Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Gives Conflicting Answers On How Long War Will Last; White House Weighing Sending Troops To Retrieve Iran's Uranium; Interview With Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ); Australia Grants Asylum To Five Iranian Women Footballers; Trump Gives Conflicting Answers On How Long War Will Last; "If I Don't Return: A Father's Wartime Journal". Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 09, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: According to federal prosecutors, both men said they were inspired by ISIS when they were arrested. One of the suspects reportedly saying that he wanted to carry out an attack bigger than the Boston bombing. Of course, you remember the Tsarnaev brothers with so much death and destruction.
Mamdani called it a heinous act of terrorism. Thank you so much for joining us here, our breaking coverage will continue of course here tomorrow. And now, we hand it off to AC360, which starts now.
[20:00:39]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening.
We begin our CNN global war coverage tonight with breaking news on two fronts. Here in the U.S. with the Presidential press conference and in the Middle East as a new day is about to dawn.
We saw this Israeli air strike in Beirut earlier today. Israel has been targeting the Iranian backed militant group Hezbollah and says it continues to strike targets after they say Hezbollah fired projectiles into Israel.
In Bahrain, Iranian drone attacks injured at least 32, according to authorities, including a two-month-old baby, two young boys and a 17- year-old girl. It happened on the island city of Sitra, which is near the capital. It's also home to the country's main state-run oil refinery, which was set ablaze by Iranian attacks. This comes, of course in the wake of Israeli strikes on Iran's oil infrastructure that continue to send clouds of black smoke into Tehran.
All of this, combined with Iran placing a near choke hold on Middle East Oil in the Strait of Hormuz has sent shock waves into the world's oil markets and created the biggest oil disruption in history. The price of oil neared $120.00 a barrel earlier today, before settling at just under $100.00 while gas in the U.S. has jumped $0.51 a gallon just in the last week. All of this has created concern in the White House. The President called a hastily arranged press conference this afternoon. It was his first formal press conference ten days into this war.
President covered a lot of ground, including suggesting the war, which he called an excursion, might be nearing its end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We've carried out some of the most powerful and complex military strikes and maneuvers the world has ever seen. We're achieving major strides toward completing our military objective, and some people could say they're pretty well complete.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: When our reporter followed up asking if that meant a week, he said no, but soon very soon. as to why the U.S. decided to act against Iran now. The President and his administration have offered a number of reasons over the last ten days. Tonight, the President offered several during the 34-minute press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The situation was very quickly approaching the point of no return, and the United States found it intolerable in my opinion, based on what Steve and Jared and Pete and others were telling me, Marco, so involved that I thought that they were going to attack us. I thought they would, if we didn't do this at the time we did it, I think they had in mind to attack U.S.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Claims that Iran was planning a preemptive attack were contradicted in Pentagon briefings to Capitol Hill lawmakers previously that states Iran was not planning to attack unless struck first. The President also said that Iran was planning to preemptively attack its Gulf neighbors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If we did not hit them, they were going to take over the Middle East. They had thousands and thousands since their last hit. They had thousands and thousands of missiles and everything else. Most are now destroyed, but they were going to take over the Middle East. Those weapons were aimed at Middle Eastern countries that had nothing to do with this. They were going to take over the Middle East and they were going to try and destroy Israel. So, we stopped it with good timing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The President also suggested that he approved the military action after the Iranians wouldn't commit to abandoning their nuclear ambitions and negotiations with his Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They were not willing to say that and when Steve called up and he said that to me, I said, well here we go. Let's do it the hard way.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: So, a lot to cover tonight. We have learned the identity of
the seventh U.S. service member killed in the line of duty. His name is Army Sergeant Benjamin N. Pennington from Glendale, Kentucky. He was 26 years old. He was injured a week ago at Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia. He died yesterday of those injuries. We're expecting his dignified transfer at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware tonight and we'll bring that to you if it occurs during this hour.
Starting off tonight with CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, Israel. So, Jeremy, how are President Trump's remarks likely to be received in Israel?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, for days now, Israeli officials have been watching, you know, perplexed sometimes concerned as President Trump has offered varying assessments of this current war, of how long it may last and what its goals are. And I think after tonight, Israeli officials will at least have a sense that President Trump is along for the ride for at least some time longer. But for how much longer, still, very much remains a question. As President Trump, you know, did not offer the same kind of full-throated backing of the goal of regime change, that Israeli officials are certainly seeking.
