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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Israel-Lebanon 10-Day Ceasefire Takes Effect; Trump Defends Feud with Pope: "I Have a Right to Disagree;" Trump: "If There's No Deal, Fighting Resumes;" U.S. Official: Iran Still Has "Thousands Of Missiles" & Attack Drones; Trump Hints New U.S.-Iran Peace Talks "Maybe" This Weekend; Artemis II Crew Talks About Historic Moon Mission & Return; Trump's Arch Gets Overwhelmingly Negative Feedback. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 16, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...by April 30th, that would be two weeks from today -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Just an unbelievable, unbelievably horrible story. Brian Todd, thank you very much, reporting from Virginia tonight and thanks so much to all of you, as always, for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
AC360 with Anderson cooper starts right now.
[20:00:21]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom. Topping our CNN Global War coverage tonight, another ceasefire, this time between Israel and Lebanon. Presidential optimism about the next round of talks with Iran and also from the President, what might best be called Pope fiction on the new ceasefire which began at 5:00 P.M. Eastern.
The President said it will run ten days, comes in the wake of Israeli airstrikes yesterday that Lebanese authorities say left 300 people dead. The President also posted, "I'll be inviting the Prime Minister of Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, and the President of Lebanon, Joseph Aoun, to the White House for the first meaningful talks between Israel and Lebanon since 1983, a very long time ago. Both sides want to see peace, and I believe that will happen quickly."
He expressed optimism as well about new talks with Iran, as he put it, probably maybe over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Iran wants to make a deal and we're dealing very nicely with them. We've got to have no nuclear weapons. If we do, that's a big factor and they're willing to do things today that they weren't willing to do two months ago. If it happens, it will be announced fairly soon, and that will give us free oil, free Hormuz Strait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the President also weighed in on gas prices. Is, which are down $0.07 from their peak, but still more than a dollar a gallon higher than before the war. Though he didn't put it that way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, they're not very high. If you look at what they were supposed to be in order to get rid of a nuclear weapon with the danger that entails. So, the gas prices have come down very much over the last three or four days.
REPORTER: Four dollars a gallon still.
TRUMP: I know you know, that's what ABC says, but the fact is that if you look at the stock market is up, everything's doing really well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, as for now the long running beef with Pope Leo, no ceasefire there. CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked him about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": Mr. President, why are you fighting with the Pope? And are you worried it's upsetting your Catholic supporters?
TRUMP: No, not, I have to do what's right. The Pope has to understand that -- it's very simple. I have nothing against the Pope. His brother is MAGA all the way. I like his brother, Louis. I'm not fighting with him. The Pope made a statement. He says Iran can have a nuclear weapon. I say Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
And if the Pope looked at the 42,000 people that were killed over the last two or three months as a protester with no weapons, no nothing. I mean, if you take a look at that, so I can disagree with the Pope. I have a right to disagree. I have a right to disagree with the Pope.
COLLINS: But he didn't say Iran can have a nuclear weapon -- he didn't say Iran could have a nuclear weapon, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Look, nothing, I have no disagreement with the fact, the Pope can say what he wants and I want him to say what he wants, but I can disagree. I think that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kaitlan Collins is going to join us shortly and keeping them honest, she's right. The pontiff has never said that Iran can have a nuclear weapon. Pope Francis' predecessor called the possession of them immoral and in 1948, Pope Pius XII, the first atomic age pope called nuclear arms, "the most terrible weapon that the human mind has ever conceived."
So no, Pope Leo does not endorse Iran going nuclear. He does, however, oppose this war and spoke out again today without naming the President, but using language bound to invite questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV, BISHOP OF ROME, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND SOVEREIGN OF THE VATICAN CITY STATE: Jesus told us, blessed are the peacemakers, but woe to those who manipulate religion and the very name of God for their own military, economic or political gain, dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth. The world is being ravaged by a handful of tyrants, it is held together by a multitude of supportive brothers and sisters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Pope didn't name names of those he feels are manipulating religion for their own gain. Just today, Defense Secretary Hegseth invoked the biblical pharisees in attacking reporters at his morning press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF WAR SECRETARY: Our press are just like these pharisees, not all of you. Not all of you, but the legacy Trump hating press. Your politically motivated animus for President Trump nearly completely blinds you from the brilliance of our American warriors. The pharisees scrutinized every good act in order to find a violation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Secretary Hegseth seems to be trying to portray any questions reporters ask about the war as an attack on America's military, as opposed to being legitimate questions of an administration which has cited a number of sometimes contradictory justifications for this war, which they refuse to call a war, despite insisting on calling the Department of Defense the Department of War.
[20:05:14]
Secretary Hegseth also made news today for reciting a prayer he says was used by service members involved in the search and rescue of that downed F-15 crew member earlier this month.
