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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump: Iran Options Are A Deal Or "Blast The Hell Out Of Them"; Iranian State Media: Supreme Leader Overseeing Negotiations; The MAGA Coalition Vs. Young Dems; Artemis II Crew Talk About Their Record- Breaking Lunar Flyby & Return. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 01, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Spirit's collapse was in no small part because of the rising fuel prices from the Iran war, which made a turnaround nearly impossible.

Now, Spirit has continued to sell tickets in an effort to try to keep the company running, but doesn't seem to have been enough. Other carriers are now saying they may help Spirit ticket holders if the airline does in fact shut down, but we're perhaps only seven hours away from finding out. Thanks so much for joining us. AC360 begins now.

[20:00:33]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": And good evening from the Newsroom in our CNN Global War coverage. We begin with breaking news. The President late tonight claiming those who say the United States is not winning the war with Iran are guilty of treason, which, of course, is an offense that can be punishable by death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We get the radical left to say, we're not winning, we're not winning, they don't have any military left. It's unbelievable, it's actually I believe it's treasonous. Okay, you want to know the truth? It's treasonous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Worth noting that any other recent President, Democrat or Republican, said that it said that it would have been stunning the subject of days of consternation, recriminations. But now it is just shrugged shoulders and for some in that crowd, cheers and applause.

Earlier, the President was asked about Iran's latest proposal for negotiations sent to Pakistani mediators today. He said he's not satisfied with it and cast doubt on the country's ability to ever make a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They've made strides, but I'm not sure if they ever get there. Do you want to go blast the hell out of them and finish them forever or do we want to try and make a deal? I mean those are the options. PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Do you want to go blast the hell out of them forever?

TRUMP: I'd prefer not, on the human basis I'd prefer not but that's option, do we want to go in there heavy and just blast them away? Or do we want to do something? They're not getting along with each other and it puts us in a bad position.

One group wants to make a certain deal. The other group wants to make a certain deal, including the hardliners. The hardliners want to make a deal too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was a far more pessimistic outlook from a President who, throughout negotiations has often made claims of broad agreement from Iran, and that a peace deal is just over the horizon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This process should go very quickly, and that most of the points are already negotiated and agreed to.

REPORTER: Iran says there are significant differences.

TRUMP: Well, there could be. Let's see what happens, if there are, we'll have to straighten it out. But I don't think there's too many significant differences.

So, very important is that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon, and they've agreed to that. Iran's agreed to that, and they've agreed to it very powerfully. We have a lot of agreement with Iran.

They're agreeing with us on the plan. I mean, we asked for 15 things, and for the most part, we're going to be asking for a couple of other things.

They're talking to us and they're talking sense; they've agreed they will never have a nuclear weapon; they've agreed to that.

We have major points of agreement. I would say almost all points of agreement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The President has a continued fight with Congress over the war. Today marks the end of a 60-day period where the President can use military force without congressional authorization, under the War Powers Resolution.

Now, the law states, the President either has to seek that authorization, or he can extend operations for another 30-days if he argues that continued military action is needed to keep service members safe while withdrawing from the war.

The President has done neither. But today he sent Congress a letter which included this line "There has been no exchange of fire between United States forces and Iran since April 7, 2026. The hostilities that began on February 28, 2026 have terminated, which seems to be an echo of an argument that Defense Secretary Hegseth, made in testimony yesterday, claiming that a ceasefire stops the 60-day clock.

It is a novel interpretation of the law that's rarely, if ever, been used in the 53 years since the passage of the war powers resolution and military experts and scholars we spoke to said a military blockade is still an act of war.

One last note on U.S. Troops, the Pentagon said late tonight that the U.S. will be withdrawing roughly 5,000 troops from Germany. This comes after the President posted on social media earlier this week that that America was, "studying and reviewing, removing troops from Germany after Germany's chancellor criticized the U.S. war with Iran."

For more on President Trumps mindset and what is happening behind the scenes, I want to bring in CNN chief White House correspondent, anchor of "The Source," Kaitlan Collins. So, what are you hearing about how the President privately views what is next with Iran?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": I mean, the likelihood of talks happening again, at least in person in the near future, Anderson, seems to be very low. I mean, the President is making clear he thinks the flight to Pakistan, which has been the intermediary here, is too far. He thinks that it's disjointed and chaotic in terms of what's coming out of Iran in terms of a deal here.

He came out today when he was leaving The White House and flatly said he did not like the latest Iranian proposal, something that we still even struggled to really get insight into what that looks like.

