Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Tennessee Special Election Puts Both Parties On Edge; Growing Concern On Capitol Hill About Second Strike On Boat; Polls Close In Special Election For Tennessee Congressional Seat; Senate Intel Committee Leaders To Meet With Admiral Bradley Thursday; Trump Says He And Hegseth Didn't Know About Second Strike On Boat. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 02, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And then, we're also streaming every night, now, this is new on CNN All Access on the CNN App.
We hope you'll join us for some or all of that, and AC360 starts now.
[20:00:25]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And on 360, polls have just closed in a key special election that could say a lot about Democrat's chances in the midterms. We've got results as they come in over the course of this hour.
Plus, President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth speak out on the second strike of an alleged drug boat off Venezuela that reportedly killed two survivors clinging to the boat. This as more Republicans demand answers about what Hegseth knew.
And a blistering verbal attack from the President against Somali immigrants in America, saying he doesn't want them in the country, more on that.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. All eyes on Tennessee this hour where the polls have just closed in what in theory should not be a tight election, but what is nonetheless turned out to be much more competitive than expected and a potential bellwether with national implications.
Now, normally an off-year race to fill a congressional vacancy, particularly in a reliably red state, would not draw so much attention. But in the wake of last month's Democratic victories in the Virginia and New Jersey gubernatorial races and the New York City mayoral race, Republicans are looking to head off any notion that President Trump's messaging, particularly on affordability, is depressing GOP turnout, while energizing progressives and center left moderates.
Here's the President earlier today at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And watch today where they have a race going on right now in Tennessee and this woman goes affordability, affordability. They're the ones who caused the problem. The prices were way high, we're bringing the prices down but they're like scam artists. You know, they're conned -- I call them con men and women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the two frontrunners in tonight's race are Republican, Matt Van Epps, who's a West Point graduate and former Army helicopter pilot and a Democratic State Representative Aftyn Behn. They are vying to replace former GOP Congressman Mark Green, who resigned over the summer.
I want to get right to CNN's John King at the magic wall in Washington. So, John, as we mentioned, the polls just closed in Tennessee. What should we be looking for tonight?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, as we speak, we may see the maps start to fill in, because Tennessee does tend to count pretty fast, and there are some early votes that they can count and release once the polls close. So, we'll see if during this conversation a bit later, we actually get some votes.
What are we looking for? Look, as you noted, this is an overwhelmingly Republican district that we're here talking about this tonight tells you Democrats think there's something in the water, not just here, but nationally. They hope to win, but they're hoping even if they don't win, they keep it close, that, that sends a warning sign to Washington Republicans and House Republicans across the country.
What are we looking for? Well, there are more than a dozen counties in this district, part of Davidson County. That's Nashville, it is in this district. It is the only blue county that is in this district. So, if you are Aftyn Behn and you want to have any hope tonight, you need to run it up here in Nashville and then hope as you get into the suburbs and then into the more rural areas, you can hold your own.
I'll show you in just a second what happened in the last election. But this is Kentucky, this is Alabama. So, from Nashville out to rural Tennessee, we're not normally having conversations about this part of the country with a Democrat involved in the conversation.
Just a year ago, Mark Greene won re-election to this House seat by 22 points. He resigned in July, that's why we're having this special election, 22 points for him. Donald Trump, 22 points for him. That's what tends to happen in a Presidential year. The President carries his party, especially Trump, when it comes to rural America.
So, when you come back to where we are now, what the Democrats are hoping you alluded to New Jersey, you alluded to Virginia, court races in Pennsylvania, legislative races in Mississippi, other races in Georgia. When Trump's not on the ballot, Democrats perform a lot better. And Republicans, some of them don't turn out. That's what Democrats are hoping for tonight.
Again, they hope for an earthquake. That would be a win. But if not, they still hope for a message. If Behn can keep it, say, within five or six points, there will be more Republicans in Washington thinking, Trump won my district by 10 points. Trump won my district by 15 points. Am I in trouble too? That's the message Democrats hope to send tonight.
COOPER: It could impact President Trump's plans to push redistricting?
KING: There are some Tennessee Republicans who are saying, we told you so, because there used to be one Democratic district right here in Nashville, and all of the other districts were ruby red around here. What they did when they redrew the lines is they took a piece of Nashville and put it in this district, a piece in Nashville, and put it in this district, a piece in Nashville, and put it over here, essentially diluting the Democrats to create more Republican districts. But they're not they're red, but they're not as ruby red as they used to be.
So, there are some Republicans who say if Aftyn Behn comes really close or in their scenario, God forbid, for the Republicans, she pull this off tonight, that maybe if you're a legislator in Indiana or somewhere else in America, and Donald Trump is telling you to redraw the lines, you might want to say, no, sir.
COOPER: All right, John King, thanks. We'll check in with you throughout the hour and throughout the night.
