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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Stumps In Pennsylvania To Sell Affordability Message; Bipartisan Calls Grow For Pentagon To Release Boat Strike Video; Interview With Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ); Judge Says Maxwell Court Docs Can Be Unsealed, Citing New Epstein Law; Mace Voices Frustration With House GOP Leaders In NY Times Op-Ed; Australia Bans School Media For Kids Under 16; Police Bodycam Video Shows Moment Police Confront Mangione. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 09, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes.
DAVID RICKS, CEO, ELI LILLY: But what's important is this factory will make products like Zepbound, which we have today but also the new pill, which can expand access for so many people. Some people don't want the jab, as you said in that reporting and that can open up access. But also it can make them abundant.
BURNETT: All right, David Ricks, thank you very much, appreciate your time.
RICKS: Thanks a lot Erin, good to see you.
BURNETT: All right, thanks so much to all of you for joining us. "AC360" starts now.
[20:00:31]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: The President tries selling his record on affordability in swing state Pennsylvania. But with midterms, now, less than a year away, will voters buy it at any price?
Also tonight, the moment Luigi Mangione was caught captured on police camera video. It serves as a year to the day after his arrest. You see and hear what they asked him, what he said that brought the manhunt to an end.
And later, for the first time anywhere a country makes popular social media sites off limits to kids. The question is, could Australia's new law work here too? Kara Swisher joins us with that.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. Tonight, with inflation unchanged from the day he took office and jobless numbers ticking up, the President is speaking in Eastern Pennsylvania delivering a sales pitch on the economy.
Now, his challenge finding buyers for the message that he's bringing down prices and creating more jobs, because according to the University of Michigan, consumer sentiment survey, Americans expect the inflation rate to rise by more than a third over the next year. And in recent Fox News polling, 76 percent of voters said they viewed the economy negatively.
That's what he's up against right now, as he arrived tonight in a key part of what could be a crucial state in next year's midterms. Here's some of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: One year ago, the King of Saudi Arabia said it. He said, sir, one year ago you were a dead country, dead. They were focusing on China. They were looking for, you know who's next in line, frankly, and he's a good man And the Emir of Qatar said it. UAE said it, the big company -- the big smart country said it. We were a dead country one year ago. We were dead as a doornail. We were going down the tubes and now we're the hottest country anywhere in the world.
And I have no higher priority than making America affordable again. That's what we're going to do. And again, they caused a high prices and we're bringing them down. It's a simple message. Lower prices bigger paychecks. They have a new word. You know they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability.
So, they look at the camera and they say this election is all about affordability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, he also ran through a virtual campaign trail, greatest hits, talking about transgender issues, the size of his election victories, including, he said in 2020, he talked about immigrants, windmills, the auto pan, the sleepy Joe Biden saying, "to me, he's a sleepy son of a b*tch. But in any event, he was already in sales mode on the economy. Here's what he said to POLITICO's Dasha Burns in a conversation that aired earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DASHA BURNS, POLITICO, JOURNALIST: I wonder what grade you would give--
TRUMP: A+.
BURNS: A+.
TRUMP: A+++++.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There's kind of a sales pitch the President is well acquainted with, dating back to his days as a real estate developer. But even as he touts the economy as being the hottest in the world and boasting that prices have fallen on his watch, he's also been openly suggesting that high prices aren't a real problem. Or even if they are, they're not really his problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: The word affordability is a con job by the Democrats.
Affordability is a hoax that was started by Democrats.
The word affordability is a Democrat scam. There's this fake narrative that the Democrats talk about affordability.
They use the word Affordability, it's a Democrat hoax.
You can call it affordability or anything you want, but the Democrats caused the affordability problem, and we're the ones that are fixing it.
The Democrats love to say affordability, but then they never talk about it. They're the ones that gave us the high prices. I'm the one that's bringing them down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, keeping them honest, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the inflation rate was three percent when he took office in January. In the most recent figures from September, it's still at three percent.
As for groceries, while certain individual items have fallen in price, food prices overall were rising at a 2.5 percent rate back in January. They're now going up at a considerably faster 3.1 percent clip, and it's something voters see on a daily basis. As CNN's John King found out when he recently talked to Pennsylvanians not far from where the President is tonight, people like this three-time Trump voter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband lost all of his overtime. My kids daycare went up. Can't afford the cost of food using credit cards for everyday expenses. No money left after their bills are paid. Pretty much just a whole bunch of financial mess.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We changed Presidents at the beginning of the year.
JONES: We did.
KING: And the guy who moved into The White House said that he was going to fix it. Several times, he said it would be easy.
JONES: Absolutely.
KING: Has he fixed it?
