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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Sources: U.S. Fighter Jet Shot Down Over Iran One Of Two Crew Members Rescued, Search Ongoing; The View from Space; Sources: U.S. Fighter Jet Shot Down Over Iran; Lebanon's Health Ministry: At Least 1,345 People Killed By Israel Bombardment; International Rescue Committee CEO Warns Of Worsening Humanitarian Crisis In Middle East Amid Iran War; Pope Leo Carries Wooden Cross During Candle-Lit Procession; NASA Releases Images Of Earth Taken By Astronauts; 50 Years Of Apple. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 03, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: But again, it occurred several days after CNN's reporting. Multiple Democratic lawmakers at that hearing saying that Phillips past comments made him unfit to lead the office of response and recovery, which sources have told us is one of the most consequential roles at the agency, pointing not only to his claims about teleportation but his past violent rhetoric about former President Biden and inflammatory comments about migrants -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Andrew Kaczynski, thank you. Thank you for joining us. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:37]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Iran shoots down one Air Force jet, hits and damages another U.S. plane and reportedly hits an American rescue chopper as well. An American airman is missing and being searched for by both sides. The enemy is offering a bounty, all of it taking the fight with Iran to a much darker place tonight.

John Berman here in for Anderson. Topping our CNN Global War coverage, this new video from inside Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(A video of Southwestern Iran, the same area where an American F-15E Strike Eagle was shot down.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, that location is Southwestern Iran, the same area where an American F-15E Strike Eagle was shot down in one of two crew members rescued. The people you're hearing there are Iranian police officers. That's according to the person filming them. Their small arms fire directed at passing helicopters, which appear to be a variant of the U.S. made, UH-60 Blackhawk, which both the U.S. and Israel fly.

Now, according to "The New York Times," Iranian ground fire hit a Blackhawk during rescue operations today. The chopper did make it back to safety. Now, it's unclear whether it was the one from that video. There is debris said to be from the F-15, the first American warplane taken down by enemy fire since the fighting began. The images are from Iranian media, and so is this one here, showing what's left of one of the plane's two ejection seats.

The Strike Eagle is a variant of the F-15 Fighter modified for ground attack roles. It's flown with a pilot up front in a weapons system, operator in the back seat. And again, one of those two, we don't know which has been rescued and is receiving medical treatment. A search is underway for the second, as we said, by both sides. This footage shows a low flying four engine C-130 apparently taking part in and around a valley in Southwestern Iran.

It is a race to find that missing airman. We have video again from Iranian media of people nearby, apparently searching along a ridge, apparently well motivated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IRANIAN NEWS REPORTER (through translator):Please pay attention dear viewers. Please pay attention, if you capture and hand over a pilot or pilots of the enemy alive to the law enforcement and military forces, you will receive a valuable reward and prize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Chilling the President speaking with Britain's the independent, was asked what he would do if the pilot is captured or harmed. He replied shortly before ending the call, "Well, I can't comment on it because we hope that's not going to happen."

Separately, Iranian air defenses also managed to hit an Air Force A-10 ground-attack aircraft. The pilot of that plane managed to nurse it out of hostile airspace before ejecting safely.

So, two jets destroyed and reportedly one chopper hit as well, all of it coming less than 24 hours after CNN exclusive reported that recent U.S. intelligence assessments indicate that roughly half of Iran's missile launchers remain intact and thousands of attack drones remain in the country's arsenal. And as you may remember, just two days ago, President Trump said this about Iran's capacity to wage war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Their ability to launch missiles and drones is dramatically curtailed, and their weapons, factories and rocket launchers are being blown to pieces. They have no anti-aircraft equipment. Their radar is 100 percent annihilated

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: In addition to his remarks on the missing airmen, the President also weighed in online, quoting him now, "With a little more time, we can easily open the Hormuz Strait, take the oil, and make a fortune. It would be a gusher for the world??? "

And several hours later, a shorter post, "KEEP THE OIL ANYONE?"

We being tonight with Chief Whitehouse correspondent, anchor of "The Source," Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, what are you hearing from inside the White House about the missing airman. What's the President been saying about this?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": Well, we know the President spent the day basically in the Oval Office and the dining room next to it, where he often spends a lot of time working out, watching cable news on the phone. And his whole National Security team was at the White House today, seen going in and out. He was meeting with them and being briefed and updated on what the latest is for these search and rescue efforts.

But I think it's notable how quiet the White House has been. And there's been very little posturing from officials as they themselves were trying to figure out what was going on here and what the details of this are.