He referred to it as a CSAR 2517. Now, CSAR stands for Combat Search and Rescue, and he said he thought. The prayer was, "meant to reflect Ezekiel 25:17."
Now, if you're unfamiliar with that, this is from the King James Version, "... and I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes, and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them."
Now the CSAR 2517 prayer, however, was modified to include lines from "Pulp Fiction," the Quentin Tarantino film with a few military words and references added to fit the context. The Pentagon says this was a custom prayer in their words, inspired by dialog in "Pulp Fiction" and that Secretary Hegseth knew that. Here's the mashup. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: This prayer was recited by Sandy one, which is one of the Sandys to all Sandys, all those A-10 crews prior to all CSAR missions, but especially this CSAR mission that happened in real time.
They call it CSAR 2517, which I think is meant to reflect Ezekiel 25:17. So, the prayer is CSAR 2517.
SAMUEL L. JACKSON, AMERICAN ACTOR (scene FROM "PULP FICTION")Well, there's this passage I got memorized sort of fit's this occasion.
Ezekiel 25:17.
HEGSETH: The path of the downed aviator is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
JACKSON: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
HEGSETH: Blessed is he who, in the name of camaraderie and duty, shepherd the lost through the valley of darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
JACKSON: Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and goodwill, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
HEGSETH: And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to capture and destroy my brother.
JACKSON: And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger. Those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
HEGSETH: And you will know my callsign is Sandy one. When I lay my vengeance upon thee.
JACKSON: And you will know my name is the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: For film buffs out there, according to "Variety" magazine today, Tarantino lifted the Samuel Jackson additional dialog from a 1973 Japanese martial arts movie called "Bodyguard Kiba," which brings me to Ecclesiastes 1:9 There is nothing new under the sun. Joining us now is CNN anchor and the source, the source and chief white house correspondent Kaitlan Collins.
So, what are the White House officials saying privately about the Presidents back and forth now with the Pope?
COLLINS: I mean, it's just gone on now for multiple days, Anderson, ever since the Pope first spoke out against the war period, which I don't really think is that surprising, of a position for the Pope to take. I don't think many people would be shocked to hear what he had said earlier this week about that.
But obviously, after the President saw that segment on "60 Minutes" on Sunday, he was responding to this. And, I mean, that's why my question today was one that I have even heard from other Trump allies and people who like this President and his administration who have asked why this fight is still ongoing. And that's why I just simply asked him that today, why he's still fighting with the Pope, why he's fighting at all with the Pope.
And obviously, you heard the President respond to that, saying that he disagrees with that. And his explanation for this has shifted over the last several days leading up to this White House departure today, Anderson, of what he was arguing, that the Pope was saying about the war and that he was suggesting that Iran should still be able to have a nuclear weapon.
Today, he outright claimed that the Pope said Iran can have a nuclear weapon. That is not something the Pope said immediately. That was a very easy fact check, because obviously the Pope has not said that and has instead previously argued against nuclear weapons and against war, period.
But I think what has been different here is that the pope has not really kind of backed off saying anything about the war. Instead, as he has been continuing to go around the world, he's continued to weigh in on this and say, blessed are the peacemakers, and comments like that in terms of what has been playing out with Iran.
And so, obviously, it's an engagement that is still ongoing and one that a lot of allies of the White House do not think is a wise one or one that is winnable. But the President himself is not backing away from that criticism.
COOPER: And the President's optimism about another round of negotiations. Does that track with what you're hearing, because he's saying that Iran has decided, has agreed to give up their nuclear dust?
[20:10:01]
COLLINS: Well, that was something I asked him about today when he first came out, because he was saying that Iran has agreed to not have a nuclear weapon when he says nuclear dust, he's talking about that enriched uranium that is buried underneath a ton of rubble.
We know right now in Iran, after the bombings and the strikes that have happened, and that the President has gone back and forth, he's vacillated, Anderson, on whether or not he believes the United States needs to be able to get ahold of that, or if it doesn't need to, how that would happen would be extremely complicated.
And so today, when he was kind of laying all these things out, you know, my question was, well, what's left? You know, why is this still a negotiation if you have everything figured out? And he spoke to the complicated nature of these talks that is still underway, including with the strait of Hormuz. And so, it's not really clear on where he's standing on this, because the ceasefire deadline expires on Tuesday.
The President said today that he didn't want to extend it, that he would be willing to if the talks are going well, if the talks don't go well, he says the fighting will resume. But he did sound very optimistic about trying to get a deal, even though they have not confirmed exactly if the second round of talks are happening. Though he did throw out this idea, Anderson, if the talks go well enough, he personally could visit Pakistan, which has been the mediator in all of this.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlin, thanks so much. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source".
Perspective now from conservative radio host Erick Erickson and Democratic strategist Paul Begala.
Erick, you're not Catholic, you're a devout Christian. What goes through your mind when you hear the President of United States repeatedly going after the Pope, making claims about the Holy Father's statements?
