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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
New Plea from Guthrie Family: "We Have to Know that You Have our Mom"; FBI: Guthrie Ransom Note Does Not Establish How to Contact Sender; FBI: Guthrie Ransom Note Does Not Establish How To Contact Sender; Famous Kidnapping Over The Years; FBI Looking Into Ransom Note Demanding Millions In Bitcoin For Nancy Guthrie's Return; Trump Promises Schumer Funding For NY Tunnel Project If Penn Station And Dulles Airport Are Renamed After Him; Love & Loss With Poet Megan Falley. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 05, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... kidnaped in 1973, held for $17 million. Again, his kidnapers were eventually caught. But again, the common thread here money. But as I mentioned there before, another common thread with all of the cases that I mentioned, eventually all of the suspects and all of those cases were eventually caught.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Right, right, even if someone pays, they don't stop --
CARROLL: They all paid and they were all caught.
BURNETT: Thank you very much Jason Carroll. And thanks so much to all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:33]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, breaking news, Nancy Guthrie's son has a new plea for her captors to reach out with proof that his mom is alive.
Also tonight, the passage of the first of two ransom deadlines. TMZ's Harvey Levin, who got one of the alleged ransom notes, joins us to explain why the second deadline is, in his words, far more consequential.
And later, will Penn Station soon be named Trump, and the same for Dulles Airport? The President names his price for freeing up billions that Congress has already approved for badly needed infrastructure and the price is his name.
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with breaking news in the abduction of Nancy Guthrie. Just before air time, her daughter, the "Today Show's" Savannah Guthrie, posted this plea from brother Cameron on social media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CAMERON GUTHRIE, BROTHER OF SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: I'm speaking for the
Guthrie family. Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need you to reach out and we need a way to communicate with you so that we can move forward.
But first, we have to know that you have our have our mom. We want to talk to you, and we are waiting for contact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, this new plea comes as the first of two deadlines has now passed, and Miss Guthrie's disappearance. The deadlines were cited in an alleged ransom note linked to her abduction and sent to a local Tucson station and to TMZ. Now, one deadline was for 5:00 P.M. today. We do not know for which time zone, but it's now 6:00 P.M. local time in Arizona. The other deadline is for Monday, and we should be clear. No one has said definitively that this note is for real.
However, the FBI's special agent in charge says authorities are taking the note seriously and said there's been no follow up. And as you heard from Cameron Guthrie a moment ago, they want to hear from the kidnapers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been no proof of life, and there were no other demands within that letter. So, they're still waiting for communication.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Investigators today also released a new timeline breaking down what happened Saturday night in the early hours of Sunday morning, when Nancy Guthrie vanished. At 5:32, they say she took an Uber to a family home. A family member brought her back at 9:48. Two minutes later, at 9:50, her garage door closed. At 1:47 A.M., things turned ominous. Her doorbell camera was disconnected, and then this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY SHERIFF: At 2:12 A.M., software detects a person on a camera, but there's no video available. They had no subscription and therefore it would rewrite itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Her pacemaker last sent a signal to her phone at around 2:28 A.M., and the local sheriff says DNA testing of blood found on her porch indicates it is hers. The FBI today also announced a $50,000.00 reward for information leading to Miss Guthrie's recovery, or her kidnapers' arrest, and the agent in charge had this to say to whomever might be holding her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an 84-year-old grandma that needs vital
medication for her well-being. You still have the time to do the right thing before this becomes a worse, much worse scenario for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: His appeal and Cameron's new video message follows the one posted last night by his sister Savannah, who had this to say to her mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, CO-ANCHOR OF THE NBC NEWS MORNING SHOW "TODAY": Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again. We speak to you every moment and we pray without ceasing. And we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again. We love you, mom.
ANNIE GUTHRIE, SISTER OF SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: Love you mom.
C. GUTHRIE: We love you, mom. Stay strong.
A. GUTHRIE: We love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now is TMZ's Harvey Levin. Harvey, thanks for being with us and again, we don't know if this note is legitimate. Obviously, the FBI is taking it seriously enough to discuss it at today's press conference.
Of the two deadlines, and you saw this note, of the two deadlines in the e-mail, you said earlier that the Monday deadline is the more I think you said consequential of the two. I know you're choosing your words carefully, as you should, and we want you to. Can you just share anything else about that?
