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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Federal Agents Pull Woman From Car In Minneapolis Today; Trump: "Day Of Reckoning And Retribution Is Coming" To Minnesota; Trump: Fed Chair Powell Is "Incompetent" Or "Crooked"; Trump Tells Iranian Protesters "Help Is On Its Way"; Interview With Representative Chris Deluzio (D-PA); Greenlanders React To Increased U.S. Interest; Clintons Refuse To Testify In Congressional Epstein Probe. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 13, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: You know, I mentioned that Democrats gained amongst them overall. Right on party ID. If in fact their lead, which they currently have, holds until the midterm election. I went back and looked at every single midterm election since 1982, when Democrats hold the lead on party identification, they go on, in fact, to gain House seats. And of course, they only need to gain a few House seats in order to gain control.
So, at this point, the Democrats lead on party identification forbodes very, very well for the midterm elections, a hundred percent of the time since 1982.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Wow! So rare, you actually have a hundred for anything.
ENTEN: You're a hundred percent in my book, Erin Burnett.
BURNETT: As are you.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: Thank you, Harry, and all of you, thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, with new clashes on the streets of Minneapolis and the President promising a day of reckoning and retribution, the Justice Department says there is no evidence and no basis to investigate the ICE officer who killed Renee Good. But federal prosecutors in Minnesota, under pressure to investigate Good and her wife, have now quit.
Also tonight, the anti-government uprising in Iran, the estimated death toll rising from hundreds to thousands now, as the President tells protesters, American help is on the way. What that means is not clear.
And later, Bill and Hillary Clinton, subpoenaed by the House to give Epstein testimony, say they will not potentially be daring the DOJ to prosecute them.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight with Minneapolis, where a thousand more federal officers are surging and the President is online telling people there, and these are his words to "fear not."
"Fear not, great people of Minnesota," he says in all caps, "The day of reckoning and retribution is coming." Now, he posted that this morning, six days after an ICE officer shot and killed Renee Good. And just today, a few blocks away from the shooting scene, another woman in another car was confronted by federal agents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF FEDERAL AGENTS CONFRONTING A WOMAN IN HER CAR.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It is a bit hard to make out with all the shouting and whistles. The driver says "I'm disabled. I'm trying to go to the doctor up there that's why I can't move."
We've isolated that portion of the video so you can hear it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm disabled trying to go up there that's why I couldn't move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, we don't yet know what became of that woman or a man who was also detained.
Some of the confrontations between protesters and authorities got physical, including this one which saw officer shove one man who appeared to throw something at an officer.
Protesters at another point tried to block one of the vehicles as it tried to make its way up the street, which again is close to where Renee Good was killed.
Also nearby, CNN's Ryan Young, who found himself in the middle of another clash. We're going to play you more than a minute of that, as Ryan narrates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, they're making arrests. They are throwing people to the ground. They're dealing with this, and you can tell they're surrounded by this community right now, it's wild.
Oh, now they're spraying the chemical spray. The chemical spray is being dispersed. We have a situation that's gotten quickly out-of- control in this neighborhood. Several of their own agents have been sprayed. We're not sure who they went after directly, but this is all happening right here on Park Avenue in Minneapolis.
They don't have the local police department with them at all. So, these agents are just sort of in the middle of the crowd doing this. And you can see how they're making this arrest with several agents piled on top of this, it looks like an older gentleman right here.
You see, people have actually taken the kneeling position here in front of these officers, but they are loud and they are angry. I'm sure when they get in this car, there we go. They're firing the flashbangs again. I knew that was going to happen.
Okay, and now they're using heavier flashbangs to disperse the crowd. And I knew when those agents tried to get in their car, this was going to take another turn.
So, we have people slamming their hands into the car. We have people who are sort of -- yes, and we're back at it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now again, the President says, fear not to Minnesotans and is promising a day of reckoning and retribution. He is also speaking out about Renee Good's killing.
Here's what he said to CBS News in Detroit this afternoon when asked this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY DOKOUPIL, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: What do you want to say to her father right now?
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I want to say to the father that I love all of our people. They can be on the other side, as you say, he might be on my side.
DOKOUPIL: He is on your side.
TRUMP: And I think that's great, and I do, I think it's great. And I would bet you that she, under normal circumstances, was a very solid, wonderful person.
But her actions were pretty tough. I've seen it many ways and many different shapes and forms. But the bottom line is, look, we have hundreds of thousands of murderers in our countries, killers. ICE is trying to get them out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:39]
COOPER: Well, earlier today, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said that there was no basis for opening a criminal investigation into the officer who shot Renee Good and at least six Minnesota federal prosecutors quit today after pressure to focus the investigation instead on Good's widow's actions.
