Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Congress To Send Bill To Trump To Force Disclosure Of Epstein Files; Interview With Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR); Trump To Female Reporter Asking About Epstein: Quiet Piggy; Saudi Leader At White House For First Time Since Khashoggi Murder; Congress To Send Bill To Trump To Force Disclosure Of Epstein Files; ICE Agents Clash With Protesters In St. Paul. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 18, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Witnesses then attempt to intervene. ICE says that the operations were court authorized. Well, tonight, CNN is learning that roughly 250 border agents are now expected to arrive in New Orleans within the next two weeks. And we're getting new protests. A video of protests in Raleigh, North Carolina, where federal agents of course were conducting new immigration raids. As this continues to spread to more cities. Thank you so much for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:32]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the bill to release the Epstein files, now on the brink of becoming law to every single Senate and House member but one agreed to send it to the President to sign.
Also tonight, what will the President do and what will his Justice Department do when it comes to disclosures, the legislation demands?
And later, Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who the CIA says likely ordered the kidnapping, murder and dismemberment of "Washington Post" journalist, gets a hero's welcome in the White House. President Trump defends him in badmouthed the dead journalist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Things happen.
Well, good evening. Thanks for joining us and sometimes good things happen. Tonight, proof that Congress can move fast when it wants to. And with close to a single voice as well. All in support of transparency for the survivors of abuse at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein.
Now, Republicans have asked more -- majority of whom turned a deaf ear to those voices for months at the behest of the President, finally heard them, and in a single afternoon they and Democrats acted almost as one. The House voted by 427 to one to pass bipartisan legislation directing the Justice Department to turn over its files on Epstein.
The Senate, agreed by unanimous consent to pass the bill on arrival, likely tomorrow, and immediately send it on to the President.
Now, he said he'll sign it, the only immediate question seems to be when with a lot more uncertainty about what happens after that, given the President recently ordered the DOJ to start investigating a number of Democrats who have been tied to Epstein. Meaning justice could then refuse to release anything connected to ongoing probes, or might find some other reason to avoid disclosure.
We'll see, one of the survivors alluded to that today before the House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY ROBSON, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: To the President of the United States of America, who is not here today. I want to send a clear message to you. While I do understand that your position has changed on the Epstein files, and I'm grateful that you have pledged to sign this bill, I can't help to be skeptical of what the agenda is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, for now, though, there is vindication for her and the other survivors, one of whom spoke to CNN's Jake Tapper tonight about her feelings watching from the House gallery as the yes votes piled up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESS MICHAELS, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: They initially decided to do just a verbal vote. Do you know when they just they just screamed out whether it's Yay or Nay, but then they decided that they wanted to do an electronic vote, which means we actually sat there for 15 minutes and watched the names change with their vote.
So, we had this visual representation of all of us unanimously joining -- joining in supporting survivors and showing us that they are not going to stay silent about powerful predators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The fight over this bill also caused strains within the President's right flank. Congressman Thomas Massie, who sponsored the bill, who was on the program last night, earned insults and primary threats, as did the Georgia Congresswoman. The President now calls Marjorie "Traitor" Greene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I was called a traitor by a man that I fought for five -- no, actually, six years for. And I gave him my loyalty for free. I won my first election without his endorsement, and he called me a traitor for standing with these women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As for the President himself, he's hosting Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince at a black-tie dinner in the White House East Room tonight. Earlier in the Oval Office, he turned on the reporter who asked him this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?
TRUMP: You know, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. You're all psyched up, somebody psyched you over at ABC.
You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter. As far as the Epstein files is, I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. I threw him out of my club many years ago because I thought he was a sick pervert. But I guess I turned out to be right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, just to be clear, that's different from the reason he gave back in July for his split with Epstein, which was that Epstein was hiring away young women who worked at Mar-a-Lago spa. As for the President's apparent irritation of being asked about Epstein, though, that is not new.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Sir --
TRUMP: Yes, Jennifer go ahead, go ahead.
REPORTER: --if there's nothing incriminating in the files sir, why not act --
TRUMP: Quiet, quiet, piggy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:05]
COOPER: Quiet, piggy. The President of the United States, Friday, calling a female reporter doing her job, Piggy and to be quiet.
