Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Administration Officials Brief Key Lawmakers on Venezuela Strike; Maduro in U.S. Court Today: "I am a Prisoner of War;" Interview with Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA); Maduro, Wife Plead Not Guilty To All Federal Charges; Trump Warns Colombia, Cuba, Mexico, Iran, Greenland After Maduro Ouster; Colombian Pres. Gustavo Petro Claims He Would "Take Up Arms Again" In The Face Of Trump's Threats; Pentagon To Cut Mark Kelly's Retirement Pay Over "Seditious" Video. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 05, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks for joining us AC360 starts now.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, all the breaking news on Venezuela. President Trump's latest statements about the operation and what happens now. He says the U.S. is running Venezuela and the top person in charge of the country is him.
Also, Maduro appears in court, his wife, as well as the legal battle begins. We'll take you inside today's arraignment. And who is Cilia Flores? Maduro's wife and co-defendant, she doesn't call herself the First Lady, she says she's the First Combatant.
Good evening.
We begin tonight with the breaking news on the U.S. capture, incarceration, and legal proceedings against Nicolas Maduro, the now ousted President of Venezuela. On Capitol Hill, a briefing of select lawmakers by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dan Caine, the Attorney General Pam Bondi, the CIA Director John Ratcliffe, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio has just wrapped up. I'll speak to one Democratic lawmaker who attended in just a few minutes.
No doubt, President Trump's justification for Maduro's capture and very basic questions including, who is running Venezuela right now? What happens next will be top of mind. Late tonight, President Trump, in an interview with NBC, was asked who is ultimately in charge of Venezuela? And he answered with one word -- me. This was the President last night on Air Force One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: You said the U.S. would run Venezuela.
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're dealing with the people. We're dealing with the people that just got sworn in. And, don't ask me who's in charge because I'll give you an answer and it will be very controversial.
REPORTER: What does that mean?
TRUMP: It means we're in charge.
REPORTER: Have you spoken with her? We're in charge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: This was Secretary of State Rubio who just briefed lawmakers earlier yesterday on the same question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS: President Trump said we're going to run the country. So is it you? Is it Secretary Hegseth? Who are those people who will be running the country specifically?
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, it's not running the concerning the policy, the policy with regards to this. We want Venezuela to move in a certain direction, because not only do we think it's good for the people of Venezuela, it's in our national interest.
So now, there are other people in charge of the military and police apparatus there. They're going to have to decide now what direction they want to go, and we hope they will choose a different direction than the one Nicolas Maduro picked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And as NBC is reporting, Trump said to them, that he is in charge today.
Beyond Venezuela the President sounded emboldened after the military operation there to openly muse about potential actions in other countries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Colombia is very sick too, run by a sick man who likes making cocaine and selling it to the United States and he's not going to be doing it very long.
REPORTER: So, there will be an operation by the U.S., again?
TRUMP: It sounds good to me. Cuba is ready to fall.
REPORTER: Yes.
TRUMP: Cuba looks like it's ready to fall.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Yes.
TRUMP: Cuba looks like it's ready to fall.
REPORTER: Are you considering U.S. action in Cuba? TRUMP: Yes, I think it's just going to fall. Mexico has to get their
act together because they're pouring through Mexico and were going to have to do something.
We need Greenland from a National Security situation. It's so strategic. Right now, Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place. We need Greenland from the standpoint of National Security. And Denmark is not going to be able to do it. I can tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The left in the corner there was Lindsey Graham. We'll find out if any more clarity was provided by the Trump administration on all that to lawmakers. But first, the morning began with an image that just two days ago seemed impossible.
Nicolas Maduro perp walked into a courthouse in Downtown Manhattan to face criminal charges. After entering a plea of not guilty to all four counts during his arraignment, Maduro said, "I am still President of my country" before being cut off by the judge.
Both Maduro and his wife and co-defendant, Cilia Flores, appeared to have suffered some injuries during the operation that led to their day in court. CNN reporters at the arraignment said Maduro seemed to struggle to stand up and sit down. His wife had some bandages on her head. Her lawyer said that Flores sustained significant injuries and suggested she may have a fracture or severe bruising on her ribs.
Now, in Venezuela, this was the scene late today. Delcy Rodriguez, Maduro's Vice-President, formally sworn in as Venezuela's acting President. Large crowds of Maduro's supporters were in the streets of Caracas calling for his release by the U.S. and those words echoed by Maduro's son, Nicolas Maduro Guerra, nicknamed "The Prince," who was also indicted but not taken into custody early Saturday morning by American Forces along with his father and wife.