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ EXECUTIVE PROCEDURE: Yes. So, the deadline that just passed has to do with the demand. The Monday deadline has more to do with consequences and, Anderson, that's -- you know, it's about as much as I can say. I mean, I don't think, you know, I think everybody kind of knows the way this plays out, when people write ransom notes. But when you read this, whoever wrote it, you know, if its real, is serious.
[20:05:23]
COOPER: The 5:00 P.M. deadline. Do you know if that was Tucson time?
LEVIN: I have reason to believe its Tucson time, yes.
COOPER: Okay, you said that your I.T. folks at TMZ, who I imagine are very good, looked into the address that the note was sent from and what did they say about it?
LEVIN: Well, it's really complicated, and it's kind of above my skill level. But I will tell you that I had my I.T. guys talk to the FBI. I was on the phone with them, and we couldn't crack it. And honestly, the way my I.T. team explained it, I don't think that authorities have cracked it either. In fact, the letter even says the police will be no help to you. I will tell you that, I don't think they've cracked it. And frankly, I think that's one of the reasons they were so open today at this news conference that a lot of what was in this letter that we said we would not disclose, they disclosed today.
So, I think they had a change of heart and the clock is clearly ticking. And I think that's one of the reasons they were more forthcoming. I will say this. I've been reading this letter over and over. And I now feel more strongly than ever based on something that's in this letter. I believe there is a radius around Tucson of where this person may be.
And if this person really does have Nancy Guthrie, where she is, I think there is a radius around Tucson that they kind of disclose in this demand letter. And I think there are several reasons I believe this is something in the Tucson area because they not only sent it to us, they sent it to a local station in Tucson. And that's a little bit odd if the person was completely disconnected from Tucson, but specifically something in this letter makes me -- well, it doesn't make me believe. I mean, they as much as say that she is within a certain radius, if you believe this to be true.
COOPER: Did the letter say anything about any further communication?
LEVIN: It specifically says there will be no further communication. They say no negotiation and no communication. And obviously Savannah Guthrie and authorities have been asking for proof of life. There's no indication of this. I will tell you that the first words are in the letter are that Nancy is safe, but scared. They also say she is aware of the demands made in this ransom letter.
COOPER: The FBI said that certain facts in the e-mail pertaining to Mrs. Guthrie's and her home got their attention. One about an Apple Watch and one about a floodlight. Youve you've confirmed you saw those facts in the note. You also said something about the placement of the Apple Watch that is significant.
LEVIN: I think it is. So, you know, it's not hard to know. She had an Apple Watch and she's been photographed with Savannah, and you see the Apple Watch on her wrist. But yes, the placement of it is, I believe, significant. If this person is accurate. This is, I think, what got the FBI's immediate attention. And when I called the Sheriff, as soon as we got the letter, I mentioned the two items and the placement of the watch. And a couple hours later, I got a call from the FBI.
So, you know, to authenticate something, they have to show that they know something that everybody else wouldn't. And as far as we can tell, there has been no report out on the placement of that watch where it was found. And so, it would be something that would be held close to the vest.
COOPER: I don't know if you've received other things like this over the years. It wouldn't surprise me, maybe if you had. Did anything else stand out to you in reading this?
LEVIN: I mean, it's a carefully crafted letter. This is a letter that really spells out precisely what they want done, what the consequences are if they don't get what they want. They layer it. So, things changed today at 5:00 Tucson time. They talk about her health, that she's okay. They make it clear that its non-negotiable. They talk about, the fact that they're not going to have any more communication. So, it is a carefully crafted letter and this is not something that somebody threw together in five minutes.
[20:10:34]
COOPER: You believe this is a rational actor, at least a coherent thought out, not -- I mean, I'm sure you get letters from people who are not that rational.
LEVIN: I know exactly what you're talking about. And yes, we do, this is a rational actor. When you read this letter, this is a rational actor. Whoever wrote it, I'm not saying again, I don't know that this actually is the person who has Nancy Guthrie. But the way this letter is crafted, it is a rational actor. And by the way, the Bitcoin address, that's something we quickly determined was legit.
COOPER: And hard to trace.
LEVIN: And hard to trace.
COOPER: Yes, Harvey Levin, I really appreciate your time tonight, thank you.
LEVIN: My pleasure, Anderson.
