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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Says No Pullback in MN: "We Want to Keep our Country Safe"; Homan: ICE and CBP Working on Minneapolis "Drawdown Plan"; Witness Who Recorded Officers Shooting Alex Pretti Speaks Out; Videos Show Alex Pretti & Agents Clash 11 Days Before His Death; Sen. Collins: ICE Ending Its Maine Surge, But No DHS Confirmation; Taking Note And Giving Hope. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 29, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
EMMA HEMING WILLIS, BRUCE WILLIS' WIFE: ... like when you're a caregiver, you know, your love shifts, it expands and is different but very meaningful and I feel very, very blessed.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN HOST AND CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Elex Michaelson, CNN, Beverly Hills, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Just incredible to hear and to think about what she's saying there. You don't want to miss Elex's show "The Story Is" weeknights at midnight Eastern, 9:00 P.M. Pacific Time.
And thank you so much for joining us, AC 360 begins now.
[20:00:33]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, just moments ago, the President breaks a day of silence on the subject and says there will be no pullback at immigration agency here in Minnesota. Just hours after his border czar signaled the opposite.
Also tonight, another witness comes forward, my conversation with the woman who made this video about Alex Pretti's killing through the windshield of her car, what she remembers at the moment why she says we all need to be courageous.
And later, Border agents on the ground in Maine and the intimidation that some say they are facing from them.
Good evening, we are live coming to you from Minneapolis again tonight, we begin with the comments this evening from the President, which seemed to indicate no pullback on the federal presence here. Those comments came just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Will you be pulling back immigration enforcement agents out of Minnesota? DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will keep our country safe. We'll do whatever we can to keep our country safe.
REPORTER: So, you're not pulling back?
TRUMP: No, no, not at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: No pullback, not at all, he said. That caps a day that began with the President's border czar, a new top a new top official on the ground here, signaling the opposite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: Matter of fact, I have staff from CBP and from ICE working on a drawdown plan. When the violence decreases, we can draw down those resources. But based on the discussions I've had with the governor and the A.G., we can start drawing down those resources. As far as those looking for public safety being released and do it in the jail with much less people. So, the drawdown is going to happen based on these agreements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, he did not promise a drawdown, only to work toward a plan for one. All the same, his boss, the President just a few words on the red carpet seems to have put the kibosh on any drawdown and it came after he spent the day silent on it all, leaving the spotlight entirely to Tom Homan. Here he is at his televised cabinet meeting shortly after Homan spoke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He took no questions, he normally takes dozens, which drew attention along with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're not going to go through the whole table, because the last time we had a press conference, it lasted for three hours and some people said he closed his eyes. Look, it got pretty boring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: No parade of Cabinet members today singing his praises and no mention at all of this or his other appearance today of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, despite what seemed to be a thinly veiled reference from Border Czar Homan to her and the man he replaced, Gregory Bovino.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HOMAN: I didn't come to Minnesota for photo ops or headlines. You haven't seen me. I came here to seek solutions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As you know, Bovino, along with everything else he did here, rarely shied away from any chance to parade before the cameras in his specially made uniforms and dressed for the occasion. The same and more can be said for Secretary Noem, who has appeared in many outfits so far this year as well, and many photo opportunities. Certainly, she's dressed as a cowboy in tactical gear, as a firefighter.
Today, though, for all intents and purposes, Secretary Noem was invisible. A lot to talk about tonight. More concretely, and far more important to people here in Minneapolis, the federal presence is still plain to see. The 3,000 or so agents who came here have, by and large, not left and now will not leave, according to the President, just moments ago, as we talked about.
So, let's talk about what's coming up. We're going to start with CNN's Kaitlan Collins tonight on the disconnect between the President and his border czar.
Kaitlan, is it clear to you why the President didn't take questions at all today, but then just made that comment about immigration enforcement at the premiere of the First Lady's movie?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": What is clear, Anderson, is it's extremely rare for the President to have opportunities like he did today. I've never seen him at a Cabinet meeting, especially where he did not take questions from reporters after.
