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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump Threatens to Use Insurrection Act, Deploy Troops to Minnesota; Fed Agent Shoots Man DHS Says Assaulted Him; Attorney for Becca Good and Family of Renee Good Speaks Out. Trump Threatens To Use Insurrection Act, Deploy Troops To Minnesota; Machado "Presented" Trump With Her Nobel Peace Prize; U.S. Carrier Strike Group Heads To Middle East As Iran Tensions Simmer; DOJ Wants Interviews With Dems Over "Illegal Orders" Video. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 15, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: -- by late 2025, Folks like Oprah Winfrey going on those GLP-1 drugs and that's a big reason why the obesity rate is dropping.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That's incredible. All right, tell me something I don't know.

ENTEN: You know, I'll tell you something you don't know and that is that Democrats, Republicans and Independents, all pretty much equally on GOP-1 drugs. President Trump is making a good midterm play by speaking up about GOP-1 drugs and dropping the price of them, because the fact is, it's something that unites Americans in a country that is very much divided.

BURNETT: That's incredible.

All right, thank you very much, Harry, and thanks to all of you. Thanks for joining us, AC360 starts now.

[20:00:35]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, more protests and another shooting as the President threatens to invoke the Insurrection Act and the head of Homeland Security says if you're near an ICE operation, you too can be stopped and asked to prove you're an American.

Also tonight, just a day after the President backs away from military action against Iran, another carrier strike group heads toward the region.

And, Venezuela's opposition leader visits The White House and, like so many others seeking favors, gives the President another gold medal. This time it's a big one, the one he's long pined for, the Nobel Peace Prize. But will giving away the gold, get her anything in return.

Good evening, thanks for joining us.

We begin tonight with the President of the United States threatening to send troops to Minneapolis and his officials scrambling to justify what thousands of federal officers are already doing in the city.

It follows a night of unrest after a federal officer shot a man in the leg. According to the Department of Homeland Security they were trying to arrest him when he violently resisted, helped by two others DHS says armed with a snow shovel and broom handle.

The attack sent the officer to the hospital and triggered clashes like this one nearby.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

COOPER: By this morning, the President was online threatening, in his words to, "institute the Insurrection Act," which many Presidents have done before me and quickly put an end to the travesty that is taking place in that once great state.

Now, the Insurrection Act allows the deployment of U.S. military personnel domestically under certain limited circumstances. It was last used, you may remember, during the rioting in Los Angeles in 1992. And as you know, this is not the first President, the first time that he's threatened to invoke it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have an Insurrection Act for a reason. If I had to enact it, I'd do that.

I'm allowed to use the Insurrection Act.

Don't forget, I can use the Insurrection Act and that's unquestioned power.

We're trying to do it in a nicer manner, but we can always use the Insurrection Act if we want. It's the strongest power a President has. And you have the absolute right to do it.

And if we need more than the National Guard, we'll send more than the National Guard.

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS: So, you're going to send the military into American cities?

TRUMP: Well, if I wanted to, I could if I wanted to use the Insurrection Act.

You know that I could use that immediately and no judge can even challenge you on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, legal scholars have said that's not necessarily so.

In any event, his latest warning did not deter the protesters, who clashed with officers throughout the day outside a now familiar federal building near the airport. As they did, The White House was underscoring the President's threat, which Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt directed solely at Democrats, specifying elected officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Insurrection Act is a tool at the President's disposal.

And I think the President's Truth Social post spoke very loud and clear to Democrats across this country. Elected officials who are using their platforms to encourage violence against federal law enforcement officers who are encouraging left-wing agitators to unlawfully obstruct legitimate law enforcement operations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, she singled out Minnesota Governor Tim Walz by name, whom she said was, "inciting the harassment and illegal obstruction of law enforcement in his state".

Now, here's some of what the governor had to say last night.

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): Let's be very, very clear. This long ago stopped being a matter of immigration enforcement. Instead, it's a campaign of organized brutality against the people of Minnesota by our own federal government.

We must protest loudly, urgently, but also peacefully. Indeed, as hard as we will fight in the courts and at the ballot box, we cannot and will not let violence prevail.

You're angry. I'm angry. Angry is not a strong enough word. But we must remain peaceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, in those remarks last night, he encouraged protests as you heard. But peaceful protests, not violence against federal law enforcement, as Karoline Leavitt suggested, "Democrats across the country, elected officials do".

This was Minneapolis' Mayor Jacob Frey specifically criticizing people who are not peacefully protesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: We cannot counter Donald Trump's chaos with our own brand of chaos, and I have seen thousands of people throughout our city peacefully protesting.

For those that have peacefully protested, I applaud you. For those that are taking the bait, you are not helping and you are not helping the undocumented immigrants in our city. You are not helping the people that call this place home.