COOPER: I want to bring in CNN's chief law enforcement intelligence analyst, John Miller, also retired FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole and former Secret Service agent, Jonathan Wackrow. Well, Jon Miller, what stands out to you both, what Harvey said and what the FBI has said today?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, there's a lot of debate, you know, internally as to whether the letter is definitive enough in what it knows to be authentic. But Harvey makes the same point that some of the agents who believe and Sheriff's Department people who believe the letter is authentic is which is there are things in there that have leaked out, but there are specific pieces of information that happen to be right that seem too odd for a guess.
The second thing is creating this one-way communication, saying there's not going to be another communication. And these are the demands and these are the consequences puts the family in a real box. It is no accident that after clearly going out with the video last night with the whole family saying, we need to talk to you and we need proof of life, that having not heard anything today, they sent a second, much shorter, much more limited message today saying we need to have that conversation and we need that proof. They are doing something that that I would do, which is they're
talking through the deadline and they are setting a perimeter. Anderson, nobody's going to -- we don't know what the amount of this demand is, but let's assume it's in the millions of dollars. Nobody's going to send that kind of money to somebody who just asked for it in a note without evidence more than what's in there.
COOPER: Jonathan, what stands out to you?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I agree with John. I mean, the way that the note is structured, it's progressive, right? And they they're basically boxing the family in. If you don't do this, then the consequence is going to be so significant on Monday. It's either going to be a significant financial burden, but as Harvey had said, and we can all assume the worst is that it will now involve not money, but physical harm to Miss Guthrie, all of this is psychological by structure. The letter is intended to force the family into a decision to send money immediately absent of proof, and the family is now pushing back to say no, we need to have some level of confidence that our mother is alive, is safe, and that if we send this money -- so that's where you're seeing, as John said, they're talking through the deadline.
They're trying to get some level of engagement back. So, they have a level of confidence because the letter in itself could be somebody, a copycat actor, who may know that there was a watch, may have some knowledge of the house, but didn't take Miss Guthrie. So, there's a lot of things that are happening at the same time. Speed is essential here, but accuracy is more important when you're dealing with this because you don't want to make a mistake and you don't know if you're actually engaging with the wrong counterparty.
COOPER: I mean, it's an interesting detail that, you know, the Apple Watch is visible in a number of photos of Nancy Guthrie. I guess, it's the placement of it. Although how many different places could you know? There are certain places you would put an Apple Watch. You could take a guess. I mean, it's not necessarily definitive.
WACKROW: Correct, and again, this is where the pressure comes against the family and law enforcement. Are you willing to take that chance that this letter and the people behind this letter are authentic? They are the ones that are holding your mother at this time. That's a big leap to make. But again, its emotionally based. If they if the family feels confident, then they may move forward with it.
[20:15:11]
COOPER: Who deals with, John -- I mean, does the FBI or would they be the ones to try to actually talk to anybody who makes contact? Or is it does the FBI not get involved in that?
MILLER: So, the FBI was clear today that the decision whether to pay ransom and whether to pay it on these guys or something more definitive is the family's decision, not a decision the FBI is going to make. Will the FBI advise the family? Will they give advice based on their
experiences in other kidnaping? Sure, they will. But the family is under a tremendous amount of pressure. And what they're asking isn't impossible.
The people who are communicating with them, the person or persons, understands enough about this. And Harvey gave us some insight into this. You know, there's the tor browser, there's the onion browsers, there's proton. These are e-mails that, you know, use different techniques are constructed not to be able to be traced back. They used that probably to communicate with three media organizations. They can use it again to communicate with the family and provide additional information.
From the kidnaper's standpoint, why do you want to expose yourself by further communications? By the family's viewpoint, it would be we're going to need to know a little bit more.
COOPER: Mary Ellen, I mean, the Sheriff was careful today not to specify one way or the other if there were signs of forced entry. He did say that Miss Guthrie's doorbell camera was disconnected at 1:47 A.M. around, and that they're not been able to locate that camera. Does that suggest anything about whoever took her? And also, Harvey Levin saying it seemed like a rational actor, at least through the words used in a note?
MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR PROFILER FOR THE FBI: Yes, it certainly does to me and I'll tell you briefly what it means. It reinforces for me the suggestion that this was a well-planned out attack.
And when you have a low-risk victim, that is victimized in a low-risk environment, their own home in a nice neighborhood with very little crime that's occurring in the neighborhood, and then you have an offender who's able to access that victim in the middle of the night and possibly without breaking down a door or breaking a window, that tells me that there's a good possibility the victim was specifically targeted.
But number two, it also suggests that that that the planning had to include some kind of recon before this crime occurred and that recon could be, going through the neighborhood and seeing what the dynamics of that neighborhood were at 1:00 in the morning.
