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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Ballroom Blitz; Trump Defends East Wing Demolition, Ballroom Cost Rises to $300M; Easy Money? Trump Defends East Wing Demolition, Ballroom Cost Rises to $300 Million; Federal Government Shutdown More Than Three Weeks Old, Trump Says at Some Point Common Sense Will Prevail; U.S. Strikes Eighth Alleged Drug Boat, First in Pacific Ocean; Trump Defends Boat Strikes, Says We Have Legal Authority; Ecuador Says It Has No Evidence to Arrest the Survivor of the U.S. Attack on a Suspected Drug Vessel; Deadly Russian Air Strikes Hit Ukraine as Trump-Putin Summit Shelved; U.S. Sanctions Russia's Two Largest Oil Companies; Source Says Federal Agents Slated to Arrive in San Francisco Area; Federal Judge Extends Order Blocking National Guard From Chicago; DHS Says Nine Arrested in ICE Raid on NYC's Canal Street. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 22, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: ... men especially young men who are often drawn to podcasts. And Erin, nobody does that better than Joe Rogan. His interview with then candidate Trump last year got 60 million views on YouTube alone.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Wow. That is pretty incredible. That was all just fascinating and entertaining, both to watch. Thanks so much, Elex.
And Elex's new show debuts very soon here at CNN, he'll be on from midnight to 2:00 A.M. Eastern but that is 9:00 to 11:00 P.M. Pacific and we're going to hear a lot from the governor of California there. Thanks so much for joining us.
In the meantime, AC360 starts now.
[20:00:40]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the East Wing of the White House will reportedly be completely torn down by this weekend. President Trump originally said the construction won't interfere with the current building. We're keeping them honest.
Plus, the President seeking nearly a quarter billion dollars he says he's owed by the Justice Department for the cases against him and is claiming he'd give that money to charity. How that promise squares with his murky record of giving.
And later, two people, incredibly, survived this strike by the U.S. Military and what they described as narcoterrorists. Our David Culver traveled to Colombia to meet the family of one of the survivors.
Good evening, tonight, we have a front row seat to history or more accurately, the destruction of it. The East Wing of the White House is being torn down. Not modernized, not renovated, torn down, the whole thing and we've been watching it happen all day long.
This video is from about half an hour ago, you could still see part of the building standing, but now that structure on the right, just to the right of that light, that structure has been leveled.
I want to show you a live picture right now, it's harder to see what anything they're doing. They may have stopped for the night, but the building -- parts of the building that were standing a half hour ago are gone. We'll put the image of what we've been witnessing today. And earlier tonight, on the bottom right half of your screen and on the top right.
Even if you've been following the White House ballroom saga since the announcement in July, it is hard not to be taken aback by what we are witnessing. If you think, well, that can't possibly be happening, it is. And the President confirmed that the entire East Wing is being demolished late today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We determined that after really a tremendous amount of study with some of the best architects in the world, we determined that really knocking it down, trying to use a little section, you know, the East Wing was not much. It was not much left from the original.
It was a very small building and rather than allowing that to hurt a very expensive, beautiful building that frankly, they've been after for years --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, holding up renders and floor plans which he brought with him and with the Secretary General of NATO by his side. The President added, "This was something they've wanted for at least 150 years."
He did not say who they were or why this was 150 years in the making, but this is what he's building on, what was the home of the offices of the First Lady, and the spot where millions of people from around the country and the world have begun their White House tours.
As former Republican strategist and White House aide, Rick Wilson, admittedly, no fan of the President put it today, the Wing became a geography of grace notes. The East Garden that would later be coaxed into elegance by Jacqueline Kennedy. The corridor where photographs line up like a roll call of American life. The rooms that belong to prior First Lady staffs the keepers of continuity, the stewards of tone and memory.
While, tone and memory have been trumped by gaudy gold, and the construction of a 90,000 square foot mega structure nearly twice the size of the Central Mansion of the White House. It will dwarf the size of the main part of The White House, which it is right next to. Today, the President insisted that no one should be surprised (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Your response to people who say that you haven't been transparent enough about this?
TRUMP: I haven't been transparent?
REPORTER: Yes.
TRUMP: Really? I've shown this to everybody that would listen. Third rate reporters didn't see it because they didn't look. You're a third rate reporter, always have been.
