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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Sidelines Border Patrol Chief Sending Border Czar To MN; Trump: Both Governor Walz And I Want To Make It Better; DHS Analyzing Body Cam Footage In Alex Pretti Shooting; Family, Friends Push Back Against "Sickening Lies" About Alex Pretti; Senate Democrats Threaten Partial Govt. Shutdown Over DHS And ICE Funding After Minnesota Shooting; Trump Faces Growing GOP Backlash After 2nd Deadly MN Shooting; Minneapolis Community Comes Together In Song. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 26, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a live picture from Beijing, where we've gone to bars and tone.
Here in Taipei, some people think the shocking news makes a Chinese attack on Taiwan less likely in the near term. But there's a worrying prospect of a new generation of younger, more aggressive generals taking over the military leadership, which could actually help Xi improve the PLA's combat readiness, Erin.
You know, President Trump is planning to visit Beijing in April for these high-stakes negotiations with Xi, the topic of Taiwan is expected to come up.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes, all right, Will Ripley, thank you very much. Thanks to all of you. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:36]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from Minneapolis. The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. George Orwell wrote that in his book, "1984." The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
It's being circulated on social media a lot these days. Orwell wrote that in the late 1940s, after getting sick of what he called the screaming and lies told in wars by governments and media, pushing official propaganda. There's a lot of people here in Minneapolis tonight who are sick of the lies being told by some in the Trump administration about Alex Pretti, who was shot to death here on Saturday and we have breaking news in his killing.
Alex Pretti was a 37-year-old ICU nurse at a local V.A. Hospital, shot dead and repeatedly shot, at least 10 shots fired by Border officers Saturday morning. And like Renee Good just 19 days ago, he was smeared by the administration in the hours after his killing. Defamed as a domestic terrorist bent on massacring law enforcement within hours of his death. Tonight, though, unlike in her case, the administration appears to be
backing away from at least some of the falsehoods that it's been spreading. Though we should point out the officials who actually defamed him have not backed off yet. The President is changing personnel, sending in Border Czar Tom Homan to oversee ICE operations here. That announcement came 20 minutes after a Fox News morning show host suggested he should do it. Coincidence? Perhaps.
The President spoke by phone today with Minnesota's Governor Tim Walz, saying that he and the governor, "seem to be on a similar wavelength".
He also spoke as well with Jacob Frey, the Mayor of Minneapolis. Also, three sources are now telling CNN that the face of the crackdown here, Border Patrol Official Gregory Bovino and some of his masked agents are expected to leave Minneapolis tomorrow. And Mr. Bovino, we just learned, has been cut off from accessing his social media accounts by the Department of Homeland Security.
Now, it's very possible that The White House, including the President, would like all of that to be the focus tonight, not the falsehoods that his head of Homeland Security has repeatedly spread about Alex Pretti and his killing, a story line parroted by Gregory Bovino and top White House official Stephen Miller. A story line which began collapsing almost immediately under the weight of multiple videos that citizens took and all we've learned about Mr. Pretti since.
So, that is where we begin tonight, keeping them honest. Starting with how one camera saw it in real time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF RECENT SHOOTING IN MINNEAPOLIS.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: This happened just a few blocks from us here, just after 9:00 A.M., local time Saturday. Within four hours, officials were in front of the cameras, spreading the official line reading, it seems from the same script.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGORY BOVINO, U.S. BORDER PATROL SECTOR CHIEF OF THE EL CENTRO SECTOR IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: An individual approached U.S. Border Patrol agent with a nine-millimeter semiautomatic handgun. The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but he violently resisted --
KRISTI NOEM, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: An individual approached U.S. Border Patrol Officers with a nine- millimeter semiautomatic handgun. The officers attempted to disarm this individual, but he reacted violently --
BOVINO: -- fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers --
NOEM: An agent fired defensive shots. Medics were on the scene immediately --
BOVINO: -- delivered medical aid to the subject, but the subject was pronounced dead at the scene.
NOEM: This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage --
BOVINO: -- where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.
NOEM: This individual went and impeded their law enforcement operations, attacked those officers, had a weapon on him, and multiple dozens of rounds of ammunition wishing to inflict harm on these officers coming, brandishing like that and impeding their work that they were doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:03]
COOPER: Deputy of Chief-of-Staff Stephen Miller went further, calling Mr. Pretti a would-be assassin.
Now, keeping them honest, it sounds terrifying: An armed man, a would- be assassin brandishing a weapon, coming at officers wanting to massacre them, bent on doing maximum damage. He's then shot in self- defense and immediately given medical attention.