[20:05:15]

COOPER: Now, I want to show you what happened several days ago to a woman named Nimco Omer. The video just came out today. There's no violence in it and the encounter doesn't last all that long. But it gives you a sense of the kind of random interactions some people are having in Minneapolis, with federal agents.

This woman, Nimco Omer, said she was walking toward a local Somali shopping center when the agent stopped her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER: Do you have an I.D. on you, Ma'am?

NIMCO OMER, AMERICAN CITIZEN: I don't need an I.D. to walk around in my city. This is my city. This is my home.

OFFICER: Okay, do you have some I.D. then, please?

OMER: I don't need an I.D.

OFFICER: If not, we're going to put you in the vehicle and I.D. Where were you born?

OMER: This is my home.

OFFICER: Where were you born?

OMER: Minneapolis is my home.

OFFICER: Ma'am, that's not -- we're doing an immigration check. We're doing a citizen check.

OMER: This is where --

OFFICER: We're asking you where you were born.

OMER: This is where I belong. This is my home.

OFFICER: Ma'am, you can belong here, but where were you born?

OMER: I'm a citizen. This is my home.

OFFICER: You realize that if you lie that you are a U.S. citizen --

OMER: Minneapolis is my home --

OFFICER: Then you can get federal charges.

OMER: Minneapolis my home. I belong here. I'm sorry. I belong here. I'm not going to check out I.D.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, when asked about this seemingly random check, DHS Assistant Secretary Tricia Mclaughlin told CNN, "Allegations that ICE engages in racial profiling are disgusting, reckless, and categorically false. A person's immigration status makes them a target for enforcement, not their skin color, race, or ethnicity." Now, we don't know miss Omar's immigration status, though you heard her say in the video that she was a citizen. Tricia McLaughlin did not say whether the officers in question who let her go had any reason to believe that she was not.

Her boss, the head of DHS, Kristi Noem, also weighed in on these kinds of stops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: In every situation, we're doing targeted enforcement. If we are on a target and doing an operation, there may be individuals surrounding that criminal that we may be asking who they are and why they're there, and having them validate their identity.

That's what we've always done in asking people who they are so that we know who's in those surroundings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, we don't know whether the stop you saw fits Secretary Noem's description. If there was some ICE operation in that neighborhood, some criminal, in her words, they were hunting and just went up to that woman, asked her for I.D.

There have been numerous complaints from Minneapolis and elsewhere. Federal agents simply stopping people at random and demanding I.D., and it's those complaints and the aggressive tactics of some of these federal agents that are increasingly causing alarm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": But you don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens that just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I want to go to Minneapolis now. Start off there with CNN Shimon Prokupecz.

What's the situation outside the federal building?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Anderson, just here in the last few minutes, the tempers have flared. The protesters have been gathering here in front of this driveway into this federal building, and they have been really testing the patience of federal law enforcement.

We've been watching cars come in here. The protesters have been blocking the cars, hitting the cars, and now the federal officers here in riot gear and tactical gear have come out. And at some point, what we expect is that they're going to push the crowd back. You could see here, let me just show, Anderson, here.

Many of the protesters have been gathering here just outside of the federal building, and for most of the night they've been allowed to stay here. It's the only time that they get pushed back or they're told to leave, is when they start blocking cars or when, as you see here, some of them are getting very close into the driveway of this building.

Now, the officers you see here in front of me are officers with federal protective services, and there are probably CBP, Customs and Border Patrol tactical officers here and Federal Protective Services. They protect federal buildings all across our country. This is much like what we saw. Remember, Anderson in Portland, where protesters would gather at the federal building, agitate the police, confront the police. And then there's a confrontation.

And it seems that right now, that is what were about to see here, as these officers are gathering and were waiting to see if they're going to move forward and push the crowd back that is standing here behind me, as you can see here, Anderson.

There have been a number of protesters who have just been standing back here holding signs. And here now, federal officials -- I think you can hear that, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, we can hear that.

PROKUPECZ: And we're seeing more federal officials here standing in the back.

COOPER: Shimon, how many protesters are there, approximately? Can you, do you have a sense?

[20:10:20]

PROKUPECZ: Yes, it's actually, Anderson. It's not many, maybe a hundred. I mean, it kind of goes from 50 to about a hundred.

It's not a very large crowd, but certainly, you know, law enforcement here, they've been allowing them to stay here. But once they start hitting cars, we saw one protester toss a frozen bottle of water at a car. And then you'll see here, Anderson, more federal officials now.

And so, were going to start moving back -- let's see, we'll start seeing some of the protesters here. They'll start to move back too. You know, they go right to the edge here. The protesters will go right to the edge. And then the federal officials will come out, and we're seeing them here now advance.