Typically, you go in there knowing it's going to be a three-hour affair because not only is he going around the room like he typically does to each and every Cabinet official, he also normally takes questions anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes at times.
Today, he obviously skipped over several Cabinet officials, including the DHS Secretary, Kristi Noem, which stood out because, yes, he skipped over others as well. But he gave a shout out to Marco Rubio or to Pam Bondi, who was seated across from him.
He did not do the same for Kristi Noem, who typically talks about one of his favorite subjects, which is immigration. And then subsequently, we also went into the Oval Office this afternoon, the President did not take questions there either. Something that is also quite a rare occurrence for the President to not take a single question in that moment.
[20:05:26]
So, it did stand out to us today. I can't remember two instances where he's had cameras in front of him and declined to take questions before. And then as he was walking the red carpet tonight with the First Lady, Melania Trump, and being asked about this new documentary of hers based on her that is premiering tonight, he did field some questions from reporters about the fed chair and about Tom Homan and I thought what he said there about the criminals and going after them, and that they are not scaling back operations, stood out because they have basically been trying to signal the opposite, Anderson, as you know, and heard from Tom Homan today.
And so, that is the question of whether it was a tone shift, whether it was actually a tactical shift that was going to happen. But the President not commenting today earlier at length at all on these matters and not even bringing up Minneapolis as it has dominated the headlines during his cabinet meeting, was remarkable in and of itself -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source".
Joining me now is acting director during the Obama administration, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, John Sandweg, and also CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, our very own John Miller. Appreciate both of you being with us.
John, what do you make, first of all, the President's comments this evening and what Homan's presence here certainly seems to indicate.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think what the President is saying -- I'm sorry, which John.
COOPER: Sorry, John Miller, sorry about that.
MILLER: Okay, I think what the President is saying is that they're going to continue their operations within the framework that Tom Homan talked about, which is targeted against people with serious or violent criminal records. I also think there's a bit of face saving here, because they've taken a couple of steps back. And one of the things which I think we'll talk about in a minute is there's a lot of people that they have detainers on in jail that the state and the prisons and jails are willing to turn over if they can just get that coordinated right.
COOPER: So, John Sandweg, why is that hard to coordinate?
JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: You know, Anderson, it's not that hard to coordinate. I think there's a lot of confusion out there about what constitutes cooperation and cooperation with state and locals can manifest itself in many forms.
What Tom was focused on today in his press conference was access to the jails, right. This idea that ICE officers are not able to get into the Hennepin County Jail there. But we know that there's broader cooperation. The State Department of Corrections shares will give hand prisoners over after they complete their sentences to ICE. We know from the chief of police that there's a lot of cooperation with ICE in terms of, you know, gang task forces or serious criminal efforts, that is pretty traditional. And I'll tell you, Anderson, by experience, that even though you have some of these sanctuary jails where they say, technically we can't give you access to the jail. In my experience, when you have more serious criminal offenders, oftentimes the sheriff will get on the phone and call the local ICE office. And lo and behold, the ICE agents are waiting there outside the jail the moment that the individuals released.
But for the moment, it seems that it's about the jail. But I'll just say one other thing, Anderson. I do think for some of the administration, when they express frustration with cooperation, I think what they want to see is some of the things you're seeing, let's say, the Sheriff's Office down in Texas, where you have Sheriff's Deputies actually engaged in immigration enforcement, stopping people making inquiries about their immigration status, and in some cases, being deputized as ICE agents. I don't think we'll ever see that kind of cooperation in Minneapolis, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see something in terms of that jail access.
COOPER: Yes, John Miller, I mean, that we had, you know, the Town Hall last night with the mayor point blank said that that sort of level of cooperation was not going to happen.
I want to play John, something else that Tom Homan said today and get your reaction. Those videos were showing were, I guess, some handovers of people who've been incarcerated. Let's take a take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOMAN: I met with a lot of people, a lot of the agents. They've been in theater. Some of these people have been in theater for eight months. So, there's going to be rotations of personnel, hopefully less now that we have some agreements made, we can make it more efficient and safer.