Now, none of that is true. We know that. Here's what the video from several different angles actually shows.
We first see Alex Pretti observing the action, apparently recording it, and from time to time directing traffic through the scene. He was not brandishing the handgun that he was lawfully carrying in the holster in the small of his back, and he did not approach officers. Those agents approached Pretti. He had a cell phone in his right hand and nothing in his left. Federal authorities now have the phone and whatever video that he might have carried.
However, they have not said what he managed to film, nor have they revealed what was on the body cameras that some of the border officers were wearing. And again, Pretti did not approach the officers. The video shows him moving to assist a woman who officers had shoved and knocked down. Officers pepper sprayed the both of them. They took him to the pavement, too. One agent, found his weapon on his waist.
As we mentioned, it was in a holster. And again, to be clear, he was a lawful gun owner with a carry permit. Additionally, and this is crucial, as you see in the slowed down video, a federal officer took it from him before the shooting and before knocking him to the ground and piling on him and pummeling him in the head with a metal canister. None of the Border Patrol agents seemed aware he even had a gun. And then, in the space of about five seconds, two agents fired ten shots, killing him.
At one point, for some reason, you see one of the officers clapping several times. Weve circled that in the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF RECENT SHOOTING IN MINNEAPOLIS.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Gregory Bovino and Secretary Noem also said medical aid was immediately delivered. That was a lie. At least one witness says it was not and that the officers instead were counting bullet wounds or expressing confusion about who had Pretti's gun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is the (bleep) gun? Where is the gun?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got the gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All in all, virtually nothing that the administration said in the immediate hours after this killing matched up with what the video showed. And when it was revealed that Alex Pretti was carrying his weapon lawfully, administration officials were highly critical of anyone carrying a weapon in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, U.S. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: You cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest -- .
BOVINO: He brought a semiautomatic weapon to a riot.
NOEM: I don't know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammunition, rather than a sign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, keeping them honest, that is not what we are accustomed to hearing from any of those three. In the case of the FBI Director, Kash Patel, he even went so far as to raise money for Kyle Rittenhouse, who brought a rifle to a protest in Wisconsin and then shot and killed two people and was later acquitted in their deaths. Here's what he said Sunday and back then, in 2021.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATEL: You cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple. You don't have that right to break the law and incite violence.
We're raising money. If you have a case, we will review it for free and we will cut the check to the lawyer to file your defamation case and get your day in court.
And if Kyle Rittenhouse's team is listening or your audience is tweeting, this is what fight with Kash is for. We will help Kyle Rittenhouse is defamation cases. We will pay for them by raising money so he can clear his name like I'm clearing mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, it's certainly a change of tune from him now, the FBI Director, not to mention a President who once was all smiles alongside Kyle Rittenhouse, whom he called a, "nice young man".
This time the President went online saying, "This is the gunman's gun." Talking about Alex Pretti's weapon "... loaded with two additional magazines and ready to go. What's that about?" he wrote.
Again, this is from a President who, until this weekend, hardly stopped talking about his love for the Second Amendment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm going to save your Second Amendment.
The Second Amendment is under siege, believe me.
We'll ensure Americans have the means to protect themselves in this age of terror. I will be always defending the Second Amendment.
We are going to be so strong with our Second Amendment. We're not letting our Second Amendment go.
If the left gains power, they will demolish the suburbs, confiscate your guns, and appoint justices who will wipe away your Second Amendment and other constitutional freedoms.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President has also made it clear he's always going to protect the constitutional right, the Second Amendment, constitutional right of Americans to own guns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:10:25]
COOPER: And now he supports the Second Amendment, just not all the time, depending on who's carrying the gun and who gets killed.
Alex Pretti was apparently not his kind of gun owner. He was, however, someone who served his country by caring for its wounded and badly ill veterans by comforting them in their final hours and honoring their passing.
[20:10:44]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALEX PRETTI, ICU NURSE: Today we remember that freedom is not free. We
have to work at it, nurture it, protect it, and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have served so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom.
So, in this moment we remember and give thanks for their dedication and selfless service to our nation in the cause of our freedom. In this solemn hour, we render our honor and our gratitude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison. I appreciate you being with us here in the freezing cold.
KEITH ELLISON, MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Nice to be here, thank you.
COOPER: First of all, just the latest developments of, it seems the reassignment of Mr. Bovino and the bringing in of Tom Homan. What do you make of that?
