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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Hollywood Mourns The Deaths Of Rob and Michelle Reiner; New FBI Description Of Brown Shooting Suspect 5'8" With Stocky Build; Fifteen Killed In Antisemitic "Act of Pure Evil" In Sydney; Manhunt Underway For Brown University Shooter; 2 Killed, 9 Hurt; FBI Offering $50,000 Reward For Information Leading To Shooter; Punchbowl News: DOD Says It Is "Escalating" Review Of Sen. Mark Kelly "To An Official Command Investigation"; Remembering Rob Reiner; 15 Killed In Attack Targeting Jews At Bondi Beach Hanukkah Event. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 15, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They did not believe at that time that the son had been radicalized or was part of a larger group and yet you have now the father and son, all of those weapons. That's one of the questions they're asking here.
Obviously, there's a lot of activity at this memorial and at another memorial where so many people were killed, including that ten-year-old girl, and of course, the hero, Erin, recovering in the hospital.
He needs several more surgeries, and a GoFundMe page has raised more than a million dollars to help in his recovery. Just incredible.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Truly incredible, that heroism. Thank you so much, Will Ripley, and thanks to all of you. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:33]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the sickening slaying of Rob and Michele Reiner. Their son Nick, now in custody and responsible, police say for their murders. And President Trump, he doubled down on his sickening response to an American family's tragedy.
Also tonight, with the Brown University shooter still at large, authorities put out new video from before the killings. New still images and a description providing the best picture yet of the man they say they're looking for someone they say should be considered armed and dangerous.
And later, the stories of heroism, horror and heartache now emerging from Sydney, Australia, where two gunmen targeted Jewish Australians and this Arab Australian risked his own life to save others.
Thanks for joining us. There is no shortage of sadness tonight, not to mention almost unimaginable shock and horror. Legendary director and actor, Rob Reiner has been murdered along with his wife, the photographer and producer, Michele Singer-Reiner at their home in the Brentwood section of Los Angeles. Their daughter Romy discovered the bodies. Now, their son, Nick is in custody. He was booked for suspicion of murder and is being held without bail tonight. His case is expected to go before the district attorney tomorrow.
Rob Reiner had a remarkable career. He directed "Stand By Me," arguably the best coming of age film of its era. The best and freshest fairy tale he directed "The Princess Bride," the best romantic comedy, "When Harry Met Sally" during the making of which he met his wife.
"Misery" might have been the best horror film of its time, certainly. "A Few Good Men" is considered to be the best courtroom drama of the era, and many people, myself included, believe his very first film, "This is Spinal Tap," is the best mockumentary ever made.
I spoke to Rob Reiner about it right here at this desk in September.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It spawned the entire -- I feel like it spawned the entire mockumentary or, you know.
ROB REINER, DIRECTOR AND ACTOR: It did, I mean, listen, we didn't plan to do that, but you see that technique --
COOPER: That show --
REINER: You know, well, Chris has docs that we did it at --
COOPER: Yes --
REINER: You know, at Castlerock, yes, but like, you know, "The Office," "Abbott Elementary," "Parks and Rec," they use this kind of documentary form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm a huge "Spinal Tap" Rob Reiner fan, and we're going to play the entire interview later in this hour because he is so alive in it and funny and human.
What is less than human is the response to Rob Reiner's brutal killing by the President of the United States. And yes, Rob Reiner was a well- known political activist who was vocal in his support for progressive causes and opposition to the President. Hardly any reason for President of the United States to do what he did this morning, posting the following online.
"A very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife, Michele, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump derangement syndrome, sometimes referred to as TDS."
The President went on to write: "He was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump, with his obvious paranoia, reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all those goals and expectations of greatness and with the golden age of America upon us, perhaps like never before, may Rob and Michele rest in peace."
That was the President of the United States on the murder of two Americans. Two Republican Congress members, Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, condemned those remarks, as did Congressman Don Bacon, who said Trump sounded like a drunk guy at a bar. Others were silent. Here's the President this evening, doubling down and talking about himself yet again in the third person.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned. I think he hurt himself, and career-wise, he became like a deranged person. Trump Derangement Syndrome, so I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way, shape or form. I thought he was very bad for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I should point out that after Charlie Kirk's assassination in September, President Trump urged Americans to realize that, "Violence and murder are the tragic consequences of demonizing those with whom you disagree. Day after day, in the most hateful and despicable way possible."
In a moment, more on Rob Reiner's legacy. Right now CNN's Nick Watt with more on the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Rob and Michele Reiner met on the set of "When Harry Met Sally." They were married more than 35 years. They died together Sunday. Their daughter, Romy found them. Around 3:40 P.M. the LAPD and Fire Department responded to the Reiner home in upscale Brentwood.
Homicide detectives soon on the scene, 9:15 P.M. a suspect arrested, the couple's son, Nick Reiner, age 32. He'd been seen arguing with his dad Saturday night at a party at Conan Obrien's house.
