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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
New Release: Epstein Mentioned Trump Multiple Times in Private E-mails; Interview with Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ); Interview with Rep. Maxwell Frost (D-FL). House Votes to End Shutdown; Epstein Mentioned Trump Multiple Times in Private Emails; House Votes to End Shutdown, Next is Trump's Signature; Trump Says U.S. Workers Don't Have Certain Talents. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 12, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: ... states should be able to witness the spectacle tonight as you can see on the map there. And just to take a look at the scene in Iowa last night, I mean, it's just incredible to imagine, to look up and to see all the pulsations, the lighting, those lights even reaching Florida and Texas, a massive burst of charged particles launching from the sun, driving all of this, a magnificent and extraordinary moment. Step outside, if you can, tonight and of course, be sure to look up.
Thanks for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:31]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, after 43 days, the longest shutdown in U.S. history is about to be history. We'll bring that to you live.
And later, new e-mails by Jeffrey Epstein about President Trump have been released. What they do and don't say about their onetime friendship.
Also tonight, the House is one step closer to voting to release all of the FBI's Epstein files. The newest Democratic congresswoman whose signature made that step possible, joins me tonight.
Good evening thanks for joining us. The release of e-mails today, written by Jeffrey Epstein and his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, which mentioned President Trump has once again made the Epstein saga topic number one in our nation's capital. The e-mails released by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee they say raise serious questions "about Donald Trump and his knowledge of Epstein's horrific crimes".
We'll let you decide. The first, I want to read to you is from Jeffrey Epstein to Ghislaine Maxwell, dated April 2nd, 2011, Epstein writes: I want you to realize that, that dog that hasn't barked is Trump, victim, whose name has been redacted, spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned. Police chief, et cetera, I'm 75 percent there." Maxwell responds, "I've been thinking about that." Now, there's some context that's important to mention. First, since the e-mail was released, GOP members of the House Oversight Committee have identified the unnamed victim. They say it was Virginia Giuffre, one of Epstein's most prominent survivors, who died by suicide in April. Republicans accused Democrats of hiding her name when they released this e-mail because she never alleged that Trump did anything wrong.
Giuffre once worked at Mar-a-Lago and wrote warmly about the President in her memoir, saying Trump couldn't have been friendlier.
Now, the second point I want to mention is that in the e-mail, Epstein says Trump spent hours at Epstein's house with the victim. In late July, Ghislaine Maxwell, who was incarcerated at a low security prison in Florida at the time, spent two days being interviewed by Todd Blanch, the Deputy Attorney General and former personal lawyer for President Trump and here's part of what she said then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GHISLAINE MAXWELL, BRITISH FORMER SOCIALITE AND CONVICTED CHILD SEX OFFENDER: I think they were friendly, like people are in social settings, I don't think they were close friends or I certainly never witnessed the President in any of -- I don't recall ever seeing him in his house for instance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I don't recall ever seeing him in his house, she says. Now, one week after meeting with Blanche, Maxwell was transferred, as you probably know, to this minimum security prison in Texas, an unusual move afforded a convicted sex offender.
Here's another e-mail between Jeffrey Epstein and author Michael Wolff, dated December 15th, 2015, the day of a CNN Republican primary debate. Wolff writes: I hear CNN planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you, either on air or in scrum afterwards. Epstein responds, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? Wolff responds in part, I think you should let him hang himself if he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable P.R. and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt.
Now, according to the transcript of the debate, Trump was never asked about Epstein. I want to read one more e-mail, this one to Michael Wolff from Epstein. Its dated January 31st, 2019, about six months before Epstein was charged with sex trafficking of minors. Victim whose name is redacted, Mar-a-Lago something else redacted, Epstein goes on to say, Trump said he asked me to resign. Never a member ever, of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop.
Now, that last part regarding knowing about the girls is seemingly a reference to Trump's claim that he kicked Epstein out of his club, Mar-a-Lago, for hiring away young women who worked there. I want to point out that President Trump has always denied any wrongdoing and has never been charged with a crime in relation to Jeffrey Epstein.
On social media, he posted, "The Democrats are using the Jeffrey Epstein hoax to try and deflect from their massive failures, in particular, their most recent one, the shutdown."
White House Press Secretary, Karoline Leavitt, was asked about the e- mails today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: These e-mails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has always said is that he was from Palm Beach, and so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at mar a Mar-a-Lago until President Trump kicked him out. Because Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile and he was a creep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:01]
COOPER: Well, the release of the e-mails comes as Democrats and many Republicans on Capitol Hill are pushing for all of the Justice Department Epstein files to be released and a long awaited step towards that happened late today.