Joining me now is former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod. CNN "NewsNight" anchor Abby Phillip; Republican strategist, former Trump campaign adviser David Urban and CNN political director David Chalian. So, David Axelrod, how seriously should Democrats be looking at this tonight?
[20:05:18]
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think both parties are going to be looking very closely. Democrats have something unusual, a bounce in their step since November 4th, those elections, as John said, not just in the major races, but in local races all over the country, there were upsets and Democrats winning seats that were long held by Republicans.
And so, they want a continuation of this. They want to see a strong, showing love, a victory. But if it's not an earthquake, even tremors have an impact nationally. And so, they want that momentum to continue. They'll be watching this closely.
COOPER: And Abby, obviously, the Democratic candidate has been hammering on affordability.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR OF "NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP": Yes, and I think it would be a mistake for Republicans to say this is just because Trump is not on the ballot, because I think Trump is also part of the problem in this particular instance. Americans in the polls say that they blame him for the state of the economy. They're not happy with how he's running the government in Washington. Even some of his key issues, like immigration, he has reduced his favorability on some of those issues. So, I think there's across the board dissatisfaction, not just with
the fact that Trump is not on the ballot and he's not bringing out his voters, but also because of how Trump is governing in this moment and how Republicans in Congress are governing. That's the real red flag for Republicans, because even if Trump goes into these districts, he called in to this Tennessee district.
He and his allies, his son, Don, Jr. and others have been pushing really hard. They're doing it, but it seems like they're concerned that it's not having an impact. And I'm not sure that even the appearance of Trump on the campaign trail for Republicans, whether he's on the ballot or off the ballot, is going to help them with the fundamental problem, which is, do Americans think that their lives are getting better? And I think in this case, they don't.
AXELROD: I'll tell you what --
COOPER: And by the way, just obviously a couple thousand votes coming in, obviously we don't know exactly where and the state they're from in.
AXELROD: I'll tell you what is going to not encourage Republicans is the President doing what he did today, saying that, you know, this affordability thing is a scam. One of the tells that it's no scam is that their candidate in this district ran on the very same themes that Democrats have been running on about, you know, about costs, about health care, promising to bring those things down. It's not a scam, it's the lives that people are leading. And when the President does what he did today and when he appears to be in denial, he just digs a bigger hole for all Republicans.
COOPER: David Urban, I want to play what the President said than ask you about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There's this fake narrative that the Democrats talk about affordability. They just say the word. It doesn't mean anything to anybody. The word affordability is a Democrat scam. They say it and then they go on to the next subject and everyone thinks, oh, they have lower prices.
Affordability is a hoax that was started by Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So if it's a scam, would you advise Republicans not to run on it in the midterms next year?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So, Anderson, a couple quick points. I lived in the district we're talking about tonight when I was stationed at Fort Campbell. The former Congressman there, Mark Green is my West Point classmate, Matt Van Epps is the guy who runs the West Point guy, I know, very capable candidate. The woman he's running against who lives in Nashville, says she hates country music, the home of country music. That's how tough this race is for Republicans.
So, I think the President better listen to the coalition of Black, Brown, White working class Americans that voted for him. Those are the people that voted for the President, the people who affordability is a concern for them. When they go to the gas pump and they take out that wad of bills in their pocket, and they have to make a decision on how much they're going to put in their tank and how much they're going to have for dinner tonight, those are real world decisions being made by the people who voted for this President.
And so, you may not like the word, but the concept is true and rings true and it should be a concern.
Now listen, the President is doing things to drive that down. This administration gas prices are way down. In 2026, you're going to have no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime. All those things will have an impact on the economy moving forward. But right now, at this point in time, affordability matters to lots of people.
COOPER: David Chalian, according to a recent CBS News/YouGov poll, I think it was 58 percent of respondents said prices had actually been going up in the past few weeks, only 11 percent said they'd been going down. I feel like this is a conversation we were having when President Biden was in office, and this was being used, you know, and it was badly damaging him.
[20:10:03]
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Exactly, I mean, Biden and his team, Anderson, as you recall, they were trying to point to every economic data point and indicator they could. The problem is, even if they were accurately representing the data, it wasn't reflected in what people were feeling in their lives. This is the problem here, is that Donald Trump goes out there and says affordability is a con job. It's not anything but, our own Alayna Treene reported from White House sources, from Presidential aides just three weeks ago, that they are trying to convince him that you can't convince the public if they don't feel what they feel when it comes to their pocketbook.
They talk about getting him out there and doing a domestic travel tour and talking about the economy. But the President today didn't seem that he was all that eager and desirous of doing that. That is going to create tension within his own party, because, as Abby was saying, this isn't just a problem, that Donald Trump's not on the ballot. That poll that you just said from CBS News.
The other thing that Americans say is, it's Donald Trump's policies that are not improving the economy, that are actually making the economy tougher for him. So the public sees a nexus, Anderson, and Donald Trump is going to be at odds with his own party because he's not on the ballot next year, but they are.