ELLISON: Well, it sounds like they need to change tempo in their eyes. But I can tell you that Minnesotans have had quite enough of Mr. Bovino. Glad to see him go, and the fact is that this city is outraged, is upset, is -- 50,000 plus marched in this freezing cold weather, nine below just a few days ago, the day before Mr. Pretti was shot down and killed, we marched 50,000 strong in the cold. So, people are really, really upset.
And I think Bovino leaving can only be a good development and we'll hope for the best. But were going to continue to press the claim of our state no matter who's there.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, a federal judge said today there would be no decision today in your lawsuit.
ELLISON: Right.
COOPER: How disappointing was that for you?
ELLISON: Not very, I didn't expect that.
COOPER: She said the law is unclear and I think you guys acknowledged that in court.
ELLISON: Well, one thing -- well, so the circumstances are unclear. This is the most -- this is the largest escalation and deployment of immigration agents in the history of the country. I'll give you an example, I was talking to a colleague of mine today who's an A.G. on a border state in the South. She tells me that they're down 35 below as they're trying to stand up to the Sinaloa Cartel. They're losing ICE agents, but, well, I can tell you where they are. They're here and they're in such tremendous numbers.
COOPER: They need ICE agents fighting the Sinaloa Cartel in another state and they are here.
ELLISON: Right, and that's remarkable, isn't it?
And so, the bottom line is that we, I'm not disappointed about the ruling. Judge Menendez is a very careful, excellent jurist. We are hoping for a quick answer. But I'll tell you, we are under very unique circumstances, Anderson.
So, I'm not surprised that the judge is going to take her time. Some have said our lawsuit is novel. I don't think it's novel. It's based on very old principles of law, but it's meeting a circumstance that is very novel and very new.
COOPER: You also went to court to try to make sure that the evidence, whatever evidence that the federal government has, which I don't think they've even informed you about, that they preserve it. How concerned are you that they that they won't?
ELLISON: I'm very concerned. Well, first of all, they locked us out of the Renee Good matter, and denied us access to that file. And then there was another shooting in North Minneapolis of a Venezuelan man who survived.
And so, when this third incident occurred, we weren't trusting them. We moved Saturday night, and we were able to get a TRO, a Temporary Restraining Order very quickly. And so, we were in court on that again today so that all parties could be heard because the TRO is generally an ex parte matter.
So, I don't trust them at all and I hope the court rules in our favor to protect this evidence.
COOPER: There have been some in the Department of Justice who have been critical of Minnesota officials and Minneapolis Police for losing control of the crime scene to protesters who came. I've heard from police officials who said, you know, the federal government had control of the crime scene, refused to allow state investigators who should be investigating this in this state and then just left.
ELLISON: Well, I'm offended that they would try to smear local law enforcement. That way. I can tell you, you know, Brian O'Hara is our chief. He does a fine job. Sheriff Witt is our sheriff, she does a fine job, and they know how to process a crime scene. They were excluded from that crime scene.
Now, if the federal authorities want to make it up and do the right thing, they should do it. But to try to lie on local law enforcement just adds insult to injury in a state that's already been quite injured by the federal government.
[20:15:04]
COOPER: Do you have any confidence? I mean, the camera that Alex Pretti was holding, right. That must be crucial evidence.
ELLISON: Absolutely.
COOPER: I assume it's in the hands of Border Patrol or the Department of Homeland Security. Do you have any confidence they would actually release that video?
ELLISON: I believe that a judge ordering them to turn it over and share it will preserve the evidence. Left on their own devices, I have zero trust that they would do the right thing.
I mean, look, you know, you've got the Vice-President, you got Bovino, you have Kristi Noem all just accusing the, the, the victim from the very beginning. And in fact, Bovino, I believe, said that the people who shot Pretti were the victims.
COOPER: Yes.
ELLISON: And so, you know, there's --
COOPER: And also, that they shot, that he said later to Dana Bash words, the effect of they shot him in time before he could shoot them.
ELLISON: Which is ironic since they disarmed him and they knew they did that. So, that is nothing other than a mendacious fabrication of the truth. It's a lie, you know, if you want to get right to the heart of it.
And so, there's no way I can trust anything that they say or do, including preserve evidence. Why would they preserve evidence of a crime that they potentially committed, you know, in a case where they're denying that there was any crime committed by these officers at all?
And so, I just don't believe it. And so, that's why we moved, and that's why I hope the court continues to rule in our favor.