ERICK ERICKSON, CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO HOST: You know, I listen, I'm an Evangelical Presbyterian, grew up Southern Baptist. The Pope's not the leader of my faith. But at the same time, I don't think the President should be attacking the Pope. In fact, if he just said what he said today, I've got my views, the pope has his. I don't care what he says. I disagree with him. I don't have much of a problem with it. It goes back to his tweet, though, from last week.
We've got Midterms coming and you've got now 30 percent of the American electorate who are swing voting Catholics, and he's going to war with the leader of their faith. And he could have just said he disagrees with the Pope.
COOPER: Paul, I mean, you are a devout Catholic. You worked in administration and on campaigns that weren't always on the same page as the Vatican, but never did things devolve into personal attacks from the White House. How do you see this?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, never. I work for President Clinton. I had the honor twice of meeting with his holiness Pope Saint John Paul II, in fact, got to tell the Pope that I named my first-born child, John Paul, after him.
And it was one of the great days of my life. And I was there when they met, and they disagreed about abortion of course. Clinton, a Democrat, was in favor of abortion rights. The Holy Father hated it, but it was very respectful and reverential relationship as it usually it always has been with Presidents.
It's not just that Trump is attacking the Holy Father, it's, that he keeps going back to it. This is why I thought Kaitlan's question was so telling. He comes back and back and it is, Erick will know this. It's scriptural. Proverbs 26:11 as a dog returns to his vomit. So, a fool repeats his folly. Just shut up, Mr. President. He, in our poll, Trump is 29 points underwater, 29 points in the Gallup Poll, the Holy Father is 46 points above water. That's a 75-point differential. You don't want to pick this fight, Mr. President.
By the way, the Holy Father is right. You should end this war. It's unjust and unwise and unwarranted. But he sure has to stop this fight with the Pope because he's going to hurt himself and his party terribly politically. And I actually think he's, I think it's a big mistake.
COOPER: Erick, I mean, obviously this comes on the same, you know, in the same time frame that the President shared that A.I. generated image of himself as, as, you know, Trump, Jesus. Um, posting also a profanity laced social media message on, on Easter Sunday. Does it, do you think it's odd that he does this?
ERICKSON: Yes, I do, and here's my problem. And if you all will just bear with me. The problem is that the President is now almost 80 years old and he's surrounded with a group of evangelical pastors who I don't know that they've ever shared the gospel with him. They seem to be far more transactional with the President of the United States, and don't really care whether it goes to heaven or hell.
My problem is not with an 80-year-old who acts like he's always acted. It's with the Evangelicals who surround the President, who don't seem to want to engage with the President because they would rather get scraps from the table than make sure his soul is actually saved. The problem here is these evangelical leaders on the council who watch Paula White the week before Easter say things that no Christian pastor should say in the White House.
COOPER: I mean, she was basically standing next to him to his face, comparing him over and over and over again to Jesus.
ERICKSON: Yes, exactly. And you had evangelical pastors there who, by the way, don't believe that women should even be in the pulpit applauding her for being in the pulpit, refusing to correct her walk out. If they actually think there's a heaven or hell, they should be worried about where the President is going. Instead of trying to excuse his antics when he does things like this. You know, if enough of them actually went to him and said, this is bad. Cut it out. He would. But they don't because they're afraid, they'll be cut out of power. And you know what? Christ was not afraid to be cut out of power. He went to a cross and bore it well.
COOPER: Paul, the White House actually took down those remarks by the President's, so-called spiritual advisor, comparing him to Jesus. And obviously the post of the A.I. Jesus. Trump was taken down as well, although the President said he thought it was just him as a doctor. What do you, I mean, does this concern you?
[20:15:23]
BEGALA: Well, it's the literal definition of blasphemy, right? It is posing Trump as Christ, and that's blasphemous. And across the spectrum, people are saying that and that's true. He did take that down. And I'm glad he did. And he lied about it and said he thought he was a doctor. That's typical Trump.
But there are other actions he's taking. Theres a report today that the Trump administration has canceled an $11 million grant they were giving to the Archdiocese, Catholic Charities, Archdiocese of Miami, which for 60 years they have been using money like that from our government to help unaccompanied minors who come into our country. Miami, of course, being a great gateway city of immigrants.
So, for 60 years, the Catholic Church has been helping these kids and doing a great job. And today, reportedly, the Trump administration canceled that. And the Archbishop there just said, I'm baffled. And I'm not. I know exactly what's going on. You know, scripture says vengeance is mine, sayeth the lord. But Trump likes to take his share himself.
COOPER: Well, it's interesting. Go ahead. Go ahead on that one.
ERICKSON: Yes. So, you know, the reason they canceled the grant and I do think they have the evidence to back it up is it was going to unaccompanied minors. And we've secured the border so much that they don't actually have the minors there that are unaccompanied to take care of.