But they've been in theater a long time so, you know, there's rotations happen all the time to get people out of here and go home, get some rest and see their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What do you expect, John Miller to see different? I mean, you know, the talk is of more targeted operations. What would that actually look like? Because if that is something that's possible to do, why wasn't that being done by Bovino and his people?
[20:10:06]
MILLER: So, that's a really interesting question. And the answer is because from The White House, from Mr. Miller's office in The White House, the word has been, you know, you need to achieve these numbers, 3,000 a day.
And if you're going after violent felons, that means locating them. They might be in hiding, conducting surveillance, obtaining warrants. But if you have to get 3,000 a day, that's when you're going to be hitting those Home Depot parking lots, and 7-Eleven parking lots and stopping people on the street who look brown or have an accent, because you've got to make that number and that eats into the targeting of violent felonies.
When you look at their total numbers, 97 percent of the people -- well, seven percent of the people they're arresting have violent felony convictions. The vast majority don't have anything like that. They either have minor charges or nonviolent crimes or crimes that are long ago, but that's not what they're getting.
The big dispute here, The White House is saying that the Minnesota is not cooperating. Homeland Security has been saying they're not releasing these prisoners is what the state came out with this weekend, which was startling. DHS says there's 3,061 prisoners that they have detainers on, that the state isn't turning over, and the state says the actual number is 301.
So, they disagree by about a thousand and what the state told us is that they notify ICE when they are an unlawful migrant in on charges, they notify ICE when they're being released after their sentence so that they can exchange them. And you know, that footage we were showing before of these exchanges going on in these garages, this is really interesting because there were two prisoners. One was Joshua Furno, the other was Meng Kong Yang and the prison officials in the state called ICE and said, they're being released, come get them. They honor the detainer, they turn them over right here in the Sally Port, gave them to the agents on January 12th.
The next day, on January 13th, Homeland Security out of Washington issued a press release listing all of the of the violent felons they had captured, and they strongly implied that they had captured these two criminals who had been released from state custody, theoretically into the streets, and then captured by the ICE agents, which is exactly what didn't happen. They were handed over by the state prison system, the same one that the feds are claiming won't cooperate with them.
So, Homan's presence there, meeting with these people, getting these systems in line should hopefully broker an agreement where they're actually getting coordinated and doing what they came to do.
COOPER: John Miller, John Sandweg, I appreciate your being on, thank you.
Coming up next, my exclusive conversation with a woman who saw and recorded the killing of Alex Pretti. What she thinks about all she saw that day, all she seen since federal agents came here, and why she's calling for courage from everyone here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLA SCHULTZ, WHO RECORDED THE SHOOTING OF ALEX PRETTI IN MINNEAPOLIS FROM HER CAR: They want us to be afraid and they want us to be intimidated.
COOPER: They feed off it.
SCHULTZ: Yes, absolutely.
COOPER: In your personal experience, that's what you have seen?
SCHULTZ: Yes, I think that is one of their goals.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:55]
COOPER: Gregory Bovino, the former top border official here, broke his silence today, appearing in front of Mount Rushmore. He defended the tactics of his agents here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGORY BOVINO, U.S. BORDER PATROL SECTOR CHIEF OF THE EL CENTRO SECTOR IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: I'm very proud of what you the mean green machine are doing in Minneapolis right now, just like you've done it across the United States over these past tough nine months. And I want you to know that you're the modern-day equivalent, turn and burn makes me very proud. I also want you to know that I've got your back now and always.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's a sentiment not widely shared here, including by the woman you're about to hear from. Her name is Kayla Schultz. She is a longtime area resident, and she is speaking out for the first time about her experience with federal agents here. Most dramatically, the one she filmed through the window of her car that ended in the killing of Alex Pretti.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SHOWING A VIDEO OF KAYLA SCHULTZ'S RECORDED VIDEO OF THE SHOOTING.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kayla Schultz is speaking for the first time on camera since the killing she witnessed. I talked to her earlier. First, we want to warn you some of the conversation has graphic language and images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: What made you decide to start documenting what's happening?
