like a casino. You can come in, you can't come in.
COOPER: Yes. Kara Swisher, I look forward to seeing you on the road with Scott Galloway. It's going to be mayhem.
SWISHER: Thank you. We're excited. Are you coming? Are you coming?
COOPER: Are you doing, like, cities across the country?
SWISHER: We're doing seven cities, and Anderson, we're almost sold out, so you better, you know.
COOPER: Awesome. Awesome.
SWISHER: Belly up to the bar. We'll let you in. We'll let you in.
COOPER: All right. Well, thank you.
SWISHER: You have to do a little dance for us, but otherwise, you can come.
COOPER: Well, legendarily, that's not pretty for me.
Kara Swisher, thanks so much.
SWISHER: I saw. I saw that. Thanks.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Well, I'm going on the road with Andy Cohen, so maybe I'll meet her out on the road.
Up next, firsthand reporting on the life and death consequences of the administration's decision to cut billions of dollars in foreign aid. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: Tonight we're looking at how the Trump administration moves to cancel billions of dollars in foreign aid are affecting people's lives. The agency that distributed much of America's foreign aid, USAID, was dismantled by Elon Musk in the DOGE cuts. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has repeatedly said that no one has died because USAID was shut down.
My next guest is New York Times Global Health Reporter Stephanie Nolen. She recently traveled to Somalia and witnessed the impact of the aid cuts firsthand.
Stephanie, I appreciate you being with us. I want to show you some -- show our viewers some of the images taken by photographer Brian Otieno. I believe this is in Baidoa, Somalia. Can you walk us through what you saw there?
STEPHANIE NOLEN, GLOBAL HEALTH REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes. Brian and I traveled to Baidoa in the south of Somalia, which is a region of the country that's been hit incredibly hard by years of persistent drought fueled by climate change. There are hundreds of thousands of displaced people. They're packed in around the town.
And until earlier this year, they were almost entirely reliant on health and food, essentially, especially for small children, that came through USAID. And when that assistance was cut, they lost access to primary health care. They lost access to kind of the people who were out in the community trying to find kids before they got really sick.
And as a consequence, Brian and I visited these sort of emergency feeding centers, which aid agencies have chosen to prioritize as the last line of defense and keep open. But they were, you know, where, you know, it's not like there weren't malnourished kids or sick kids in Somalia before. But now there's just so many, and they're coming in much, much sicker and much, much thinner.
And we met a lot of pregnant women who were just incredibly thin and who had small children who were acutely malnourished. And the health workers I spoke to said it just wasn't like this six months ago.
COOPER: It's -- 30 years ago, I was actually in Baidoa. It was the first time I saw a child die from starvation. And I watched his parents pour water over his body in order to clean him for burial in a pit.
In your reporting, you talk about a woman who was in the late stage of labor and went to a hospital only to find that it had been closed. Tell us, I mean, what happened. What was her experience?
NOLEN: Yes. So this was a hospital that, again, was entirely reliant on U.S. funds and lost that money in July, closed its doors, fired its workers, and some people in town heard about it, but people who lived further outside the town didn't. And so you had women showing up at the door, expecting to have a safe place to deliver, and learning that the hospital was closed.
And most women managed to go somewhere else, but this woman, Khadijah Ali (ph), didn't, and was pounding on the door. Her aunt described to me how they were pounding and pounding. And she started to deliver her baby right there in front of these locked doors.
And the neighbors heard the commotion and came out and carried her quickly into the house, and she finished delivering the child safely, a little girl, in their house. But when the staff of that hospital heard about this, they kind of talked it over and made a collective decision, and they came back and they went back to work.
And they've been working since July without salaries and without an infusion of money for supplies because the local health ministry just has no money. But they said they're going to keep the hospital open as long as they can.
COOPER: What are aid groups trying to do to keep working in Somalia?
NOLEN: You know, I think it's really tough. The U.S. has dramatically, by orders of magnitude, lowered the amount of money that they're giving to Somalia. And it's not just America. All of the other major donors have also said that they can no longer afford to spend money on foreign aid in the same way they're spending money on defense now.
And, you know, there are some countries -- I've been chronicling this story all year long since these cuts started, and there are countries that have, you know, shuffled resources around, looked for new partnerships, looked for private investment in ways of trying to make up their health care budgets.
But when you look at Somalia --
COOPER: Yes.
NOLEN: -- this is a country whose total budget last year was $350 million. They just can't do it themselves.
COOPER: Yes. Stephanie Nolen, so important reporting. I really appreciate you going there, as well as those remarkable images from your photographer. Thank you.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
