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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Sheriff: Suspect Dead After Ramming Vehicle into Synagogue; U.S. Aerial Tanker Goes Down in Western Iraq; Sources: Trump Admin. Underestimated Iran War's Impact On Strait Of Hormuz; FBI: Synagogue Attack Was "Targeted Act Of Violence Against The Jewish Community"; CENTCOM "Aware" Of Loss Of U.S. Refueling Aircraft In Iraq; Strait Of Hormuz To Remain Closed As "Tool Of Pressure" Says Iran's New Supreme Leader In First Purported Public Message; VA Gunman Identified As A Veteran And Convicted ISIS Supporter; Robert Irwin On His Father Steve Irwin. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired March 12, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Twenty percent at least of the world's oil travel through daily, usually is still essentially closed, and an Iranian Revolutionary Guard official is threatening that oil prices will cross $200.00 a barrel.

Well, thanks so much for watching our special program tonight here live from Tel Aviv in the Middle East.

AC360 starts now.

[20:00:21]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening! Thanks for joining us. Breaking news on three fronts, in our CNN Global War Coverage. Tonight, an Air Force plane goes down in Western Iraq and a pair of attempted mass casualty attacks here at home, one at a Detroit-area synagogue, which law enforcement sources say could be war-related. The other, Virginia's Old Dominion University with clear ties to global terrorism, according to authorities.

Both could have been far worse. That smoke you see pouring out of the Temple Israel Complex in West Bloomfield, Michigan, is from the attacker's burning car, which was apparently filled with explosives.

Authorities say the driver, armed with a rifle, rammed his way well into the building, which houses a preschool and kindergarten before Temple security guards "engaged the killer and neutralized the threat."

Late tonight, multiple law enforcement sources tell us that his vehicle is registered to a man who was originally from Lebanon. They also say they are investigating reports that he told people he had multiple family members who were killed in a recent Israeli airstrike.

Neither item was mentioned at a press conference late today. Officials took no questions and said nothing about the man's motives beyond this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER RUNYAN, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: The FBI is here working with our state, local and federal partners to investigate this incident, and I can confirm that we are leading the investigation right now as a targeted act of violence against the Jewish community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the other attack today is being investigated explicitly as an act of terrorism. It happened at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia. Authorities say the gunman entered an ROTC classroom and opened fire killing one, wounding two others before one of the students was able to stop the shooter and stab him to death.

The shooter was, they say, a former Army National Guard member who spent nearly seven years in prison after pleading guilty of trying to aid ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIQUE EVANS, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: I can tell you that we have confirmed reports that prior to him conducting this act of terrorism, he shouted or stated "Allahu Akbar," and he was formerly a subject of an FBI investigation in material supporting terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, this is happening you'll remember after an attempted bombing here in New York by two men with what police say were ISIS sympathies and of course, the ongoing war with Iran.

CNN's Brian Todd is covering the Old Dominion shooting for us. CNN's Whitney Wild is in Michigan. I want to begin our coverage with CNN's Whitney Wild outside the Temple Israel in West Bloomfield Township.

So what more do we know at this hour?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we are still learning the details. As you mentioned, law enforcement was quite reluctant to expand upon any investigative threads, any evidence they might have, any information they might have about the suspect, but they did say quite a bit of detail about the law enforcement response here.

There were hundreds of law enforcement officers, federal agents who responded, bomb technicians specialty tactical units who And as you pointed out, the video shows very clearly smoke pouring out of that building. About 30 first responders who rushed in, risked their lives to try to subdue this suspect, who we know was neutralized by the security at Temple Israel are being treated for smoke inhalation because the smoke was so thick it spread throughout the building.

But even still, even with those difficult conditions, they were able to very quickly evacuate the building, which has very young children inside. It is both a temple and a preschool.

Now they are continuing to investigate the details here and they say this is a hateful thing. This is a terrible thing. But the exact reason, the specific motivation has to be investigated.

I spoke with Elyssa Schmier who is the Regional Director for the Anti- Defamation League here in Michigan, and she told me that there is a lot of frustration tonight because this is something that they have been screaming about for too long, and it feels to her like not enough people are taking this seriously.

She is very concerned about the ADL tracking much higher levels of antisemitism than they've ever seen. She said there are 9,000 antisemitic incidents across the country, hundreds have been tracked in Michigan.

She is highly concerned about the pervasiveness of social media, spreading antisemitic tropes, spreading the prevalence of that among younger generations, millennials, Gen Z and she said very clearly, we need strong leadership to condemn that, and we need more funding to make sure that temples like Temple Israel and others can have a robust security presence because again, it was the security here that was able to stop that suspect, that is not always the case at other houses of worship throughout the country -- Anderson.

