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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump Extends Ceasefire Until Iran "Discussions Are Concluded"; Interview With Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA); Iran: U.S. Blockade On Iranian Ports An "Act Of War"; Pentagon: U.S. Forces Board Sanctioned Vessel In Indian Ocean; Trump: I Have Directed U.S. Military To Continue The Blockade; New Book Collects Inspirational Speeches By Adm. William McRaven; Trump Reads Bible Scripture At A Complicated Moment For Him And American Christians; CNN Projects Voters Approve New VA Congressional Districts. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 21, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Now, air traffic control reacted very quickly.

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CONTROLLER: Brickyard 4464 you are flying through the approach to runway 31 left. Correct immediately. You have traffic immediate vicinity, three 'o clock high, 2,000 feet.

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BURNETT: It is incredible that they can speak so quickly and not mumble their words. You can then hear a second controller.

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BURNETT: Anti-collision alarms went off in both cockpits. Thank God the planes did land safely. Thanks for joining us. AC360 begins now.

[20:00:45]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom. Breaking news in our CNN Global War coverage tonight. President Trump extending the Iran ceasefire. with the deadline looming, Iran calls that a ploy to buy time for a surprise strike.

Now, it all happened with the President starting the day threatening more bombing. But as he has done more than a half dozen times already, he has not followed through on that and has now extended the ceasefire, apparently indefinitely, with an initial two-week deadline set to end today.

Yesterday, President Trump pushed that back to Wednesday evening, Washington time that seemed to be predicated on Vice President Vance and the American negotiating team departing early today for talks with Iran in Islamabad. The President was asked this morning if the negotiations were going well, would he push back the ceasefire deadline again? Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't want to do that. We don't have that much time because by the time both parties get there, as you know, they just got the okay to go forward, which I knew they were going to do anyway. I don't think they had a choice. They have to negotiate.

JOE KERNEN, CNBC HOST: You're saying that you need a at least a prospect for a signed deal today and tomorrow, or else you would resume bombing Iran?

TRUMP: Well, I expect to be bombing because I think that's a better attitude to go in with. But, you know, we're ready to go. I mean, the military is raring to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: But the Vice President, along with Middle East Envoy Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, never left uncertainty over the peace deal talks grew throughout the day with no public commitment from Iran that they were even going to attend.

Around noon, CNN spotted Secretary of State Rubio arriving in The White House, followed by the Vice President and the Defense Secretary later in the hour. Witkoff and Kushner, who were believed to be flying in from Miami, arrived at The White House around 2:30.

Then, at about, 90 minutes later, the President took to social media saying, "Based on the fact that the government of Iran is seriously fractured, not unexpectedly so, and upon the request of Field Marshal Asim Munir and Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif of Pakistan, we've been asked to hold our attack on the country of Iran until such time as their leaders and representatives can come up with a unified proposal. I have therefore, directed our military to continue the blockade and in all other respects remain ready and able and will therefore extend the ceasefire until such time as their proposal is submitted and discussions are concluded one way or the other."

The President portraying this as something done at the request of Pakistan, certainly a far cry from his comments this morning and his rosy portrayal of the status of negotiations at the end of last week and into the weekend".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're willing to do things today that they weren't willing to do two months ago.

If it happens, it will be announced fairly soon and that will give us free oil, free Hormuz Strait. This process should go very quickly and that most of the points are

already negotiated and agreed to. You'll be very happy. How are we going to get the nuclear dust? We're going to get it by going in with Iran. We need the biggest excavators you can imagine, but were going to go in together with Iran. We're going to get it and were going to take it back home to the USA.

We'll have some information by the end of the day. We're talking to them. And you know, we're taking a tough stand. They've killed a lot of people. A lot of our people have been killed.

They've gotten away with murder for 47 years. They're not getting away with it anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, we now know that the President announcing negotiation points, he said the Iranians had agreed to could have contributed to the ultimate failure of the talks that were held. Some Trump officials privately acknowledged to CNN that the President's public commentary has been detrimental.

For now, the American blockade continues. The Department of Defense released this video. They say it shows them boarding an oil tanker in the Indian Ocean and that, "We will pursue global maritime enforcement efforts to disrupt illicit networks and interdict sanctioned vessels providing material support to Iran".

An advisor to Iran's lead negotiator said the blockade is a siege that is, "no different to bombardment," and went on to say that, Trump's ceasefire extension, "means nothing". And that, "The time for Iran to take the initiative has come".

I want to bring you Kaitlan Collins, CNN's chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source".

So, I understand you have new reporting on why the President decided to extend yet another ceasefire deadline.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": Yes, Anderson, what we understand now from our sources is that in between that comment the President made this morning on CNBC, when he said, he didn't want to extend this ceasefire with Iran as it was set to expire. And between that announcement that he made at 4:00 today, announcing that he was indeed extending it without giving any new end date to that ceasefire, is a meeting that the President had with his core National Security team at the White House.