So, the grant, by the way, was canceled two weeks ago before the President's tirade about the pope. So, I think there's a justification there without reading into the lines about antagonism with the Pope, I got a lot to criticize for. But that's not one of them.
COOPER: Erick Erickson, Paul Begala, guys, thank you, good discussion appreciate it.
Coming up next, the diplomatic road ahead is the Israel-Lebanon ceasefire gets underway and the President looks ahead to a fresh round of talks with Iran. Former National Security advisor John Bolton joins us.
And later, the Artemis astronauts talk about their journey to the moon and a hair-raising homecoming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTOR GLOVER, ARTEMIS II MISSION PILOT: I've never been skydiving, but if you dove off a skydiver, a skyscraper backwards, that's what it felt like for five seconds. And then the mains, the pilots and the mains came out and it was it was glorious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:33]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HEGSETH: We are locked and loaded on your critical dual use infrastructure on your remaining power generation and on your energy industry. We're ready to go at the command of our President and at the push of a button.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Defense Secretary, Hegseth warning to Iran today, dual use infrastructure means equipment or buildings or technology that has both military and civilian applications. He also said Tehran could choose peace, something as we mentioned before the break, the President again sounded hopeful about today.
Here with me now, John Bolton, who served as National security advisor in the first Trump administration and the U.N. ambassador under President George W. Bush. It's interesting because Senator Lindsey Graham said that after speaking with President Trump, he's, "confident were not going to extend the ceasefire. Do you buy that?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR TO TRUMP'S FIRST TERM: Well, I think confident because they think they're going to make a deal, which I think they could do because Trump wants a deal to get out of this more than anything else.
COOPER: You feel he definitely wants something. He wants to get out?
BOLTON: Yes, I think he recognizes he doesn't really know where he's going with this, that somehow it got out of his control and he fears the economic consequences, gas at the pump being what it is and fears the political consequences. There's no national strategic analysis here. It's Trumps political well-being that's at stake.
COOPER: I want to you something he said about the actual nuclear material, nuclear weapons that that Iran may have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Very important is that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. And they've agreed to that. Iran's agreed to that, and they've agreed to it very powerfully. They've agreed to give us back the nuclear dust. It's way underground because of the attack we made with the B-2 bombers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Is that possible that Iran has already agreed to give up their enriched uranium?
BOLTON: I find that very hard to believe because that that is something that would require a major U.S. presence on the ground just to dig it out and take it away. But the President's absolutely wrong in saying that when Iran claims that they acknowledges they will give up the pursuit of nuclear weapons, that that's a big deal. This has been going on for a long, long time. Iran is a signatory to the nonproliferation treaty by which they committed 40 years ago, never to build nuclear weapons in 2004, they agreed with the Europeans not to seek nuclear weapons in 2015.
COOPER: And the Obama deal, they agreed to that.
BOLTON: They do it all the time, they just disregard what they pledge. So, if Trump is looking at that as a justification to declare victory, he's just flat wrong.
COOPER: It's interesting, though, because so many of his criticisms of that nuclear deal in 2015, I mean, it seems like whatever, we have no idea what this deal may be, but it seems like it may be not all that different then. I mean, money will be given to Iran, will get money, uh, whether or not they control the Strait of Hormuz and they'll have some sort of nuclear program.
BOLTON: Look, for 30 years plus, it's been clear Iran has made a strategic decision that it wants nuclear weapons through all the ups and downs of diplomacy, there has never been any hard evidence that the Iranians have given up that pursuit, and they haven't given it up now.
They'll sign almost anything now to get those U.S. forces out of the region. And once they're gone, they'll start building back. They started building back after the 12-day war last summer, which is evidence of just how long their commitments last.
COOPER: Do you worry that the focus for this administration really is just to get a deal that keeps the Strait open and not worry or push the nuclear stuff down the road?
BOLTON: I think it's a combination. But honestly, at the Pentagon they have a phrase called restoring deterrence, which is after it fails how do you make it clear to the adversary not to do it again? I think deterrence has failed here in the Strait of Hormuz, and the only way to restore it is to take it back by military force, to have a blockade that stops Iranian oil from coming out. But the capacity to have Arab oil get out so that we get oil back on global markets, the price comes down, and Iran --
COOPER: You're talking about not just a blockade of Iranian ports. You're talking about a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.
[20:25:35]
BOLTON: I'm talking about freeing the Strait from the constraint or the threat of attacks on tankers coming in and out.
COOPER: But don't you have to destroy the Iranian regime to do that?
BOLTON: That's been my view for 20 years. You're not going to have peace and stability in the Middle East, not on the nuclear threat, not on the terrorist threat, not on the threat of the Strait of Hormuz. As long as this group of fanatics is in charge in Tehran. And although the President has said he's achieved regime change, that is the farthest thing from the truth. It's just another group of fanatics.
