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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Interview with Rep. Nancy Pelosi, (D) House Speaker Emerita; Interview with Sen. Ruben Gallego (D-AZ); White House Won't Say if President Received Epstein Bill for His Signature; University Investigating Larry Summers' Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein; President Trump Signs Bill on Release of Epstein Files; Nancy Pelosi Says Trump is Surrounded by Much Worse People Now; Pelosi Worried About Administration's Global Fund for HIV AIDS. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 19, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: adviser as well. He says anything is possible, but as he put it, Iran is ready -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Fred, thank you very much. Obviously, a very rare interview and Fred, being able to be on the ground in Tehran tonight.
Thanks so much to Fred and thanks so much, of course, as always, to all of you for being with us. We'll be back here tomorrow night. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:24]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360. Why hasn't the President signed the Epstein Transparency Act yet? And if he does, is the administration ready laying the groundwork for putting a lid on releasing the files.
Also tonight, more fallout for one of the biggest Democratic names connected to Epstein, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, who just took another big step back from public life, now under scrutiny from Harvard, where he once served as President.
And later, in her first interview since announcing she's retiring, my exclusive conversation with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, who has seen more history than many lawmakers ever will and accomplished more than most of her predecessors, all men ever did.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
Tonight. As we wait for the President to sign the Epstein Files Transparency Act. The key question is just how much transparency is the administration, meaning the President prepared to deliver. Because it really is up to him now, Speaker Emerita Pelosi has her doubts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): There is a question as to whether he will intervene and say, I want an investigation. And when you have an investigation, you cannot release the documents. That's what were concerned about.
COOPER: He's called for a DOJ investigation of Democrats related to Epstein, you're concerned that might be used by the Department of Justice to say, well, we can't release these files because --
PELOSI: Well, that's why he's saying it. He's not saying it because he wants it, but he's saying it because he doesn't -- he is not concerned about Democrats, he's concerned about himself.
COOPER: Do you think he's trying to use that to block the files from actually being released?
PELOSI: Exactly, exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A lot more from her ahead tonight. The thing is very little that the administration did or said today provides any real reassurance on that score. We know the bill was sent to the White House today, but as far as we can tell, the President who said he'll sign the bill has yet to actually do that. The White House has given out no information. No one said when the President would sign it, or even that he's received it from the Senate.
And though Attorney General Bondi today used the phrase maximum transparency again and again when speaking to reporters. Listen to her answer to a question about when and how the Epstein files would actually be made public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will continue to follow the law with maximum transparency while protecting victims.
REPORTER: When you say the follow the law, Madam Attorney General, do you mean that you will provide all the files by 30 days?
BONDI: We will follow the law. The law passed both chambers last evening. It has not yet been signed. But we will continue to follow the law again, while protecting victims, but also providing maximum transparency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Seems like the watchwords are maximum transparency. The rehearsed ones, but no real answers as to what that actually means. Nor did this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Does the new investigation by the Southern District of New York, U.S. attorney prevent the department from releasing all of the remaining files? BONDI: So we have released 33,000 -- over 33,000 Epstein documents to
the Hill, and we'll continue to follow the law and to have maximum transparency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There's that word again, maximum transparency. No actual answer to the question, though, that was asked of her but of course, maximum transparency.
Now, keeping them honest, here are another two dozen words you should know. They come from her own department's memo in July, slamming the lid on even minimum transparency in the case. And they read, and I quote, "It is the determination of the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation that no further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted".
Remember, that was a bombshell when they announced that. Here's another 14-word from that very same memo. "We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties".
So in July, according to that, the DOJ suddenly said, all right, no more disclosures and there's no reason to investigate any further. There's no case. Presumably nothing more to reveal or to investigate, except, as you know, that changed five days ago. And the attorney general today was asked why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What changed since then that you launched this investigation?
BONDI: Information -- there's information that new information, additional information and again, we will continue to follow the law to investigate any leads. If there are any victims, we encourage all victims to come forward and we will continue to provide maximum transparency under the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I thought she wasn't going to say maximum transparency again, but she did. What changed, which she could not actually bring herself to say is quite obvious. Her boss, the President, posted the following demand on his social network, "I will be asking A.G., Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice together with our great patriots at the FBI, to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and relationship with Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, JPMorgan Chase and many other people in institutions to determine what was going on with them and him.
