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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Iranian Drone Attack Caused Fire At Oil Port; Ceasefire And Peace Talks Being Tested As U.S. And Iran Trade Shots. TRUMP: U.S. Will Guide Ships Throughout Strait Of Hormuz; Ceasefire & Peace Talks Being Tested As U.S. & Iran Trade Shots; Intel Report: Security Increased Around Putin Amid Assassination & Coup Fears; Russia Declares Victory Day Ceasefire For May 8-9; Zelenskyy Counters Russia's Victory Day Ceasefire With New Date; 3 Cruise Ship Passengers Dead, Others Sick After Suspected Hantavirus Outbreak; NTSB Investigation Underway After Airplane Clips Truck & Light Pole. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 04, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Protester tried to jump the fence and make his way on to the red carpet. He was quickly tackled by police and taken away.

Now, as for Bezos, we've seen Lauren Sanchez Bezos out here tonight, but still no sign of Bezos himself out here on the carpet. We'll have to wait and see if he eventually shows up, but still no sign of the billionaire -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Interesting, all right, thank you very much, Jason Carroll. And thanks so much as always to all of you. We'll see you back here tomorrow.

AC360 with Anderson begins now.

[20:00:37]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom. Topping our CNN Global War coverage tonight. There was a ceasefire, now there's shots fired.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

COOPER: That is new video of the Iranian drone strike today on the Port City of Fujairah in the UAE. That's an oil terminal you see burning there. It is especially significant because of where it's located, which allows the Emiratis to export oil while avoiding the Strait of Hormuz. That's a point obviously not lost on Tehran. About seven miles off the coast from their tanker reported being hit on and on fire. According to the British security clearinghouse, U.L. Maritime Trade Operations.

For its part, Central Command says American forces, "blew up" six small Iranian boats in the Strait. All of which raises the obvious question and the President was asked it late today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HUGH HEWITT, HOST OF "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": Is the cease fire over,

Mr. President, is it over, are we going to hit him tonight?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I can't tell you that.

HEWITT: All right, that's fine.

TRUMP: You wouldn't, if I answered that question, then you'll say this man is not smart enough to be in the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Those weren't the Presidents only words on the subject. Earlier today, talking to Fox News, he warned that Iranian forces would be, "blown off the face of the earth," if they try to target American ships in the Strait of Hormuz of the Persian Gulf, and at a small business conference this afternoon, he sounded pleased with the way things were going.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're doing record business. We have a stock market that hit even with this military operation. Call it whatever you want. We can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon. We had all new highs, and I said, we have to take care of business because we can't let that happen. So, we did a little detour, and it's working out very nicely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was the President today also saying that from a military standpoint, Iran is, "essentially finished," even though, as you saw at the top, there was fresh evidence today but essentially is not the same as actually. This all follows the launch of an administration initiative called Project Freedom, which began today and is aimed at defending ships transiting the Strait against Iranian missiles, drones and small boats.

Late today, the Danish shipping company Maersk confirmed that one of their ships, the Alliance Fairfax, transited the strait under U.S. protection, one of two to make that passage today.

With that said, the pre-war number is more than a hundred, and the amount of oil going through the Strait is still essentially zero. Still, the President today sounded upbeat on fuel prices.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Everybody was wrong, they thought that energy would be at $300.00, right? $300.00 a barrel and it's like at $100 and I think going down and I see it going down very substantially when this is over, Chris. And I think, I think very rapidly too at levels that you've never seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: The Chris he's referring to is Energy Secretary, Chris Wright.

And just for perspective, his own department, semi-independent Bureau, the energy information administration estimates that oil prices will remain above pre-war levels into next year.

The estimate is built on the assumption the conflict would not last through April, which it has. Oil today hit $114.00 a barrel, and a gallon of gas now stands at $4.46, up almost $1.50 since the war began.

We begin tonight with CNN senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes. So, Kristen, what are you hearing from your sources about how the administration is viewing the state of the cease fire right now?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're talking to sources who are working with the administration. And I want to read you a quote from one regional source. This is what they said at the current state of play. They said, "It is very bad and messy at the moment" and you can almost see that through what President Trump is saying in that same interview where he talked about how he wasn't going to answer questions about the ceasefire, he said, militarily, the war in Iran was essentially over.

Now, one thing you have to keep in mind here is that he wrote a letter to Congress essentially saying that he didn't have to ask Congress for any permission because all of the military action had been halted. So that's likely to play a factor into whether or not he is going to continue those strikes, which, of course, will open up a whole new door when it comes to the War Powers Act.

They have been really relying on this idea that the ceasefire ended the war. Therefore, they don't have to get Congress involved. Now, it wasn't just in that interview where he refused to answer about the ceasefire. We were standing just feet from him while he was exiting an event, asking him the question. Several reporters, he looked at us and he walked away.

Several other reporters had calls with him today in which he refused to answer this question about the ceasefire. Now, when I talked to these U.S. officials, they maintain that there are still conversations happening behind closed doors and that President Trump is looking for an off ramp here. But, Anderson, we're in a situation now in which it's not just the rhetoric between the two sides, and they can point to it and saying Iran is saying something different behind closed doors.