Also today, new polling from Quinnipiac showing only 35 percent of people believe the shooting was justified, 53 percent called it unjustified.
As for ICE's handling of immigration law enforcement, a full 57 percent of voters say they disapprove. Also speaking out, podcaster and Trump voter, Joe Rogan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": But you don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens that just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Starting us off tonight as Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison.
Mr. Attorney General, what do you think the President means when he says a day of reckoning and retribution is coming to Minnesota?
KEITH ELLISON, MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think he means retribution the same way he meant retribution against Letitia James and James Comey. I think that he means he's going to get people back who he does not like.
He made this very clear. He believes that. He said he hates his political opponent. And I think everyone should take him at his word because, you know, he has proven to be trustworthy when it comes to his desire to get revenge and be vindictive.
He's clearly mad at Minnesota because we rejected him at the ballot box three times straight. He's upset about that and he said so recently, and I'm sure you can probably roll tape on that, but I believe that he is --
That's why we have to go to court to stop him. That's why it is necessary for the state of Minnesota, city of St. Paul, city of Minneapolis to ask a court to intervene, because I do not believe that the President will stop, simply because there's evidence, clear evidence that this surge is not doing what he said he wanted it to do, which is to deal with crime.
It's not achieving that goal. It's actually creating more disorder, more harm, more risk of injury than anything going on in Minneapolis. So, we need court intervention.
He won't stop himself. We need outside intervention to stop him. And so, we are having great faith that the court will help us escape this persecution. COOPER: It's rare you see tactics like this used and protesters getting so close to law enforcement personnel. Ordinarily, things, if it's local police usually or state police, it seems like things are more under control. Is that just a difference in how police would handle these tactics versus, you know, these folks from ICE? Is it the fact that there's no police on the scene to kind of separate the two?
ELLISON: It goes to the heart of why this is a bad idea from the beginning.
Look, our lawsuit doesn't say that there can be no ICE presence in Minnesota. There was ICE presence before we filed this lawsuit, but this dramatic escalation of poorly trained, poorly recruited people who have been instructed by the President that Somalis are garbage, right, is a recipe for disaster.
Our local police are trained to do crowd control. They understand what the First Amendment means and have respect for that. They understand that the press have a right to be there. And so, there's a lot more professionalism.
This situation is out of control because they never coordinated with local law enforcement from the beginning. They never tried to do anything to make sure that they could do their job safely and in an orderly manner. They just went in there guns-a-blazing, literally. And now we see disastrous outcomes because of the killing of Renee Good, which now were hearing they're not even going to investigate.
COOPER: Is it clear to you how they are choosing where they go in, you know, in Minneapolis? Are they seeking specific individuals? Are they just grabbing people in some cases, as targets of opportunity?
[20:10:07]
ELLISON: Target of opportunity is the right way to put it. I mean, I've heard that, we've received reports, credible reports that they have gone to high schools and just harassed students there, that they're literally going door to door, knocking on doors looking for people who seem like they might be immigrants, just stopping random motorists, asking people to show their papers.
It's been random, very random and as a result, it is chaotic.
And so, this is again why we have sought relief from the courts, and we're hoping that we can get some because this is disorderly. It is dangerous, it's depleting the resources of our city. And if there was ever any good intention behind this surge, it has failed. It's not successful.
The President needs to stop it and go back and plan in a way that comports with the Constitution and the laws of the United States and Minnesota.
COOPER: Attorney General Ellison, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you.
Coming up next, we have -- despite some Republican resistance, the President not letting up on his attacks on Fed Chairman Jerome Powell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He either doesn't know what he's doing or its worse than that. And you know what I mean by worse. So, hopefully he'll be out of there soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Our political team weighs in on the criminally investigating Chairman Powell. The ramifications of that and whether the politics of retribution could end up backfiring.
And later, a report from Greenland, where the chill in the air has little to do with winter, but plenty about American efforts to acquire it. As the President recently said, the easy way or the hard way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:59]
COOPER: The President today touring a Ford assembly line in Dearborn, Michigan, speaking later in Detroit, he credited his tariffs for reviving the economy, saying, "The Trump economic boom has officially begun."
The President also continued his verbal campaign against Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, who is now under federal criminal investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's been a lousy Fed Chairman. He was reappointed by Biden. I was a little surprised at that because I didn't think he really earned his stripes.