It could also have included going into that home without her knowing about it ahead of time. But this is the more, I'm hearing about this behavior at the crime scene and maybe, as the author of that note, this is somebody that, there's a certain maturity about this crime. And if they are also the author of that note, there's a certain level of maturity about that as well.
So now that the age range of the offender is going up a little bit for me, but I do think that that there was an awful lot of planning that took place in this crime. It's also hard for me to think that this offender is not getting a lot of excitement and satisfaction for being able to carry it out and feeling as though he has stumped law enforcement at least so far. So, I think he's having a reaction to all of this, and it's not a good one.
COOPER: It's interesting, though, because, you know, we've heard a lot lately about Bitcoin kidnappings or Bitcoin hostage taking where somebody is tortured to give up their passwords. This is not -- this is obviously not that. I mean, Miss Guthrie doesn't have access to passwords and the like.
MILLER: But the advantage is, the Bitcoin business, the crypto business, their argument is everything is recorded, everything is tracked, everything is traceable. The part that they don't mention is, it's traceable to what?
You can see that money went from this account to that account, but it won't tell you whose account that is. And then it goes from that account, spread across ten other accounts where its dispersed and then converted to cash or what else.
It's a maze in there, and there's blockchain ways and there's ways to crack it, if you're lucky. But there are so many different kinds of tokens out there and so many ways to mask that once you get into that dark hole. I don't want to say its untraceable, but it can be untraceable.
COOPER: Yes, John Miller, Jonathan Wackrow, Mary Ellen Otoole. Thank you.
Next, CNN's Ed Lavandera, who's at the scene, spoke today with the Pima County Sheriff. We'll talk to him and be joined as well by former FBI crisis negotiator.
And later, he's already put his name on the Kennedy Center. Are New York's Penn Station and Washington's Dulles Airport next for President Trump? We have got breaking news on that.
[20:20:10]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:24:20]
COOPER: We're now a bit more than an hour and 20 minutes past the first of two deadlines and a purported ransom letter in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. We do not know if the note is legitimate, nor have authorities said one way or another. Before the break, TMZ's Harvey Levin, who has seen the letter, was sent to TMZ said it begins with words that Miss Guthrie is, "safe but scared".
Just before airtime, daughter, Savannah Guthrie posted this brief plea to the captors from her brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. GUTHRIE: I'm speaking for the Guthrie family. Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need you to reach out and we need a way to communicate with you so we can move forward. But first, we have to know that you have our mom. We want to talk to you, and we are waiting for contact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:05]
COOPER: Joining us now is CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera, who is on the scene outside of Nancy Guthrie's house. What is the status of the investigation at this hour?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, a great deal of attention being paid to the ransom demand. And once again, you see the Guthrie family putting out another video. We should point out again, still not clear whether or not this is authentic. But clearly, the Guthrie family taking it very seriously, especially as it comes in light of around coming around 5:00 local time, which was one of the first deadlines mentioned.
But beyond that, investigators also say that they continue to work other fronts. We spent some time talking with the sheriff after the press conference today, and he told us that over the course of the last few days, there have been more than a hundred tips that have come into them, and they are trying to chase down all of them. He described how they categorized them all by levels of importance or likelihood of being helpful. So, there are teams kind of fanning out, chasing down whatever leads come through that.
So, he said it was more than a hundred of them, so not only are the FBI investigators working on the ransom side of this, but the Sheriff says that there are still many other investigators that are continuing to chase down all the other leads that are coming through.
COOPER: What else did the Sheriff have to say about the missing front door camera?
LAVANDERA: Well, this has to be really when you stop and think about it, the most frustrating part of all of this, Anderson, the sheriff says around 2:00 A.M., which is now kind of the pinpointed time where Nancy Guthrie was taken from her home, that the camera system inside the home and we are told there are multiple cameras were kind of taken down or disabled. But in that recording, the one of the cameras detected somebody. But there is no video available. We asked the Sheriff about that today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: There's multiple --
NANOS: Multiple cameras.
LAVANDERA: One on the front, and that's the one that's missing?
NANOS: It is the one at the front door area.
LAVANDERA: Are the other cameras missing?
NANOS: Not to our knowledge. We don't know that. You know, we don't know of any other camera missing.
LAVANDERA: Got it. So, it could been those other cameras that said person detected?
NANOS: Again, I don't know that, but I'm thinking that's possible, yes.