And so, I mean, the President is making clear here where this stand. And that's the fact that there's not any progress in terms of talks going forward or having any real movement, which is quite remarkable given it was less than a week ago that we we're on the verge of having Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff go to Pakistan before the President called it off last Saturday.

And so, he's made clear he doesn't like the deal here. The latest proposal. He even floated the idea today that maybe they never reach a deal. Now, he seemed to say that as an aside, when he was answering questions from reporters. But whether or not that comes to fruition, I mean, there is a real question in terms of whether or not the Iranians can bring something to the table that the President believes this is a good offer.

[20:05:38]

COOPER: Kaitlan, thanks very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source".

Joining me now, retired Army Lieutenant General Karen Gibson, who previously served as Director of Intelligence for U.S. Central Command and CNN global affairs analyst, Brett McGurk, who served in Senior National Security positions in the last four Presidents, including President Trump's first term.

General Gibson, what is the Presidents pessimism around any deal and his vague threat to blast the hell out of him, signal to you because he's been sending a lot of, I guess, different signals.

LT. GEN. KAREN GIBSON (RET.): Well, I think it signals that whatever new proposal it is that Iran has made, and I haven't seen that I don't believe it's public is not sufficiently different from the one that they proposed last week. And last weeks was interesting, I thought, in that they sought to separate the issues of commerce and navigation from the nuclear issue.

Let's solve the Strait's and the blockade first, and then we'll talk about our nuclear program. This would if that's what we agreed, to lessen a lot of the economic pressure on them. If we continued with the ceasefire, it would also lessen the military pressure on them and allow them to enter, probably long, very long, detailed, frustrating talks about their nuclear program from a position of less coercion.

COOPER: Brett, what do you see in the Presidents statements? Because he also said his preference was not to restart the bombing campaign. What do you make of that?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think, Anderson, there's a hope that the mounting economic pressure on Iran and it is real is going to cause them to change their position at the negotiating table, particularly on the two nuclear issues, which is mainly enrichment and the disposition of that highly enriched uranium stockpile.

However, I just, in my experience, negotiating with the Iranians, Anderson, again, I think that's unlikely. This economic blockade is working is really putting pressure on the Iranians. But Iran is a big country, they have 3,000 miles of borders. They have a thousand-mile border with Iran. They have 600-mile border with Pakistan. They have the Caspian Sea, direct access to Russia.

So, they're going to work to diversify and that's going to kind of that's going to happen over the coming months. And I think they think they can outwait the President. And meanwhile, I think, on our side, the assumption that the Iranians are going to deal with the nuclear issue.

They consider it, it's a weapons program. They want optionality for a weapon. It's their main instrument of deterrence. It doesn't mean they're moving towards a weapon right now, but that's why they demand on enrichment. And as the regime is more and more under existential threat, I think it's even more unlikely they put that on the table.

It'd be rational for them to do so. They would get massive sanctions relief integrated into the global economy. But the way these guys think, I think it's unlikely. So, I think, Anderson, we have a dual blockade is at a stalemate right now and the likely course of action is one of endurance and mounting economic pressure on Iran and on the global economy.

COOPER: General Gibson, did Iran during the Iran-Iraq war, didn't they withstand a lot of economic pain over the course of the eight-year war? Not to mention the loss of a lot of human beings, a lot of their own people, and still continue fighting this war, which ultimately, they made a deal on. But it took eight years?

GIBSON: Certainly.

COOPER: I guess my question gets to is economic pain enough of a pressure point for the revolutionary guard? I don't know if the revolutionary guard or the people who are dealing with the budget. I don't know if those are two different groups.

GIBSON: So, certainly you make some great points. Iran, the Islamic Republic has shown an incredible ability to absorb pain, whether those are from kinetic shocks or economic pressure. There was also the economic pressure of the pre-JCPOA sanctions, the maximum pressure campaign of the Trump one administration. And I think we can look to other regimes like North Korea or Cuba and see that when a government feels that they are in an existential threat, as Brett has pointed out, they can withstand a tremendous amount of economic pressure.

I do agree, though, that the blockade could be effective if applied persistently. If we have the patience to continue to apply it, it's certainly going to add greater pressure and accelerate some preexisting economic conditions. It was the failing economy that drove the popular protests at the end of 2025 and 2026, but we would have to withstand disruption to the global economy through their control of the Straits of Hormuz while that blockade is ongoing, and that's a trade-off.

[20:10:17]

COOPER: Yes, Brett, I mean, is the Trump Administration's willingness to withstand economic hardship for the American people, as great as the Iranians, lack of concern for their people and willingness to withstand have their people have economic hardship?