He's been too high on interest rates and I call him Too Late. He's too late to reduce. He should have reduced them by more.
Despite that, we fought through that. In addition, he heads up a construction situation on a rebuilding of a little building, two little buildings called the Fed.
DOKOUPIL: Yes.
TRUMP: You know where they are. You've seen them a million times.
DOKOUPIL: Yes, I have.
TRUMP: I think I could have done that job. I could have fixed them up for $25 million. He's into billions and billions of dollars, and it looks like they won't open for a long time and he's either corrupt or incompetent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the President did not add the words or neither and he's facing skepticism, including from a number of prominent republican lawmakers. Here's Senate Majority Leader John Thune.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): I think, you know, if the Justice Department is pursuing something, I hope they have a smoking gun or something, because I don't' think you trifle with the Federal Reserve, with the Central Bank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now is CNN political commentators Scott Jennings, Alyssa Farah Griffin and Van Jones.
Van, does it surprise you that not even, you know, pushback from Senator Thune or the Treasury Secretary seems to matter to the President?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, nobody likes this. Nobody wants this. Democrats don't want it. Wall Street doesn't want it. Republicans don't want it.
This because it's a terrible idea to criminally investigate the head of the Central Bank in any country, unless there's something really bad happening.
You want to talk about a boondoggle of a construction project? This dude tore down the East Wing of The White House. That's a bigger boondoggle than anything that's going on with the Fed and he is not getting investigated.
COOPER: Scott, whether you think Powell has done a good job or not is it a good precedent to go after to criminally investigate the head of the Fed? I mean, Treasury Secretary Bessent doesn't think so, Thom Tillis, Senator John Kennedy, just to name a few conservatives.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, if I may respond to Van, we are paying with the new East Wing of The White House with private donations, not taxpayer dollars, unlike the Fed renovation, but we'll leave that for another day.
Look, there are practical implications to the President's decision making here or the administration's decision making. I don't know that the President personally had anything to do with it, and that is on the Hill. If he wants to replace Jerome Powell in May with a new Fed Chair, you're going to have confirmation issues. I mean, that's the first most politically practical problem that you have with this.
I would think the second biggest problem is when you interview people for this, whoever you want to pick is going to ask you, are you going to come after me if I displease you? And so, you may have trouble attracting the people that you want for the job.
So, I don't know where this is going. I actually agree with Senator Thune. If you're going to get into something like this, you better have something, because if you don't, you're creating a whole raft of political problems when really the outcome you want is to get rid of this guy and to get your own person in there that you think is going to set better monetary policy, that now seems to be a bit more complicated.
COOPER: Alyssa, do you have any doubts that this is coming from the President himself?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, yes, this is definitely coming from the President. I have it on good authority that many advisers around the President have wanted him to tamp down his criticisms of Powell. I would remind you, Donald Trump himself handpicked him, and this renovation project dates back to 2017, before Jerome Powell was even head of the Federal Reserve. It was voted on by the Board of Governors.
This isn't some sort of unilateral decision that he decided to do, but Scott makes a great point. Listen, Powell is out in May, but you're going to have to have a Senate confirmation process. You're going to need to get Republicans and hopefully some Democrats on board with whoever he picks.
And the President has telegraphed, could it be Kevin Hassett, someone like Scott Bessent, some folks around him, and you need people who are going to want to do the job and be able to be independent, as the Fed always has been, without feeling like they're going to be under the thumb of the President and constantly under political pressure or they might even face investigation.
COOPER: I mean, Van, if the Fed Chairman is not independent, if the Fed is not independent and is subject to political pressure, that's been tried in a lot of other countries and it does not go well.
[20:20:33]
JONES: No, that is a banana republic situation. I mean, here's the reason why America is great, people want to say, let's make America great again. I'm all for it. What makes America great? Rule of law, free markets and everybody is welcome if they want to play by the rules. You start taking that away and you personalize the Central Bank.
Now, the Central Bank is now a political body, does whatever the President says. You start chasing capital out of the country. You start making it impossible for people to plan, and you start undermining the American economy. That's why nobody thinks this is a good idea, President Trump, nobody likes this. Wall Street doesn't like it. Republicans -- nobody.
This is a terrible idea and the other thing is, to Scott's point, these jobs are tough. If people now feel like they're going to get in there and they're going to become a pinata, not just for the President, but for the Department of Justice, now you're chasing off talent as well, losing talent and losing capital, not good for America.