You saw a lot of them going in, as you just noted there, the Vice President, J.D. Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary Hegseth, the Joint Chiefs Chairman, the CIA director, all of these people were there meeting with the President, and basically they were trying to decide, you know, what they should do next, Anderson, should the vice President get on his plane and go to Pakistan as he was scheduled to do today, and as basically all the logistics had been put in place for him to leave, or should he not go?

[20:05:46]

And the question was really how serious the talks could be and whether or not they'd actually make real progress should he take that long trip and flight to Islamabad. And basically, what threw a wrench into all of this was that the United States, Anderson, had sent the Iranians some broad points that they wanted them to agree to and say yes to before they even sat down at the negotiating table yet again.

Basically, they wanted to see if they were serious and if they could actually make real progress. And what I'm told, Anderson, is that they had not heard anything back from the Iranians, that they had sent that proposal a few days ago. It had been virtual silence ever since then.

Obviously, they were weighing, you know, should the Vice President get on a plane and go to Pakistan if they had not actually heard anything back from the Iranians, they were going to their intermediaries, as you just noted, the one that the President was praising, their Pakistan's army chief, trying to get an answer from the Iranians before J.D. Vance got on that plane and basically had not heard anything.

And that is what led the President today to come to this decision to extend the ceasefire. Now, the question is, why are they not hearing anything? Because the President has sounded very hopeful in recent days that they were close to getting the deals.

You know, just on Friday alone when he was leaving the White House, he sounded extremely hopeful that something could happen here. And so, what we are told is that they believe that there's a huge fracture in the Iranian leadership and that they can't really come to a consensus, or it's not clear that the negotiators are going to Islamabad would be able to say, hey, here's how much uranium we can enrich. Here's what we can do with the enriched uranium we already have. And so, those are still open questions. And a lot of that has to do with the Supreme Leader himself.

It's not clear if he's giving directions according to what our administration officials are saying to these officials, or if they're just simply assessing what they believe he wants here. And that's really what was happening, at least behind the scenes today at The White House that led to this.

COOPER: Interesting, Kaitlan Collins appreciate that reporting, thank you. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source". Kaitlan is going to be interviewing Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Now to Pakistan, where the prime minister has thanked President Trump officially for extending the ceasefire with Iran. CNN's Nic Robertson is in Islamabad -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Anderson, it really feels as if the slash diplomatic roller coaster played out in full volume today. You had the Pakistani mediator, the Foreign Minister, saying that he believed that if the United States extended the ceasefire, that would allow the Iranians to get to the negotiating table with the U.S. team.

Now, the Pakistanis have stayed very much in the sort of background here who just let both the United States and Iran do the speaking. So, this was a pretty public position he took. And then the Information Minister here called on the Iranians to step up and make a commitment before the ceasefire expired. And the ceasefire was due to expire, according to the Pakistanis right in this hour.

So, what the President has done here by extending the ceasefire potentially does get the Iranians back engaged, potentially does allow the Vice President to come to talks because the Iranians may actually come this time.

If we listen to what the Iranians have been saying over the recent couple of days, their Foreign Minister, the sort of number two in the negotiating team, has said very recently that it is essentially a war crime that the United States is maintaining the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz and the Iranian ports.

President Trump was very clear in his Truth Social post, he is not lifting the blockade, right, that's one thing. The main lead negotiator, the Speaker in Parliament from the Iranian side has said that Iran wasn't going to come to the table and negotiate under the shadow of a threat.

Well, it always seemed like the end of the ceasefire was going to be essentially that shadow, that cloud over the Iranians head, that this was going to be pressure points on them in any talks. Now, that is the thing that President Trump seems to have removed in the equation here -- Anderson.

COOPER: Nic Robertson, Nic, thanks very much.

Joining me now is CNN National Security analyst and former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner, and CNN political commentator and former Trump White House Communications Director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.

Beth, I mean, yet again, another, you know, deadline set another deadline pushed. What do you make of this one?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this was a tough decision for them to make. I mean, it was a real dilemma, right? They had basically three choices. They could bomb Iran, they could --

COOPER: Which they clearly don't seem to want to do.

SANNER: They don't want to do and if they did it, it would lead to retaliation by Iran and we'd be back at this again, so that's not a great choice. They could send Vance when the Iranians have never agreed to show up.

COOPER: It could be embarrassing.

[20:10:26] SANNER: Humiliating, or door number three, they could extend the

ceasefire and then with the added point here of maintaining the blockade, which I think they had to do, otherwise we would have looked like we were capitulating. So, door number three was basically in a dilemma. You know, the least bad of three choices. So here we are and I think that it was the right decision to make.

I think that Nic is right, it opens up this period now where we can negotiate. But my surmising, I'm kind of taking a little bit of points in addition to where Kaitlan left us. If we were demanding that they respond to basically an ultimatum, you have to show up. And not only if you agree to these things and maybe they weren't ready to say no because they didn't want to say yes, because maybe those were two maximalist demands.

And so, I think that could be as much of it --

COOPER: Well, it's also interesting that some administration official is and Alyssa, let me bring you in on this is leaking out that, well, we believe there's fractures in the regime and the President is saying that in his social media post, it's fractured. I don't know if that may be true. It may also be that time is on the Iranian side and they know the U.S. seems more desperate than they are for some sort of a deal.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right, the President very clearly wants an off ramp here. I don't think he ever anticipated this was going to go into the eight weeks that were going into, to put it in the simplest terms.