MCGURK: It's a great question, I think both sides are potentially misreading each other. The Iranians, I think, believe that the economic pressure globally will cause the President to back off. And we believe, again, there's a kind of a short-term path to the Iranians capitulating at the negotiating table. You know, if we can sustain this for a period of many, many months, Anderson, that's a big "if", if we can sustain this, I think it can be quite effective over time.

Theres a lot happening behind the scenes, the kind of diversification away from the Strait of Hormuz, building new pipelines, building new infrastructure south of the Strait of Hormuz. This is all happening now, but that's going to take a period of years, really. So over time, Iran's position, I think, will degrade significantly. But again, it's a, as we've been talking about, Anderson, from the first week of this war, it's two clocks.

And the Iranians are prepared to really wait this out. There's always a chance, though, this economic pressure bites. You have uprisings again, as we saw earlier this year. But I would put that right now in a minority case scenario. I don't think it's likely in the near term. COOPER: General Gibson, just briefly, we mentioned that while the President called the war powers resolution totally unconstitutional, his administration appears to be making an effort to at least acknowledge the law in that letter to congressional leaders.

GIBSON: Yes, and I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert, but I do understand that international law says that imposing a blockade on another nation is an act of war. So, there would be interpretations of war that do not involve kinetic strikes, certainly.

COOPER: General Gibson, appreciate it, Brett McGurk as well, thanks very much.

Up next, the President has mentioned a couple of times that Iran has no cards to play. Thomas Friedman of "The New York Times" disagrees. We'll get his take on that ahead.

And later, my conversation with the Artemis II crew, the entire crew back from their history making mission around the moon. They join me tonight. What they have to say about their nearly ten days in space and captured all of our attention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINA KOCH, ARTEMIS II MISSION SPECIALIST: Seeing the Earth and the moon in the same picture, you just realize how vibrant it is and what an oasis it is. And then honestly, missing the moon as we left these beautiful views, as happy as we we're to be returning home, there was a part of us that was left there, I would say, because of what we got to see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:59]

COOPER: Welcome back, our breaking news. President Trump says he's not satisfied with Iran's latest proposal to end the war, going so far as to say he's not sure they'll ever be an agreement, I should say, between the two nations.

It's unclear if the President plans to try other strategies, diplomatic or military, to get a deal. He previously suggested Iran doesn't have any leverage in negotiations, quoting him on social media last month, the Iranians don't seem to realize they have no cards, he said the same thing about Ukraine. As our next guest pointed out in an article recently.

Joining me now is "New York Times" opinion columnist and best-selling author Thomas Friedman, whose books include hot, flat and crowded, and whose latest column is titled "Trump is The One Without the Cards at the Poker Table."

So, you essentially are arguing, Tom, in your piece, that the President doesn't have the leverage he thinks he has with Iran. And this comes, as the President today said, he's not happy with Iran's new peace proposal. How likely do you think it is that Trump will get a favorable outcome in this war?

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, "NEW YORK TIMES" FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST: Well, Anderson, if I think back on conversations, you might have had since the start of the Ukraine War, what have we seen that basically, Ukraine is to Russia, what Hamas and Hezbollah are to Israel, what Iran is to the United States. That is these are small powers and militias, using asymmetric tools, particularly drones to basically resist and nullify, not defeat, but to leave themselves standing against much larger powers.

Trump said Ukraine has no cards. Ukraine is basically winning the war now against Russia. Israel believed it had eliminated his with its major attack, Hezbollah is using even more sophisticated drones against Israel from South Lebanon after being hammered again by Israel.

And of course, we've seen what Iran has been able to do, not only against American forces, but against American protected Gulf states, knocking out data centers for Amazon and many oil facilities.

So, we are in an age here of asymmetric warfare now. And this is not the kind of card game that Donald Trump has ever played before.

COOPER: You also point out that the future of this asymmetric warfare is only going to get faster and more potentially deadly on a on a global scale because of A.I., yes, artificial intelligence.

FRIEDMAN Well, you know, just think of the asymmetrical warfare we had in the age of, in the information age, the age of computers and smartphones. And so, with this phone, we saw Ukrainians able to use their GPS in this phone to direct an airstrike against our drone strike against some Russian forces in the forest, behind their homes. So that's the information age tools. We are now entering. What my tech tutor, Craig calls the age of intelligence tools.