So, third rate reporters didn't look. But anybody that asked, these pictures have been in newspapers. They've been all over the place and, you know, we're very proud of it. It's gotten great reviews. It's gotten really great reviews. I think we've been more transparent than anybody has ever been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Unclear who's been giving it great reviews, but I bet its people he's showing the plans to who want or need something from him. As for transparency, keeping them honest, that is debatable. Here's the President talking back in July about the degree of demolition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It won't interfere with the current building. It won't be. It will be near it but not touching it and pays total respect to the existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Respect to the existing building, unclear if he means the one he's tearing down. If so, not sure how tearing the building down shows it or its history respect. If he means it pays respects to the main White House building, it will loom over it. His Press Secretary was asked about the demolition back in July, and if the whole East Wing would be torn down. She said, it was being modernized.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How much of the East Wing will be torn down? The entire East Wing or just parts of it?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, the East Wing is going to be modernized. The necessary construction will take place, and for those who are housed in the East Wing, including the office of the First Lady, the White House military office, the White House visitors offices, those offices will be temporarily relocated while the East Wing is being modernized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:36] COOPER: So, she's talking about modernizing and necessary construction. The White House press release from "The Times" is also, not surprisingly, unclear. It reads: The site of the new ballroom will be where the small heavily changed and reconstructed East Wing currently sits. The East Wing was constructed in 1902 and has been renovated and changed many times, with the second story added in 1942, which suggests some kind of addition or renovation to the East Wing, but also hints at its replacement.
The other question tonight is can the President or any president actually do this?
Well, the National Trust for Historic Preservation has weighed in with a letter urging that the administration and the National Park Service pause demolition until these ballroom plans go through what it says are the legally required public review processes, including consultation and review by the National Capital Planning Commission and the Commission of Fine Arts.
The problem is the letter was sent yesterday. Demolition already well underway and the destruction already extensive. And it seems they have no actual power. It appears there may be no law to stop it. Only, as with so many things over the first and now second, Trump administrations customs and norms and basic respect and decency for American history and the history of The White House, or even a modicum of reverence for the place that Presidents of all political stripes over the years have shared.
For instance, as when The White House was almost completely gutted and rebuilt from the inside during the Harry Truman administration, or when the Rose Garden was planted and beautified by Jacqueline Kennedy. They could have done more, even changed things drastically but they didn't.
The President, by contrast, has paved over the Rose Garden, studded it with yellow umbrellas and dubbed it in official press statement says The Rose Garden Club. No official entrance fee required to that club that we know about, but he did use it last week to host corporate donors who are paying, he says, along with himself for the new ballroom.
And talking about it recently, he suggested there's no limit to what he can change if he can swing the financing and presumably the wrecking ball.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They said, sir, you can start tonight. I said, what are you talking about? You have zero zoning conditions. You're the President, I said, you've got to be kidding. You mean I can actually do something that I really want?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that is where things stand tonight. I want to check in with CNN's chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source" Kaitlan Collins. So, I mean, is The White House concerned at all about how this is playing with the public?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Not right now, Anderson, from what we've heard, I don't think they expected it to get nearly the amount of coverage that they are. And I think to at least show that they do realize how sensitive this is and how this is going over. You saw that guidance from the Treasury Department yesterday urging staffers not to take pictures and share images of the construction.
Obviously, we've got cameras on it. You can see it because when you go to the White House and there are several surrounding buildings where you can get a pretty good vantage point to see the construction. I was walking out in the front lawn of The White House today on the North Lawn, which is where we do our live shots from, Anderson, and you can see the construction happening from there.
You can see the cranes and bulldozers in place, and you can hear it when you're in the Oval Office or when you're in the rose garden. And so, it's quite plain for everyone to see this. And one thing that the White House is pointing back to, Anderson, is that July memo, where it basically said that it is going to sit where the East Room does, this newly constructed ballroom. But I think one thing that The White House didn't really do is maybe emphasize that enough that it was going to be replacing the entire East Wing.
And so now, of course, these images are being shown of it ripping down the East Wing, demolishing it in total, in order to the ballroom there.
COOPER: And is there an explanation for why the cost for the project went up from a previously estimated $200 million to now $300 million? And is there any evidence that the President is actually helping pay for it?
COLLINS: Well, we just heard from sources that I had been talking to some people who, when they would go into The White House in recent weeks, that the President would have to basically flat tabletop models of what the ballroom was going to look like. One was one size and one was slightly larger than the other. And he would quiz people and ask them which one did they like better. And most people that I spoke to said that they said the latter, the larger one. This is the model that was inside the Oval Office today.