COOPER: Which is kind of incredible.

GRIFFIN: It is --

COOPER: That they would not have had. I mean, the U.S. military has, you know, is extraordinary and has endless scenarios and plans in place, that they would not have --

GRIFFIN: Have anticipated some of these things. I was at the Pentagon after the Soleimani strike. We anticipated a number of outcomes after that. I have to believe the President. "The New York Times" has reported, CNN has reported that he was briefed on many of these eventualities, including closing the Strait. But I think that there was truly this belief by some advisers around the President that you take out the Ayatollah, that you hit some of their sites, and that it wraps up pretty quickly.

He underestimated the Iranian resolve. And now he's in this position where this war is more and more unpopular, especially with his own base. And you have Iranians who are literally and theoretically not willing to come to the table right now. What he needs to be doing is selling a message back home right now.

He needs to convince the American public that if this ends up dragging on longer as it looks, it's going to, why we even have a vested interest. The message around they cannot have a nuclear weapon that generally resonates with the public. But right now, you're hearing these very disjointed messages. It's about depleting their basic military capabilities. It's about regime change. It's about uplifting the people of Iran. They have to figure out what they're telling us were doing, and then they need to pull a rabbit out of their hat and actually get the Iranians to the table.

COOPER: Well, they're also in a bind, because they did make that argument when the last major strike against Iranian nuclear facilities, which clearly, you know --

SANNER: -- significant damage.

COOPER: -- significantly damage, they said it obliterated it.

SANNER: Yes, so why do we have to do this, it was like -- and I think that's the conundrum there into, like, I believe that, yes, the 440 kilograms needs to be dealt with, but there's a whole lot more of the nuclear program that needs to be dealt with than just that.

If we were just doing that, we could just take JCPOA out of the waistband and wastebasket and give it back to them. Because basically, if we don't do a whole lot more weaponization, what about the other 200 kilograms of 20 percent uranium? What about all the centrifuges we don't know about like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we're not dealing with any of the other threats that they have.

So, you know, it is, they do need to figure this out, but it is not an easy sell.

GRIFFIN: And by the way, what will be incredible is if at the end of the day, we end up with something very similar to the JCPOA, something that Donald Trump ran against, that Republicans, myself argued against --

COOPER: But he was railing against --

SANNER: We have money for them.

COOPER: Well, that was the thing, I mean, he was railing against money given to the Iranian regime, they're in a situation where there may be a lot more money even given --

SANNER: And if they open the Strait, there's going to be money. There has to be money.

GRIFFIN: And if I can say, I think we've seen like on the home front, how markets have responded to Trump. We talk about TACO Trump always chickens out and have kind of hedged for his different actions and are prepared to respond. I'm starting to wonder that what was once considered his strength, this madman theory of Trump, that he's going to say wild things and world leaders will be on their heels because who knows what he might do? I think people are starting to call his bluff.

COOPER: Well, does the Iranian regime understand the White House far better than the White House understands the Iranian regime, it certainly looks like it.

SANNER: Yes, and we have literally and I think this point that Alyssa makes is so important. It's like this being unpredictable as a strength is actually a weakness and we're raising our level of difficulty in this negotiation because even though you don't trust the Iranian regime, they have to trust that we're good for our word.

In the last two times we were in negotiations with them, we literally bombed them in the middle of the negotiations. So, they don't trust us at all and now, we have, you know, maybe the speaker putting out this place --

[20:15:36]

COOPER: It just seems like a dangerous situation and I'm not a business person, but in any negotiation, when you know your opponent wants to make a deal more than you need to make a deal.

SANNER: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Correct and, you know, Trump's been critical of previous Presidents for laying down red lines and then not holding to them. And I think we're at a point where he's gone extremely far in some of his threats and suggestions. And I think the Iranians are waiting it out and seeing that he's not acting.

SANNER: This looks like us TACOing to them.

COOPER: Yes, Beth Sanner, thanks very much, Alyssa Farah Griffin, as well.

Up next, what to make of this moment, the President's ceasefire extension and Iran's response that they should act militarily. I'll talk it over with Democratic Congressman who's a member of the Armed Services Committee and a combat vet.

And later, the Biblical moment for the President in the Oval Office after he came under fire, including from conservative Christians, for posting this A.I. image looking like Jesus.

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[20:20:34]

COOPER: Our breaking news tonight, just after President Trump announced an indefinite ceasefire with Iran, something he repeatedly vowed not to do, an Iranian official threatened military action and peace talks are called off for now between the U.S. and Iranian officials.

Joining me is Massachusetts Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton. He's a Marine Corps veteran who served four tours during the Iraq War. He also sits on the House Armed Services Committee.