COOPER: Yes, I want to check in with John King just at the map -- John. KING: Very quick point about the early results. And before I do it, I
want to say again, they're very, very, very early results. So let's not get to the finish line here. But what we're seeing in these very early results is reminiscent of what we saw in New Jersey and what we saw in Virginia that led to those big Democratic margins, huge Democratic margins in the governor's races. Look, Matt Van Epps is ahead. If you're a Republican, you're saying, why is he on the T.V.? We're up 65 to 33, if you round that, it's a blowout.
I just want to go through some of these small rural counties. Stewart County right up here, this is the Kentucky border. He's getting 67 percent, you say that's a blowout. Let's go back just a year to the House race, Mark Green got 79 percent there. So the Democrat right now, were not final results yet. But in the early results underperforming, right.
So, let's come down one. First, let's stick with where we are in 2025. Let's come back to this and come down. Let's just pick this one here. Benton County, Matt Van Epps, currently running early voting could be part of this. They could be Democratic votes. But it's about half the vote. They say 73 percent. You say wow, that's a blowout. Yes, it's a blowout. But 79 percent, 80 percent, if you round that up a year ago.
I don't want to waste your time going through every one of these rural counties. But I can tell you in every one of these rural counties so far, that's what's happening. Matt Van Epps is running well ahead, but he's running behind the Republican who won that seat a year ago and behind Donald Trump, who swept that district a year ago. So just a nugget to watch as we go forward.
COOPER: All right, John King, Abby, David cubed, please stick around. We'll continue to keep an eye on the election results coming in from Tennessee.
Also, new questions tonight, including from Republicans about what President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth knew about a secondary strike on that alleged drug boat in the waters off Venezuela.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They asked me a question about the second strike, I don't know about the second strike. I don't know anything about people.
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I watched that first strike live. As you can imagine, at the Department of War, we got a lot of things to do. So, I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours, whatever, I moved on to my next meeting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:36]
COOPER: Looking at real-time results coming in from the special election in Tennessee Tonight, 57 percent right now for the Republican candidate, 41 percent for the Democratic candidate. Again, still early it could, we emphasize, could have nationwide repercussions for President Trump and his allies as well as for Democrats, the surprisingly competitive race is to fill the vacancy in Tennessee's Seventh Congressional District, which is a seat the GOP has held for more than 40 years.
Now, the major candidates are Democrat, Aftyn Behn and Republican, Matt Van Epps. We're going to keep the vote tallies up in the bottom of your screen throughout the hours, they're updated in real time.
I want to go to CNN's Eva McKend, who's covering the election from Behn headquarters in Nashville tonight. So, what's the latest? What are you hearing tonight from voters?
EVA MCKEND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, people are excited and surprised to see their district receive this level of attention --
COOPER: We're not hearing, you know, so we'll get back to you, oh, okay.
MCKEND: Oh, I guess he can't hear me. Can you hear me now again?
COOPER: So, you know, we are hearing you on this line, you continue.
MCKEND: Okay, well, I have to tell you that people are excited and surprised here in this district to see their community get this level of attention. And it is because Aftyn Behn has tapped into something here on an affordability message that has made Democrats excited and feel as though that they can win in this district.
Meanwhile, when you speak to Republicans, they say, Matt Van Epps, with his military background, the Trump endorsement really fashioning himself as an America First conservative better fits the character of this district. But it is quite surprising.
You know, I spoke to Speaker Johnson and I asked him, why have Republicans have had to work so hard in a community where President Donald Trump won by more than 20 points? He brushed this off. He said he would be campaigning out here for Van Epps anyway. But it does speak volumes that they are spending millions of dollars, Republicans, to hold on to this seat.
Now, that money has largely been spent on ads attacking Aftyn Behn. Take a listen to what the voters think about this in this district.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BORDONARO, NASHVILLE REPUBLICAN VOTER: I probably wouldn't have voted if it wasn't for all the calls and texts I got from her campaign, but that really kind of pushed me to vote against her. I kind of started seeing more comments and things like that that I didn't really agree with. So, it really motivated me to come make sure I supported the other candidate.
CHERYL HOLT, NASHVILLE DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I'm a Democrat, and I feel like we need to do something. And, you know, typically in Nashville, we don't have a chance to win many Democratic elections. So, I felt the need to come and vote today.
I have a lot of friends in Pennsylvania, and they they've encouraged me to come out and do this. You know, I said, I'll definitely be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKEND: And, Anderson, I'll end with this. You know, how Democrats run future contests is also on the ballot tonight because their logic previously is to run candidates in red districts like this one that are more centrist, socially conservative Democrats. But Aftyn Behn is not that. She is a progressive organizer, a former social worker, and she's unapologetic about that.
And so, depending on how she does tonight, it could flip the script on how Democrats run these races -- Anderson.