[20:05:11]
LAPD POLICE: He was subsequently booked for murder and is being held on a four-million bail.
WATT (voice over): The D.A. is yet to file charges.
Nick Reiner, seen here with his parents at "The Spinal Tap II" premiere in September, has been open about his struggles with heroin addiction and homelessness. He co-wrote a movie, "Being Charlie," based on those experiences, his dad directed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see those. Are those Oxys? WATT (voice over): They talked about it on AOL back in 2016.
R. REINER: It is loosely based on, you know, things that Nick went through and his relationship to me and his mother and you can talk a little bit more about it, Nick, if you want.
NICK REINER, SON OF ROB REINER: I wasn't really that shy about including some of the bad stuff I did, because a lot of people do things that are pretty unsavory.
MICHAEL STIVIC, FICTIONAL CHARACTER, "ALL IN THE FAMILY": I like to take care of one foot at a time.
WATT (voice over): Rob Reiner's big break was as a T.V. actor, playing Meathead on "All in the Family" back in the 70s; later, as a movie director, he was prolific and versatile. "Princess Bride," "A Few Good Men," "Stand By Me," "Spinal Tap," "Misery," "When Harry Met Sally".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a seismic shock because Rob Reiner is such an outsized presence in the entertainment community. I mean, he's almost the mayor of Hollywood. He's such an affable, genial person.
WATT (voice over): Tributes laid today at his Walk of Fame Star for this actor, writer, director, producer, political activist and much loved avuncular industry figure.
Harry Shearer, one of the stars of "Spinal Tap," said this is unspeakable. The stuff of Greek tragedy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: So the LAPD says that Nick Reiner was responsible for the death of his parents. They won't officially say how, so we don't know exactly what the scene was when Romy Reiner, their daughter, came to this house on Sunday and found her parents.
Now, investigators, Anderson, tomorrow will hand the case to the D.A. Charges we assume will follow.
Listen, a grim death to end a great life. Rob Reiner was universally popular in this city, which is more famed for big egos and sharp elbows. He was also, as you laid out, a wonderful filmmaker and to all that knew him, a great guy -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nick Watt, thanks very much.
Joining us now is the editor-at-large "The Late Nighter," Bill Carter, who knew Rob Reiner, interviewed him over the years. Bill, it's obviously just incredibly horrific what has happened. You look at Rob Reiner's incredible body of work. I mean, it's hard to over or under, overstate the importance of "All in the Family at the time that it came out, it was one of the first T.V. shows I was allowed to watch as a kid, it was revolutionary.
BILL CARTER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "THE LATE NIGHTER": It was. It actually changed television. It made the sitcom more important than just a bunch of jokes and he was an absolutely integral part of that. And, you know, it raised his image as something somebody who wasn't just Carl Reiner's son. You saw this guy and you thought, well, this is another talented Reiner.
COOPER: You also look at a movie -- I mean, all the movies he did, I mean, "Spinal Tap," you know, probably the first mockumentary that created an entire genre that is, you know, I mean, and, you know, they came out with a second one for which I interviewed him about, and were going to play that later on in the broadcast.
The movie, "The American President," screenplay by Aaron Sorkin, directed by Reiner. Incredibly well cast, deeply realistic. You felt like you were in The White House and, you know, a great romantic comedy, it holds up.
CARTER: It is a remarkable body of work. I mean, you know, he isn't mentioned with like, Scorsese and people like that, but you put those films together and as you pointed out, this is like the echelon, the top echelon in those genres, the top echelon of romantic comedy is "When Harry Met Sally" and he started the mockumentary genre, which, as you pointed out, extends now to television, et cetera.
Really extraordinary, if you put those films together, you would say, that is one amazing career. And he was also an actor. He was, acting recently. He was in he was in "The Bear," you know, as a character. He still kept that part of his career going. He really had a remarkable career, I think people don't really realize that.
But I want to say one thing about him, he was very funny, Anderson. He just was a naturally funny guy and he was great to spend time with because he was a fantastic storyteller. He would tell stories of things that happened on the movies and that happened in, you know, in the days of "All in the Family." And he just was very engaging and enjoyable.
COOPER: Yes, well, in the interview that we're going to play later, he talks about -- they made no money from "Spinal Tap."
I mean they like saw hardly any money whatsoever. I want to play something that Rob Reiner said last year about changing the ending to "When Harry Met Sally" after meeting his wife Michele on the set.
[20:10:18]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
R. REINER: The original ending of the film that we had was that Harry and Sally didn't get together, because I had been -- I've been married for ten years. I've been single for ten years, and I couldn't figure out how I was ever going to be with anybody, and that gave birth to "When Harry Met Sally," and I hadn't met anybody, and so, it was going to be the two of them seeing each other after years, talking and then walking away from each other.
I met my wife, Michele, who I've been married to now 35 years. I met her while we were making the film and I changed the ending. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I love that story, and I mean, it's obviously a very competitive industry. He had a really wonderful reputation.