And obviously, the biggest concern is that if this pilot who is still missing this crew member is captured by Iranian forces, it will fundamentally change this war and how this has been progressing, whether that's militarily or diplomatically, even.

Because one thing that I've been thinking about is what the White House has been saying about Iran's ability and how degraded it is. And Secretary Hegseth was just touting the other day that those B-52s are also flying over Iranian airspace, which says something because they're so big and easily shot down by anti-aircraft missiles, more so than something that's more stealth.

[20:05:43]

And so, we haven't heard any of that today from the administration. Obviously, as we've been watching this very closely to see what the status of this is and how it changes the viewpoint of this war and what that looks like, given the President the other night was just saying he was going to blast Iran back into the Stone Ages if they don't make a deal.

BERMAN: Is it your sense that the relative silence is based on the relative uncertainty? Are there any plans to say more, maybe over this holiday weekend?

COLLINS: Well, it's a rare weekend where the President is not traveling, so he's not actually in front of reporters that much. Typically, he'd be going to get on Marine One or on Air Force One. We're not seeing that this weekend because he's staying back in Washington.

I did think it was notable that he did not come out and say anything publicly about this. He's only made two brief comments in phone interviews. Those aren't on camera; they're not audio recorded. And obviously this is a President who knows how to speak in front of a camera and can find one when he wants to.

So, I do think it said something that he has not personally addressed this in that way on his platform publicly, as everyone is hoping, obviously, for the best news here that this pilot has found.

BERMAN: May reflect the delicateness of the situation, Katelan Collins, thank you for being with us tonight. We'll, see you in a little bit on "The Source".

We're going to be speaking to former Trump National Security Advisor, John Bolton, among others.

Let's go now to CNNs Matthew Chance, who is across the Persian Gulf from Iran in DOHA, in Qatar. Matthew, what is the latest you're hearing on the search for the missing crew member? And we know the Iranian regime is asking for civilians to help find this person.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN, CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well that search, as far as were aware, John, is still underway. Search and rescue teams trying to scour the area to find that second crew member from the F-15 that was brought down over Southwestern in Iran earlier today. And it all puts into context, doesn't it? The remarks we've just heard about from President Trump, about how the U.S. military can operate freely in the skies over Iran.

It's something that Iranian officials have been mocking President Trump about over the course of the past few hours, the powerful leader of the Iranian President of the Iranian parliament rather, has been tweeting on social media on X, basically saying this, "After saying this, after defeating Iran 37 times in a row, this brilliant, no strategy war they started has now been downgraded from regime change to hey, can anyone find our pilot?" So, a very sarcastic tweet, Ghalibaf, the Parliamentary Speaker basically saying, you know, basically ridiculing and, and making a very sarcastic tweet towards the U.S. and the President because of what has taken place today.

So yeah, the situation is still very unclear. Waiting to hear what news there is of the second crew member -- John.

BERMAN: Yes, I mean, certainly unambiguous statement from Iranian officials there. And Kaitlan was getting to this. How do you think this maybe changes the context of this war if Iran is proving it can still shoot down a U.S. Fighter jet, actually, multiple jets today?

CHANCE: Well, look, there's, in the region, in the Gulf Arab States from where I'm talking to you right now, there's always been a lot of concern about the capabilities that that Iran has maintained, despite the fact it's been hit hard, um by the U.S. and Israeli airstrikes over the course of the last four or five weeks.

It has still retained the ability, for instance, to lash out at these gulf states, striking energy infrastructure targets civilian targets with drones and missiles. And this is just another illustration that its military capabilities, Iran's military capabilities are not as degraded as the United States administration has tried to make out. It still poses a very real dangerous threat -- John. BERMAN: They do have some capabilities, clearly. Matthew Chance in

Qatar, thank you so much.

With us now, two veteran aviators, both of whom served in overseas war zones, retired Lieutenant Colonel Amy McGrath was the first woman in the history of the Marine Corps to fly a combat mission in an FA-18. And we should note, she's also running as a Democrat for Senate in Kentucky.

Also, with us is former Air National Guard fighter pilot Major Heather "Lucky" Penney, who from the cockpit of her F-16 helped protect the skies over Washington on September 11th, 2001. Thank you both for everything you've done, and thank you both for being here tonight.

And Colonel McGrath, let me just start with you. The search and rescue mission are underway right now to locate the second crew member. How difficult is it to find someone after their plane has been shot down, especially in terrain like this.