Now, that went up at 10:35 on the morning of determine what was going on with them and him. Now, that went up at 10:35 on the morning of November 14th. By 2:12 that afternoon, Attorney General Bondi had named a prosecutor in a post that led with the words thank you, Mr. President. [20:05:26]
So, now there's a case and a pretext for doing exactly what Speaker Emerita Pelosi says she fears. For more on all this, we're joined now by CNN chief White House correspondent, anchor of "The Source", Kaitlan Collins. So, the bill, Kaitlan was sent to the House today. Do we know anything about where it is when the President may sign it? Why the White House is being silent about all this?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Nothing, Anderson, we've asked multiple times today when the White House planned to have the President sign it. If he had actually already signed it or if they were going to do so with the cameras in the room, as they've done for so many, you know, signing ceremonies, not just for bills but for executive orders. Remember when he reopened the government, they even brought in the press to the Oval Office when it was 10:00 at night and had a lot of lawmakers and members of Congress inside the room.
We have not heard from them yet, Anderson, on what their plans are for this bill in particular. And so, we do know that it has made its way over to the White House. I was told by a person familiar that the bill was transmitted from the House to the White House this afternoon earlier today. The question is, what happens next here and whether or not, you know, we could get a statement from the White House saying that the President signed it without any of the press inside the room, or we may not we may not know yet.
We just have not really gotten any answers from them, Anderson, which is pretty telling, given obviously, this is a President who typically has signed a lot of things when reporters are inside the room. And so, I do think its notable that they just have said nothing, regardless about what the exact plans are for this bill, because the President said on Monday, when the press was in the room, that he did plan to sign the bill, that he would be willing to do so, and obviously, that process happened a lot faster than I think most White House Officials were anticipating, because the Senate just took it up unanimously and didn't actually have any kind of, you know, argument or debate on it.
And so, that is really still the question tonight. And the timing matters. Some people might be saying, why does it matter when he's going to sign it as long as he said he is going to sign it. But the minute he signs it, Anderson, it starts that 30-day clock for the Justice Department to release these files. And so, that is why the timing actually is critical here.
COOPER: Yes. Kaitlan, thanks very much. We'll see you back at the top of the hour for "The Source". Joining us now is one of the lawmakers who's been calling for the release of the files and even read part of survivor, Virginia Roberts Giuffre's posthumous memoir on the floor of the Senate. Arizona Democrat Ruben Gallego. Senator, I appreciate you being here. It's been over 24 hours since the Senate voted unanimous consent to pass the bill. It's over the President's --over the White House. They've still not outlined when he'll sign it. How do you interpret the silence on this? SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): Well, look, I think the President is
caught. He never thought he was going to get to this point. If it wasn't for the pressure of a lot of House Democrats, Republicans, you know, a lot of senators as well as, of course, the victims that stood up for themselves. We wouldn't be at the situation. And now, it's come on very sudden to him. And now he's trying to figure out what his next step is, because let's be clear, he's going to continue to engage in a cover up by whatever means possible.
He's going to use the attorney general, Department of Justice to do that. He already has in the past, and that's what he's trying to figure out. He's essentially, I think, trying to formulate the next step right now to figure out how to slow this down, hide it, and basically, you know, try to not take responsibility for the actions of what happened under Epstein.
COOPER: Right, because, I mean, he could have even just ordered the Justice Department to put everything out there. I mean, weeks ago, months ago, but even days ago, he didn't need to wait for this bill to come to the White House. If he truly supported the bill, I mean, why wouldn't he just order the Justice Department to put everything out there right away?
GALLEGO: Well, also, why did you send your assistant attorney general to go meet with, Miss Maxwell? Why did you move Miss Maxwell to a country club, federal prison? You know that she has no right to do, you know. Why are you giving her the opportunity to have a therapy dog and take yoga classes?
Clearly, there's something that happened on that island or with Epstein that this President is involved with or some of his powerful friends are involved with. And the people of this country are sick of it. They're sick of the elites taking care of the elites and the President is pretty much doing that right now.
COOPER: You've said that the President's allies, like the attorney general, will take every opportunity to slow down, to cover up, to confuse. What do you think they could do? I mean, is, you know, Speaker Emerita Pelosi said to me today she's concerned about this idea of the DOJ will say, well, look, there's now an investigation. There's this new information, we're under investigation. So, were not able to release all this information in the middle of an investigation.
