Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Father and Five-Year-Old Son Held in Federal Custody in Texas; Federal Agents Spray Chemicals Amid Clashes with Protesters; Vance: Minneapolis would be "Less Chaotic" with Cooperation; Trump Wraps Up Davos Trip After Key Meetings On Greenland, Gaza & Ukraine; Few European Allies Sign Onto Trump's "Board Of Peace"; Jack Smith Defends Trump Criminal Cases In Fiery Hearing; Father And 5-Year-Old Son Held In Federal Custody In Texas; 230 Plus Million People Under Alerts For Ice, Snow, Freezing Temps. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 22, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: ... pockets close to two feet of snow, big snowfall footprint and the ice. Again, this potentially -- we're talking dangerous cold and the catastrophic ice damage with the ice accumulation, Erin, means people could be in that cold out of power for several days.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It's unbelievable considering some of those numbers that you were sharing, we can only imagine with the windchill and what that would mean in certain parts of countries, so truly life- threatening for some.

Thank you so much, Chris.

And thanks for joining us, AC 360 starts now.

[20:00:36]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, a five-year-old boy in custody along with his dad, what it says about the tactics ICE and federal agents are using to grab as many people as they can.

Also tonight, we've seen all kinds of chemical sprays being used on protesters and passersby, green ones and yellow ones. Take a look at this guy who got sprayed point blank in the face while he was pinned to the ground. What are these chemicals? We'll look into that tonight.

And get ready for scenes like these across half the country. The latest and what people in two dozen states are facing from a massive winter storm that's gathering force as we speak.

Good evening.

We begin tonight with this little boy now in federal custody, along with his dad. A preschooler who is now separated from his mom. His name is Liam Conejo Ramos. He's five years old.

By now, millions have probably seen this image of him dressed for Minnesota winter in a blue bunny hat, or this one of him at the door of his home in the Minneapolis suburb of Columbia Heights, a masked federal agent standing behind him.

Tonight, we have a fuller picture, though by no means a complete one, and there are conflicting accounts of what was happening in this moment. We do know that his dad picked him up and drove him back from a nearby preschool Tuesday afternoon. An attorney for the family, along with two local school officials provided some new details this evening about what happened after the agent showed up.

The School Board Chair, Mary Granlund says she saw what transpired at the door.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY GRANLUND, SCHOOL BOARD CHAIR, COLUMBIA HEIGHTS PUBLIC SCHOOLS: So, I was on my way to get my own children from school, and I heard the commotion and saw all the people. And as I got out of my car and came around the corner, I heard, "What are you doing? Don't take the child." His mom -- like there are people here that can take him, there was another adult who lived in the home that was there saying, "I will take the child. I will take the child."

Somebody else was yelling. They saw that I was there and said, "The school is here. They can take the child. You don't have to take them." And there were -- there was ample opportunity to be able to safely hand that child off to adults and mom was there. She saw out the window and dad was yelling, "Please do not open the door."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Late today, the Department of Homeland Security posted its own account online, quoting from it now, "Our officers made multiple attempts to get the mother inside the house to take custody of her child. Officers even assured her that they would not take her into custody. She refused to accept custody of the child. The father told officers he wanted the child to remain with him."

Earlier today, Vice-President Vance, who was in Minneapolis, offered his own account.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, (R) VICE-PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm a father of a five-year-old actually, a five-year-old little boy. And I think to myself, oh my God, this is terrible. How did we arrest a five-year-old? Well, I do a little bit more follow up research, and what I find is that the five-year-old was not arrested, that his dad was an illegal alien and then when they went to arrest his illegal alien father, the father ran.

So, the story is that ICE detained a five-year-old. What are they supposed to do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, keeping them honest, according to the family attorney today, Liam and his dad were not in the country unlawfully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liam and his dad did enter the United States at a port of entry to seek asylum through the CBP One app at the Brownsville Border Crossing. So, they did everything right when they came in.

They used the app, they made an appointment, they came to the border and presented themselves to Customs and Border Patrol.

They've shared all of their information with the government, and they were following the process. These are not illegal aliens. They came properly. They came legally and are pursuing a legal pathway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, according to him, Liam's dad was not, as the Vice- President called him, an illegal alien. The attorney also says he could find no record he had committed any crimes in Minnesota and DHS, they've not made mention of any criminal charges or convictions, which you think they would have, or the Vice President would have if there were any.

In any case, Liam's father, at least at this point, does not appear to be the type of migrant the administration has said repeatedly that it is focusing on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Remember when they used to say that the people that come into our country as immigrants are very nice people. They're wonderful people. They don't commit crime. No, they make our criminals look like babies. They make our Hells' Angels look like the sweetest people on earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: CNN's Sara Sidner has more on all this, joins us now from Minneapolis.