Israeli officials in recent days have indicated that not only are they going for a regime change but they are committed to carrying out this war for as long as that process may ultimately take.
[20:05:33]
President Trump, for his part, talked about preventing Iranian leaders of in any capacity whatsoever of developing weaponry that could be used against the United States. That was perhaps his clearest articulation yet of what his end goal is for this war. And so, some questions now about the kind of daylight between Israel and the United States on the ultimate aims of this war, and for how much longer President Trump will remain committed to it. As he said today, this idea that he could call this war a tremendous success now, but he will continue on with it for a little while longer.
COOPER: And I understand you have new reporting tonight about Israel considering a deeper incursion into Lebanon.
DIAMOND: Yes, that's right, Anderson, we have been watching as this second front in Israel's war with Iran has very much been heating up. Israel carrying out airstrikes in Lebanon, ordering the evacuation of hundreds of thousands of people in the Lebanese capital, and Hezbollah carrying out not only missile and rocket attacks, drone attacks against communities in Northern Israel, killing two soldiers wounding several more in attacks just this past Friday and now amid all of that, the Israeli Prime Minister gathered for a security consultation tonight with his security officials to talk about the situation in Lebanon and one of the ideas on the table was the possibility of deepening Israels military presence inside Southern Lebanon.
We know that Israeli troops currently control several military positions inside Lebanese territory, but it is only a couple of kilometers inside of Southern Lebanon. And now, the Israeli military, the Israeli Prime Minister weighing deepening that military presence with a further ground operation inside of Lebanon. It's not how clear that may go but it does come as we've been witnessing the massing of tanks and personnel along that northern border -- Anderson.
COOPER: Jeremy Diamond, Jeremy, thanks very much. As we mentioned in Florida today, President Trump spoke about the war with Iran, said the operation may be, "pretty well complete" his words. Chief White House correspondent anchor of "The Source" Kaitlan Collins, joins us now. Caitlin, does the President's timeline track with what you've been hearing from others in the White House?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": Well, we've been hearing a lot, Anderson. I mean, even just in the span of a couple of hours from the President himself about how much longer this could go on because today, before the markets closed, notably, as we were seeing so much activity in them today with the spike in oil prices, the President was telling CBS News that it was pretty much complete. And then when he came out before the cameras tonight around 6:00 P.M. Eastern, obviously after the markets had closed, he seemed to be signaling that there is still more to go, that they still have more to do in Iran before their objectives are complete.
But it's not really clear exactly what those objectives are in terms of what specifically needs to be done for him to feel that this is over in Iran because the President has given multiple answers on that front, Anderson. As you know, is what we've heard from the last several days, including tonight when he was saying that he needs to ensure that Iran doesn't have the ability not only to not strike the United States, but also not strike Israel or other neighboring allies in the region, that obviously Iran has been going after in recent days. And so, we had heard from the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, on Friday in a taped interview where he said this was only the beginning.
When the President was asked directly about those conflicting messages, you heard him say that both could be true, and he talked about building a great country in Iran, which is also goes against what we've heard from Secretary Hegseth, who has said this is not nation building.
And so, I do think there's still a lot of questions in terms of how much longer this could go on, though the President seemed to be trying to send the message today that it is not much longer. But honestly, it's kind of hard to know because of how many different messages we are getting from the administration on this.
COOPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins thanks so much. We'll see you at the top of the hour on the story. You have a joint interview with Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, Adam Schiff, Cory Booker and Tammy Baldwin. Joining us now, former Trump National Security adviser John Bolton. He also served as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations during the George W. Bush administration.
Ambassador, what do you make of the President saying he thinks the Iran war could be over very soon? He told CBS the war was, quote, very, very complete. What do you how do you interpret those comments?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, any way you want which is kind of typical with the President. I mean it could be true it could be that were within a few days. That's what very soon sounds like to me. Number two, he could be manipulating the markets. I mean we know oil prices had risen dramatically. In the morning, American time, stock markets went down dramatically on his mere words those two markets reversed direction. And if there's anything that the President is obsessed about, its markets and especially the price of gasoline at the pump.
The third thing, which may be the real explanation, is that he is ready to declare total victory. And we know at some point, whatever the situation, when he wants to get out, he's going to get out saying we had total victory. So, this may have been a kind of running start to get that ready. I don't think you can emerge from his comments over the course of the day with any clear idea, whatsoever, how close we are to this, this phase of the operation.