Now, these age of intelligence tools, you just need to instruct it. Please create a virus that will attack only people whose initials are A.C. and work for CNN and it will do the rest. Please hack, you know, this system. It will do the rest.

[20:20:23]

Now, we've seen this with Anthropic's Mythos and ChatGPT's also latest system, they're now holding back these systems, except for the most trusted and critical software and operating system providers, but they're already leaking.

And so, that's why, I mean, Trump is not wrong. Iran is a malign actor. The way he's gone about the war has been wrong. No allies, no planning, no scenario planning ahead of time. But the thought of these new tools now coming onto the market, these new, hugely asymmetric tools that would be available to a malign actor like Iran, not to mention any other group in the world. I think it's a -- we're at a very critical phase change right now in the world of technology and warfare. COOPER: When you hear the President, as he did today, say, he considers it treasonous for people to say that the U.S. isn't winning the war. What do you -- what's your reaction to that?

FRIEDMAN: It's just not helpful, it's not serious. You know, the most effective thing for the President to do is rather than lecture people on why they're being treasonous by not declaring that he's winning, is bringing Congress in, bring the allies in.

It's not like he doesn't have a case. Iran getting a nuclear weapon will be terrible. Unfortunately, everything he's done so far, may actually hasten that prospect from the Iranian point of view. But he's made no effort to bring in our allies. He's made no effort to call in the Democrats, have a serious conversation, not sending Hegseth up to the Congress to insult people in the moronic way he does that.

You know, there's a serious conversation to be had, Anderson. That's why I'm not really happy with the German Chancellor when he says, you know, the Iranians are humiliating you. It may in fact be true, but this is going to affect Europe, too.

We need to be serious about this, but you need to be serious from the very beginning, you need to plan this in a way and Trump did not do that. And he's now paying a price and lecturing people for not being patriotic enough is not going to help them.

COOPER: Tom Friedman, thanks very much. I encourage everyone to read your article in "The Times" thanks very much.

Up next, is the war in Iran alienate some members of the Presidents base. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan looks at how some young Democrats are seeking to leverage that and make a political ground by emulating the strategy the late Charlie Kirk employed at college campuses around the country.

Also, later tonight, my chat with the Artemis II crew today about their historic mission to the moon, the videos and photos they captured, and some moments that will stick with them forever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID WISEMAN, ARTEMIS II MISSION COMMANDER: I think one of the most striking things for me was as you start to see the far side, you realize how different the near side of the Earth is, or of the moon from the far side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:27:36]

COOPER: More signs tonight that President Trump's approval rating is taking a hit over the war in Iran, among other issues. A new Pew Research Poll matching other polling earlier this week shows the President's job approval is at 34 percent, the lowest point of his second term.

Tonight, Donie O'Sullivan explores how some young Democrats are hoping to capitalize on that by engaging in debate and generating social media moments the way the late Charlie Kirk did for conservatives. Here's what he found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about the current war in Iran?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think you're going to find many Gen Z people that are super pro war in Iran.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The MAGA coalition --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wrong to support Donald Trump. That was a big mistake.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): -- is struggling.

JULIAN BECERRA, INFLUENCER: I was one of those guys back in 2020, 2024 not proud of it, man enough to say it.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): A key part of that coalition was young voters, particularly young men.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people I knew who just voted for Trump because they thought it was cool. Now just being like, I can't stand the guy.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): And the key to them was Charlie Kirk. His Turning Point USA juggernaut was a fixture on college campuses --

CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: What is a woman?

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): --with his proved me wrong debates.

KIRK: What species is the baby in the womb?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a human.

KIRK: Therefore, they should have human rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it's an embryo.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): But since he was killed --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charlie was the glue that held the conservative movement together.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): "Turning Point USA" has struggled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since he has passed, there's been a lot of division.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): And sensing an opportunity, groups on the left and on the right are trying to fill Kirk's place.

On this sparsely staged set, a group of Democrats are trying to catch up.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Where are we? What is this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, this is going to be destiny versus probably five to six turning point students.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): "UNF#CK America" was set up last year as a Democratic alternative to "Turning Point USA." Their plan was to show up to turning point events to try to debate Charlie Kirk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won't you debate me, Charlie?

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): While debate is important--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a five count down.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): --the real priority are clips. Snippets of debates that are cut up and shared all over the internet. It's something Charlie Kirk mastered, and it's what UNF#CK America are trying to do here today with Destiny, a streamer, an online debater who has millions of followers online and who has joined the UNF#CK campaign.