[20:20:44]
COOPER: Eva McKend, thanks very much.
We're going to be continuing to follow the results of the Tennessee special election throughout the hour ahead.
In other news, President Trump said today the United States will soon begin a campaign to target and strike alleged drug traffickers inside Venezuela that would escalate his campaign to attack and blow up boats allegedly carrying illicit drugs to the U.S.
Now, there's a growing bipartisan concern on Capitol Hill about a second strike on a vessel in early September that reportedly killed two people who survived the initial attack.
Lawmakers have been questioning whether the U.S. military committed a war crime. During today's Cabinet meeting. Both the President and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, appeared to try and duck responsibility and said the decision was made by a military commander.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As far as the attack is concerned. I didn't -- you know, I still haven't gotten a lot of information because I rely on Pete, but to me it was an attack. It wasn't one strike, two strikes, three strikes. Somebody asked me a question about the second strike. I didn't know about the second strike. I didn't know anything about people. I wasn't involved in it. I knew they took out a boat.
But I would say this, they had a strike. I hear the gentleman that was in charge of that is extraordinary, extraordinary personnel.
Pete, speak about him.
HEGSETH: I watched that first strike live. As you can imagine, at the Department of War, we got a lot of things to do. So, I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours or whatever, where all the sensitive site exploitation digitally occurs. So, I moved on to my next meeting. A couple of hours later, I learned
that that commander had made the -- which he had the complete authority to do. And by the way, Admiral Bradley made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat.
He sunk the boat, sunk the boat, and eliminated the threat. And it was the right call, we have his back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Hegseth also said he did not personally see any survivors after watching the first strike on the vessel.
Back with David Axelrod, Abby Phillip, David Urban and David Chalian. David Urban, you're a veteran bronze star recipient and attorney. Does the legality of the strike hinge on who directed the actual order for the second strike, as opposed to any other statement that was made prior to?
URBAN: Yes, you know, Anderson, there was a really well done piece this morning in "The New York Times" that that spells out that tick- tock of what went down, when and how this all kind of transpired much more clearly than I've ever seen articulated to date. And it provides, I think a lot more, will provide a lot more comfort for the Trump administration and Secretary Hegseth moving forward, especially in hearings.
It appears from "The New York Times'" reporting that the strike went down just as Secretary Hegseth accounts. The boat was blown up. The thing sitting there smoldering on fire, he leaves the room, there's some wreckage. It is unclear whether anybody saw any survivors or not. The wreckage was still afloat, still determined to be a hazard. And so, another strike was ordered to sink the boat. I'm not quite sure there was a strike order to kill people, more, though, than sink the actual boat. So, I think it's a lot to digest.
I think the Senate is going to have some Oversight hearings on it. Secretary Hegseth is going to the Hill this week. He's going to be asked about it but I -- from "The New York Times" reporting, things seeing a little bit more clear to me today than they did yesterday.
COOPER: David Axelrod, I mean, President Obama came under criticism on drone strikes while he was in office. How do you see this -- how did this administration --
AXELROD: Look, there was an awful lot of discussion between lawyers and The White House and The Pentagon about what was -- and the CIA about what was appropriate and legal. There were civilian casualties at times, but there was a great deal of effort and time placed on being precise, identifying the people who you are going after.
We have no idea who these people are. We don't know who those guys who were hanging off the boat who were the victims of the second strike, and that's what makes this so different. We also don't really understand the legal justification for it. Members of the Congress have seen it. They're not allowed to speak about it, but the public is sort of in the dark. So, there's an opacity to this that makes it different.
COOPER: Although, I mean, I was talking to Admiral Stavridis last night who was saying, look, there will certainly be a chain of evidence, Abby.
PHILLIP: Right.
COOPER: There's a lot of eyes on this. A lot of people watching this. There's a lot of video images. You know, they only released the first strike. Obviously, when President Trump put this video out in the first place.
[20:25:26]
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, there is information that they could release about this and there probably will end up being an investigation because it's clear that both Democrats and Republicans are uncomfortable by this. But there's also a hint that even the Trump administration, the Trump Pentagon, didn't repeat this pattern because, remember, there was another strike where there were, in fact, survivors.
Those individuals were taken aboard and then released back to their home countries. So, what seemed to be a somewhat similar situation, survivors from an initial strike in that second case, they weren't struck again. And it makes me wonder if there was a conversation in The Pentagon about what happened in this first instance.
The Trump administration has dug itself into a bit of a hole because by having Karoline Leavitt, the Press Secretary, come out and then say, we believe he was in his legal authority, this Admiral, this legal authority to carry out this strike. They're endorsing it. They're endorsing it before there's been an investigation into the legality of it. And I think that puts them in a bit of a box.
AXELROD: Look, I think that the -- it was an absolute sign of what they think privately about this, that the President was so insistent on that he wouldn't have done it.
PHILLIP: Yes, that Hegseth wasn't responsible for it.