COOPER: Well, Scott, we're already hearing the President saying things about Pam Bondi, his handpicked Attorney General. I mean, we have seen this playbook before where, you know, their beloved one minute and then over time, the President -- they lose the President's favor.
Why would anybody, you know, qualify? If this happens to Powell, why would anyone really qualified who wanted to be independent step up for this job?
JENNINGS: Well, look, I think you referenced Bondi. That's the Department of Justice that exists in the President's Cabinet. It's a little different than the Fed. And --
COOPER: I just mean as an example of somebody who was once liked by the President, nobody lasts long in his orbit.
JENNINGS: Well, look, there's a lot of reasons you would take a job like this. Number one, it's legitimate public service. Number two, you might think you're the best qualified person for it. Number three, you might think Powell sucks just like Donald Trump and you want to cut interest rates and make the economy better.
I mean, there's a lot of reasons why you might want this job. And I know the President is talking to a lot of qualified people, but when you do take the job, you want to know I'm going to have the confidence of the process here and that's the President nominating me and the Senate confirming me. But the Fed does exist in a different sphere than the rest of the Cabinet.
Now, some conservatives dispute that. How can you have a body that doesn't exactly fit into any of the three branches? And so, there's always those arguments that go on in conservative circles. But the point is taken if you want this job, you don't want to believe that two weeks into it, you could be thrown into the meat grinder, because obviously, in order to get the job, you got to upend your life to do it.
So, it's a point well taken. And I think the President is an outcomes- based person, and he would like to get an outcome this year, which is Powell out somebody better in.
COOPER: Alyssa, what do you think the outcome of this is going to be?
GRIFFIN: I mean, if anything he might be pushing Jerome Powell to want to stay on the Board of Governors after the fact. I think Kevin Hassett is the frontrunner. I worked with him. He is highly qualified. I think he's well liked within the Senate and would have a smooth job.
But it's the same thing. This is a job that is something that outlives presidents, that I think anyone in it wants to protect the independence of. And in that regard, it's going to be hard with Donald Trump where he wants certain outcomes.
And I would just say, I think it's absolutely wild that the President isn't happy with the fed chair. He's gotten three rate cuts in a year. That's -- I mean, that's a very -- that's something he should be happy with. That's why we've been able to keep inflation relatively at bay. We're seeing some better economic news with the GDP growth. So, I think that some of this is just really misplaced anger. And final thing also, Donald Trump is actually best when he has a foe and somebody to complain about and perhaps point fingers at when things aren't going his way. You get rid of Powell. You control both Houses of Congress and you control The White House.
If the economy continues to lag, who are you going to blame? If anything, I think it's good for him to have sort of a boogeyman to point to.
COOPER: Alyssa Farah Griffin, Van Jones, Scott Jennings, good to have you on. Thank you.
Up next, President Trump sending another message to Iranian protesters facing a deadly crackdown by security forces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I've canceled all meetings with the Iranian officials until the senseless killing of protesters stop, and all I say to them is help is on its way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Help is on its way, he says, exactly what that means is unclear.
And Greenlanders tell CNN's Nic Robertson what they think of President Trump's threat to take over the island the easy way or the hard way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:29:02]
COOPER: Breaking news on Iran. Late tonight, President Trump warned the Iranian regime not to execute anti-government protesters. He said the U.S. will take very strong action, his words if it does.
But the State Department reports that tomorrow authorities are planning to do just that to a 26-year-old protester named Erfan Soltani. His family says his trial was rushed and that he was not allowed to have a lawyer or retrial after being sentenced to death.
The U.S. based Human Rights group now says the regime's crackdown has killed more than 2,400 protesters, and the President is urging Iranians to keep up the resistance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: To all Iranian patriots, keep protesting, take over your institutions if possible, and save the name of the killers and the abusers that are abusing you. You're being very badly abused.
I say save their names because they'll pay a very big price. And I've canceled all meetings with the Iranian officials until the senseless killing of protesters stops.
And all I say to them is help is on its way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Perspective now from Brett McGurk, a former Middle East and North Africa Coordinator for the National Security Council. The President of the United States, telling protesters to continue protesting, take over institutions if they can, save the names of their tormentors and that help is on the way.
What do you think that means?
[20:30:23]
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: You know, Anderson, we talked on Friday night about these three forces converging, the people in the streets, the regime which is likely to crack down, and then President Trump's threat. That has now totally converged. You've had this brutal crackdown ongoing over the last 72 hours or so. The number that you're reporting just cited, over 2,000 killed, is probably much higher.