Maduro Guerra called their capture a kidnapping, saying, "If we normalize the kidnapping of a head of state, no country is safe." "Today, it's Venezuela," he said, "Tomorrow it could be any nation that refuses to submit."
Starting us off tonight, former federal prosecutor and bestselling author Jeff Toobin, former federal judge for the Southern District of New York, Shira Scheindlin, CNN law enforcement analyst and former NYPD deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism, John Miller and CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, who was at the court today. Evan, let's start with you. What was the scene like?
[20:05:40]
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the scene was incredible because you had you know, I talked to NYPD down there today, and they were surprised at how many people showed up. There were the media scrum was much bigger, even bigger than, you know, when Donald Trump was arraigned and when he was, you know, for the trials, they're even bigger than the Diddy trials, for instance. They kept having to expand the perimeter for the media there today. And also the number of protesters. There were people who were pro removing Maduro, and there were people who were, you know, against that.
And then, of course, you know, the entire, you know, orchestration that the Trump administration had made they wanted the show that we had today where you had him entering, you know, going in with the helicopters over the weekend, that was part of the orchestration by the Trump administration.
And then, of course, today, where Maduro decided that he wanted to make this himself like part of the show, and he tried to take control of the hearing today where the judge, you know, Anderson, you've been to one of these hearings where the judge is in control. He says, what happens and he asked Maduro, you know, to confirm his identity. And Maduro immediately launches into how he was taken from his home that he was brought to New York. You know, illegitimately, basically.
And, you know, that was part of what the scene began today and that was extraordinary because, you know, Maduro is used to being in charge of the situation and the judge sort of made it clear that, no, what we want is we're going to get to later that, you know, you're the President of Venezuela. We're going to get to that later. But for now, we just need you to set the scene here.
Obviously, during the scene, during the hearing today, we saw him having some troubles. His wife also had some troubles with her own medical issues. And then, of course, at the end there was this outburst from a member of the audience who confronted Maduro and Maduro again, asserted that he was the President of Venezuela.
All of this really sets up what we are going to see over the next few months, which is, you know, a confrontation about the legitimacy of these charges, which we'll see what the judge does with that.
COOPER: Jeff, were you surprised by anything that happened in court today? I mean, these images of him being brought by helicopter are extraordinary.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: They are extraordinary but they were sort of predictable. I think what was interesting today is if you read the indictment, it really suggests there are high level cooperators with -- that there are people who are very close to the President of Venezuela and his wife who are cooperating with the government, who will testify against them. That's the kind of evidence that will really sink him, because you know, this is thousands of miles from the Southern District of New York, from Manhattan.
You're going to need evidence that says the President and his wife didn't just sort of supervise the government, but they were involved in these drug deals and other illegal activities. If what is in the indictment can be proven, obviously remains to be seen. He's in very big trouble.
COOPER: And, judge, I mean, the United States says this was a law enforcement operation. Maduro calls it a kidnapping. How do you think the court is going to see this?
SHIRA SCHEINDLIN, FORMER FEDERAL JUDGE FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: It's a good question. It's hard to know what the court will think, but I think the court will have to agree that it's a law enforcement arrest. There an indictment. He's indicted. They have a right to try to find the person who's indicted and bring him back. But they had no right to do that in a sovereign country. It violates the U.N. Charter. You can't just go into a foreign country.
COOPER: Even if there's an indictment that's a law enforcement operation.
SCHEINDLIN: That's right.
PEREZ: You don't think that the 1989 OLC opinion from Bill Barr that says that even if it's against international law, the FBI is allowed to arrest someone in a foreign country.
SCHEINDLIN: No.
PEREZ: You don't think that stands?
SCHEINDLIN: No, I don't and that opinion has been very highly criticized by legal scholars. There's no way the U.N. Charter has been ratified by our country, therefore its part of our law and it has to be obeyed and unless the country consents to your being there, or you can show that its self-defense, neither of which was true here, then you're out of luck.
[20:10:10]
PEREZ: A big difference from the Noriega case, right?
SCHEINDLIN: That's right.
TOOBIN: But in the real world, how many judges are there who are going to say, here are the keys, Mr. Maduro, go home.
SCHEINDLIN: Of course, I don't that.
TOOBIN: It's just, you know --
COOPER: A judge would feel pressure on this.
SCHEINDLIN: Oh my gosh, yes. So at the end of the day, while I see it as a violation of law, and I don't think it meets any of the exceptions under the U.N. Charter, which is law, I still don't think Judge Hellerstein is going to do exactly what you say and say. You can walk free and just but I think counsel will appeal it all the way.