So, what else is the family saying and how does it track with what the government is now saying?

[20:05:21]

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, we are not hearing from the family. Even the attorney said that he has not been able to speak directly with the father who has been detained with his son, had been taken to a detention center in Texas, the Dilley Center.

What we are, though learning, is a huge chasm between what DHS and Vice-President Vance said while on the ground here ground here in Minneapolis happened with this family and what people who were there to witness it and the attorney for the family is saying. What we are hearing is from a very emotional superintendent and member

of the school board. The member of the school board said she was simply going home from work. She noticed the commotion outside of this home. She stopped and she says, look, in hearing Vance say that this child was going to be left to freeze to death because there was no one that could take the child and the father had tried to flee. She is like, that's simply not true.

Everyone knew that the mother was on the other side of the door. She was being told by her husband, do not open the door to ICE. There is absolutely no trust in the immigrant community here about ICE and ICE telling her at the same time, we are not going to detain you, open the door.

She simply did not believe them and was terrified because her other child had not made it home from school yet as well. He is in seventh grade. She was waiting for him and concerned that she would be taken no matter what ICE says.

And then you have these two members, officials from the school district who were on the ground saying, we will take the child and make sure the child is in a safe place. That is our duty.

So, there was never a time that this child was just going to be left as J.D. Vance put it, the Vice-President to freeze to death in the street. So, there is a lot of frustration and we know from those on the ground who are talking with the mother, the officials from the school that she is absolutely beside herself and distraught about all of this.

We also know the way that J.D. Vance just today described the father, that he's an illegal alien, that he was someone that was trying to flee. That is absolutely not what we are hearing from the attorney who said he has gone through the exact legal process that he is supposed to go through to be in this country and ask for asylum. The family is from Ecuador.

I also want you just to hear from the superintendent who said, look, when she got on the scene, she offered her help very plainly and clearly to the ICE agents there. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZENA STENVIK, SUPERINTENDENT COLUMBIA HEIGHTS SCHOOL DISTRICT: So, when I exited my vehicle, I immediately said, "Where's the child? Where's the child?" That's what I was there to do, is to collect the child and return him safely to school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: She was there. She offered her help. No one would take her help.

At this point, you have a family that has been torn apart and you have deep, deep, deep concern in this entire community, including with the mayor who I just spoke with, who has a five-year-old son himself who says, "I just cannot let myself imagine the fear and terror that this child is going through after going through all of that."

COOPER: Yes, Sara Sidner, thanks for being there. Appreciate it.

Joining me now is Minneapolis Police Chief, Brian O'Hara.

Chief, the five-year-old boy was obviously taken from your jurisdiction down to Texas. Have federal authorities given you any information about what may happen?

BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: No, Anderson. We've received no communication whatsoever regarding that child.

COOPER: And I assume that's common. I mean, we saw a video of a woman being dragged out of her car. She said she was just headed to the doctor. It obviously raises questions about the level of probable cause for some of these stops, and the extent to which this operation is targeted or more haphazard.

What do you -- what are your biggest concerns right now? I mean, we've talked now for many times, you know, since all of this began. Where do you see this going? What are you seeing out on the streets?

O'HARA: Yes, well, I've said for several weeks that my concern has been that a tragedy would happen and that's already passed. We've lost a human life and as time continues to go on now, it appears that the pressure just continues to build.

And my concern is that we are heading to a point, that can be very explosive. You know, these instances that you mentioned, obviously, with the five-year-old child and I don't know what their training or policies are, but at least best practices and local policing is, number one, the safety of the child that young; and number two, trying to do everything that you can so as to not retraumatize or traumatize that child.

[20:10:13]

The other arrest that you mentioned with the woman in her car, obviously, to anyone who watches it is clearly just a lot of confusion and chaos on the scene. It appears that the officers are not -- don't seem to be coordinated, don't seem to be working well together. There seems to be conflicting commands, and it just doesn't seem to be tactically sound.

And we've seen enough instances of this over and over and over again, in addition to complaints from United States citizens who feel that they've been stopped inappropriately or unlawfully, to know that there is a problem here and, you know, no one in law enforcement in Minnesota is saying that the federal law enforcement should not be doing their jobs. No one here in law enforcement is saying that.

What we are saying is we expect federal law enforcement to be doing their jobs lawfully and professionally to the same level of service that we demand of our officers here, that's the concern.