And then President Trump today saying, whether he meant it or not, he declared a regime change policy. He said, take the institutions and help is on the way. And I'm really reminded, Anderson, of George H.W. Bush during the First Gulf War in 1991. He called on Iraqis to take matters into your own hands, force the dictator aside. Of course they did. And then there was a massacre in Iraq of tens of thousands of people killed.
So I think the decision is really now in the White House of exactly what to do. I think, number one, as we discussed before, everything you can do to support these brave Iranians who are still taking the streets, risking their life, number one, trying to get around that regime communications blackout, there's ways to do that, whether it's direct to cell communications through Starlink, working with American tech companies, sanctions, other measures.
But the big question here is whether or not the president will order military force. And that remains unknown.
COOPER: Well, what would that even look like? I mean, you know, Congressman Seth Moulton, who I spoke to last night, stressed the importance of some sort of U.S. response that doesn't embolden and empower Iran's hardliners. Something like, I mean, what would it -- an airstrike, what would that really actually do to stop, you know, people from being killed in the streets?
MCGURK: Yes. Anderson, I think, I mean, the policy is, I said it, what he -- what the president declared today is a regime change policy. We should not be trying to orchestrate a regime change from the outside. We want to do all we can to enable the Iranian people.
Now, if you're looking at military options, this is much different than the operation in June, which was a defined operation against the Fordo nuclear facility. That had been rehearsed for years. A very clear objective. This is much more dynamic and open ended. I have to say, also, it's very hard to envision kind of a single
strike because if you're going to act militarily, I presume our military commanders would want to take out a lot of the missiles and apparatus that the Iranians could use to respond against us. So if there is military force ordered, I think you're looking at a pretty significant operation in terms of the targets. It would be the repressive apparatus of the regime, the Basij Militia, the headquarters of the IRGC.
However, would that result in a change of the regime? Absolutely not. Would it deter these massacres and the hangings of the protesters that have been ordered to be executed? It might. You don't know. It really is opening up a significant unknown. It is totally uncharted territory.
I would say, Anderson, though, I do think this is the beginning of the end of this Islamic Republic in Iran. The 1979 Revolution took a year to play out. It might take some time to play out. But the legitimacy of this system has just been completely shattered, and their decision, taken late last week, apparently to use lethal force against these protesters, was a disastrous decision.
And I think it's going to result in Iran's increasing isolation around the world. And that gap between the people and the government is going to continue to grow.
COOPER: Brett McGurk, I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Coming up next, we'll have more on Iran from Democratic Congressman Chris Deluzio. I'll ask him about the new fallout from that video that he and other lawmakers recorded, reminding military members they don't have to follow unlawful orders.
And with Vice President Vance holding talks tomorrow at the White House with the foreign ministers of Greenland and Denmark, what Greenlanders make of the president's push to take over the island.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIA CHEMNITZ, FASHION DECISION: But that is the worst case scenario that, you know, in a month, I'm American. We don't even have military in Greenland because we don't do war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:38:28]
COOPER: More now in Iran, and the president's warning tonight to Iranian officials that the U.S. will, quote, "take very strong action if they execute anti-government demonstrators." As we reported before the break, the State Department fears that could happen tomorrow. Earlier today, the president encouraged the protesters to keep going, telling them, in his words, help is on the way. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Chris Deluzio of
Pennsylvania. He sits on the Armed Services Committee and is a Navy veteran.
Congressman, what do you think the president means by help is on the way? Do you actually expect U.S. military action?
REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): No, I don't, but let's be clear, Anderson. I mean, the people in Iran who are stepping up right now, they should be, right? This is a regime that not only has Iranian blood in their hands, has American blood on their hands. And I think there's something deep within all of us that yearns for freedom. And I'm sure the Iranian people are no different in wanting a say in their own destiny and wanting to be able to choose their government to be free of this repression.
So our government should be standing in solidarity with them and encouraging them to stand up for their rights and discouraging this regime from their repression and the violence they're using against their own people. I think the president and everyone in our government should be communicating that, and we should be communicating that publicly to the Iranian people that we'll stand in solidarity with anyone who is seeking freedom, seeking the rights that people all over the world ought to have to choose their own governments and destinies.
COOPER: I mean, standing in solidarity is one thing. Military action is another. Do you think the U.S. should get militarily involved? Because otherwise standing solidarity may not amount to much.