So, Congressman, where do you think we are right now? The ceasefire extension, I mean, is it part of a cohesive diplomatic strategy or is it just buying time during all this confusion?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): It's just buying time during this confusion because Trump has absolutely no idea what to do next and once again, there is no plan. There never has been a plan and Trump himself doesn't know how to get out of this mess. So, he started this war that he's losing. He's now losing the peace as well, Anderson and he truly doesn't know what to do next.

COOPER: It's interesting you say he's losing. I mean, I think back to Vietnam, where the metric that the U.S. was using was body count. And, you know, number of munitions dropped and that was the story being told by administrations, you know, for years and on the ground, it was a different war.

MOULTON: It's the same story here, they -- it's not body count right now it's targets destroyed. And we hear about this every day and CENTCOM and the administration say everything's going according to plan. Well, if it's going according to plan, where was Iran closing the Strait part of the plan? Where was billions of dollars of damage to Gulf allies part of the plan? Where was billions of dollars of American equipment lost and destroyed part of the plan? Where was an endless war part of the plan?

They keep citing targets destroyed to try to say that we're making progress, but that doesn't have anything to do with strategic goals. We have not eliminated their nuclear weapons program. They're going to rebuild their ballistic missile programs. We did sort of achieve regime change, but we installed a more hardline regime that seems more committed to a nuclear weapon, and now we seem to be in an endless war that the President can't figure out how to get out of.

COOPER: It's interesting to try to figure out who is, I mean, who's kind of driving this. Is it Iran or is it the U.S.? Because I mean, this administration had set up these negotiations and, you know, Vice President Vance was ready to get on a plane today. And then there was just no sign, no feedback from Iran, apparently. And then, you know, now publicly, the President is saying, well, Pakistan has asked us to delay. Perhaps they did, maybe it was at the White House urging, I'm not sure but it certainly to you, does it seem like the administration has control of events or is Iran?

MOULTON: No, Iran has control of events. Iran is driving the bus. Every single day, the President says something about negotiations about to start. And then Iran calls his bluff. It seems that the Iranians understand Trump's mind far better than Trump understands the Iranians.

And fundamentally, they have the willingness to endure the pain and stick this out. They are in a better position today than they were before this war started. I mean, remember what was happening right before Trump started his war of choice. We were negotiating with the Iranians to curtail their nuclear weapons program. We were asking them to cut back on their nuclear weapons development.

Now, we're asking them to do that and reopen the Strait of Hormuz. So, we are in a far worse position. And who's paying the price, the American people, 13 American soldiers are dead. I mean, Anderson, the American people are paying up at the pump. American troops are paying in, and the only ones cashing out are Trump and his family.

COOPER: We had Ambassador Ryan Crocker on very experienced in the region. Yesterday, he was basically arguing the best the U.S. can hope for right now is getting back to the status quo in the Strait of Hormuz in the short term, from any negotiations and then some sort of dealing with the nuclear issue down the road.

MOULTON: I mean, Ambassador Crocker is not only a far more experienced Middle East diplomat than myself, Anderson. He's a hundred times more experienced than any of the people from the Trump administration trying to negotiate this deal. So, I think he's right.

I think the reality is that the Trump administration is begging the Iranians to come to the table because they're begging the Iranians to reopen the Strait. And in getting to the point where we actually have the nuclear program on the table, I mean, that would be a really good day for the United States. And let's not forget that under President Obama, the Iran nuclear deal, the first line of it was preventing Iran from ever having a nuclear weapon.

And that wasn't based on trust, that wasn't President Trump saying, oh, I can trust these new guys. That was based on inspections, intrusive inspections, constant electronic monitoring. The first Trump administration certified the deal was in place. So that's what Trump ripped up a deal to prevent Iran from having a nuclear weapon.

He's now begging to just get back to some semblance of that today.

[20:25:43]

COOPER: Yes, Congressman Seth Moulton, thank you so much for your time. Up next, where does the war go from here perspective from former commander of U.S. Special Operations Command and retired Navy Admiral William McRaven.

And later, Rachel Goldberg, Poland, whose son, Hersh was American- Israeli hostage held for 328 days by Hamas before he was murdered in a tunnel, speaking out about grief on a new episode of my podcast being released later tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN, MOTHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: The grief is a badge of love because it is the love that is continuing to grow in the absence of the person that we adore. And that's a price I'm willing to pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:33]

COOPER: As we mentioned, U.S. forces boarded a vessel in the Indian Ocean overnight. It was previously sanctioned for transporting Iranian oil. Now the move comes as President Trump announced the blockade of Iranian ports will remain in effect while negotiations continue.

I want to get perspective now from Retired Navy Admiral William McRaven. He's also the author of an inspiring new book, "Duty, Honor, Country, and Life: A Tribute to the American Spirit." It's a collection of speeches the Admiral has given over the years, focusing on heroism, courage, and sacrifice.

I want to talk about the book in a moment.

ADM. WILLIAM MCRAVEN, U.S. NAVY (RET.): Sure.

COOPER: Just on the military situation right now, big picture, how do you see the position of the U.S., and what are you hopeful could happen?

MCRAVEN: Well, I mean, right now we're at an impasse. The fact of the matter is the Iranians aren't going to come to the negotiating table until we lift the blockade, but of course the blockade is our leverage.