Starting us off tonight, CNN's chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, is it clear when the President plans to sign this bill into law and would there be an actual ceremony?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes and Anderson, I'll just say those two reporters that you just showed there, they're both excellent reporters. My colleagues in the press corps, they do a very good job asking questions of the President. And so, obviously, they were just doing their jobs in those moments and obviously --
COOPER: He seems to be doing this a lot. I mean, this is like, you know, three days. I guess that was Friday, this is today. I don't know if he's ramping this up against reporters, but it just seems like --
COLLINS: Well, Anderson, you know, what it speaks to -- it speaks to, I think there are questions about Epstein. I mean, today also, he was being asked about Jamal Khashoggi and his murder that was ordered. Trumps CIA found by the Crown Prince. He was sitting there inside the Oval Office today. But a lot of the questions have been about Jeffrey Epstein and this issue and I think it speaks to how the President has been viewing this and how this has gotten so far out of his control, to the point where he is on the verge now of signing this bill and being told and telling Republicans on Sunday night, as he did, to go ahead and vote for it, long after it was already solidified, Anderson, that it was going to be brought for a vote, which the White House tried to fight, and even brought in a rank and file House member to the situation room to try to convince them not to vote for it. Using the attorney general and the FBI director to try to sway her vote on this.
I think it speaks to how the President is feeling about how the Jeffrey Epstein situation has unfolded, because he's described it as a con job and he has tried to push it on just saying its Democrats who only want to use this to hurt him and his administration, ignoring the fact that Thomas Massie is one of the Republicans leading this, who largely votes with President Trump and his agenda 90 percent of the time, Anderson.
And so, I think that is something that the White House did not expect that we would ever be in this moment here in Washington, where the President is on the verge of signing this because it's rare territory for him, Anderson.
Usually it's Republicans caving to President Trump. This is President Trump having to cave to Republicans because the White House understood that they were ready to defy him in pretty large numbers in that vote today. And so, that is what led to the President's post and that calculus that changed inside the White House over this vote.
And so, I think all of that is tied up into this. And so, we are waiting to see when he's going to actually sign this bill. It hasn't yet gotten through the Senate and made it to the President's desk yet. But that's going to happen pretty quickly here, potentially as soon as tomorrow.
And so, what I was told earlier is the President was kind of weighing his options of when exactly he was going to sign it, but he is expected to sign it, Anderson. And so, the question next is what the attorney general and the Justice Department does with it.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, has the White House reacted to this idea floated by Marjorie Taylor Greene and others, that the newly ordered investigations into Democrats mentioned in the Epstein files will prevent DOJ or could be used by DOJ from stopping them from fully releasing everything?
COLLINS: I think it will put Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, in a really difficult spot in terms of what this is going to look like, because the law does have a time component to it. It's not just a subpoena or anything like that. It's got a 30-day period for the Justice Department to hand over these documents and to release them and make them public.
And so, that's what Congressman Thomas Massie was just telling me a few moments ago. And so, as were looking at what this looks like going forward, you know, these are investigations that the President has only ordered into Democrats here. And so, you know, obviously, many people were named in those e-mails that were released last week. The names that the President was citing, including himself.
And so, I think the question of whether or not those investigations are even actually ongoing and what that looks like at the Justice Department is still a question, but we don't know yet if they're going to try to use that here, Anderson, to say, well, we can't release this information because we're investigating Larry Summers because he was mentioned in those e-mails last week. That is something that is still very much up for discussion, and it's not even clear to me tonight, Anderson, that the Justice Department knows what they're doing with this.
This has happened so incredibly quickly that I don't think anyone that I've spoken with at the White House, at least in the last few days, thought it was going to happen just this fast.
COOPER: Wow, and you're speaking to Khanna and Massie on your program, right?
COLLINS: Yes, we are speaking to them and three of the survivors who were up on Capitol Hill today offering really powerful testimony, Anderson, which I think is a big part of this, because we talk about the politics. These women today were holding up photos of them when they were 14-years-old, when they were in the ninth grade saying, yes, we are grown women now. We're coming forward and were talking about this, but this is who Jeffrey Epstein abused and who were his victims, they were young girls. And I think that's something that Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna have put at the forefront here.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thanks. See you at the top of the hour.