[20:10:43]
COOPER: Does that make it harder for everybody else who is actually planning and running a military, running the war to, I mean how do you deal with that as a, you know, policymaker, as a military officer, as a, you know, political advisor?
BOLTON: Well, I think they have to be very frustrated with it and I think it reduces the chance, which was already pretty small, that were going to get more allies to come in on this because if the President can't outline effectively what the what our goals are and how were going to go about them others are not going to jump in and I think that's a mistake. I think we should, what he should have done well before the announcement last weekend, it's been quietly working with allies to get as many to participate as possible, even if just in very, very small numbers, very small capabilities, I think. I think you could have built an alliance because there's a compelling case that the Iranian nuclear weapon effort and its support for terrorism formed the basis of an argument to remove the regime but he didn't make any effort.
You know, you don't build coalitions after you start the war. Normally you try and do it beforehand.
COOPER: So, if the U.S. declares victory in several days or a week, the current new Iranian leader is still alive and still in power. He's the son of the old leader, and the revolutionary guard corps still has all the weapons and militia groups as well. Is this a, what's been accomplished?
BOLTON: Well, this is an example of mowing the grass, as its sometimes called, and it's a complete mistake because it leaves the potential for the regime to rebuild. That's what we mowed the grass in the 12- day war last summer -- 12 days of Israeli attacks, one day of U.S. attacks. And the President said victory, we've obliterated the nuclear program, it's over. Well, we didn't obliterate the nuclear program. It wasn't over. Now we're back doing this. And if he stops it while the regime is still in power, this regime is a radical ideologically motivated regime that will simply rebuild the connections with the terrorist groups and their nuclear program. If you want an Iran without a nuclear weapons program and that doesn't support terrorist groups, this regime has to be removed.
COOPER: AXIOS had previously reported the U.S. was considering sending in Special Forces to secure or somehow dilute Iran's enriched Uranium stockpile, assuming they knew where it was. CNN is reporting tonight, according to seven current and former officials, that a mission like that would require a significant number of U.S. ground troops beyond a small special operations footprint. Do you think that's an operation the U.S. should carry out?
BOLTON: Well, I said last week that I thought that we should consider something to secure the key sites in the weapons program, the Natanz, Isfahan, Fordow, maybe a couple of others and the reason for that is that we don't want any of the materials, equipment, files sensitive materials removed from those sites not for the regime in Iran, not for terrorist groups to pick up.
In my mind, you would you would do that when the regime was beginning to come apart and fall. And the main point would be to avoid losing any of that material, not to run in and try and get it out. The Uranium itself, the partially enriched Uranium. I don't know exactly how the Iranians do it. The way we store Uranium Hexafluoride is in containers that weigh thousands of pounds. And so, it's not something you can just kind of pick up and put on a helicopter. But keeping the area secure from people who would like to get that material and sell it to rogue states or terrorist groups, I think definitely worth looking at some kind of military security.
COOPER: Ambassador John Bolton, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
Coming up next, Iran warns of "surprises after heavy airstrikes and some of its oil facilities. Let's get a live report, an update from CNN's Fred Pleitgen, who is in Tehran after Iranians took to the streets of the capital showing support for the new Supreme Leader as our global war coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:15]
COOPER: Thousands of Iranians filled a Central Square in Tehran today, a very public show of support for the new Supreme Leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, son of the late Supreme Leader. According to Iranian State Media, similar rallies were held in the city of Isfahan and other parts of the country.
CNN has a team on the ground in Iran. Fred Pleitgen and photojournalist Claudia Otto is in Tehran. Their movements are monitored by the Iranian government. Today, Fred talked with the top official who said that Iran is prepared for a long war and claimed the regime is still intact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Iran has a new Supreme Leader. What does that mean for your military effort and the confrontation with the United States and in Israel?
KAMAL KHARAZI, FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER TO IRAN'S SUPREME LEADER: That means the system is quite functioning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Fred Pleitgen joins us now. So, you attended that that rally that was in support of the supreme leader. What was it like?
[20:20:08]
PLEITGEN: It was huge, it was massive. There were thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of people, Anderson, who turned out it was an Enqelab Square, which is Revolutionary Square, obviously celebrating the Islamic revolution. And there really was a two-fold message. On the one hand, people they were mourning the death of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the late Supreme Leader who, of course, was killed in an airstrike a little over a week ago, and then also pledging allegiance to the new Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Mojtaba Khamenei, who of course, is the second eldest son of the late Supreme Leader.