Democratic Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva was sworn in today. She'll join me in just a moment. Her swearing in, as you probably know, was delayed for the last 50 days by House Speaker Mike Johnson. Finally, she was sworn in late this afternoon. As her first official act, she signed a Discharge Petition which will force a floor vote on legislation to mandate the release of Epstein files. Grijalva was the 218th and final vote needed to move that petition forward.
Now, that effort in the House led the Trump administration to convene top officials in the situation room earlier today, before Grijalva was sworn in. One source said the meeting was to include Attorney General Pam Bondi, who you can see there leaving the White House today. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch and FBI Director Kash Patel.
Also, summoned the situation room, Republican Congresswoman and Trump ally, Lauren Boebert, a signatory of the Discharge Petition. According to "The New York Times" and others, top officials tried and failed to convince Boebert to remove her signature. The President had also been playing phone tag with Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace earlier in the day, another signatory of the discharge petition, reportedly in an effort to get her to change her mind.
There are four Republicans who joined with Democrats to meet the required number of two signatories to push the discharge petition forward on the Epstein files. Now, until Congresswoman Grijalva signed her name late today, any previous signatories could remove theirs. Now, none of those did. The apparent concern from the Trump administration seems to stand in stark contrast to what the President and his top officials once said about releasing those Epstein files.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL CAMPOS-DUFFY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "FOX AND FRIENDS" WEEKEND: Would you declassify the Epstein files?
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes, I would. I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.
J.D. VANCE, VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list, that that is an important thing.
BENNY JOHNSON, "THE BENNY SHOW" HOST: Why is the FBI protecting the greatest terrorist, the largest scale terrorist in human history.
KASH PATEL, U.S. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: Simple because of who's on that list. Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think tomorrow, Jesse, a breaking news right now, you're going to see some Epstein information being released by my office. It's sitting on my desk right now to review. A truckload of evidence arrived. Its' now in the possession of the FBI. It's a new day. It's a new administration, and everything's going to come out to the public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And that didn't happen. She certainly changed her tune on that. Now, we mentioned that Democratic Congressman Adelita Grijalva was formally sworn in today, according to her press office, two Epstein survivors attended the ceremony.
The Arizona congresswoman provided the final signature needed for a discharge petition in the House that would compel that vote to release the files. I spoke to Congresswoman Grijalva for her first interview since being sworn in, along with Florida Democratic Congressman Maxwell Frost, who sits on the house oversight committee, just before air time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Congresswoman Grijalva, you had pledged even before you were sworn in to sign this Discharge Petition. To what extent did today's e-mail disclosures heighten your interest in seeing the DOJ turn over more documents?
REP. ADELITA GRIJALVA (D-AZ): Well, we really need to do that. I did have to change my speech a little bit once we had some more information coming out, because I think it's really important for the American people to get a glimpse as to why this administration is doing everything they can to prevent these files from getting out.
COOPER: Congressman Frost on the White House says the e-mails prove nothing and said the Democrats on your committee had selectively leaked them to, "create a fake narrative to smear President Trump". What do you say to that? Do you think they prove anything? REP. MAXWELL FROST (D-FL): The White House is in a full cover-up mode. They are doing everything they can to cover this up and cover up Donald Trump's either the fact that he's implicated or the fact that he knew about it and is trying to cover things up for his friends and other rich elites and billionaires and people like that.
What we know to be true is that when the initial birthday card came up for Donald Trump literally drew a woman, or what that looks like to me, a teenager sent it to Jeffrey Epstein saying they had a lot in common. The White House and the President came out and said it was fake. We know it wasn't fake, we got that directly from the Epstein estate. Now, these e-mails come up where he's implicated once again. And it doesn't just say he knew what was going on.
It says he spent hours, hours with one of the victims. And not just that, but Jeffrey Epstein was speaking about with Michael Wolff on how much leverage they have over Trump as well. So, this raises even more questions and the biggest one is why the President lie in the first place about what he knew about the sex trafficking ring and the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein.
COOPER: Congresswoman, do you think it actually proves anything, or do you think it just raises questions?
GRIJALVA: No, I think it proves that Trump knows a lot more than he's indicating that it's important for us to get to the bottom of this and for the American people to finally understand who is implicated and bring justice for the survivors.
COOPER: And, Congresswoman, we mentioned that two Epstein survivors attended your swearing in ceremony. Can you just talk about that, why that was important to you?
GRIJALVA: It was important because, you know, they've waited so long to be able to have a voice and opportunity put a face to the names and the stories. And so, I was just very appreciative to both of them for coming, for having the bravery to continue to tell their story and to remind people that there are real people behind these files.