GALLEGO: Let's be clear, this President thinks he's above the law, and he will do anything to protect himself and his powerful friends. And he will use any little small piece of language from this text. He will try to stretch any type of legislative intent. He'll try to basically break any norm to protect himself and his rich buddies. So, I don't know what he can do, but I know what he's capable of and he's capable of almost anything provided, as long as he could protect himself, protect his rich buddies and in the process, he's going to re- victimize these poor girls.
[20:10:20] COOPER: It's remarkable that the Attorney General of the United
States, I mean, back in prior administrations, Republican and Democrat, there was supposed to be a, you know, if not a firewall, at least consideration about the appearance of the President trying to influence the attorney general. In this, I mean, we've grown used to the President posting on social media messages to Pam Bondi and her, you know, responding within minutes or hours saying, thank you, sir.
GALLEGO: Well, look, because most of the time we've had presidents that had some level of character that would never do something like this and understand the institutions and the necessity of separation of powers. The other thing you also had was Republicans actually had spines. You know, these are the type of Republicans that stood up to Richard Nixon. They don't exist right now. They don't exist in many numbers in the House, except for a few. And they certainly don't exist for that many in the Senate. And this is why Donald Trump is getting away with everything, whether it is covering up for these elite pedophiles in New York and Mar-a-Lago or, you know, going and making sure and increasing the insurance premiums for 20 million Americans.
There is no check on this man's, you know, lust for power. And normally, under what our founding fathers thought it would be, would be the Senate and the House that did that. But remember, Republicans control everything and the one thing they're using their control is giving this President more power and taking it away from us.
COOPER: I should point out there's no evidence of pedophiles at Mar-a- Lago. I assume you're referring to Jeffrey Epstein, who the President said used to be a member there and then was, according to the President --
GALLEGO: Well, technically, if Epstein is a pedophile, and he was at Mar-a-Lago. That means, therefore, there was a pedophile at Mar-a- Lago. But point being there, you know, this man is again trying to take care of the most elite people, most powerful people trying to cover up for them. He's fighting for them. He's not fighting for us.
COOPER: I appreciate your time, Senator Gallego. Thanks very much.
Coming up next, a closer look at the Epstein related fallout for Larry Summers, former Clinton Treasury Secretary, former Harvard president, now reportedly under investigation by the university.
And a bombshell revelation the government's case against former FBI director James Comey, which could be falling apart completely because the President's handpicked rookie prosecutor.
And later, my exclusive conversation with retiring House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi and the concerns she has had about the rule of law in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In most administrations, President would take pains to say, you know, the Department of Justice is not my Department of Justice. It's the Department of Justice. Do you feel like those norms have evaporated?
PELOSI: I think the whole world thinks that, don't you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:10]
COOPER: Welcome back.
Looking now at the White House, which has gone silent on when the President will sign the Epstein Files Transparency Act. There's certainly no transparency on the timing of it. One high profile name found in the already public documents is Larry Summers. He was Bill Clinton's Treasury Secretary, a top economic adviser to Barack Obama, former President of Harvard, where he still teaches.
The university is now investigating his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, after e-mails show a personal connection between them.
Summers has not been accused of a crime, but says he's deeply ashamed of their friendship that hell step back from public engagements and resign from the board of open A.I. More tonight from CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY SUMMERS, ECONOMIST AND FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: I'm going to step back from public activities but for time. But I think it's very important to fulfill my teaching obligations.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Larry Summers is still teaching, but learning hard lessons too. As Harvard opens an investigation into the relationship between its former leader and the late sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein and President Donald Trump goes on the attack.
TRUMP: Larry Summers, who ran Harvard, was with him every single night, every single weekend. They lived together.
FOREMAN: That's an overstatement. But in a newly revealed e-mail from 2018, Epstein calls himself the professor's wingman. She's already beginning to sound needy, Epstein writes in another message about one woman, Summers was allegedly pursuing. Nice.
In another exchange, Summers refers to getting horizontal with an academic colleague and asks about a strategy from Epstein. And in yet another, Summers writes, best shot for me, she gives up on marriage, finds me invaluable and interesting and get her to conclude she can't have it without romance/sex. Epstein's response, she is doomed to be with you.