A lot of people there were very angry at the current situation. I have to say, a lot of the people were pretty charged up screaming death to America, death to Israel. Certainly, a lot more so and a lot more forcefully than we've witnessed in the past. And we've seen a lot of events similar to this one in the past. It was very large, and you could tell that the people there were really angry at the Trump administration, very angry, obviously at Israel as well. But at the same time also tried to project that the governing forces here are still very much in control, Anderson, and also that there is a succession in place and that the leadership here in this country is still very much intact.
COOPER: Fred Pleitgen, appreciate it. Thank you.
Joining us now is Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly who sits on the Intelligence and Armed Services Committees. He's also a retired Navy Captain and pilot who flew dozens of combat missions in Operation Desert Storm during the first Gulf War. So, Senator, the President said he thinks the Iran war could be over very soon. He called it an excursion. Does that sound realistic to you?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, I mean, who knows with Donald Trump? I mean, he went into this without a strategic goal, without a plan, without a timeline, and now he calls this an excursion. We have seven dead Americans. There are probably about 150, if not more Iranian children that are dead, other casualties in the region and the end, I mean I don't know, I don't think anybody knows. I think Donald Trump ultimately at some point is going to decide, you know, when this ends, his Secretary of Defense, I think, said today or yesterday that we're at the beginning of this conflict. So, I think the President needs to, you know sit down and listen to the people around him. At least the few people that know what they're doing and start to come up with a plan here. What is the exit strategy and explain it to the American people. And by the way, Anderson, I don't see what the American people are getting out of this.
You know, we've got dead Americans. We've got the possibility of boots on the ground, which could lead to a lot more, casualties, you know, on our side. And it's incredibly frustrating, I have to say that.
COOPER: You don't think that there's anything that the United States accomplished in this thus far?
KELLY: Well, I mean, we sunk some of their Navy ships, we've destroyed some of their launch capability for the ballistic missiles. They fired a lot of ballistic missiles on our side. We have fired a lot of interceptors, PAC-3 rounds for Patriots, other defensive missiles. We've got a math problem here; regime change didn't happen. The son of the Ayatollah might be worse than the dad. We don't know yet, and I think only time is going to tell.
The President said last summer we obliterated the nuclear weapons that they had, and the uranium, that wasn't the case, because now they're talking about ground operations to remove what's left.
So, I don't see from a strategic perspective what was accomplished. This isn't like the first Gulf War that I fought in, where the goal was to kick the Iraqi military out of Kuwait. And when we achieved that goal, we had a timeline to achieve it and we achieved it we pulled out. I haven't seen anything like that from this President.
COOPER: AXIOS had previously reported the U.S. was considering sending in Special Forces to secure or try to dilute Iran's enriched uranium stockpile, you referenced this. CNN's reporting tonight that according to seven current and former officials, that kind of a mission would require a lot of ground troops, frankly, not just a small special operations footprint. Is that something you think would be a good idea?
KELLY: Well, I am in the camp that where the Iranians cannot get a nuclear weapon. And the problem with this is if you go back to 2018, when Donald Trump was in the White House, he tore up the Iran nuclear deal. They were not enriching Uranium to the point where they could develop a nuclear weapon. But Donald Trump didn't like it because it was something his predecessor put in place and he tore it up. And that's how we got to where we are today, you know, I do, you know, I believe that we've got to make sure that they do not get a nuclear weapon. That is that is clear. Putting a massive force on the ground to remove what is remaining could result in the in a lot of death of U.S. service members.
[20:25:38]
So, I would want to see what is the what is the plan for this operation. Do we have any allies involved? How do we mitigate and minimize the risk to our service members? And so far, what I've seen is mostly like a clown show out of the White House on this. We have the Secretary of State saying things that are different than what the Secretary of Defense says. The President will say something new. They haven't even been able to explain. I've got a running list, Anderson, of I'm up to 9 or 10 reasons why we're even in this conflict. And it just grows by grows by the day.
So, yes, I mean, this has been a strategic mess that were in with no plan on how why we got in and how to conduct these operations and no plan on how to get out.
COOPER: Senator Mark Kelly, I appreciate your time tonight thank you. Just ahead, Australia granting humanitarian visas to members of the Iranian Women's soccer team who have been branded traitors by state run media. We'll explain ahead.