COOPER: Theres video of Border Patrol Chief Gregory Bovino tossing a canister toward a crowd, and then a cloud of chemicals blows back on him and other officers. If you saw your officers, you know, doing the kind of tactics that we are routinely now seeing from Border Patrol and ICE and whoever these masked men are, I mean, obviously, it sounds like you would be concerned. You would not --

I mean, it sounds like you would need to talk to those officers about their tactics.

O'HARA: Well, clearly, I think there's videos of tactics of, you know, force being used in ways that do not align at all with Minneapolis Police policy or in general, law enforcement training in the state of Minnesota.

And so, you know, the cops in this town have worked very hard over the last five years to try and rebuild the trust that was completely lost in 2020.

Those officers lived for years through a time where, you know, they couldn't even go to local businesses and feel welcome. They felt ostracized wherever they went in this city. They worked very, very hard to change the relationship with the community, and the concern is that what is happening here today is jeopardizing their hard work.

COOPER: Chief Brian O'Hara, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

On the ground in Minneapolis, there have been more videos of masked federal officers, as I said, using chemical agents against protesters who just show you there Gregory Bovino tossing some. Last week, a video of a family trying to get home from their son's basketball game found themselves trapped in a protest and their car was gassed.

The mother had to perform CPR on her infant. That's them taking the kids out of the car. DHS said they did not intend to target that family, but it shows the dangers of the tactics being used.

When pressed on ICE's increased presence and harsh tactics today, Vice-President J.D. Vance told a reporter this about what people may be perceiving.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: I'm sure that people are seeing a lot of things that would make any member of our community feel very upset. But I also think that if you understand this in context, this is the inevitable consequence of a state and local government that have decided that they're not going to cooperate with immigration enforcement at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: CNN's Josh Campbell joins us with more. Can you just walk us through what the different chemical agents are that we are seeing what they're intended for, to be used for, how they're being used? And we saw that cloud of green, that we showed viewers last night. Is it clear to you what that was?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT Well, it was either tear gas or smoke. I mean, these invisible gases, they'll have dye added to them so that officers can see the direction that they are actually going whenever they're launched. But, you know, one big criticism that we heard -- we've continued to hear is how these types of agents are being deployed, these so-called less lethal munitions to try to disperse some of these crowds.

You played the video there a moment ago of this family who said that they were trying to get home after a basketball game. They weren't part of any demonstrations and yet you see them kind of enveloped in this cloud of teargas and children that were trying to run through, that to safety, ranging in age from six months to 11 years old. That's the video there that we're playing for you.

And so, that's really fueled a lot of the controversy that were seeing here. One thing I'll note, Anderson, is, you know, I talked to law enforcement sources all the time. Even people in law enforcement are raising questions about these tactics. They say these agents don't have advanced training in how to do this type of stuff. And so, that's why we continue to see so many of these controversial encounters.

COOPER: I want to, just play again this Border Patrol Chief, Greg Bovino, throwing the canister into the crowd. He's changed out of his, like, Field Marshal coat, and he's wearing a more of a tactical outfit. There's a lot of uniform changes it seems like with DHS sometimes, but let's play that video again.

[20:15:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY BOVINO, U.S. BORDER PATROL SECTOR CHIEF OF THE EL CENTRO SECTOR IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: Gas is coming, gas is coming. Second warning, second warning, third warning.

(CHIEF THROWING GAS TO PROTESTERS.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, it looks like the canister basically started blowing back onto the officers. What do you make of the tactics you're seeing? I just talked to the Chief there, you know, sounds like he would be upset if his officers were using these kinds of tactics.

CAMPBELL: Yes, I mean, you always want to account for wind direction, right? When you're launching these kinds of less lethal munitions and a lot of the videos that we see raise a lot of those questions about the tactics.

I will note, though, that what we just saw from Gregory Bovino, he actually appears to be using more restraint than his own officers are in many other instances. He gives the warning multiple times. He then warns his own team that he's about to, you know, to throw the canister.

He has become such a lightning rod, though, often showing up at the scenes of some of these encounters. He's been seen on video questioning people about their immigration status seemingly at random. They don't appear to be the target of specific enforcement operations.

But the thing to note here is that this has become so political that you have to wonder if The White House sees those kinds of images and doesn't actually prefer to see that kind of activity out there, you know, this kind of heavy handedness.

COOPER: Yes, well, he's certainly aware he's on camera here. We also saw a video of someone being sprayed at close range with something yellow color. I mean, is this, I can't imagine this stuff is meant to be sprayed directly into somebody's eyeballs or into their face. I mean, it looks like he's being sprayed behind his glasses into the side of his face.