Joining me right now is Oregon Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley, who authored a Senate version of the Epstein bill. Senator, so after the President signs this bill, which he said he will do, I mean, if you're confident of that, when would materials start out? Kaitlan saying there could be, you know, a month that the DOJ has to respond?
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Well, the bill does give him 30 days to release the files. And I am absolutely concerned that he will find various legal reasons to not release things that are critical to himself. It's almost impossible to imagine the man who is President Donald Trump, releasing information that impugns him in any significant way. [20:10:17]
I do want to pause, Anderson, and just say, huge thanks to the grassroots advocates. This is a case of folks from the very far right to the very far left, everybody in the middle, American people saying it is outrageous that powerful men could be involved in a conspiracy to rape hundreds of young women, girls and get away with it. And so this profound sense of just basic justice had a big victory today.
And I want to say, I don't know that any new congresswoman or congressman for that matter, has ever made such an impact is Adelita Grijalva to be sworn in and be able to provide the final signature on the discharge petition to make this cascade of events happened. It was a great day for transparency, for accountability, but the story is not over yet. We haven't seen those files.
COOPER: Because the President now says he's on board. If that really is true, why wouldn't he just order the Justice Department to release everything they have immediately?
MERKLEY: Yes, absolutely. I don't think he'll do that. I think he'll take his time with the 30 days. I think he'll find excuses not to release key elements, but that means we have to continue this fight. And when you have this major break between the Republican House members and the Republican Senate members and the President, it reverberates powerfully.
So, I think there will be enormous pressure on the President. And I think also, this particular event may be seen as the moment when the President's absolute control producing a rubber stamp Congress starts to break apart. I certainly hope.
COOPER: We'll see. Senator Merkley, thank you so much. Coming up next, we have reaction to the President calling that female reporter, Piggy.
Later, more on Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince, the lavish welcome the President is giving him, and the President is giving to a man his own CIA once said ordered the killing of Washington Post journalist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:58]
COOPER: Looking there at the White House where the President is throwing a lavish dinner for Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince, sometime as soon as tomorrow, he could have the Epstein files bill on his desk to sign. It's passage today, him just days after he threw in the towel in the face of Republican defections and agreed to support the measure.
People familiar with his strategy tell CNN the pressure was growing on him to make a major change in his position, which he did Sunday night but he was still fighting up until then, including on Friday, when he lashed out at a reporter for daring to ask about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Sir --
TRUMP: Yes, Jennifer go ahead, go ahead.
REPORTER: --if there's nothing incriminating in the files sir, why not act --
TRUMP: Quiet, quiet, piggy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Quiet, quiet, piggy is what he said. I'm joined by CNN chief political analyst David Axelrod, former senior adviser to President Obama, senior political commentator Ana Navarro, as well as senior political commentator David Urban, a former Trump campaign adviser.
Ana, I mean, we heard him lash out at a female reporter today in the Oval Office for asking a question. He said he didn't like her tone and that she's a terrible reporter and that a whole cavalcade of insults and then calling this woman, Piggy.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I sometimes feel like we've gotten numb to the fact that this is Donald Trump's normal, but this is not normal, and it is not acceptable to attack the press for -- these were very legitimate questions.
The woman on Air Force One was asking about Epstein, the woman today, both of them women, notice, women reporters, women journalists was asking about the murder of "The Washington Post" reporter and having the man who the CIA found was implicated in ordering that murder in the Oval Office, giving him this lavish welcome that he's --
So, these are legitimate questions that any serious professional reporter should be asking. And that is not normal for the President of the United States to wage ad hominem, offensive attacks on women, men, or any journalist doing their job in a country where we don't kill our journalists, we respect free press.
COOPER: Well, David, I mean, it's interesting, you know, you're sitting next to you know, Mohammed bin Salman. Obviously, we know the record of Saudi Arabia on human rights and certainly complete lack of press freedom. But, I mean, it's not the first time he has referred to women as pigs. I go back to the Obama, times. President Obama -- I mean, if Obama had ever said this, people's heads would have exploded.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, first of all, I'm glad you noted that he was sitting next to a guy who authorized, according to U.S. intelligence, the assassination, as it were, of a of a journalist who was asking probing questions. And I don't think the President feels that is an appropriate role for journalists, that journalists should be subservient to the people they're covering.