Also, what might be next for Iran as U.S. and Israeli bombs rained down, but the regime is still intact. We'll be joined by a prominent Iranian exile who lives in the U.S.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:12]
COOPER: Tonight, at least five members of the Iranian women's soccer team applied for and have been granted humanitarian visas by the Australian government while competing in a tournament in Australia.
The team angered their government by failing to sing the national anthem before their first match last week. Iranian state TV branded them as traitors and there's fear they'll be persecuted upon returning to Iran.
Supporters surrounded the bus after their final match, shouting at police to save our girls. Even President Trump phoned Australia's Prime Minister asking him to offer them protection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Further, late last night, we issued five humanitarian visas to members of the Iranian women's soccer team. We've been preparing for this for some time. Australians have been moved by the plight of these brave women.
They're safe here and they should feel at home here. We're willing to provide assistance to other women in the team, noting that this is a very delicate situation and it is up to them. But we say to them, if you want our help, help is here and we will provide that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There's a report that the families of three of the five women granted visas have been threatened.
Just like those players, my next guest knows firsthand what it's like to leave Iran. In Reza Aslan's latest op-ed in the New York Times titled The Mistake that Iranians Make About America, he speaks about his family escaping Iran in 1979, what's likely to come next for the country. The Iranian-American writer, religious scholar, is the author of "An American Martyr in Persia," and he joins us.
Now, Reza, it's good to see you. In your op-ed about your family fleeing Iran the same year as the revolution, you wrote about -- you at five years old seeing Jimmy Carter in Tehran and this feeling, this hope that America might liberate Iran. And you wrote the old fantasy of America's savior is returning.
I'm wondering what's going through your mind tonight when you hear President Trump say that the war could be over very soon.
REZA ASLAN, AUTHOR, "AN AMERICAN MARTYR IN PERSIA": Well, I think what he means by that is that he is just going to declare victory and move on. I mean, the idea that we are going to achieve any of the stated goals that we have in this conflict, despite the fact that those goals are many and very indistinct, in the next, you know, so many days or whatever is kind of a fantasy.
I think really what we are seeing in Iran right now with the consolidation of the hardliners in power with greater repression on the Iranian people, with an economy that was already on the verge of collapse having completely fallen apart with the environmental damage.
In fact, there's hardly any drinkable water left in Tehran. That is the reality of this war. That is what Trump is going to be leaving behind. And, you know, he'll, like I say, he'll probably just call that a measure of victory and move on to the next thing.
COOPER: President Trump says he's disappointed by the selection of Iran's new supreme leader, the son of the former supreme leader, backed by the Revolutionary Guard. He also said late today that he had no idea who's going to run Iran.
I'm wondering what you expect. I mean, is this the, you know, from this new supreme leader, which frankly, there's a lot of Iranians that we've talked about the last couple of days who've never even heard his voice before. He doesn't have the profile that certainly his father had.
ASLAN: Yes, well, on this, President Trump and I agree. Disappointed is one way of putting it. Look, for decades, the Iranian regime has justified its concentration of power by claiming religious legitimacy, right? The whole point of the supreme leader is that he's not just a political leader, but he is the most learned jurist, the highest cleric in the land, which makes him uniquely qualified for this bizarre position as Supreme Leader.
[20:35:05]
And that claim, by the way, had already been under strain. It was already badly eroded by decades of brutal repression, by massive corruption scandals, by an economy that I say has been steadily hollowed out for most Iranians.
But now, the idea that the son of Ali Khamenei, Mojtaba Khamenei, who is not an ayatollah, who is a mid-level cleric, who has never held any kind of meaningful post in Iran before, who has never been elected to any kind of office, who has absolutely no legitimacy to this claim of supreme leader, that he is getting this position simply because he is the son of the previous guy. That absolutely destroys the very foundation of the Islamic Republic.
This is a regime that came to power specifically because it wanted to fight the idea of hereditary rule. That was the whole notion of the revolution. Let's get rid of this notion of hereditary kingship. And what they have just done is essentially replace the crown king for the turban.
And we may say, what does this matter? I mean, it's still a repressive country no matter who runs it. It's still a police state, et cetera, et cetera. But I want your viewers to know that this actually does matter. The religious argument in Iran still holds water for a large swath of Iranians.