SCHULTZ: Well, it's because that's all we can really do at this point. What has happened in my city is absolutely devastating to me. I have witnessed and I've seen videos of my neighbors being kidnapped and I know that all we can really do at this point is make some noise, make our voices heard, and film them so that they don't go missing without a trace, so that we can at least record their names and try to get contact information for their family or friends so that they know what has happened to them. COOPER: Saturday morning, how did you come to be there?
SCHULTZ: I received a notification. I was already out and about and I went there with my whistle and my phone so that I could do what little I can in order to try to protect my neighbors.
[20:20:14]
COOPER: Your video is really important because it's not only a different angle on things we have seen, but you also capture things that that we haven't seen in other videos. What did you see before the video?
SCHULTZ: Before the video even starts, several federal agents crossed the street to come over to my window to tell me that I was obstructing, and they would pull me out of my car and arrest me for that. I told them, I wasn't obstructing anything. We exchanged some not so nice words back and forth.
The last thing that that federal agent who came up to my window said, and he screamed it at the top of his lungs, right in my face. Was that "I'm a (bleep) cop."
COOPER: Have you ever had a law enforcement officer say anything like that?
SCHULTZ: No, absolutely not. No one has ever actually called me that word at all.
COOPER: Were you scared?
SCHULTZ: I was scared, but I absolutely refused to show them that I'm scared, I think. And we saw this in the video that they feed off of that. They want us to be afraid, and they want us to be intimidated.
COOPER: They feed off it?
SCHULTZ: Yes.
COOPER: That's in your personal experience, that's what you have seen?
SCHULTZ: Yes, I think that is one of their goals. They escalate in every single way if they are not able to use that fear in order to intimidate us into backing down.
COOPER: So, if you're not intimidated, they escalate?
SCHULTZ: And that's exactly what happened to Alex. He did not let them intimidate him. In fact, he stood up for two women that they were absolutely brutalizing and that made them mad that they were not able to intimidate him into tucking his tail and leaving.
COOPER: Your video shows the two women who are talking with some officers in a vehicle. They are right next to you.
Those two women are also visible in Stella Carlson's video shot from the sidewalk, not far from where Kayla Schultz's car is located.
On your video, there's a man in a in a gray tan hat, an officer who pushes one of the women.
SCHULTZ: I don't know exactly whose words were who's at that point, but he, in my opinion, is the one that instigated this.
COOPER: How so?
SCHULTZ: He just seemed angry. He seemed like he wanted vengeance for I don't know what. He wanted to be the big scary guy. And he just had absolutely no control over his emotions. I saw him shoving them very violently. It was not out of self-protection, in my opinion. It was purely out of rage.
COOPER: You believe that pushing was kind of the genesis of everything else that then followed?
SCHULTZ: Yes, exactly. He was being so incredibly violent.
COOPER: You briefly capture, Stella Carlson, the lady in the pink jacket. You can actually see her documenting this from another angle. And when you compare the videos, it really gives a much more rounded view of what is going on.
On your video we see the Border Patrol agent who will end up shooting Alex Pretti. We see him spraying a chemical agent on a woman or attempting to spray a small bottle of pepper spray or something into a woman's face, and he seems to have some issue with his bottle and he checks it.
He sort of turns away and checks it for a moment. Your video actually captures the gun. Did you know that?
I hadn't realized when I first started looking at it. Its very grainy.
SCHULTZ: One moment, there were people being pushed around. There were people being maced right in front of me. That was upsetting enough. All of a sudden, I see so many federal agents way more than was necessary in order to take him down to the ground. The next thing I know, its gunshots. It's so many gunshots; I couldn't believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy shit!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, oh!