And so, I do believe it is larger than it was originally expected to be, the ballroom, from those measurements that we got back in July and that price tag back in July had been about $200 to $250 million. Today, the President himself said $300 million. And the one thing that he has emphasized, Anderson, is that it is going to be paid for with private donations, not by taxpayer money, but obviously, we'll see how that plays out who exactly the donors are, that are putting up so much money for this ballroom.
[20:10:13]
COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much. Joining me now is Presidential historian and Rice University History Professor Douglas Brinkley. Doug, I mean, when you see these images today that we saw of bulldozers ripping this down and doing it into the night, what did you think?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN HISTORY COMMENTATOR: Deeply depressing. I remember when Ronald Reagan famously said, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall in the Cold War. And here Donald Trump is ripping down the entire East Wing of our National Shrine, the White House, when he's moved the goalpost from month after month. Oh, it won't be touched -- it would be a little nook and cranny fixed here and there to these scenes of utter demolition and groups like The National Historic Trust, you know, for Preservation of Buildings, it's late, it's gone, it's decimated. And then the gall to tell people not to take pictures of the decimation, to me, it's deeply sad.
It's like, you know, cutting down an entire grove of the last redwood trees or, you know, destroying, parts of Yellowstone or something.
The White House stands for the United States and the people were cut out of Donald Trump's big footing here, to the point that his ballroom is going to be larger than the White House itself. And it's clear as you just played a clip, he could be going after the West Wing next.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, again, if you apply the Obama test to this, if Barack Obama had done this and went on with construction, you know, ripping it apart in the, you know, at nighttime, there would have been an understandable outcry. I mean, it's understandable. It wasn't as if there was a public discussion, even about, hey, this is our heritage. This is this is part of, you know, the incredible history of this incredible country. You know, we're proposing ripping it down. Here's the plan. Here's what it's going to be.
It's remarkable to me that, you know, yes, images were put out there and they're gaudy and over the top and large, but I don't think anyone knew it meant, you know, it wasn't just a modernization. It's a ripping down of the entire structure.
BRINKLEY: And it's also on top of what you said, misinformation coming from the White House that Theodore Roosevelt would have bulldozed down a side of it in 1902, or that, you know, Harry Truman did restoration. That's not restoration, that's demolition.
I mean, what more can you do? Put kegs of dynamite there and blow it up into the night sky. And it's all about President Trump's self- aggrandizement. It's connected to wanting to build this arc of triumph because he saw one in Paris. He wants gold because he saw it in the Kremlin with Putin.
How about caring about the American traditions? How about thinking about how intricate the building of The White House and the expansions have been, and the grace touches of a Rose Garden of Jackie Kennedy?
And incidentally, the East Wing is the women's part of the White House. This is like a slap in the face of women's history, what they're doing to that. It doesn't matter that Nancy Reagan was there. It doesn't matter that's where Barbara Bush's office is. It doesn't matter, there was Michelle Obama because it's a men only club to not only knock down the East Wing, but to put yellow umbrellas that looks like Panera and the great White House property, which is one of the true heirlooms of our country.
I find it a savage behavior that has gone on. That's not fixing or renovating. That's complete decimation.
COOPER: I mean, to see the before and after there. The Rose Garden it's extraordinary. The Rose Garden Club, I guess, as its being called now. Doug Brinkley, thank you.
Next, new developments in the wake of the President's claim the Justice Department owes him $230 million and has pledged to give the money to charity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's interesting because I'm the one that makes the decision, right? And, you know, that decision would have to go across my desk, and it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A Pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter, David Fahrenthold has spent a lot of time looking into the President's very murky record of charitable giving. He'll join us.
Also, Senator Bernie Sanders on his new book, "Fight Oligarchy" and what he thinks about what we're seeing tonight at The White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:15]
COOPER: When we left you last night, we just reported that the President of the United States was demanding nearly a quarter billion dollars from the Justice Department in connection with the Russia investigation and the classified documents' prosecution.
The one over boxes and boxes of documents stored in a ballroom, in bathroom there, $230 million in compensation for the American taxpayer to be signed off by one of these two top Justice Department officials, both of them handpicked by the President. Todd Blanche, his defense attorney in the documents case, and Stanley Woodward, Jr., who represented his codefendant.