But for many clerics, for many seminary students, for many pious Iranians, the idea that this position can simply pass from father to son puts a lie to the whole notion of what the Islamic Republic was founded upon. It's really the last crack in the religious legitimacy of this regime.
COOPER: That's fascinating. Reza Aslan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up, President Trump said tonight that the war would be over very soon. Up next, perspective on that and a lot more from two retired military commanders with decades of experience in the region.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:10]
ANDERSON: Well, the United States has struck more than 5,000 targets since the war began in Iran. The president says in his press conference today that the operation is ahead of schedule and could be ending soon, in his words, and also said it could go further. Today, he also told CBS that the war was, quote, very complete.
Many of the administration's stated military goals appear to remain weeks away, and CNN has learned a ground operation to secure Iran's nuclear stockpile could also be on the table.
Joining me now, retired Vice Admiral Robert Harward, a former deputy CENTCOM commander. He's also a member of the Iran Policy Project at the Jewish Institute for National Security of America, and retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He's the author of a wonderful new book, which is very moving, called "If I Don't Return: A Father's Wartime Journal," which we're going to talk about a little bit later on in the program.
First of all, General Hertling, just what's your reaction to where we are right now in this war?
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.) FORMER U.S. ARMY COMMANDING GENERAL, EUROPE AND SEVENTH ARMY: Well, we've portrayed the military element of this campaign as being effective, efficient, and near complete. When we're talking about, as you just said, 5,000 strikes in a seven-day period, eight-day period, that's an awful lot of kinetic operations going on.
The question remains, as you've been talking about all night, what's next? What's going to happen after the last bomb drops? What are we going to do? Some of the other things that are creeping up, the potential use of special operations forces, the use of perhaps pulling the Kurds into this.
And I know Admiral Harward is going to say some things about that. But that's a tough set of circumstances when you're combining air campaign with special ops with potential conventional operations, it gets pretty complex. I wouldn't say it's easy to run an air campaign, but it's a lot easier than bringing in ground troops.
COOPER: Admiral, when -- how do you interpret the president's comments today that the U.S. has made major strides in its war with Iran and suggesting the operation may be pretty well complete?
Oh, Admiral Harward, can you hear me?
ROBERT HARWARD, FORMER DEPUTY CENTCOM COMMANDER: Yes, I can hear you good.
COOPER: OK, good.
COOPER: So what do you make of where do you think we are in the war right now? OK, I think we're having some trouble communicating with the admiral. We'll try to reestablish contact on that.
Just in terms of next steps for the U.S., I mean, a lot of it obviously depends on what the mission is. This idea, though, of ground forces securing actual nuclear material, that seems extraordinarily complicated.
HERTLING: Yes, it does. Anderson, I'll introduce you to a term you've probably heard before, troop to task. We talked about this during the Russian campaign inside of Ukraine. How many soldiers does it need to accomplish X number of tasks? If you haven't identified those tasks in a country that's three times as big as the country of Iraq, you know, and there are things all over this country as we've seen with the airstrikes, how many troops is it going to take? What's the military advantage that you get from putting people on the ground? What are they going to be asked to do?
And then after you talk about the fighters who are the supporters of those? Who are the medics that are involved? What kind of security are the special operators going to get from conventional forces? So it continues to build piece upon piece and people that don't know much about military operations will say we'll just throw special operations at it or we'll just ask the Kurds to do it.
They don't really understand the numbers games the so-called battlefield math of all this.
COOPER: Admiral what concerns do you have at this point in in the mission?
[20:45:00]
HARWARD: I think Mark said the same thing. You know, this is a challenge on the ground. I don't say it's insurmountable, but the difference is the people of Iran. We've seen millions go to the streets, so we want to leverage that and support that. Its how we leverage it and how to support it is the real name of the game.
COOPER: And doing that, General, I mean, that is, you know, there's 90 million Iranians. We've seen, you know, a lot of people in the streets. We've seen a lot of them being killed, a lot of them being imprisoned, tortured. We've also seen today a government-sponsored, you know, show of support for the new regime. And 90 million people is a lot to contend with.
HERTLING: Yes, and they're spread out all over a very large country, a couple of size, like I said, size of Iraq and also extra-large Texas, if you're talking about rural environments, urban environments, you've got a lot of people inside Tehran, Isfahan, Qom, some of the other cities, very difficult.