[20:05:10]

COOPER: Yes. Whitney Wild, thank you. I want to go to Brian Todd in Sterling, Virginia, for the latest on the attack at Old Dominion.

He is in the general neighborhood where we believe the shooter lived. So what more are you learning right now about the shooter?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Anderson, we are here in this neighborhood, a fairly upscale townhouse, this kind of courtyard of townhouses here in Sterling, Virginia, learning a little bit more about the suspect and the suspect's family.

This suspect identified as 36-year-old Mohamed Bailor Jalloh, a former Virginia National Guard member who as we've been reporting served nearly seven years in prison after pleading guilty to trying to aid the terror group, ISIS. Officials at the time, saying he was trying to procure weapons for an ISIS attack.

Now, at the specific address where we believe the suspect lived, there is a sign, a paper sign taped to the front door saying, "We do not wish to speak to the press."

I knocked on that door three separate times. Twice a man answered. The first time he just pointed to the sign and said, we really don't want to talk to you, and then closed the door. The second time he answered, he said, I am going to try to be as nice to you as I can about this, but we really don't want to talk to the media. He said, you have to understand, we are going through a very tough time.

I asked him if he was the suspect's father. He did not answer that question. And then a young lady standing behind him said pretty loudly, seriously? And then they shut the door.

Others -- other neighbors that we spoke to here, I spoke to five different neighbors who describe a very large family living at that residence, multiple members of a family of multiple generations. But they say the family really didn't interact with neighbors, and that neighbors really did not interact with them.

One neighbor I spoke to, who said he often would walk by the suspect when he would take his walks in the neighborhood said the first time he passed the suspect, he said hi to the suspect. He said the suspect didn't say anything. He just looked to the ground. He said every single time he would pass him after that, the suspect would just look to the ground and in the words of this neighbor, "something about him just didn't sit well with me."

Another neighbor said Anderson, "I'm surprised that they released him and let him come back here." So neighbors here expressing some shock, some surprise and frustration that he was in the neighborhood.

COOPER: Yes.

TODD: And as we described, CNN have been reporting here tonight, it was a very grisly scene inside that ROTC classroom with other students subduing the suspect. And one of them apparently stabbing him to death.

COOPER: Yes, remarkable that they were able to do that. Brian Todd, thank you.

With me is CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst, John Miller and CNN senior crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz.

Obviously, John Miller a lot of questions about any of this related to the war in Iran?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, its highly suggestive. We knew we were going to be here at the beginning of the war. The FBI Director put out that notice to everybody in the bureau to you know, paying their sources, check their cases, look for any loose ends, because they said in the bulletins that came out from the FBI and the DHS to law enforcement agencies, expect a reaction from this, expect first lone wolf attacks before anything more complicated.

And if you look at what we saw from the Austin, Texas attack to the Gracie Mansion attack over the weekend to the Old Dominion from this morning and the targeting of the synagogue, it appears that those predictions have turned out to be logical and correct.

COOPER: Shimon, what have we learning more about the attacker in Michigan?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So officials yet are not definitively identifying, but certainly from sources that we've been able to learn that, you know, he has some connections to Lebanon and that this may, this is something that's certainly being investigated, there is some information that this may be in retaliation for some family members that were killed from an Israeli strike.

You know, it was really interesting to me, Anderson, when the special agent in charge of the FBI there in Michigan, when she came out and spoke, and she specifically said that the FBI was leading this investigation and that it was a targeted act of violence towards the Jewish community.

Setting it separately in some ways, from it being an act of terrorism, because I guess right now, for them, the leading theory is that this is sort of was a hate crime, that this was being done against this person's belief towards Israel. That sort of what it is appearing to be now.

And so that's certainly the way they are treating this investigation.

COOPER: John, you've talked about this in Michigan as a layered attack, meaning what? Multiple kind of --

MILLER: I mean, he is using three modalities there which is a ramming attack with the vehicle, a shooting -- active shooter attack by it appears he was firing a weapon as he was driving down the hallway of the school after driving through the doorways and an explosive attack because having spoken to people who have reviewed the video, you know, you see the car come crashing through the door you see what appears to be shell casings being ejected through the driver's side window as he is firing.

And then you see the car gets all the way down to the end of the hall and then this fire starts.

[20:10:12]

So, it is suggestive that it was a ramming attack for anybody who was in the hallway, which happened to be clear at the time, a shooting attack for anybody who was an available target, which were the security people who shot back, and this explosive attack where it appears at least he was able to initiate, ignite, detonate some connection to these explosives that were in the back of the vehicle, which if they didn't explode, they certainly caused that conflagration that caused that fire, that blackened the hallway, filled the building with smoke, and right now, as we are sitting here, two things are going on.