[20:10:38]
COOPER: And, congressman, in terms of the discharge petition, even if the bill, which Speaker Johnson now says will come up for a vote next week if it passes the House on its merits, as you know, there's no guarantee well get a vote in the Senate and even if it passed in the Senate, which is as of now seems unlikely, the President would have to sign it into law in order for the DOJ to actually be forced to turn over anything. So is this more about symbolism and getting your colleagues on the record?
FROST: It's not about symbolism. It's about real results and it's about uncovering an issue that really has to do with something that we know to be true in this country, that you have rich elites for generations that play by a different set of rules, and that if you commit a crime, you're going to jail. If you commit a crime, you're paying restitution. But then you have people who are rich, who do not have accountability in this country. This is about justice for the survivors and it's also to make sure that this never happens again.
And so, we're going to focus on what's right in front of us getting this through the House. When it goes to the Senate we need everybody, whether you're Democrat or Republican, don't care about politics, anything to come together and say, this isn't about D versus R, this is about the people versus the problem, and this is about justice in this country. And we will all stand together as we tell the Senate to pass it.
And when it gets to the President's desk, we will all come together and tell the President, sign it. Sign it, because we need accountability, sign it because you're the one that promised transparency when you were on the campaign trail. And let's get it done. And so -- but first were going to focus on the House.
COOPER: And, Congressman Grijalva, what's the next step in trying to discern what is true, what's not? I mean, given that Epstein's dead, Virginia Giuffre, sadly, is Ghislaine Maxwell is angling for commutation from the President. Obviously, it's your first official day on the job, but is it clear to you, I mean, what the backup plan is, if the votes fail and all the files aren't released?
GRIJALVA: I think that the first thing we need to do is do one step at a time. We've signed the discharge petition now that has a 218 signature. Now, it's up to Speaker Johnson to bring it forward so the House can vote and then go from the next steps. There is so much conversation about, you know, whether were going to get the full files, whether we're going to get the full information. And really what we've heard very clearly from every person that we that has reached out throughout the nation is that we need accountability, and we want to know what this administration is covering up.
COOPER: Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva, I appreciate it on your first day and Congressman Maxwell Frost, thanks so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Well, up next, what we know about the relationship between President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein over the years, Mr. Trump has called him a creep and has insisted he was not a fan. But it wasn't always that way. And the fallout after the President said, we don't have talented people in this country in an interview on Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "THE INGRAHAM ANGLE": If you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.
TRUMP: I agree but you also do have to bring in talent.
INGRAHAM: But we have plenty of talented people.
TRUMP: No, you don't, no you don't.
INGRAHAM: We don't have talented people? TRUMP: No, you don't have certain talents and you have to -- people have to learn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:00]
COOPER: There's breaking news, the House of Representatives is voting to end the 43-day shutdown of the federal government, the longest in history. President Trump, promising to sign the bill at 9:45 Eastern tonight. And the government will reopen.
We'll go right to CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Where do things stand right now?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they are moments away from gaveling this vote closed and this bill is on track for passage right now. It has not reached the magic number yet of 218 votes. That's if all members are voted in present but there may be some absence here. There are two vacancies here in the Senate and the House. So, it's still -- that magic number has not been reached yet, but they are on track to get it. There are about 15 people who have not voted yet, and right now there are four yes votes on the Democratic side.
We had expected for crossovers and they are a handful of members. Some of them are more vulnerable members. Adam Gray of California is a freshman from a swing Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, another congresswoman who is from Washington state, also from a swing district. And also, Jared Golden, he's a retiring Maine Democrat, a moderate democrat from a Trump won district. He is also voting for this plan, breaking with his party. Don Davis, a North Carolina Democrat, someone who is in a swing district.
Those are the four Democrats who have crossed over to vote with Republicans on this bill to keep the government open. And there's right now, there are two Republican no votes. One of them is Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky. He has long been -- a very critical of spending legislation, and he has voted against these kind of bills in the past. So, that is no surprise there. But the interesting Greg Steube of Florida was one who just voted, no. So, we'll see if that vote holds. Any member can change his or her vote before the gavel closes. Sometimes they accidentally vote one way and then and change it back another way. So, we'll see if that vote holds.
But still, right now there are two Republican no votes, five Democratic yes votes. And those five Democratic yes votes, that is going to be more than enough.
Because remember, Mike Johnson can only afford to lose two Republican votes if it is a straight party line vote. That's the most he can lose along party lines, given the razor thin Republican majority. But right now, it's a 216 to 207. Your feed may be a little faster than mine. I believe it's 219 right now -- COOPER: Well, it's 220 right now.