And, you know, when you're also talking about the culture of Iran, it's very complex because there are a lot of minority groups. There are different feelings about the ideology. Some are very supportive of the Shah. Some are very supportive of the Ayatollah. So those are the kind of things that I think are part of the consideration.
Anderson, I was in war plans in the Pentagon in 2003 right before we went into Iraq. We had multiple meetings with all of the agencies within the U.S. government to say what are your roles in all of this beyond the military. The military had a plan. They had a contingency plan. But what were the other agencies USAID, State Department, CIA, all those. What were they doing and how did they contribute to that?
I haven't seen the same kind of one band one sound kind of thing.
COOPER: Yes. A lot of those agencies also I mean USAID and others have been decimated.
HERTLING: Right.
COOPER: Admiral in terms of Strait of Hormuz, what can be done to try to protect shipping in it? I mean, it seems just incredibly vulnerable, obviously, mean, not only to missiles coming from Iran and elsewhere, proxy forces, also, you the idea of even mining the straits.
HARWARD: Well, escorts would be a big start and, you know, our ships are manned with the best counter UAS, you know, against drones and missiles that we've had in use for over 50 years. It's called the close in weapons system, Falcon Phalanx. It's been very effective in protecting our ships. So if you have those sorts of ships escorting the merchants, the oilers, I think that goes a long way, but we've got to the oil flowing.
One other thing back to Mark's comment. I was in Tehran when it fell in '79. And Tehran is the center of gravity. In those days, they had millions of people out on the streets, and that compelled the army to turn.
If we're able to support going after the IRGC and can support those people and flip Tehran, the rest of the country will go the same way. So again, Tehran remains the center of gravity, and you're watching now Israel focus on the IRGC and those nodes inside Tehran. So watch Tehran and you'll see how this thing's going to unfold.
COOPER: So, Admiral, you think Israel now is going after the Revolutionary Guard Corps?
HARWARD: Well, we've seen that. You've seen the strikes. You've seen the people. So -- and that's what we're getting open source. We're seeing that every day. Let's see how this plays out. And I think that's the center of gravity.
If the IRGC can turn or be decimated so the people have that advantage, maybe arm the people, that's how this thing flips and tear on. So yes, I do believe they are targeting the IRGC.
COOPER: Yes.
HERTLING: If I could kind of add on that Anderson. You know, and this is the same problem we saw in Iraq, not to go to that theater, but when you destroy most of the security forces and the people are left and they don't have an army, they don't have police, they don't have EMTs and the kinds of things that help a society stay secure, there's -- there's -- that's a fine rager's edge. How much do you deploy?
COOPER: There was the de-Ba'athification campaign in Iraq --
HERTLING: Right.
COOPER: -- which left a lot of military trained people with access to weapons, unemployed, without access to their former power --
HERTLING: Yes.
COOPER: --funneling the insurgency.
HERTLING: I was in the room with 400 Iraqi generals the day that Admiral or Ambassador Bremer announced de-Ba'athification. You could feel the changing tide in that room --
COOPER: Wow.
HERTLING: -- when they got the same information I was getting. And it was, at that point, becoming an insurgency, which is very tough --
COOPER: wow.
HERTLING: -- to the military forces there.
COOPER: Wow. How do you think this new supreme leader factors into it?
HERTLING: Yes, I don't know. It's an interesting dynamic. The only think I would say and Bob could probably reinforce this. We look in the U.S., we look at personalities as leaders. The Iranians and most of the Middle East look at institutions as leader and they maintain those institutions whether it's a religious institution or a secular institution.
[20:50:03]
So the personalities sometimes don't matter, but I think this is kind of a kick in the face to President Trump that they nominated the son of the former --
COOPER: Admiral, do you the same way?
HARWARD: Without the doubt. And I would add he's a dead man walking. What I mean by that as you've seen and don't forget what happened with the nuclear program there, whenever someone stood up and it said hey, I'm running the nuclear program, he was gone in the few days the same thing we did with the in our counterterrorism. Whenever there was a new leader he became a target. So I think that's the same situation here. He's now a target.
One other thing to note about when I talk about the IRGC, that's separate from the Artish, the standing army.
COOPER: Yes.
HARWARD: So again, targeting the IRGC is different. That's a little different in Iraq. And hopefully that's one of the components that can turn with other, the police stuff other than the Basij, other than the IRGC that can be the background of what the future of Iran will be.