Summers, who is himself married, has issued a statement saying "I am deeply ashamed. I take full responsibility for my misguided decision to continue communicating with Mr. Epstein." FOREMAN (on camera): Still, the e-mail exchanges came long after
Epstein had pleaded guilty to state charges of soliciting prostitution with a minor and just before federal charges of sex trafficking minors. The messages do not suggest that Summers was in any way seeking underage women, but it's a big fall anyway.
FOREMAN (voice over): Summers served in high level roles in the Clinton and Obama White Houses, and despite a scandal years ago when he suggested men might be better suited than women for engineering and science, he has been a respected economic analyst.
SUMMERS: On January 1st, no one thought that a recession was a substantial likelihood.
FOREMAN: Now, one time Harvard law professor turned Senator, Elizabeth Warren says.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): No one should trust Larry Summer's judgment, and Larry Summers should not be trusted in a position of responsibility or in a position of teaching our students.
FOREMAN (voice over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is "Miami Herald" investigative reporter, Julie K. Brown, whose work exposed the extent of Epstein's alleged sex trafficking ring and led prosecutors to reopen the case. She is also the author of "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story". Julie, do you think, first of all, the backlash against Summers is facing for his connection to Epstein will usher in more accountability for others with ties to Epstein? Do you think the Harvard investigation will actually yield new information?
[20:20:35]
JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MIAMI HERALD: Listen, Harvard's done an investigation on this case before a number of other academics at Harvard have been associated with Epstein and there really hasn't been a lot of accountability on Harvard's part with this case.
So, it's hard to say what now has changed. I mean, this case has been in the news for a decade, more than a decade, really. And some of these conversations, for example, that Summers had with Epstein, happened after my series ran, which my series really outlined all the women, the young girls and women that Epstein had abused.
So, it's hard to understand why he would have continued to associate with Epstein after that.
COOPER: Especially for relationship or whatever you want to call it advice from I mean, it's stunning. I mean, as stunningly bad judgment. Was it ever clear to you why so many prominent people apparently stayed in touch with Epstein even after he faced charges? I mean, again, after your "Miami Herald" investigation, you know, it's impossible to say the information wasn't out there.
BROWN: Well, there's a number of reasons, but mostly it was money, especially in the case of a lot of these academics. At various universities, particularly Harvard. They were getting funded by him, some of their research, or they were hoping to get funded. Summers, you know, Epstein donated a lot of money to Harvard as a result of his relationship with Summers. So, part of it was, quite frankly, money.
COOPER: Do you read anything -- is the White House not offering any timeline for when the President's going to sign this thing? And also, what you are now hearing from the Department of Justice from Pam Bondi, the language is, you know, this repeating this phrase, maximum transparency over and over, but not really giving any details about what new information has come to light other than the President, said, hey, Pam Bondi, you should open an investigation.
BROWN: There's no information that came to light in one day or two days. I mean, this is them setting the stage, quite frankly, to either not release anything or to release, binders like they did last time, full of dated material that's already in the public domain.
So I, you know, it's discouraging to hear the attorney you know, U.S. attorney keep repeating the same refrain over, you know, the American public isn't dumb with this story. They understand exactly what's happening. They know -- you know, this story is about a horrible crime, but now it has become clear that it's also about a big cover up. And that's what all this is pointing to, that these things are all going to be hidden and it's unfortunate that that's happening.
COOPER: Yes, Julie K. Brown, thank you.
Still ahead, an exclusive conversation with Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. Her first interview since announcing she will retire next year. What she says about the President's second term. Plus, what she calls the greatest threat to the United States.
And next, the Epstein survivors, who have been fighting for transparency for years, talk about their triumph on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I kept trying to tell myself, just be in the moment. Take this in, so many people have worked so long to make this possible try and breathe it in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:45]
COOPER: There is breaking news, the President has just posted on his social network that he has now signed the Epstein Files Transparency Act. It is long, quoting the relevant portion from it, "Jeffrey Epstein, who was charged by the Trump Justice Department in 2019, not the Democrats, was a lifelong Democrat, donated thousands of dollars to Democrat politicians and was deeply associated with many well-known Democrat figures, such as Bill Clinton, who traveled on his plane 26 times. Larry Summers, who just resigned from many boards, including Harvard sleazebag political activist Reid Hoffman, minority leader Hakeem Jeffries, who asked Epstein to donate to his campaign after Epstein was charged. Democrat Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett and many more. Perhaps the truth about these Democrats and their association with Jeffrey Epstein will soon be revealed, because I have just signed the bill to release the Epstein files." That was the President tonight.