COOPER: And when the President is saying essentially is that these are people he can deal with, that they seem much more reasonable than the others.
BOLTON: He's out of touch with reality. People said for 40 years, you know, it's okay deal with Iran, no moderate, all revolution's moderate, the extremists will give way. You know, normal people will come out. It turns out exactly the opposite. The further down you go, the harder line they are. So, imagine at a time when Iran actually gets a nuclear weapon, which it could have already by buying one from North Korea tomorrow. If you think the Strait of Hormuz is at risk today, how much more is it at risk when they have nuclear capabilities?
COOPER: Death to America is still part of their founding documents. That's exactly right and occasionally when somebody says something for 47 years straight, it may mean they actually believe it.
COOPER: Ambassador John Bolton, thank you, appreciate it.
BOLTON: Thank you.
COOPER: Next, more on the Defense Secretary's warning that Iran should choose wisely or face additional attacks on their infrastructure. Also, new reporting on the missile capability that U.S. intelligence is conceding behind closed doors Iran still has. Lawmaker who received that assessment joins U.S.
And later, what happens when the President's gigantic new arch goes before the Presidents handpicked commission for approval, which it did today? No surprises, but still quite a story. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:31]
COOPER: You're looking at satellite images believed to be of Iranian earth-moving equipment digging out a buried missile site. Today, lawmakers got a closed-door briefing during which intelligence officials told them Iran still retains thousands of missiles and one- way attack drones capable of threatening American and allied forces in the region. That echoes CNN's reporting from earlier this month that roughly half of Iran's missile launchers were still intact.
Joining us now is Congressman Adam Smith, Ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee. So, Congressman, you heard Secretary Hegseth threatening to bomb Iranian infrastructure if a dual-use infrastructure, if the regime, in his words, chooses poorly. Do you believe that's bluster? Or do you think he and the President would make good on that threat? And is that legal?
REP. ADAM SMITH (D), RANKING MEMBER, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, it's not legal to attack civilian infrastructure, not the laws of war that we, the United States of America, have signed up to. As far as whether or not the President and Secretary Hegseth would follow through on that threat, I agree with John Bolton, your previous guest.
The President is desperate to get out of this. He got into it not knowing where he was going. He's not getting the concessions out of Iran that he wants. Does that desperation lead him to cut the best deal he can, or does it lead him to escalate? It's really hard to say.
And certainly, he's not telling us the truth repeatedly. I mean, when he says that Iran has already agreed to these things, that's manifestly false. So it's hard to know what reality Donald Trump is living in. So it's a real risk that he might decide to escalate, thinking that that somehow might yield a better result.
COOPER: So you were in the briefing today. A senior U.S. official says Iran still retains thousands of missiles, one-way attack drones that, you know, threat -- capable of threatening allied forces all throughout the region, despite the bombardment that's occurred. How much does that complicate the prospect of a ceasefire expiring without a deal?
SMITH: Well, I mean, it really complicates it. But again, this is something that we knew going in. It is very, very difficult in an air campaign to completely destroy the military capacity of an adversary, particularly one like Iran, that had thousands of missiles, thousands of launchers, and a whole bunch of drones.
You can significantly degrade it, but if your adversary isn't trying to take over anything, they're just trying to maintain the ability to inflict pain, then that's a much lower bar for them to jump over. And we all knew going into this that Iran would maintain that capability. And the President just sort of hoped that the regime would somehow collapse.
But again, as John Bolton said, it's simply become more hard line. So, yes, it's a huge problem in terms of being able to force Iran to do any of the things that we would like them to do on nuclear weapons, on support for terrorist groups, on their ballistic missile program.
COOPER: Do you think the administration went into this thinking that, or believing, or having been told by some people, that this would collapse the regime? Do you think that's what they thought?
SMITH: Absolutely. Yes. I mean, they've said repeatedly, no, regime change wasn't the goal, but I think that was the promise. When they did that, you know, precipitous strike based on Israel saying that they had an opportunity for a decapitation strike, I think that was the hope.
And they really didn't think through exactly where the war was going. Now I think the hope, basically, is that our blockade of Iran will somehow force them to the table and force them to make an agreement. Iran has shown a very high capacity to absorb pain.
So I'm not sure that's going to work. And meanwhile, let's not forget about the cost of this war. Devastating to the economy, the price of oil here in the U.S., but globally.
[20:35:03]
We've lost 13 service members, hundreds wounded, thousands of civilians killed, the damage to our partnerships and alliances, all of that to basically not make much progress on key goals. And, by the way, the Strait of Hormuz, which was open before this even started, is now a big problem.
I mean, it shows what a lot of us said from the start. This was a very stupid decision to launch this war. Now we just have to hope that the President figures out some way to get out of it and minimize the costs going forward.