CAMPBELL: Yes, I mean, it depends on the circumstance. I think I've watched this video of the same incident multiple times from different angles. It appears that this man was resisting for quite a while, as officers were trying to take him into custody. We don't know why they were trying to arrest him. There was this unruly crowd that was around when this was happening.

Once they spray him, he then does appear to comply. And I will also note, I mean, just out of fairness, this video we're seeing here, I think this is the one video I've seen so far that actually kind of makes the case for the ICE agents, and that is because we actually saw some of these protesters coming up trying to body check the agents.

At one point, someone actually kicks back teargas back into a group of agents. Those kinds of demonstrators, this is a very small number, obviously. I think they're playing with legal fire, right, when they're actually, you know, using their body, pushing up against these agents. But of course, this pales in comparison to so many of the other videos that we've seen of ICE agents appearing to do questionable things.

For example, we saw the video of an ICE agent throwing a man into oncoming traffic who appeared to be impeding them, and so, certainly a lot more controversial videos that are out there, and they'll be likely more to come.

COOPER: Yes, Josh Campbell, I appreciate the distinction. Thanks so much.

Just ahead, the President returning from his trip overseas with accomplishments he's pointing to in a trail of diplomatic concern for allies to deal with.

Later, former Special Counsel Jack Smith today defending the two criminal cases he brought against the President and one of the crime scenes, the Capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: President Trump was charged because the evidence established that he willfully broke the law, the very laws he took an oath to uphold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:22:39]

COOPER: Even as the administration defends taking a five-year-old and his father into custody, Vice-President Vance is also justifying the broader federal presence in Minneapolis, calling out a "level of chaos" that he says is unique to the city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: There are a lot of things that all of us could do better to lower the temperature, but the number one thing that I learned today is that the best way to facilitate reasonable enforcement of the law, but also to lower the chaos in Minneapolis would be for state and local officials to cooperate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I want to get some perspective now from two CNN senior political commentators, former special adviser to President Obama, Van Jones, and former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.

David, I mean, is it acceptable that a five-year-old boy and his dad, whom DHS hasn't accused of having outstanding criminal charges, are still in custody tonight? Is that making America safer?

DAVID URBAN, SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, you know, Anderson, I understand that the feeling is, you know, Trump said, let's go after the bad hombres and I think that is who we should be going after first, right?

And that picture there is incredibly sad and tragic and unfortunate that little Liam and his and his dad got grabbed up. But, you know, the narrative today was, you know, kind of out-of-control that Liam was -- you know, the original narrative kind of got out-of-control, right?

What happened was by all accounts, his father fled. These gentlemen took -- the ICE agents took Liam there. They went to the front door tried to get his mom to take him. His mother didn't want to take him. His father said, no, send him with me. They reunited.

The ICE agents took him to McDonald's and got him a meal, tried to tried to keep him calm and --

COOPER: Do you think the mom really didn't want to take him? Or do you think she was scared to open the door for masked people?

URBAN: Well, you know, I know, Anderson, what the report says is the father asked the boy to come with him and not be left with the mother. That's what the reports say, not the superintendent.

So, there's lots of, you know, lots of different angles here, but to your to your bigger point, Anderson, you know, should we be scooping up these individuals versus the worst, right.

I think Americans, what Americans want to see is really bad criminals taken off the street, gang members, drug dealers, et cetera.

COOPER: Right, because by all accounts, according to this attorney, he actually went through the process legally. I mean, he went at no point -- he did all he was supposed to do.

URBAN: No, he applied for asylum. He's applied for asylum. You're correct, and so that's the distinction I'm trying to make here, is that, you know, these encounters. He's here illegally still, right?

[20:25:08]

But do people -- this is the big debate in America right now. Do people want to see this? Do they want to see their gardeners? They want to see this gentleman and Liam taken off? Or they do they really want to see, you know, the bad hombres taken out?

But at some point, right, these people are all here illegally. They didn't come legally into our country. And so, at what point, you know, there's a line, right? At what point do we not enforce the law? What point do we enforce the law?

It's a debate we should have, right, we need to have because we're not going to deport 10 million illegal immigrants who are in this country so we have to figure out a better solution to the problem that we're facing.

COOPER: Well, Van, I mean, why wouldn't we deport 10 million, I mean, if you can hire ICE agents and get them trained in 47 days, why not just keep doing that?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I just want to say this is what you're seeing here. This is not about a deportation agenda.

President Barack Obama deported thee million people, three million. The Latin Community called him the "Deporter in Chief" with none of this, with no masked agents, with no children being snatched up without all this nonsense going on, without chemical agents being used against American citizens, three million people.