[20:10:20]

LIEUTENANT COLONEL AMY MCGRATH (RET), U.S. MARINE CORPS: Well, we found the first one pretty quick, so that's good. We have the best combat search and rescue capability on the planet, and that's amazing for our country and for our military. But, it's not perfect. And obviously we're deep in enemy territory here and it's hard to do, you know, and clearly the Iranian air defenses are not decimated, we have, as we've seen today.

So, I do think it's difficult. So, we're going to do everything we can. We have the best forces out there to do that. And you should know in the American public should know that our air crews are trained for this very scenario. We go through a lot of training. We know how to communicate. And I have great hope that we can get the second air crew here.

BERMAN: We'll talk more about that training in just a second. First Major Penny, we do have video verified by CNN that appears to show us search efforts in Iran after the jet was downed, an operation taking place over hostile territory.

And we saw a U.S. Blackhawk helicopter take fire today there. That's according to "The New York Times" for search and rescue teams, you know, how much risk do you have to take on and when is it too much? When might you have to pull back on these efforts?

HEATHER PENNEY, DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH AND STUDIES, MITCHELL INSTITUTE: Rescuing a downed pilot is a moral obligation that our nation promises to our combat airmen. And so, when these fighter pilots were shot down, the combat search and rescue team, their motto is: So That Others May Live.

They are really true heroes because they go into the battle space that is hairiest, dangerous, it's the riskiest, and they are committed to do everything they possibly can to find those airmen and then bring them back home. They will do what no one else will. BERMAN: There are a lot of heroes at play here, working as we speak.

You know, Colonel McGrath, the fighter pilots, what kind of survival skills are you taught for just this kind of event?

MCGRATH: Well, when you eject from a high-performance aircraft, the first thing is just getting through the ejection. It's also a very violent thing to undergo. And once you get to the ground, the first thing that you do is try to communicate.

You want to evade, you don't want to be picked up, obviously. We don't know if the people on the ground or for you or against you. And so, you're trying to get, communicate to the combat search and rescue folks who will come, you know, as Heather said, you will know that they will come and try to find you.

So, we go through a school survival, evasion, escape, resistance school for this very scenario. And we trained for it and we have the best aircrew out there to do it.

BERMAN: The training is so important and I'm sure they are grateful for it tonight.

Major Penney, we talked about the idea of possibly encountering people on the ground. And we know the Iranian population being offered rewards tonight, they may be hostile.

What are you trained to do in terms of the local population?

PENNEY: You want to avoid the local population as much as possible. And that might be one of the contributing factors for why making contact with the second pilot would be very difficult, because we know that signals and emissions are very easy to pick up.

And so, depending on what they've been told to do within the special instructions, he could be maintaining radio silence if there are nationals near him or her.

So, there are things that, as Colonel McGrath mentioned, that we are trained to do, special things for that environment, that they are also taught to do. So, they're complying as best as they possibly can with the plan, so that when the search and rescue mission goes in, they know what to expect and they can connect.

BERMAN: Again, we hope that training is certainly being used for good tonight, and we certainly hope the best for this member of that cockpit team that is on the ground there.

Colonel McGrath, Major Penney, thank you both so much for helping explain what they're going through tonight.

We're going to be joined next by two retired Army Generals, their take on the larger war, what it means that Iran managed to do this today to U.S. aircraft, how they see the next phase of the war developing now.

And later, the big picture, truly from space, a view of planet Earth from Artemis II not seen by human eyes since 1972. We're going to hear from the astronauts as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VOICE OVER): NASA astronaut Victor Glover, having completed his exercise. Cleaning up in space. Obviously, we do not have showers aboard the Orion spacecraft.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:19:17]

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

BERMAN: This is video from Iranian media said to be of people searching a ridgeline for the missing crew member from an F-15 Strike Eagle that went down over Southwestern Iran. American search and rescue teams have already safely evacuated the other airmen who was on board the dual-role fighter attack plane.

Also tonight, new video of Iranians directing small arms fire at passing Blackhawk helicopters. "The New York Times" reports that a Blackhawk was hit. It's unclear whether it's one of these, but it made it back to safety.

Separately, Iran also hit an A-10 ground-attack jet, a U.S. official tells us the pilot managed to make it away from Iranian territory before safely ejecting and being rescued. So, that's three aircraft in total, two jets and a helicopter.

Some perspective now with CNN military analyst, retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Schwartz and retired Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt.