SCHULTZ: I didn't immediately register that they were gunshots, in fact. My brain, I think, didn't want to believe it. I was hoping, praying that it was anything else but guns. I ended up looking away from my camera at that point and making out that they were holding real guns, and they had just shot him.
COOPER: After the shots, what do you remember?
SCHULTZ: After the shots, I saw pretty much all of them back away immediately. I was just absolutely in shock. I really have barely a recollection of the moments immediately after other than just the feeling of absolute horror and also rage that it escalated like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You (bleep) murderer.
SCHULTZ: So, they backed up and I was sure he was dead. And then a couple of them did approach his body.
[20:25:36]
COOPER: Could you see over the hood of your car, Alex is on the ground?
SCHULTZ: No, and I'm glad for that. I saw the scuffle. I saw him being taken to the ground and I saw the guns as they were firing. But at least I didn't have to watch him die.
COOPER: You continued to roll your camera stayed on. You hear the officer who took the gun. He comes back and at a certain point says, I've got the gun, you can hear that on your recording.
OFFICER: I've got the gun.
COOPER: Why did you want to talk? Come forward?
SCHULTZ: I think it's important. I went back and forth for a while about this. I expect there to be some sort of fallout from this at some point. I expect that there will be probably ramifications to my employment, to my career, and to my safety.
I expect that some people are going to try to label me as a domestic terrorist for trying to stand up for my community and what little ways that I can with my voice and with my phone recording, but it's important. This needs to be out there, and I need people to know what is going on here. I am scared of speaking out and having this public, having my face out there and my name, but if I can muster up one percent of the courage that Alex had shown there in order to maybe make some amount of change, I will.
They want us again to be afraid of them. They want us to be scared, intimidated, into silence, and we cannot.
I can lose my safety. I can lose security. They can take everything away from me, but they can lose my security. They can take everything away from me but they can't my voice.
COOPER: You're scared, but you're still standing up.
SCHULTZ: Yes, I think it's so important. Now is not the time to stay silent in this, for anyone at all. It's imperative, things are going to get a lot worse, I think, not only in my city, but around this country as this project expands and we all need to be courageous. We all need to be a little bit brave.
And again, do what we can in order to stand up for our rights. I would ask that anyone who might feel compelled about any of this go to stand with Minnesota.com and donate what they can in order to help us out.
COOPER: Has anyone from the federal government reached out to get your witness statement?
SCHULTZ: No, not at all. I did, as soon as I could, after this happened that same day, I went to the BCA office and --
COOPER: The state investigators.
SCHULTZ: Yes, exactly and I gave them a statement. I provided them the video that I have, but I have not been reached out to by federal investigators.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, up next, we're going to hear from another person here in Minneapolis. A man who recorded video of a clash between Alex Pretti and federal officers 11 days before Mr. Pretti was fatally shot and he spoke to Mr. Pretti on camera as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay, you okay?
ALEX PRETTI, INTENSIVE CARE NURSE FOR THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, SHOOTING VICTIM: I'm okay, I'm okay.
Are we all okay? Are we all safe? Are we okay?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also, some in Maine say ICE agents are trying to intimidate them by showing up at their homes. We have a report on that coming up as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:17]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we now know that Alex Pretti had a physical encounter with federal officers on January 13th, 11 days before he was shot and killed. We don't know what led to the clash, but Pretti's family confirms he is the man in the video, which shows that Pretti shows him spitting on the officer's vehicle.
And as it begins to move away, he can be seen kicking the back right taillight twice, ultimately breaking it. The vehicle stops. Officers then get out and go after him.
My next guest, Max Shapiro, arrived right around the same time and shot another video. He managed to speak also to Pretti once the officers left to see if he was OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAX SHAPIRO, WITNESS TO ALEX PRETTI INCIDENT WITH ICE ON JAN. 13: Are you OK? Are you OK?
ALEX PRETTI, ICU NURSE, VETERANS HOSPITAL: I'm OK. SHAPIRO: Are you OK?