[20:40:01]
DELUZIO: Well, there are plenty of things short of military action that a government like ours, as powerful as ours, can do, right? One piece that has been a part of this has been the near blackout of internet and communications. We can bring to bear and put pressure on companies like Elon Musk's Starlink to get internet service for folks. There are things we can do diplomatically to put pressure on this administration. I think we ought to -- this administration in Iran.
And so I think those are the things our government should be doing right now and communicating as best we can through whatever channels we can, that this repression, this violence against their own people should not continue. And we can bring pressure short of sending American troops into Iran, which I don't think anyone is contemplating at this point.
COOPER: What benefit -- I understand the, you know, desire for greater communication through Starlink so that, you know, the world can see what's happening, can hear and get, you know, we don't even know the numbers of people who have been killed at this stage. It's very hard getting information out. But in terms of actually stopping the killing in the streets by the regime or lessening the power of the regime, do you think greater internet service really has a lot of impact on that?
DELUZIO: Look, that's not an adequate piece, but it's one piece of something that I think can help organization and organizing on the ground, to help people in Iran communicate with each other, to organize and coordinate their actions as we're seeing the little bits that are coming out. So, no, of course it's not adequate on its own, but I think it's one piece of a broader puzzle that, again, we can bring diplomatic force to bear.
The president ought to be using every element of American power that does not have to include sending American troops into Iran, which, again, I don't think people in our country expect or want our government to be doing.
COOPER: I want to talk about Venezuela a bit. Sources tell CNN that the Pentagon used a plane that was painted to look like a civilian aircraft, was part of a highly classified program, in its first attack on a boat that the Trump administration said was smuggling drugs. "The New York Times," which first reported the story, as you know, is pointing to laws of armed conflict that prohibit feigning civilian status to fool adversaries.
I'm wondering what questions you might have about that, if any, and is there any reason to think there would be an investigation?
DELUZIO: Well, one --
COOPER: Or should there be?
DELUZIO: Of course, the law of armed conflict -- law of armed conflict applies here. We ought to get to the bottom of what happened. These are serious allegations. I don't want to get ahead of any kind of investigation, but this is the kind of oversight that we should do on the Armed Services Committee, where I serve in the House. Again, these are serious allegations. Let's not guess. Let's just find out. Let's get to the bottom of it.
Our troops conduct themselves honorably as my expectation, but doesn't change the fact that these are serious allegations. Let's find out what happened.
COOPER: And just finally, I know, as you know, Senator Mark Kelly is suing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth after the Pentagon said it was moving to demote his rank and cut his retirement pay after he appeared in a video alongside you and other veterans who are serving in Congress. Did you expect something like this might happen when you recorded that video?
DELUZIO: Who could have guessed the president calling for hanging, arrest, calling for prosecution? Who the heck knows? But I will tell you this. I know Mark Kelly. This guys a patriot. He served in uniform for more than 20 years, flew combat missions, went to outer space. I go on and on. What I know is this guy is not going to be intimidated. And he's not just standing up for himself as he is. He's standing up for retired service members who I think Pete Hegseth is trying to intimidate.
He's signaling Pete Hegseth here a very clear threat, I think, to retired service members. You speak up, you say something that we don't want you to say that we don't like, we're going to go after your retirement, your rank, your pensions. It's outrageous. And Mark Kelly, I think, has taken on a righteous fight here.
COOPER: Yes. Congressman Chris Deluzio, appreciate your time. Thank you.
DELUZIO: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: The foreign ministers of Greenland and Denmark are expected to hold talks in the White House tomorrow with Vice President Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Now, this comes obviously as the president makes new threats to take over Greenland, which is a Danish territory, saying last Friday that if he's unable to make a deal the easy way, then he'll have to do it the hard way.
Today, on the eve of the talks, Greenland's leader had this message for President Trump at a joint news conference with his Danish counterpart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS-FREDERIK NIELSEN, GREENLAND'S PRIME MINISTER: Greenland will not be a part of the USA. We choose the Greenland we know today, which is part of the kingdom of Denmark. Now we are faced with a geopolitical crisis, and if we have to choose between the USA and Denmark here and now, we choose Denmark, we choose NATO, we choose the kingdom of Denmark and we choose the E.U.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN's Nic Robertson traveled to Greenland to see what people there think of all this. Here's what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): It's 11:00 a.m. Daybreak off the coast of Greenland. The strategic Danish island President Trump wants for American security. 150 miles from the Arctic Circle, it is a winter wonderland of stark, snowy beauty.
[20:45:05]
Out here in these remote fields, it seems impossible to imagine that this tranquil Arctic wilderness can really be at the heart of a geopolitical crisis that has the United States pitted against its NATO allies, potentially threatening to upend decades of global security.