RAJU: It's 219.
COOPER: It's 220, 221.
RAJU: It's 220 okay, okay yes. So, yeah, I'm using the House App called Dome Watch, which appears to be a little bit behind the feed that you're getting, Anderson, but --
COOPER: So, the total it has to get to is? What's the total it has to get to?
[20:20:40]
RAJU: Once it clears the threshold to 218 is the threshold here, Anderson, and it is clear, that threshold. So we are -- it is well on its way for passage. So, a significant moment. Six Democratic votes now on my feed. Maybe it's a little bit higher than you have a few seconds ahead of mine. But, you know, that is what's pushing this over the finish line. A couple of Republican defections. But Democrats swing district, Democrats breaking ranks here to end this government shutdown -- Anderson.
COOPER: So, what happens now, Manu? What's the next step?
RAJU: So, the President has said that he will sign this into law tonight. That is that that will happen at 9:45 P.M. Eastern. He said that he would sign this into law, and that is going to be obviously a big moment because that will end this 43-day government shutdown. Democrats initiated this fight because they were furious that these subsidies under the Affordable Care Act were expiring at the end of the year, and they wanted a process to extend those. And they said that this funding legislation must be tied to it.
They refused to give the votes in the Senate. They needed 60, in the Senate. That means they need eight Democrats to break ranks over there. Ultimately, after 40 days, a deal was cut. Then Senate Democrats, eight of them, voted to advance this bill with a commitment for a vote on health care not tied to this funding legislation, a commitment in the Senate, which will happen by the second week of December.
There is no commitment for a health care vote in the House, so expect a huge fight over health care in the weeks ahead of the next funding deadline, Anderson, when this gets signed into law, there will be there will be until January 30th, that will be the next funding deadline for most federal agencies and that will be -- and I can hear in my ear, Anderson, it sounds like they are gaveling this vote closed.
So, it is official and the crossovers, it looks like there are two Republicans who voted, no again, Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Greg Steube of Florida. The Democratic yes votes Jared Golden of Maine, Adam Gray of California, Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Washington State, Don Davis of North Carolina, Henry Cuellar of Texas, and Tom Suozzi, who's a New York Democrat as well.
So some of the more moderate, some of the more swingy district Democrats breaking ranks with their party leadership, which was fighting very hard, whipping their members to vote against it. But a handful of them broke ranks, joined with Republicans. And now, this bill is on set to passage and federal workers can probably begin to go back to work tomorrow -- Anderson.
COOPER: And for, you know, Democrats said they got an assurance from Senator Thune that there would be a vote. Why, for those breaking Democrats, was the idea there being an actual vote so important?
RAJU: Yes, for these Democrats who broke ranks, they made very clear, Anderson, that they believe that ultimately the pain of this government shutdown was too much, even though there was just a commitment for a vote and the health care, which no one expects here, will actually become law, given the divisions within the two parties on the issue, like health care, that those members who broke ranks said, look, we have seen this shutdown go on for way too long. The President is not going to agree to what we are negotiating or what we want. It is time to end this once and for all.
But there are so many Democrats who I have spoken to, Anderson, who are just furious at that position. They believe that those Democrats caved, they believe those Democrats gave in to The White House when they believed the President was in his weakest position following last Tuesday's elections and Democratic wins in some key states. And they said that they could have gotten a lot more when it comes to health care in particular, as people -- 22 million people or so who rely on those subsidies could see they're already seeing their premiums increase. And all of them are very, some of them say, absolutely gutted by the outcome of this.
But the Democratic divisions were on full display here and very clearly on this vote, six of them breaking ranks just like eight of them didn't in the Senate as well -- Anderson.
COOPER: Manu Raju, thank you.
Up next, once again, the breaking news, the House voting moments ago to end the 43-day shutdown of the federal government, the longest in history. And we'll have more on the Jeffrey Epstein saga as well. We'll be right back.
[20:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:29:11]
COOPER: Just moments ago, the House voted to end the longest shutdown in U.S. History. The President expected to sign the bill later tonight. Meanwhile, with Democrats under fire in the Senate for voting to end the shutdown today, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee released e-mails from late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein that mentioned President Trump by name multiple times. Now, it's important to note law enforcement authorities have never accused Mr. Trump of wrongdoing in relation to Epstein. We mentioned some of the e-mails between Epstein and writer Michael Wolff.