COOPER: I want to go back to something you said before, which is -- and we talked about this with Ambassador Bolton, that the President -- I mean, that the President says Iran has said they're going to give up their, you know, any desire to have a nuclear weapon and that they're going to give up their enriched uranium.
There's absolutely no evidence of that, and it would be remarkable if they have already agreed to give up their enriched uranium. It's also remarkable that the President of the United States can say something like that, which seems, on the face of it, to just --
SMITH: OK.
COOPER: -- be ridiculous and it not be headlines, that the President of the United States is, if he is making something up of that magnitude, that's extraordinary or should be extraordinary.
SMITH: Oh, God, that's just pure fantasy on his part. And, look, this has been Trump. I mean, he's always saying stuff that's completely untrue, and somehow people have decided that's OK. It was never OK, all right, whatever the alternatives may have been, to have a President this disconnected from reality.
I mean, remember, he's been saying for, what is it now, nine years that -- or sorry, seven years, that Iran is begging him for a deal. They're begging him for a deal. And that was never true. So we have a President who doesn't even know what the truth is leading us into a devastating and costly war.
And we had a vote today in the House to end this war. And all of the Republicans just signed up and saluted and said, let's follow the guy who's just making it up as he goes along. It's a huge problem that I think we need a lot more pushback against.
COOPER: Congressman Adam Smith, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Coming up next, the Artemis II astronauts hold their first news conference. Since returning home and talking about their historic lunar flyby, their incredible splashdown on the Pacific and how the mission has changed their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was an unbelievable adventure, and it was made possible by this crew and the support of each other throughout the whole thing. And I've said it so many times, we are just -- we are bonded forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: And later, a question of arch support and opposition as the President's towering new monument goes before his hand-picked commission for approval, and dissenters make their voices heard.
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[20:41:54]
COOPER: Nearly a week after Artemis II's fiery and magnificent return from the voyage to the moon and back, four astronauts who took that journey spoke today at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, answering questions for the first time about doing what no human has done since 1972. Here's Randi Kaye.
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REID WISEMAN, ARTEMIS II COMMANDER: We launched as friends, and we came back as best friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome home.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back from Space for less than a week, the Artemis II astronauts still haven't readjusted to life on Earth.
CHRISTINA KOCH, ARTEMIS II MISSION SPECIALIST: Every time I've been waking up or in the first few days, I thought I was floating. I put a shirt in the air, and it went (INAUDIBLE).
KAYE (voice-over): The four astronauts took questions from the media about everything from sleeping in Space.
KOCH: Space sleep is the best sleep ever.
JEREMY HANSEN, ARTEMIS II MISSION SPECIALIST: I sleep a lot better now because I don't have Reid underneath me kicking me.
KAYE (voice-over): To safety concerns far from Earth.
WISEMAN: Always know in the back of your head that something could go wrong, and I think that just builds a little bit of anxiety. Make the fire alarm go off in your spacecraft when you're still about 80,000 miles from home.
KAYE (voice-over): And what about that pesky toilet?
WISEMAN: The toilet flushed just fine, but then when the liquid went out the bottom of the toilet, it got clogged up in our vent line. For the first two days of the mission, it was fun to watch that thing get dumped. I mean, that is an interesting thing to see out the window. It's just like a billion little tiny flecks of ice heading out into deep space.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Service module separation.
KAYE (voice-over): Remember when the Orion capsule separated from the service module just minutes before reentry? The astronauts sure do.
HANSEN: We're waiting for separation, and all of a sudden, bang, a loud bang, we're all pinned to the floor. We're -- we all looked at each other like, well, I guess we separated. Or it exploded.
KAYE (voice-over): The astronauts also reflected on the moment they reentered the Earth's atmosphere at nearly 25,000 miles per hour and the parachutes used to help slow them down.
VICTOR GLOVER, ARTEMIS II PILOT: That was a very intense 13 minutes and 36 seconds. That moment was when the drogues released and then the pilot chutes and the mains came out. We went back to free fall. If you dove off a skyscraper backwards, that's what it felt like for five seconds. And then the mains -- the pilots and the mains came out, and it was glorious.
KAYE (voice-over): According to Commander Reid Wiseman, the heat shield which protects the capsule and the astronauts from extreme heat upon reentry, as much as 5,000 degrees, held up well.
WISEMAN: We came in fast and we came in hot. And I will tell you, looking out the window that whole way in, it was a smooth ride. It was a very smooth ride. I think Ike and I maybe saw two moments of a touch of char loss.
KAYE (voice-over): The crew spoke of the profound impact the trip to the far side of the moon had on them and the struggle to make sense of what they saw.
HANSEN: This depth to the galaxy that I just had never experienced before, that was mind-blowing for me.
KAYE (voice-over): After splashdown once back on the Navy ship, the commander shared that he asked for a chaplain.