[20:30:02]

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): How important are clips?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that's the most important thing ever. Because I think one of the biggest issues that the Democrats have had is that they don't understand how to take advantage of the attention economy. When we go places, it's like the viral moments don't come to us, we create them.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Trying to emulate Charlie Kirk UNF#CK America, have started a campus debate tour of their own, and today they've come to ASU in Tempe, Arizona. This is Turning Point's backyard where Kirk built his empire. The group's headquarters is only a few miles away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to let you know that we're not allowed to film in this area.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But it started to become clear that -- America's event was not going to happen here today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I'm outside of the Turning Point USA headquarters right now?

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Convinced that Turning Point had something to do with the campus event cancellation, the group thought of another way of making some viral content.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Erika Kirk here? Would there be any way --. We are being censored, we want to know why.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Inside, far-right provocateur Jack Posobiec was broadcasting his show live. Posobiec has a long history of promoting conspiracy theories like Pizzagate.

JACK POSOBIEC, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: I'm literally doing a show right now, dude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. There's -- you know, the un-F America guys, so they're outside right now.

POSOBIEC: Wait. They're outside? They're here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Right outside the gate.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It seemed like Posobiec also thought that this would be good content.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, everybody. Brian Shapiro here in front of the official Turning Point headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Un -- America tour was canceled at ASU.

POSOBIEC: Hey, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for coming out.

POSOBIEC: Let's go. You're in 47, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These guys.

POSOBIEC: So, what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just a little frustrated because we agree on agree on freedom of speech, what Charlie Kirk stood for, right?

POSOBIEC: Yes.

ANDREW KOLVET, TPUSA SPOKESPERSON: I didn't know you guys were coming until I heard that there was, like I got a press inquiry about it saying, did we have anything to do with it? And yes, we did, so.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): While online the rhetoric was heated, in person it became a respectful conversation of the day's politics, even a photo op.

O'SULLIVAN: And they've been debating for like more than an hour now. None of them want to be seen to be walking away from the debate. I'm desperately hoping they end it. It's 110 degrees.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Despite their ASU setback, Un -- America held an event the following week in UCLA where there would be more heated debate and yes, clips. After all, agreement just isn't as profitable.

(END VIDEOTAPE) O'SULLIVAN: And Anderson, from reporting this story out, we really got a sense, a reminder of just how pivotal a role Charlie Kirk played in keeping that young MAGA coalition together. Of course, we've seen over the past few months, particularly on the online podcast space, many of those people who speak to younger viewers, so many former Trump supporters breaking with the president on Iran.

And you heard a young student there at the start of the piece asking Vice President J.D. Vance, what are we going to do now? Who is going to hold this movement together and really get the sense that Turning Point USA is struggling right now. They are trying to find somebody who can, in some way, try and fill Kirk's shoes, both as a unifier, but also somebody who can draw those massive crowds on college campuses that can then be turned into viral clips. So I think this is all something very important to be watching as we go into the midterms and, of course, into 2028. Anderson?

COOPER: Yes, Donie O'Sullivan. Thanks so much, Donie.

Next, my conversation today with the Artemis II crew and their historic trip around the moon, breaking the space travel record and how their work could impact new missions going forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:33:39]

VICTOR GLOVER, ARTEMIS II PILOT: We have all of these different experiences and backgrounds that flew the vehicle and everyone had notes and comments about how it flew. And that's important because we can make sure that for future missions, all of the folks in the astronaut office are going to be able to safely fly this vehicle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new chapter of the exploration of our celestial neighbor is complete. Integrity's astronauts back on Earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, it has been three weeks since that incredible moment. And this fist bumps and thumbs up from the Artemis II crew when their capsule was opened after their successful splashdown in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of San Diego. The crew made history, traveling around the Moon, returning to Earth, covering nearly 700,000 miles during their nearly 10-day mission, going further in space than humans have ever been before, surpassing the Apollo 13 record set in 1970. I had the privilege of talking with all four astronauts today, Mission Commander Reid Wiseman, Pilot Victor Glover, and Mission Specialists Christina Koch and Jeremy Hansen.

First of all, it's incredible to meet you. I feel like I mean, I'm sure everybody feels like they know you because we all watched you so closely. Congratulations. Reid, you'd said it's hard to grasp what you all went through on the mission. And obviously, it's been a whirlwind ever since. Have you had time? Have all of you had time to kind of just decompress and think about it?

WISEMAN: We've definitely taken some time. We've taken some time by ourselves. We've taken some time with our families. But this is it's a process. And it's going to continue to take more time, like the outpouring of support from around the world and the amount of thanks we have to give back to the agencies that made this possible. It's going to take time.