There are others, in one e-mail sent in January 2017 that's just been released just after the President's first inauguration, Epstein wrote to a "New York Times" reporter, Donald Trump is effing crazy. Months later, in December 2018, Epstein called President Trump borderline insane in an e-mail exchange with former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers. But their relationship was not always so strained. They were, in fact, once friends. Randi Kaye has more on their relationship over the years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy has been talked about for years. Are people still talking about this guy? This creep?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That was President Donald Trump in July this year, offering a very different opinion of Jeffrey Epstein than he once shared publicly. In 2002, long before he became president, Trump told New York Magazine, he'd known Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years and called him a terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side, Trump told the magazine.
Over the years, the two have been spotted many times in public together. This NBC video shows Trump and Epstein socializing in 1992 at a party at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate. The video released in 2019 shows Trump appearing to say to Epstein, look at her back there, she's hot. While Epstein smiles and nods. Former swimsuit model, Stacey Williams, who dated Epstein in 1993, told CNN in an interview, Trump was Epstein's wing man.
STACEY WILLIAMS, FORMER MODEL WHO DATES JEFFREY EPSTEIN: They were best friends. They were very close and they were up to no good.
KAYE: The two men flew together as well. These flight logs show Trump traveled on Epstein's jet four times in 1993, twice in 1994, and once in 1995, and in 1997. The logs were made public during Ghislaine Maxwell's 2021 trial where she was convicted of sex trafficking, among other things. Epstein also attended Trump's wedding to Marla Maples at New York's Plaza Hotel in 1993.
In 1997, Trump added this personal note to Epstein inside a copy of his book, "The Art of the Comeback." It reads, "To Jeff, you are the greatest," according to The New York Times. That same year, the two men were photographed together at Mar-a-Lago. This exclusive CNN video shows Epstein and Trump chatting in 1999 before a Victoria's Secret fashion show. Despite all of that, during a court deposition here in Palm Beach in 2010, Epstein refused to answer many questions about his association with Trump. And Trump has continued to try and distance himself from Epstein as recently as July. This was the story he told about kicking Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago.
TRUMP: He took people that work for me and I told him, don't do it anymore. And he did it, then I, said, stay the hell out of here.
KAYE (voice-over): More recently, Trump had to answer about a letter bearing his name found in a birthday book created by Ghislaine Maxwell for Epstein's 50th birthday. The letter, according to The Wall Street Journal, contained the outline of a naked woman and a message. "Happy birthday, and may every day be another wonderful secret." Trump denied authoring the letter and sued the journal for defamation.
TRUMP: That's not my signature and it's not the way I speak. And anybody that's covered me for a long time, know that's not my language.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I want to bring in two journalists who've been covering Epstein and his crimes for years. Miami Herald Investigative Reporter, Julie K. Brown, whose work exposed the extent of Epstein's alleged sex trafficking ring and led prosecutors to reopen the case. She's also the author of "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story" and an independent investigative journalist, Tara Palmeri, author of "The Red Letter" on Substack and Host of "The Tara Palmeri Show" podcast.
So Julie, did the release of these email answer any questions you've had or simply kind of raised new ones?
JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MIAMI HERALD: I think it mostly raised new ones. I think that there are a lot of indications here that Trump was friends with Epstein for more, or longer than what we initially believed. I think it also raises questions about why the Trump administration seems to be so bent on not looking at these Epstein files again, not at least investigating them. Given all the content in these emails, one would think the DOJ would want to look more into some of Epstein's activities, and who else may have assisted him with these crimes.
COOPER: Tara, how heavy do you think was the pressure on Trump allies to try to sink this discharge petition? We mentioned the meeting inside the White House Situation Room, of all places, with Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, trying to convince her according to the reporting, to pull her name off the measure, which she declined to do.
TARA PALMERI, INDEPENDENT POLITICAL JOURNALIST: Yeah, it was really intense. President Trump calling two House members, two female House members, one of which has a history of sexual assault and being a survivor of sexual assault, not once but many times. That being Nancy Mace, she's spoken openly about it. She's an advocate for women and he thought that it was a good idea to call these two members and try to get them to withdraw the signatures that they already placed on a discharge petition. But I do think that it shows that he's losing some of his political power within the party, and it has to make me think that it has -- may have something to do with perhaps the economic condition that we're in right now. Inflation sky-high, cost of living unpopularity, with his economic approval numbers going down, I mean, he doesn't seem to have the same sort of juice that he used to have.
[20:35:00]
And already, last night, I was talking to sources on the Hill, House GOP sources, and they were saying if this discharge petition is signed, we're going to have to vote to release these files. So at least a handful of Republicans that I spoke to, at least, will be voting to release these files. So I don't know how he's going to be able to stop this in a week from now.