CARTER: He did. If you look at his friends, Billy Crystal is like his one of his best friends and Albert Brooks and all these very, very funny and accomplished guys. And it wasn't because he was the son of a famous guy. It was because he made his own reputation.
An interesting thing about Norman Lear, because I spent time with them together and they established a very unique father and son thing because of "All in the Family." And I don't know if people know this, but Norman Lear put up the money for "Spinal Tap."
That's how that movie had been made. That was -- he put up two million dollars, that would not have ever been made without Norman Lear.
COOPER: Wow! Bill Carter, thank you so much. As we've been discussing, Rob Reiner was passionate about politics. More on that tonight from our Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Long before he took Hollywood by storm, Rob Reiner was famous for his progressive views, playing Meathead on the set of "All in the Family".
STIVIC: I mean with or without protesters this country would still have the same problems.
ARCHIE BUNKER, FICTIONAL CHARACTER, "ALL IN THE FAMILY": What problems?
STIVIC: Well, the war, the racial problem, the economic problem, the pollution problem.
BUNKER: Oh, come on, if you want to nitpick.
KAYE (voice over): That was 50 years ago. Later, as a legendary director, he was an outspoken Democrat.
R. REINER: We are facing two existential crises, one is democracy and whether or not democracy will survive. And two is our planet and whether or not our planet will be sustainable.
KAYE (voice over): Reiner met his wife, photographer, Michele Singer, on the set of his film "When Harry Met Sally."
Together, they became a force in Democratic politics. As supporters of LGBTQ rights, Rob Reiner in 2009 co-founded the American Foundation for Equal Rights, which challenged Proposition 8, California's ban on same sex marriage.
R. REINER: We have one group of people living in this country that are living as second class citizens, and it's just not what the Founding Fathers envisioned.
KAYE (voice over): The Reiners' established Parents' Action For Children, a nonprofit aimed at advancing public policy through parental education.
R. REINER: What we do with our children from the prenatal period to the first three years of life, dramatically impacts how they will function in school and how they will function later on in life.
KAYE (voice over): Rob Reiner never shied away from his liberal views.
R. REINER: We still have too many guns, and we still have problems with the environment.
KAYE (voice over): Whether it was the war in Iraq.
R. REINER: I was against the war in Iraq and I, you know, I just couldn't believe in my lifetime we were about to go to war.
KAYE (voice over): Or President Donald Trump, who Reiner said was mentally unfit for office.
R. REINER: Make no mistake, we have a year before this country becomes a full on autocracy and democracy completely leaves us.
KAYE (voice over): When conservative activist, Charlie Kirk was assassinated, Reiner let politics take a back seat.
R. REINER: I don't care what your political beliefs are. That's not acceptable.
KAYE (voice over): Rob Reiner often appeared on the campaign trail stumping for top Democratic candidates and attended the Democratic National Convention.
The couple had the ear of Democratic presidents, including both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
R. REINER: I'm going to do whatever the Obama campaign asks me to do. He's right on the same page as me with early childhood education.
KAYE (voice over): After learning of their deaths, many high ranking Democrats spoke of the Reiners' boundless empathy and commitment to social and economic justice.
Randi Kaye, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I have a lot of fond memories of Rob Reiner's work and the conversations I was lucky enough to have with him. As mentioned, a bit later tonight, I'm going to bring you more of our final interview from mid-September.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Anybody in the world who does this hand gesture? I mean, you know, it's from "Spinal Tap." You know, It's like the puppet show and "Spinal Tap" and someone's just --
R. REINER: You know everything from it. You know every line from the film more than I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also tonight, new video that authorities want you to see and a new description of the person they are seeking in connection with Saturday's mass shooting at Brown University.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:12]
COOPER: Two days and four hours after a gunman opened fire at Brown University, authorities say they are pursuing a new lead based on this and other new video and stills as well taken just a couple hours before the shooting. That is the suspect there.
They released the footage this evening. It was captured on cameras, the location is not far from the crime scene. Now, all of it showing a man described as a person of interest, I should point out. The FBI also gave a description of a person they are calling an unknown suspect. They say he's about five-feet-eight inches tall, with a stocky build. The Bureau is additionally now offering a $50,000.00 reward for information leading to the killer's identification, arrest and conviction. The phone number is 1-800-CALL-FBI.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED DOCKS, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, BOSTON FIELD OFFICE: It's a painstaking work, and we are asking the public to be patient as we continue to run down every lead so we can get victims, survivors and their families and all of you, the answers you deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:08]
COOPER: Authorities say the man on this new video is the same as the one seen in footage released on Saturday of a man dressed in black, walking down a street not far from the school's engineering building. That is where just about 4:00 P.M., Saturday, a masked gunman opened fire on Economics students holding a study session.
The teaching assistant leading it says he locked eyes with the man, who then began shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH ODURO, BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENT: The first couple gunshots went straight to the chalkboard, exactly where I was standing. So, who knows if I didn't duck, maybe I'm not here today. There was actually a girl who was sitting right next to me, she had two bullets in her legs.