This is not about deportation. This is not about deporting people. It's about demeaning people. It's about desensitizing people to a level of violence and aggression from government agents that we've never seen before.

American law enforcement -- I'm a law enforcement kid. My dad was a cop in the military. My Uncle Milton, just retired from the police force.

American law enforcement does not dress like robbers. It doesn't matter. Going up against al-Qaeda, faces shown, going up against cartels, faces shown; going up against the Klan, faces shown. Why are they hiding their faces dealing with American citizens, even with protesters?

This is not about deporting people. You can deport three million or 10 million people the way that Barack Obama did it, pissed off a lot of people, but it was done lawfully, professionally, and with none of this.

This is about desensitizing Americans to a level of force from the government and demeaning people and demoralizing people. And it needs to stop.

COOPER: And David -- go ahead David.

URBAN: Anderson, yes, I was going to say, you know, Vance is correct. Obama did deport lots of people, but it was done differently, right? It was done differently because Barack Obama was deporting people as soon as they came across the border or when they were just inside the interior of America for a tiny bit.

What has happened here because of the lack of -- the Biden administration's total open border policy, none of these people are still on the border. They've now filtered into our cities. They've gone into different places, sanctuary cities and the like, and they've embedded themselves. And so, it's much more difficult. It's much more emotional for people to see their neighbors being taken away.

During the Obama administration, nobody really cared that much. I mean, nobody -- I shouldn't say nobody but you didn't have neighborhoods caring as much because people were being taken from the border directly and deported immediately. That did not happen. That could not happen in this administration, because what happened in the prior four years, the Biden administration let people pour into the interior.

So, ICE doesn't have good locations of everybody. So, it does make a complete difference as to why people have their faces covered is because they're being doxed, these people's lives are being threatened. These agents are being -- they're living in fear for their lives in certain places.

COOPER: Van, do you believe part of this is politics? That, you know, these are Democratic areas that are being targeted.

JONES: Look, I see it very differently in that, first of all, people are terrified to show their faces. They weren't terrified to show their faces against the Klan. American law enforcement, against cartels, American law enforcement against the mob, against the mafia, but they're afraid of being doxed by protesters. That does not make sense.

What's happened is they've gone and hired a bunch of people who should never have been hired in the first place. If you look at how they're recruiting, they're deliberately recruiting people that seem to have some kind of macho or even White nationalist sympathies and then you put people in neighborhoods where they have no accountability.

Look, I'm a law enforcement kid. I also used to sue law enforcement. You always were able to know the agency that was doing it. We don't know who the agency. There's no indication, the badge number, the face. And so, therefore there is some accountability.

Any human system without adequate checks and balances will tend toward corruption and abuse. If you can just be out there anonymously doing whatever you want to wearing a black mask, you are inviting abuse. You're inviting lawlessness from law enforcement.

That's why we're having this incredible reaction from a pretty sleepy town. I mean, this is not Berkeley, California here, this is a pretty sleepy town. But people have erupted in protests and demonstrations because the conduct of these officers is outrageous.

COOPER: We've got to leave it there.

URBAN: Anderson, I would just -- I would just say this really quick, really quickly that these are, these are blue cities because they're sanctuary cities. That's where these people are going. If these cities weren't harboring illegal immigrants, you wouldn't have this kind of conflict. Just cooperate with ICE. You'll see it all go away, that's my suggestion.

JONES: Political theater, risking people's lives.

COOPER: Van Jones, thanks very much.

Coming up next, what to make of the President's trip to Davos? The Board of Peace for Gaza, he launched today and the damage he seems to have done to the NATO alliance over Greenland. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:31]

COOPER: President Trump is due back to Washington shortly after two days in Davos, Switzerland, a trip that saw both the beginning of what he calls his Board of Peace for Gaza and beyond, and perhaps the end of trust of the U.S. and the NATO alliance over his drive to acquire Greenland. The leaders of 19 countries signed the Board of Peace Charter today, almost none from NATO or the E.U.

[20:35:00]

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, who sits on the Foreign Relations Committee, was skeptical. "What a joke," he writes. "Half of these nations are dictatorships that use force, not peace to control their people. The rest are a collection of small countries that are either deeply unhealthy, repressive democracies, and are dependent on the U.S. for assistance."

The President, though, is counting on it to oversee phase 2 of the ceasefire in Gaza, something the U.N. Security Council did sign off on back in November. As for Greenland, it continues to look like what the President accomplished is to launch a renovation of sorts of the existing 1951 treaty, which already gives the U.S. wide latitude to station forces there. All of this from a visit that began with a speech by the President criticizing most of our NATO allies.