But the bigger thing is we're talking about sort of sexism in his dealings with women. And he has been in reference to women, politicians, women journalists. He's been very consistent in his demeaning language. But what could be more demeaning than hiding these files? And, brushing aside questions about, the abuse of young women over a long period of time by someone to whom he was -- with whom he was very close.
I mean, I think, you know that as distasteful as the rest of it is, this is a really hideous thing. And this is what he's still wrestling with tonight. Even with the vote of the Congress today.
[20:20:25]
COOPER: David Urban, I mean, I, you know, hate to have you on here to ask you this question, but, I mean, it's --
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Anderson, why do you get me -- why do you give me all the easy ones, buddy?
COOPER: Well, yes. I mean, quiet, Piggy. I mean, you know, I mean, I don't know, I don't think it was a reference to lord of the flies, which there's a whole thing about, you know, a little boy should be called Piggy.
URBAN: Yes, listen, listen. So, it's my understanding that Air Force One, there's no excuse for that, right? No excuse for calling anybody, Piggy. It's my understanding that, that one reporter interrupted another reporter. The President got angry with that and it was, by the way, it was two female reporters. So, it was -- but again, no excuse for calling anybody those names. It's just -- it is kind of silly and distracts from so many things.
As far as the Epstein files go, you know, I've been saying this for a long time. Bad news doesn't get better with age. I'm not quite sure what's in there. These should have been released as soon as President Trump got elected, he campaigned on it. A lot of his base wanted it, and they finally got their way today.
You know, on the show, Anderson, I said, I'd grow hair sooner than Donald Trump would sign this. So, I don't know where I go to get like -- I may go to Turkey soon.
COOPER: I believe your quote was, I will sooner grow hair in my head than the Senate votes on this and this gets to the President's desk. It's never going to happen.
URBAN: Yes, maybe I'll go on one of those, maybe I'll be going one of those trips to Turkey.
COOPER: Yes, if that comes across my Instagram feed one more time, I'm going to clearly telling you. URBAN: This is unprecedented, right? This is really unprecedented.
This is the first time I think that I've seen in and the first Trump administration or this Trump administration, where the President got brushed back by the Congress. And, you know, the Congressional will, you know, took precedence over the President's political power.
COOPER: I do just want to bring it back to this Piggy thing because, I mean, I remember a couple of weeks ago, Ana, or days ago, the time is truncated when he was turning to some guy, a reporter, a female reporter -- asked him a question, and he was saying, the guy like, I just like to watch her, the way I'd just like to watch her talk, like just completely dismissing this person. And I know DEI is not allowed anymore. And I know diversity and, you know, actually treating people with decency and human kindness is not, you know, the what's popular today in some quarters.
But I just don't understand how somebody acts like this time after time and everyone just pretends like, oh, that's just what this guy does.
NAVARRO: It's what I've told you in the in the beginning, we've grown numb to it, and I think we have to fight that urge to normalize it and get numb to it. And I also think that other journalists in the Oval Office, other journalists that are present when he behaves this way, have to express solidarity with the people that are getting berated, because today it might be ABC, but tomorrow it might be us, or it might be them.
And so, you know, it just can't be allowed. This is something that if you children did.
COOPER: My other thought is these are all things he has been called as a child or at some point in his life. And like it just seems absurd to me, David Axelrod, the President of United States again, this is --
NAVARRO: And you know, I'm glad you mentioned diversity, equity and inclusion because, you know, where there is -- where we have seen precious little diversity and the list of people e-mailing Jeffrey Epstein. I haven't seen many Latinos on that list or immigrants or Black people.
COOPER: David Axelrod, I mean, as for the Epstein files, I mean, to Ana's point, senior White House official tells CNN the bill will be signed whenever it gets to the White House. House. How do you think? I mean, do you see that as a public thing? Do you think, you know, he likes the public science.
AXELROD: It's coming over by radio flier wagon, I think so, -- no, listen, first of all, Dave Urban now I know what to get you for the holidays. A comb now that you're going to grow a hair. So, this was look, this was a great moment. It was the best of Democracy rising up. I think, Ro Khanna and Massie deserve great credit, and others for what they did. And especially the survivors who have been such a strong voice.