Generals, thank you very much for being with us. General Schwartz, first to you, the new reporting about the Blackhawk helicopter struck by Iranian ground fire, we're going to get to that in a moment. First, though, the big picture, you've got experience with this kind of search and rescue team in operation. What resources are being brought to bear?

[20:20:30]

LT. GEN. MARK SCHWARTZ (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, everything that's available, John, the Joint Personnel Coordination Center for recovery, you know, is stood up even when there isn't an incident but they are obviously solely focused on using every intelligence asset, both unmanned as well as our satellite capability. Also, the aircraft that are flying up over Tehran and Iran this evening to try to make communication with this isolated crew member.

And then, of course, in terms of the air and ground capability, both the Marine Expeditionary Unit have a capability specifically task organized to go and retrieve a downed-airmen, as well as the Air Force personnel recovery capability that you saw today, the HC-130 aircraft and the Pave Hawk helicopter. So, a lot of capability, a lot of redundancy. And so, finding the crewmen first, making that communications contact and then, assessing the threat where that crewman is at to be able to go in and safely recover them.

BERMAN: And just very quickly, General Schwartz at night, how helpful might the darkness be in rescuing this airman?

SCHWARTZ: Well, nighttime is our advantage. Just given the, you know, the optic capability that we have certainly, and this crewman, you know, may have had to been holed up in an area that is less safe and didn't want to take the risk to move during hours of daylight.

So, potentially they took advantage of the darkness to move to a safer location further away from, you know, where they touched down, maybe into a more remote area.

BERMAN: So, General Kimmitt, talk to us about what this means about Iran's air defense capabilities, because President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth have been talking a lot about the fact that the U.S. has complete air superiority over Iran.

Yet tonight, I think American viewers want to know, well, how can that be if two jets were taken down in a Blackhawk helicopter taking fire?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET) U.S. ARMY: Well, see, this is why communication is so important. Communications is not just a process of informing, but it's also about managing expectations.

And when you put terms out there like air supremacy, air dominance, it builds an expectation that we're impervious to being shot down, we are impervious to these types of actions.

Look, General Schwartz and I both know war is ugly, it's messy and bad things happen, and we are not making that clear to the American people as were engaging in this operation that that things are going to work out completely the way we want it.

There are casualties, there is equipment loss. We're seeing that now and the very fact that were talking about this as something extraordinary means that this administration, candidly, has not managed the expectations of the American people in terms of what the costs of this war will be.

BERMAN: Not surprising to you that Iran still has the capability, General Kimmitt, to shoot down these planes.

KIMMITT: I'm quite surprised, frankly, at the number of missiles and drones and air defense capabilities that still remain. There is little doubt in my mind that they have been decremented down to probably 10 percent of what they had before the war started, at most 10 percent.

But you can see today what happens when 10 percent is operational.

BERMAN: General Schwartz, the Iranians, what is it that they are trying to do now? And can we assume because if they had found this airman and we know that they've been calling on, you know, on locals to help. If they found this person, there would be, they would be trying to use this for propaganda purposes.

SCHWARTZ: Most definitely they would and that's, you know, gives me, I guess, a little bit of, you know, resolve and I hate to use the word hope because we don't like to use that in military, but, you know, confidence, I should say that, this crewman is still isolated, but certainly if they were captured.

What we haven't seen also is we haven't seen, you know, the other, the other seat, the other ejection seat. So, you know, that's good. Obviously, that separates once they leave the aircraft, but just to the point that they haven't found that yet gives me, you know, some confidence that that air crewman is still out there.

So, if Iran could exploit it, they would absolutely do that. And as we saw with, you know, in the early days of Desert Shield, Desert Storm, and even with, you know, other campaigns that the United States was involved in, where our pilots were captured.

BERMAN: General Kimmitt, what does this change in terms of the operation tonight, tomorrow, the next few days and maybe longer term since the Iranians have proved they can do this?

[20:25:20]

KIMMITT: It shouldn't change anything. We should always understand that this is going to happen in warfare. We should plan for it. We should expect it. As I said earlier, we should manage the expectations of the people for it. But you can't stop a war because of one downed aircraft or sadly, the loss of one soldier.

BERMAN: And General Schwartz, we've been looking at all this different video and have you been seeing it all day as well. What is it that you see that may not be so apparent to novices like the rest of us, in terms of the helicopters, the C-130s flying low over the ground, what is it that they're doing?