Well today, reaction from a pair of Republican lawmakers, one whose livelihood depends on being in the President's good graces, the other who is retiring and see if you can tell which is which.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How comfortable are you with the President apparently seeking $230 million from the Department of Justice? REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I don't know the details about that. I just read it. I didn't talk with him about that. I know that he believes he's owed that reimbursement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's House Speaker Mike Johnson, who still needs the President's approval. And here's North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis, who's not running again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think it's terrible optics, particularly right now. We're talking about a quarter of a billion dollars transferring maybe to the President when we're in a shutdown posture.
So, it's at very best, bad timing. But I think it's horrible optics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:41]
COOPER: Well, notice that despite the criticism, he's still talking optics, not physics. Perception, not weather in fact, demanding hundreds of millions of dollars from American taxpayers on the say so of his own appointees is in any way either right or proper. Even the President himself seems surprised he's allowed to do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's interesting because I'm the one that makes the decision, right? And you know, that decision would have to go across my desk. And it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The President yesterday, he also said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: All I know is that they would owe me a lot of money, but I'm not looking for money. I'd give it to charity or something. I would give it to charity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: About such promises and more generally, the President in all things charity, he's certainly got some history. For starters, he once had one of his own, the Trump Foundation, or as New York attorney general put it in her 2018 civil case against the President. Eric and Don, Jr., "The foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments to not for profits from Mr. Trump or the Trump organization. Mr. Trump used charitable assets to pay off the legal obligations of entities he controlled to promote Trump hotels, to purchase personal items, and to support his Presidential election campaign." Now, among the items specified in that court document the purchase for $10,000.00 of a portrait of him to hang at his Doral Country Club in Florida. The foundation was later dissolved under the court supervision.
So, clearly having a charity has been legally problematic for him. What about giving to them? Well, here he is campaigning in the 2016 Republican primary at an event he billed as a fundraiser for veterans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We just cracked six million dollars, right, six million. And we have outside a list of the organizations and folks that are going to be getting this money. We're going to divide it up and they're going to get a lot of money. Everybody's going to get a lot of money.
Donald Trump, another great builder in New York now a politician. I can't stand this. A politician? I don't want to be called a politician. All talk, no action. I refuse to be called a politician. Donald Trump gave one million dollars, okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, that six-million dollar figure later turned out not to be true. Here's the headline, it's from our next guest, "New York Times" investigative reporter Daniel Fahrenthold, who won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on it for "The Washington Post".
As for the million-dollar donation that he touted the night of the fundraiser, he eventually paid it in a fashion, and only after four months of questions about it from Fahrenthold and others, as he writes at "The Times": "When asked Tuesday whether he had given the money this week only because reporters had been asking about it", Trump responded, "You know, you're a nasty guy. You're really a nasty guy. I gave out millions of dollars that I had no obligation to do".
Separately, David Fahrenthold writes, "In the 15 years prior to the veterans donation, Trump promised to donate earnings from a wide variety of his money making enterprises. "The Apprentice," Trump Vodka, Trump University, a book, another book, Fahrenthold writes, "If he had honored all those pledges, Trump's gifts to charity would have topped $8.5 million. But in the 15 years prior to the veterans gift, public records show that Trump donated about $2.8 million through a foundation set up to give his money away -- less than a third of the pledged amount and nothing since 2009."
Then there's this, in 2009, he agreed to rent his Seven Springs Estate in Westchester County, New York, to Libya's murderous dictator Muammar al-Gaddafi, who hoped to stay in a tent on the grounds during a meeting of the United Nations General Assembly.
The plans fell apart when local people objected. Colonel Gaddafi paid then citizen Trump $150,000.00, which he told us in 2011 he'd given to charity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) POPPY HARLOW, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: Do you still have the money that Gaddafi paid you?
TRUMP: You're not talking that kind of money. Do I still have it? What does that mean?
HARLOW: What happened to the money? Some celebrities have performed for Gaddafi have given that money away to charity or you've given it away? That's the question on people's minds.
TRUMP: Sure, I tremendous -- in fact, the other night, Comedy Central roasted me. They gave me a tremendous amount of money. It's already gone to charity. So, I give money to charity. I give that money to charity. And in fact, I said, when I did it, I'm going to take Gaddafi's money. I'm not going to make it easy on him, and I'm going to give the money to charity and that's exactly what I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: According to later reporting in "The New York Times", if he did, there's no evidence of it on his tax returns on which he reported just $22,796.00 in business and personal cash gifts. So, his record on actually giving what he says he gives or is giving is murky at best. He does, however, seem to have a soft spot for people accused of scamming charities.