But let us be clear this is not the end. The Congress got off the hook today. For now, the President did not. Now the hot potato is to him. And the question is, what does he do? What does the Justice Department that he obviously runs, and he makes that point all the time, what do they do?
Are we actually -- what are we going to see and what are we not going to see? And when are we going to see it? And we don't know the answers to any of those questions, because he clearly doesn't want these records released. If he wanted them released, they would have been released months ago.
So, I don't think this is the end of the story. It's a great day. There's great symbolism to it. But you know, the President does what the President wants and we'll see if he can be compelled and the Justice Department can be compelled to live up to the spirit of this legislation today.
COOPER: Yes, David --
[20:25:39]
NAVARRO: Axe, can I can I just say, I don't know that I agree with -- I agree with you in part, Axe, that it's a good day and today was a victory. But to me, this is not the best of Democracy. And it's not a great day because it's taken almost six months to get this. It should not have required an act of Congress. It should not have required the Epstein victims having to come out over and over again, reliving their trauma. It should not have required a congresswoman being dragged into the Situation Room and having all this pressure put on her by this administration. It should not have required, Adelita Grijalva finally getting sworn in after 40 days by Mike Johnson.
So, I think its honestly, I think it's a very shameful day for this administration and for this Congress.
COOPER: We've got to leave it there, I know, David Urban --
URBAN: I would just say, I would just say quickly, Anderson. I do think it's a great day for the victims, because they do get some solace here at the end of the day, they get some relief. Hopefully they'll get some closure, things will be able to move forward. We can put this to bed. They can move forward in their lives.
COOPER: I think they want to know what's in those files. David Urban, David Axelrod --
NAVARRO: They know their names. Ana Navarro, thanks very much.
Up next, more on the President, the Saudi Crown Prince, and his defense of him on human rights and the killing of Washington Post Journalist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen, but he knew nothing about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later an Epstein survivor on what she saw and felt at the Capitol today is the bill shed been pushing for, passed almost unanimously.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:57]
COOPER: The President is hosting Saudi Arabia's de facto ruler to black tie dinner at the White House. And though Mohammed bin Salman is still up only a crown prince, it follows a welcome today fit for a king.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There was that multi-story brass fanfare to greet the crown prince, a flyover to perform by F-35 jets, similar to the ones the President now says he'll plant a cell to the kingdom. And once inside the Oval Office, the President seemed almost bubbling over to see him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN: We've worked with all presidents.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did Trump blow (ph) him all the way?
BIN SALMAN: It's not (INAUDIBLE), Mr. President.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President?
TRUMP: And Trump doesn't give a fist pump. I grab that hand, I don't give a hell where that hand's been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Doesn't care where that hand's been. The hand, though, according to a CIA assessment, has the blood of slain Washington Post Journalist Jamal Khashoggi on it. Khashoggi was last seen in October 2018 entering the Saudi consulate right there in Istanbul, where he was murdered and cut into pieces. He was dismembered with a bone saw.
The CIA concluded that Mohammed bin Salman approved of that murder, the same Mohammed bin Salman who's right now being feted at the White House. And the President knew that. President Trump even admitted he knew MBS was guilty.
He told journalist Bob Woodward that he, quote, "saved his ass," meaning the crown prince's ass. And he covered for him again today, even praising Mohammed bin Salman's human rights record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm very proud of the job he's done. What he's done is incredible in terms of human rights and everything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, in case you were wondering, Human Rights Watch recently said this about the Saudi regime. Quote, "The reality at home is mass repression, record numbers of executions, and zero tolerance for dissent."
Now, it's not surprising the President did not mention this. Things left unsaid are not exactly uncommon in diplomacy. What is uncommon, though, is a President openly defending and absolving an alleged murderer and then implying his victim might have had it coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that, gentleman, that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It wasn't all, though. Of course, he berated the reporter, whose question prompted that answer, calling her a terrible person and terrible reporter. Then, with the de facto ruler of a country with no freedom of the press to speak of still by his side, he said this about the reporter's news organization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'll tell you something. I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it's so wrong. And we have a great commissioner, the chairman, who should look at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Again, there's no such thing as press freedom in Saudi Arabia. According to the group Freedom House, the kingdom scores a zero out of four in that category. And with its own open threat against ABC, the President certainly must have made his guests feel right at home on that front, which, keep it honest, is nothing new.