SCHWARTZ: Well, what really stood out to me when I first saw this footage, John, was the level of risk that and, you know, Colonel McGrath and Major Penney spoke to this in your earlier segment. The amount of risk that we will, you know, go to recover, you know, one of our crewmen or, you know, a service member in any situation, frankly, but certainly broad daylight flying, uh, extreme risk. One of the Pave Hawks looks like it was engaged. So that's what that certainly stands out to me.

BERMAN: And then just General Kimmitt, one final thing, the President was posting on social media again today about the Strait of Hormuz, in taking the oil from Iran, again. It's hard to know what number of shifts, because at first he said he wanted to take the Strait. Then he said he didn't need to, and now he's talking about it again. But when you hear him talking about the oil in the Strait, does that give you a sense of what the strategy is?

KIMMITT: Well, unfortunately, John, you and I have talked about this before. The strategy for this war really never took into account the Strait of Hormuz. It was always about the nuclear capability, the ballistic missile capability and the proxy operations. And that should remain the strategy that we focus upon.

Candidly, regime change is separate. Strait of Hormuz is separate. We need to stay focused on the objectives and these other issues, such as the Strait of Hormuz, can be worked, but they shouldn't paralyze us away from our strategy.

BERMAN: And of course, tonight the mission is to rescue that fallen airman. So, hopefully we'll get some good news on that in the next several hours.

General Mark Schwartz, General Mark Kimmitt, thank you both so much for being with us tonight. Have a wonderful Easter.

Next, how Iran's regime in the Iranian public sees the war in the wake of President Trump's speech this week, in his threat to bomb the country "back to the stone ages".

Journalist Jason Rezaian, who spent more than a year in Iranian captivity, joins us. And later, Pope Leo's Good Friday message to the world and his native country as our CNN Global War coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:32:39]

BERMAN: The breaking news, a search effort underway for a missing American airman after a U.S. fighter jet was shot down over Iran. Sources tell CNN a second crew member was rescued. We have new video just in, purported to show Iranian police officers firing at helicopters.

This is the New York Times reports that a U.S. Blackhawk helicopter was hit by ground fire during the operation but did make it back to safety. It's unclear if this video is showing that exact incident. Iran also hit a second U.S. plane, an A-10, that's also known as a Warthog. An official says the pilot ejected safely after flying out of Iranian airspace.

We're joined now by Jason Rezaian, who was imprisoned in Iran and wrote about his experience in a book titled "Prisoner: My 544 Days in an Iranian Prison." He's also director of Press Freedom Initiatives at the Washington Post. Jason, it's always great to speak with you.

So the search for a second U.S. crew member is underway tonight. Iran is also searching, and an Iranian state anchor promised a reward for capturing, quote, "enemy pilots." What do you think the likely scenario is if, God forbid, Iran finds this crew member first?

JASON REZAIAN, AUTHOR, "PRISONER: MY 544 DAYS IN AN IRANIAN PRISON": John, I think if the crew member is alive and is recovered by the Iranians, you can expect them to be the latest in the long line of Americans held hostage by the Islamic Republic. Obviously, I was one of those people before me, dating back to 1979 and the takeover of the U.S. embassy in Tehran, all the way into the present day.

There's six other Americans who are currently being held hostage in Iran at the moment. So, you know, I think, unfortunately, the sad reality is that this person will be used for leverage in political negotiations if they're recovered.

BERMAN: It's a decades-long history here, as you say. President Trump was asked by NBC if the down jet would affect negotiations with Iran, and he said, quote, "No, not at all. No, it's war." Do you think Iran sees it that way?

REZAIAN: I think Iran will use every piece of possible leverage that they have in a battle that they're not capable of winning in the long run in any conventional ways. I think that this is something that we forget about when we talk about the struggle between the United States and Iran.

Iran is a country with a deeply entrenched authoritarian system, but with a very old and decrepit military force that's been decimated, that doesn't mean that they're going to bow down and accept defeat. They're willing to fight until many more Iranian civilians and military personnel perish. And I think that that's an advantage to them, unfortunately, in this conflict.

[20:35:26]

BERMAN: So the Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, who has been one of the more public and outwardly facing figures, posted about the U.S. search on social media, writing, quote, "This brilliant no-strategy war they started has now been downgraded from regime change to, hey, can anyone find our pilots? Please?" He really is almost trolling President Trump.

To what end, do you think?

REZAIAN: There's a lot of that trolling going on on social media right now by Iranian officials like the Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf, by American officials as well. I think it's more for domestic consumption than it is for international consumption. But I don't think that President Trump will take kindly to that.

BERMAN: Jason, I know you still have some contacts inside Iran, and you've been trying to be in touch with them as much as you can. What are you hearing over the last few days, even before today's development, and if anything, about what's happening today?