COOPER: I want to show some of the amazing images that you've captured on Reid on your phone. You did the Earth setting behind the Moon. And I love that this was just like you with your iPhone, I assume, or whatever.

WISEMAN: I found myself without a job as Earth was disappearing behind the moon. And Christina and Victor were both doing scientific imagery at this point in time. And Jeremy and I were sort of free float. And I went up to our little tiny docking hatch window, which is it's no bigger than that, Anderson. And I held the -- I couldn't really even get my eye up there, but I could get the camera, the phone up there. I was like, oh, my goodness gracious, I have got to hit record.

[20:40:08]

COOPER: So what is that? That is -- that's Earth's setting behind the Moon.

WISEMAN: As we call it, that is tiny Earth. And it is beautiful. And it is setting behind the far side of the Moon.

COOPER: You described it as like watching the sunset at the beach from the most foreign seat in the cosmos.

WISEMAN: I mean, I tried hard to give that description. It's about the best I could come up with.

COOPER: Did it ever -- did you ever get used to the images you were seeing outside?

GLOVER: No, no.

KOCH: We never did. You know, the Earth got smaller and the moon got bigger. But more importantly, the Moon would shift in terms of what we could see on it. And one of the first things that we noticed that we knew we were in for a treat was about the third day we had a view of the Moon and it looked almost right. But it wasn't the moon we had seen our entire lives.

We were starting to see the far side and it just got more and more amazing seeing the Earth and the moon in the same picture. You just realize how vibrant it is and what an oasis it is. And then honestly, missing the Moon as we left these beautiful, these beautiful views, as happy as we were to be returning home. There was a part of us that was left there, I would say, because of what we got to see.

COOPER: But the moon you saw is better than the Moon we see. I mean, you saw like the best of the Moon ever.

WISEMAN: What we did, we got to see about 18 percent of the far side and we saw areas that were never seen by human eyes during Apollo. So we were the first four humans to see Oriental Basin, to see some of these areas on the far side and to be able to correlate them to the near side in our own minds. And I think one of the most striking things for me was as you start to see the far side, you realize how different the near side of the Earth is or of the Moon from the far side.

COOPER: Really?

WISEMAN: And you can tell that just the presence of planet Earth pulling on the near side of the Moon has created a totally different texture and structure than the far side. The far side is all basins and meteor strikes.

COOPER: So like this, you came in when you came into the studio, this is the dark -- this is the far side.

WISEMAN: This is the far side.

COOPER: And so what these kind of -- these are boulder craters?

WISEMAN: You can see that this dark area in the upper right is Oriental Basin. And then you see these kind of streaks over behind Christina here. And those are just where boulders from Oriental got ejected and ran themselves across the lunar surface. And then there's a very old, old crater here, Hertzsprung, that we studied a lot. These are like all our friends now. It's like a family reunion behind us.

GLOVER: You mentioned something earlier, though, about we have a different view. And you said better. And I actually want to connect them. So here's the thing. It's like saying a front of the quarter is better than the back or the back is better than the front.

They are one thing. And there's a picture almost in the center. When you look at that crater, that's Ohm. And from Ohm, you can see rays. When you zoom out, we can see rays after the impact. Pieces of ejecta went on all the way to the near side. So when you look up and see the Moon, some of the things that we see, some of those features run all the way around to the far side. So they're connected.

COOPER: Wow. That's cool. So I just want to play the video. When you returned, there's this great video. It's released later. So maybe a lot of people didn't see Navy divers opening up the hatch. You can just feel the excitement, their excitement, your excitement. Some of the astronauts who we had on were talking about sometimes when they had returned from space and the doors open, some of the like the crew who first opened the door were like, oh, it's kind of a little ripe smell. How did it smell in there?

GLOVER: Well, you have to ask them. But I imagine after 10 days without a shower, we were a lot more excited than they were.

WISEMAN: It was one of the first questions we asked them. They said it smelled OK.

KOCH: They say that to everyone, I think. There's no way it did.

COOPER: Michael Collins, during the Apollo 11 mission, second person ever to orbit the Moon alone, wrote about the experience. He said, I am alone now, truly alone and absolutely isolated from any known life. I am it. Obviously, you were all together. But can you talk a little bit about the moment you lose communications with mission control, you lose sight of Earth and you're taking in this part of the Moon that, as you said, many have never seen before?

GLOVER: Yes, you know, it actually you just we all read "Carrying the Fire" by Michael Collins before the mission. And it just puts that into perspective after being there and having the four of them at that moment when we lose communication with the Earth after that Earth set, we were out of communication.