AXELROD: He's -- they're walking away from the policy and they're assigning responsibility. They're defending him, but they're assigning responsibility to the Admiral for the decision. The question is, what would -- you know, we have this long talk about journalism all the time. What would have happened if this weren't reported?
They didn't self-report this. They didn't say a mistake was made. It was only after it was reported that the country learned about it.
COOPER: Yes, everybody stay with us.
Up next, a former Navy Reserve intelligence officer who's now a member of the House, is calling on Secretary to resign. Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander joins me ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:58]
COOPER: We are monitoring results in the Tennessee special election. We stress could have repercussions for President Trump and his allies, as well as for Democrats.
I want to go back to John King and the magic wall. John, what more are we learning from Tennessee?
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, I want to walk through the early results, and again, I want to emphasize early. Anyone who's been with us in past elections, sometimes you have early results that say one thing. By the time you get to 100 percent or 90 percent, it's very different.
We have about 25 percent of the vote counted so far. That's been holding for a bit, which suggests to you, and we know from our reporting, most of this is early voting. A little more restrictive in Tennessee. It's not anyone can vote early, but most of this is early voting.
Now, if you're the Republicans, you say, wow, Matt Van Epps is up by quite a bit there, 16 points, if you look at it. Yes, he is at the moment, but but if you look at this early voting, no guarantee it holds up. There are some troubling signs for the Republican candidate.
Let's start here in this blue county, Montgomery County. At the moment, Aftyn Behn leading just barely by 2 points right there. Donald Trump carried this county a little over a year ago by 19 points. And the Democrat is ahead right now. So that tells you the Republican House candidate is underperforming his predecessor in the House and underperforming Donald Trump in this county big time, at least in the early results.
And that is the case, Anderson, in every one of these counties where we have votes so far. Yes, the Republican is leading the race right now, but he is significantly underperforming Mark Green, the former Republican incumbent who resigned in July. Donald Trump, a couple of examples.
Let's just come out here to Humphreys County. Again, if you're watching at home, you say, wow, that's a big race, 34-63, right? So 43-53-63, that's almost 20 points, right? So you think that's a big win. Donald Trump won this county by 56 points a little over a year ago.
The Republican today is winning it, but by nowhere near as close. Move over here, Benton County, the western part of the district. Again, you look at that margin, you think that's huge, right? So 26, 36-46, 56- 66, that's 40-plus points, right? Donald Trump won it by 65, a little more than a year ago.
So that doesn't mean Matt Van Epps in the end is not going to win this race. We don't know that yet. We're still waiting for votes. We have nothing from Davidson County. That is Nashville. Not only is it the most votes in the district, the most populous area of the district, it is the only Democratic area of the district historically.
So we're waiting for votes here. This is absolutely key to Aftyn Behn. Not only the margin, but the turnout, the raw turnouts. She needs a ton of votes from here. And when you come just south, this is Williamson County, south of Nashville. Suburban here, more rural as you go out here.
No votes there as well. This is a very affluent county. Affluent voters have. Traditionally Republican here, but if you look in recent years across the country, affluent voters, more educated voters have rallied to the Democrats, especially when they are mad at Donald Trump.
So we have a long way to go. We're up -- whoa, we're up to 37 percent. This is what happens when you're watching live on Election Night. We just got our first votes in. The Democrat has taken a lead.
Again, the Republican was ahead. Now the Democrat's ahead. We're still counting. But we're up to just shy of 40 percent of the vote. How did that happen? Well, it happened because, as I said, this is where Aftyn Behn has to run it up. Not just a margin like that, 85 to 15.
If you round those, that's about half the vote. It's the raw numbers here as well. We've gone through this throughout the Trump presidency.
[20:35:04]
Republicans tend to win big in rural areas. The Democrats have to run it up in an urban center. Just to go back and check here, she's at 85 percent right now. About half of the vote in. If you go back to the race two years ago, it was 67 percent for the Democratic candidate here, right.
The Democrats won this district by 45 points in the 2024 presidential election. Aftyn Behn at the moment is winning it by much more than that. So, Anderson, just to put a wrap on it, ask anything you want. In Davidson County, the Democratic center of this district, the only real Democratic area of this district in Nashville, she is overperforming so far significantly. That's a good sign for her.
And the Republican candidate in every other county is underperforming quite significantly where Donald Trump was and his Republican predecessor was just a little more than a year ago. We're not at the final numbers yet, but when you look at it early on, it tells you there's a lot of Democratic energy here without a doubt.
Can they win? We'll see. Can they get close? I can tell you this. This was 22 points for Donald Trump a year ago. It's not going to be 22 points at the end of tonight.
COOPER: All right. John, we'll check back with you shortly.
Up next, Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander on the situation off the coast of Venezuela.