WISEMAN: I saw the cross on his collar, and I just -- I broke down in tears. Like, it's very hard to fully grasp what we just went through. When the sun eclipsed behind the moon, I think all four of us -- I turned to Victor and I said, I don't think humanity has evolved to the point of being able to comprehend what we are looking at right now.
[20:45:07]
KAYE (voice-over): A total solar eclipse more than 250,000 miles from Earth, the farthest any human has traveled, all part of the mission they shared with the world.
Randi Kaye, CNN.
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COOPER: Former NASA astronauts and two incredibly impressive Americans, Leland Melvin and Chris Cassidy, join me now. It's so awesome to see you guys again, and it's so awesome to hear from those astronauts back on Earth. Chris, you know all the astronauts personally. I'm wondering what went through your mind when you heard them talk about their experience in Space.
CHRIS CASSIDY, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT AND NAVY SEAL: You know, you can just feel the camaraderie and the friendship that exists between the four of them and to know that that bond that they went through, when you experience moving hard things together with a team that works efficiently and accomplishing things, it's very, very satisfying. And to hear Reid say, we left as friends, we came back bonded forever, kind of says it all, and just so much pride watching them.
COOPER: Leland, however, for you, what stands out?
LELAND MELVIN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: I think the biggest thing, you know, echoing what Chris said, but, you know, when they came back, they had changed the way people looked up at the moon and also looked at each other because you had this group of people that have never been in Space like this before for the first time. And it's changing the way that people see themselves on the planet and maybe one day in Space.
COOPER: It's interesting, Chris, though, to hear their perspective. I mean, it seems like they are still kind of coming to grips and thinking about the experience and what they saw and even trying to put it into words. Is that something you're familiar with, that that experience in Space, it's so particular that it's hard to even kind of comprehend?
CASSIDY: Yes, absolutely. And I think it will take some time because the immediate post-flight period is really busy for a crew. You land, you're right into medical training. You -- everybody's testing you. In this particular case, I know they spent some time getting put into lunar surface suits and trained to kind of test how capable are astronauts immediately after landing on doing actual tasks on the lunar simulated lunar surface.
So they've had the past five, six days of just really, really busy. So in that kind of environment, it's hard to process those deep thinking kind of things. So I imagine that that'll be a process that takes place for all of them over the coming weeks and months and as they get out and about the country and the world to share those experiences and feel what others felt and how moved others were in the nation and the world watching them.
COOPER: Leland, were you surprised that they were -- you know, when they not just splashed down, but when they got onto the ship, they were able to walk off. You know, they sat on the helicopters for a while, then they were able to walk off on their own. There were wheelchairs out there for them. None of them used it. Did that surprise you?
MELVIN: Well, I think all of them were so amped up by going to the moon that they had quite a bit of adrenaline flowing to keep them moving. But, you know, when I was in Space on my last mission, I was up there for 10 days, Anderson, and I was able to get up and walk from the shuttle and, you know, people were there to help you.
But, you know, I did feel a little woozy, but not enough to keep me from walking across the stage. And something else that Chris said about, you know, when you're looking back at the planet, having words to describe what you see. When I looked at the planet after filming the external tank falling, I could not describe the colors of blue that I saw in the Caribbean.
I needed new definitions of the color blue. And my mind got blown. I think I probably shed a tear. It was amazing.
COOPER: It was just a blue that you had never seen before.
MELVIN: Azure, indigo, turquoise, baby bird blue. I needed new definitions to see the different -- the 30 different hues that I could not define.
COOPER: And Chris, can you just explain for non-astronauts, non- scientists out there, why the success of this mission is so important? What it may mean for future operations?
CASSIDY: Well, Anderson, the first flight in any big Space program is a significant one. Shuttle and the Space station crew, and now Artemis. It's laying the groundwork for what's ahead. I think that's what's important. And what struck me, what Reid and Victor were talking about, the handling qualities and the performance of the vehicle, it was really, really smooth.
Everybody gloms onto the toilet because it's a fun thing to talk about, but the actual machine functions just as it should. And if you laid the trajectory of the predicted re-entry path to the real data of the real entry path, it was almost overlaid on top of each other, which kind of tells you how amazing the engineers and the people are that predict that, that develop the models and made the system work.
So the fact that everything came together like that really shows that we're going to be successful in our endeavor to get to the moon. We've got to make a lander. We've got to have suits that allow people to dig holes and build stuff on the surface. But those are technical problems that smart people out there can solve, no problem.
[20:50:14]
COOPER: Leland, what are you looking forward to in the next Artemis mission?
MELVIN: Well, Anderson, I'm looking for them to figure out how to do some more docking with the lander, get the lander up there, and get a way that people can get down on the surface and start building these habitats and building a way for humanity to live off of planet Earth. And I hope we never have to do that in case an asteroid is kind of aiming up and lining up to take us out like it did the dinosaurs.
But hopefully that we can maybe live on two planets and also look back at our planet to see the beauty, the majesty of what we have and to have us working together as one family while we're peering at it from a lunar habitat.