COOPER: Yeah, I want to -- I do want to point out that both Congresswoman Mace and Boebert said that the president didn't directly ask them to remove their names. Julie, the chances of both Houses of Congress passing this bill to force the DOJ to turn over the Epstein case, I mean, they're slim at best, to say nothing of the near-zero chance that President Trump himself would actually sign such a measure into law. What expectations do survivors have about where this is all going? Because if this doesn't work, what else? What else is there?
BROWN: Well, there is the House Oversight Committee's investigation and they are making headway as the release of these emails and other documents today show. I mean, really we have learned more from the House Oversight Committee's investigation than we have from the administration. Because as you know, the administration has put sort of a lid on this case and has refused to release these files now for months, despite the fact that initially the president ran on transparency on this case.
So, we're learning more essentially from the House Oversight's effort at subpoenaing these documents from Epstein's Estate than we are from the DOJ and the FBI. And quite frankly, this is quite disheartening to the victims who they believe that our government -- this is them now saying this, that they believe that our government is covering up exactly who was involved and what happened in this case.
COOPER: Tara, it is remarkable to think of Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, and Kash Patel, now the FBI Director, I mean, Kash Patel who was on endless podcasts talking about releasing the files and the people in charge are hiding stuff. And now that he's actually in a position of responsibility, he's doing exactly what he was accusing other people of doing, whether that was true that they were actually doing it or not. It is remarkable to think of these -- all these people who went to town on this for a long time when they weren't in power to use it against Democrats, and now they are bearing the brunt of the attacks that they used to make on others.
PALMERI: Right. That was because it was a cabal of Democratic elites. But then, they forgot that the president was among that cabal of Democratic elites as a former Democrat himself, friend of Jeffrey Epstein at the time, was even signing checks, giving them to Chuck Schumer and donating to Hillary Clinton. At the time that President Trump was friends with Jeffrey Epstein, he was a Democrat. And I think they must have forgotten his history.
And yeah, they were the loudest voices on the right and it feels like it's almost been muted without them, out of fear of offending President Trump. And obviously, they are in the position right now to release the files. Now, like you said, I don't believe that President Trump will actually sign this bill if it does pass. It's a really difficult bill to vote on for all Republicans. It's going to be hard for them to go back to their constituents and try to explain why they didn't vote to release the Epstein files, why they voted against transparency.
And say for some reason President Trump does decide to sign the bill, I mean, the DOJ, has it ever been good at policing itself? They'll probably, if anything, hand over files that are completely redacted, like the ones we see right now when you go to the FBI's website and look at the Epstein files that exist right now.
COOPER: Yeah.
PALMERI: I just don't have a lot of trust that even if this is signed, that we will get down to the bottom of it. I believe whistleblowers, if we actually listen to the stories of the victims, if they feel safe and supported enough to come forward with their stories, we'll know more. And if judges start to rule to unredact their depositions, we'll know more about this case and hopefully, it'll come out. Even if it has to be drip, drip, drip, it's -- the stonewalling is making it worse.
COOPER: Yeah. Tara Palmeri, appreciate it. Julie K. Brown as well. Thank you so much. Just ahead, we'll have more on the Breaking News. The House voting to end the longest shutdown in American history, it's now headed to the desk of President Trump to sign tonight. Major MAGA blowback also, after President Trump tells a Fox host there aren't enough talented workers in America, so he needs to get foreign workers to come here. When the Fox interviewer pushed back, he doubled back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:43:58]
COOPER: Tonight, President Trump's getting blow back by some of his supporters after he said, America doesn't have enough highly skilled workers to fill certain jobs here. During an interview with Fox Host, Laura Ingraham, he defended the H-1B Visa program that permits skilled workers to live and get jobs here. She pushed back arguing those visas keep American paychecks down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX HOST: If you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Look, I agree but you also do have to bring in talent. When a country --
(CROSSTALK)
INGRAHAM: Oh, we have plenty of talented people here.
TRUMP: No, you don't. No, you don't.
INGRAHAM: We don't have talented people here?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, you don't. No, you don't.
INGRAHAM: We don't have talented people here?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You are being -- no, you don't have -- you don't have certain talents and you have to -- people have to learn. You can't just say a country is coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and going to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years, and they're going to start making missiles. It doesn't work that way.
INGRAHAM: Well --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, normally a Trump ally, shot back in a post on X, "I believe in the American people. I'm one of you. I believe you are a good, talented, creative, intelligent, hardworking, and want to achieve. I'm solidly against you being replaced by foreign labor like with H-1Bs."