Put the President next to an absolute ruler, something just happens. Whether it's trashing a pillar of American freedom or trashing America's intelligence community when standing next to Vladimir Putin, as he did in 2018. [20:35:13]
TRUMP: My people came to me. Dan Coats came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, joining us now, a former colleague of Jamal Khashoggi's, Jason Rezaian, global opinions writer for The Washington Post. Jason, I appreciate you being here. When you heard President Trump defending the crown prince, saying, quote, "he knew nothing about the murder" and that Khashoggi was extremely controversial, what did you think?
JASON REZAIAN, GLOBAL OPINIONS WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, Anderson, I didn't expect much more from President Trump today than repetition of defense for Mohammed bin Salman. But I think it was even worse than I anticipated. The sort of fawning over him and coming to his defense. I mean, that question was posed to Mohammed bin Salman. It wasn't posed to President Trump.
And I think the notion that someone who our own intelligence community, Trump's own intelligence community, has concluded with very high certainty, and we've known this for over 17 -- seven years that MBS was responsible for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Why even bring this leader into the White House? It's beneath the office, I think.
COOPER: Well, I mean, what does it say that the President is effectively -- I mean, he's dismissing his own, you know, CIA at the time they investigated, the assessment came out in 2021, that, you know, Khashoggi is, you know, whether you like him or not, didn't like him, things happen, to say that, that things happen about the dismemberment of Khashoggi in an embassy in Istanbul --
REZAIAN: Of a human being, yes.
COOPER: Yes.
REZAIAN: It's shocking --
COOPER: Like, that doesn't happen very often, you know? It's not like just something that happens.
REZAIAN: No, it doesn't happen. And the reality is, I think at the time Marco Rubio, who was a senator at the time, now Secretary of State said, there's not enough money in the world to buy back our credibility on human rights. And he was talking specifically about this case. It was striking to me hat Secretary Rubio was in the room today, defending all of these deals that are happening.
And it sends the message to the rest of the world that actually there is a price. There's a price for everything. And we will do business with the highest bidder.
COOPER: Yes. REZAIAN: Whether or not they cause the destruction of innocent lives, whether or not they silence critics, all of these things that you and I have held dear as Americans our entire lives, being undermined right under our noses within the White House today.
COOPER: Right. And obviously there's business interests the family has in the region. In your op-ed in the Washington Post, you write about an off-the-record meeting that you attended with MBS and the Post editorial board in 2018. This was six months before Khashoggi was murdered. What did you take away from that face-to-face?
REZAIAN: My impression of him was that he was intelligent, well- spoken, speaks very good English, as you, you saw today, can communicate in popular culture references, which always puts Americans at ease, but that he was lying. He was lying about the direction he intends to take his country while he certainly wants to modernize it and bring more business to Saudi Arabia.
The idea that he's going to liberalize society, give freedoms to the people of Saudi Arabia, he's been making those promises for the better part of a decade. And as you cited, Human Rights Watch and other human rights organizations have concluded that, you know, executions are sky high.
They had a record number of executions in Saudi Arabia last year that political prisoners, any kind of critic that dares to speak out against his leadership has the fate of prison or death to look forward to. And know that so many of the people that have been driving for even the smallest rights, the right for women to drive in Saudi Arabia, for example, end up in prison for very, very long periods of time.
COOPER: Yes. Jason Rezaian, I appreciate you being with us. Thank you.
Just ahead tonight, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse gather on Capitol Hill today to witness the passage of the bill, releasing the files. Tonight, one of them is speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARINA LACERDA, EPSTEIN'S SURVIVOR: It will bring back, you know, that 14-year-old of me that doesn't remember what she has gone through and what she has done in Jeffrey Epstein's house. And I think it'll also bring transparency, not only for myself, but for all the victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:40:09]
COOPER: Also tonight, federal agents take action against protesters during an ICE operation in St. Paul, Minnesota.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey! Hey! Hey!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey! Hey!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Details on this clash ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:03]
Our breaking news tonight, a near unanimous vote in the House passing the bill, which directs the Justice Department to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. The bill now goes to the Senate, where members agreed tonight to adopt it by unanimous consent, which means no roll call vote is needed. So as soon as the bill arrives, likely tomorrow, it's already considered passed. It goes directly to President Trump, who says he'll sign it.