Joining us now is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk, who served as a senior adviser to the last four presidents. So Brett, I mean, what, for all the alienation, all the Sturm Und Drang, what actually --

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes.

COOPER: -- then came out of this Greenland fight?

MCGURK: On Greenland, Anderson, I think we previewed it two nights ago that there could be an off-ramp here and it seems that Trump clearly took that. On Greenland, I have to say nothing happened. There's no new agreement. We're going to kind of sit down with the Danes and refresh the 1951 agreement that Truman negotiated with the Danes about Greenland.

That could be good. I think that could be a net positive. But what you really -- to stick with the Arctic analogy, I mean, what you really saw before our eyes, kind of the shift, the glaciers of global power shifting, just this real lack of trust in the United States and the comments of leaders.

Sometimes this is all behind the scenes, but when you have the prime minister of Canada saying publicly that there's been a rupture in the global order and that it's time for Canada to find new -- a new web of connections around the world, what he's talking about is getting out of the web of connections with the alliance with the United States.

It's a very serious statement and it just reminds me of, you know, a middle power like Canada or all of our NATO allies, they're treaty allies of ours. If you're dealing with, say, India or Brazil, Anderson, those are middle powers who hedge all the time. They deal with Russia. They deal with China. And you kind of know that.

But to hear that from our NATO allies, I think, is very concerning. And that's my main takeaway from this Davos summit. I think on Greenland, the President retreated, we're kind of back to where we always could have been. We can get everything we want through the 1951 agreement.

But more concerning is just this perception of a lack of trust in the United States and where that might lead. The President will see Xi Jinping in April. He might see him a few more times this year. I mean, I think this is a big -- 2026 is a huge year for kind of global power and where it's heading. And right now, it's drifting more in the direction of China. And I think that's very concerning.

COOPER: And on the so-called Board of Peace, you know, we said what Chris Murphy -- Senator Murphy was saying about, you know, the kind of the quality of some of the leaders that are on this Board of Peace. It has no NATO allies. I guess they don't want something outside of the U.N. or they're concerned about something outside of the U.N. What -- I mean --

MCGURK: Yes. COOPER: -- what do you make of this Board of Peace?

MCGURK: I mean, underneath the Board of Peace, this came from the Gaza ceasefire deal, which was a continuation of the deal that we did at the end of the Biden administration, endorsed by the U.N. Security Council. As you said, that's all good. I mean, there's an interim Palestinian government in Gaza that's not Hamas endorsed by the Palestinian Authority. That's all very good work.

This Board of Peace kind of edifice is sitting atop it. Again, I don't think it's a great look not to have a single European democracy. One of our key allies there, hopefully, will find a way to have them join. But here again, Anderson, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

You know, the president has two of his envoys, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, in Moscow tonight meeting with President Putin. There will be a trilateral meeting. Zelenskyy announced today in the UAE with Russia, the U.S. and Ukraine, a technical meeting. Again, I'm very skeptical this is going anywhere.

Zelenskyy in his speech today, which was a tour de force, called it Groundhog Day. I hope he's wrong. We need peace in Ukraine. Again, proof of the pudding here, Anderson, it'll be in the eating, where this lands.

COOPER: Yes. Brett McGurk, as always, thank you.

Up next, Former Special Counsel Jack Smith's fiery hearing on Capitol Hill. We have details on that. And the potentially historic winter storm is going to strike more than half of the U.S. beginning tomorrow. We'll check in with CNN Weather Center on where it may be the worst.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:43:40]

COOPER: Former Special Counsel Jack Smith testified at a combative House hearing today on his past investigations of President Trump, namely the attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election and the President's alleged mishandling of classified documents after his first term.

Now, Smith filed federal charges in both cases, which were later abandoned. And despite scathing criticism from committee Republicans, Smith maintained that the then-former president was charged because the evidence showed he'd broken the law.

CNN's Lauren Fox has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D), WASHINGTON: I will never forget the pounding on the doors and the insurrectionists threatening to kill us. LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A big focus of today's questioning, whether Special Counsel Jack Smith and his team pursued their investigations into January 6th and Trump's handling of classified documents without political prejudice.

REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: Did President Biden or anyone in the Biden White House ever direct you to seek retribution against anyone perceived to be Biden's political opponent?

JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: No.

FOX (voice-over): Republicans argued Smith's investigations were political from the outset and sought to discredit the President ahead of his reelection.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: He's got to stop President Trump from running, tie him up in court.

FOX (voice-over): A charge Smith repeatedly denied.