Disgraced former Congressman George Santos, for instance, whose sentence he commuted last Friday, and who, among other things, allegedly built a homeless veteran out of thousands of dollars from a GoFundMe for the veteran's dying dog.
[20:25:24]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD OSTHOFF, VETERAN: I don't want you to ever hurt anybody like you hurt me again, George, and nobody else should ever have to go through that. I almost killed myself when that dog died. That's why I'm here. I don't want him to be able to do this again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is investigative reporter for "The New York Times", David Fahrenthold. We've mentioned earlier that he had done extensive reporting over the years on President Trump's charitable giving.
So, David, based on your reporting, what patterns have you noticed from President Trump in the past when it comes to his charitable giving, which he has talked about numerous times?
DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, with Trump, there's always been this weird contrast, on one hand, he says, I'm so rich, I've got so much money, I don't need any more. On the other hand, he's always asking for your money. He's always asking for people to buy things or to enroll in Trump University or in this case, for the government to give him money.
And so, to try to square that circle, he says, I give the money to charity. And it looks like I'm asking for money that I don't need, but I'm just, you know, you should know, you should be reassured, I'm giving the money to charity.
But as you said, when we looked at that and looked at those promises, we could find very little evidence that any of these really large promises to give away the proceeds of "The Apprentice" or the "Art of The Deal" that he ever really met, the promises he'd made.
COOPER: If the President ultimately gets the $230 million is the Department of Justice required to announce a settlement with the American public whose taxpayer dollars would be funding it, know about it?
FAHRENTHOLD: No, they're not required to announce it.
COOPER: Would the President have to or be obligated to disclose it if he donated that money to charity? And would he have to disclose the charity he chooses?
FAHRENTHOLD :Well, every year the President has to file a personal financial disclosure that reports sources of income. So, in theory, he would have to report the income that the money had come to him at some point, it would be months down the line. He would not have to report, however, that he gave it away or who he gave it away to. He could choose to, but there's no public mechanism that says he has to.
COOPER: And to your knowledge, I mean, he has said that he's paying for part of this building of the ballroom, as well as some corporate donors, would there be records of that?
FAHRENTHOLD: Not public records, certainly, the entity that's handling the charitable donations for this is a nonprofit here in Washington. It could choose to disclose them, Trump could choose to disclose them. But there's no mechanism to force a charity to publicly disclose its donors. So, if he did that, there'd be no way we'd be guaranteed to know.
COOPER: David Fahrenthold, thanks so appreciate it.
Up next, with the East Wing of the White House being torn down before our eyes, and that's what we were just showing. That's the view, right -- Actually, this was just earlier tonight. This was about half an hour before we went on air, there was part of a building still standing, that then was ripped down right before we went on air. Senator Bernie Sanders joins us live to talk about it.
President Trump also tonight on why a summit with Russia's leader about Ukraine is now off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We canceled the meeting with President Putin. It just, it didn't feel right to me. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:07]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST OF "ANDERSON COOPER 360": We're showing you video at the bottom right of your screen of the historic demolition of the White House East Wing, the entire thing. This was from earlier today. It's happening with the federal government shutdown about to enter Day 23 with no end in sight. Thousands of federal employees will not receive their regular paychecks on Friday. On Capitol Hill, both sides holding onto their positions.
Republicans demanding a yes vote to reopen the government and say discussions on healthcare subsidies can then get underway. Democrats still say no. They first want a plan in place to extend those subsidies. Tonight, President Trump says a deal can happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have a great support on the Republican side, so I think we need five Democrats and there are a lot of them that want to make a deal. So I think at some point -- at some point, common sense will prevail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Lots to talk about tonight with Vermont Senator, Bernie Sanders, his new book is "Fight Oligarchy." Senator Sanders, appreciate you being with us. We are going to show images on the screen of the East Wing being ripped apart from earlier today, torn down. What do you think when you see that?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) RANKING MEMBER, HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR & PENSIONS COMMITTEE: Well, I think the White House is an historic building. It goes way, way back. And I'm not impressed by the destruction of a significant part of it, to be honest with you.