REZAIAN: John, Iranians are stuck between a rock and a hard place. This regime is no friend to the Iranian people. They've proven that over and over again. In January, they killed thousands, potentially tens of thousands of Iranian protesters, as everyone knows.

But at the same time, the lack of a strategy or a vision of what might come after this conflict and the increasing amount of civilian infrastructure that's been destroyed over the past four and a half weeks is leaving Iranians not only with a lot of fear and concern, but a decimated country. And so I think that this need for a clearer picture of what might come next is what everybody's waiting for.

BERMAN: Jason Rezaian, you have such a unique perspective. Thank you so much for sharing it with us tonight. I appreciate it.

REZAIAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Next, an exclusive conversation with former U.K. Foreign Secretary David Miliband. He now heads up the International Rescue Committee and is just back from the war zone. Also, a report from Rome on the first American Pope's first Good Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:42:10]

BERMAN: The nearly five-week bombardment of Iran by the U.S. and Israel has killed more than 2,000 people. That's according to the Iranian Red Crescent. Thousands have been injured and residential buildings have been damaged or destroyed.

Lebanon's health ministry reports more than 1,300 people have been killed and thousands injured since Israel began its military campaign against Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed militant group. The International Rescue Committee says more than 1 million people in Lebanon have been displaced and that the war is creating a humanitarian crisis there and in other countries.

IRC President and CEO David Miliband has just returned from Lebanon and Syria yesterday and joins us for an exclusive interview. He's also the former Foreign Secretary for the United Kingdom.

Thanks so much for being with us.

DAVID MILIBAND, PRESIDENT AND CEO, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: Of course.

BERMAN: I appreciate you rushing in after you just got back. I do want to talk about your trip in just one second. But first, obviously, we're watching closely the U.S. airmen who were shot down, one still waiting to be rescued inside Iran.

President Trump said that the downed jet and the missing airmen won't affect any possible talks with the Iranians. I mean, in your experiences, you know, as a former Foreign Secretary, do you think that could possibly not affect talks or not affect the outcome here?

MILIBAND: Well, I think inevitably it's going to be an important part of any package. And you've discussed on this program the dangers if the Iranians are the people who get hold of this missing airman or airwoman. It's vital that the U.S. forces are able to do their business and try and rescue them. I was very struck by what was said earlier about the effort that's put into this on the U.S. side.

We've had our own experience in the U.K. Fifteen Royal Navy personnel were taken in 2007. But of course, that wasn't in a wartime situation. And the leverage that the Iranians are seeking is very real. And they've shown that they've got more leverage than they were given credit for.

BERMAN: You just got back from Lebanon and Syria. What did you see?

MILIBAND: I saw a lot of people suffering the direct consequences of the war, especially in Lebanon. These are two countries that in 2025 were getting back on their feet. Lebanon had a credible government, Syria got rid of its hated dictator, Assad. But in Lebanon, this million people being forced from their homes.

I met them in Beirut just the day before yesterday. I met some of them the day before yesterday. It's 20 percent of the population. One in five Lebanese people have been driven from their homes by the conflict.

The -- what they tell me is that they've seen this before, but they fear it's worse. The last time this happened was in November 2024. It was a relatively short campaign. They went back.

I met a baker. He had been bombed out of his bakery in a village on the border in 2024. He moved to a new bakery in Tyre on the coast. He's now been forced to leave all that he had behind again. And there are hundreds of thousands of stories like that.

Only 15 percent of the people who've been displaced are in shelters. The rest are on the floors of relatives, friends. So it's a desperate situation for a country that's very, very fragile and is always the victim of other people's wars.

[20:45:07]

BERMAN: And I know you're concerned about what's happening right now to one-fifth of Lebanon's population, also in Syria. But you've also got great concern about what is sort of a ticking time bomb in terms of the world food supply if fertilizer can't get out of the Strait of Hormuz.

MILIBAND: This is such an important point. There's the direct impact of the war, then the indirect impact because of the closure -- the effective closure of the Strait of Hormuz. The world is feeling the heat from that in gas prices across the U.S., obviously. But for the poorest people in the world, the great danger is that the fertilizer that agriculture depends on doesn't get laid in the next six, seven weeks.

We're predicting that the time bomb, the food insecurity time bomb, is going to go off in June if there is -- if that fertilizer, 30 percent of which goes through the Strait of Hormuz, doesn't get through. We're calling for a humanitarian passage for that fertilizer, because there's a global food security crisis in the offing if it doesn't get through.