LAVANDERA: Okay, because if its --
NANOS: Because nobody's saying it's this camera, we don't know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: So here you have it, Anderson. You know, they have this information that something, a person was detected, and it's not clear if it came from the camera that was on the front of the door. And that is the camera that was taken and they do not have, but there are other cameras inside the house.
But it has to be incredibly frustrating for investigators to know that these cameras captured something that could be the most crucial piece of evidence in all of this, and they still haven't been able to find a way to access it technologically.
COOPER: Yes, Ed Lavandera, thanks very much. Along with Cameron Guthrie's plea tonight for whomever may be holding his mom to reach out to the family, again, we know that the FBI is investigating a ransom note that was apparently sent in connection with her disappearance.
They're working to determine if it's legitimate and say they're still waiting to establish contact with her abductor or abductors.
Joining us now is Richard Kolko, a retired FBI special agent and former FBI crisis negotiator.
So, Richard, what did what did you take away from what officials are saying about this ransom note? I don't know if you heard what Harvey Levin from TMZ was saying, based on what he read and the fact that there's been no contact and no proof of life.
RICHARD KOLKO, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Problematic Anderson, everybody wants this letter, especially the family. They want this to be true. They're clutching at anything they can to establish contact with their mother and right now, this is the best thing that they have. But there's got to be a lot of work that needs to be done to determine if it is valid.
And the fact that there is, at this point, no window for negotiation, very troubling. I've watched you the last couple of days, and you've had negotiators on there that have talked about the skills necessary active listening, rapport building, building empathy. If you're not communicating, you can't do those things. And that is what is critical to get to that point, for proof of life. That's what's going to make the Guthrie family more comfortable before anybody hits that Bitcoin enter button and sends off a lot of money. COOPER: The FBI also said the note contained two deadlines, one for
5:00 P.M. today, possibly Mountain Time, which was about 90 minutes ago, another deadline for this coming Monday, Harvey Levin said the consequences are indicated for Monday were more severe. What does that suggest to you, that there's two deadlines? Have you seen that before?
KOLKO: I really haven't, but that just means they want to find a way to get a resolution that they want. You have to look at there's not competing entities here, but both sides have something they want. The Guthries want their mother back and whoever is responsible for this wants the money. So, they both have a goal and they want to get to that goal. So, if that letter is accurate, then they will have to find some way to do that communication.
And I say that communication could happen in any number of ways. We're used to seeing those old movies where we saw these kidnappings and they had the ransom letters and the way that the law enforcement always got them was that that money drop, whether at the telephone booth or the park, and you were able to go track them down, that doesn't exist anymore. And now that they don't have to do the communication between the two families, that makes it very difficult as well.
[20:30:23]
I worked a case overseas once. We used a top 40 radio station to communicate with the hostage takers. We would send a cassette tape they'd play it at the top 40 station, the hostage takers would hear it. They would send a tape into the station, they play it, we'd hear it.
It took months for this case but it doesn't matter how it happens. There has to be some level of communication before they can validate this letter, before they can move forward and before -- if the family decides they want to pay that they're going to pay.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, also, I mean, given -- you know, if it's a crypto ransom sent online, what's to -- how could the family be sure that whoever did this would actually deliver Mrs. Guthrie?
KOLKO: They certainly can't. We've also heard the term and you've heard it several days. Everybody's very familiar with at this point, proof of life. If they can't get some version of proof of life and that has to be validated as well. Look at all the advancements now in AI that old thing about picking up the newspaper and showing a picture.
I'm holding a picture from today's date. That means nothing anymore. Anybody can recreate that. The videos are getting better and better, that can be recreated. So it comes down to having that word.
Every family should have this word. It's a word that you know validates proof of life. It's only that person would know that and it can't just be the name of the dog because you go back on Facebook and maybe find that they put the name of the dog in there seven years ago or nine years ago. So that word has to be in their mind. And based on Savannah's job at NBC, I think it's highly likely that their security department at some point briefed her on making sure your family has a word like that. So they may already have that if they get that opportunity. If there is negotiation, they can get that proof of life and then they can validate this letter. And then the family, as John Miller said, will have to make that decision if they want to pay this money.
COOPER: Richard Kolko, I appreciate your time and expertise. Thank you.
Up next, since the notorious abduction of Charles Lindbergh's son nearly a century ago, relatives of famous and wealthy people have been targets for kidnappers. We'll take a look at that. Could Nancy Guthrie's disappearance be related to her daughter Savannah's fame as anchor of the NBC Today show?