COOPER: This, I mean, you've railed against American oligarchs. Your new book is "Fight the Oligarchy." This is for a ballroom being built, so the president of the United States can entertain world leaders and entertain -- it's being built, I guess, with --
SANDERS: Federal (ph) oligarchs. Look, what our book was about, Anderson, it is a very simple one and it's a reality that I hope the American people are prepared to deal with because it is not easy. It's easy to call Russia an oligarchy. Putin is one of the richest guys in the world and his friends, billionaires run Russia. But guess what's happening in America. Today, in our country, and this is what the book is about, we have more income and wealth inequality than we've ever had.
You got one guy, Mr. Musk, owning more wealth than the bottom 52 percent of American households. You got more concentration of ownership than we've ever had in the history of this country. You have billionaires controlling our corrupt political system. Billionaires putting huge amounts of money into both political parties.
[20:35:00]
Mr. Musk contributing $270 million to help elect Trump as president. You have more and more billionaire control over the media, mainstream media is -- I am sure you are well aware, Anderson. Mr. Ellison, who now owns Paramount and CBS, is in line to maybe buy CNN and we'll see, you know, one of Trump's allies now owns more and more of the media. And then in the midst of all that, you have 60 percent of our people living paycheck to paycheck.
The billionaires get richer. Working class people are struggling to put food on the table, to pay for health care, pay for education. That is what oligarchy is about. It is when a handful of incredibly wealthy people control the economy, control the media, control the politics of our country. And sad to say, that is where we are heading. And that is why we have got to fight back and why I was so excited on Saturday to see some seven million people come out on the streets and say, you know, "Mr. President, we don't want an authoritarian society. We don't want to live in an oligarchy. We want a democracy. We want a government that works for all of us, not just a few."
COOPER: When you say fight the oligarchy, what specifically? Obviously, the protest is part of it. What specifically do you want to see?
SANDERS: Good.
COOPER: Yeah. And also, when you see also, you know, what we have seen in Portland and Chicago, we saw -- there was some incident in New York just, I think it was yesterday or today. Do you see that as part of it? I mean, the huge --
SANDERS: Absolutely.
COOPER: -- increase in ICE and you Border Patrol?
SANDERS: absolutely. Look, it is not just that Trump is suing the media, suing law firms, going after universities and now, beginning the process of trying to put in jail his political opponents. You know, the attorney general of the state of New York, the former head of the FBI, threatening to indict a member of the United States Senate, a colleague of mine. And then, what you are seeing is masked men, ICE agents running around the country, throwing people without any due process into vans, taking them to God knows where, in some cases, believe it or not, to South Sudan.
When you see U.S. troops, in cities like Portland or Chicago, this is what authoritarianism is about. It is more and more power going into the hands of one man. And I will tell you something that, you know, throughout the history of this country, from the extraordinarily courageous people back in the 1770s who had the guts to put their lives on the line and died by the thousands, taking on the authoritarianism of the King of England, you know, and then writing a constitution calling for separation of powers and so many millions of American men and women fighting to defend democracy, the right of us to disagree with each other and not throw political opponents in jail, not become a two-bit dictatorship. So that is where we are right now.
And we need a political movement in this country to start taking on the oligarchy, to start electing candidates who are not worried about their campaign contributions from the billionaires, but are prepared to create an economy that works for all. You asked me specifically what we do. Well, right now, our health care system totally broken, everybody understands that. We need to do what every other major country on earth does, guarantee health care to all people as a human right.
Our housing system is broken all over the country. Go to any place, go to Vermont, go to New York City, go to any place, California. People cannot afford housing. Our kids may never be able to purchase their own home in the richest country in the history of the world. Our kids may well have a lower standard of living than their parents, while Mr. Musk and his billionaire friends get richer. So what do you do? We build 4 or 5 million units of low-income and affordable housing.
We have the best educational system in the world in the richest country, not a broken child care system. We got workers out there making $14, $15 an hour. People can't afford it. Our kids should not be 37th in the world in terms of reading and science and math. We should be the first in the world. College education should be free. Vocational schools should be free. And you know what? Maybe billionaires like Mr. Musk, who is worth $300 billion, $400 billion, maybe, just maybe, they should not be allowed to have that much money.
We should have a tax system which says that Mr. Musk and his friends actually should pay more. Right now, they are paying less than truck drivers and nurses in terms of effective tax rates.
[20:40:00]
So, maybe we have a progressive tax system which says to profitable corporations, the wealthy, they should start paying their fair share of taxes.
COOPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, it's always good to have you. The new book, "Fight Oligarchy" is out now. Thank you.
Up next, the Pentagon strikes another alleged drug smuggling boat which the president says he has the legal authority to do. While the family of a man who survived an earlier strike says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: President Trump says your brother is a terrorist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:12] COOPER: Tonight, President Trump insists his administration has the legal authority to use the military to strike boats in international waters that are allegedly carrying illegal drugs to the U.S. This comes after the Defense Secretary said the Pentagon launched the latest strike in the Eastern Pacific yesterday, killing both people on board. It's the eighth known strike since last month and the first in the Pacific. The previous targets were in the Caribbean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, (R) UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: There are people traveling on international waters, headed towards the United States with hostilities in mind, which includes flooding our country with dangerous deadly drugs. And they're going to be stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: U.S. officials say at least 34 people have been killed in total, but at least two survived a strike last week and the U.S. sent them back to their home countries. CNN's David Culver joins us tonight from Ecuador. So David, you spoke to family of a man who survived the U.S. strike in the Caribbean. The administration says he's a narco terrorist and returned him to Ecuador. What did his family say?
CULVER: So Anderson, he lives in a coastal village, a fishing town really, a couple hours from where we are. It's got a heavy gang influence. We traveled there. We met with his sister. She invited us into the home that she shared with her brother and showed us around a bit. We can show you some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[Foreign Language]
CULVER: This is all her brother, Andres' clothes. The mattress where he slept up until nearly a year ago. She says he was desperate for work, that he was concerned about providing for his six kids. And he said he needed to go to work. And like many in this small coastal town, he is a fisherman. The thing is, and this is what she found odd, he left behind all of his fishing gear. She says he is a good person and that was just trying to make ends meet.
President Trump says, your brother is a terrorist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. [Foreign Language]
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER (on camera): So the fact is, Anderson, he is a convicted criminal in the U.S. In 2020, he was convicted in relation to drug smuggling off the coast of Mexico. But, you got to take a step back here and you have to understand the context. Fishermen along the coast here in Ecuador are increasingly pulled into this. And we did a whole story documentary looking into the narco trafficking in this country. 70 percent, if not more, of the world's cocaine flows out of Ecuador, not into the Caribbean, into the Pacific. And so, a lot of the drug runners are based here in this country. Now, what pulls them into this? Well, it's a variety of factors. Some are very blunt, Anderson. They'll tell you it's about the money and there's a lot of money. They make anywhere from $30,000 to $60,000 a month. But the chances of coming back here alive are increasingly slim. And then you've got those who are coerced into this. They're threatened; they're under the grip of the gangs. And that is many of them, who say that if they refused, they would be killed, their families would be killed. So they simply have no choice.
COOPER: I get the reason the administration is releasing these videos. They're powerful to look at. In terms of actually stopping cartels from smuggling, large-scale smuggling, is there any sign it is having an effect other than killing low-level people who are driving these boats?
CULVER (on camera): I asked one of the drug smugglers if he's going to stop smuggling for a while, if he'll hold off, if this is doing anything to really dissuade him. He seemed unfazed. He said, nope, everything's going to continue as it is right now. And he said, in part because we've been dealing with risks our entire life and that this is just a reality of the situation here.
I think, when you talk to these folks, you realize that many of them feel like it is going to really impact a few folks who are leaving the coast and doing these drug runs. And others also say, if they weren't doing it here, the demand from the U.S., from Europe is still incredibly strong, others would fill that gap. And so I think, when you look at the fact that these are fishermen, these are very low- level individuals when it comes to how the cartel and gangs look at them. They're not even full-fledged members, but they're seen as expendable.
And so, they'll be used in that way going forward for as long as the administration is going to continue these attacks. It doesn't seem like though these folks are going to step back in what they're doing for now.
COOPER: Oh, we'll see. David Culver, thanks so much. Russia launched a large-scale strike on Ukraine overnight causing power outages, setting homes ablaze, and killing at least six people. A kindergarten in Kharkiv was among the places hit. You're seeing a video of children being evacuated. A regional official says at least one person was killed in that city. President Trump was asked today about the ongoing conflict and the anticipated meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Budapest. Here's what he had to say in the Oval Office, seated next to the NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We canceled the meeting with President Putin. It just -- it didn't feel right to me. It didn't feel like we were going to get to the place we have to get. So I canceled it.