JONES: Absolutely not. I'm definitely waiting for him to fix it.
KING: Jones is a three-time Trump voter, but she says he has simply failed to keep his promise to lower the cost of living.
JONES: I'm very let down by that. Very, very let down because I feel like it's only gotten worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:15]
COOPER: Joining me now, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod, and Republican Strategist and former Trump campaign adviser David Urban.
Axelrod, will this speech be enough to change perception?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I'll tell you what, if I were his advisers, his political advisers, the people who actually go out and poll and do these things, I would be cringing watching this whole day unfold, because this was an exercise in denial. You know what, his plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, that's people looking at their bills. That's how they feel.
You cannot jawbone people into feeling what their life experience is telling them isn't true. And you know, I was in the Obama White House during the great recession. We got there at the peak of it, and we thought we were making progress and, you know, but every time you try to claim progress, you just -- people resented it because they were living the reality of the crisis. And they didn't feel as if we were coming out of it. And that's, you know, he is completely digging a hole.
The other people who should be worried are Republican members of Congress who have to run next year. Some of your old colleagues, because this is doing them no good.
COOPER: He also -- Congressman, began his big economic speech reminiscing about election victory last year, saving Christmas and attacking the Biden administration over transgender stuff and the border.
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's the greatest hits, right? This was his campaign speech over and over again. It's what he defaults to. If I was still a Republican in Congress, first off, I would be glad that he's out because they have been begging for him to hit the road as he promised to try to sell this, "Big, Beautiful Bill".
And so, this is really first ever since July to do that. But he was way not on message for what they need. I mean, again, calling affordability a hoax is like telling people that what they feel they're not feeling. And look, you know, inflation is generally very hard because prices never come down. You just reduce the rate they increase. And so, you have to from a political perspective, to David's point, be on message over and over and over letting people know you're tackling that. And that's not what he did. He fought the culture war battles over and over.
COOPER: David Urban, you know Pennsylvania very well. It's an important state to you also care a lot about Florida. We just learned for the time in nearly 30 years, a Democrat has been elected mayor of Miami. Is that a warning sign for Republicans?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, I'm more concerned about Pennsylvania than the mayor of Miami. I'm more concerned about what people are feeling in their pocketbooks across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, across Michigan, Ohio --
COOPER: Do you think the President saying, A+++ on the economy was smart.
URBAN: No, listen, I think the President should say, listen, I feel your pain, we got to make it better. To Adam's point and David's point, you can't' tell people what they're feeling isn't real. When people go to the pump, they take out a $20.00 bill, they make a decision. How much do I put in the tank? How much do I save for my kid's dinner tonight, right.
And so, they're making those decisions every day. People feel that in their pocketbooks. You can't tell them it's not real when it is real. And so, the numbers may say one thing. The economy may be trending in the right direction, but people want results immediately. They're not satisfied to sit around and wait for another, you know, six months, eight months, ten months. The President needs to be out there. The President, the Cabinet, members of Congress should be out there telling people what they're going to do to make things more affordable.
And you're going to see this, this is coming up now in the Congress with the health care debate, right. And what are they going to do with these Obamacare subsidies? People's health care costs are going up. What are Republicans going to do to try to help bend that cost curve and make that more affordable?
So, this narrative isn't going away. Democrats are smart to seize upon it and Republicans best get on offense quickly.
COOPER: Not only is this narrative not going away, it is a narrative that is just a repetition from what it was under Biden, except it was that the Democrats and you have an article out in the "Atlantic" today, and the headline is Trump is making the same mistake as Biden.
AXELROD: Yes, no, I think this is one of the things that's so odd about this because Donald Trump mostly, mostly got elected because people had no confidence in the economic policy of Biden. They felt like they were feeling the sting of inflation then and the main offer was that he was going to fix it, Trump. But Biden dug a big hole for himself with Bidenomics. We remember Bidenomics the worst marketing idea in history.
Don't put your name on things on something everybody hates. And he went out there and he tried to tell people that our economy is really great, that were doing better than all the other G7 nations and so on. And they're like, I can't pay my bills. What are you talking about? And it really hurt him, and its hurting Donald Trump right now. And he did not make it better.
COOPER: And Congressman, do you think blaming Biden still is effective?
[20:10:10]
KINZINGER: No, I mean no. It's been -- he's been in office almost a year like the first few months, sure. But now I mean, he's definitely had enough time to implement an entire tariff policy. He's certainly had enough time to get into negotiations with China. It's not like they haven't had time to do something. So, to blame Biden, I mean, maybe it works for the moment still, but he needs to -- he's running out of runway on that.