SMITH: I made my decisions without regard to President Trump's political association, activities, beliefs, or candidacy in the 2024 election. Political association, activities, beliefs, or candidacy in the 2024 election.

[20:45:10]

President Trump was charged because the evidence established that he willfully broke the law, the very laws he took an oath to uphold.

FOX (voice-over): Smith focused far more on January 6th because a Florida judge barred him and other Justice Department officials from discussing many of the details of the classified documents case. During more than five hours of testimony, Smith defended his team's work, including their collection of some GOP members' phone records, a major flashpoint for Republicans.

REP. CHIP ROY (R), TEXAS: Mr. Smith, how many members of Congress or the Senate did you subpoena phone toll records? This is an egregious and abusive power it is. It's far more concerning you are clearly targeting American citizens for merely being conservative or supporting the president.

FOX (voice-over): Throughout the hearing, Smith defended his team's tactics in their investigations.

SMITH: The conspiracy that we were investigating, it was relevant to get toll records, to understand the scope of that conspiracy, who they were seeking to coerce, who they were seeking to influence, who was seeking to help them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Smith, what do you want to tell Republicans today?

FOX (voice-over): Smith sat for a closed-door interview with the House Judiciary Committee back in December, but his public remarks Thursday attracted notable audience members and a contentious moment with police officers who'd confronted rioters during the attack at the Capitol.

Representative Troy Nehls, a key ally of the president's, attempted to address them.

REP. TROY NEHLS (R), TEXAS: I can tell you, gentlemen, that the fault does not lie with Donald Trump. It lies with Yogananda Pittman and the U.S. Capitol leadership team. We know, we know they had the intelligence --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fuck this off.

FOX (voice-over): The President also weighing in on Smith's testimony on Truth Social, attacking Smith and saying he should be prosecuted. Democrats responding in real time.

REP. JOE NEGUSE (D), COLORADO: We have a word for this. It's called weaponization. It's called corruption.

FOX (voice-over): Lauren Fox, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman of New York, who sits on the Judiciary Committee, took part in today's hearing with Former Special Counsel Jack Smith. What did you take away from Smith's testimony? I mean, is it just another Rorschach test for a very divided country and people, you know, likely heard or saw what they wanted to hear or see?

REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D), JUDICIARY & HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEES: I don't think so. I think if anybody watches any independent or objective news, they would have seen a very, very apolitical prosecutor explaining in great detail all of the evidence that he gathered to show that Donald Trump knew that the election was free and fair, and yet, in any event, tried to overturn it.

What you see there is, from the Republicans, is a total subterfuge, trying to distract from the reality. He got toll records of the Republicans in Congress and the Senate because he had evidence that Rudy Giuliani and others involved in the conspiracy were speaking with them. And as any good prosecutor would do, you need to get documentary confirmation that those calls occurred.

It's routine, and it was not targeting them, nor did it include any of the substance of those calls. And that's what they focused on far and away the most. The other thing they, of course, focused on, Anderson, is the political nature of this prosecution.

And if you see Jack Smith, if you watched his demeanor, if you look at his 30-year history as an apolitical prosecutor, if you understand his testimony, that he never spoke to Joe Biden or anyone in the White House about this, was never given any instructions, there is no question and no doubt that politics and partisanship had nothing to do with his investigation. So if you're looking at this objectively, you come away saying Donald Trump is actually the one who's deranged, and he is wrong, and that this was not political, and that he knew the 2020 election was not fraudulent, but was fair, and he lied about it anyway to try to overturn the election.

COOPER: I want to just switch gears a little bit, because I want to ask you about what's going on with ICE, particularly the removal of this five-year-old boy and his father in Minnesota. According to his attorney, they were in the middle of a legal asylum process, they'd gone to a -- the correct checkpoint, they'd done it on the app, they had their appointment, they had -- they were in the process.

Back in December, you confronted, in a really kind of stunning back and forth with the Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, about this exact situation. And I just want to play some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOLDMAN: Immigrants with ongoing asylum applications are legally in this country.

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: There are individuals in this country that have applications that --

GOLDMAN: And they are legally here, because it's a lawful pathway, right?

NOEM: It's a lawful pathway.

[20:50:01]

GOLDMAN: OK. So if your department then deports anyone with an ongoing asylum application, you are violating the law, correct?

NOEM: Joe Biden left us with --

GOLDMAN: I'm not asking about Joe Biden, I'm asking you a specific question.

NOEM: -- 25 million cases --

GOLDMAN: If your department deports anyone with an ongoing asylum application, you are violating the law, is that correct?

NOEM: It was greatly violated when they allowed --

GOLDMAN: I'm asking you, I'm asking you.