There are actually shots being fired. There's fire being exchanged. And so, this idea that you can kind of be mute when it comes to the cease fire and not answer those questions. Well, it's not really realistic, particularly as were seeing these other countries, these American allies, getting hit by some of this fire.

[20:05:44]

In fact, President Trump at one point talked about the missiles saying, well, most of them were intercepted, only one got through. Well, to the people who are intercepting them, this still certainly feels as though the cease fire has been broken. And President Trump clearly trying to figure out a way to talk about this, which won't lead to another escalation.

COOPER: Kristen Holmes, thanks very much from the White House.

Joining me here in the Newsroom is retired army Lieutenant General Karen Gibson, who previously served as Director of Intelligence for U.S. Central Command and former Republican Congressman, retired Air Force National Guard Lieutenant Colonel Adam Kinzinger. He's also the author of a brand-new children's book titled "That's What Heroes Do. Also with us is former State Department Official Alan Eyre, who was a key member of President Obama's negotiating team for the 2015 Iran nuclear agreement, which, of course, President Trump pulled out of.

General Gibson, I mean, sinking Iranian boats, is the ceasefire broken?

LT. GEN. KAREN GIBSON (RET), U.S. ARMY: Oh, that's, you know, that's a trick question.

COOPER: Is it?

GIBSON: It is, it is because sometimes in any ceasefire, there may be pot shots, you know, fire that's exchanged across the line of control. And it's really typically up to policy makers and politicians and diplomats who have established a ceasefire for a reason, often to do negotiation, to say the ceasefire is holding or not.

This is a lot, you know, frankly, the strike on the port in Fujairah, sinking fast boats. But saying it's a lot for a ceasefire, but it's really up to, I think, the governments of the United States and Iran to say, all right, this isn't working. You know, were done, we're back at it.

COOPER: Congressman, it is a sign, though, of the kind of warfare that were seeing or the capabilities of Iran, that it's small boats we saw, and also a drone strike. I mean, those are things which no matter how much, how successful the U.S. has been depleting, you know, Iranian's missiles and things like that, those small boats, those drones, those are very hard to eliminate.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, this is this is warfare in the 21st century. It's, you know, something that we should be learning even more from places like Ukraine and what they're dealing with, which is we can have big ships, awesome fast airplanes. Those are good to have; there's nothing wrong with that. But the war, the game has changed. And I think we have to take that very seriously.

And we have to understand that when the administration says things like, well, we've won because we've depleted their missile capability, well, look, we've also depleted our missile stockpiles, but ultimately, they have missiles. They have toys to keep the regime in power. And what has happened so far, they've kept the regime in power.

And so, I think we need to be very clear about the challenges ahead, about how this could end up. And we're not in the best place, I would say, right now.

COOPER: I wonder, what do you make? I mean, just like, you know, the U.S. during Vietnam talked about body counts a lot. And, you know, land taken or villages seized, number of villages. And then it would overnight, it would change. It didn't, no matter the body count, it didn't end up being victory on the battlefield. Do you think the metrics that the U.S. is using, which seems to be the number of missiles hit a number of, you know, infrastructure destroyed is the right one?

GIBSON: Certainly, it's, certainly not that's not the right one. I think you have to be careful with the metrics that you're measuring. And here I think the metric, even though today was a tactical success of getting those vessels out of the Strait, the metric ought to be the return to normal commercial operations.

So, the metric ought to be the number of insurers and shipping companies that feel comfortable and safe and are willing to transit the Strait. And, you know, commercial confidence is really the center of gravity. And as you've just said, you know, having an ability to raise the perception of risk is all that Iran needs to do to tube that commercial confidence.

COOPER: Alan, I mean, you have experience in negotiating table. It's very different right now because the President keeps saying negotiations are being done telephonically. It's hard to know what is actually occurring. In your experience, do back channel negotiations or telephonic negotiations, even when tensions rise, and the two sides are actively firing at one another, do those continue?

ALAN EYRE, DISTINGUISHED DIPLOMATIC FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Yes, they do continue and to an extent, the medium doesn't matter. What's the primary importance is the intent.

You know, if both sides are seeking a negotiated solution, you can do it in person. You can do it by phone. You can send candy grams. It doesn't matter. The problem here is that neither side still really wants to negotiate.

They're both wrestlers and they're still trying to get that hold that will allow them to pin the other person. That's not going to happen. And the quicker each side realizes there is no military victory, then perhaps we can steer our way to a negotiated solution. Barring that, this looks like a frozen conflict, which, with the Strait being closed, is really not where we want to be heading.

[20:10:34]

COOPER: A frozen conflict in that neither side can win, neither side, it's kind of status quo as it is right now.

EYRE: I mean, both sides are losing. I mean, obviously, Project Freedom, as the General said, is not going to reopen the Strait. It's performative at best, trying to, you know, to soothe the markets. And the key dynamic here is every day the Strait remains closed. It gets worse and worse. So that has to be the focus of negotiations. Evidently, that's what Iran is seeking. First round of negotiations, dealing with the Strait and the blockade, and then segueing to the issue of the nuclear issue and a relaxation of sanctions. But again, neither side wants to play.