The other thing is they're in a bubble. This is the other thing, Donald Trump is in a bubble. He is surrounded by people that tell him how great he is. And his entire time on social media is on Truth Social, which is an echo chamber for him. So, from his perspective, having people that are unwilling to tell you that people are hurting, I think just, you know, from a raw strategy perspective is probably a pretty bad thing.
COOPER: David Urban, does the affordability is a hoax thing work? I mean, you know, he said it in front of that crowd and people behind him were like nodding, yes, affordability is ridiculous. But for the average person, that seems like what Democrats are running on successfully.
URBAN: Yes, listen, Axe's article, I've not read it. But, you know, I like the headline, President Trump is making the same mistake as President Biden did, in denying that there isn't an issue with the economy. The Trump administration as, David, correctly points out, is in place largely to the extent they had the border, but also to make the economy better, right.
This is the, you know, the Carville line that will live forever. It's the economy, stupid. It's what people care about the most. Every poll that's taken, every election, the economy, pocketbook issues, always like one or two and in every poll. I'm sure that will be the case in the midterms.
And what this President and this administration need to do, they need to get on the road. They need to spell out with very specific, you know, easy terms. Here are the things were going to do. Each Cabinet Secretary, here's what we're doing. You know, here's what we're doing at Commerce. Here's we're doing in Interior. Here's were doing at Treasury. Here's the things we are doing to make your life better in the short term and the long term.
You need to do that if you're going to try to, you know, break history and keep these -- Democrats from taking these House seats in the midterms. Otherwise, this President is going to suffer the fate as every other President in the midterms, and we're going to lose a lot of House seats.
Adam Kinzinger is going to get a lot of colleagues joining him.
AXELROD: What was missing here and what was surprising with Biden was his calling card in politics was empathy. But he could not acknowledge the pain that people were feeling because he didn't want to. He didn't want to acknowledge that the problem hadn't been addressed.
Trump not known for empathy, but the first thing he has to do is acknowledge the fact that, yes, this is a problem. It's not a hoax, it's a reality in people's lives, and he seems incapable of doing that.
COOPER: Yes, Adam Kinzinger, thank you, David, David, thank you.
Coming up, with pressure growing to release all the video from September's double tap boat strike, top House and Senate members get a new classified briefing. What we are learning about that briefing and also reaction from Senator Mark Kelly tonight, one of the six Democrats who put out that video reminding service members they did not have to obey unlawful orders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Every boat strike, every opportunity they try to get these strikes on T.V. for the American public to see. And as soon as there's something that's questionable, you know, possibly questionable orders and decision making, then they want to keep that from the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later, new police body camera video of police confronting fugitive alleged CEO killer, Luigi Mangione and the latest from his trial.
[20:18:02]
COOPER: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and other Trump administration officials were on Capitol Hill today to hold a briefing with a group of lawmakers known as the gang of eight. They discussed the controversial double strike in September of an alleged drug trafficking boat in the Caribbean, in which two people were killed in the second attack on the vessel.
Now, lawmakers from both parties are demanding that Hegseth release the full video of the incident to Congress. Here's what Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said after he left the meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It was a very unsatisfying briefing. I asked Secretary Hegseth, Secretary of Defense Hegseth, would he let every member of Congress see the unedited videos of the September 2nd strike? His answer, we have to study it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, last week, President Trump said he released the full video. But then yesterday in the Oval Office, he tried to claim he never said that. When pressed, he finally said, it's up to Hegseth to decide what to release. Now, just before air time, I spoke with Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. He sits on both the Intelligence and Armed Services Committees but did not attend today's briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Senator Kelly, what's your reaction to Secretary Hegseth? , according to Senator Schumer, dragging his feet on releasing the video of that second boat strike, saying that the Pentagon still needs to, "study it".
KELLY: You know, I imagine, Anderson, they've studied it enough already. I can't imagine a scenario where Pete Hegseth and other members of the Department of Defense haven't looked at this video in detail. And by the way, they released all the other videos, right. Every boat strike, every opportunity. They try to get these strikes on T.V. for the American public to see. And as soon as there's something that's questionable, you know, possibly questionable orders and decision making, then they want to keep that from the American people.
COOPER: I've talked several times to a former Army Captain and JAG officer named Margaret Donovan, and she says she doesn't think the second strike was a war crime because the U.S. does not officially fighting a war in the Caribbean. Instead, she told me last night, it is a murder under federal law, in her legal opinion, I'm wondering what you make of that distinction. And if it underscores, in your view, the reason why the President is generally expected to seek congressional authority for the use of military force.
[20:20:16]
KELLY: Well, that's one of the reasons. And, you know, certainly a President, when we're under threat, when there's a National Security issue, has the right and the ability to deploy the U.S. military to protect the homeland. We get that. But this wasn't about that, these routes through the Caribbean are mostly bringing cocaine to other islands and then on to Europe.