COOPER: Right.

MCRAVEN: So the President's going to be reluctant to lift the blockade. So somebody's going to have to blink. Somebody's going to have to make a decision that some sort of negotiated settlement is better than continuing the way we are.

And I was listening to Seth Moulton before this. I'm not sure I disagreed with anything he said. Right now, it appears the Iranians have, you know, more of the leverage than we do, even though the military has done a magnificent job of carrying out the President's direction. But I'm not sure what the next steps are from here.

You're going to have to get the straits open. You're going to have to make some sort of resolution on the nuclear program. And I think that's still a ways off.

COOPER: Ambassador Crocker, who was on the program last night, who I mentioned to -- was saying that status quo would be the best you can hope for in the strait in the short term --

MCRAVEN: Sure.

COOPER: -- for many negotiations. Do you think that's probably true?

MCRAVEN: I would never disagree with Ryan Crocker. I think he's --

COOPER: Everyone says --

MCRAVEN: Well, that's because he was one of the finest that ever served. And I agree. In the short run, that's probably a good play. But in the long run, we can't allow the Iranians to continue to have leverage on the Straits of Hormuz. So at some point in time, you're going to have to get straits open. And I think the only way that's going to happen is if we lift the blockade, we can still pressure them with, you know, more tactical, more strategic strikes and hopefully get them to the table so that we can move this thing forward.

COOPER: I do -- I want to talk about your book, "Duty, Honor, Country and Life." It does seem -- I mean, it seems like it's such an important time for a book like this, because I mean, I have a four and a six-year-old and I worry about --

MCRAVEN: Sure.

COOPER: -- the kind of country and world that they are going to be stepping into. In one of your speeches to the New York Historical Society in 2023, you write, "For all our missteps in the past 247 years, and there have been many, we are still the nation and the world that" -- excuse me -- "We are still the nation that the world looks to for help. We are still viewed as the good guys."

Do you think that's as true now as it was then? And how do we make that even truer?

MCRAVEN: Yes, it's -- I mean, right now, certainly I think the world views us a little differently. But here's what I'd offer. You know, I teach class at the University of Texas. I travel around the country every week.

I've been to all parts of the world. And I still believe that the American people believe in themselves. They believe that they are the good guys. They know that if we're going to keep this democracy going for another 250 years, that we're going to have to get back to some things that are important to us, that are baked into our DNA.

This idea that I talk about in the speech to the New York Historical Society, this idea that we need to be good. We need to be smart. We need to be people of character and integrity. We need to have compassion. We need to show the world what good looks like.

But you can't do that if you're continuing to undermine and criticize our allies across the world. We need, frankly, the President to be presidential, to represent the values that we think are important as America, the values of equality and justice and integrity and --

COOPER: Because --

MCRAVEN: -- the rule of law because these are important.

COOPER: Because as you say, you travel around the country as do I. I see that all over the country --

MCRAVEN: Right.

COOPER: -- in communities --

MCRAVEN: Right, exactly.

COOPER: -- and in people and in students. And I don't necessarily see it on people on TV --

MCRAVEN: Right.

COOPER: -- or in political life at times.

MCRAVEN: Right.

COOPER: But that is for me what gives me hope.

MCRAVEN: Absolutely. As it should.

COOPER: And I wish those people had control over more than they --

MCRAVEN: But they do. But they do. And this is the one thing that I tell audiences when I'm talking to them. So look, we've got problems. But you know who can resolve these problems? We can.

[20:35:02]

It's still a democracy. We can vote people in. We can vote people out. We can use our voices. We have to make sure that this democracy continues by doing the things that we have always done.

COOPER: I do think, though, in this world of like the looming threat of AI, I mean, benefits --

MCRAVEN: Yes.

COOPER: -- but also potential threats of it. I'm not talking about military, I'm just talking like --

MCRAVEN: Yes.

COOPER: -- psychologically to our young people. I think like we've given up so much of that, those levers. And we're sort of just consulting ChatGPT.

MCRAVEN: I don't agree.

COOPER: No?

MCRAVEN: I don't agree.

COOPER: Good.

MCRAVEN: And again, I have a chance --

COOPER: I'm a catastrophist. I see the worst.

MCRAVEN: Look, yes, our parents, our guardians, our teachers, our coaches. Everywhere I go, I see people in America that still believe in these values that were part of the founding documents, the values that have gotten us this far. And this is what the book is about.

This is -- this book I hope if you have any doubt about the future of America, if you have any doubt and you're losing a little faith in America, read a couple of these speeches. And again, my speeches are stories and they're stories about people that have inspired me.

COOPER: Your speeches are legendary.

MCRAVEN: Nice. But these are speeches that about other people. And again, I think you'll find that America continues to be the good guys below the daily news that we get. And like I said, I love this young generation. I'm the biggest fan of the millennials and the Gen Z that you'll ever meet. And I think they are the future. And we're going to get through this tough time.

COOPER: Yes. Admiral, it's really an honor to have you share it.

MCRAVEN: My pleasure. Thank you.