Plus, more from today's Cabinet meeting. Another example of the President using heated language and going on the attack. And later, what happened today when Russian leader Vladimir Putin met with U.S. negotiator Steve Witkoff and the President's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, for nearly five hours for talks in Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:04]
COOPER: The Republican and Democratic leaders of the Senate Intelligence Committee say they'll meet on Thursday with Admiral Frank Mitch Bradley, the military commander who President Trump and Defense Secretary Hegseth say gave the order in September to strike a suspected drug boat a second time.
Now, the lawmakers want to hear his version of the attack. Both the President and Hegseth insist they did not know about the second strike, and Hegseth says he was no longer watching the operation after seeing the first hit, though neither the President nor the Secretary have criticized the admiral's order. Quite the opposite, in fact.
But Republican Senator Rand Paul is directly calling out the Defense Secretary for his handling of the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: In this sense, it looks to me like they're trying to pin the blame on somebody else and not them. There's a very distinct statement was said on Sunday. Secretary Hegseth said he had no knowledge of this and it did not happen. It was fake news. It didn't happen.
And then the next day from the podium with the White House, they're saying it did happen. So either he was lying to us on Sunday or he's incompetent and didn't know it had happened. Do we think there's any chance that on Sunday the Secretary of the Defense did not know there had been a second strike?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander of New Hampshire is calling on Hegseth to resign. She says he's unfit to serve as Defense Secretary. She's a former Navy Reserve Intelligence Officer, one of six Democrats who made a video last month urging members of the military -- or informing members of the military to disobey or they can disobey illegal orders. President Trump accused the lawmakers of sedition.
Congresswoman Goodlander joins me now. Great to have you on the program. What do you make of Secretary of Defense's Hegseth claim he wasn't in the room and didn't see the second strike? And does that absolve him of any responsibility here?
REP. MAGGIE GOODLANDER (D-NH): Well, thanks for having me, Anderson. Look, this most recent episode fits into a well-established pattern of behavior from Secretary Hegseth. He has shown in so many critical moments since he -- before he got on the job and since he's been on the job that he lacks the judgment, he lacks the experience, he lacks the qualities of leadership that we need in the Secretary of Defense for the United States of America. It's one of the most important jobs in the world. And he has shown again and again that he is not fit for this job.
COOPER: It's interesting that, you know, the Secretary of Defense has repeatedly said, look, we, you know, we will -- to commanders, we have your back, we're, you know, we're very, you know, forward-leaning. It's the Department of War now.
You know, we will have your back for decisions you make. In his public statement, he's appraised Admiral Bradley and says, you know, he has his full support, and yet at the same time he has made sure to pin the second strike decision solely on him.
GOODLANDER: Look, you know, he's unwilling to take responsibility. He's unwilling to come clean and to be forthright. And we've seen this in his testimony before our own committee, Anderson, where I asked Secretary Hegseth a very simple question that has only one answer.
I asked him if he would commit to abiding by a decision of the United States Supreme Court. He refused to commit to doing so. It shows you his unwillingness to uphold the most basic responsibilities of a person who takes an oath to the United States Constitution.
COOPER: The -- both the Republican chairman and the Democratic ranking member of the House Foreign Services Committee, which you're a member, have called for a full accounting of the boat strike. What specific questions do you want Secretary Hegseth and Admiral Bradley to answer?
And I talked to Admiral Stavridis, former Retired Admiral Stavridis, last night, who said that there would be a plethora of data points and information and, you know, a chain of e-mails and eyes on this thing. There must be -- are you confident that if there's an investigation, that there is enough evidence out there that the truth will get out?
GOODLANDER: Anderson, I am confident that on a bipartisan basis, we will be relentless in the United States Congress in making sure that we have all of the facts and that we get to the bottom of what's happened here. And that means collecting all the relevant information, all the documentary evidence, and all the testimony that we need to really get to the bottom of what happened here.
[20:45:20]
The facts matter, and the law matters too. You know, I served for years at the Department of Justice, and when you're pursuing the truth, both matter in equal measure. And I can tell you that on a bipartisan basis, we've got concern about how the Secretary of Defense has conducted himself, and we have a genuine commitment to get to the bottom of what happened here.
COOPER: Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander, it's great to have you on. Thank you so much.
GOODLANDER: Thank you, Anderson. COOPER: We continue to monitor the real-time election results coming from that special election in Tennessee tonight that's being watched closely by national political leaders, including President Trump right now. Wow, the Democratic candidate right now is in the lead, 52 percent to 46 percent.
The race is unusually competitive. This is rarely seen before. Right now, the separation looks to be at about some -- a little under 4,000 votes or so. A reliably conservative state, Tennessee is, where the particular congressional seat that's up for grabs has been held by Republicans for more than 40 years.
I just want to bring back the panel and start with David Urban, who's been getting information from his contacts in the state. David, what are you hearing?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So I was texting with both Matt Van Epps, as well as my former classmate and former member there, Congressman Mark Green. Mark Green said to tell John King he could call it tonight, Van Epps by 6:00. We can all go home.