And we'll see -- I expect what's going to happen here now, Anderson, is they're going to push us back. They go right to the line here, and then here we go. They're moving back and you can see some of them are Customs and Border Patrol officers and then you see here, some pushing here. See, you can see here one of the protesters are coming face-to- face with police here.

COOPER: And that protester looks like he's wearing like a motorcycle helmet. Is that right?

PROKUPECZ: He is wearing a motorcycle helmet. We've seen a number of them wearing motorcycle helmets. They come prepared. They're wearing gas masks. They have goggles. So, they are certainly prepared. And this is what happens.

They come face-to-face. They bring a right to the edge. The police will push them back, get them out of the street, and at some point, they will retreat.

So, I can't hear what they're saying here ahead. But right now, we're not seeing any of the law enforcement officials prepare to deploy any kind of tear gas or those pepper balls that are really irritating.

COOPER: And Shimon, an advance like this, does that mean vehicles are coming out and they want to create a lane to allow vehicles out, or is this just a periodic moving back of protesters?

PROKUPECZ: So, this is the first time that I've seen them come out in force like this in the last several hours that I've been here, usually, Anderson, you're right. They will do this when they want to clear a lane for vehicles.

We have seen a number of large caravans of vehicles coming in, and then the protesters will start kicking the vehicles, throwing things at the vehicle. And that is when we would see law enforcement come out. And now here again, they're just at a standoff with them in a confrontation. And the protesters are yelling at them.

But for now, the police are holding back. They're not making any arrests and they're just holding the line.

I don't know, I'm trying to see now, it does not appear that there are any cars coming out at the moment. Anderson, let me look over here. So, there are more protesters lined up here so.

COOPER: And Shimon, can you just say again now that you're up close to the federal officers you said it's not -- those people there. They're not ICE. They are federal officers who traditionally protect government buildings.

PROKUPECZ: No, some of them but these, what I'm seeing here, it's Customs and Border Patrol officers. So, it's probably officers that we would see at the airport, we would see, you know -- just trying to see what's going on.

They are now pulling back. So, yes, so that's what these are, these are Customs and Border Patrol. I am seeing some DHS, Department of Homeland Security Officers. But on the front line right here, Anderson, these are Customs and Border Patrol officers.

To Minneapolis, and this is important to note, the Minneapolis State Police, the local police, the Minneapolis Police here are not out here at all. This is all being handled by federal authorities. You know, part of this is federal property. But I think what we have seen that Minneapolis Police Department is really trying to let the federal authorities deal with this at this moment.

COOPER: Well, let me ask you, Shimon, given your experience in Portland, local, if my memory serves me and correct me if I'm wrong here, you were on the ground there at kind of these pressure points between protesters and federal authorities. In Portland, were local police usually on the scene trying to keep protesters back?

[20:15:25]

PROKUPECZ: Yes, in Portland, Anderson. You're right. What would happen is the local police, they were there, but they would stay on the outside, but they would have a presence. And part of what they would do is they had kind of like peacekeepers there, and they would try to maintain the peace. We're not seeing any of that here. We're not seeing the State Police here. We're not seeing the local police here at all. Which is a little different from what we saw in, Portland, because we did see, you're right.

We did see some local police, but they would not get involved in any of the, enforcement action or anything that the federal police did. But what they would do is they would try to maintain the outside because what was happening in Portland, and we've seen some of that here.

There were agitators coming in that were pro-ICE, and they would try to get the crowd going and fights would start and so Portland Police, in those moments, what they would do is they would break up those fights.

Things should, Anderson, calm down here now after what we just saw, I think it's interesting to note, certainly, that we didn't see the federal officers here deploy any kind of tear gas or fire any of the pepper balls they have that. I've seen several of the other law enforcement officials here. They have that capability. They have those tools with them.

But it was interesting to see that they did not use that in this case. They instead just physically like what you would see covering protests in New York City, other cities, they would just physically push people back. So that was a little interesting. And, you know, perhaps trying to de-escalate some of this.

COOPER: That's what's interesting about -- Shimon, what's interesting to me about this scene. And again, this is one pressure point between protesters and law enforcement. And you've been there for several hours and that's the closest they've come.

It's interesting that in many scenes we've seen I don't know if it's less experienced federal officers or others, but in a much more chaotic, situation, not as organized, not as regimented in that line. These officers, it seems, you know, far more organized and you know, strategic. And they moved forward. Then they move back. Let's hope it stays like that.

Shimon, we're going to continue to check in with you. We're going to try to keep your shot up as we continue on. More now on the federal investigation into the shooting of Renee Good that set off the recent spate of or wave of anti-ICE protests in Minnesota.