COOPER: Thanks so much. The book, again, "Duty, Honor, Country and Life: A tribute to the American Spirit."

Up next, more breaking news. Virginia voters go to the polls, weigh in on a redistricting ballot measure. Democrats there are seeking to dramatically redraw the congressional map. We'll see what voters think. John King will have the latest results.

And after posting an AI image of himself being embraced by Jesus, President Trump blurring the line between church and state takes part in a marathon Bible reading event from the Oval Office. More on that ahead.

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[20:41:13]

COOPER: More breaking news. We are getting more results from Virginia where voters weighed in today on major redistricting push by Democrats that could decide which party controls Congress after the midterm elections. The commonwealth is the latest battleground for redistricting efforts across the country by both parties.

John King is here with more. So, John, what are the results so far and just explain why this matters beyond Virginia?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, I have that mini magic wall with me because we're on the road. We could show it on a bigger screen to our viewers and you can see 51 to 49 or 51 to 50 if you round that up, which of course is not math that works. But it's a nail biter.

We have a nail biter in this critical piece of mid-decade redistricting chess and tonight it's the Commonwealth of Virginia. No, meaning do not redraw the map, do not help the Democrats get more seats, is leading at the moment. But you see that tiny margin 22,000 votes. Just an hour ago, that was above 130,000.

So what's happening? I just want to show you right now as we look where are we and we're waiting for this to play out. This is to bring this down in here. Wrong one, let me touch the button here to bring this in. What are we waiting for? This map tells you here, if you're confused, the bigger the circle, the more outstanding votes. We're still waiting to count votes. And where are the circles biggest? They're green. That's yes.

So we're waiting for more votes in places that are voting yes, which is trailing at the moment. But that tells you Northern Virginia, that's the most populous part of the state. Richmond in the suburbs down here in the center, that's the capital and the big suburbs there.

Yes, there are some areas where no is leading. You see those other orange circles as well. But the giant green circle here in Northern Virginia tells me that the yes forces still have a chance because that's how they win statewide races. That's where they win statewide races. So we need to let this one play out.

I'll come back to this in a minute and we'll see if the vote count changes even as I'm talking. It has even when we were just doing that. You see now it's just yes is now ahead. So there you go.

As votes come in, you're having a conversation about where you're missing votes and votes come in, Anderson, and yes is now pulled ahead by 11,000 votes. Why does this matter? Well, let me switch maps for a minute and I'll come back to that vote total again in the end to check on it for you.

Remember, President Trump months ago said, hey, it's a midterm year. Hey, we are likely. Republicans are likely to lose the House. I want help from red states.

So here's the margin right now. Democrats need only three. With a Republican President as unpopular as President Trump is, Democrats are going to retake the House if the election is held tomorrow.

President knows that. So he said, hey, Texas, give me some seats. So Texas redistricted, they think five, although I think one or two of those races actually might surprise Texas Republicans in being competitive.

Missouri, a Republican state said, sure, Mr. President, we'll help. And they added a seat. Where I am tonight, Ohio. Ohio redrew its map. That's two seats. North Carolina has redrawn its map. That gives the Republicans probably one more seat.

You see what happens over here on the left side. Makes it a little bit harder for the Democrats. Under this scenario, if Republicans want all those seats, Democrats would be at 206. So they would need 12, not three. But Gavin Newsom in California said, oh, no, you don't.

California is going to pass a plan and they get five. Then there was a court ruling in Utah where they get another one. You see the Democrats are coming back. Now it would be only six.

So if Virginia tonight says, we'll give you four more to the Democrats, look what happens. You're essentially back at the status quo or a little better for the Democrats than they started without all this redistricting.

One other wild card, and then I'll check the vote total. Florida state still may do this in the spring. That would advantage Republicans a few seats. But in the end, Anderson, in a year where the President is so unpopular right now, they're moving the dial a little bit.

Democrats could actually come out a little bit ahead in this drama that President Trump started, thinking it would help him or maybe just a little bit behind. The key here is, do they get those four seats in Virginia? So let's wrap by going back to the national map and taking a peek.

And yes, has now pulled ahead by a little bit more, still very close, 50 to just under 50, if you look at those very close numbers. But the momentum in the last hour of the vote count, as more votes are counted in the population center here in Northern Virginia, Richmond and the suburbs, the momentum is now on yes, but very, very close. You count to the end, Anderson.

[20:45:01]

COOPER: All right. John King, thanks very much.

Tonight, President Trump took part in a Bible reading, part of a weeklong event called America Reads the Bible. We'll play you some of it in a moment. He recorded a scripture reading last week, a day after posting and then removing the deeply bizarre and offensive to many posts for portraying himself as Jesus bathed in celestial light, healing a sick man.

He then followed that, of course, by reposting this AI generated image of himself being embraced by Jesus, accompanying it a message from the President, quote, "The radical left lunatics might not like this, but I think it is quite nice."

Tonight, the President is among nearly 500 people taking part in this Bible reading event, including the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of State, as well as the White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles. Organizers call it a spiritual celebration of America's 250th anniversary.