PRETTI: I'm OK. I'm OK. Are we all OK? Are we all safe? Are we OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not me. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you good?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:11]
COOPER: Well, I spoke with Max Shapiro earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So what brought you to that corner?
SHAPIRO: Absolutely. As many people are, you know, doing these days, signal chats are a very popular way to communicate, and my son's school is in the area, and we have a group parent chat. They alerted that we were -- that ICE was in the area, and I had that very paternal instinct of, if they're in the area, that I should probably be there with my four-year-old son.
COOPER: I mean, obviously, you now know who Alex Pretti is. I assume at that time, you did not know who he was.
SHAPIRO: No.
COOPER: When did you first -- when did he first get your attention?
SHAPIRO: I'd -- he just seemed like another observer at that moment.
COOPER: Did you notice him kicking out the rear light?
SHAPIRO: I did see that, but I did not get that on my video, but that is part of other videos that have circulated from that day.
COOPER: What did you think of it at the time?
SHAPIRO: That was probably something that I would not have done. Is that worth the aggression that was forwarded to him? Probably not.
COOPER: On your video, he's grabbed by some agents, and then you see him running away from them or being released by them, and you went up to -- you approached him.
SHAPIRO: I did.
COOPER: Can you describe that?
SHAPIRO: As the agents left and the coast was clear, I walked up to make sure he was OK. And in one hand, you can see I'm still filming. In the other hand, I have my hand around him, giving him a half hug, just asking, are you OK? And immediately thereafter, very quickly, he's like, I'm OK. Are you OK? Is everyone OK? Are we safe?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAPIRO: You OK? You OK?
PRETTI: I'm OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHAPIRO: And in that moment, I just thought that was an incredible display of compassion and care for others. I understand that there could be folks that use this video and classify him as an agitator or, you know, somebody that was looking for trouble. My experience with him in the 30 seconds that I interacted with this person was the complete opposite of that.
COOPER: Did you notice that he had the gun on him?
SHAPIRO: No, I did not. And I actually did not realize that until it was published in the Star Tribune last night, the article that I had interviewed for. I watched back the video, and I could see from other videos that it did appear that he was carrying his weapon. But from my perspective, I never caught that.
I looked back at mine, and I did see one clip of him. You could see it, tucked in his belt. But --
COOPER: Yes. It seems like the officers didn't even -- didn't notice it either. I mean --
SHAPIRO: Yes.
COOPER: -- they certainly didn't remark on it.
SHAPIRO: Yes.
COOPER: When you realized, oh, that's the guy -- I mean, after Mr. Pretti --
SHAPIRO: Yes.
COOPER: -- was killed on Saturday, how quickly did you realize that was him?
SHAPIRO: I got the news after scrolling through, you know, CNN and other media channels that that happened. It wasn't until about the early afternoon that I realized it was him. And that was a result of seeing still frames and putting two and two together at that point. So it was, you know, you have the grief of, oh, this happened again. And then the realization that I have a personal touch point with this, which makes it that much more real.
COOPER: It's a strange feeling, it must be.
SHAPIRO: It's heavy. It's very heavy.
COOPER: As a parent here, what's that like?
SHAPIRO: I worry for my family, but, yes, Minnesota has shown that it is very resilient.
COOPER: Well, thank you very much for talking to us. I appreciate it.
SHAPIRO: Yes, thank you. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, up next, the Maine citizens who say that ICE's operation to round up unlawful immigrants is also targeting them with harassment and intimidation. What the Department of Homeland Security is saying about that.
And later, how this Minneapolis community is protesting through song and lifting each other up.
(SINGING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:24]
COOPER: There are protesters speaking out against ICE's operation in Maine. The state's Republican Senator Susan Collins said today that the operation is winding down after she reached out to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. No confirmation, though, from DHS. ICE has said that 1,400 unlawful immigrants are the target of their effort in that state. But some local citizens who are monitoring ICE say that the agents are also targeting them at home.