As much training as he could possibly get when there's an active shooter, you're never going to be prepared when it actually takes place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Two students were killed in the shooting. Ella Cook, was 19- years old, from Alabama and 18-year-old Mukhammad Aziz Umurzokov from Uzbekistan.
Nine others were wounded, and by this time yesterday, a man was in custody. He has since been released and cleared, leading to questions about the FBI's handling of the case, including this evening for the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Has Kash Patel told you why it's been so difficult for the FBI to identify who the shooter is?
TRUMP: Well, it's always difficult. So far, we've done a very good job of doing it with Charlie, with, you know, the various times this has happened, they've done it in pretty much record time. But you really have to ask the school a little bit more about that, because this was a school problem. They had their own guards, they had their own police, they had their own everything.
But you'd have to ask that question really to the school, not to the FBI. We came in after the fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN's John Berman joins us now from Providence, not far from the crime scene. What is the atmosphere like there tonight with this shooter still at large?
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I've got to say, Brown University, where I'm standing right now. And actually, the crime scene is right behind me. That is the engineering building where the Principles of Economics class was held on Saturday, where the shooter went in and killed two people and injured nine.
But since that day, they canceled classes here. They called off finals so students have left and they left in droves, Anderson. Today, one of the things I saw walking down the streets just constantly was people with their wheelie bags, students trying to get out, because now they have this renewed fear with this killer still very much on the loose.
The investigation took this new turn today with the release of that new video, which you showed before, and it's worth reiterating, I think, what was new in that video we saw.
For the first time, you did see the size of the man, the FBI saying about five -eight, stocky, they say, what you can tell by looking at it. This isn't, I don't think, high tech forensics, but you can see he is a somewhat portly man there. In the video, you see him walking across the street, our Andrew McCabe looked at it before, if not a limp, at least a little bit of a noticeable hitch in the gait there.
Obviously now, this $50,000.00 reward for any information that leads to his capture. Anderson, I think that in itself, the fact that tonight, almost 50 hours plus since the shooting, that they're offering a $50,000.00 reward tells you they still need help to find this killer.
COOPER: And there are so many cameras in major cities. I mean, we all remember the Boston marathon bombers, those images that were released during the manhunt, you know, the hunt for the alleged killer of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson. Does Providence not have that big of a camera network, at least in the vicinity of Brown?
BERMAN: You know, it's really interesting because Brown is on College Hill in Providence, and Brown is, you know, from the 1770s here, it's been there. This neighborhood is a mixed neighborhood. So, it's not just Brown, but it's also a few other colleges, some schools, some churches, but also a lot of residences, old Victorian homes and plot by plot, the security situation can be different.
I just took a walk actually around a two-block area to check out that very thing, and there are some houses here that may or may not have security. Maybe they have RING camera footage on the door, but maybe they don't and the university itself, which is just right there, does have cameras, but authorities have been asked repeatedly about the engineering building, they said, you know, it was an old building inside, they just didn't have any view that provided any conclusive evidence.
So, it's a little bit of a mixed bag up here on College Hill -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. John Berman, thanks.
Joining me now, CNN chief, law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe, who's now a CNN senior law enforcement analyst. What are you hearing, John, first of all, on this investigation?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF, LAW ENFORCEMENT INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the manhunt is very active, but it's not an ideal manhunt. I mean, the best kind of manhunt is where, you know, the man you're hunting for.
Right now, what they have is a shadowy figure. No name, no identity and no motive, but these images, the new images are going to be enormously helpful. Not because you and I will look at them and say, if we pass him in the street, we know him, we wouldn't.
But as you just said a second ago, you pick your case, the Charlie Kirk assassination, the Luigi Mangione case. In the Mangione case, his mother recognized him or thought she did. In the Charlie Kirk case, his parents confronted him and said, this looks like you. There's a coworker, there's a wife, there's an ex-wife, there's an employer who had an employee who was acting strangely and didn't show up. There's somebody out there who's going to look at those images and call that in.
[20:25:38]
COOPER: Andrew, I mean, with the new surveillance, what do you think stands out to you? I heard you earlier talking about kind of a whether it's an old surgery or something, a slight hitch in his stride.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, it's really interesting, Anderson, that the video we got first was really terrible. It was really -- nothing you could really take away from it. These videos are together not perfect, but they do give you some, I think, really intriguing hints that, as John was saying, might not be something would stand out to you. But if you knew this person, it might be enough to trip your memory.
I think the most obvious thing is his, well, first of all, his size. We didn't know that until these videos that he is a guy of, he's pretty stocky build, which didn't come out on the first video.
It's also got some detail in the clothing. The jacket is clearly not all black. It may be green on the front towards the bottom and black up top, so that's a bit different.
But his walk is distinctive. He has a very distinctive gait. As you see it's a consistent rhythm. He kind of walks the same way when he's on the sidewalk or crossing the street, and it appears to favor his left leg just slightly, not so much that it would be indicative of any sort of permanent disability, but maybe the remnant of an old surgery or a knee injury or something like that.