More of our breaking news coverage ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:43]
COOPER: Tonight there are many unanswered questions about the abduction of Nancy Guthrie including this one. Is there a link to her daughter's notoriety as longtime co-anchor of NBC's Today program? Impossible to say for sure at this point, but as history shows us over the years, relatives of famous and wealthy people have often been the targets of kidnappers.
More now from CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The horrifying ordeal of Frank Sinatra Jr. began while he was filling an engagement at Lake Tahoe.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): High-profile kidnappings present a bewildering array of scenarios and results. For example, the 1963 case of Frank Sinatra Jr. The 19-year-old was snatched by two men from his hotel in Northern California stuck in a car trunk and driven 400 miles to Los Angeles. His famous father paid almost a quarter million dollars. The kidnappers were caught. His son was released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a long rest at his mother's house after nearly three days with little sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody has ever been richer than you are at this moment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no money to spare.
FOREMAN (voice-over): The film "All the Money in the World" depicted the kidnapping of John Paul Getty III in Italy just 10 years later. The crew that took him demanded $17 million from the teenager's grandfather which J. Paul Getty refused. But after the amount was reduced amid evidence of torture, payment was made, the victim was released, and nine people were arrested.
In 1974, a gunman shot four people and tried to kidnap England's Princess Anne as she arrived back at the palace in her car one evening. Jumping in, the gunman told a 23-year-old to get out. She replied not bloody likely. He was nabbed and sent to a mental hospital.
That same year, newspaper heiress Patty Hearst was kidnapped by radicals in California. While her family negotiated her release she began showing up in robberies working with the gang. Hearst claimed she had been brainwashed but wound up doing jail time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know that what you're doing is completely stupid.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Another infamous kidnapping captured in a movie, the 1983 taking of beer magnate Freddy Heineken and his driver in Amsterdam. That job was meticulously planned. The family paid $18 million but the kidnappers were swept up anyway and sent to prison.
Still since the days of the infamous kidnapping and eventual murder of the baby of famed aviator Charles Lindbergh in New Jersey, much has changed. Modern surveillance tools have been adopted by criminals and investigators. Cryptocurrency is making it harder to follow the money.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: You move the money from one place to a crypto account that then could disperse to 20 other crypto accounts, well that is the ransom drop and it's really hard to follow that money once it enters that system. You can track it to different places but it doesn't tell you much about who's at the other end of those places getting that money. It's a maze.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Yet the uncertainty and suffering of families remains.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: More in the purported ransom letter demanding millions in Bitcoin for Nancy Guthrie's return, I'm joined by Ari Redbord, Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs, a blockchain intelligence firm. Ari, appreciate you being with us. Is it as untraceable as people have said?
[20:40:10]
ARI REDBORD, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's really not, but it's one tool in a toolbox that investigators have. The first thing that you look for in a letter like this is, is there a Bitcoin address. And if there is, what you know is that every transaction to and from that address, it moves on an immutable public ledger. Write a blockchain.
So you're able to use tools like TRM to track and trace the flow of funds. And it becomes this cat and mouse game, right? The bad actors are moving funds in and out of addresses and you're tracking them hopefully potentially to a cryptocurrency exchange which actually might have the underlying user information.
Because right at the end of the day, what you want to do is take that cryptocurrency address and associate it with an individual actor. So then you can go ahead and use all the law enforcement authorities that we typically use in the real world, right? Get cell records, get email accounts, and really start to understand who the person is behind that account.
So it really -- a lot of it depends on, is this a criminal network? Is this address already associated with illicit activity? Or is it actually sending funds to a cryptocurrency exchange that might have that underlying data?
COOPER: So how, I mean, how feasible is it to actually track? I mean that's sounds complicated. Not impossible. But what does it depend on? Just the knowledge of the people trying to hide the -- hide it?
REDBORD: So there are tools. I work for a company called TRM Labs and we make a blockchain tracing tool that law enforcement across the world uses to track and trace the flow of funds on blockchains. So we'll have this address in this ransom note and we'll be able to say, hey, where are those funds going from that account? Where are they coming -- where are funds coming into this account?
And we're able to identify potentially a network of other illicit actors are involved with this cryptocurrency address to try to build information, very much the same way you would in the real world with cell records and email accounts and other types of doing surveillance and other types of indicia. Except you're following the money on blockchains instead of in transfers of, you know, bulk cash smuggling and wire transfers and networks of shell companies. You actually have a lot more visibility on chain in terms of those financial flows.