As we reported earlier, at least six prosecutors in Minnesota U.S. Attorney's Office resigned this week after pressure from the White House to focus the probe into Renee Good and her widow.

Last night, Attorney General Pam Bondi said those prosecutors were actually fired. They didn't resign, that's according to her, a group of lawyers representing the Good family has announced a civil investigation into the shooting.

The founding partner of the firm previously represented the family of George Floyd, who was killed by police in 2020, not far from where, Miss Good was killed. They won a $27 million settlement against the city of Minneapolis, in that case.

I'm joined now by that partner, Antonio Romanucci. Mr. Romanucci, appreciate your time. You've sent a letter to the federal government demanding it preserve evidence relating to the shooting of Mrs. Good. What specifically do you believe authorities may have in their possession? For example, do you think they have additional video from the scene that that hasn't been made public yet?

ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Anderson, thank you for having me on. And yes, this is the first prong of our civil investigation. We have many different prongs that we're launching. But the preservation of evidence is key.

Since we know that there isn't going to be cooperation with the federal government, we need to make sure that when there is time, when the time for litigation comes, that we get the evidence that we need and that letter of preservation is the first step towards that.

We want them to preserve, whether its cell phone video, dashcam video, how they store any of their electronic documents, everything needs to be preserved. And if they don't preserve it, that could be very problematic.

COOPER: What is your level of confidence that they will cooperate even with your civil probe? As you know, federal officials have already boxed out state investigators in Minnesota.

ROMANUCCI: Well, look, I would love to have all the confidence in our government doing what they're supposed to do. And that's what litigants do in litigation, is preserve evidence. They don't destroy. They don't spoil anything. They store it appropriately.

But because we know that were getting stonewalled, our level of confidence decreases. And that's why we have to take the steps that we're taking. We have to conduct our own civil investigation on a so- called parallel track without any cooperation, or else we're not going to be able to get to the truth.

We don't know that were going to get to the truth only with the federal government investigating this.

[20:20:30]

COOPER: I'm wondering, you know, the six prosecutors who are said to have resigned, though the Attorney General says they were actually fired. It seems were being pressured or told to investigate the Good family. I'm wondering when you heard that, that the government, the federal government was focusing not necessarily on the actions of any federal officer on the scene, but the Goods, their connections, their communications, I suppose. What did you think?

ROMANUCCI: Well, first of all, I mean, it's laughable to think that that the goods that either Renee or Rebecca would be investigated. They are the victims, we're not going to victim blame here. There was a shooter who shot someone who was killed. That's who needs to be investigated.

These prosecutors followed the rules. We all have to follow rules on a daily basis. And prosecutors know that there are rules when there's police involved shooting with a federal officer. And they know that the rules weren't followed. And I don't think it's a coincidence that they resigned. That's because they know that rules weren't followed.

COOPER: How important are the statements made by the President of the United States, by the Director of Homeland Security very quickly after the shooting, labeling Miss Good a domestic terrorist or, you know, all the allegations that were made, all the comments that were made about her, what part, if any, does that play in your lawsuit?

ROMANUCCI: Well, certainly it plays a part in the lawsuit, Anderson, because to come out and to serve judgment, to render a verdict, to conclude something without a rational basis, without facts is very disturbing. And it hurt the family very much to have her labeled those words that they labeled her as. And I won't dignify in repeating those words, because that's slanderous, I believe. She should not be labeled that because Rebecca and Renee are good people.

Renee is a housewife. She is a mother. She's a daughter. She's a sister. She is many things to many people, not what the government labeled her as.

COOPER: Kristi Noem, Director of Homeland Security, Secretary of Homeland Security, hours very quickly after the shooting, had said that, Miss Good had been following these ICE agents for a long period of time for much of the day, there had been reporting she had dropped a child off at school. I believe the shooting took place around 9:30 A.M. local time. Can you clarify whether or not Miss Good had, in fact been following those ICE agents for a long period of time.

ROMANUCCI: Well, if she had been following the ICE agents and Kristi Noem has that information, then we'll look forward to seeing it. We want to know was she was she followed? Was she tailed? Was there video of this? How long has she been following them?

We know where Renee was. She was on Portland and 33rd and 34th. So, what else is it that they know that we should know? If they have information, be transparent about it. Let's hear it. Let's see it.

COOPER: Antonio Romanucci, I appreciate you talking to you tonight. Thank you.

ROMANUCCI: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Coming up next, we'll have more on the federal effort to quell the protests in Minneapolis and the local backlash to it.

We'll be joined by our own CNN legal and law enforcement analysts, as well as former Minneapolis police chief. As our breaking news coverage continues.