COOPER: John, I mean, obviously the images not just from today and the helicopter, but, you know, huge motorcades. What are the threats here? I mean, is this a lot some of this for show.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, some of it could be administration driven. But if you look at the way they moved El Chapo and others this is considered a high risk prisoner. It's a case involving rich drug cartels and so on. The question is who wants to take out the defendant in a case like this? Is the Sinaloa Cartel going to put its neck on the line to break Maduro out of jail in America? And if so, run where? So some of it is what they are used to with a defendant on this level.
Now, something changed today. With that court appearance, he went from being property of the DEA as their arrestee to being property of the U.S. Marshal, as a prisoner and a guest of the BOP, the Bureau of Prisons.
You'll see a tamping down of (A) the frequency of the moves until a trial starts and less helicopters and armored vehicles. They're going to use the plan they've used for other high profile defendants, which is a little lower profile than what we've been seeing.
COOPER: And Jeff --
SCHEINDLIN: Don't they usually drive across the Brooklyn Bridge and not fly across the Brooklyn Bridge?
MILLER: That's what they usually do. I think some of this may have been to avoid those congestion pricing tolls of the helicopter but --
COOPER: Jeff, I mean, talking about money, what do you know about Maduro's attorney, Barry Pollack, who's going to be paying him if he's the attorney who's going to be on the case? Because Swiss authorities say they've frozen any assets Maduro might have there.
TOOBIN: He is known as a good lawyer and frankly, most you know, tough criminal defense lawyers would love a case like this. This is a career making case, win or lose. And there are very important legal principles at work. The issue of how he will be paid. This comes up a lot in in sophisticated organized crime cases, because the government is arguing that everything that the defendant has is are proceeds of a crime. Usually, there's some sort of deal worked out, and I expect that will be the case here. Most judges don't want to get into a fight about money. They want to see the lawyer paid. They want to see a smooth proceeding. So, my sense is that there will be a way worked out.
MILLER: But this is also one of those cases, especially with two defendants in court that is going to run into the $10-million range. So, they're going to have to -- if they're going to say, were going to separate this from forfeiture, they're going to have to carve off a big piece.
PEREZ: You know, and I know about Barry Pollack, I've known him for years. And, you know, he represented Julian Assange. This is one of those cases where, you know, he's used to representing people who are unpopular public figures. And, I can tell you, I mean, this is one of those cases that he's lavishing the idea.
The idea that you know, some of the legal issues that you raised, which are, you know, obviously, you know, international law and all that stuff. This is the kind of thing that will take months to work out.
COOPER: Yes, thanks to our panel appreciate it.
Up next, we're going to hear from a leading member of Congress who was just briefed by the administration, by officials on the raid. We'll talk with Democratic Congressman Adam Smith, the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee.
Also, former CIA director and head of U.S. Central Command, retired four-star General David Petraeus joins me, giving his perspective on the historic U.S. Military Operation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:38]
COOPER: We have more breaking news, late this evening, top Trump administration officials, including, among others, Secretary Of State Marco Rubio, the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, the CIA Director, John Ratcliffe held a classified briefing for top congressional officials on the strike to oust Maduro from power. Members of the so-called "Gang of Eight" were briefed. They included House and Senate congressional leaders from each party, as well as the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees.
Joining me right now is Congressman Adam Smith of Washington State. He attended the meeting as the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee. Congressman, I appreciate you being with us. In terms of what you can say about what you heard, what did you learn this evening?
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, we learned a lot of the operational details that went into the raid and that we can't talk about in sort of the basis for it. And then, you know, we heard some rationale for where the administration sees this going and why they felt like removing Maduro was the right policy move.
Now, there's a lot of guesswork about what comes next. But it sounds like the administration is planning on trying to work with Vice- President now, President Rodriguez, to hopefully deal with some of the issues around narcotrafficking, around relationships with Venezuela and Cuba and Iran and Russia and China around mass immigration, but I don't think they have a clear plan.
And I also think that when President Trump says that we're running Venezuela and starts talking about how were doing this for the oil, that really undermines the ability to have any sort of effective transition, because the people of Venezuela don't want to be ruled by the United States of America. That was one of the things that brought Chavez and Maduro to power in the first place, was them standing up to an imperialistic power trying to force our will on them.
So, President Trump's rhetoric has really been undermining what Secretary Rubio said the mission is at this point.
COOPER: What do you think should happen? SMITH: Well, at this point, with Maduro gone, I think we should make
it clear that were not planning on running Venezuela. We should speak up far more for the sovereignty of Venezuela and for the people of Venezuela. Are we doing this in a way that's going to improve the lives of people in Venezuela, and understand that's a crucial issue -- Chavez and Maduro, utterly destroyed that country.