One, FBI ATF, and the Oakland County bomb investigators are trying to figure out is anything in the back of that car something that is still live or explosive that needs to be dealt with? And structural engineers are coming in to see, is the structure strong enough so that they can move that car out of there and process it somewhere else?

COOPER: And it is incredible that we are talking yet again about homemade explosive devices. You know, we had the incident here in New York. And Shimon, I am sure if not for the security at this synagogue I mean, there is no telling what would have happened. PROKUPECZ: There is no telling what would happen, especially because

this suspect is firing out of, as John is saying. I mean, now we know that he is firing out of the car. But again, like what we are looking at here is there is some luck here too, right? Like what we saw here in New York when those bombs didn't go off. And if it wasn't for the way they were constructed, you know, with what has been described to me as cheap fuses, we may be looking at a very different situation and we may be looking at a very different situation here in Michigan.

But the fact is, this person got inside and was able to get through those doors and go down that hallway and get in the far with children inside the school, and had those, whatever was in there, had that gone off, I don't know that security would have -- we don't know yet fully. I guess --

MILLER: Think about the turnaround time as well, you know taking Shimon's point that, you know, he had told people that there had been family members struck, we are told two brothers and a number of nephews in Lebanon. Now these are Israeli strikes trying to clear out Hezbollah areas where people were told to evacuate. This is not to suggest that his relatives had anything to do with Hezbollah. A lot of people don't have places to evacuate to, but that was March 6th, when that announcement came out from the mosque that these people had been killed from his family.

The family of the registered owner of that car, who they believe is the suspect, between March 6th and today is not a lot of time to put together the pre-operational surveillance. What door I think I can ram through? What are the times to hit the school?

COOPER: Is there an indication he could have been in there even before that?

MILLER: Commercial fireworks and I am saying that Shimon's point that it could have been worse is had he had more time to work it, it probably would have.

COOPER: So on the Old Dominion attack, I mean this was a person who had already been arrested, who had already been incarcerated. It is amazing they were able -- I mean, maybe not amazing, but they were able to get access to weaponry.

MILLER: It is and this would have been a prohibited buyer, a federal conviction for a federal felony who spent more than or spent less than a decade in jail who got out early, still want to know why, was that just time off for good behavior or some other reason?

But he certainly wouldn't have been able to buy it. On the other hand, you know, it is Virginia. There are a lot of people with guns. There are private sales, there are ways, but its somebody that law enforcement certainly should have and may have kept tabs on after his release from prison.

PROKUPECZ: I think it is going to be interesting for the FBI now and certainly for the Joint Terrorism Task Force, they need to go back now and look and see where sort of where do they flip the switch here? When does this go from this idea of doing something to like, okay were ready to go, I am going to go do it.

And I still think the thing that happened here in New York is still so worrisome for law enforcement, because one of the things is you have two people there who got together to do this. You know, in these other incidents, we are talking about one person here in Michigan and the Old Dominion.

Now, when you start going where okay, well, I could get someone to do this with me, it changes the dynamic and I think that's certainly very concerning.

COOPER: Shimon Prokupecz, John Miller, thank you very much.

Next, I will speak to a rabbi from the Temple Israel, who was there today when the attacker slammed his vehicle into the synagogue.

Later, the war, all we are learning about the loss of an American aerial refueling tanker like this one in Western Iraq not shot down according to authorities. More ahead on our CNN Global War coverage as it continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:19.12]

COOPER: We are talking about the attack on a Michigan synagogue that the FBI is calling a "targeted act of violence against the Jewish Community."

It happened at Temple Israel outside Detroit, and it could have been so much worse given that the would-be killer managed to drive a vehicle reportedly filled with explosives deep into a building with a preschool and kindergarten inside.

We're joined by Rabbi Arianna Gordon, who's director of education at Temple Israel and Rabbi Jen Lader. I appreciate both of you being with us, and I'm so sorry. As I said, it's under these circumstances. Rabbi Gordon, I understand you were the only rabbi inside the synagogue during the attack. What did you see? When did you realize something terrible was happening?

ARIANNA GORDON, RABBI AND DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION AT TEMPLE ISRAEL: Yes, thank you. We knew almost immediately that something was going on. We heard lots of loud noises and quickly everyone was instructed to shelter in place to lock down and everyone responded very quickly to that instruction.

We did hear the sound of shooting. We smelled smoke, but really, we just want to express our deep, deep gratitude and appreciation for local law enforcement, our Temple Israel security team, and our early childhood center teachers who were unbelievable today in the way that they took care of our children and our staff and made it so that everyone stayed calm and got out safely, reuniting with their parents this afternoon.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, the security people made all the difference here, and it's awful that it comes to that how did the -- I mean, what do you do? I think there were about hundred kids there today. How did they go about comforting, you know, you talked about them comforting the kids while this was happening? It must have been terrifying for the kids.