BERMAN: And this is June. We're not talking way down the line here. We're talking soon.

MILIBAND: It's obvious. We're in the spring now. If you don't get the fertilizer on the land now, then the harvest doesn't work in the summer.

BERMAN: What kind of visibility do you have on the situation for civilians inside Iran?

MILIBAND: It's very hard. Obviously, international and non- governmental organizations, impossible to get into Iran. We have credible reports of three to four million people displaced by the conflict so far, but it's very hard to get real information and data. We're a global humanitarian agency.

We're in Syria. We're in Lebanon. Obviously, the ripple effects of this are very serious. We don't know what's going to -- what's happening inside Iran at the moment.

BERMAN: You're a former foreign secretary of a NATO country, how do you think it would feel right now to be in that job with President Trump, you know, taking these sideswipes at NATO every day?

MILIBAND: I think it's the substance that really counts. The great fear is that this war of choice is now yielding a situation where the remaining choices get worse and worse. The sense that all of the choices are unappealing now is very loud, and that's why you're hearing the calls from Europe and elsewhere to de-escalate as fast as possible.

BERMAN: David Miliband, thank you for your time. Thank you for the work that you do. It's never been more important. Really appreciate it.

MILIBAND: Thanks very much, John.

BERMAN: Elsewhere overseas, Pope Leo marked his first Good Friday service with a candlelit procession in Rome known as the Way of the Cross. He offered prayers for the orphans of war and deported immigrant children.

For more, I want to go to CNN Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, it was a remarkable service that took place at the Colosseum on Good Friday. Pope Leo carrying the cross for the entirety of this service that call -- recalls Jesus' suffering and death. Leo, the first pope in decades to hold the cross for the entirety of this Way of the Cross that took place in and around the Colosseum.

There were two moments, though, of quite poignant prayers that were said, one for children who have been deported, for immigrants, and a warning to those in power that they will be judged for their actions, including those who start or end wars. Quite a pointed message there.

And Leo has, in this first Holy Week and Easter, been more outspoken on political questions. I asked him on Tuesday night to get a message for President Trump when it comes to the war in Iran. He said he hopes the President finds an off-ramp to end it. And we can expect to hear more from Leo on Easter Sunday about wars that are taking place. Clearly, this is weighing heavily on him. And he wanted this service today to send a message, his first Good Friday since his election, his first Holy Week, and run-up to Easter since he became pope last May. John?

BERMAN: Christopher Lamb in Rome, thank you, and a joyous Easter to you.

Next from Space, details on a picture-perfect day for the crew of Artemis II, the first humans speeding toward the moon in more than 50 years. Also, our Bill Weir on Apple's 50th anniversary and his attempt to live without its most ubiquitous product.

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[20:53:41]

BERMAN: A view of home, one that astronauts have not seen since 1972 when Apollo 17 went to the moon. A picture of the good Earth, as Apollo 8 Commander Frank Borman called it in his 1968 Christmas Eve message from lunar orbit. God bless all of you, he said. All of you on the good Earth.

Then, as now, the country was at war and divided over that war. Back then, seeing photos of the Earth from Space spoke to people in a way that not much else could. Even now, looking at these photos from Artemis II, it is easy to see why.

As for the mission itself, there is news there as well. CNN's Ed Lavandera in Houston with much more on all of this. So what did the astronauts do today, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I should preface this by saying that one of the really kind of charming things to be able to watch in all of this as we've watched glimpses of the crew working inside the Orion capsule is you can just sense their excitement and their thrill of just simply being there.

I think just a little while ago, we were watching the crew eat their food from the bags and scooping it out with their long forks. And at one point, I think Jeremy Hansen had a piece of food kind of escape and he kind of chased it down with a spoon and brought it back to himself. He had another piece of food that was literally just floating right in front of him.

So just these very casual moments and being able to watch them work through all that. But they are continuing to do all of the checks, the systems checks to make sure everything continues to work properly.

[20:55:11]

You know, one of the things we've heard over and over from NASA officials is that they're trying to see how all of this equipment adapts and works in space in real time. So that's kind of the continuous checking out of the capsule system that they are going to do. And they're also preparing, you know, they're on this long journey to the moon, John.

And part of this is preparing for that historic moment. So there's a lot of photography and equipment work that needs to be ready for that moment because you just get one shot at this and then you start coming back to Earth. So they're really kind of gearing up toward that to make sure everything is in place and ready to go for those historic hours while they're flying around the moon.