COOPER: Yes. Admiral Harward, I appreciate it. Thanks very much. General Hertling is going to stay with us. Thanks very much. Up next, more on General Hertling's new book, "If I Don't Return: A father's Wartime Journal," whence written for his then young sons now for all of us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:05]
COOPER: Hey, I'm back with retired Army General Mark Hertling. He is the author of a really extraordinary and lovely book called "If I Don't Return: A Father's Wartime Journal." And I want to take a couple minutes just to talk about it, because I really love this book.
And this is something you wrote in notes really for your two sons in case you didn't return. And your son typed it up years later, showed it to you, and you've added kind of additions to it.
HERTLING: Yes, he didn't just type it up and show it to me. He said, you've got to do something with that. I mean, it was one of those things where your kids up, they start forcing you to do stuff.
I knew you would like it, Anderson, with your two boys being about the same age, difference as our two sons.
COOPER: Yes.
HERTLING: But yes, it was a journal that I kept during Desert Storm on a daily basis because we were told 50 percent of our units were going to die. You we were going to be casualties. So I thought, OK, if there's a coin flip chance of me not coming home, what do want my boys to know about being men?
So every day I'd write something.
COOPER: You wanted them to hear your voice, essentially --
HERTLING: Yes.
COOPER: -- on the written page.
HERTLING: Yes. And talk to him about character and values and, you know, a little bit of the war. It's not a war book. In fact, my publisher said, you know, this -- we're portraying this as a war book. It's really a book about leadership and character.
COOPER: Well, I wonder, you wrote to your boys about your perspective you got from your faith. You said, baseball games that are lost, girlfriends that don't like you anymore, even wars in the Middle East don't carry a candle to God's plan. Remember when things seemed tough. I used to call it the Hertling Ice Ball theory. When the Earth is one big ice ball, one million years from now, it won't really matter that Mark Hertling spent an insufferable time away from his blood family in the Arabian desert. What will matter is that someday because we believe we'll spend eternity with God.
That faith really sustained you through an awful lot of tough times.
HERTLING: It did. It did. And it's changed over the years too as I've been in contact with other faiths, know, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs. They've all taught me different things and expanded my view of faith.
So what I was writing about was a Catholic major writing to his boys about the faith because they were going to church with my wife and all those kind of things. But now we've had discussions about faith and the things that occur in life that cause you to do one thing or another and how it all reflects back on what your values are and what your character is.
COOPER: It is the extraordinary thing I think about service in the military and which is that people from all walks of life are together in this thing and as a commander, you really have to come to understand all the -- and -- and enter -- and everybody interacts with all these people from all different walks of life.
HERTLING: Yes.
COOPER: It can be this extraordinary melting pot.
HERTLING: Yes, it's diversity, I think. A word that's getting a lot of slamming lately. But it is a diverse organization that we build into a common set of values, the army values, the navy values, whatever.
What's interesting, you know, Anderson, I don't think I ever told you this, I never left the city of St. Louis and never got on a airplane until I went to West Point to meet you. And now I've been 123 different countries by last count.
And in each one of those, you see the beauty of mankind and womankind all over the place. And I think that's what the professionalism our military represents in terms of understanding where they're going and what they're trying to do.
COOPER: I was so struck by you -- you served also, I mean, you served for a long time. You actually have a box. I think it's on your desk in which you have photos and notes about, I think it's 253 service members --
HERTLING: Yes. Yes.
COOPER: -- who died under your command in Iraq, is that correct?
HERTLING: Yes. General Marty Dempsey was my division commander when I was a one-star, and we would go to the memorial services in Baghdad.
[21:00:00]
We were there in 2003 and 2004. And he had -- it was -- he couldn't quite understand what to say to soldiers after they were memorializing their fellow soldiers who had sacrificed. On the top of the block -- the top of the box, there's a phrase called make it matter. And that was the phrase he used to other soldiers. But in that box or 253 cards --
COOPER: And you still look at them?
HERTLING: Every day.
COOPER: Every day.
HERTLING: Every day. Pick three or four out and think about where would they be today, what kind of family would they have? Would they have kids? Would they be divorced? Would they have a job as a teacher or whatever? And you just say, it's a life that --
COOPER: Make it matter.
HERTLING: Make it matter.
COOPER: The book is "If I Don't Return: A Father's Wartime Journal." General Mark Hertling. Thank you. It's really a wonderful read.
HERTLING: Thanks Anderson.
COOPER: Thank you.
HERTLING: Appreciate it.
COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