You can see how he, he kind of -- the left leg doesn't swing quite as far forward as the right leg does. So, it's those kind of details that I think could maybe trip somebody's recollection that this is someone they know in their lives.
COOPER: John, I mean, we didn't see these images immediately. These were -- some of these were old images, but released today. Is that because they were focusing on a person of interest? And that takes resources and then they kind of don't pick up on other potential leads that may be out there.
MILLER: I think the person of interest, took up a lot of resources, but I don't think they had these images and didn't show them to us. My understanding of it, from asking that very question today is they doubled down by expanding this video canvas further and further out until they came up with these productive images, and you can learn from them. This one we're looking at now, he is pacing back and forth.
That's not the getaway we saw in the first image, where he's walking briskly and looking to make distance between the shooting. But in the one before the shooting, he's got two black gloves on and the one after the shooting, he's got a gloved left hand, but his right hand is ungloved. And, you know, either hanging by his side or its in his pocket where he may have that pistol ready to confront somebody if he's stopped.
COOPER: All right, John Miller, thank you, Andrew McCabe as well.
Coming up next, one of the students who managed to get out of the auditorium just as the shooting started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People just started screaming and running, and I saw the door at the bottom of the room, and I just ran for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later, antisemitism writ large, all we're learning in the wake of Australia's worst mass shooting in three decades, a Hanukkah attack at Sydney's Bondi Beach.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:59]
COOPER: As the manhunt continues for the shooter who killed two people and injured nine others at Brown University, survivors and witnesses are sharing their experiences shortly before airtime. Sophomore Annie Johnson told me how she escaped the auditorium once the shooting began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So Annie, I know you didn't see the gunmen, but you heard the shooting, and I know you're not sure if it came from out in the hall or from the other end of the auditorium. Can you just talk about where you were and what happened once you fled from the front of the room?
ANNIE JOHNSON, BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Yes, so I was at the front of the room near the blackboard talking to the TAs. I was asking the TA a question when I heard the first shots. And at first, I don't think anyone really knew what was going on, but then people just started screaming and running. And I saw the door at the bottom of the room, and I just ran for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well joining us now is someone to whom incidents like this land harder than many. Arizona Senator Mark Kelly's wife, Gabby Giffords, was badly wounded. Six people were killed by a mass shooter in Tucson almost 15 years ago. Senator Kelly joins us now.
Senator Kelly, we've spoken before about your family's experience here. What went through your mind when you heard about yet again another shooting, this one at Brown? SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, Anderson, we have been talking about this for nearly 15 years. I mean, you and I have had many conversations about this issue. And Gabby and I was -- were together when we learned about this shooting.
And the thing that now goes through my mind every time I hear about one of these things is just how, you know, how horribly have members of Congress and administrations, you know, failed young people in this country. I mean, these kids who grow up having to do practice for mass shootings, and many of them experience them themselves in real lockdowns.
[20:35:02]
And, you know, In this case, we have a kid that was shot herself in high school and now is in this -- involved in this mass shooting in -- at Brown University. So, you know, Washington, D.C., and state legislatures have clearly failed the American people.
COOPER: We don't really know anything about this shooter, know the kind of weapon or weapons he used. How much would that information guide next steps in Rhode Island, potentially nationwide?
KELLY: Well, I mean, it's all going to be part of the investigation. And, you know, those details do matter to some extent, but we pretty much know how this works. Anderson, you know. You know, places that have stronger gun laws have less gun violence.
If you look around the country, that's very clear. And countries that have stronger gun laws in the United States have significantly lower rates of gun violence. You travel anywhere in Europe or Asia. You ask anybody if they know anybody who's ever been shot. And it's really, really hard to find somebody.
You ask that question in the United States. And my experience has been if I've got a room full of people, I ask if anybody knows somebody who's been shot. It's about 50 percent consistently.
COOPER: Australian officials have already pledged to tighten gun laws in the aftermath of the mass shooting at Bondi Beach just this past weekend. First of all, what did you -- what was your reaction to that shooting and the difference reaction from officials there?
KELLY: Well, such a horrible act of antisemitism that shouldn't exist, you know, anywhere and something we have to fight everywhere. I mean, it's tragic. And, you know, I think they need to get to the bottom of it, you know, why did this happen.
And, you know, we've got to also look out, you know, for communities across the United States to make sure acts of antisemitism like that do not happen. And do a better job, you know, finding them before terrorists like these two individuals are able to, you know, start an attack like that.
COOPER: I want to ask you, Punchbowl News is reporting that the Defense Department is now escalating its review of your participation in that video in which you and other Democratic lawmakers reminded service members of their obligation not to follow illegal orders. According to the reporting, the Pentagon is now calling this a, quote, "official command investigation."
I know last time you and I spoke, you said you'd heard nothing about this investigation beyond a social media post from Secretary Hegseth. What have you heard now? What's your response to the reporting?