COOPER: And ultimately, is there a financial institution or a cryptocurrency exchange that one can serve a subpoena on or ask for cooperation from?
REDBORD: So that's -- so you -- that's absolutely the key. You know, while transactions are happening on chain in different people's wallets, you might not be able to identify them with a specific individual. But if those funds go to a cryptocurrency exchange, essentially a on-chain bank, they will have the underlying know your customer information right, who opened that account.
And that's when you're really off and running. That's where law enforcement sends that subpoena, that legal process to get that underlying information. And then maybe you have a name. And this has happened before in similar cases. There was a case involving a string of armed robberies and home invasions up and down the East Coast particularly in Florida where the perpetrators, these were more these wrench attacks you talked about on the show earlier.
But they were able to actually identify specific cryptocurrency exchange at addresses associated with individuals. Get that underlying data and make those critical arrests. It actually resulted in the largest per sentence in a case like this.
COOPER: That's fascinating.
Ari Redbord, I appreciate your expertise. Thank you so much.
REDBORD: Thank you for having me.
Coming up next, the president's demand to put his name on Dulles Airport and New York's Penn Station all for the low low price of freeing up more than $16 billion for badly needed infrastructure that Congress already approved. Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:57]
COOPER: Tonight, President Trump officially unveiled his new direct- to-consumer website that he claims will lower prescription drug costs. It's a government site but of course he has named it after himself, TrumpRx.gov. He's also done of course Trump gold cards for paid visas.
But his latest move to plaster his name on government projects is kind of next level. Sources say he told Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York that he would unfreeze billions of federal dollars already earmarked for a new rail tunnel under the Hudson River if Senator Schumer agrees to rename New York's Penn Station and Washington's Dulles Airport after Donald J. Trump.
Schumer swiftly rejected the offer apparently and said he does not have the power to do such a thing. We asked the White House for a comment. They did not respond.
I'm going to talk about it with Kara Swisher, CNN Contributor and host of the "On" and "Pivot" podcast. I mean, I got to say, it's --
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
COOPER: -- a lot. I mean, the Kennedy Center --
SWISHER: Yes, it's a lot. It's a lot.
COOPER: -- Dulles Airport and Penn Station?
SWISHER: Yes. Yes. Well, you know, we can always change signs later. I mean, I think there's that part about it. So, I mean, this is someone who's plastered his names all over everything, you know, everywhere he can do it whether it's stakes or casino tour --
COOPER: I mean, at a certain point, it's just sad, isn't it?
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: Isn't it just kind of sad?
SWISHER: Well, look, I'm not an expert in this -- the political parts of this. There's two things I actually do know about the economic impact which is bad for New York if this thing doesn't get done. This is a vibrant city that is critically important to our country. And to hold up funding because he wants his name on it, seems a toddler level kind of request.
And speaking of toddlers, as a parent, the only thing I can think of is he needs his name over it because his parents didn't hug him enough. I don't know. I don't know what happened here that he desperately needs this kind of affirmation.
And I -- you know, if a school wants to someday call it, you know, Trump high school, sure why not. That's up to the communities and various people. But this is, you know, asking for it yourself. It's the same, you know, Nobel Prize --
COOPER: Yes, I mean, it's like the Nobel Prize thing, like, why would you want somebody else's prize or like a white -- why not go to high schools --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- and take kids medals from their road races. I mean --
[20:50:08]
SWISHER: Right, exactly. I mean, do you want anything named after you, Anderson?
COOPER: No, I don't really. I mean, it's just such a strange need to see your name --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- on things which, again, this is taxpayer money --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- which has already been earmarked for these things that you are holding up so that you can have your name on it.
SWISHER: Yes, but he's done it before. Like, let's be clear. You go to Chicago and there it is, you know, or wherever city you go to, there's always a Trump something with his name on it somewhere. Vegas, I was just in Vegas. And so it's not a new thing, right?
COOPER: Well, yes, I know but that's in private business. I mean you would think --
SWISHER: Sure.
COOPER: -- at some point in --
SWISHER: You would think.
COOPER: Yes. And, I mean, just -- he's reached the highest pinnacle you can possibly reach as president of the United States. What more do you like? You need your name -- SWISHER: What more does it -- Mount Rushmore --
COOPER: Yes.