If the issue is fentanyl, then the approach needs to be at the border. That's where most of the fentanyl comes into the United States. And when you consider the amount of money were spending to bring a battle group to the Caribbean, those resources put at the real problem of fentanyl smuggling could have a huge impact. That's where the focus should be.
COOPER: As most people know, Secretary Hegseth has threatened to recall you to active duty and court martial you for saying in that video, alongside other lawmakers that U.S. troops to not follow illegal orders. CNN's KFILEs has uncovered new video clips from 2016, when Pete Hegseth, a Fox News contributor at the time, criticized then candidate Trump for comments he made on the campaign trail. And I just want to play this for you to get your response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Military is not going to follow illegal orders. And so, the Trump campaign was forced to change their position and say, we're going to try to change the law so that the military can operate within the law. That's a tall order also.
Here's the problem with Trump. He says, go ahead and kill the families. Go ahead and torture. Go ahead and go further than waterboarding. What happens when people follow those orders or don't follow them? It's not clear that Donald Trump will have their back. Donald Trump is oftentimes about Donald Trump. And so, if you're not changing the law and you're just saying it, you create even more ambiguity for warfighters who already in a tough spot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, even if he had their back, they'd be in trouble. I mean, you tell me, I had a guy, I had a dad, stop me--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm wondering how you square those comments with what Hegseth has been saying recently. And have you heard anything more from the Pentagon about being recalled or, you know, court martialed?
KELLY: Well, first of all, I haven't heard anything from the Pentagon. I saw a tweet from Pete Hegseth, that is it. No notification from the Navy, just what they have said publicly. So, nobody has reached out to me or my office from the Department of Defense on this.
You know, on the video, I mean, can you be more hypocritical? I mean, is it possible? I don't think so. I mean, on one hand, you have Pete Hegseth saying not exactly the exact same thing because he's even using Donald Trump's name in this. We were talking about just the administration and in generalities, like were concerned, you know, for a number of reasons, because Pete Hegseth is unqualified for this job and who this President is and the things he has said in the past.
But I don't think you can be more hypocritical than the two of these guys. I mean, Donald Trump should know at this point who he is and the risks that he presents. And I'm just looking out for members of the military. I served in the Navy for 25 years. I've been in these situations. I've sunk two ships myself. I'm worried about these service members.
So, we were just sending a truthful message, you know, just comply with the law. And then Donald Trump wants to kill me, hang me and Hegseth, you know, says he's going to prosecute me under the uniform code of military justice for saying what is in the UCMJ. But by the way, also a thing that he said repeatedly. I mean, you can't, Anderson, you can't make this stuff up.
A year ago, Pam Bondi, you know, sent a brief to the Supreme Court and basically stated the exact same thing that I said in that video.
COOPER: Senator Mark Kelly, thanks for your time.
KELLY: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Well, next, a judge has granted the Justice Department access to now documents on Ghislaine Maxwell, the convicted accomplice of Jeffrey Epstein.
Plus, new security footage showing Congresswoman Nancy Mace's airport argument is released, as well as the conclusions of a police investigation into allegations about them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Did I drop an F bomb? I hope I did. Did I call them incompetent? If I didn't, they absolutely earned it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:50]
COOPER: There was a major ruling today regarding the evidence against Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. It came from a federal judge here in New York who granted the Justice Department's request to unseal records from Maxwell's investigation in criminal prosecution.
Now, she was sentenced to 20 years in prison for sex trafficking of a minor and other charges back in 2021. The trove of documents includes grand jury transcripts, financial records, travel documents, notes from victim interviews obtained during the investigation.
For more on what we may learn from their release, I want to bring in Julie K. Brown, award winning investigative reporter for "The Miami Herald". Her work was vital in exposing the extent of Epstein's sex trafficking ring. She's also the author of "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story". Also with us, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.
So just, Elie, can you explain what we can and cannot expect to learn from these?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, were going to see something we don't ordinarily see, because usually grand jury records are, by their nature, confidential. However, the judge today said that because of the law, the Epstein Files Transparency Act, we now have to make these public.
Two categories to watch for: One, there's going to be grand jury testimony, but we already know from the papers that's just basically an FBI agent telling us things we already know that are already in the indictments.
However, grand jury materials also includes anything that prosecutors obtained through a subpoena. Subpoenas technically come from the grand jury. So, that would include phone records, bank records, travel records, geolocation records, you name it. That I think is going to be new and really interesting, and we should see it by December 19th given the deadline.