KELLY: Well, first of all, Anderson, I haven't heard anything still, nothing. And this time, two Pentagon correspondents, I guess it's Matt Gaetz and the Pizzagate conspiracy guy, put something on social media. That's how we were notified. That's how unserious they are.
That shows like what this is all about. This is about attention. And they call it a command investigation. Anderson, I spent 25 years in the United States Navy. I was in many commands. I retired from the Navy, you know, 14 years ago.
I'm not in any command now. I don't know what they're talking about. At some point, I imagine they'll probably notify me of something. I'll be with the Secretary of Defense tomorrow in a briefing with Pete Hegseth. You know, maybe at that point he's going to come up to me and, you know, say something officially, because I haven't heard anything officially from DOD --
COOPER: Would you ask him about it?
KELLY: Will I ask him about it?
COOPER: Yes.
KELLY: Probably not. I mean, we've got some serious issues that we got to get to the bottom of the boat strikes in Venezuela. You know, he's -- he has -- you know, he has to give us some answers. He is the most unqualified Secretary of Defense this country has ever had by far. And you can see the results from this.
We have the largest government agency, you know, being run by somebody who has no idea what he's doing. And the results are really tragic.
COOPER: Senator Mark Kelly, thanks for your time.
KELLY: Thank you.
COOPER: Next, we're going to return to the Reiner tragedies. Hollywood in the world remembers director and actor Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. I'm going to play you my last conversation that we had in September at this desk with Rob Reiner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You must get people all the time just regaling you --
ROB REINER, DIRECTOR AND ACTOR: Yes, you do get --
COOPER: -- and like -- and it must be annoying, like, yes, I know. REINER: No, no, it's fun. It's fun to know that you've things that a movie you made has -- had that kind of impact. It is fun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:43:48]
COOPER: Turning back to the deaths of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. In September, I had the absolute pleasure of interviewing Rob right here at this desk. As a kid, "Stand By Me" was an incredibly important movie in my life and so was "Spinal Tap." I have watched it a lot, as Rob found out when he was on to promote its sequel in a book about the original film.
So tonight, with the understandable horror over how he died and his wife, I want us all to spend a little time with Rob Reiner as he was in life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm sure you get this wherever you go, but I am trying to resist the urge to just regale you with one-liners from "Spinal Tap."
REINER: Well, you know, this goes to 11, which you hear all the time.
COOPER: I don't know. I wasn't going to do that. I was going to do --
REINER: I know -- yes.
COOPER: -- Bobbi Flekman from Polymer Records.
REINER: Yes, yes, yes.
COOPER: Money talks, and (INAUDIBLE).
REINER: There you go. Yes.
COOPER: I --
REINER: And my favorite is "A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever."
COOPER: Of course. I met her on Sunday.
REINER: We have a book out now with that --
COOPER: It was my lucky Monday.
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: You know what I mean. You know what I mean.
REINER: This goes to 11. It's actually --
COOPER: It's too much. It's too much. It's too (INAUDIBLE) perspective.
REINER: There you go. This goes to 11 is in the Oxford English Dictionary.
COOPER: As it should be.
REINER: As it should be.
COOPER: But, I mean, you must get people all the time just regaling you.
REINER: Yes, you do get --
COOPER: And like -- and it must be annoying. Like, yes, I know, that was in 1984.
REINER: No, no, it's fun. It's fun to know that you have things that a movie you made has had that kind of impact. It is fun.
[20:45:06]
COOPER: I just want to ask you about it like every individual scene in the film that I'm obsessed with. But I will -- we going to have to resist. Did you have any idea when you were making "Spinal Tap" how genius it was and that it would -- well, do you have any idea --
REINER: No.
COOPER: -- how -- what it would be?
REINER: No, no. And it took a long time. But first --when it first came out --
COOPER: But you knew it was good.
REINER: Well, yes, we thought it was good, but it's satire. And you know that expression, satire is what closes on a Saturday night in -- on Broadway. When we first did it, people came up to me and they said, I don't understand this. Why would you make a movie about a band nobody's ever heard of?
And one -- you know, why wouldn't you make it about The Beatle? They thought it was a real band.
COOPER: I mean --
REINER: They thought it was a real documentary.
COOPER: Anybody in the world who does this hand gesture, I mean, you know it's from "Spinal Tap."
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: You know? It's like the puppet show in "Spinal Tap" and someone's just sitting there like this.
REINER: You know everything.
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: You know every line from the film --
COOPER: I'm obsessed.
REINER: -- more than I do.
COOPER: So what was the decision to -- how did it come about to decide to try to top it?
REINER: It's crazy because for years, people kept saying, do a sequel, do a sequel.
COOPER: Right.
REINER: We never wanted to do it. We figured we did it. That's it. The bar's too high. But this is the honest to God truth.
In 40 years, the four of us were supposed to split 40 percent of the profits. And I'm not exaggerating. This is going to sound like a joke. Each one of us got $0.82. It's just a joke. It sounds like a joke, but that's it. We never got any money.