Also, sending a signal or planning for action, the U.S. takes a big step toward ramping up military pressure on Iran, a day after the commander in chief appeared to back off.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:28:26]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: I expect what's going to happen here now Anderson, is they're going to push us back. They go right to the line here and then here we go. They're moving back. And you can see some of them are Customs and Border --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was about 10 to 15 minutes ago. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz outside the Whipple Federal Building in Minneapolis, scene of a string of clashes throughout the day in a week since Renee Good was shot and killed.

Protesters face to face with federal officers tonight, who moved up to meet them, then pulled back. Officers who now outnumber the Minneapolis Police several times over.

The city's mayor last night called the situation not sustainable and impossible. I want to talk about that with CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig, also CNN law enforcement analyst and former secret service agent Jonathan Wackrow and former Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo.

Elie, how broad is the Insurrection Act, if the President was to invoke that?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Astonishingly broad and I think broader than people realize and broader than even the name suggests. So, the President can deploy the military under the insurrection if there's an insurrection or rebellion, as you or I or any normal person might understand it.

But also, the President can deploy the military if he believes its necessary to enforce federal law. That's remarkably broad. And the other thing to know about the Insurrection Act is the courts have made clear that they are going to defer heavily, perhaps entirely, to the President. There is a decision. It's old, it's from the 1800s where the Supreme Court said the decision to invoke the Insurrection Act is uniquely the President's, and its binding on everyone else. So, if he does this, if he takes this precipitous step, he's going to have a lot of leeway and I think the courts are going to defer to him.

And so people understand just one other thing, if the president invokes the Insurrection Act, that means the military, not just the National Guard, but Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, will be patrolling the streets of Minneapolis as if they were police officers. That's the impact of this.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Chief Arradondo, what would an invocation of this Insurrection Act and the involvement of the military, as Elie just pointed out, what would it mean, in your opinion, for the situation on the streets of Minneapolis?

MEDARIA ARRADONDO, FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: Yes, Anderson, and it was very good to hear Elie's legal explanation of that. It's going to be impactful. As you had mentioned, Anderson, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey yesterday used the word that what is currently going on right now, without the Insurrection Act, it's not sustainable.

Chief O'Hara's got 600 complement of Minneapolis police officers who still have to do their day-to-day 911 duties to bring in these federalized soldiers, as Elie mentioned, who will now have policing powers. That is going to be a lot for Minneapolitans coming off the five years after the murder of George Floyd, trying to be in a position to heal and recover.

You know, I also thought, Anderson, Shimon's piece about not seeing Minneapolis police officers in those particular situations as it relates to those federal officers, I think it's very intentional. Chief O'Hara wants to make sure that his department is not the focus of these federal actions right now.

And so, it is going to be, if they come in to Minneapolis, and by the way, to Elie's point again, city officials and state officials should start preparing for that inevitability or possibility, they should start preparing for that because it's going to look very different to have those amount of federal soldiers in Minneapolis also doing police-related activity.

COOPER: Jonathan, I mean, Governor Walz gave the Minnesota National Guard what he called a warning order last week to be staged and ready to support local law enforcement. What happens if Governor Walz activates the National Guard and President Trump invokes the Insurrection Act?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Anderson, last week I actually stated that what we were witnessing was an operational gap in public safety in Minneapolis. The deployment of federal troops by the President under the Insurrection Act and the National Guard being deployed by the governor would actually create a massive operational fissure that the consequences would be significant.

And what we really see is this major shift between civil policing to federalized control, where law enforcement capabilities would be enacted by members of the military under the Insurrection Act in moving support and command authority to the military. So what does that mean? It means that federal troops would then be able to perform direct law enforcement functions, something that we have not seen before.

And when we talk about direct law enforcement functions in the context of the environment of Minneapolis today, that is crowd control, curfews, checkpoints. All security and zone security can be really federally directed. So this is a significant shift in local agencies such as the state police as well as the Minneapolis local police will find themselves either taking just a sidecar role or a subordinate role to this federal action.

So again, from a command and control and an operational standpoint, this is a seismic shift in the public safety posture for the community of Minneapolis.

COOPER: Elie, we heard the Homeland Secretary Kristi Noem essentially saying that ICE can ask people to validate their identity, their citizenship. She says this only would occur if they're targeting, in a law enforcement operation, they're targeting a criminal, in her words, and someone was nearby. Then, of course, ICE can ask for identity of anybody nearby.

HONIG: She's wrong on two counts. So first of all, ICE, in order to stop, detain and question someone, even very briefly, needs reasonable suspicion. Now, that's a low bar, but it's not nothing. You have to be able to show what we call articulable suspicion, meaning you have to be able to explain why did I stop this person? Why did I have some reason to believe this person's here illegally?