COOPER: OK. What makes him so confident?
URBAN: You know, he knows the district. He's been there for a while. He's, you know, traveled around with Epps, campaigned with Epps. Matt Epps is a great candidate. And early voting has not gone as well as I think Democrats had hoped. And as some of these rural counties come in, I think the numbers will rack up in Matt's favor.
It is, Anderson, after all, an R plus 22 district. So --
COOPER: Right.
URBAN: -- plus six, plus seven, plus eight is, I think, where most people expected it to kind of settle out at the end of the day. And don't forget, as Axe and Abby and David will tell you, Democrats have spent, you know, millions and millions. They've thrown the kitchen sink at this race.
They're not going to come back in the fall of '26 and try to take it again. So this will kind of nail it down and they'll have to move on someplace else.
COOPER: Let's go to John King and just look at the map and see where the numbers are. John? And to David's point.
KING: Yes. And so, I'm sorry, David. I can't take the advice. I get their point, but I can't take their advice and call it now. We're going to hang out for a while and actually count votes. It's an interesting thing in a democracy.
But I do get their point, Anderson, and let's walk through it a little bit. I was texting with some Republicans and also a couple of Democrats in the state. Even the Democrats privately concede they still think they're going to lose this race, even though Aftyn Behn is ahead right now. But, but they're a lot less certain of that than they were an hour or three ago because of what they're seeing.
David mentioned the rural counties. So let me just go to a few of them. Yes, if you look at this, this is 99 percent now, though, David Urban, right? So your Republican friends are telling you there's more votes coming in. Number one, turnout is way down from the Presidential year.
That's not a surprise. That's not a surprise. But you look at that and you think, OK, she's at 23, he's at 75, right? So that's 52 points. You think that's a blowout. Donald Trump won that district by 70 points just over a year ago. So the Republican tonight is underperforming both the Republican congressman and the Republican President a little more than a year ago.
Decatur County. See, David, that's up to 99 percent again. This is why Democrats are saying we're probably going to lose. But this actually looks very interesting because, again, it's a blowout there. But most of the votes are in. And you think --- so 79 to 19. Yes, but Donald Trump won this county by 69 points just more than a year ago.
So you see that, Republican running it up in rural areas, but underperforming Donald Trump significantly, underperforming Mark Green, the former Republican congressman, significantly, so far. We'll see how it ends up.
Then you come here, Davidson County. This is a blowout at the moment. It's 50 percent of the vote. What Aftyn Behn needs, Anderson, is not only to maintain a huge blowout margin like that, but for raw votes. This will not be anywhere like a presidential year.
She needs Democrats to turn out in the city. She needs more Election Day votes to come in here in Davidson County to help her offset what Mr. Urban's talking about, the final count in some of these rural areas.
Here's our wild card. Two wild cards. One, Montgomery County, right up on the Kentucky border. Donald Trump carried this county by 18 points, 19 points if you round it up. Right now, it's a pretty even split, but the Democrat is winning this county. That's what we saw some in Virginia and some in New Jersey, where Democrats going into strong Trump counties and being competitive or eking them out.
We're only at 49 percent of the vote. We know that's early vote. It's been stuck there for a while. Let's see. If this one stays blue as we get into 60 percent, 70 percent of the vote, we might change the tenor of this conversation. And then we come down here.
[20:50:01]
The second largest vote area of the state is Williamson County, and we still have nothing. This is a very affluent county. It's a ruby-red Republican county in Tennessee. But we do know in recent years more affluent voters, more educated voters, sometimes have a suburban revolt against Donald Trump and swing back the other way.
So we need to see what happens in Williamson County. Donald Trump won it by 30 points. Mark Green won it by about 30 points a little over a year ago. We have nothing so far. And it's got a lot of votes there.
And I just want to come back and make the point again about Davidson County. This is -- look at this district now. This is tonight. This is two years ago -- one year ago, excuse me. That's the congressional race. That's the presidential race, where you have Nashville and then a sea of red, right?
So you come back to tonight. You have Nashville, a little bit of blue, and we're waiting on here. So the Democrat is ahead. We got about 45 percent of the vote counted so far. Again, I get the Republican math that when those final rural votes come in, they tend to eke it out. But this is nowhere.
This is not the blowout. It was a year ago.
URBAN: Yes.
KING: Not even close.
URBAN: Yes.
KING: This is going to be a competitive race to the end.
URBAN: Anderson, I was just going to say, John and I were talking about this -- real quickly. John and I were talking about this. Can you -- Democrats tomorrow morning may be kicking themselves and wish they had ran a more Spanberger-type Democrat in this race than the liberal that they chose.