Now, for years, the Epstein survivors have been leading the calls for transparency. Several of them were on Capitol Hill yesterday to call on lawmakers to back this bill. And later witness its passage. M.J. Lee has more on that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little, you know, frazzled. But it is good. You know, it's a lot of emotions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, wait, wait. Before we go anywhere, let's just, like, organize this.
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: We are walking over to the House right now with a number of Jeffrey Epstein survivors. They are going to gather together and hold a press conference ahead of this important vote later today. This is a big crowd.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10 min, no adding loopholes.
ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: 30 years later, even as oceans of allegations and obvious truths have emerged, the government has still not chosen transparency.
SKY ROBERTS, BROTHER OF EPSTEIN SURVIVOR VIRGINIA ROBERTS GIUFFRE: Well, sissy, you made a monumental impact, a resounding statement that echoed across the world.
LEE: And this huge group, I mean, you know most of them?
BENSKY: Yeah.
LEE: At this point?
BENSKY: Yeah. Charlene and Laura are new to the community. They have just recently come forward and --
LEE: Yeah.
BENSKY: Our numbers are growing all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to introduce yourselves like quick and then we're --
LEE: So the Epstein's survivors are meeting with various lawmakers throughout the day. And we are currently outside of Congresswoman Nancy Mace's office.
(APPLAUSE)
REP. NANCY MACE, (R-SC): Very emotional day. My heart just is so with you guys, you're giving me hope that maybe one day I might get justice.
BENSKY: Can we give you a hug?
(LAUGH)
MACE: Thank you. I thank you. I deserve courage.
BENSKY: If I follow up, are you good?
FARMER: So, the House vote is about to begin.
BENSKY: OK.
FARMER: It's a whirlwind but --
BENSKY: It's a whirlwind with emotional highs and lows.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Speaker Johnson, did you get a chance to meet with any of the survivors?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON, (R-LA) HOUSE SPEAKER: Not today, but I have before, of course. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is your message to them today?
JOHNSON: Well, we're terribly sorry for everything they've had to endure. Justice has long been delayed for them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill is passed and without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table.
(CROWD CHEERING)
LEE: Tell me about just being upstairs and watching all of that.
BENSKY: It's so surreal. I think I really felt like I was like watching a hallucination.
(LAUGH)
BENSKY: It's amazing. It was amazing.
FARMER: Yeah. I think, it was -- it really, I kept trying to tell myself to be in the moment, take this in. So many people have worked so long to make this possible, to try and -- try and breathe it in. Virginia's brother and sister-in-law gave us these butterflies. It's very, very sad that she's not here with us. But we are certainly carrying -- carrying her spirit with us and we believe she has guided this process.
LEE: Spending the day with you guys, it was kind of amazing, just seeing how well you seem to almost know each other at this point. I wondered whether you can imagine going through this experience now alone.
BENSKY: No.
FARMER: I think every time a large group gathers, it completely changes the dynamic and the experience. Like, it really does move us from feeling like fearful to feeling like we are feared. We have power together.
BENSKY: Yes.
LEE: I keep coming back to the pictures that some of you all were holding up, of your younger selves when you were going through the abuse and the trauma. Is there anything that you think, if you could say something to that younger self?
BENSKY: Yeah.
LEE: Do you know what you would say?
BENSKY: Yeah, I think it just, for me, it's -- I want to hug that tiny human and say, well, one, that it's all going to be OK. I don't have that answer yet. I hope it is, for girls of the future.
LEE (voice-over): MJ Lee, CNN, Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST OF "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Well, next, more on the Breaking News. President Trump has just signed the Epstein files bill. We'll talk about what the DOJ's next move may be. Plus, my exclusive conversation with retiring House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, who has plenty to say about the president she dealt with in his first term and today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE CLIP)
COOPER: Do you think he's a different leader than he was back then in the first term?
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER EMERITA: I think he is, but I think more dangerously, he's surrounded by much worse people than he was before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:38:56]
COOPER: More on the Breaking News. President Trump has just announced he's signed the bill compelling the Justice Department to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. Now, he made the announcement a short time ago on Truth Social. I want to bring in Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig. So all right, so he signed it. What now happens? What would in any normal circumstances happen at the Department of Justice, and do we know what's going to happen here? Because Pam Bondi has come out and said, talking about this new investigation which the president urged to take.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, all of this is highly abnormal. I mean, in a regular case, DOJ would never just open up its files like this. But we have a piece of legislation now, just signed into law moments ago. That triggers DOJ's 30 days. They now have 30 days to make all of this public, to get it over to Congress, which actually puts the disclosure right on the eve of Christmas, December 19th or so.