COOPER: And, Chris, we've got about 30 seconds left, but that description of falling off a skyscraper backwards sounds really terrifying. Have you had similar experiences like that?
CASSIDY: Well, as Victor was kind of talking about the parachute sequence, it's a little different in every vehicle, and the Soyuz that I came back in in a parachute sequence, it doesn't have that. But he also talked about how the parachutes were breathing, and he could feel the up and down motion additionally. So the human body and the human ear is kind of the best g-meter that is out there. It's pretty incredible.
COOPER: It's amazing. Chris Cassidy, Leland Melvin, it's such an honor to talk to you again, guys. Thank you so much. You take care.
MELVIN: Thanks, Anderson.
CASSIDY: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Coming up next, what a Trump-friendly panel decided today about the President's 250-foot-tall triumphal arch near Arlington National Cemetery despite feedback they got from the public. More on that ahead.
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[20:56:02]
COOPER: President Trump's giant arch moved one step closer to a groundbreaking after the Commission of Fine Arts, which has been stacked with Trump loyalists, voted to move forward with the project. The commission received overwhelmingly negative feedback, almost a thousand comments, and all of them 100 percent against the project. But the commission ignored the public concerns and is paving the way for construction to begin.
Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wasteful, gaudy, disruptive. Against a torrent of public complaints, the Trump administration is plowing ahead with plans for a massive triumphal arch across the river from the Lincoln Memorial. With no less than the Interior Secretary telling the U.S. Fine Arts Commission the project --
DOUG BURGUM, INTERIOR SECRETARY: Will strengthen the city's symbolic architectural vocabulary. Will enhance the city's triumphal urban design.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to be really beautiful. I think it's going to be fantastic.
FOREMAN (voice-over): The President began talking up what some are calling the Arc de Trump last year, and the size has now quadrupled to a towering 250 feet, taller than the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, just a bit shorter than the U.S. Capitol.
PHILIP KENNICOTT, ART & ARCHITECTURE CRITIC, THE WASHINGTON POST: This is gargantuan, and it's going to fundamentally change the skyline.
FOREMAN (voice-over): What's more, Washington Post culture critic Philip Kennicott asks --
KENNICOTT: Why a triumphal arch? When did America celebrate triumphs? We honor sacrifice, we honor service, and when war is over, we get back to peace. He just doesn't understand the history and the symbolism of this city.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Of course, it fits neatly into Trump's ambitious effort to remake the nation's capital in his own style, with his name, his image, and classical themes. Sarah E. Bond is an associate professor of ancient history.
SARAH E. BOND, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF IOWA: But I think he believes that this is going to be part of his legacy, that if he builds a gigantic arch that surely won't be dismantled, that it will continue to place him in this kind of pantheon of great presidents.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Despite a $100 million price tag, according to Axios, and a lawsuit, the commission, stuffed with Trump appointees, rapidly approved moving ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there a aye?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a rendering of the arch for you.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Team Trump says the edifice will enhance Arlington and the nation's 250th birthday. But when Trump rolled out his idea and was asked, who's it for? His answer then, "Me."
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
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COOPER: Quick note, a new episode of my podcast on grief and loss called "All There Is" is now available. You can scan the QR code you see at the bottom of your screen or listen wherever you get your podcasts. My guest is New York Times Staff Writer and Editor Sarah Wildman.
In 2019, her daughter Orli was 10 years old and diagnosed with initially a rare form of liver cancer. Orli, Sarah, and her husband, Ian, and their younger daughter, Hana, faced a lot. Orli died three years ago at the age of 14. And I talked to Sarah about that loss and some of what she's written about it.
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COOPER: You wrote, "The weary griever is used to the expression I can't imagine. It is an expression of distance and of pity. It is a declaration of separation. I won't do it. I can't face it. I'll never have to. Thank God it's you, not me. Phew. And yet some of the best art is art that does precisely this sort of imagining, refusing to look away from the very human condition of grief."
SARAH WILDMAN, STAFF WRITER AND EDITOR, NEW YORK TIMES: You can imagine. You've imagined it from the first moment your child slipped on the handlebars and fell to the ground and you ran over to make sure he's OK. You imagined it from the first moment you felt a fever and it terrified you and then you reassured yourself.
And you imagined it from the first moment you realized that your parent could die. I think for many children, it's around the age of four or so, right? The first moment that you realize that none of us will survive forever. We've always imagined it. So when people say I can't imagine, and they do all the time, they really are distancing themselves and protecting themselves.
I know that sounds maybe more bitter than I mean to sound, although sometimes I'm bitter. The expression I can only imagine is a little bit better than I can't.
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COOPER: You can listen to the full conversation, "All There Is," on the "All There Is" website, CNN.com/AllThereIs, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's a really beautiful and moving conversation.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