[20:50:00] But we'll do it in the future. In terms of honesty, the only thing I can say is every time I speak with Vladimir, I have good conversations and then, they don't go anywhere. They just don't go anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The president also explained the decision to place new sanctions today on Russia's two largest oil companies, saying he felt it was time, his words, to increase economic pressure as the war in Ukraine continues. One thing he won't be doing to bring about an aunt to the war, sending Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine. The president defended his decision, citing their complex and "tremendous learning curve."
Up next, the acting ICE Director says today that New York City will see an increase in arrest by his agents. This comes after several arrests were made yesterday during a surprise operation along New York City's Canal Street, where counterfeit bags and other items are sold. What we know about this new focus in another Democratic-led city, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:32]
COOPER: More Breaking News tonight, a source tells CNN that the Trump administration is planning to send dozens of federal agents to the San Francisco area as early as tomorrow. And that'll include U.S. Custom and Border Protection officers. Meanwhile, a federal judge is extending her order blocking the deployment of National Guard troops to Chicago. That's expected to remain in place until there's a full trial on the issue or the Supreme Court weighs in. And take a look at this in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't even got badges, you all.
(LAUGH)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: This was the scene here in New York City yesterday on Canal Street, the reception that federal agents got when they suddenly appeared and arrested people, were often migrant vendors sell bootleg, counterfeit bags and other items. Today on Fox, the Acting ICE Director said, New York City will see a lot more of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD LYONS, ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: You will see us making those criminal arrests to make New York safe again. But I will tell you that it's definitely intelligence driven. It's not random. We're just not pulling people off the street. There's a specific reason based on criminal intelligence and criminal activity that we showed up on Canal Street. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And that's where CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is tonight. I assume -- or how are things tonight? And what more do you know about that raid on Canal Street yesterday?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know Anderson, we obviously know New York City very well. And you could even come out here now, at this hour, and you would normally see some of those individuals selling the counterfeit goods. I was walking around here tonight. I didn't see anyone out here tonight. Normally, these streets would be filled with some of the vendors, but you're not seeing any of them here tonight.
Certainly, getting the message, there was a lot of concern in this community and communities all across New York City after the way in which federal authorities came into this neighborhood yesterday, late in the afternoon. I mean, it was like a scene -- like you norm -- just unprecedented in the way they came out. Some of them carrying long guns, in tactical gear, and almost immediately there, began confrontations between people on the street who were just so shocked by what they were seeing.
And what the Department of Homeland Security has said is that, all across here, what they were looking for were these vendors that they were targeting specific individuals who have criminal histories, who are here illegally. And they wound up arresting nine individuals who are of West African descent and who they say were here illegally and they detained them. But in the middle of all that, Anderson, people who were completely innocent, had nothing to do with this were detained, including an individual who I heard on a video saying that he was an American citizen, that he was born in Brooklyn. He was briefly detained and then released.
But it's the images, it's seeing these individuals, these federal law enforcement officials come into this neighborhood in the way they did is what is so concerning for people. It's something that just does not happen here in New York City. Look, the fact is that here on Canal Street, the vendors have been an issue for quite some time, right? You've come to Canal Street for years, my whole life here. But this is something that normally local law enforcement deals with.
But instead, the federal government here decided they were going to take this into their own hands and use this as an excuse to try and get some of what -- these individuals off the street that they say we're here illegally.
COOPER: We saw the clip of the Acting ICE Director saying New York is going to start seeing an increase in arrest. Did the New York City Police Department actually participate with the federal agents? Because they obviously know the streets --
PROKUPECZ: No.
COOPER: -- I assume, better than probably a lot of these federal agents. PROKUPECZ: Yeah, and that's the thing here, Anderson. First, no, the NYPD came out and said they did not participate in this. They are not allowed to participate with federal law enforcement in immigration actions. And that's what this was. This was an -- ultimately, this was an immigration action. We know that ICE says that they're going to continue activity here, but the NYPD says that they are not participating in this.
And like you said, the problem with all of this is that these federal law enforcement officials are not individuals who normally deal with people on the street, whether it's --
COOPER: Yeah.
PROKUPECZ: -- at the border, whether it's targeted kind of enforcement. That's not what's going on here. So it's a lot of -- there's a lot of concern, certainly.
COOPER: Yeah. Shimon Prokupecz, appreciate you being there. Thank you. The news continues --