Communism, socialism was a complete disaster there, the way they broke down any semblance of governance and education and health care and on and on. So, they've got a long way to come back.
So, if we are going to work with people in Venezuela to improve the situation in Venezuela, which, by the way, would help us because it would reduce the need for Venezuelans to flee and creating that migration problem. It would reduce Venezuela.
Venezuela would not be as open a place for narcotraffickers to operate. So we need to do that. But we need to give some statement about how this is to help the Venezuelan people and to actually help them instead of saying, well, we want your oil, so we don't like Maduro. There's a lot more to this that needs to be a lot better explained.
COOPER: If this is about oil and the new government in Venezuela, run now by the former Vice-President, you know, agrees to give whatever oil is wanted or whatever business set up the Trump administration wants and the dissidents, the opposition figures who are now imprisoned and have been imprisoned by Maduro, all these people who are in jails in Venezuela, people who have been tortured, will that all just remain in place?
SMITH: We don't know at this point. And President Trump has not made that clear. And again, there's been no statements about those people that you just mentioned in freeing them and improving the lives of the people of Venezuela. So, we don't really know where this goes at this point. And that's what is deeply concerning about what the plans are in terms of Maduro is gone, but where does Venezuela go from here and how does it impact the region?
COOPER: President Trump said in an interview with NBC News that he wouldn't need lawmakers to act in order for him to send American troops back into Venezuela. And when asked if any lawmakers had advanced notification about Saturday morning's raid, he said, I don't want to get into that but people knew. What's your response?
SMITH: Yes, well, that's one aspect of this and consultants and pollsters and everybody tell me not to talk much about this because we have to talk about how this impacts the American people and the fact that this was blatantly illegal and an exercise of Presidential power in clear violation of the Constitution doesn't resonate amongst with the American -- much with the American people but it is a problem, as your previous guest outlined.
COOPER: Do you think this is blatantly illegal?
SMITH: Oh, there's no question. I mean, your previous guest had a really good job of outlining that, we've signed on to a U.N. Charter that says you can't violate sovereign territory in this way, even to arrest somebody who has an indictment against them.
You know, the U.N. Charter is clear. We signed on to the U.N. Charter. So, therefore we were clearly breaking the law and doing a regime change operation. That's not even debatable.
And President Trump's contempt for that law does undermine any sort of legal action going forward. Across the globe, we increasingly send the message the law is just a matter of convenience do what you want. So, I think that's a problem. But to answer your question most directly, no, the President of United States does not have the right to put boots on the ground in Venezuela without congressional authorization. That's clearly an act of war that should require congressional approval.
And I hope my Republican colleagues currently in charge of the House and the Senate step up and recognize that Congress needs to be relevant, regardless of party.
And they've done too much in the last year of simply letting Trump do whatever he wants, whether it's on spending or tariffs or the use of the military domestically or the use of ICE, on and on. Congress needs to reassert its authority. I think we need to put pressure on Republican leadership to do that.
COOPER: Congressman Adam Smith, thank you for your time.
The mission to capture Maduro was dubbed Operation Absolute Resolve took months of planning. Obviously, sources say the CIA covertly installed a team inside Venezuela back in August to track Maduro's movements. Here's a quick timeline of how the raid unfolded as we know of it now.
It began around 10:46 P.M. Eastern time on Friday night, after President Trump gave the order to move ahead. More than 150 aircraft were launched from 20 different bases on land and sea, flying toward the target. Officials say that cyber warfare tactics were deployed to help clear a path for teams operating both in the sky and on the ground.
We're told the joint air component then began to dismantle and disable air defense systems in Venezuela, including helicopters. Members of the elite Delta Force who made their way to Maduro in Caracas, they descended into Maduro's heavily fortified compound around 1:00 Saturday morning. Maduro's wife were unable to make it to their steel in force safe room. They were then captured and taken into custody, we're told.
Secretary Hegseth said 200 U.S. personnel were on the ground during the operation, and at 3:29 A.M., U.S. forces were back over water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAN CAINE, U.S. CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: After months of work by our intelligence teammates to find Maduro and understand how he moved, where he lived, where he travelled, what he ate, what he wore, what were his pets?
In early December, our force was set pending a series of aligned events.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:18]
COOPER: The Venezuelan Defense Minister said, during the operation, U.S. forces killed a large part of Maduro's security team. Additional military personnel and civilians, he didn't specify a number of casualties.
Joining me now to talk about it, retired four-star General David Petraeus, he previously served as head of U.S. Central command and director of the CIA, and commanded U.S. and coalition forces in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
General Petraeus, obviously a remarkably well-executed mission by, you know, by what it looks like, American Military, CIA among them. How difficult do you think it was for intelligence operatives to track Maduro's daily life with this level of precision?