Now, these major developments were a long time coming for survivors of Epstein's abuse who gathered today outside the Capitol in a show of support to get the bill passed. Moments ago, I spoke to Marina Lacerda, an Epstein survivor, who says she was just 14 years old when she met him. She was identified as Minor Victim 1 in the 2019 federal indictment against Epstein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Marina, what's your reaction to Congress being on the verge of sending this bill to the President's desk, I mean, tomorrow, looks like? And the reality is, I mean, if you wanted to, President Trump could have done this long ago on his own.
LACERDA: I feel that, you know, I feel fearful that President Trump, you know, may not release the files. And I really can't understand why he's, you know, not wanting to do that, considering the fact that he was on board with all of us in 2009. I hope he joins us in this fight in the same way he would as if one of us was his daughter.
COOPER: Another Epstein survivor said today in Washington she's skeptical of the President's flip-flop on releasing the files now. Why do you think he did it? Do you think, I mean, that he just realized he couldn't stop it from getting passed in the House and didn't want to have an embarrassment like that?
LACERDA: I think so. You know, it's one of those things where it's like, he can't go against us anymore and now he might as well join us. But it's still -- we are still fearful that, you know, those files have been in his hands for so long. We wonder what kind of redactions have been made, you know?
Is it only for the survivors or is it only benefiting him at this point? So we are fearful that those files may come out, but it may not be, you know, what we're expecting.
COOPER: Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene kind of indicated something like that. She said she's worried the Justice Department might argue they can't even release the files given the federal prosecutors on orders from the President are now investigating Epstein's ties to prominent Democrats.
LACERDA: Right, which is crazy because we are so confused why they're trying to open up an investigation. I feel like that we are the investigation. There's no need to open up the investigation at this point. We have fought so long for this and it is time to release the files.
We asked for President Trump to sign and release the files. It is enough. We, the survivors and people all over the country have fought for this for months and we ask and we plead for him to just release the files already.
COOPER: What will it mean personally for you if the files ultimately get released? I know you've said that seeing the documents could help it in a healing process. Is that what's at the core of it for you?
LACERDA: Oh, absolutely. Not only for the survivors it is healing, but you know, because like we said earlier and we talked about this earlier, we have so much trauma and so much PTSD from all of this that we -- some of us cannot remember some of the details that we've gone through and have been through with Jeffrey Epstein.
It would bring us justice, transparency and it would be part of our healing process. So it would mean everything to us and also for everybody and, you know, all over the world, everyone's waiting for this. It would mean a lot for all of us.
COOPER: Are you hoping to learn something new through the files? Is there something particular you will be looking for?
LACERDA: For myself, there is something new. It will bring back, you know, that 14-year-old of me that doesn't remember what she has gone through and what she has done in Jeffrey Epstein's house. And I think it'll also bring transparency not only for myself but for all the victims. It is part of my healing process. It means everything to me at this point to bring out those files.
COOPER: Yes. Well, Marina Lacerda, I really appreciate you talking to me tonight. Thank you. I wish you the best.
LACERDA: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
COOPER: Well, as we mentioned, today was an emotional day for many of the survivors. With me now is Randi Kaye, a therapist -- excuse me, Randee Kogan, a therapist for some of the women abused by Jeffrey Epstein. And Sarah Fitzpatrick, an investigative reporter who's extensively covered the Epstein case.
Randee, you were with a number of survivors on Capitol Hill today pushing for this legislation to pass. How are they feeling about this moment with the bill headed to the President's desk tomorrow?
RANDEE KOGAN THERAPIST FOR EPSTEIN FILES: The momentum was wonderful today. The support was incredible. But there is still a tremendous amount of fear, as Marina indicated. Fear that he's going to hold off or he's going to change his mind. Fear that he's redacted information in the files. So there's -- the hope is still present, but they don't know what to expect anymore because Trump changed his mind. He is now agreeing to release the files. But we won't know until he signs.
[20:50:18]
COOPER: Sarah, what do you think is going to happen tomorrow? Even just in the signing of this, do you think it'll be done in private? Do you think it'll be some sort of a ceremony?