COOPER: Attorney General Ellison, I appreciate your time tonight.
ELLISON: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Thank you very much, appreciate it.
ELLISON: Stay warm, man.
COOPER: Coming up next, what a former Minneapolis Police Chief and our own FBI and Justice Department veterans make of all this as our live coverage from Minneapolis continues.
And later, a different kind of protest here, where voices are raised with an emphasis on harmony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PROTESTERS SINGING "HOLD ON".)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:05]
COOPER: More now from here in Minneapolis.
Earlier, you heard some of the Trump administration's falsehoods about the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis on Saturday. I want you to hear them again alongside the video, which shows the facts of the matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOEM (voice over): An individual approached U.S. Border Patrol Officers with a nine-millimeter semi-automatic handgun. The officers attempted to disarm this individual, but the armed suspect reacted violently.
Fearing for his life and for the lives of his fellow officers around him, an agent fired defensive shots. Medics were on the scene immediately and attempted to deliver medical aid to the subject, but he was pronounced dead at the scene.
The suspect also had two magazines with ammunition in them that held dozens of rounds. He also had no I.D. This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage on individuals and to kill law enforcement.
WITNESS: (SCREAMING) What the (bleep) did you just do? What the (bleep) did you just do? What the (bleep)!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is former Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo, CNN chief, Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, and CNN legal analyst and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Elliot Williams.
Chief, do you think it's going to make a big difference Tom Homan coming here and Gregory Bovino being reassigned?
MEDARIA ARRADONDO, FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: Yes. So, Anderson. So, one, I think for the people here on the ground in Minneapolis, certainly, Governor Walz, Mayor Frey, Chief O'Hara, it's a difference.
There was communication today. Obviously, President Trump had this conversation with Governor Walz. They had not had that conversation before. But I will say this, though, folks on the ground, local law enforcement, and certainly the community here, they're expecting something different. They want to see something different.
Commander Bovino is no longer here. But as Border Czar Homan comes to town. They're anticipating that something is going to be different from the start of Operation Metro Surge.
COOPER: John Miller, I want to talk about the shooting itself, the moment when Alex Pretti's gun appears to be removed by one of these agents. Law enforcement believes they have disarmed a suspect, or at least the guy who took it. What should have happened then?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, there's two most critical moments, and that's one of them. The first, most critical moment is when they discover the gun while they're wrestling with him. That, of course, is going to raise the adrenaline.
But the second most critical moment, perhaps more critical, is when they remove that gun from the scene, so that agent finds it in the holster, pulls it out, and then walks out of the scrum with it. Does he call it out? While they're yelling "Gun, gun, gun" and he removes it. Does he say, I've recovered the gun, I've got the gun. I'm stepping away with the gun so that they know that threat is removed.
Or does he just step out with it without saying something? Assuming they saw that, and are they still operating with the idea that they're struggling with a person who's armed with a semiautomatic weapon? We don't know the answer to that. But if he had called it out, it would be hard to imagine why they drew their weapons and then fired.
COOPER: Elliot, I mean, again, this video we're seeing right here, Mr. Pretti was on his knees, his hands, it looked like, out over his head or on the ground in front of him, visible that he had guys on him and you see the officer removing his gun and then firing at point blank range and then moving away.
And then two officers fire five shots from a distance with him already on the ground, laying there. Does that make any sense to you?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Look, I've seen the same videos you have and it's a little bit perplexing what the Secretary's explanation is for what she's seeing in the videos.
Now, let's look at the two types of investigations that would flow from this. There could potentially be an internal Department of Homeland Security investigation as to whether their use of force policy was followed, and then maybe a criminal proceeding investigation by Minneapolis.
I spent some time with DHS' use of force policy today, just going through it again. And yes, it's just hard to square what we saw here with even the kinds of training that these DHS officers would have gotten. So, I would hope and think that there's an investigation happening internally right now.
And then beyond that, if Minneapolis were to investigate the actions here, the central question would be was the action objectively reasonable for what we as a society or the city of Minneapolis would expect from a similar officer in the same circumstance?
And again, it's just, based on what we're seeing and based on what's publicly available, it's just hard to square what's in that video with one what seems to match with common sense and also what we understand of the law.
[20:25:57]
COOPER: Chief, I mean, from a law enforcement standpoint, when you see the scrum on top of him, the course of events that followed, what stands out to you? ARRADONDO: Well, one and John Miller, my friend, said it pretty good
too. It seemed disorganized and there should have been more communication. It just really seemed disorganized.