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET), FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I think it's extraordinarily challenging and probably something that only our intelligence community, frankly, could pull off. But to establish the kind of detail that General Caine described, the pattern of life, to understand everything about the individual you're intending to detain is enormously challenging and it involved all sources of intelligence, not just human intelligence and sources, perhaps, inside the regime and so forth.
But all of the sophisticated technical means that we have as well, to enable the knowledge to launch this operation of a great deal of complexity, 150 aircraft of various types to take out the supposedly sophisticated Chinese and Russian air and ballistic missile defense systems, to neutralize all of these individuals around him, to kill a large number again, he has the equivalent of the Secret Service, and it even includes Cuban security forces around him to augment what it is that he has on the ground, and to carry all this off with only, as I understand it, a couple of our soldiers, wounded, not life threatening and damage to just one aircraft which is able to make it back. Really, an extraordinary demonstration of American military capability and also of the capabilities of our intelligence community, as well.
COOPER: What happened? I mean, you know better than anybody how difficult it is to, you know, to control a country or run a country. You know, there's been words used that the U.S. is now in charge of Venezuela running Venezuela that President Trump is the top person in charge. What happens next?
PETRAEUS: Well, I think the Secretary of State has actually tried to characterize this in a way that seems correct, and that is that we are going to direct -- we have enormous power and influence, needless to say, the new acting President realizes that she could end up on the X as the term is in military terminology, that she could be a target of this extraordinarily capable military force if she does not act in accordance with the direction that is provided, and presumably there's a large team being put together that has expertise in all different areas of governance and rule of law and the rest of that.
I assume that we are going to have to re-establish an embassy there. There will need to be security forces for that, but nothing more than that or much more than that. I would think. But all of the elements that we saw, for example, once we established an embassy in Afghanistan in the wake of the toppling of the Taliban regime, or with the coalition provisional authority in the wake of the toppling of the regime in Iraq.
And, of course, that was a two star general during the fight to Baghdad, commanding the 101st Airborne Division and the first year of that particular war, and not everything went the way that it might have gone, frankly.
We made some very disastrous decisions early on in that effort, when things were actually going reasonably well, firing the military without telling them how it would provide for them and their families --
COOPER: And the whole de-Ba'athification campaign --
PETRAEUS: --the bureaucracy, the bureaucrats -- we needed to run a country that we didn't sufficiently understand and without an agreed reconciliation process. So again, hopefully folks are looking at the lessons from those experiences, looking from the lessons of the 1989, late 1989 invasion of Panama, very, very different, of course, there.
We had 27,000 troops on the ground for a population of a little over two million, very small country and an elected President who could be sworn in the day that we invaded. And then, of course, you really had to find Noriega, bring him into justice, and then you could let that country stand back up.
Much more challenging in this case, needless to say, because there could be a lot of internecine fighting between the elements of the regime. What about the people over time, as Congressman Smith rightly observed. They would presumably want to know what the objectives are here beyond re-establishing the oil industry and stopping the shipment of oil to perhaps Cuba.
By the way, Cuba is in a very vulnerable situation. I think President Trump characterized that very correctly. If that is, the oil is cut off for them, they're going to have real challenges on their hands. But the complexity going forward of how do you guide this country toward what presumably, again, the Secretary of State has implied, I think quite strongly that there would be ultimately either an election or the, establishment of a government around those who were elected in 2024, when Maduro was, of course, defeated by a nearly two to one margin and then overturned the results of that election.
COOPER: Yes, General Petraeus a lot to watch for and be concerned about. Thank you very much. Up next, what we know about Nicolas Maduro's wife who is also in U.S.
custody, pleading not guilty in federal court today. Nearly eight years ago, her husband had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translation): If you want to attack me, attack me. Don't mess with Cilia. Don't mess with the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Plus, is Colombia next? Ahead, what President Trump has said about the leader of Colombia as that government deploys its military to its border with Venezuela.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:22]
COOPER: That is ousted Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, directly behind him, their hands bound earlier today on their way to the U.S. federal court in lower Manhattan. Now, just days ago, he was running a country of more than 30 million people with his wife as his top adviser. Like her husband, she's pleaded not guilty to drug trafficking and other charges. But until her capture, she was seen as Venezuela's most powerful woman.
With more, here's Isa Soares.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MADURO (through translation): Secretary General of my heart!
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of Nicolas Maduro's many moments of praise for his wife, Cilia Flores, who was always by the Venezuelan president's side. But don't be fooled by her soft manner. For years, Flores has wielded power behind the scenes as a shrewd political strategist.