GORDON: So, it was certainly terrifying for the teachers. I think the students didn't really have a great understanding of what was going on. They were being snuggled by their teachers and they were singing songs and they were being kept calm and distracted throughout the entire afternoon.

COOPER: And Rabbi Lader, I understand you immediately went to the temple when you heard about the attack. You helped reunifying the kids and the parents across the street. Is that right?

JEN LADER, RABBI AT TEMPLE ISRAEL: Yes, we got as close as we could it seemed like every law enforcement official in the entire state was near our synagogue so another colleague and I parked at a synagogue all the way down the street and ran across the street to a Chaldean Community Center that was kind enough to host us as we gathered kids and served as a home base for parents looking for their children.

COOPER: Rabbi Gordon, how concerned have you been about security, especially? I mean obviously there's a, you know, a rise in antisemitism that we, you know are seeing online, you know in the real world, in this country, around the world, but especially since the war in Iran started, how concerned have you been about security? Has there been any extra kind of training or anything?

GORDON: So, as a Jewish Institution, were always concerned about security. We always worry that we are a target and at Temple Israel, over the last number of years, we have had increased security. We've done trainings over the last number of years. In particular, we did one just last month because we are aware that we have the potential to be a target, and we want to make sure we are as well prepared as we possibly can be. I don't think anyone was necessarily more concerned in the last week or two than we have been for the last number of years, and all of our security for that length of time has really reflected that we are fully aware of what the world looks like today for the Jewish Community.

LADER: And I just want to add that we have the best security team in the entire universe. These are unbelievably courageous, brave men who put themselves in the line of fire to protect our staff and our children. And they are they are absolute heroes and we are indebted to them, and are overwhelmed with gratitude that they were able to do this for us.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, they showed that bravery today. Rabbi Lader, Rabbi Gordon, thank you so much.

LADER: Thank you.

GORDON: Thanks for having U.S.

COOPER: Coming up next, the war and the loss of an American aerial tanker with at least five crew members on board will be joined by CNN's Adam Kinzinger, who used to fly this type of plane.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:27:45]

COOPER: There is breaking news in the war tonight. An American KC-135 Stratotanker like this one has gone down in Western Iraq according to Central Command, which says the aerial refueling plane was not hit by hostile or friendly fire. Second aircraft, which was also involved in the incident landed safely.

The tanker had at least five crew members on board. No word yet on their fate, and it caps a day of other significant developments in the war, with repercussions at home.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

COOPER: That's an oil tanker burning, exploding in the Persian Gulf overnight. Today, Iran's Revolutionary Guard threatened to set the regions oil and gas infrastructure on fire if Iranian energy targets are hit. Clearly, though, they already are. Also, today in what is purported to be his first message as Iran's new Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Mojtaba Khamenei said the Strait of Hormuz would remain closed as a "tool of pressure" on the West.

Now with that as a backdrop here's new CNN reporting tonight that the Trump administration significantly underestimated the regime's willingness to apply this kind of pressure. According to multiple sources familiar with the matter, the President's National Security team failed to fully account for the potential consequences of what some officials have described as a worst-case scenario now facing the administration.

A scenario now reflected in the price of oil which ended today above the $100.00 barrel mark for the first time since 2022.

Joining us with more new reporting on this is CNN chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source", Kaitlan Collins. So, what more have you and CNN White House team learned about what the administration had planned for, particularly in the Strait of Hormuz?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": Yes, Anderson, we've been talking to sources all day about this because this has become a daily, if not hourly conversation within the administration about how to fix exactly what we're watching play out right now, not just these tankers being on fire, but also watching the numbers only skyrocket here at the pump at home.

And basically what we've learned is that going into this and as they were planning to launch Operation Epic Fury, they basically seriously underestimated Iran's ability or willingness to shut down the Strait of Hormuz in light of U.S. attacks on Iran. And whether that was because they believed the regime would be too weak and would have fallen by this point, given the amount of serious U.S. firepower in the region, or they just thought it wouldn't be as coordinated as it was. That is part of what we've heard about why the administrations

calculus was off in terms of what could happen with the Strait of Hormuz.

I think part of that may also come from when they launched those attacks on Iran's nuclear sites last summer. This was not the kind of result that we saw coming out of it in terms of how Iran responded. But now obviously, Iran has their back against the wall and is doing whatever they can to punish the United States and make it as painful as possible.

[20:30:35]

And so what we've heard from sources, though, Anderson, is this isn't likely to let up anytime soon, because when we've talked to officials about what this looks like inside the administration, their plans to alleviate the very scenes that we're seeing play out, it's not exactly something that's going to happen overnight.