BERMAN: A few days before they get there and they want to use every second of it for something to learn and to educate and to practice. Also, you know, a few days for mundane things. You were talking about getting washed while you're eating. What about hygiene? What about getting clean?

LAVANDERA: Oh, we caught a glimpse of that. And, you know, we saw one of the astronauts was kind of using a wipes to wash down their feet. There are no showers aboard the -- this capsule. So you kind of that's -- kind of what passes for a shower for them. But it was definitely a moment that will probably go viral as Victor Glover took his shirt off and was wiping himself down. You know, that was a very popular thing to watch here, John, as you can imagine it.

But it was, you know, again, it's like these glimpses of just what it takes to sustain themselves on this mission and how they have to do. And you have four astronauts working in these very cramped quarters to make all of this happen. And then on tomorrow, they will be paying close attention to make sure they're continuing to be on the right path.

At one point, there was supposed to be what is called an outward OTC outward burn to ensure that this capsule is on the correct path. They didn't have to do that today because everything is going very precisely in the direction that it's supposed to be going in. There's another one scheduled for tomorrow.

We'll see if they're going to need it. But, you know, they're on the path to the moon. By the time we wake up tomorrow, they will be halfway there.

BERMAN: That is incredible.

Ed Lavandera, so cool for you to be at Johnson watching all of this. Thank you so much for being with us.

So tomorrow night at 10:00 on The Whole Story, CNN's Bill Weir takes a fascinating look back at 50 years, 50, 5, 0 of Apple and how the tech giant has reshaped communication and our daily lives. Bill joins me now.

So, Bill, you've been reporting on Apple for, you know, decades since we were both at ABC and most of it, the last several years has been these big smash hits, but it wasn't always so easy.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Not always so easy. They were quarters away from bankruptcy a few times even after Steve Jobs came back. The Macintosh was a cultural hit, didn't sell a lot. It wasn't really until the iPod that became the phenomenon that we know today. And of course, then there was like, how can we put a telephone in this iPod? And then that changed everything with the iPhone.

BERMAN: It's almost hard to imagine life without it. You've got yours --

WEIR: I got mine, yes.

BERMAN: I got both mine right here.

WEIR: Exactly.

BERMAN: You know, it's been out since 2007. Do we know what it's done to our brains in that time?

WEIR: Well, you're seeing a lot of research about what is it, causality, you know, causation or correlation between depression rates, suicide ideation. You've seen horrible statistics with kids which start to peak just as these became prevalent right there. I think most of the experts I talked to says if a kid is predisposed to isolating and depression, this will push him over the edge a lot faster right now.

But you're seeing national phone bans in some countries, Australia, Germany, social media. You're seeing a real backlash right now. So that's why I thought this is a good moment to reflect on the good and the bad of this unintended consequences.

BERMAN: And Bill, for this document, I want to give too much away. You broke up with your iPhone.

WEIR: I did. Yes, yes.

BERMAN: How'd that work out for you?

WEIR: It was really fascinating. There's a month offline challenge that started in New York and Washington. I was inspired by these folks. I said, OK, I'll do half a month. And so I put this, my iPhone in a box and then switch to this old school dumb phone where you can still text and there's a map and a camera, but it's very crude and there's a lot of friction that you're not used to.

You need to type I love yous like 27 keystrokes in the old day.

BERMAN: You may love someone to do that.

WEIR: Yes, you got to really want to send that message, but it feels like it reset my relationship with this thing. And when I'm back into brain tests before and after, reaction times are faster. My processing between SIRIs (ph) and my brain was better on a dumb phone than a smartphone.

I'm obviously not going to swear it off. It's hugely valuable tool. It's saving lives. What's interesting, the emergency SOS on these is now responsible for like a third of the rescue calls outside of Los Angeles. It calls for help when you don't even know you're in trouble. But at the same time, our relationship with these, especially young people can be so complicated. So it's have an assessment. Is it using you or are you using it?

BERMAN: I was going to say, I feel like you've been smarter lately, but now I know why. Listen, Bill, it sounds so interesting. I'm so excited to see the full documentary. We've been talking about it all week.

Bill Weir, The Whole Story, 50 Years of Apple airs Sunday at 10:00 p.m. on CNN. And you can watch on the CNN app right on your phone if you want to.

And that is all for us tonight. I hope you have a happy holiday week and I will see you back here Monday morning at 7:00 for CNN News Central. In the meantime, there is a lot of news tonight.

The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.