In fact, instead of first lady, she likes to go by first combatant, a title that speaks volumes about her lifelong belief in Chavismo, the socialist movement that has dominated Venezuela for decades. As a lawyer, she helped secure Hugo Chavez's release from prison after his failed coup attempt in the 90s. That's when she first crossed paths with Maduro, a moment she recalled on her husband's podcast.
CILIA FLORES, WIFE OF NICOLA MADURO (through translation): When a young man asked to speak, he spoke, and I just stared at him. It's true, and I said, look, how intelligent.
SOARES (voice-over): Chavez later became president, as well as Maduro's mentor and predecessor. All the while, Flores was busy carving her own political path. In 2006, she became the first woman to preside over Venezuela's National Assembly. She was criticized for banning journalists from the legislative chamber and for hiring dozens of relatives as employees, moves she defended.
In 2012, Chavez appointed Flores as the country's solicitor general, not long before he died. One year later, she tied the knot with then- president Maduro.
MADURO (through translation): Cilia and I legalized our relationship under the country's laws.
SOARES (voice-over): All of this has earned her the description of the most powerful woman in Venezuela. That power and influence haven't gone unnoticed.
In 2018, the first Trump administration slapped sanctions on the first lady and others, alleging they were helping the Venezuelan leader plunder his nation's wealth.
MADURO (through translation): If you want to attack me, attack me. Don't mess with Cilia. Don't mess with the family.
SOARES (voice-over): But the Trump administration disagreed. And when it took the extraordinary step of seizing the Venezuelan president from his bedroom over the weekend, it made sure to get Flores, too.
Isa Soares, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joining me now is CNN's Fareed Zakaria, host of Fareed Zakaria GPS. I mean, President Trump is being very clear, telling NBC he says he's ultimately in charge of running Venezuela. The folks, everybody underneath Maduro is still there, still in power. What do you think's going to happen?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: There are two options. It seems to me like what is most likely is the Trump administration is going to leave the entire regime in place. All it's done, essentially, is decapitated, gotten rid of Maduro. And they'll leave Delcy Rodriguez and the interior minister and the defense minister who have all the guns under them in place in return for some kind of concessions on the oil issue.
The concessions probably have been not that hard to make because the country needs oil investment anyway. And they're getting some American companies and probably not a difficult thing. So, in effect, this will not be a regime change. These were -- they're not -- you know, it really is the most expensive arrest in human history.
COOPER: But I mean, if this was about narcotrafficking, which is what the allegations are, you're leaving a regime. If this is a narcotrafficking regime --
ZAKARIA: Yes.
COOPER: -- that this guy just was the head of, you're leaving all the other, you know, underlings in power.
ZAKARIA: Absolutely. And they'll probably stop doing it for a while, but maintain all their equities and slowly, you know --
COOPER: So then, is this just about oil?
ZAKARIA: I think it seems like an obsession that Trump has had for a long time. It's a little puzzling. If you had asked the most fervent MAGA supporters three months ago, should we be going into Venezuela? Everyone would have said no. So this is something Trump decided to do.
So that's option one. He just leaves the whole place. Option two is he tries to change the regime. That is going to be very complicated because these guys have guns, they have arms.
[20:40:01]
By the way, there are a lot of militias in Venezuela because of the drugs, because of the oil. This would -- that would look a lot like Iraq, I think. So much more likely is option one, where, you know, he gets a big win. It's a show of American force.
I think for Trump, it's very important to show that he's strong, powerful, the boss, dominates the -- he doesn't care about follow-up. You know, so if five months from now, the Venezuelan regime is actually very similar to the one that he, you know, intervened in, I don't think he's going to care.
COOPER: So interesting, because I remember interviewing him back when he was running in, you know, 2015, 2016. He would talk about, we should have taken the oil from Iraq. We should have --
ZAKARIA: Yes.
COOPER: -- literally surrounded the oil fields with American troops, sucked out the oil --
ZAKARIA: Yes.
COOPER: -- and taken it --
ZAKARIA: Yes.
COOPER: -- which was ludicrous. But it shows oil is at the key, the heart of certainly his thoughts on it.
ZAKARIA: He has a very old-fashioned view of economics. You know, we extract these minerals. We extract the -- in point of fact, unless you did something like that, which would be essentially kind of 19th century colonialism, all this stuff exists on a -- in a global market. We don't get any special -- we didn't get any special deal from Iraq in terms of the Iraqi oil.
We don't need the oil. We are the largest producer of liquid hydrocarbons in the world. And the idea that having ownership of some mineral or oil gets you riches is kind of -- you know, it's nuts. That's not how modern economics works. Otherwise, all the countries in Africa would be rich.