KING: Look, everyone's going to be kicking themselves tomorrow. If this race is within five or six points --
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
KING: -- forgive me, there's going to be a lot of Republican bedwetting because there are going to be Republicans who -- Donald Trump won this district by 22 points a year ago. Imagine if you're a Republican in a district that looks anything like this that Donald Trump won by 10 or 12 or 15. You're thinking, oh, there's something in the water.
And so the Republicans will have that debate. And yes, Democrats, just like they did after the last elections, you had, you know, the Democratic socialists win in New York City, but more moderate candidates win in New Jersey and in Virginia. That's what these special elections are about, not only potentially changing the balance of power by one seat in the House of Representatives, but this is a preview.
These are auditions for 2026, which candidates are running strongest --
COOPER: Yes.
KING: -- in which places.
COOPER: David Chalian, I mean, how concerned should Republicans be?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, they may not necessarily have to be concerned about losing the seat, although as you're watching the returns come in, I'm sure some are concerned and would like to see the Republican actually overtake the Democrat in the vote count here.
But to John's point, and we should underscore, you know, when David Urban says, you just talked to Mark Green and he's going to call it at six points, our plus six, sure, that's a victory. Mike Johnson gets the added seat for a Republican that he gets a little bit of a cushion with Anderson.
But in a Trump plus 22 district, winning by six points is still going to be a big alarm bell because this is not isolated to Tennessee.
KING: Right.
CHALIAN: We've seen this pattern not just in New Jersey and Virginia, but in every House special election this year. Go back to April in Florida, two ruby red Republican districts. We saw this story of Democratic overperformance.
So what you're looking at in this off year, when the electorate is made up of people who are the most dialed in, the most committed, the most enthusiastic, it is an electorate that is pushing back --
COOPER: Yes.
CHALIAN: -- against Donald Trump. And Donald Trump's numbers have been going down all year. So Republicans will see this final margin and they will say, we have an enormous amount of work to do if we're going to hang on to the House majority next year.
COOPER: All right, everyone stick around. We'll have more on this. We're going to continue to follow the votes as they come in. More on the other side of the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:42]
COOPER: We continue to monitor early results in the Tennessee special election, which is a lot closer than history would suggest it should be. I want to go back to John King at the magic wall. So Republican Matt Van Epps is up by nearly 300 votes now.
KING: Right. He was losing when you went to break. He was trailing as we went to break. What happened, right, before the break? We were saying, when will we get votes from Williamson County? This is a population center south of Nashville.
The most of the votes are in that blue area, Nashville, Davidson County, right above. But we finally got some votes from Williamson County. And that's when Van Epps took the lead. And you can see why. He's winning by a little bit more than 10 points in this county right now and about half of the votes are in.
So the point David Urban was making earlier, you know, the red areas are filling in red, with the one exception up here at the top of the state, Montgomery County. We need to keep an eye on this. Aftyn Behn continues to hold a narrow lead there.
But again, I want to make a point here. The Republican is ahead. If you're looking at the map now, you can easily get the Republican to victory as more votes come in in the rural area.
Behn's biggest hope, really only hope, is that the second half of the vote in Davidson County, which is Nashville, is overwhelming. Not just the margin. She needs to keep that margin. But she needs raw votes, a raw vote lead over Van Epps and Davidson County, Nashville and the suburbs, to offset these rural areas. But to the point about what will the message be out of this.
Look, you do not win when you lose. So if the Republicans win the seat, they win the seat. And Democrats are not going to win. But, Anderson, Van Epps is ahead because of Williamson County. But he's leading in this county by just 10 points.
I'm going to emphasize this again and again and again, Donald Trump won that county by 30 points a little more than a year ago. The Republican incumbent congressman won that county by 30 points a little more than a year ago. The Republican candidate tonight is right now leading it by 10 points. That is what will cause jitters across Republican areas.
This is a very affluent county. The median income is about $130,000 a year. That is way above the national average. These are traditional Republican voters. Not a place where you think affordability would be a huge issue.
So what's happening? Every Democrat who lives here is coming out. And a lot of Republicans are staying home or voting for the Democrat. And that is a problem for the party going forward. Because that's what we saw in New Jersey, that's what we saw in Virginia, that's what we saw in Georgia, that's what we saw in Mississippi, that's what we saw in the Pennsylvania judicial races.
And even if the Republicans hold on here and get their 4, 5 or 6-point victory in this seat, they won it by 22 a year ago. And there are a lot of trouble signs even beneath the red on those counties.
COOPER: And just very briefly, what's the percentage of vote in right now?
KING: The percentage of vote in is about 56 percent. And so, again, then you go county by county through it. Only about half in Davidson County of the vote is in. Behn has to run it up here.
COOPER: Right.
KING: It's her only hope, really, to run it up as you go. And then some of these other counties, it varies from county to county, Anderson. This one's 41 --
COOPER: All right.
KING: -- but you get out here, it's in the 90s.
COOPER: All right, John King, thanks very much.
Be sure to join Abby for NewsNight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern. The news continues right now. "The Source" with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