It comes during his very public feud with Pope Leo over the war in Iran, where he said the pontiff is terrible for foreign policy and should, quote, "focus on being a great pope, not a politician." The President recorded his passage from the Bible in the Oval Office.

He read part of Second Chronicles, Chapter 7, including this verse that's become a rallying cry for the Christian right in the U.S. and around the world for decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The President is, of course, not terribly familiar famously with the scripture, but he has encouraged other Americans to embrace the Bible for the low price of $59.99.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Had to be partnering with my very good friend Lee Greenwood, who doesn't love his song "God Bless the USA," in connection with promoting the God Bless the USA Bible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: On the same website where you can buy that, you can spend $99.99 to own your own Presidential edition Bible complete with President Trump's seal or the Melania Trump First Lady edition also available for $99.99.

Joining me now, journalist and co-founder of Lift Our Voices, Gretchen Carlson and Bruce Feiler, author of bestselling books, and his latest comes out next month, "A Time to Gather: How Ritual Created the World and How It Can Save Us."

Bruce, what's your take on on this Bible reading from the President?

BRUCE FEILER, AUTHOR, "A TIME TO GATHER": I watched a lot of it. The first thing that jumped out to me was how low tech it was. It was largely, basically, a camera on a person reading from, you know, from note cards. I see you nodding your head, like, if they expect that's going to change the minds of young people weaned on TikTok, that's not going to happen. They're preaching to the choir. The choir was sleeping.

But I think that we should say that, you know, presidents have quoted scripture throughout history -- Washington --

COOPER: Sure.

FEILER: -- Lincoln, Carter, Reagan. The difference here is you're in the Oval Office behind the desk advocating and associating yourself with a specific sect, especially when the trend for 70 years now, right, was -- has been much more pluralistic. It was Eisenhower first used the phrase Judeo-Christian, right?

We had George W. Bush talking about the Abrahamic faith. I talked about him in the Oval Office after he read my book on Abraham. So what Trump and Hegseth together like using this crusader language to talk about destroying civilizations the name of Christ, that is really perilous when they have control this military.

And you made the point, and we were talking about it off camera, Second Chronicles like that was invoked on January 6th. And it talks about humbling yourself before a leader and that leader will save you. And in the text, it's clear as God. But Billy Graham's daughter, others have clearly said that they think that it's Trump and this Trump --

COOPER: It's not a coincidence that he is --

FEILER: That is not a coincidence. It's not accidental. It's extremely purposeful.

COOPER: What do you make of it, Gretchen?

GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: Well, the woman in charge of this wanted President Trump to read that particular scripture.

COOPER: They've been trying to find --

CARLSON: So, it was on purpose. My overarching problem with all of this is not that a president talks about being a Christian because, as Bruce says, so many have in the past. And I'm a Christian myself, so I'm fine with that.

My concern is that I believe all of this sort of equating himself to Jesus Christ is on purpose because a lot of people in the MAGA movement sort of see Trump as a savior of them, sort of as their Jesus Christ. And so I think that he is capitalizing on that by posting these memes with himself as Jesus, even though he's offended some people with that.

He just -- you just had a representative from Texas. A Republican last week when asked about it, he said, well, I think Trump is the second coming of Christ. I mean, to me, that's very scary when you're building some sort of a movement of -- well, first of all, it's sacrilegious, but it's also scary to equate the President of the United States with Jesus Christ.

COOPER: What's also interesting -- I mean, he -- you know, he had his spiritual adviser. I'm not sure how active she is actually advising him on matters of the Holy Spirit, but comparing him to Jesus, to his face with a whole bunch of faith leaders with him, none of whom seem to raise an eyebrow about it.

FEILER: You know, you and I were together when Francis was here 10 years ago. We traveled up and down the East Coast. And I often look back at that in the early fall of 2015 as kind of the last time that Trump wasn't the dominant force in every conversation. He seems to be losing his touch.

[20:50:05]

And you can see it in this battle that he has with the Pope. I mean, the two of them have a lot in common, right? They're big city American scrappers who are good at social media. But the differences are very great, right?

So you've got the character issues, obviously, economic message and now the war. But to me, the biggest difference and you allude to this, Gretchen, is that basically the Trump is continuing to lead with hate and not with love. I said on your show the night that Leo was selected, and we talked about this, that he chose that name because Leo the 13th in the 1800s, he was president. Also -- excuse me, he was Pope. Also during a period of massive change. And he created rituals that bring people together.

He's a mathematician. He will be the AI Pope. And every day, he is out there saying that as AI swarms in, there will be -- there already is this human reaction, which is to come together. I mean, you were kind enough to mention my new book, "A Time to Gather." It'll be out in a few weeks.

I can't talk about it now, but I will just say it opens with this mass baptism in the Vatican, which shows you that everyday people are coming up with new ways of connecting around the world. And the Pope is out there talking about this every day and the President is not.

And right now, the Pope is winning this battle because he has a more hopeful message and consistently in American life. Whoever has the more hopeful message wins.