One really important thing I want people to understand though, there's a huge loophole in the law itself that President Trump just signed and that says that DOJ does not have to make public any materials relating to ongoing criminal investigations. And what that means is it's going to be up to Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche and Kash Patel.
[20:40:00]
If they want to say, well, that relates to some ongoing investigation, it will be redacted or it will be left out, and we will not see that. So I know there's this expectation of now, we're going to see everything. Not necessarily so.
COOPER: What's so extraordinary about this though is Kash Patel was the guy who was on all these podcasts when he was not the FBI director, under Democrats, under -- during when President Biden was in power saying, look, they could release this stuff right away.
HONIG: Right.
COOPER: It's -- the FBI could do this right away. He's now in charge of the FBI and he's going to be one of the people determining what is actually released.
HONIG: Kash Patel has been through several iterations, right? Initially, it was the where -- why aren't they disclosing everything. Then let's not forget July, four months ago, both Kash Patel and Pam Bondi endorsed a memo that said nothing to see here.
COOPER: Right.
HONIG: No further cases to be brought, moving along.
COOPER: Right.
HONIG: Now, they're on the -- all the way to the other side again.
COOPER: And the only thing that's changed, I mean there was no point in having an investigation months ago.
HONIG: Right.
COOPER: -- which was clearly something the president wanted. And then all of a sudden, the president just recently says -- sends her a very public message saying there should be an investigation on these Democrats, Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, and other, Reid Hoffman. And now, it seems like that will be, perhaps if they're going to have some recent to block a release, that would be the reason.
HONIG: That's sort of the paradox of it, by the way. If they are actually doing what the law says and blocking out information on ongoing criminal investigations, then the information they'll be blocking is information on if they're investigating Bill Clinton or Larry Summers. That should be the stuff that should be redacted out. But there's the clip today where someone asked Pam Bondi, what's with the sudden turnaround from four months ago when you said nothing to see here to now, yes sir, Mr. President, we're turning it all over. And she said, sort of tersely, new information.
COOPER: Right.
HONIG: Count me skeptical of that. I mean, these cases have been going on for decades. The victims have come forward, they have spoken years ago. I am suspicious of this claim that something brand new came along.
COOPER: It seems like the new information is, A, the president telling her --
HONIG: Right, right.
COOPER: -- to launch this. And also, the information that came out that House Democrats released saying, some of these emails, which is the reason we've now heard about Larry Summers and the Bill Clinton references.
HONIG: Exactly. Which are entirely political factors. They're not new investigative information. It's not something new. It's not as if there was some previously unknown victim.
COOPER: They had access to -- the government had access to those email themselves.
HONIG: 100 percent. Yeah. From day one -- from the -- and I do want to make this point because I've been asked this quite a bit. Can people still realistically be charged? Because it all happened so long ago. And the answer is yes. If you look at federal law, there's actually -- and Ghislaine Maxwell actually appealed on this basis. She said, well, the conduct that was alleged against me was back from the 1990s. I got charged in 2020. That's too late.
And the Court of Appeals Second Circuit said, no, there's essentially no statute of limitations. So if they can show that somebody was involved in interstate movement of a minor for sex, that person can still be charged. I think that's probably what the victims most care about at this point.
COOPER: Elie Honig, thanks very much.
HONIG: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Coming up next, my exclusive conversation with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, the first since she's announced she's retiring. The only woman so far to hold that title, Speaker of the House. More from her in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:53]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you very much. And tonight, I have the high privilege and distinct honor of my own as the first president to begin the State of the Union message with these words, "Madam Speaker."
(CROWD CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
BUSH: Congratulations, Madam Speaker. Congratulations.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President George W. Bush acknowledging the historic moment that he, Nancy Pelosi, the Congress and country were sharing that night in January of 2007. Funeral services will be held tomorrow for Vice President Dick Cheney, who sat on the dais there with Speaker Pelosi that night. She recently announced she's retiring next year, leaving a far different Congress and far different Washington than the one she arrived to in 1987. I talked to her earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: This is your first interview since you've announced that you'll be retiring at the end of your term. Why go now?