But I also want to, Anderson, go back to what Elliot said, too. You know, both Renee Good and both Alex Pretti. They're U.S. citizens. They have constitutional rights. Those are insured to them. And that's why it is so important when you have these tragic officer-involved shootings, that you make sure that a criminal investigation to ensure that their rights were not violated.
And so, it is my hope that, again, that the BCA will come in Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and do that, along with the investigation that the feds plan to do as well.
COOPER: And, John, I mean, DHS officials confirmed several officers involved in this were wearing body cameras. What's the question or questions you would like answered when that footage is reviewed? And certainly, when Alex Pretti's footage is reviewed?
MILLER: Well, I mean, when you look at that footage, you're going to want to look at it and see what can you learn close up inside that scrum that you couldn't see from the outside, especially when and how they discover that gun when its removed? But, Anderson, I think this is going to be one of these cases where the audio is going to be more important, which is what commands are being given.
Who in that scrum seems to be in charge or leading the tactics? When they remove that gun, do they call it out and say, I've got the gun? The gun is the gun is out? The audio is going to be just as important as the video.
COOPER: All right, John Miller, thank you, Elliot Williams, Medaria Arradondo our chief, appreciate it as well.
Coming up next, one of Alex Pretti's former medical colleagues joins us to talk about his fallen friend.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK STUMBRAS, FORMER CLASSMATE OF ALEX PRETTI: You certainly knew that he was a fun and he was a loving guy. The idea that you could describe this man as a terrorist makes me mad beyond words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's a former classmate of Alex Pretti. Tonight, friends and family are pushing back against what they say are sickening lies about the 37-year-old VA hospital ICU nurse who was shot multiple times, killed by federal officers Saturday morning. Pretti grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin, where a former teacher says he was a good student who loved to help people. In 2011, he graduated from the University of Minnesota and worked as a research scientist before becoming a registered nurse.
One of his former patients says he was the best of the best. We played this a moment ago, but it's worth another look. This is Alex Pretti in 2024 paying tribute to a veteran who had just died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX PRETTI, VA HOSPITAL ICU NURSE: Today, we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it, protect it, and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have served so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom.
So in this moment, we remember and give thanks for their dedication and selfless service to our nation and the cause of our freedom. In this solemn hour, we render them our honor and our gratitude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now is one of his former colleagues and friend, Dr. Dimitri Drekonja. I'm so sorry for your loss, and I appreciate you being with us.
DR. DIMITRI DREKONJA, CHIEF OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VA HOSPITAL: Yes.
COOPER: What was he like?
DREKONJA: He was a great guy. And I think the best way I've found to describe him is that he's someone that, within the first 30 seconds or 60 seconds of talking to him, there would be a smile on his face and there would be a joke out of his mouth. He was just a happy guy and a helpful guy.
He was always looking to see, what can I do? He was just -- yes, that was a happy, helpful guy.
COOPER: Did -- when you heard what was being said about him, I can't imagine hearing that immediately after a friend has been killed.
DREKONJA: I mean, to be honest, friends of ours, when we first heard the news, we sort of anticipated this would happen. And we -- the group of us who knew him said, we need to get out the word of the type of person he is because we kind of assumed that they were going to make him to be a monster, and we wanted to get out there and say, no, he is a great guy. He was someone who lived to help, he worked so hard, and he was such a good nurse, and we wanted that message out there.
COOPER: It's -- I mean, being an ICU nurse is an incredibly difficult job.
DREKONJA: It's extremely hard. I mean, it is striking that he went there right out of nursing school, and I would say that's bold. I mean, you could almost say that's a little too bold. I mean, it is where the sickest patients are. In most ICUs, 20 to 30 percent of people will not leave.
I mean, so you are going to have some of your patients die. You're going to have family members who are going to be distraught. You're going to have to, you know, both have technical skills. You're going to have to have outstanding personal skills. And to do that right out of the bat of nursing school, that's outstanding.
COOPER: He was able to step into other people's pain in that situation.
[20:35:03]
DREKONJA: I think so. To be honest, I didn't work with him in the day- to-day, moment-to-moment.
COOPER: Right.
DREKONJA: But he gave great assessments. He told me what I needed to know, and he was just great.
COOPER: How do you hope he's remembered?
DREKONJA: I really think, I mean, the images that people are seeing, the images that you had on your newscast here, that is him. And if you just look at them, that looks like a guy you would want to approach if you were a new guy to the neighborhood, and you were like, who should I talk to? You would talk to him.