More now from CNN's Jason Carroll.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN CAVALLARO, MAINE RESIDENT: We're trying to bear witness to what law enforcement is doing.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Erin Cavallaro keeps her focus on ICE agents on a morning drive through some of what she calls Portland's vulnerable areas, places immigrant communities call home.
[20:45:08]
CAVALLARO: I think any concern I have pales in comparison to the fears that my neighbors have.
CARROLL (voice-over): Cavallaro says she won't be intimidated by ICE during the Department of Homeland Security's Catch of the Day operation here in Maine, which it says has been focused on arresting the worst of the worst. But Cavallaro says some agents are also targeting so-called watchful observers.
CAVALLARO: There was an ICE vehicle in the parking lot of a local coffee shop, and it had pulled out. And so I decided to follow safely behind it to see what neighborhood it would be going to next in an effort to let others know so we could all bear witness to what their activities were.
And within a couple of minutes, I realized that the ICE officer was leading me to my home. And I had called my neighbor as I was pulling into the neighborhood, asking her to come out and document it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I ran downstairs and saw the vehicle waiting for her in front of her house and Erin driving in and just started taking pictures to document it.
CARROLL (voice-over): She took pictures, and her Ring camera also captured video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
CARROLL (voice-over): The ICE agent never left his car. He honked and sped away. They say the message was clear.
CAVALLARO: I think clearly it was an attempt to let me know that we know who you are. We know where you live. Stop.
CARROLL (voice-over): Joe Salisbury says agents also came to his home after he followed them in his car last week.
JOE SALISBURY, MAINE RESIDENT: He took me right to my house. He pumped his brake in front of my house, and I started recording.
They're going to stop in front of my house this time. You think that scares me?
I have law enforcement background, and so I'm not easily intimidated, you know? And watching them, they're like the Keystone Cops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not illegal to record.
CARROLL (voice-over): Take a listen to what happened after a woman started recording ICE agents at a Portland apartment complex.
COLLEEN, MAIN RESIDENT: Why are you taking my information down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we have a nice little database.
COLLEEN: Oh, good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now you're considered a domestic terrorist, so --
COLLEEN: For videotaping you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all be here.
COLLEEN: Are you crazy?
CARROLL (voice-over): She told us despite the threat, she has no regrets.
COLLEEN: I would say I wasn't nervous or scared, but more furious about what's -- what was happening.
CARROLL (voice-over): In a statement to CNN, the Department of Homeland Security says, "There is no database of domestic terrorists run by DHS. We do, of course, monitor and investigate and refer all threats, assaults and obstruction of our officers to the appropriate law enforcement."
Senator Susan Collins announced Thursday ICE has ended its enhanced activities in the state of Maine. DHS has not publicly announced an end to the operation and did not respond to our questions about it or about allegations of intimidation, only to say, "DHS will continue to enforce the law across the country, as we do every day."
REP. CHELLIE PINGREE (D), MAINE: It's utter (INAUDIBLE) honestly.
CARROLL (voice-over): A blunt assessment from Democratic Congresswoman Chellie Pingree.
PINGREE: We can't confirm anything with ICE. Information we used to be able to get is almost impossible now.
CARROLL (voice-over): With so much uncertainty, Erin Cavallaro says she'll continue to keep a watchful eye.
CAVALLARO: A mom in a station wagon is going to bother a federal law enforcement official so much that they feel the need to intimidate them. I just have a hard time understanding why, unless they're doing something that they don't want others to see.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (on-camera): And Anderson, I also want to note, the reason why so many people who we spoke to out here are so camera ready to record these ICE agents is because they say they're not just going after the worst of the worst. They say they're going after all sorts of people in the Portland community. And they say, Anderson, once again, they will not be intimidated.
Anderson?
COOPER: All right. Jason Carroll, thanks very much.