(Voice-over): Aaron Josvassen, an Inuit, a native Greenlander, is taking us seal hunting. Food from the land and sea is a core Inuit connection with nature. A cultural totem.
So I know we're waiting for the sea and looking out for the seal. But Donald Trump says there's Russian and Chinese ships here. Where are they?
AARON JOSVASSEN, CAPTAIN: There's no ships from China or Russia.
ROBERTSON: Donald Trump says that it's not enough just to be friends with Greenland and have a treaty, but he has to own it. What do you say?
JOSVASSEN: I'm afraid the nature will destroy it. And many animals will disappear.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Greenland is massive. More than 1600 miles from Arctic tip to Atlantic tail. So wide it straddles several time zones. It is also geographically strategic, sits right between the U.S. and Russia, adjacent to newly thawing polar shipping lanes. But despite its size, barely 57,000 people live on the ice shrouded island. Most of them, like Aaron, Inuit.
SARA OLSVIG, CHAIR, INUIT CIRCUMPOLAR COUNCIL: You know we have been here in Greenland for 4500 years at least, maybe longer.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sarah is also Inuit. A former Greenland politician in the Danish parliament, stands up for Inuit rights.
But President Trump now says that he has to own Greenland. That's the only way, psychologically, that he thinks that the deal will be right.
OLSVIG: If the case is so that he really thinks that Greenland is so important for the U.S., well, then there's something to talk about and let's solve it through dialogue.
ROBERTSON: Is there a dignified dialogue right now?
OLSVIG: I think we are far from what would be -- we would call a dignified dialogue. I think that's obvious.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Inuit are traditionally quiet, but what they say now will be the single biggest factor facing a Trump takeover. Mia Chemnitz is this successful businesswoman, has been silent until now.
Does Donald Trump understand Greenland?
CHEMNITZ: I'm afraid that he understands everything and that he doesn't care.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): She specializes in Inuit clothing, but she's got orders to fill, so she's taking us to her workshop.
CHEMNITZ: Donald Trump and his government, they are very welcome to invest in Greenland. We're always looking for investments. We want to develop. I don't think it's about that.
ROBERTSON: What's it about?
CHEMNITZ: I think it's about land.
ROBERTSON: Donald Trump wants a big country.
CHEMNITZ: I'm afraid so, yes.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Inside her tiny workshop, she is busy, ready to hire more staff. Items like seal mitts, jackets and trousers making a comeback. Exports possible because the animals are hunted for food as well as the hides. But Trump's Greenland grab is crimping her business, putting her own expansion plans on hold.
CHEMNITZ: Well, if you don't know which country you're living in a month, then -- you know.
ROBERTSON: Is that real for you right now?
CHEMNITZ: No, I don't want it to be real. I really try to push that thought down. But that is the worst case scenario that, you know, in a month, I'm American. We don't even have a military in Greenland because we don't do war. We wouldn't be able to resist the American military. No one can resist the American military.
ROBERTSON: Trump isn't the first president to try to get Greenland. The U.S. tried shortly after buying Alaska from Russia more than 150 years ago. Tried again in 1910. And then after World War II, U.S. President Harry Truman secretly offered Denmark $100 million in gold. This time, Donald Trump seems determined to have it his way.
TRUMP: We are going to do something on Greenland, whether they like it or not. Because if we don't do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we're not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Trump also says he wants Greenland's rare earths and minerals. Deposits are scattered along Greenland's rugged, remote coastline. Under the 1951 Greenland defense agreement between the U.S. and Denmark, Trump already has missile bases and sweeping rights to military activity, as well as access to any amount of rare earths and minerals the U.S. desires.
[20:50:06]
JERGEN HAMMEKEN-HOLM, GREENLANDIC DEPUTY MINING MINISTER: We have welcoming United States for many years. It doesn't seem that the commercial way to do things have been of interest for them.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Jergen Hammeken-Holm is Greenland's deputy minister for mining resources, has agreed to talk, but such is the sensitivity around Trump's possible land grab, he is limited about what he can tell me.
What happens if the United States does take control of Greenland? What happens to the minerals and resources then?
HAMMEKEN-HOLM: I have no idea.
ROBERTSON: From a -- sort of a personal perspective, how big a deal for Greenland is, what's happening right now?
HAMMEKEN-HOLM: Big. Very big.
ROBERTSON: Have you ever seen anything this big?
HAMMEKEN-HOLM: No.