COOPER: What's also interesting, because the President seems to have no problem with the Defense Secretary invoking, you know, images of a holy war, bringing evangelical Christianity into, you know, his statements about the war itself and the justification for it, which some leaders have done for years. And yet the Pope -- he doesn't want the Pope getting -- talking about the war.

CARLSON: Yes, again, I think it's part of the administration's plan to build up everyone as sort of these bigger figures and equate them to religious figures. With regard to Hegseth, look, I was completely offended last week when he did that press conference and compared journalists who are covering the Iran war to Pharisees in the Old Testament of the Bible.

I mean, the Pharisees were the enemy of Jesus at that time. So in other words, if you have the whatever to -- the guts to ask questions or you dare to, then you are the enemy of that. And let's also keep in mind that Pete Hegseth is part of the nationalist Christian movement in America, which has a lot of things that a lot of people really disagree with.

The biggest point being that they don't believe women should vote anymore. So I had a lot of problems with what he said last week, as many Americans who've been brought up in the Judeo-Christian culture should have had a problem with.

COOPER: Yes. Bruce Feiler, Gretchen Carlson, thank you so much.

CARLSON: Thank you.

COOPER: Appreciate it.

Jeff Zeleny is -- got some more information about what's going on in Virginia. Let's check in with him. Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, now CNN can project that the redistricting effort in Virginia has prevailed. That means the vote yes side, which largely will give Democrats up to four more seats in the House of Representatives, has defeated the vote no side.

You can see the numbers there on your screen. They're still coming in. And one of the reasons that we are projecting this now is that the vote in Fairfax County, which is a largely Democratic area, often slow to come in on election nights, but it's now beginning to come in.

So when you look at that, as well as the Democratic vote in other Democratic strong areas, this is what is projecting the yes side of this. Anderson, if you step back at this, really a year into this redistricting fight that the President started with the Texas effort, followed by California, and now Virginia, it really is about awash now.

And, in fact, Democrats will prevail slightly in the overall map in terms of the number of seats that have picked up. So largely the gambit that the President started about a year ago to try and help his House majority in November has been erased entirely. The enthusiasm is still on the Democratic side, there's no doubt.

There will be long-term questions about this Virginia redistricting effort going from six Democrats and five Republicans to 10 Democrats and one Republicans. But clearly, as so many voters have been mentioning to us over the weeks, fight fire with fire. So that's what Democrats did there.

So for Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader, who clearly was central to this effort to push Virginia Democrats to go to the map and really expand this as significantly, this is a major win for him. So overall, the vote yes side is going to prevail. CNN is projecting so a big deal in the midterm election fight now just six months away here in D.C., Anderson.

COOPER: Thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Up next, the parents of Hersh Goldberg-Polin, American Israeli hostage held captive for 328 days before he was executed by Hamas. They share their grief and how they are living with loss in a new episode of my podcast being released tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:55:03]

JON POLIN, FATHER OF MURDERED HOSTAGE HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: And as Hersh who helps me, I have him in my head and on my shoulder and in my ear and I think he's saying live, find joy, celebrate, dance, be happy. And I'm trying to listen to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: New episode of my podcast, "All There Is," is coming out tonight in about an hour. My guests are Rachel Goldberg-Polin and her husband, Jon. Their son, Hersh, was kidnapped and murdered by Hamas in a tunnel. Rachel and Jon sat down with me the other day. Here's part of the podcast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN, MOTHER OF MURDERED HOSTAGE HERSH GOLDBERG- POLIN: I really start my day, the first words out of my mouth are to him while I'm still in bed, before I start my morning prayers. And there's a lot of dialogue throughout the day, and he's very present. And his presence is really a comfort.

And it's a reminder of this delicious blessing of having had him. I don't associate him with the sadness, but then there's this longing, like I am hungry for him. Like I am thirsty for him. And this craving that I think intensifies, it doesn't lessen.

There are people who say, well, if you're still grieving after X amount of time, then you have a disorder. Yes, I do. And I'm really proud of it. And I thought that etymology of disorder, dis from the Latin means opposite, dis-ease or disagree, or what have you. And so disorder, I am out of order.

And my life in many ways was out of order because I buried my son. That's out of order. It's not unique. There are millions of people who have buried their children. I'm not saying I'm different. I'm just saying I have a disorder and I actually embrace it.

I'm proud that I'm feeling out of order because of the love. That's why it's so painful.

COOPER: It's a sign to you, the amount of love you have for him.

GOLDBERG-POLIN: Yes. The reason that I'm in this constant state of yearning is because of the love. The grief is a badge of love because it is the love that is continuing to grow in the absence of the person that we adore. And that's a price I'm willing to pay.

POLIN: I spend zero time trying to work on not grieving. What I work on is embracing the grieving, but also at the same time being able to smile, find joy, celebrate, et cetera. Not in place of, in addition to.

And as Hersh who helps me, I have him in my head and on my shoulder and in my ear and I think he's saying, live, find joy, celebrate, dance, be happy. And I'm trying to listen to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the full conversation is available in about an hour or so, wherever you get your podcast, we're still doing the final edits on it. Or you can watch the entire episode at CNN.com/AllThereIs in about an hour, hour and a half or so.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.