COOPER: How were you robbed of the profits?
REINER: Well, it's --
COOPER: I'm using the term --
REINER: It's called creative accounting.
COOPER: OK.
REINER: And Harry Shearer --
COOPER: So you really made no money from the film?
REINER: No money. No money. Harry said, that's not right. We should get the rights back. He sued, got the rights back. Now we have it back. We said, what are we going to do with it?
We still said, leave it alone. But then we started talking and amongst the four, you know, three of us, we start -- it was four of us now, we're thinking, wait a minute, the three guys have not played together in 15 years.
So why? Was there bad blood? Were they not talking? That all of a sudden gave us the idea. Then we looked around, we thought, all these older bands --
COOPER: Well that's the thing, yes.
REINER: -- these old guys, you know, the Stones are out there, the Eagles -- COOPER: ACDC, I'm just looking at them.
REINER: AC -- they're all out there. I saw, you know, The Who, you know --
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: -- they're out there doing it. You know, we thing -- and Oasis just came back together.
COOPER: Yes, yes.
REINER: We said, OK, it's about old guys having to do one last concert. So it all started to come together.
COOPER: Wow. And the companion book, too, is --
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: -- the behind the scenes of --
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: -- "Spinal Tap."
REINER: The book is called -- here we go, "A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever." And if you can see, it's written by me --
COOPER: Right, Rob Reiner.
REINER: -- and, you know, with the guys inside. But then if you flip it over, it's called "Smell the Book," which is from the movie.
COOPER: A reference to "Smell the Glove."
REINER: "Smell the Glove."
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: And it's written --
COOPER: Which was a song.
REINER: -- and it's by Marty DiBergi, which is the character I play, and with Nigel and David.
COOPER: And Marty DiBergi, you played an interviewer making this --
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: -- fake documentary.
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: Loosely based, lovingly based, on Martin Scorsese.
REINER: That's right.
COOPER: Right.
REINER: I had seen "The Last Waltz," I've seen it a million times.
COOPER: Yes, yes.
REINER: I looked at all the rock and roll documentaries. But that was the only one where I saw the director inserted himself.
COOPER: Right.
REINER: You know, all the rest of them, you don't see the documentarian and he's behind the scenes. But Marty was out there interviewing the fan.
COOPER: Right.
REINER: I said, hey, I could -- that's a character I can play.
COOPER: And when -- so when you're shooting it, do you do multiple takes, and is each one slightly different, or it's just -- how much of it is --
REINER: They're all different.
COOPER: -- I mean, how much was improve (ph)?
REINER: It's all improvised.
COOPER: First, in the old one --
REINER: The whole --
COOPER: -- and the new one as well.
REINER: Every -- all the dialogue is improvised. We have a basic structures --
COOPER: So all those lines that are like --
REINER: All improvised.
COOPER: Wow.
REINER: All improvised. And so you do two or three takes, but they're all different.
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: You're not going to get the same lines.
COOPER: Right. Yes.
REINER: And especially Chris Guest, he is so in the moment, he can't remember what he did the first time. So every once in a while, you know, you'll get me.
COOPER: In the scene of, you know, this one goes to 11, he actually then did a rebuttal, and that wasn't planned.
REINER: Well, no. What happened was, we knew we were going to do a thing about an amp that went to 11, because we had the prop made up. But how we talked about it, that was never discussed. So I suggested something. He didn't know I was going to say it.
I said, well, I don't understand. Why don't you make 10 the top number, make that a little louder, and have 10 be the top number? He didn't know what to say to that. So he just takes this long pause, and he goes, well, this goes to 11. That was his answer. I pinned him into a corner, and he came up with that.
COOPER: The other thing that's so incredible about "Spinal Tap," just the influence. I mean, it spawned the entire -- I feel like it spawned the entire kind of mockumentary, or, you know --
REINER: It did. I mean, you know, listen, we didn't plan to do that, but you see that technique used --
COOPER: Best in show.
REINER: You know, well, Chris's docs --
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: -- that we did at, you know, Castle Rock, yes. But like, you know, "The Office" --
COOPER: Right, yes.
REINER: -- "Abbott Elementary," Parks & Rec" --
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: -- this -- they used this kind of documentary form.
[20:50:10]
And even Ricky Gervais, who I talked to about this, he said, oh, yes, we stole it. You know, I saw "Spinal Tap." It's my favorite comedy of all time, and I used it for New York (ph). I told him it was my idea, and then I used it.
COOPER: And they -- but they used to actually go on tour -- I mean, they play the --
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: They could play to Carnegie Hall.
REINER: Well, they're really good musicians.
COOPER: Yes. REINER: And that's the other thing. They take pride in the fact that they are really good musicians. And the second film, a fine line, you know, which is, you know, the -- it's called "The End Continues."
COOPER: Right.