You would be thrilled if he was your neighbor. You would be thrilled if he was your co-worker. And I was thrilled he was my co-worker.
COOPER: Wow. I appreciate you coming in and then -- and filling out the picture of him. It's -- I think it's so important to see him as he actually was, not these mysteries and lies that have been told. So thank you so much.
DREKONJA: No, he was great. Thanks for letting me have the chance.
COOPER: Yes. I really appreciate it.
I'm going to speak with Minnesota Senator Tina Smith coming up. We'll have more from Minneapolis. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:09]
COOPER: More on our breaking news tonight. In response to the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti by federal officers, several key Democratic lawmakers plan to risk a partial government shutdown next week by blocking a spending bill that includes funding for the Department of Homeland Security and ICE.
Joining me now right now is Minnesota Democratic Senator Tina Smith, who is part of the effort. She's also condemned the administration for their lack of transparency with Minnesota officials amid this investigation. You've accused the administration of a cover up. You're not getting --- I mean, is there any cooperation from the federal government or any information sharing at this point?
SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): I mean, when you have the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension having to get a warrant to get access to evidence in the killing of Alex Pretti, I think that gives you an indication of the complete lack of cooperation. And this is very unusual because typically, particularly if there's some sort of an officer-involved shooting, you have the state and the feds working closely together to gather the evidence and understand what's happening.
That's not been happening here. And it's one of the reasons why people in Minnesota and I think around the country are just saying this looks like a cover up. This -- how could you have any credibility when you have the department investigating itself?
COOPER: I heard people from the Department of Justice criticizing local law enforcement, local officials for losing control of the scene to protesters when it was the federal -- I mean, my understanding is Border Patrol had whatever control they had. They haven't shown much control, but whatever control they had, they were the ones in charge of the scene. They did not allow the state investigators onto the scene. And then they withdrew.
SMITH: That's exactly what I heard from the Minneapolis Police Chief, who said that the Border Patrol folks that had the scene were, you know, the Minneapolis Police showed up and they told those officers to leave. And Chief O'Hara said, you know, no, don't leave. This is our job. Our job is to track down crime and to get the evidence. And so I'm very proud that they, you know, stood their ground.
COOPER: Have you been shocked by the level of violence, the level of -- I mean, not only -- just the tactics, the kind of chaotic nature of these scrums of masked agents wrestling people to the ground, ripping people out of vehicles? Have you -- I mean, had you any experience of seeing this before?
SMITH: I've never seen anything like this. In fact, it was so interesting. A couple of days ago, a leader at the city of Minneapolis, who is in charge of their emergency response, told how she had worked in, you know, in Ukraine and in Iran and places all around the world.
And she said, I've seen these tactics in these countries, but I never thought that I would see them here. These agents are behaving as if they believe they're untouchable.
COOPER: Do you think -- is that part of the point? I mean, I've talked to a number --
SMITH: Yes.
COOPER: -- of people who believe --
SMITH: Yes.
COOPER: -- the violence is part of the point.
SMITH: Oh, I think so. The -- clearly, the point is not improving public safety, because everything they're doing is damaging public safety. I think the point is to instill fear and to intimidate and to harass people. And what I -- as awful as that is, what I love is how Minnesota has responded by showing up with whistles and granola bars and singing songs and saying, we won't be intimidated.
We are going to be here to watch out for our neighbors. And that, I think, is what we need right now in this country. People who are not afraid to stand up to this bully.
COOPER: I -- one thing I think -- before I came here, I didn't understand or I didn't sense from just seeing this on television, is just the sense of community. I mean, from the moment I've got here, the word community has been in almost every conversation I've had with any random person I speak to.
SMITH: It's so true. This morning -- this afternoon, I went to the scene of where Alex was killed --
COOPER: Yes.
SMITH: -- and then I went to visit some of the mutual aid locations. In fact, one place we had to hold, because there was a raid happening right there, and this was in Little Earth, which is a very large indigenous community in Minneapolis. And the sense of community and people just, like, running to trouble, figuring out how they can help, is every place in this community.
Not just Minneapolis, but it's in small towns all over the state where we're seeing the same kinds of ICE tactics. They just haven't been getting as much attention.
COOPER: Yes. Senator, I really appreciate your time.
SMITH: Thank you.
COOPER: Thank you very much. Senator Tina Smith.
Joining us now is CNN Senior Political Commentator and former Trump Campaign Adviser David Urban, also CNN Chief Political Analyst and former Senior Adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod.