And I was very glad to have three of my closest friends up there with me. So what Michael Collins went through is even I just understand it at a deeper level now. But it also was a very busy time. This is when we would get closest to the Moon and not long after that, farthest from the Earth. And so this is when we made some of our best observations of what we were seeing up close. And so we took a minute to observe, but then we went right back to work.

COOPER: Reid, I just want to play the beautiful moment that your colleagues honored your late wife, Carroll, during the mission. Let's just play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:44:58]

JEREMY HANSEN, ARTEMIS II MISSION SPECIALIST: We lost a loved one. Her name was Carroll, the spouse of Reid, the mother of Katie and Ellie. And if you want to find this one, you look at Gloucester and it's just to the northwest of that, at the same latitude as home. And it's a bright spot on the Moon. And we would like to call it Carroll. And you spell that C-A-R-R-O-L-L.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I mean, it is such a beautiful moment. Christina, it was actually your, I understand, your idea?

KOCH: It was. We were in a geology class and it was very close to our new launch date. So it was a little bit of a geology refresher training. And they actually mentioned, I think, for the first time that I can really recall this option about potentially naming something. And I thought for a minute about how what we could potentially do and our spouses. We all know about the famous Mount Maryland that Jim Lovell named for his wife. I thought about one for my husband. Not special enough. WISEMAN: Jim Lovell.

KOCH: It just exactly these amazing people that helped us on our mission. And the second I thought about the most special thing that we could do, I immediately knew that I had to bring it up. So these two helped me think it through. And Jeremy got it over the finish line.

COOPER: When you see the Moon, I mean, talk about looking at the Moon differently. I mean, for you, your kids, for you, the Moon now must look different in this way as well.

WISEMAN: I've thought about that a lot. I mean, for sure, for my kids, that's the honor of a lifetime, I think. I'd have to ask them. But since we've been back the -- from Earth, the left side of the Moon has not been in sunlight yet. So we haven't seen that area of the moon where that crater is, where we flew around to the far side. But here in the next few days, that is coming into view. I think actually tonight is the first time we'll be able to see that left, that west limb or for us, the east when you're looking at it from behind the Moon. So it'll be very special to go out.

COOPER: We're going to say in a world where a lot of people don't talk about loss and don't talk about grief, it's so meaningful to have you all doing that. And in this moment where the whole world is watching. And I just thought it was really incredible.

WISEMAN: I will tell you, Anderson, it forged the crew like that moment really did forge us together in a way I don't think anything else really could have. It was a very special moment.

COOPER: Yes. I want to play something you said, Christina, after radio communication was reestablished after the spacecraft emerged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: We will explore. We will build. We will build ships. We will visit again. We will construct science outposts. We will drive rovers. We will do radio astronomy. We will found companies. We will bolster industry. We will inspire. But ultimately, we will always choose Earth. We will always choose each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Well, thank you.

COOPER: You didn't just come up with that.

KOCH: I did.

COOPER: Did you really?

KOCH: Thanks to this guy. He asked me to say the words when we came back, what we call AOS, acquisition of signal. And we had talked about when in the mission we were going to commemorate milestones. That wasn't the one I was assigned.

So I was not ready. And I panic wrote it in my head as I was observing craters, the ones I was trying to observe.

COOPER: How long did you have to write that?

KOCH: About 10 minutes.

COOPER: Wow, that's good.

KOCH: And I scribbled it on my kneeboard. My computer broke in space. So I carried around a paper kneeboard on my leg the entire time. And I scribbled it down.

WISEMAN: And I still remember you giving that that right there. And I was floating kind of behind the displays up above you. And you were down on seat two, still looking out the window. And you were watching when we had acquisition of signal. And I could sense that --

KOCH: I was terrified.

WISEMAN: Yes, it was. And then as you started going and you were just listing off these things we were going to do. And then we will always see each other. I just -- it was just numb.

KOCH: Well, one, I'd like to apologize to the science teams because my observations of the moon in that little space of time might have been a little compromised. But I sat deeply with it for a minute. And, you know, I think this is a personal thing. What drives us to explore space? And for some, it is this idea of colonization, reaching out. And that has never struck me.

For me, the reason to explore is to bring back an appreciation of what we have and to treasure this lifeboat that we all share. And I wanted to make sure somehow to convey that in the moment that we were able to see everything we've ever known again for the first time.