SWISHER: -- from what I understand.
COOPER: What else is going to fill the void?
SWISHER: I would counter with saying he's 79 years old and he's not going to change. And so we either have to just shrug our shoulders and maybe scrub it later or let him have one of them I guess. I don't know. I don't know. It's so ridiculous and it doesn't focus on like an important thing which is the economic issue of those tunnels and the ability to get in and out of New York which still remains the most critical financial hub of this world really.
COOPER: And New York and New Jersey are suing the Trump administration over the freeze alleged --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- in a complaint filed earlier.
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: That the funding suspension is unlawful.
SWISHER: Of course it is. Right.
COOPER: I don't know if this reporting might work in those states favor. I don't -- maybe, maybe not.
SWISHER: Maybe, maybe not. But though -- I mean it would be fun to be deposed about it. Or did you do this? Did you do this? It's not -- he doesn't look good. But again it slows it down. It makes it problem. You know, it's a shakedown and it's a bad shakedown but it's a shakedown and it's a very similar kind of thing that he does all the time.
These -- I just did a really interesting interview with Larry Lessig talking about this. You do just enough of a shakedown for people to pause or do things because he never goes totally far or -- well he does of course what happened in Minnesota. But there is precedent for holding out and saying, no, I don't think so, sir. Sir -- and you have to say sir. But that's fine. I don't care.
COOPER: Well, also, I mean, the law firms that did resist him, you know --
SWISHER: That's right.
COOPER: -- very quickly succeeded in court and the ones like Paul Weiss --
SWISHER: That's correct. COOPER: -- and others that folded. I'm sure there were a lot of people -- from what I've read, there were a lot of people within a lawyer -- within Paul Weiss who were annoyed how quickly they folded.
SWISHER: Yes, I think, but still, you know, the problem is that a lot of these law firms now make their business with corporate --
COOPER: Right.
SWISHER: -- clients rather than individual clients. And so they have to do something. And I think, you know, oddly enough, I interviewed Abbe Lowell today who's the lawyer to all these people. And, you know, they're -- they have to maintain their businesses, so it's a risk reward calculation.
COOPER: Yes. Yes. Kara Swisher, as always, thank you so much.
SWISHER: Thank you.
COOPER: Up next, a preview of new episode of my podcast and grief "All There Is." My guest this week is Megan Falley, the wife of the late poet Andrea Gibson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You started to use the word allegedly when you talk about Andrea's death which I kind of love. Can you talk about that a little bit?
MEGAN FALLEY: It felt so weird to talk with such certainty to say Andrea died as if any of us even know what that means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:41]
COOPER: A new episode of my podcast "All There Is" about grief and loss is just out tonight. My guest this week is Megan Falley. Megan is the wife of the late poet Andrea Gibson. That's Andrea on the left, Megan on the right. Andrea's fight against terminal cancer and the incredible love affair that Megan and Andrea shared is the focus of an extraordinary documentary titled "Come See Me in the Good Light" which has been nominated for an Oscar. Andrea died this past July.
Here's part of my conversation with Megan who's also a poet and a writer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I saw something you wrote where you say you started to use the word allegedly when you talk about his death, which I kind of love. Can you talk about that a little bit?
FALLEY: It felt so weird to talk with such certainty it to say Andrea died as if any of us even know what that means.
COOPER: We actually don't know what it means, I don't think.
COOPER: No, I mean, it's true.
FALLEY: And I had felt so many sort of signs and communications that it felt -- it just didn't feel right and it still doesn't to say Andrea died. There's been a lot of little -- just little nods maybe or winks.
COOPER: Do you feel that?
FALLEY: Cosmic flirtations. I don't know. I do. I really -- I do. I mean there have been some that feel like too wild to ignore and then there feel like other things where maybe I'm like choosing to see it a bit more and why wouldn't I make that choice.
So I love saying that Andrea allegedly died to my limited understanding of a body and a spirit. Andrea's language is very important to me. So if I feel like something is not quite getting it right, I'm going to make whatever adjustments I need.
COOPER: I think that idea --
FALLEY: I invite you to try it, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, no, I mean, I'm crying because what you said is so unique and I think true. And, yes, we have no idea what this means, you know? I mean, yes, we have no idea what death means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can listen to the full conversation wherever you get your podcast or watch the entire episode at CNN.com/AllThereIs.
The news continues. I'll see tomorrow. The Source of Kaitlan Collins starts now.