[20:30:21]
COOPER: And Julie, I mean, of the outstanding questions you have about the overarching Epstein case, do you expect any of them to be answered by any of these documents?
JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MIAMI HERALD: I think there's going to be some new revelations here. In addition to the items that Elie mentioned, as I understand it, even the -- some of the Florida material is going to be in this trove that's going to be released and we might find some more information out about exactly why he was given such a lenient plea deal.
So it, you know, it will be interesting to see because the -- we don't really know the whole scope of material that they used as part of this case against Maxwell. It appears that there might be more information beyond the grand jury documents.
COOPER: And Julie, I mean, you've said before that you want to see Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy report. The first time he told me that, it was news to me that that wasn't already out. Presumably that will not come out --
BROWN: Right.
COOPER: -- in any Maxwell case documents. Who has it? Who would determine whether it gets released or not?
BROWN: Well, the Bureau of Prisons really did the investigation into it, but the Epstein Transparency Act, as I understand it anyway, will include those documents, more documents about, you know, the investigation or so-called investigation into his demise, his death.
So we'll see how in-depth that was. I mean, I think what --
COOPER: You don't think it was very in-depth?
BROWN: -- his family -- no, I'm sure it wasn't. It really wasn't. They never treated it like it was a crime scene to begin with or a suspicious death to begin with. And anyone who does crime, you know, 101 knows that when you have a death like that of a high-profile person, you have to treat it as a potentially suspicious death from the beginning. Otherwise, you contaminate evidence you don't collect or investigate properly.
COOPER: And Elie, you've made the point before that, I mean, the DOJ can basically refuse to release anything it wants.
HONIG: Yes, so we need to understand, when Donald Trump signed this Epstein Files Release Act two weeks ago, the White House issued an official statement. Here's what it says, word for word. The law requires the Attorney General to release all files, all files and records in possession of DOJ. That's false, because there are two huge exceptions in the law.
One, for ongoing criminal investigations. We know that about three weeks ago, Pam Bondi announced, now we're going to be investigating all these Democrats upon Donald Trump's call. So she can withhold whatever she wants under that.
And separately, there's an exception for any documents that might relate to foreign policy or national security. Now, how could that relate? Well, it's possible she looked at this and says, if there's information that might reflect poorly on leaders, elected officials, maybe that would undermine our standing when it comes to foreign policy, to international relations, especially if they relate to the commander-in-chief and chief diplomat.
But the point is, it's going to be up to Pam Bondi, and we're not going to know what she chooses not to show us. So --
COOPER: She doesn't have to say what she's not showing.
HONIG: Right. In some legal settings, you have to say, well, here's some documents, maybe tell Congress or tell the other party, here's some general categories I withheld. She does not have to do that. So we're all essentially at the whim of Pam Bondi here, with respect to what we see and don't see.
COOPER: And, Julie, how confident are you, I mean, in terms of -- or what are you most looking for in terms of what is going to be released?
BROWN: I'm really looking for how many victims really told the FBI what was going on. I mean, I believe that there probably were a lot of victims that came forward in the years since --
COOPER: Yes.
BROWN: -- he was -- he had his plea deal in Florida, and that they, you know, told the FBI. I know that there were witnesses that told the FBI and tried to lead them down the path to understand --
COOPER: Yes.
BROWN: -- this sex trafficking operation.
COOPER: Julie K. Brown, thank you so much. Elie Honig as well.
Tonight, for the first time, we are seeing security footage showing South Carolina Congresswoman and gubernatorial candidate Nancy Mace in a heated conversation with the TSA agent back in late October. The video is part of a new internal investigation released by the Charleston Airport Police.
Now, you may remember Mace got upset after officers were late to escort her through the terminal. Now, investigators say it all started with a, quote, "minor miscommunication" that escalated into profanity- laced comments directed at law enforcement. Tom Foreman has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "I'm sick of your shit. I'm tired of having to wait. You guys are always f-ing late. This is f-ing ridiculous." The newly obtained Charleston Airport investigation report says Republican Congress member Nancy Mace repeatedly insulted security officers when her car was not met and she was not immediately escorted to her plane in late October.
REP. NANCY MACE (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Did I drop an F-bomb? I hope I did. Did I call them incompetent? If I didn't, they absolutely earned it.
[20:35:09]
FOREMAN (voice-over): Mace's office called the report a full exoneration, even though it says she blew a minor miscommunication into a spectacle.
MACE: You're giving other cops a bad name and I'm coming for you, so you need to know that.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But Mace is grabbing headlines for more than that. In a New York Times opinion piece this week, she ripped her own party for avoiding votes on popular ideas, such as term limits and banning stock trades by lawmakers.