NOEM: -- people to come and they granted asylum application --

GOLDMAN: Why are you filibustering? Why can't you answer the question? It's a simple question. If your department deports anyone with an ongoing asylum application, you are violating the law. Isn't that correct?

NOEM: The asylum program was broken --

GOLDMAN: OK.

NOEM: -- under the last --

GOLDMAN: Mr. Chairman, I will reclaim my time, she's not answering the question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I mean, you cornered her, obviously, she can't answer that question. I mean, it's exactly the situation, it seems, according to the attorney for this person, that this family is in right now.

GOLDMAN: This is happening all over the country, Anderson, and the notion that a five-year-old boy would be taken alone for 24 hours by these masked armed ICE agents is horrific, and it is horrifying. And the way that ICE is treating unaccompanied children, the way they're treating American citizens, the way that they are forcing people to show their papers as if we're in Nazi Germany is unconscionable.

But, yes, Kristi Noem admitted in that hearing that anybody who has an open asylum case who is deported, is -- they are doing that --

COOPER: Yes.

GOLDMAN: -- in violation of the law. And that's happening all over the place, and for that reason and many others, Kristi Noem needs to go today.

COOPER: Congressman Dan Goldman, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

More than half the country is on alert for what could become the worst winter storm in years tonight. More than 230 million people are facing the threat of damaging ice or heavy snow, all starting tomorrow.

Meteorologist Chris Warren joins us now. So what's the latest on the track of the storm?

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, compared to earlier in the week, Anderson, the track is a little bit farther to the north, and what that does, it pretty much locks in the northeast for heavy snow. One of the heaviest snowstorms we've seen in years.

Meanwhile, to the south, that's where the worst of the weather is going to be in terms of the ice. With power outages that could last for several days, with this kind of cold dropping down from the Arctic, it's going to feel like at times tomorrow morning into Saturday, 40 to even 50 degrees below zero.

Here's how it plays out. Pink is ice accumulating on power lines, on trees and branches, on sidewalks, on streets. And then the snow, the heavy snow stretching about 1,500 miles from Oklahoma to New England that could have a foot of snow on the ground. That's the possibility we're looking at. Again, very cold temperatures behind it. And, Anderson, what we're seeing is a big swath of snow, but it's to the south where the ice, again, imagine being without power with temperatures sub-zero. That's what we're facing.

COOPER: Yes.

WARREN: Also, and of course, high impacts for travel on the roads and through the air.

COOPER: All right. Chris Warren, thanks very much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:20]

COOPER: New episode of my podcast, All There Is, just dropped wherever you get your podcasts that's available. My guest, novelist Yiyun Li, who lost both her kids to suicide, her son Vincent at 16 and James at 19.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Was it important for you ever to try to completely understand Vincent's thought process or James's thought process? I spent a lot of time trying to understand what was my brother thinking? What -- why did he do this? What -- was this a choice? Was this a compulsion? And there are times I still go down that rabbit hole.

YIYUN LI, NOVELIST: Right. There are questions that cannot be answered. And also, how can we not ask those questions? I ask those questions all the time, too. But I think I accept not being able to find the answers.

COOPER: You don't like the word grief.

LI: I don't use the word grief the way people use it. I think grief is becoming a shortcut for many things. For instances, people talk about their grief as a process, as though there's an end of that process. It's a state that we're going to be in forever and ever. And I choose to be here.

COOPER: You choose to be.

LI: Yes. Because the alternative is you forget your children. You forget your lost people. And I don't want to forget. I think remembering is more important than processing.

COOPER: You don't use the word grief. You talk about the abyss.

LI: Yes. I use abyss as the precise word to describe how I feel about my life is I'm in an abyss. And we will always be in this abyss because we'll always be parents who have lost two children. And nothing in life is going to change that.

So I don't want to say I want to get out of this abyss. What I want to do is to live in this abyss a little better. So it doesn't feel abysmal. And each person lives in his or her own abyss. And I never want to go out. I don't think it's possible to get out.

COOPER: Though it's painful.

LI: It is painful. One wants to hold on to these memories however painful they are. I think that pain or that abyss is you coexist rather than getting rid of. And I think what we do is how to live with that pain a little bit more wisely or better or cheerfully.

I don't think we will ever feel that we can heal the wound, but you go on living, acknowledging this is the pain and this is the wound that won't heal, acknowledging this is the pain and this is the wound that won't heal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: You can listen to the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts or watch the entire episode right now at CNN.com/AllThereIs. That's our grief community page, CNN.com/AllThereIs.

That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow.

The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.