I mean, one idea that the administration has been pushing is the United States Navy escorting tankers through the Strait of Hormuz, given how dangerous it is right now and that really only Iran is getting through at the moment. And the White House keeps saying when and if necessary.

I mean, it is certainly necessary right now because these tankers are unwilling or unable completely to go through the Strait of Hormuz right now. And the United States Navy is also not escorting them through at this point. We've heard from officials it'll be days at least, if not weeks, before that could actually happen, given it's still dangerous for the U.S. Navy to go through the Strait of Hormuz without coming under attack by Iran.

And so I think all of that is playing out right now. It is becoming a huge issue inside the White House, and it has raised a lot of concerns for people. And I think the messaging also is confusing, Anderson, even in terms of what they're doing behind the scenes.

The President was posting today, who just bragged at his State of the Union last month about the price of gas and how low it was here in the U.S., about how high the oil prices are, basically suggesting that it's a positive thing because it makes a lot of money when oil is priced higher. I mean, it certainly does for wealthy oil investors, Anderson, but for regular people who are filling their cars up with gas, I do not believe they view this as a positive.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, thanks so much. We'll see you at the top of the hour for The Source at 9:00.

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman, a member of the Homeland Security and Judiciary Committees. A lot to talk to you about, but first, just on the war. I mean, do you think the White House planned for this, you know, thought this out in terms of oil prices that Iran would have a vote and how they reacted to this bombing? REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D), HOMELAND SECURITY & JUDICIARY COMMITTEES: Obviously not. I mean, and we're seeing it now with the bad intelligence about the school that the U.S. military blew up and killed 175, mostly children. Now, we're seeing that they didn't anticipate that Iran would actually retaliate. Is that really what they're saying right now?

And this is why it's not an academic discussion about following the Constitution and going to Congress, because if you do go to Congress, you need to present a plan. You need to present a strategy. You need to present a day after plan. You need to present an objective.

They don't even have an objective here. It's unclear entirely. I don't think they know what they're trying to do. That is why you do not send American troops, the American military, into a war that you are unprepared for and that you do not have any idea how the enemy is going to react.

And so we're seeing Americans dying, injured. We're seeing Iranian children killed. And now we're seeing a massive economic stress of the Strait of Hormuz being closed. It's not just oil. There's so much that goes through there that's going to crush the economy in many other ways.

COOPER: The idea -- you know, the President seems to look at Venezuela, the U.S. military action there, as some sort of a model for what -- how the government in Iran would be replaced, that they would find a Delcy Rodriguez in Iran. It doesn't seem to take into account any kind of understanding of the Iranian regime itself.

GOLDMAN: None. None. And it's -- if you pay attention to the Iranian regime at all, you know that this is not a malleable regime. This is not just someone on the top who's trying to gain power and --

COOPER: It's not just a kleptocrat. I mean, there's widespread corruption of the Revolutionary Guard and businesses and stuff, but it's not some thug in Venezuela.

GOLDMAN: This is ideological purity. The regime hates America. It says death to America. Repeatedly, the Ayatollah has threatened America. This is not some, you know, country like Venezuela that's totally disorganized, is really the best word. This is a 90 million person country with a massive military that controls so much, that just executed 30,000 of its own citizens.

[20:35:05]

And the ineptitude and the unpreparedness that is evident now that we're seeing is exactly why you don't rush into war to avoid talking about the Epstein files. And that is so clearly what is driving this.

COOPER: We saw the attack here in New York, at least two IEDs thrown. It could have been a huge mass casualty event. We've now seen the synagogue attack. We've seen the Old Dominion. Do you worry that this is -- I mean, don't have evidence -- it's all directly related to the war, but it's certainly of a piece. Do you have concern there's going to be more of that?

GOLDMAN: Well, I just have concern that there's so much of it going on. I have no idea whether it's connected to the war or not, but it does seem like it may be linked in some fashion and that for some reason that all of a sudden there are multiple attacks that seem to be, you know, similar in nature in some fashion.

And what I worry about is with the administration distracted in Iran and Venezuela, with this immigration dragnet that is going on all around the country, you have a lot of criminal law enforcement agents, including some counterterrorism, counterintelligence agents, who are being deployed to ICE for the immigration dragnet.

They may have previously detected these things and they didn't hear now how much more of this is happening. And this is why it is so important to fund the nonprofit security grant program that will protect all sorts of nonprofits, including synagogues, with federal money because otherwise you see what happens today --

COOPER: Yes.

GOLDMAN: -- and it's going to -- it's potentially going to get a lot worse. We're lucky that no one died.

COOPER: Yes, lucky that synagogue had security that they were paying for.

Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you so much for your time. Dan Goldman.

GOLDMAN: Thank you.

COOPER: Up next, someone who's flown the kind of aerial refueling planes that went down today and knows how intricate and sometimes risky their missions can be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:41:23]

COOPER: There is no word yet on what has happened to the at least five crew members who were aboard an Air Force refueling plane like this one that went down today in western Iraq. CNN Political Commentator Adam Kinzinger piloted these exact planes in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The former congressman joins us now.

So, Congressman, you flew this type of plane for two years, including during combat. It obviously a critically important aircraft in the fleet of the Air Force. What's your reaction to the news that one has gone down? According to CENTCOM, it was not due to hostile fire or friendly fire.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, it's terrible news, obviously. You know, you're always wondering if you know the crews, but it's been a while since I've flown it. But, you know, what the tanker flies, it's inherently safe, but it does do some dangerous things. You know, obviously, air refueling. Two planes are getting very close to each other. And then sometimes these planes fly formation. And especially at nighttime, I don't know if this happened at night, but nighttime formation, when you have your transponders off and you're using what's called an air-to-air tack in, that's stuff that can get dangerous.

And, you know, this is the first tanker to have crashed. One went down in Afghanistan maybe 10 years ago. But obviously our thoughts and prayers are with the crew and the families. Unfortunately, the Air Force took parachutes off of these things about 10 or 15 years ago to try to save a little bit of weight for gas. And I don't know if this is a situation where those could have come in handy, but I think it's sad that they took them off, unfortunately.

COOPER: Are there -- I mean, what kind of emergency procedures would there be aboard this type of an aircraft?

KINZINGER: So there's emergency procedures for everything, except if you end up colliding with another plane, because you never know what that's going to look like, how it's going to happen. Basically, if you have a collision, the whole thing is try to get the plane safely landed as quickly and safely as you can.

There is a procedure called a breakaway, which is when you're actually refueling another aircraft in which the tanker puts the throttles full forward and climbs while the receiving aircraft drops, that -- I've had a few close calls on that one, but there are procedures. But if this was like an air-to-air flying in formation, they accidentally hit each other, at that point, it's just do everything you can as a crew to get it on the ground. And it sounds like the other aircraft was able, thankfully, to safely land.

COOPER: Yes. Well, we hope for the best for all service members involved, and we'll obviously bring you any news on that as we hear.

Congressman, appreciate it.

Iran's supreme leader is, in his first reported public message to the world today, we didn't see him, showed no signs of relenting, warning that the Strait of Hormuz will remain closed, quote, "as a tool of pressure." Joining me here at the map table is Senior Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk. He's served in senior national security posts under the last four presidents, including President Trump's first term.

Also Retired Rear Admiral John Kirby, who's previously served as a spokesperson for the Pentagon, State Department, and National Security Council. And Senior Global Affairs Analyst Karim Sadjadpour, who is a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

A lot of knowledge at the table, except for me, so I appreciate you all being here. Admiral Kirby, we're looking at the Strait of Hormuz. How has Iran been so effective in shutting this down?

JOHN KIRBY, RETIRED UNITED STATES NAVY REAR ADMIRAL: Well, number one is fear. You don't even have to fire a single shot to just instill fear in shippers in terms of going through here. I mean, this is a very narrow strait here.

COOPER: And this is all Iranian territory?

KIRBY: This is.

COOPER: Right.

KIRBY: Over here, all Iran. This is Oman and UAE. But right here at the narrowest point, Anderson, it's only 20 miles.

[20:45:01]

And there's a 6-mile traffic separation scheme that runs right along that northern edge right there. That's six miles to get in and out.

COOPER: Traffic separation scheme?

KIRBY: So you have -- it's like, think of it like a highway. You've got two lanes going in, you've got two lanes coming out and there's --

COOPER: So there's actually -- I mean, are they -- there's like buoys? No?

KIRBY: No, it's just on a chart.

COOPER: Right.

KIRBY: You know where you are in GPS.

COOPER: OK.

KIRBY: But it's a 6-mile separation scheme so that incoming ships don't collide without going ships. But it's right here. So, you know, you want to skirt as far away from Iran as possible.

COOPER: But in terms of closeness to the shore of Iran, I mean, you're within sight, no?

KIRBY: Absolutely. No question about it. Again, even if you're in the scheme, you're, what, 10, 15 miles away from Iran. So they don't have to fire anything. Just the fear of the capabilities has already shut down the strait. Now they're actually firing into it.

The biggest concern right now are the drones, not the mines. I mean, you've seen CENTCOM take shots at the mine-laying ships. They can't drop mines from the air like a lot of other modern navies. That's not the big concern. It's the drones. The drones can fly a long, long distance, low speed, and they're hard to detect.