PELOSI: Why did I retire?
COOPER: Yeah.
PELOSI: Well, I've been eager to sort of go into another phase of life. For a while, I thought Hillary Clinton was going to win in 2016 and the Affordable Care Act would be intact and our country would be in great hands. She was so qualified, and then that didn't happen. So I had to stay to make the fight. And now, we're making the fight again to protect healthcare, which is of course one of my flagship issues in the Congress of the United States.
So my timing here was attached to my mission here. It isn't attached to what I want other people to do, it's what my purpose is here. Other people have to make up their own minds about how long they stay and when they go. And I wish them well on that.
COOPER: One of the things you said recently in an interview, you said that President Trump was a vile creature, the worst thing on the face of the Earth. Do you think he's different now than he was in his first term in terms of his abilities, his leadership?
[20:50:00]
PELOSI: By the way I said that as a euphemism; I could have done much worse.
(LAUGH)
COOPER: You could have done worse? You could have said worse?
(LAUGH)
PELOSI: Yes. Yeah.
COOPER: Do you want -- is there other adjectives you'd rather use?
PELOSI: No. I want to talk about my House -- the House Democrats and how we're going to win and what's there.
COOPER: But just in terms of what you are racing against, I mean, and I know you haven't spoken to him in a long time.
PELOSI: No.
COOPER: Do you think he's a different leader than he was back then in the first term?
PELOSI: I think he is, but I think more dangerously. He is surrounded by much worse people than he was before. There was no -- some -- there was some check on him before, but I don't see that now. I think the people that he has appointed are probably the worst cabinet in history. But apart from that, apart from that, of that they -- they are employees, it's not about what they think. It's about what he thinks and that's it.
COOPER: In most administrations, president would take pains to say the Department of Justice is not my Department of Justice, it's the Department of Justice. Do you feel like those norms have evaporated?
PELOSI: I think the whole world thinks that, don't you? I mean, because they have. And this is so sad because, again, with liberty and justice for all pledged to the flag, and that's what our country is about. When you look at the experience that we're going through and you see that due process, forget about it, right? Independent judiciary, that's not what they believe in. And the Justice Department to be an arm of -- political arm of the White House is really not what our founders had in mind in that oath of office that we take the pledge to protect the constitution of the United States.
COOPER: Yesterday, Mohammed Bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, was welcomed with great fanfare at the White House. There was a big dinner. What did you think of that?
PELOSI: Well, I think that our country has to deal with people that we may not respect their values and the rest. I think that what has happened to Khashoggi was shameful beyond words. And OK, so that's what this Crown Prince did. I'm more concerned about what the president did. I absolve him of it. It's OK with me.
COOPER: He said things happen.
PELOSI: Things happen, things happen. So, they are who they are. In our interest, our national security interest, there is judgments made. Do you talk to Putin? Do you talk to Xi? Do you talk to whomever it is, and even though we don't have shared values. But to say things happen, that was too much. But let's not talk about him because we are talking about the future. We're talking about the future. What comes next?
COOPER: And for you, the issues to run on our affordability. Just what we saw in the most recent election --
PELOSI: Yeah.
COOPER: The candidates who talked --
PELOSI: Affordability.
COOPER: Affordability?
PELOSI: Yeah.
COOPER: One of the first things when you were elected, you were 47- years-old in 1987, AIDS was death sentence.
PELOSI: Yeah.
COOPER: You spent a lot of time visiting hospitals, holding people's hand. You lost a lot of friends. You were able to raise huge amounts of money and get government resources. Are you concerned about where this administration is on global funding for HIV AIDS? Do you worry some of the advances are going to go backwards?
PELOSI: No, I'm very worried about that. And I would think that many more people would be. I believe that the best dollar the federal government spends is dollar investment in scientific research. The biblical power to cure, the biblical power to cure, and to do that in a way that takes advantage of such intellectual -- so many intellectual resources in our country. To cut that off is shameful -- is shameful. And look at the effect that it has on not just HIV AIDS, but every other diagnosis you can name.
COOPER: Former First Lady Michelle Obama said in a recent event that America isn't ready for a woman president. She said there's a lot of men who do not feel like they can be led by a woman. Do you agree with her?