COOPER: If you're leading Colombia, if you're leading Cuba right now, how concerned should they be?
ZAKARIA: I think you'd be -- naturally, you'd be worried. I mean, he's the president of the most powerful country in the history of the world, and he's threatening you.
COOPER: And all your Cuban bodyguards didn't seem to --
ZAKARIA: Yes, yes, exactly.
COOPER: -- to match.
ZAKARIA: On the other hand, are you really going to go in and try to topple the regimes in these places? I mean, the Colombian one and the Mexican one are bizarre because these are allies. They cooperate with American law enforcement and intelligence --
COOPER: He works very closely.
ZAKARIA: All the time. I mean, Colombia, for 15 years, was the second largest recipient of U.S. aid after Israel because they were fighting all these drug cartels, and we were helping them. The Mexican case, again -- you know, and the most important thing, Anderson, is these are democracies.
So when you start threatening them, you know, the people don't like it. It's one thing to get rid of a nasty dictator like Maduro, whom the people hated.
COOPER: Right.
ZAKARIA: But that's not the case in Mexico. That's not the case in Colombia. These are elected leaders. And you're suddenly -- what's happening is he's galvanizing nationalism in each of these countries against America. All these countries are now feeling resentful of America.
All the goodwill that America built up in Latin America over the last 50 years by partnering with these countries, by providing aid, by helping them with their drug problems, you're squandering it. And for what? It -- you know, we're not going to topple the government of Mexico. We're not going to topple the government of Colombia. For braggadocio, for the ability to sound like you're a tough guy, you're squandering 50 years of goodwill.
COOPER: Fareed Zakaria, thanks very much.
Up next, we'll talk more about Colombia as it's moved some military forces along its border with Venezuela. CNN's Clarissa Ward is there. We'll check in with her after President Trump said this about Colombia's leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He has cocaine mills. He has factories where he makes cocaine. And, yes, I think I stick by my first statement. He's making cocaine, and they're sending it into the United States. So he does have to watch his ass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:40]
COOPER: President Trump is openly threatening to take military action against Colombia, Venezuela's neighbor to the West, calling Colombia's president a sick man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He has cocaine mills. He has factories where he makes cocaine. And, yes, I think I stick by my first statement. He's making cocaine. They're sending it into the United States. So he does have to watch his ass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward joins us tonight from Colombia's capital of Bogota. Is it clear, Clarissa, how concerned the Colombian government is actually about these statements from the president?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we certainly saw a pretty fiery response today, Anderson, from Colombia's president, Gustavo Petro, who made it very clear that President Trump and the U.S. should not consider any kind of military intervention here in Colombia. He himself is a former guerrilla, and he said, you know, I made a vow to lay down my weapon some time ago, but make no mistake, I would be willing to take up arms again in order to defend the homeland.
And he went on to say quite explicitly, and I quote, "If you arrest a president who a good part of my people want and respect, you will unleash the popular Jaguar." We have also heard him chastise the U.S.'s thinking about Latin America as a region. He posted saying, "Don't think Latin America is just a nest of criminals poisoning your people. Respect us and respect our history and read our history."
But despite these sort of fiery posts, we've also been talking to a number of people in the president's office. CNN has also spent some time with the Defense Minister, Pedro Sanchez, and they're definitely trying to tamp down the rhetoric, Anderson. They're trying to say, listen, the U.S. is not an enemy. President Trump is not an enemy.
We share a common enemy and a common goal, which is to work together to deal with the issue of drugs and drug lords and criminal gangs. Obviously, Colombia has been working so closely with the U.S. on this issue for four decades. And I think that's the point that they really want to emphasize.
But still, and perhaps partly for the purposes of domestic consumption, we are seeing a strong line from Colombia's president coming out and condemning the U.S. Donald Trump's threat of military intervention here in Colombia, Anderson.
[20:50:05]
COOPER: Yes. Clarissa Ward, thanks very much.
Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, you've accused the Trump administration of lying to Congress about its intentions in Venezuela. I know you weren't in the briefing by Cabinet officials earlier this evening. Based on what the president's advisers are saying publicly, to the extent you're aware of what they're saying privately, do you believe they're still lying? And about what?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, I mean, Donald Trump lies every single day. So, of course, you can't take anything that he says as the truth. When I was speaking about that original briefing in December, listen, everybody in that room heard the administration tell us that they were not interested in regime change, that they were doing a targeted counter-narcotics mission in the waters off of Venezuela.