COOPER: Is it also -- I mean, I would imagine, Brett, it's also vulnerable to, I mean, smaller rockets. You don't need, you know, long-range rockets if you're firing close to the shore.

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's a wicked problem, Anderson. You go back to the -- Carter had a doctrine that any effort from a power to take control of this area will be a -- it's a vital interest in the United States repelled by military force. This goes way back.

The new supreme leader today said, we're doing it. We're closing it. And this is a huge issue that we've been talking about for the last week. You know, all these energy products, it's oil, it's liquid natural gas from UAE, from Qatar, from Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and then Iraq, all comes through here. And most of it, though, goes to Asia. About 80 percent, 85 percent goes to Asia.

And what you started to see today -- I'm seeing two ways possibly to resolve this. One is diplomatically. The Indians are calling the Iranians, saying, hey, let our car go through. We know the Chinese are doing that. We're Iran to allow that to happen. That at least reduces some of the pressure.

So there's a diplomatic effort going on. 140 countries at the U.N. yesterday, Anderson, condemned what Iran is doing here. So diplomatically, let's see where that goes. I don't put too much stock in it, but there's an effort going on.

And then there's the military coalition that Admiral Kirby knows an awful lot about in the Red Sea, which is over on that side of the table. We built a coalition when an Iranian proxy group shut down another passageway called the Bab el-Mandeb, about 10 percent of global trade, with about 20 countries.

And we had the U.K., we had Denmark. They're actually shooting missiles. They have very good destroyers. Yes, right here, the Bab el- Mandeb.

So these two passageways are so critical for global commerce, and this has been something the United States does around the world. We help protect the passageways of the global commons. But it's hard. It took months to put that together.

And I would just say this is why allies are so important. The U.K. is critical. Denmark is a critical ally when it comes to something like this. And, of course, a month ago, we were talking about Denmark in the context of Greenland.

I would hope this is an international problem. It should be internationalized. We should start putting that coalition together.

COOPER: Karim, it's interesting because, I mean, Iran, they obviously need this trade also. I mean, they have oil they need for their own economy. But their willingness to cut it down, I mean, are they willing to sustain the pain, the economic pain of that more than the U.S. is willing to?

KARIM SADJADPOUR, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: At the moment, Anderson, this is a population, it's a regime fighting for its life. And the advantage that dictatorships oftentimes have when they're fighting against democracies is that they have contempt for public opinion. They don't care that their poll numbers are way down.

And, in fact, a lot of what Iran is doing right now is trying to impact U.S. public opinion. They pay very close attention to the fact that only one in four Americans is seemingly supporting President Trump's war, and that's why they continue to try to spike the price of oil, create explosions throughout the Persian Gulf, and hoping Americans are going to restrain President Trump's ambitions.

COOPER: The President, Admiral Kirby, has talked about how the U.S. has decimated the Iranian Navy. 80 percent to 90 percent he's been saying. There's also a whole bunch of small little boats that can also lay mines, that can also attack ships.

KIRBY: That's right. You have two navies. You have the Iranian State Navy. They've got about a dozen major surface combatants, three submarines. And then you have the IRGC Navy, which is a lot of small boats, and some small subs, but mostly small boats.

So there's two navies here, and Central Command and the U.S. Navy have done a great job going after the bulk of the Iranian Navy and the IRGC boats, but they haven't got it all. And what you're starting to see in the strikes in the last, you know, 48 hours or so is a much more keen focus on Iran's naval capabilities. I think you're going to see that for the next few days as well. They're not quite done yet.

COOPER: And can you get escorts through the strait? I mean, is that enough, or is it still -- I mean, even if military -- if other U.S. boats or other boats are protecting ships as they go through, does that work?

[20:50:04]

KIRBY: Yes, it can. It's not foolproof. I mean, a drone can still probably get through on occasion, and it only takes one hit on one tanker somewhere in here to shut it down again. But convoying, nobody does it better than the U.S. Navy.

To Brett's point, you do need allies and partners to help because it's labor-intensive, it's resource-intensive, and, frankly, it's time- intensive. I mean, if we start a convoy mission -- again, we've done this before, did it in the 80s under President Reagan, but it takes a long, long time, and it's not cost-free, it's not danger-free.

MCGURK: And what's so different about the 80s are these drones, because they can range --

KIRBY: That's right.

MCGURK: -- to 1,500 kilometers. It's a cat-and-mouse game, so they could be fired from, you know, these mountains, and they --

KIRBY: That's right.

MCGURK: -- can range and be accurate, and some of the missiles. Very different.