SARAH FITZPATRICK, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I think that is a life ball question right now. But the survivors and many of the advocates and even at this point, Republican or Republicans who voted in favor of this that have been so moved by the public pressure and by the fact that they haven't received answers from the Trump administration in private.
I think there is going to be a lot of pressure to make this public, to make this as public as possible. But I think there's a catch here. Donald Trump has identified himself in his comments on Air Force One that he had knowledge that Epstein was recruiting women from Mar-a- Lago and his name appearing so extensively in these emails released by the state.
He -- you know, in the event that those -- that signing, there are women there that are survivors, they are going to ask him point blank questions. And I don't think that he has a good answer for that, Or at least he hasn't presented that thus far.
So it's a really, really interesting potential dynamic and exactly what those behind the scenes machinations as they play out tonight, I think is going to be very interesting.
COOPER: Yes. Randee, I mean, I'm wondering this process, this long drawn out process, how has it impacted some of the clients you work with?
KOGAN: It's been tremendous on them. They have been hoping for justice since the 1990s. And every time they're hoping that, all right, we have a little momentum. OK, this is the time we're going to finally get what we we've asked for. And then it's delayed even more.
So there's a matter of trust. Who are they supposed to trust? How can they trust that Trump will sign? How can they trust that all of the information will still be in the files? So it's been an emotional rollercoaster for so many of them. They want to believe that justice is close.
And having this momentum and seeing the support from the Republicans and the Democrats and watching them work together to get answers that they've been waiting for, it's been incredible. But the fear, this looming fear is still present.
COOPER: And Sarah, I mean, the President could have done this at any time. I mean, he didn't need to wait for this bill to -- if he had really wanted it released, he could have had it released.
FITZPATRICK: Absolutely. And I think that is going to be, you know, the open question going forward is, why was there this delay? And what behind the scenes, what pressure has he put on the Justice Department? What pressures has he put on members of Congress to attempt to prevent this from going forward? Those are the journalistic questions that we are going to be pursuing from now on.
COOPER: Yes. Sarah Fitzpatrick, Randee Kogan, thank you so much.
Coming up next, another ICE enforcement location, St. Paul, Minnesota. And what followed there?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey! Hey! Hey!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'll tell you what happened there, as well as new operations at another city, Raleigh, North Carolina. Also, a new episode of my podcast, All There Is, out tonight, a conversation with comedian and actress Tig Notaro, who was recently in the deathbed of a good friend, poet Andrea Gibson.
TIG NOTARO, ACTRESS: You know how tricky it is? You go about your day and you're doing all right. And then all of a sudden, a truck parks itself on your chest and you can't do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:58:23]
COOPER: A tense situation in St. Paul, Minnesota this morning. Federal agents fired tear gas at a crowd that had gathered during an ICE operation at a local business. At one point, a law enforcement officer tackled and forced a protester to the ground. An ICE spokesperson says the agency was in the area to serve a search warrant as part of a, quote, "federal criminal investigation."
Meanwhile, protesters have peacefully taken the streets of North Carolina's capital tonight as immigration raids expanded to the Raleigh area. The Department of Homeland Security says more than 200 undocumented immigrants have been arrested so far in Charlotte.
A new episode of my podcast, All There Is, just released in the last hour. My guest this week is comedian, actress, and cancer survivor Tig Notaro. Tig recently had a transforming experience being at the bedside of her friend, a spoken word poet, Andrea Gibson, as Gibson died.
I talked with Tig about the impact of that experience on her. Here's just part of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOTARO: I didn't expect to feel Andrea so much.
COOPER: Andrea's presence still.
NOTARO: Yes. I mean, I've lost my mother, my father, my stepfather, my cousin. I've lost many friends and colleagues. I have to say it's really the first time I've experienced a death in the way that I have where I really feel Andrea.
And I don't know what that is. But the grief I feel, you know how tricky it is. You go about your day and you're doing all right. And then all of a sudden, a truck parks itself on your chest and you can't do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's a really moving and at times very funny conversation as well. You can listen to the full conversation wherever you get your podcast, or you can watch the entire episode, all the podcasts, as well. You can watch that at CNN.com/AllThereIs. I think it's on YouTube as well, at CNN.com/AllThereIs. You can also watch my streaming show, which is a new companion show to the podcast. It's All There Is Live. That's every Thursday night live at 9:15 p.m. Eastern time.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