Well, they were telling us that. They were literally drilling on a life-size replica of Maduro's home, getting ready for regime change. Well, you have the administration telling you that this was really about just arresting someone who had a warrant out on him. You have Donald Trump saying, no, really, it's all about the oil.
The rationales are shifting. The explanations are shifting every single day. I think it's really hard for Congress and for the American people to know what is true. It seems like we're getting closer to the truth, that is really just about patting the pockets of Donald Trump's oil friends and Wall Street buddies. But, you know, the explanations seem to change by the minute.
COOPER: Does it make sense to you to leave the rest of Maduro's regime in place, and President Trump and Secretary Rubio suggesting they can work with Maduro's vice president, who's now the acting president?
MURPHY: Yes, I mean, this clearly has nothing to do with democracy or the Venezuelan people. The Venezuelan people are, you know, worse off because they now, you know, have a country that is, you know, under threat of continued invasion. Maduro's people are still in charge. There is no democratic awakening happening in Venezuela today.
And the people that are left in charge of the country are still interested in political repression, are likely still interested in exporting drugs, mainly cocaine, out of the country, mainly to Europe. And so for the Venezuelan people, you know, nothing has changed. If anything, their situation has gotten much worse.
COOPER: And obviously, as you know, I mean, since this operation, President Trump has threatened Cuba and Colombia, Mexico, Iran, has reiterated his desire to annex Greenland. I mean, he seems to have adopted, you know, the early 19th century Monroe doctrine as current U.S. policy. MURPHY: Yes, I mean, listen, I was somebody that didn't take his talk about Greenland seriously. I thought it was all a distraction. I do think you now have to, you know, think more seriously about these threats. But at some level, he's winning tonight because clearly part of his intent here was to distract the American people, you and I, from what's happening here at home.
I mean, you have 20 million families who are getting massive increases in their health care premiums. There are going to be people who will die in America because of the health care nightmare that Donald Trump has imposed on this country. You have kids who are losing their food stamp benefits.
Prices are going up all over the country. The Epstein files are being slowly released, and we're getting closer to the truth, which is probably that the president of the United States was pretty damn close to an infamous child sex ring. And so the president wants to change the story.
So it's Venezuela. It's Cuba. It's Colombia. It's Greenland. Not to say that this isn't really serious, that this couldn't have massive national security consequences for the United States if it goes horribly wrong, but it is also just part of his distraction campaign.
COOPER: I also do want to ask you about -- we heard today from Defense Secretary Hegseth that he's moving to formally punish your colleague, Senator and Retired Navy Combat Pilot Mark Kelly, for appearing in a video which, you know, the lawmakers told troops that they didn't have to follow illegal orders.
Hegseth has accused lawmakers of sedition. He says he intends to demote Kelly from the rank of captain, reduce his retirement pay. Senator Kelly responded saying, in part, "I risked my life for this country and to defend our Constitution, including the First Amendment rights of every American to speak out. I never expected that the president of the United States and the Secretary of Defense would attack me for doing exactly that."
What's your reaction?
MURPHY: Well, for those of us that are really worried that we could lose our democracy in 2026, you know, this is what we're talking about. This is obviously an exceptional abuse of executive power, punishing a United States senator, demoting his rank in the military as a retired war fighter simply because he said something that the president disagrees with.
But, of course, this is happening throughout the federal government. Over and over again, the president is using, whether it be the United States military or the Department of Justice to punish anybody that opposes him. James Comey, Letitia James, the news media who have been banned from the Pentagon.
[20:55:17]
We have never, ever in the history of this country seen a president so willing to use his official powers to try to censor speech, to try to control what people say, to punish people who disagree with him. Now, it's true it hasn't silenced and won't silence Mark Kelly. Journalists like you and many others all across the country are still telling the truth. But this is how democracies die, and it's why we have to continue to raise alarm bells all over the country when it continues to happen.
COOPER: Yes. Senator Chris Murphy, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Next, we're going to take you to the largest Venezuelan community in the United States.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Let's check in with Randi Kaye, who's in Doral, Florida, home to the largest Venezuelan community in the U.S. Randi?
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, here in Doral, there have been tears and cheers, but Venezuelans told us here that for the first time in so many years, they finally have hope, although they are very disappointed and angry that the -- that Maduro's vice president, now the president of Venezuela, remains in place. They said that feels like sidelining the opposition leader. It feels like a slap in the face to many of the Venezuelans here.
And I did ask them if any of them do plan to return home or visit, and they said that even with Maduro out of power, Anderson, it just does not feel safe enough for them to do so.
COOPER: Yes, the rest of the regime is still in place.
Randi Kaye, thank you.
We'll have more tomorrow. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