Up next, how some protesters are coming together in grief and lifting each other up in song.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARINA PARTRIDGE, SINGER: Hold on, my dear ones. Here comes the dawn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:53:39]
COOPER: Hey, just after this broadcast, at 9:15 p.m. Eastern Time tonight, I'm doing a special edition of All There Is Live, my streaming show about grief from here in Minneapolis. I hope you join me on -- at CNN.com/AllThereIs for that. So many people here have brought up the sense of loss they feel and the grief that they are experiencing.
One of my guests on All There Is Live tonight is a singer named Sarina Partridge. She's been protesting with a group called Singing Resistance and another singing group called Bridge Singers. She's raising her voice and doing what she can.
Here's some of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
COOPER (voice-over): Sarina Partridge didn't expect many people to come out and march with Singing Resistance several weeks ago.
(SINGING)
COOPER (voice-over): But despite the freezing cold, some 200 people showed up.
PARTRIDGE: There was something about walking and singing and seeing kids like part the blinds and look out and wave or families come out on the porch just a little bit and peek out and wave or they're taking videos that was like, oh, yes, our neighborhoods are full of terrified people.
[20:55:06]
And this is a moment of us reminding them that they're not alone. And singing can help us be together in courage, in our fear, in our grief.
COOPER (voice-over): In normal times, Sarina Partridge leads community choirs. But these are not normal times in Minneapolis.
PARTRIDGE: I don't know a single person who isn't working so hard, holding different pieces of the unraveling fabric and knitting it back together. A lot of what I'm up to right now is helping bring collective song to this time.
I think in a group of people singing, it's so apparent that every individual voice matters, but you're also a part of something way bigger. And then in these moments where we're like, what do you say? There's no words. How do we talk about what's happening? Sometimes we just have to sing together.
And singing can help us be together in courage, in our fear, in our grief. I sing with a little group of volunteer singers. We call ourselves the Bridge Singers. And we decided that we wanted to offer kind of a singing vigil to the sites where Renee Good and Alex Pretti were murdered. That's like, this is our home, and we want it to heal.
Our grief needs our attention. It's a really important part of our human experience. And the more we try to quiet it down and not look at it, I think the more insistent and engrossing it can become. And it can be so scary to really turn to it.
And in a moment like this in our city, it's so overwhelming. And I've got to deliver those groceries to my neighbor that I said I would. And I've got to get to that school patrol. And I've got to get to that ICE raid and blow my whistle because someone's life is depending on it.
So I have to keep functioning. But it can be easy to forget that our grief is also urgent. And if we ignore it and pushing it down, it's like our grief and our love are like the same entity. And we can dim them both down together. And is that what you want? In this movement moment, it feels so crucial that we stay open to our love.
Because that's the why you're doing all the grocery runs and the ICE patrol. Because you love your neighbors. You believe we're meant to be good to each other. And if you are not making space for the grief and heartbreak, I think you're also dimming down the love.
So it feels really urgent to find ways to let our grief move in a held container. So we're not going to be completely, you know, undone by it. But we're also not going to pretend it's not there. Because the heartbreak is really important. And my community deserves my love, which kind of means that my community deserves my grief, too.
COOPER: Could you sing something?
PARTRIDGE: Always. This is a song that's written by a friend of mine, Heidi Wilson. And it goes like this.
(SINGING)
COOPER: Are you afraid?
PARTRIDGE: I am afraid. And that's the thing. I think that songs can be like spells that we cast on ourselves and each other. Where it's like, it's a way to step into something that we can imagine feeling. And then while we're singing it, it's real. It's a taste of what's possible.
And it becomes a little bit more real. But I am afraid. How could I not be? I think you'd have to be not paying attention to not be afraid. And in those times, I think it's even more important to find ways to be in our courage together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Sarina Partridge, she's actually on Spotify. Listen, she has a song called "Grief" that's great. It's on Spotify. You can hear more from Sarina Partridge and others here in Minneapolis. Experiencing all shades of grief and loss in 15 minutes to my new streaming show, All There Is Live, 9:15 p.m. Eastern. It's at CNN.com/AllThereIs. I hope you join me in 15 minutes. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