[20:45:00]
Other supporters accused the president hating America, being out of touch with workers, appeasing special interests. I want to talk about it with David Urban, a former Trump Campaign Adviser, and Senior Political Commentator, Ana Navarro. So David, did the president's comment surprise you? Do you think they square with America First?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: So Anderson, look, what the president is stating is just is the fact of the employment situation in America. At the high end and the low end, we need workers. He earlier noted and made supporters angry when he was talking about, look, we're not going to deport all the farm workers, not going to deport all the people who work in the hospitality industry.
And now, he's talking about people at the high end of the employment chain, people in the H-1B category who are computer programmers or coders, or PhDs in Engineering. When they graduate from schools in America, they basically stamp -- give them a visa and say, stay here and work and help us out. It points to a failure in our educational system that we can't, right, produce enough of these folks because we don't have people who are STEM qualified, right?
Most of the people who get H-1B visas have special advanced technical skills, which require really hardcore STEM background. And so, until that point in time when our students, when our undergraduate institutions and when our high schools produce enough kids that can go and take these courses, we're going to need to import people if we want to be productive and competitive on the world stage. So, Donald Trump is just telling it as it is.
COOPER: And I mean, had a Joe Biden or a Barack Obama said that, it would obviously been heavily criticized by Republicans. Is he right to be criticized?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, this H-1B program started under George Herbert Walker Bush back in 1990, and it's worked fairly well. I do agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene -- Oh my God, I can't believe I just said those words -- in that he is doing the bidding of the special interests, because what he has done is put a $100,000 cost on H-1B visas. That means that the people that benefit are going to be those buddies of his that he invites to the White House.
The people like Tim Cook and Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates and Elon Musk, the big ones, because there's a lot of rural hospitals that benefit from bringing in doctors under H-1Bs. There is a lot of startup companies that benefit from bringing in workers under H-1B. Theoretically, it should not drive the cost of wages down because companies sponsor an employee to come under an H-1B. And theoretically, that company has to prove that they will pay the going wage for that.
But what's happened is that with the $100,000 cost and understand this, people need to understand this. There are -- there's a cap on H- 1Bs a year. It is 65,000, plus 20,000 for people with postgraduate degrees, so 85,000. But every year, this year, for example, 470,000 people applied for the 85,000 visas. Before, everybody was on even footing.
COOPER: Right.
NAVARRO: Now, the people that can pay the $100,000, so his buddies who pay for his ballroom, his buddies who show up at the White House, his buddies who were at the front row during the swearing-in, those guys can afford the $100,000. The rural hospital in Iowa is not going to be able to afford that.
COOPER: David, I mean, those who would agree with what the president's saying is also making the argument that if you want to win the AI battle or the AI war, if you believe there is one and there's a race to get the best AI before China does, or some nefarious actor out there does, you need very highly-talented, highly-trained people. URBAN: No, Anderson, I agree with that statement. I agree with you. Listen, I'm not doubting Marjorie Taylor Greene's statement. Look, they're -- American people are hardworking, they're smart, they're industrious. The problem is our institutions of learning are failing them in that we are not teaching enough kids STEM, right? You have to have -- to be a coder, to do program, to do any of these things, and Ana, to be a doctor, to be a physician, to be a scientist, you need to have strong math and science skills, which our schools are not preparing kids for.
So we have to import this talent if we want to be the leading country in the world. We don't want to be relegated to some second-tier, back- bench country. We need the smartest, the best, the brightest.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I always --
NAVARRO: David, do you agree with what I just said though, that by putting a $100,000 price tag on that visa, he is giving an advantage to the Googles and the Microsofts and the Metas and the Amazons, and putting the rural hospitals in a disadvantage.
URBAN: Well, Ana, I think this. I think that the president and this administration, what they're trying to do is make sure that these companies which are very wealthy companies, can help foot the bill and help defray some of the cost of this program and some other things.
NAVARRO: They're not paying taxes, David.
URBAN: They're paying taxes, Ana.
NAVARRO: He just gave them a tax break.
URBAN: They are paying taxes.
NAVARRO: What do you mean, give me a break? He gave them a tax break. You know that.
URBAN: They're paying -- they're paying taxes. Listen, I know it's crazy when you and MTG are agreeing, OK? So --
(LAUGH)
[20:50:00]
URBAN: Like, it's a cat and dog sleeping together.
COOPER: Well, let's leave it there -- on a moment of agreement between Ana Navarro and Marjorie Taylor Greene, we'll leave it there. Let that sit.