Axe (ph), when you look at the -- what has happened here, two fatal shootings in less than a month, officials jumping to conclusions and, frankly, making up things in the case of Alex Pretti before an investigation is complete. Have you seen something like this before?
[20:45:05]
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, Anderson, there have been times in our history when an image so shocked the conscience of the nation that it changed the course of events. We saw that in the civil rights movement, on Bloody Sunday in Selma. We saw it when the National Guard killed four students at Kent State during a Vietnam War protest.
I think we saw that again on Saturday, and I think it was the -- what happened to Ms. Good. I've got child's photo on Friday -- or Thursday or Friday, and then this horrific event on Saturday. And, you know, when they approached him, they weren't frightened about a gun. They were frightened about a camera. They were frightened that what they were doing would be recorded.
And what would we know now if there weren't other people there with cameras to record this event and tell us that, you know, the official event, account of events, was completely wrong? But I think this has created a huge political problem for the president that will hopefully change behavior.
It already has begun, and you can see last night he was processing this saying, I don't want to own this. I don't know about this. I don't know about that shooting. Today, he's removing Bovino, who I can tell you from Chicago, is repeating the behavior that we saw there.
And maybe this will change the way they approach this issue of immigration. He's -- it's very poorly received in polling, and I think this has just turbocharged people's sense of shock and dismay. So I think this is --
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: -- a big moment.
COOPER: David Urban, I want to get to you in a second. If you guys could just take David, the two Davids full, because I want the senator to be able to leave, and she's waiting out in the cold so she can cross over. So in the control room, if you guys could just take me off the screen, let her go while we talk to David Urban.
Senator, I appreciate it. Thanks very much. We're just going to go on for a few minutes. I don't want to make you cold.
So David Urban, there have been some Republicans --
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure.
COOPER: -- breaking from the administration over Pretti's death, calling for an investigation, condemning some of the tactics in this operation. Do you think -- what do you make of what you have seen? How do you see it?
URBAN: Yes, Anderson, look, from what I've seen and, you know, I obviously didn't get to see what happened before the tape, I've seen the tapes like you've seen, Alex Pretti should not be dead today. But what I've also seen, and I've said this on this show many times, I don't believe in sanctuary states and sanctuary cities.
I don't believe that we should selectively get to choose which laws we like and don't like and enforce and don't enforce. I think today, as Axe said, it's a good step forward that President Trump and Governor Walz and Mayor Frey spoke on the phone, and they may be cooperating with ICE now and turning over people in their custody.
I think you wouldn't have had this major presence. I think that if cities and states would just cooperate with ICE, things would go a lot further and a lot more quickly. You wouldn't have this kind of -- this tension we have in America.
And, you know, Axe is correct to look back in history, but one doesn't have to look that far back. You can look back to Ruby Ridge and Waco. I was in Washington for both of those events. We had lots of oversight by the Congress in both of those instances, and, you know, people have to go Google a lot of them, but Ruby Ridge is when the FBI hostage rescue team shot Randy Weaver up in the mountains in Idaho.
And Waco, you remember, the FBI under Janet Reno, you know, burned down a Branch Davidian compound, killing 54 Americans. And so there was a lot of accountability and a lot of oversight in those cases. And I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful that we'll get that here.
Listen, the goal of deportation of illegal immigrants is what people in America voted for when they voted for Donald Trump. The methodology you're seeing today, I'm not quite sure that's what they voted for. So I think -- I'm hoping that this administration's learned that. I'm hoping that governors and mayors in these sanctuary-season states will cooperate, and we can get to a much better place in America.
AXELROD: Anderson --
COOPER: David Axelrod, I mean, you were at the convention where people were holding up signs saying mass deportations. What do you think those people expected that to look like?
AXELROD: Well, look, I think it's -- the administration made clear what they thought it should look like when they said, we're going to deport the worst of the worst. That's what they said. And then --
URBAN: Yes.
AXELROD: -- they have basically had a huge kind of scoop-up, everybody on the street, and let's see what we can find -- a policy. And most of the people they're deporting are not criminal aliens, as they would describe them. They're just people who are here having crossed the border illegally.
[20:50:00]
Some of them have been here for decades. Some of them are children, as we've seen. It is not what they advertised, and I don't think it's what the American people wanted or expected, and certainly not American citizens being shot on the street.