COOPER: Yes. It, well, you knocked it out of the park, out of the universe, really. Well, more of my conversation with the Artemis crew ahead, including what it was like piloting the Orion spacecraft, something they all took turns doing. And what it was like reentering the Earth's atmosphere at nearly 40 times the speed of sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:50:02]

HANSEN: You see this fireball forming around you at the windows. And --

COOPER: Do you know how fast is that per minute? I mean, do you know?

HANSEN: Yes.

WISEMAN: Per second. Six miles per second.

COOPER: Get out of here. Six miles per second.

WISEMAN: Yes. COOPER: Wow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:55:25]

COOPER: More now in the history breaking Artemis II mission around the Moon and the risky and successful return to Earth. Here's part two of my conversation with mission commander Reid Wiseman, pilot Victor Glover, and mission specialists Christina Koch and Jeremy Hansen.

Jeremy, you're the first crew to experience returning to Earth at, correct me if I'm wrong, nearly 25,000 miles per hour. So what -- does it -- it doesn't -- do you have a sense of how fast you are going?

HANSEN: You do. And as you approach Earth before you can actually perceive the speed of the vehicle increasing because Earth is pulling you back. It is accelerating you. And by the time we hit the atmosphere, we're doing 39 times the speed of sound and you're seeing it here. And then you see this fireball forming around you at the windows.

COOPER: And do you know how fast is that per minute? I mean, do you?

HANSEN: Yes.

WISEMAN: Per second. Six miles per second.

COOPER: Get out of here. Six miles per second.

WISEMAN: Yes.

COOPER: Wow. You all got to pilot the Orion spacecraft briefly. Very few astronauts, as I understand it, get the chance to fly a new vehicle for the first time. Why was, what was it like? Do you have any notes on how it drives? Why was that important for everybody to do it?

GLOVER: We -- it was important because we're going to do more complex missions where we'll dock with a lander and get crews, you know, the four person crew will split up into two and two, two in Orion and two in a lander made by two of our partners, Blue Origin and SpaceX. And that'll get us to the surface.

So that was a very important test objective. And our crew had a unique opportunity. We've got folks who are graduates of government sponsored test pilot schools, but we've got an engineer in a high performance jet pilot. And we have all of these different experiences and backgrounds that flew the vehicle and everyone had notes and comments about how it flew. And that's important because we can make sure that for future missions, all of the folks in the astronaut office are going to be able to safely fly this vehicle.

COOPER: Every astronaut I've met is just extraordinary. Generally, I mean, I'm not just like sucking up to you all. Every astronaut just has such interesting backgrounds and such like diversity of life experiences that they bring to it. And the fact that there is this government agency and that you do these things, it's just incredible. Like, it's really impressive. I mean, I -- there's no question here, I'm just --

KOCH: It's the honor and privilege of a lifetime. It's also the responsibility of a lifetime. And sometimes I think that in a way, the best ambassadors of humanity are the ones who experienced it broadly. So we've all tried to pick up as many human experiences along the way and carry them forward as we can.

GLOVER: Can I add a facet to this though? You know, people read the resumes and sometimes pull off those accomplishments and think you're this walking string of successes. The thing about the folks in the astronaut, I know a guy who keeps a journal of everything he is messed up. That takes -- that's an insane amount of self-awareness.

And so I would say they're incredibly hardworking, but it is also one of the best teams I've ever been on. I've been in the military almost 30 years and the astronaut office is just a unique, but very diverse group of people that makes mistakes. But we also have a ton of grace and mercy in the office and we take care of each other and we help each other get better.

COOPER: I love the idea of an astronaut office. Like you're all walking around as astronauts.

WISEMAN: If you'll let me just take a second here. We also have to honor the team that had the courage to push the button and send us off the planet because they -- the safe thing for them to do, the responsible thing for them to do would have been to not launch four human beings who have families, who have loved ones and not send us a quarter million miles away. But they had the courage and the trust in the machine that they built to launch us. And we've gotten to see a few of our friends this week. And it's -- like that I think when you ask how are we processing this post flight so far? It's starting to dawn on me that we connected with the world. We had a lot of we had a lot of fun, we had a lot of responsibility on our shoulders. But these people had us on their shoulders and they carried a heavy burden while we were up there and we just have the deepest respect for that team.

COOPER: Yes. Well, I feel like we needed this as a country as a human race and I'm just so honored to meet you all and thank you. Really appreciate it.

GLOVER: Thank you. And we all have a responsibility to keep it going.

COOPER: Yes, amen. Thank you.

That's it for us. Have a great weekend. The news continues The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.

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