(LAUGH)
NAVARRO: I'm going to have to go to therapy after that one.
(LAUGH)
COOPER: David Urban, thanks very much. Ana Navarro as well. Next, more on our Breaking News, the vote in the House and the shutdown. The president's signature is next. And Senator John Fetterman, one of the eight in the Democratic Caucus in the Senate to back the bill. What he told me about his vote.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Again, the Breaking News. The end tonight to the longest shutdown in U.S. history, the president expected to sign the bill within the hour. Pennsylvania Democrat, John Fetterman is among the eight Senators who broke with their Caucus earlier this week to support the Republican spending plan, ending the longest shutdown. The Senator is also the author of a new book, "Unfettered," which details his mental health struggles and recovery from the stroke he suffered in 2022 while on the campaign trail. I spoke with Senator Fetterman earlier.
[20:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What do you think to the argument that Democrats should not have essentially caved in, in the opinion of many Democrats?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN, (D-PA): Well, respectfully, Anderson, I wouldn't say that we caved. I think it's just more enough Democrats realized that this has run its course, and we are going to plunge 42 million Americans two weeks before Thanksgiving, they lose their SNAP benefits. And I know people, the union head of the air traffic controllers, and it's the mass chaos. They're -- day by day, flying becomes less and less safe in our nation. And all the unions, I mean, it's a rule, whoever shuts our government down, the guarantee losers are Americans. And that's where we are. So that's not so much a cave. It's not a -- it's not really a game. It's really about real, real responsibility to keep our government open.
COOPER: So, to your constituents who may see their health care premiums go up under the Affordable Care Act, under Obamacare, what do you say?
FETTERMAN: What I would say is that I absolutely voted for it countless times, and I fully support those things. And now, we are going to have the opportunity to have that conversation next month. And now, people are going to realize, if you think shutting our government down is the right solution, we'll have that opportunity to do that in January. And I've encountered plenty of people, hey, I haven't been paid in five weeks. All the unions that have directly impacted by this shutdown, they've had to borrow almost $0.5 billion from their credit union just to pay their bills.
We're getting paid. We're not getting touched in the same directly way that so many people in Americans are being doing that. And now, thankfully, my family is not in SNAP, but my wife works closely with people that suffer from food insecurity. And now, it's absolutely appalling to me as a Democrat that, kind of people that I fight for, why I'm in this business is for people. Just like that screen, SNAP, SNAP as a member of the Ag Committee, but also someone that knows that food insecurity is real. And now, we are voting to create mass kinds of chaos for 42 million Americans.
COOPER: You've been remarkably open about your own mental health struggles in your book. You write about experiencing suicidal ideation after your debate against Dr. Oz in 2022. And you write, and I'm quoting, "According to my depression, I was an imposter, a fake, a fraud. I didn't deserve anything except loneliness and sadness and isolation." How much did those feelings complicate your ability to work? And what do you say to others out there who may be experiencing those same things?
FETTERMAN: Well, my message, and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to use your platform to talk about this, it is an important conversation to have. And I know millions of Americans struggle with depression. And now, the real danger about depression, about the quality of your life means, if it takes over, now you start to have a conversation with yourself and it will convince you that the right solution is to take yourself out. I mean, that's the danger. That's the real danger.
And now, here, after I won the biggest race in the country, that's when depression took over. And that's when I really start to figure out what's the way to taking myself out. And that's how dangerous that is. And I've had people in my life take their own life that they left young children and they left grandchildren for that. The tragedy here, my children saved my life and they -- I realized that that was my emergency break, that I have to stop this conversation with myself.
And I emerge today, and I count myself as the luckiest guy alive. And I'm just profoundly grateful. And now, I'm going to have this conversation as long as I have people willing to allow me to talk about this issue.
COOPER: All right. Well, Senator Fetterman, thank you for your time. The new book is called "Unfettered." Appreciate it.
FETTERMAN: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, considering what the Senator talked about, if you feel you're in crisis, there is help. You can call or text 9-8-8 to reach the 24 Hour Suicide Crisis Lifeline.
Quick reminder, you can listen to my conversation about loss and grief with Country Music Superstar, Kenny Chesney, on my podcast "All There Is." It's available now, wherever you got your podcast or at cnn.com/allthereis. Here's just part of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNY CHESNEY, COUNTRY MUSIC SUPERSTAR: The more you live, the more you experience loss. And I have -- over the last several years, I have lost friends that I've written songs with, that I've collaborated with. I've lost heroes. I've lost island friends, and I don't think they're gone. They're here; they're here; and they're --
COOPER: You feel -- you feel that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