She insisted Democrat Nancy Pelosi was a more effective House speaker than any Republican this century, including current Speaker Mike Johnson, and she added a warning to her party. "If we fail to pass legislation that permanently secures the border, addresses the affordability crisis, improves health care, and restores law and order, we will lose this majority and we will deserve it."
MACE: How many more decades are going to go on where we elect people to do a job and they become corrupt?
FOREMAN: Mace, who is running for governor of South Carolina, is among a small cadre of Republican congresswomen who have strongly supported the MAGA movement.
MACE: I support President Trump.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But who have also pushed back on some of Trump's apparent wishes, for example, calling for full release of the files around sexual predator and one time Trump friend, the late Jeffrey Epstein.
It's all been enough to make at least one of her staffers quit and accuse her of turning her back on Trump, while another associate suggested she is having a breakdown. Mace rejects it all.
MACE: Being anti-corruption, anti-rape, anti-murder, anti-illegal. That makes me crazy, sign me up.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Much more ahead tonight, including Kara Swisher on Australia's new law barring kids from 10 social media platforms. It's the first in the world. Could it also work here? Also, what new police bodycam video shows about the moment when officers confronted the man who identified himself as Mark Rosario, but was actually the fugitive alleged CEO killer Luigi Mangione. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:51]
COOPER: It's a new day in Australia for kids and social media. Starting right now, any of the following 10 platforms are off limits to anyone. They're under the age of 16. We're talking about Instagram, Facebook, Thread, Snapchat, YouTube, TikTok, Kick, Reddit, Twitch and X.
Under the new law, the world's first of its kind, those 10 need to show that they have taken, quote, "reasonable steps," unquote, to deactivate accounts. Accounts that are used by underage Australians and to prevent them from opening new ones. Now the onus is on the companies. Neither kids nor their parents would face any penalties for noncompliance.
I want to talk about it with Kara Swisher, CNN contributor, podcaster and author of "Burn Book: A Tech Love Story." Kara, what do you think?
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think, you know, it's a drastic measure, of course, and it's a very -- would be a very difficult thing to put in this country. But at this point, given the inability for these companies to regulate themselves, a lot of countries have had it like in terms of the effects on young men, young women and everything else.
And so in this case, you know, treating it like cigarettes or drinking or even driving or anything else that is unsafe for kids without the proper safety measures in place, you kind of have to -- this is where you get to at this point.
COOPER: Do you think 16 is the right kind of age requirement?
SWISHER: I do, I do. I think it's exactly right because the problem is a lot of these devices are so addictive and so necessary to have, especially even for adults. And you and I both know we're addicted to our phones. It's much more difficult with kids who are still forming opinions and everything else.
And so we do it with everything else. And it's very clear that when something's addictive, we usually tend to act on it as a society. And so I think of it, you know, many years ago, Mark Benioff called the social media companies cigarette companies. And I think that's probably the correct metaphor here. And other countries have just had it, especially because of the deleterious effect on their kids, on their mental health and all manner of things.
COOPER: I'm surprised that more schools and parents in the U.S. have not been just outright banning. I mean, a lot of schools will, you know, you have to keep in your locker. SWISHER: They have.
COOPER: You can't have it in schools. But it seems like there are a lot of parents out there who still kind of break that ban, give the kids a phone when they're at home.
SWISHER: They do. That's the problem. I think the problem is, Anderson, we're all addicted to these things. And for adults, they're necessary for your job. They're also full of information. There's so many good parts of these things.
But unfortunately, the way they're designed and the way they've been deployed, especially in social media, it's about keeping you on there and either doom scrolling or constantly be waiting to get to the bottom of which there is no bottom.
And I think the difficulty here is that these tech companies have long abrogated their responsibility the way other consumer companies have not or have been forced into, whether it's too much sugar. You know, you could just -- the metaphors for other products are the same.
And I think the difficulties here is they pretend it's all about free speech and the ability to communicate when, in fact, it is just like, I don't know, too much sugar or a dye that is bad for you in something. And so I think what's happened here is the inability in our country to regulate and do something about it has led other countries to say, you know, these are mostly American U.S. companies. That's enough of this.
[20:45:07]
And, by the way, schools are doing this. Schools are doing every school now that I know is discussing whether to remove phones altogether. The stuff at home, that's really hard to do. But definitely schools, that's the trend happening --
COOPER: It still feels late to me that school -- I mean, I'm kind of just aware more what's going on in schools because now I have my kids are going to school. But I'm stunned to see the older students -- you know, I drop off my kids in the morning -- to see the older students all like in a local, you know, coffee shop gathered around their phones, endlessly just scrolling --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- waiting, you know, for the last second until they actually --
SWISHER: Right.
COOPER: -- have to go into school.