It can't just be they happen to be standing near the scene of arrest. Kristi Noem also suggested, well, that's standard operating procedure. Anytime there's an arrest, we're going to question everyone who's in the area.

I was a prosecutor for 14 years. That's just false. I don't know where she's getting it, but she's wrong. And to randomly stop people, to go door to door, to set up checkpoints is flagrantly unconscionable.

COOPER: And if somebody asks for your citizenship, do you have -- what are your rights?

HONIG: You know, generally speaking, unless there's some other reason they are there to interrogate you, unless they have some other basis to interrogate you, you don't have to turn it over.

[20:35:01]

I mean, look, I don't want to give advice to people out here because I don't trust what's happening on the streets there, so people have to make their own decisions. But technically, that request itself would be unconstitutional.

COOPER: All right. Elie Honig, thank you. Jonathan Wackrow, Chief Arradondo, I appreciate it.

Up next, our Political Analyst Maggie Haberman of the New York Times weighs in on the situation in Minneapolis and the White House.

And later, Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Carina Machado gives her Nobel Peace Prize medal to President Trump today. What else she's revealing about their White House meeting ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Our breaking news tonight, tensions flaring in Minneapolis. Protesters facing off with federal agents outside a federal building there. It was the backdrop today to the president's threat, as we've been discussing, to invoke the Insurrection Act.

Joining me now is CNN Political Analyst Maggie Haberman, White House Correspondent for the New York Times. So Maggie, the president has threatened to invoke this Insurrection Act before. Do you think he's more serious this time?

[20:40:01]

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I do, Anderson, and I think that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to, but I certainly would take him seriously. He has been edging toward this for some time. He has been talking about it more frequently as the last several weeks have gone on.

And I think that this was moving toward this moment once he sent in National Guard troops into Los Angeles, and there was the likelihood of increased interaction between protesters and federal law enforcement officials, or ICE agents, or others. But, again, most people who have served in federal law enforcement, will argue this is not yet, anyway, what we're seeing, a situation that would call for the Insurrection Act.

It has been used before. It is a broad power that he has. He has wanted to use it. I think we will have to see how escalated things get in Minnesota.

COOPER: Do you think there's a lot of support around the president for doing that?

HABERMAN: I think there is a mixed level of support around the president for doing that. I think there are some people who absolutely want to do it. There is generally a feeling, you know, in the West Wing that things took too long in 2020 when protests in response to George Floyd's killing in -- also in Minnesota, raged around the country and were ongoing around Washington.

But again, there is a different middle ground between not going into a state at all and then, you know, deploying active duty troops. So regardless, Anderson, even if there is mixed sentiment around the president, which there is based on my reporting, people are going to do what he wants this term. This is not term one, where there were these, you know, massive fights over what was going to happen the same way.

COOPER: The president, as we reported, met today with the Venezuelan opposition leader, Maria Machado. She gave him her Nobel Peace Prize medal, which he's obviously long wanted, long complained about not winning.

HABERMAN: Right.

COOPER: It doesn't mean he won the Nobel Prize, but he has the medal. I just want to play some clips of what he has said in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think I'm going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things if they gave it out fairly, which they don't. Well, they gave one to Obama immediately upon his ascent to the presidency, and he had no idea why he got it.

They will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you have --

TRUMP: It's too bad. I deserve it, but they will never give it to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you rate your chances of winning the Nobel Peace Prize tomorrow?

TRUMP: Well, I don't know. Look, I made seven deals, and now it's eight. I don't know what they're going to do, really. But I know this, that nobody in history has solved eight wars.

The person who actually got the Nobel Prize called today, called me, and said, I'm accepting this in honor of you, because you really deserved it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the president posted this tonight, saying, "It was my great honor to meet Maria Carina Machado of Venezuela today. She's a wonderful woman who's been through so much. Maria presented me with her Nobel Peace Prize for the work I've done. Such a wonderful gesture of mutual respect. Thank you, Maria."

Previously, he had said she wasn't, you know, the person to run the country, that she doesn't have the support. What are you hearing about how any of this played out today?

HABERMAN: Look, he's very happy with the meeting. It was cordial. It doesn't change much, as best as I can tell, about the long-term goal for Machado and her backers, which is that she is going to be able to have some kind of a role leading the country. She's not incredibly highly thought of by a lot of the people around the president. And they have made -- the White House has made this, you know, gamble on Delcy Rodriguez taking over, who was vice president to Nicolas Maduro. So I don't think giving him the Peace Prize is going -- the statue anyway is going to change that. It does, however, mean that he might not criticize her, and that could end up having some effect in the longer term about possible elections and what it could look like.