KIRBY: When we did it, the biggest concern were the mines and then Bandar Abbas, which is an Iranian naval base right around here, and they had cruise missiles sort of pocketed around right off the strait, that was the big concern. But to Brett's point, they don't need to be here to threaten ships. They can be thousands of miles away.

COOPER: And, Karim, the new supreme leader allegedly made a statement today. We didn't see him make it, but he's supposed to be maybe wounded. We don't know the extent of that. What are your thoughts on his hold on power and what happens next, and also just the Revolutionary Guard? Have we seen the full force of the Revolutionary Guard in this war?

SADJADPOUR: Well, I think Mojtaba Khamenei at the moment is very much controlled by the Revolutionary Guards. You know, his father left an enormous vacuum behind, and he's a very inexperienced guy, Mojtaba Khamenei. The Iranian public has never really heard him speak before, and someone who's known him for a long time says he's not a good speaker, he's inexperienced.

So you picture his predicament. He's injured, he has an Israeli bullseye on his back, he's probably underground somewhere, poor speaker, and he's inheriting a country at war against America and Israel and much of his own population.

COOPER: It's interesting, though, he is not the greatest Islamic scholar in the country. I mean that, supposedly, that is what the supreme leader is supposed to be, and I heard that even his father, when he got the job, he was not considered the greatest scholar either. Is that right?

SADJADPOUR: Indeed, that's right. So in 1979, Ayatollah Khamenei led a revolution which deposed a hereditary monarchy, and they said that hereditary monarchy is un-Islamic. And so what happened is that over the last five decades, this regime has essentially transformed from a clerical dictatorship into more of a military dictatorship.

And the Ayatollah is at the top of that pyramid as the symbol of power, but really this is a revolutionary God-controlled government. But the original principles of the revolution have not evolved. Resistance against America, resistance against Israel.

And if you listen to Mojtaba's speech today, no new ideas. It was about martyrdom, revenge, and resistance, something that has gotten Iran into the mess that it's in.

MCGURK: And it's hard to know, Anderson, what's really going on inside this power structure. Looking from the outside, even with all the intelligence information I'm sure we have, it's really hard to know. I was struck about two hours ago, Iran's ambassador here in New York, Ambassador Iravani, I've actually dealt with him face-to-face from time to time, he gave an interview and said, we are not going to close the Strait of Hormuz just after his new supreme leader said that's exactly what they're doing.

So that's probably right-hand not talking to the left-hand, but there's probably some real discord going on in Tehran, and we'll have to see. We still haven't seen this new supreme leader.

COOPER: Yes.

MCGURK: It's the written statement.

COOPER: So much -- so many moving parts. I appreciate all you guys doing this. Thank you so much.

MCGURK: Thank you.

COOPER: Really fascinating. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:53]

COOPER: We've just gotten a photo of the Old Dominion shooter. Here it is. Mohamed Bailor Jalloh is his name. 36 years old. He was killed, stabbed to death by an ROTC student. And after he shot and killed one victim and wounded two others, police want any information about him. That's why we're showing you his picture and telling you his name.

A new episode of my podcast, All There Is, is out tonight. And in 15 minutes, my new live streaming show starts, it's called All There Is Live. And it's only on CNN.com/AllThereIs.

My guest this week on the podcast is Robert Irwin. He was just two years old when his dad, Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin, died. Robert is 22 and he won Dancing with the Stars last year. And he's carrying on his dad's legacy as a conservationist.

He speaks bravely and openly about his grief. Here's some of what you'll hear in that podcast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Is there something you've learned in your grief that would be helpful for others?

ROBERT IRWIN, SON OF STEVE IRWIN: I think the strength in vulnerability is so important. And that's like this epiphany that I've had in the last kind of six months. My whole life, I kept my dad alive in my life, thanks to my family.

I had this footage. I had -- I talked about him a lot. I felt like I'm doing all right. But last year, I sort of addressed the fact of like, am I doing all right or am I just convincing myself so hard that I'm doing all right? Is that what's happening?

And I didn't realize until I really drilled down into it. I'd never really let myself fully sit in it. And I think we don't always have someone to lean on in grief. We don't -- sometimes we have to be that person, you know? And I think the most important thing is to really have kindness in yourself, to first and foremost, realize your grief journey is completely incomparable.

You cannot compare it to anybody else. As long as it's not harming yourself or anyone around you, that is the right grief journey. And allow yourself to sit in it. Allow yourself to be there and fully and 100 percent embrace it. Sometimes you don't even know yourself what you need. But to sit in it, to acknowledge it, to let in the people around you that want to help, but to realize that this is an individual journey that only you can take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, join me in 15 minutes at CNN.com/AllThereIs. My new streaming show about loss. I hope it makes you feel a little less alone in your grief. That's 9:15 p.m. Eastern, only at CNN.com/AllThereIs.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.