REINER: "Spinal Tap 2: The End Continues." You got Elton John in there talking about that they're really good musicians. And that you don't -- they're not like a normal heavy metal band. You don't find --
COOPER: So they're really playing.
REINER: They're really playing.
COOPER: Wow.
REINER: Every single note is them, and it's all live. And he said, you don't find a mandolin player in a heavy metal band.
COOPER: The songs must have been written -- were written --
REINER: Oh, yes, no, the songs were written.
COOPER: Song are OK. All right.
REINER: The songs were all written.
COOPER: I mean, in ancient times "Before the Dawn of History" --
REINER: Yes, that's all written. I'm going to -- here's a crazy one. Here's a line that Nigel says. No one knows who they were or what they were doing. OK, so if you go to Stonehenge --
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: -- there's an educational center.
COOPER: No.
REINER: They have quotes up there. Philosophers, poets, scientists. And up there it says, no one knows who they were or what they were doing. Nigel Tufnel, rock musician. It's right up there.
COOPER: That's amazing.
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: I love it when they try to check into a hotel --
REINER: Hotel, yes.
COOPER: -- and it's not ready, and the manager who's, you know, they're --
REINER: You know, Paul Benedict (ph).
COOPER: The guy behind the counter, who I think was the doorman on "The Jeffersons."
REINER: "The Jeffersons," yes, it's Paul Benedict.
COOPER: His line was like, I'm just as God made me.
REINER: Yes, yes. Well, he's -- he gets mad at people.
COOPER: How I know this --
REINER: Because Tony Hendra is the manager. You twisted, fruity quotes. But he says, I'm just as God made me.
COOPER: Just as God made me.
REINER: Yes.
COOPER: Wow. I mean, you brought me so much joy through this and so much work that you've done. And also, I mean, you are also a very committed patriot and citizen of this country and concerned about this country. Yes, I just think you're awesome.
REINER: Thank you so much.
COOPER: Yes.
REINER: Thanks for having me. Thanks for talking with me.
COOPER: Wow. It's my pleasure. Yes. I hope I didn't just fall into the trap of just riffing like a fan --
REINER: Like a fanboy.
COOPER: Yes. Right.
REINER: It's all right. I don't mind it.
COOPER: OK. Rob Reiner, thank you so much.
REINER: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm so glad I had the opportunity to say that to his face, the impact he had on me.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:27]
COOPER: At Sydney's Bondi Pavilion today, a large crowd gathered to leave flowers and other tributes. It's not far from where authorities say a father-son duo opened fire Sunday targeting a Hanukkah celebration, killing at least 15 people. Australia's prime minister says the suspects were driven, his words, by extreme ideology. During the attack, hundreds of people were seen running for safety. At least 27 people remain hospitalized, including this bystander who's being hailed as a hero for wrestling a gun from one of the alleged attackers. More from CNN's Angus Watson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): What should have been a joyous evening for Australia's Jewish community ended with pain and suffering.
Two gunmen opened fire on Sydney's scenic Bondi Beach, where hundreds of people gathered Sunday evening to celebrate the first day of Hanukkah. The shooting rampage lasted just under 10 minutes, killing at least 15 people and leaving more than two dozen injured.
Both shooters began firing from a footbridge near the beach at about 6:47 p.m. local time. Survivors describe a scene of utter chaos as panic set in and crowds of people ran for safety.
BRIDGET SARKS, WITNESS: I know what I saw. I saw him shoot the gun and it just all hell broke loose. There's just people everywhere, kids everywhere, kids screaming, people screaming. And, yes, just everyone everywhere just -- yes, it was horrible.
WATSON (voice-over): After some time, one of the shooters leaves the bridge to move to a closer position to the fleeing pedestrians. As he advances, a bystander named Ahmed al-Ahmed confronts the shooter, risking his life to disarm the gunman.
Now, staring down the barrel of his own gun, the gunman returns to the bridge. There, he picks up a spare firearm and joins the other shooter in trading fire with police. One gunman continues to shoot after the other is shot and collapses to the ground. Eventually, the second shooter is also hit and falls.
Police have identified the suspected shooters as a father and son duo. The police raided two homes connected to the men and seized six firearms belonging to the father. Officials have not yet disclosed the pair's exact ideology or motive for carrying out the attack. But authorities have been clear in designating the attack as an act of terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Angus Watson joins me now from Sydney. I understand the prime minister has said they were allegiant (ph) -- ahead of allegiance to Islamic State ideology. Do we know anything more about that?
WATSON (on-camera): That's right, Anderson. This update's come just now. The prime minister of Australia saying that it was the Islamic State ideology that motivated this man. But it was also sheer antisemitism, hate against Jews.
These men took up this position atop a Hanukkah party to try to kill as many Jewish people as they could. That included a 10-year-old girl --
COOPER: Yes.
WATSON (on-camera): -- Matilda, her life stolen from her just because she's Jewish, Anderson.
COOPER: Sickening.
Angus Watson, thank you.
The news continues. The Source starts now.