But, Anderson, I don't think that today changes, just based on everything I've heard, I don't think today changes the trajectory. But, again, you know, he is sort of operating day to day in what he is saying publicly about Venezuela. So we shall see.

COOPER: Maggie Haberman, as always, thank you very much.

Up next, more breaking news. A source saying the U.S. Navy is now moving a carrier group to the Middle East due to rising tensions with Iran. We have the latest on what may be happening in the region. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:48:33]

COOPER: Well, more breaking news tonight. A source tells CNN that the Pentagon is now moving a carrier strike group, most likely led by the USS Abraham Lincoln, to the Middle East. It is due to the anti- government uprising, obviously, in Iran and the regime's brutal crackdown on protesters.

At least 2,400 people reportedly have been killed by security forces, though the actual number, frankly, is not known and may be much higher. President Trump has warned the U.S. will help protesters if the killings continue. And the White House says all options are on the table. But tonight, sources say that Israel and several Gulf states have asked the White House to hold off on striking Iran.

I'm joined by Democratic Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander of New Hampshire. She's a member of the Armed Services Committee and was a Navy intelligence officer. Congresswoman, thanks for being here.

The deployment of this carrier group to the Middle East would suggest at least being in a forward posture that would allow military action. President Trump has really ratcheted down his rhetoric in the past 24 hours, especially after he was allegedly told by Iran that they would halt the executions of prisoners. Where do you think this is headed?

REP. MAGGIE GOODLANDER (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Anderson, I think part of the challenge of this moment is it's anyone's guess. The president has been dizzying in the cavalier way that he's talked about the use of force and the way that he's deployed military force.

Look, there is a strong bipartisan coalition in Congress who shares his basic view that the Iranian regime is a brutal and determined enemy of the United States. And the president should work with Congress on a bipartisan basis to make sound decisions that are rooted in facts and that are in the best interest of the American people. Unfortunately, that has not happened.

[20:50:12]

COOPER: Does it seem to you that the U.S. has many options to effect change on the ground in Tehran and throughout the country? Obviously, you know, Internet has been shut down. Communication is very difficult for protesters. The president has encouraged, you know, days ago, protesters to continue protesting, try to take over government offices, security apparatuses. Do you think the U.S. could do much if they wanted to?

GOODLANDER: You know, we've got the most extraordinary military that the world has ever known. Our capabilities are truly unmatched. The president has not worked with Congress in the way that we've seen presidents throughout our history work with Congress to really come forward with a sound plan.

Look, the Iranian people are showing extraordinary courage. I represent a state, the state of New Hampshire, whose motto is live free or die. And what we see happening in Iran is inspiring, and we stand with the Iranian people. But if the president is going to deploy military force, he needs to have good reasons and clear answers to questions that he's going to -- he needs to account for to the American people.

COOPER: Yes.

GOODLANDER: What comes next, and what are we really going to achieve here. We're putting American lives on the line.

COOPER: We've learned that U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro's office is investigating you and other veterans serving in Congress who appeared in that highly publicized video in which you, you know, informed service members they don't have to follow illegal orders. Do you plan on sitting for an interview with federal investigators? Is it clear to you what law they think you might have broken?

GOODLANDER: Anderson, I worked at the Justice Department for years, and in this job in Congress, I work alongside law enforcement every day. If there is a legitimate investigation, I will, of course, participate in it. But what's happened here is that the president has targeted us for doing our jobs.

We said something very clearly and simply. We stated an uncontroversial principle of American law at a moment when we need clarity, moral clarity and legal clarity in this country now more than ever before. The president's response to this was to become so unglued that he threatened violence against us, and now the Department of Justice is targeting us for doing our jobs.

There is no crime here. It is not a crime for me to do my job. It is my solemn responsibility, and it's me upholding my oaths to the Constitution, which is what I plan to do and will do every day that I am blessed to be serving in this role.

COOPER: Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Joining us now is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk. He previously served as Middle East and North Africa coordinator for the National Security Council. Brett, first of all, what do you make of this mixed signals, if it is that, from the White House in the last 24 to 48 hours about the plan for Iran?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think, Anderson, we previewed some of this on Tuesday night because we said to do a strike in Iran, it's going to be a significant operation. And, you know, I'm thinking I was serving in the Trump administration when he did his first military operation in the Middle East in Syria in 2017.

Bashar al-Assad had used chemical weapons against his own people. President Trump fired 59 Tomahawk missiles at the air base where that strike had taken place. Kind of a one and done. Iran is very different. And in being in the planning of this in the Situation Room, the nomenclature is turns. So turn one would be our strike.

And unlike Syria, in which they don't have really an option to respond against us, Iran does have some options. So you have to be prepared not only for the strike, then the Iranian response, and then what you call a turn three. And that would be a much more significant operation.