ROBERTSON: Does it scare you?
HAMMEKEN-HOLM: Absolutely.
ROBERTSON: Why?
HAMMEKEN-HOLM: The unknown situation on what is going on.
ROBERTSON: What does your gut tell you is going to happen?
HAMMEKEN-HOLM: I have no idea, but I have hopes and expect the worst.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): He is not alone. Greenlanders across the country are struggling with Trump's dogma just as much as the deputy minister.
But he says he's going to do it the easy way or the hard way.
JOSVASSEN: Yes?
ROBERTSON: What does the hard way mean?
JOSVASSEN: I think he wants to use the military, I think.
ROBERTSON: And what will you do then?
JOSVASSEN: Like I cannot do something. I cannot do something. Just, I just say, I give up.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Greenland's options it seems, in the balance, diplomacy, the preference. All else as potentially unforgiving as its Arctic surrounds.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Nuk Fjord, Greenland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, up next, why the Clintons are defying Congress, refusing to testify before the Republican-led committee investigating the Jeffrey Epstein case. That and the legal consequences they may face.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:12]
COOPER: Tonight Bill and Hillary Clinton appear ready for a major legal battle with the House Oversight Committee and its chairman, Republican Congressman James Comer, who now may move to hold him in contempt of Congress. The Clintons are refusing to testify in the committee's Jeffrey Epstein investigation and claim subpoenas they received are invalid.
A letter from their lawyers to Comer reads, in part, "In light of the fact the president and Secretary Clinton have already shared more information with the committee voluntarily than the committee could obtain via the compulsory process, it is clear the subpoenas themselves and any subsequent attempt to enforce them, are nothing more than a ploy to attempt to embarrass political rivals, as President Trump has directed." In the release of thousands of Epstein files so far, there are several
photos of Bill Clinton, including one in a jacuzzi next to a person whose face is redacted. Photos of him with Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein. Clinton has not been accused of any wrongdoing, and a spokesman says the former president did not know about Epstein's crimes and had cut off the relationship before those crimes came to light.
Jeffrey Toobin is here. A former federal prosecutor.
So does the Clinton strategy make sense?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it makes sense politically. I don't think they have great legal arguments. You know, the law gives Congress very wide discretion about who they can call as witnesses. And the argument that this is a political stunt, that it's not relevant to any legislation, I think that's true. But I think it's also true that this is usually within the realm of what Congress can do.
COOPER: So do you think it's really about avoiding being on camera and the embarrassment of it all?
TOOBIN: A hundred percent. And also, I think they recognize that this is an attempt to distract attention away from President Trump and Epstein. But they do have a secret weapon, the Clintons do, which is that this process, even if they're held in contempt, which seems likely at this point, will take a long time. And certainly it will take past the midterm elections. And if the Democrats retake the House, which seems like at least a decent possibility at this point, the Democrats will take the Oversight Committee and they'll get rid of the subpoena. So I think that's maybe the most likely.
COOPER: Why does the process take so long to go through the contempt?
TOOBIN: You know, what happens is it goes to the federal district court. These are complicated cases. Those cases take at least weeks, if not months. Then the losing side goes to the D.C. Circuit to appeal weeks, if not months. You're already into 2027, I would say at least. And then potentially the Supreme Court could take it because this is an issue of constitutional dimension.
COOPER: Their letter to Comer, the Clintons point to a post from President Trump in December that reads in part, "The Dems are the ones who worked with Epstein, not the Republicans. Released all their names, embarrass them, and get back to helping our country." That's to bolster their argument this is just political.
TOOBIN: It is just political. And you know, what's shocking is seeing politics taking place in the Congress. That's what congressional hearings often are. They are attempts to embarrass the opponents. That may be a good thing or a bad thing, but it is a constitutional thing in our system that Congress gets to call the witnesses they want. And the witnesses, by and large, don't get to -- don't get to say, well, I don't want to do it. Ironically, one of the best arguments Clintons have here is the Trump
versus United States Supreme Court case, which of course put President Trump as a former president off limits from criminal prosecution. It also gives presidents, it seems, even greater powers to avoid legal process. And that may be one argument that wins which would be ironic.
COOPER: So what is the next move for Comer here?
TOOBIN: The next move is to get a vote in his committee for contempt against the president and Secretary Clinton.
COOPER: And that probably would not be -- that would not be hard to do.
TOOBIN: That would be a party line vote. And then the Clintons would go to court to challenge it. And that starts the clock not moving very quickly.
COOPER: All right. Jeff Toobin, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