So -- and I think this is why you see this change of attitude by the president and others, and we'll see if they follow through on it. I hope they do. I'll just say this at the end. I know we got to run. President Obama deported 3 million people or close to 3 million people, and he had a greater emphasis on people who had committed crimes in this country. He was -- he had opponents on the left who didn't like the fact that he was deporting people, but we didn't have these scenes on the streets because it does not take these kinds of invasions into cities to do the job.
And I think local governments would cooperate --
URBAN: Wait, yes, yes, but --
AXELROD: -- if the goal was to get people -- if the goal is to get criminals off the streets and out of the country, I think local communities would cooperate.
COOPER: David Axelrod, let me ask you --
AXELROD: That would be true in my state in Chicago and other cities.
COOPER: Were most those -- go ahead, David Urban.
URBAN: Yes. I was going to say, Axe, you know full well, listen, the Obama administration was a completely different situation. Most of the criminal -- most of the aliens that were deported were deported immediately once they crossed the border. They were -- or shortly thereafter. They were not able to burrow into the, you know, inner cities in America and get lost.
Listen, unfortunately, well, the Obama administration deported people, the Bush administration deported people, the Clinton administration deported people, the Biden administration people, they didn't deport anybody. They opened the doors widely and let people flood in.
And so, unfortunately, unlike Axe's boss --
AXELROD: David --
URBAN: -- we couldn't -- Trump couldn't do it that way. He didn't have the luxury (ph).
AXELROD: Here's the problem --
COOPER: Guys, we're --
AXELROD: -- with that argument.
COOPER: We're out of time.
AXELROD: The people you are deporting are mostly not criminal aliens. So -- and they've been here for decades, some of them. So they have burrowed into our communities, and they are pillars of our communities as well. They're doing productive work.
That's not what people wanted. They wanted to get the bad guys out. They didn't want -- COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: -- citizens being shot and --
COOPER: David Axelrod, David Urban --
AXELROD: -- people who aren't criminals being deported.
COOPER: Guys, I appreciate it.
URBAN: I agree with you, Axe. No shootings, get the battle --
COOPER: Up next, in this horrible moments -- we got to end it there, guys. I'm sorry, we're moving along.
Up next, in these horrible moments, the people making a beautiful noise in hopes of a better day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:39]
COOPER: Well, there is fear and sadness here and certainly outrage and anger, but we've been particularly struck by the sense of community here as well. One particular kind of protest has been growing here each week. It was started by a group of singers. They call themselves Singing Resistance, and they are using their voices to speak together through song.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SINGING)
COOPER (voice-over): The singing first started four days after the killing of Renee Good.
(SINGING)
COOPER (voice-over): Some 300 people gathered in a neighborhood to encourage those hiding in homes nearby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's turn and sing it to the neighborhood.
COOPER (voice-over): They marched in frigid temperatures, many learning the songs for the first time.
(SINGING)
COOPER (voice-over): Six days later, some 600 people showed up.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will rise.
COOPER (voice-over): Double the numbers, double the courage. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I will live for liberation because I know why I was made. We've been singing that one in English and in Spanish.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's by a group called the Peace Poets.
COOPER (voice-over): This is one of the organizers of Singing Resistance. She didn't want to be identified out of concern for her safety.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Song is a vehicle for us to grieve. It's a vehicle for us to feel rage. It's a vehicle for us to strengthen ourselves. Like we -- that song, I am not afraid that I sing. We're not singing it because we're actually not afraid. Like we are afraid. It is terrifying what is happening. And it's a way to gather our courage.
COOPER (voice-over): Courage, it seems, is contagious. Last Saturday, hours after Alex Pretti was shot to death by Border Patrol agents, some 1,400 people came to the Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church to sing.
(SINGING)
COOPER (voice-over): Elizabeth Macaulay is the pastor.
ELIZABETH MACAULAY, PASTOR: It's been a time when it's been pretty tempting to feel so disempowered. And where is the voice of sanity and hope in the midst of community. And we all did it together. And the leaders of the Singing Resistance movement were beautiful. And they brought out the hope and the grief and the rage and the beauty.
COOPER: Do you think song makes a difference?
MACAULAY: I know song makes a difference.
COOPER: Song to (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to think that more and more people are waking up. They want us to go about our lives while our neighbors are stolen from their families. And what I've seen is that after Renee Good's murder, after Alex Pretti's murder, more people are out in the streets the next day.
The everyday acts of deep love and courage that I see my neighbors, my community members taking, that's the world that we want and we're practicing it every day here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You know, the power of protest and song.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