SWISHER: Well, because it's addictive. You know, years ago, I've had lots of kids. I don't think your kids have phones yet. And if they are, I'm coming to your house and maybe --
COOPER: No. Of course not.
SWISHER: -- (INAUDIBLE) into that. But --
COOPER: They're watching TV from the 60s because the editing is slower, like they're not watching even fast like cartoons.
SWISHER: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And they're lucky because you're aware of these problems. But I think one of the issues with this is that these kids, once they get them away from them, the kids feel better, by the way. It's a really interesting trend in the schools that they've removed them from.
Initially, the kids have a problem with it, and some of them want to get right back to them right after school ends. But a lot of them feel a lot better because they can interact.
COOPER: And do you think the difficulty in the U.S. is pressure from social media companies? And obviously, they're cozying this with the current occupants of the White House?
SWISHER: Yes. Have you noticed they were in the front row at the inauguration? Have you noticed they're getting everything they want? They gave money to the ballroom.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: This is --
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: These companies are doing everything they can through money and means and lobbying to be telling us that they're not dangerous for our kids. And they are especially, you know, I'm on the -- you know, I talk a lot about chat bots and young people. Young people should not be using chat bots at all.
I mean, I can't believe we're even having this argument. And --
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: -- you know, I've interviewed the parents of kids who have killed themselves after these relationships. And to say they're not at least partially responsible is just not true. They are partially responsible because they design things that are not safe for our children.
And I think this is where it ends. You know, I do think it's a drastic thing to have to do, but it's because there hasn't been any regulation by our own politicians on these issues forever. Not once, not about privacy, not about everything.
COOPER: I've been interested in just how much watching, you know, on like ChatGPT, how much it continues to try to just engage with you as soon as it's done answering one thing. It's like, hey, do I'm going to answer that --
SWISHER: Sure.
COOPER: -- in a better way or a different way, or what else can I do for you? And there is this pull to it --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- of like to just stay on it.
SWISHER: Yes, it's trying to be pleasing to you because, you know, one of the favorite words of Silicon Valley people with me is seamless. They want everything to be seamless and frictionless or friendly, or they want to keep you there. And let me just tell you, it's all about money.
And Scott Galloway talks about this a lot. It's all about shareholders getting -- doing well because these people are on these things all the time. And so they'll do anything to keep you there, including pleasing you. And AI takes it up another notch. It just does. And you and I both can feel it when we use it ourselves.
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: I mean, everybody understands it. And parents really do now. And they -- I have to tell you, there's a movement to do something about it. And we have to be smart because a lot of this stuff is good, but we have to do something about it.
COOPER: Yes. Kara Swisher, thank you.
Tonight, for the first time, we are seeing police bodycam video of the moment that officers in Altoona, Pennsylvania approached Luigi Mangione, the young man charged in the murder of a health care executive in Manhattan. He was arrested one year ago today after the manager of McDonald's called 911 to report a suspicious person.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you're doing? Can you put your mask down real quick for me?
LUIGI MANGIONE: Yes, sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate it. Thank you. OK.
What's your name?
MANGIONE: Mark?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it?
MANGIONE: Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark?
MANGIONE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark what?
MANGIONE: Rosario.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rosario. Someone called they thought you were suspicious.
MANGIONE: I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have your ID on you?
MANGIONE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks. She thought you looked like someone -- feel free to (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The bodycam video was released during pretrial hearings in Manhattan, where Mangione's lawyers are trying to get evidence suppressed.
I'm join by John Miller, CNN Senior Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst. So we learned that the officers, they were confident that he was the suspect.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: You know, when they -- this is one year ago today.
COOPER: It's crazy.
MILLER: When they rolled up, they said, you know, these calls come in all the time. It's probably not the guy. He said, could you lower your mask? He said the minute he lowered his mask, I knew it was him.
You had Joe Detwiler, who's been on the job for a while, and then you had Tyler Frye, his partner, who's been on for six months with the Altoona Police Department, and you're watching him walk into the arrest of a of a of a career.
[20:50:05]
COOPER: Customers, though, were suspicious at McDonald's. He thought he was the suspect. How do people know to flag him?
MILLER: So the picture was everywhere.
COOPER: Right.
MILLER: Pictures, there was a picture of him in a Starbucks. There was a picture of him in a taxi, which just showed this much of his face --
COOPER: I don't know like full face image.
MILLER: No, but, you know, there were ones where the distinctive eyebrows stood out, and you know, there he was in the mask the same way was in the -- so two or three customers kind of talked to it. They finally got the manager to call the police, and she said, you know, it's not an emergency, but two or three of my customers think this is the guy and police rolled up.