Bottom line, you can't do all that without a carrier strike group, an aircraft carrier in the Middle East region. We don't have one. So I think what happened here is as all the facts came in and other regional partners are weighing in, as you're reporting and just said, the president held back. But now there is an aircraft carrier coming in.

The dynamic in Iran has not changed, Anderson. I think Iran might be telling people through diplomatic channels they're not going to execute anybody, they're going to stop the massacres in the streets. I doubt that's going to happen. This regime is still the regime. So I think this has some time to play out.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, I heard in the past the Iranian regime, not only do they hang people, but they don't hang people by dropping them. They hang people by raising them --

MCGURK: Cranes, yes.

COOPER: -- with cranes, which is particularly gruesome because it doesn't break somebody's neck instantly. It's a slower, more painful, agonizing death as somebody suffocates to death. So the idea that they there would somehow halt these executions, you know, last night we talked to John Bolton from a national security adviser. He said that he thought, you know, the president emphasizing that Iran said, you know, that they'd halted executions amounted to, in Bolton's words, Trump looking for an off-ramp.

[20:55:08]

MCGURK: Maybe. Look, this is what Iran does. Their regime is the regime. They spread terrorism. They repress their own people. That is the system. That is the supreme leader. That is the Revolutionary Guards.

But then they also send out their diplomats. Abbas Araghchi, their foreign minister, was on Fox News yesterday kind of sending messages to the United States. They send messages through back channels. I'm sure they're in direct contact through their foreign ministry.

I've dealt with those Iranian diplomats. I've also dealt with some of their intelligence officials in hostage negotiations. But the regime is the regime, Anderson. They rule by brutal oppression. And this -- the protests in the streets might pause because they can be suppressed because they've been mowed down over the last five days, tragically. But this is going to continue.

And the fact that we are moving military forces into the region tells me that, you know, the decision-making here is still very dynamic. And I think if Iran does make a wrong move, the president still has some options. So, again, I look at that Syria example in 2017, which I very much lived through. I was working on Syria at the time.

But here you've got to be prepared for that turn two and turn three, and you're going to need more assets in the region. So, Anderson, this has a ways to play out, I think.

COOPER: Yes, and I think it was you who pointed out days ago that the Iranian revolution in '79, I mean, that took place over the course of a year, which I had --

MCGURK: Yes.

COOPER: -- completely forgotten about. I was much younger during then and wasn't a reporter. But I looked it up. I mean, that's a fascinating statistic. Again, I think I've said this is the beginning of the end of the Islamic Republic. I think change is coming for a number of reasons. They've lost support of their people.

This is going to continue. The supreme leader --

COOPER: Yes.

MCGURK: -- who's 86 years old, there will likely be a secession crisis once he passes from the scene. So this is all moving. And --

COOPER: Yes.

MCGURK: -- the U.S. has some options, but I don't think the president's decided exactly what to do. That's very clear.

COOPER: Brett McGurk, I appreciate it. Thank you.

MCGURK: Thank you.

COOPER: In a few minutes at 9:15 p.m. Eastern Time is my new streaming show about grief and loss called All There Is. We took a break over the holidays, but this is the first show of the new year. I hope you watch it. At 9:15 p.m., you head over to CNN.com/AllThereIs. That's where you watch it online. It's the companion program to my podcast, All There Is.

I recently sat down with legendary rock musician, writer, and poet Patti Smith, who's experienced a lot of loss in her life, including her husband, Fred Sonic Smith, and then her brother, and before that, her closest friend. Here's just a part of our conversation about a song she wrote, and I wanted to play it for her and talk to her about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The song you wrote for Fred, it's on the album "Gone Again." It's called "Farewell Real," and I just want to play a little bit of that if that's OK.

PATTI SMITH, SINGER-SONGWRITER AND POET: OK.

SMITH: This little song is for Fred. It's G, C, D, and D minor.

(SINGING)

SMITH: Sorry.

COOPER: It's beautiful. You don't have to say sorry. As Francis Weller says, those tears are holy.

SMITH: It's so sad, but also optimistic. It was nice to hear it. It's just - it's so heartbreaking, really.

COOPER: I love it.

SMITH: I remember so much, you know, every line writing that, and they're all like, I don't know how to express it. They're true. Every line in that is true.

COOPER: There's a purity to it.

SMITH: Yes.

COOPER: That's the word I can put it (ph).

SMITH: Yes, it's just true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Grief never goes away, but you're not alone in it. I hope you join me tonight and join others who will be watching tonight in 15 minutes for All There Is Live. You can watch it online at CNN.com/AllThereIs. Again, 15 minutes from now, CNN.com/AllThereIs.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.