PELOSI: Well, I hope -- I mean, I respect her and I know that view is one that we all are saddened by, but I think we have to change. The fact is that, I've heard every excuse in the book, like I'm not sure a woman could be Commander in Chief. Well, why not? Well, I've served in the military.
[20:55:00]
Well, OK, and so do women serve in the military. So I do think -- I think it's hard, Anderson, I always thought we would have a woman president long before we had a woman speaker of the House. I didn't set out to be speaker.
COOPER: Really? You thought there would be a woman president before speaker of the House. Why?
PELOSI: That's because I thought the American people were much more ready for a woman president. Just the thought of it, it's just so exciting. And the message it sends to the world, faster than there would be a woman speaker that has (ph) this place, I mean it's shall we say --
(LAUGH)
COOPER: Which --
PELOSI: -- male dominated for hundreds of years. And so when I ran for leadership, they said, who said she could run? Oh, poor babies. I'm not waiting for you to tell me I can run. But you know that, that, and so it -- there's a pecking order here of men, we're going to be this, that, and the other thing for a long time to come. Still exists really on the Republican side. But, so that's why I thought it's not going to happen here, but it will happen outside. But it hasn't.
Now, people say to me, kids say to me, students they say, it's nice you were speaker, but I'm going to be president. I said, well, I certainly hope so.
COOPER: I just want to quickly run through a couple of major events and get your quick take on it. Becoming first woman speaker of the house, 2007.
PELOSI: Pretty exciting, I have to say.
COOPER: Pretty exciting.
(LAUGH)
PELOSI: But I'll tell you this. When I finished the first two terms, I remembered, I mean, I was writing some notes that night to people and I thought, you know, I never really got into the (inaudible) of being speaker. I was just always working, working, working. And so, I see some of the men who have the job and they really liked the job. But -- COOPER: For you, it was about results.
PELOSI: It was all about results.
COOPER: Passing Obamacare.
PELOSI: Oh, Obamacare. That was the thrill of it all. I mean, for a hundred years.
COOPER: Was that your top accomplishment, do you think?
PELOSI: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Bringing healthcare to tens of millions of people, yes, that would be, not the legislation, but the impact of it.
COOPER: January 6th, obviously.
PELOSI: Oh, January 6th. That has to be one of the saddest days in American history.
COOPER: Do you think the efforts to rewrite what happened on January 6th in the eyes of history will be successful?
PELOSI: I hope not. I think that what we did with the January 6th Committee, that was -- it was about what happened, what are the facts of that day? And the facts of that day were that a president of the United States incited an insurrection and assaulting police officers and the rest, and insulting the people who make the Capitol so beautiful, threatening members of Congress. They were going to put a bullet in my f word head and we're going to hang the vice president of the United States. How could they? How can they think that they -- that history will think of them as anything other than the thugs that they were, and are?
COOPER: And just finally, what do you think is the greatest threat facing the United States today?
PELOSI: The greatest threat, I think as with everything, apathy -- apathy. People have to understand what is that threat, what the threat is, and what their responsibility is.
COOPER: It feels like a lot of people feel like observers, like they are just watching this as opposed to engaged and participants.
PELOSI: Well, I think that -- I think that the greatness of our country is that so many people think it is strong enough to withstand even what's there now. I said -- I thought we could withstand one term. I don't know that we can withstand two terms unless we win the House next time.
COOPER: You really think that the stakes are that high?
PELOSI: I think the stakes are that high.
COOPER: Why do you think, I mean, if Democrats do gain control of the House -- PELOSI: Yeah.
COOPER: Why would -- why would that be so important in terms of altering the course of the next -- the remaining years of this administration?
PELOSI: When Democrats win the House, not if. We won't be able to achieve a lot because we will not have a signature, but we're able to save the country from a lot of the damage that is --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: The Democrat should be able to be more what? Obstructionist to or stopping --
PELOSI: It's not obstructionist. It's on our oath of office. And by the way -- by the way, in a way that, again, is in keeping with the rules of the House, the, constitution of the United States, that these are all being violated now, you understand that.
COOPER: So if Democrats retake the House, you're saying Congress would actually live up to its legislative role?
PELOSI: Yes, of course, which we are not doing now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, I continue my conversation with Speaker Pelosi in the National Statuary Hall in the Capitol. We'll bring you more of that this week. Also, one more piece of Breaking News tonight. Harvard School paper, The Crimson, now reporting that former University President, Larry Summers, has stepped aside. --