COOPER: It's also interesting that authorities apparently found a note allegedly from Mangione telling himself to tweeze his eyebrows and that he had a tweezer.
MILLER: He had a list of things to do, and one of them was pluck eyebrows on the rest was, you know, kind of about travel routes and making his way west. But this has become a subject of big controversy in court because, you know, what we see is can you lower your mask and, you know, then two other officers arrive and then two more and a supervisor.
But what the defense is trying to do is saying once they separated him from his bag, you know, the officer safety issue of we need to go through that. What if he grabs it and pulls out a gun. Once they move the bag away, that wasn't an issue anymore, but they went through the bag and in there there's the notebook that has basically the letter, the manifesto, and it has the smoking gun that was --
COOPER: But can they go through -- I mean, are they allowed to just go through his bag if it's based on the safety concern?
MILLER: So, yes. If it's a safety concern, you can pat the suspect down. If he has access to a bag, you can look in the bag and eliminate, OK, there's no gun, there's no bomb here. The defense argument is, well, after they pushed the bag away from him and he didn't have access to it, could they still go through it?
And what the police officer who said, you know, on these videos was as she's going through the bag, somebody said, maybe we should get a warrant. And she said, I don't think we need a warrant is when you -- they're going to arrest him. He's given him a fake driver's license.
When you're searching that bag, when you arrest somebody, you're going to search the bag. You're going to inventory the property. You're going to write it all down. So when he gets out, you know, he gets back everything that was in the bag and so on.
So she says, I'm going through the bag incident to arrest. I'm not doing a search, but that's the legal contention. They'd love to get rid of the manifesto, which reads like a confession. They'd love to get rid of the smoking gun. They'd love to get rid of a lot of things.
COOPER: Yes.
MILLER: But the gun is found later when they do the inventory search. But they'd love to get rid of the things found before that.
COOPER: John Miller, thank you.
MILLER: Thanks.
COOPER: Coming up, a new episode of my podcast on grief, All There Is, comes out tonight. I'll give you a preview of my conversation with actor, director Ben Stiller, who talks about the loss of his parents in the process of going through all the things they left behind.
His parents were Jerry Stiller and Anne Meara, famous comedy duo. After their death, he, as I said, started going through their things, filming his journey and turned it into a documentary.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:43]
COOPER: Tonight another episode of my podcast All There Is has just been released. My guest this week is actor, writer and director Ben Stiller. His mom Anne Meara died in 2015. His dad Jerry Stiller in 2020. They were a famous comedy duo. And Ben has spent the last several years going through all the things that they left behind.
Here's part of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN STILLER, ACTOR AND DIRECTOR: I have these moments by myself where I try to connect with my parents a little bit.
COOPER: Do you feel them?
STILLER: I have --
COOPER: Do you feel anything?
STILLER: No, that's the issue.
COOPER: No, but I'm joking but look I'm saying -- I'm asking -- I'm saying this to somebody --
STILLER: Sometimes I do but a lot of times --
COOPER: I know it when I see it because I've spent my life not feeling it.
STILLER: Yes. Well, if you're like me it's like somebody's going through life you have to kind of like put up the deflector shields, right?
COOPER: Yes. Yes. No, I --
STILLER: Yes. But the problem is you get used to having them up and then when you let them down. But, yes, I've had these weird moments little spiritual kind of connection moments that I -- like, they sound so silly but like of a moment when you meet somebody or something and you feel like you're somehow connecting with your parent, have you ever had that?
COOPER: Yes.
STILLER: I was at West Point scouting for a movie, you know, West Point up the Hudson, and I knew my mom had gone to boarding school up there at a place called Lady Cliff Academy that was in Highland Falls New York. And I had never been able to find it.
And I was in the West Point visitor center and I asked somebody said, hey there's a place called Lady Cliff Academies and he said you're standing in it. This was Lady Cliff Academy West Point bought it a few years ago it's part of their --
COOPER: Wow.
STILLER: -- you know, their thing. And then this woman recognized me there and she came up to me and she was so happy to see me. She gave me this big hug, was just so excited, and I was in that place in that moment and I felt like I was somehow connecting with my mother in that moment.
Those types of things that happen every once in a while but then for me I can just like sort of sit with these images. I have like a screensaver on my computer of me and my mom when I was like nine years old and those are -- these are kind of touchstones where I can -- I feel OK kind of just like going there and opening up and letting down the shields and just trying to be with them, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can find the full episode at CNN.com/AllThereIs or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. You can also see my new streaming companion show All There Is Live every Thursday at 9:15 p.m. Eastern Time that's also at CNN.com/AllThereIs.
That's it for me. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow.
"The Source with Kaitlan Collins" starts now.