COOPER: Congressman, do you think that the administration basically got into this thinking it would have been over by now?

KINZINGER: Yes, hundred percent. One thing I want to point out too, imagine leaving one of these ports and riding your bicycle to wherever you're going to, because these tankers travel at the speed of a bicycle. So, that's how long it's going to take even when it reopens. I think, I think clearly, I mean, on day two, the President said, we've won. We've basically won. He made no effort, two days prior to the launch of the war, was the State of the Union Address barely a line mentioned this.

So, I think the reason he didn't prepare the public battlefield, if you will, or do information operations, is because they thought they would decapitate the Iranian regime. And to his credit, there had just been a massive, you know, protest in the streets, right, with thousands and thousands of people but it just didn't materialize.

COOPER: General, just in terms of the, the freedom of the navigation in the Strait, I mean, is that only going to be determined through negotiations?

GIBSON: Well, I think today's transit wasn't determined through negotiations. It was determined --

COOPER: But I mean, in the regular course of reopening --

GIBSON: I think that would be unacceptable to the United States and most of our allies if every ship that passed through the Strait had to negotiate with Iran. You know, this is the whole objection to them charging a toll. And so, we've demonstrated the feasibility, but it is expensive. Although the U.S., the President, did express the possibility of both the U.S. and Iran jointly charging a toll.

GIBSON: Yes, it is a shame, you know, in the way the Congressman talked about that, we didn't rally the American people prior, it's also a shame that unlike our other interventions in Iraq, whether it was to liberate Kuwait or to overthrow Saddam Hussein or frankly, in Afghanistan, that we didn't have a coalition of other nations that are willing to assist. Imagine if we had many flotillas that were willing to escort vessels as they were coming --

COOPER: And it's harder to do that after the fact. I mean, that's the kind of thing that should be built.

GIBSON: It's well, you know, when you when trust is eroded with your allies, it's harder to get them on board.

COOPER: Alan, Iran's foreign minister warned that the U.S. and UAE against getting drawn into what he called a quagmire, said events in Hormuz make clear that there's no military solution to the political crisis. How do you interpret those remarks? Where do you see, I mean, who's going to give here if both sides are not ready to.

EYRE: Actually, that was one of the most interesting things that happened in the last 24 hours. It wasn't Project Freedom, it was Iran announcing expanding their zone of control to encompass Fujairah, which, as you point out, is where ADCOP their pipeline ends circumventing the Strait.

So, Iran clearly wanted to escalate and the UAE is the favorite target whether it wants to do regional escalation. Where does it end? Again, at some point, either the U.S. is just going to declare victory and leave, leaving it for the rest of the world to negotiate the status of the Strait of Hormuz. Perhaps there could be temporary tolling. No one wants that. But if it's temporary and a minimal fee, the countries that will suffer disproportionately are the Gulf countries.

It really won't add a lot of money to the price of oil and affect the rest of the world, but it does establish a new norm that everyone is loath to establish. The key point here is, I think, and this is coming up in the next month, is China. And how heavily China leans on Iran and uses its influence with Iran to see if it can find a new modus vivendi for the gulf countries.

COOPER: I mean, China would have has an interest in the strait's reopening as well.

GIBSON: Certainly. But if they are able to reach, to get their oil through the shadow fleet. You know, I think the success of the blockade to deny Iran revenue from its exports, they've got an economy that has adapted over the years to sanctions. but they've never had to deal with an ex, you know, a ban on their exports.

So, the success of the blockade is going to depend on the ability to prevent ships from entering Iranian ports or leaving them. It's also going to depend on the ability to go after the shadow fleet. And to an extent it would it may depend on China's willingness to cooperate with this, in this regard.

[20:15:40]

COOPER: The difficulty when you're trying to economically punish Iran, congressman, is that the Iranian regime doesn't really care about its own people and has shown a willingness in the Iran-Iraq war, certainly, to undergo tremendous economic burden and loss of life, even when they're not winning.

KINZINGER: That's right, and the pain threshold of Iran is much higher than ours, right? We, I mean, we're fairly lucky in the United States, even though gas prices have gone up compared to the world that has actually worried about losing gas. But yes, they have a lot of ability to take pain. But if you remember Iran-Iraq War, Iraq attacked Kharg Island and that drove Iran to the negotiating table.

So, there is something that that can do. But I've got to point out, when they say we have this whole thing planned, they being the Trump administration, we lifted sanctions against Iran in the middle of the kinetic action against them. And now we have a blockade, why did we lift sanctions? And then after reimpose them?

COOPER: General Gibson, thanks so much, Alan Eyre, excuse me, thank you very much. And, Adam, congratulations on your book.

KINZINGER: Thank you.

COOPER: What age of kids is it for?

KINZINGER: Like four to 10.

COOPER: Okay.

KINZINGER: And adults too, I like it.

COOPER: I look forward to it. Thanks very much.

Coming up next, how to square the President's initiative for securing the Strait with how relatively easy it is to shut it down with mines, a type of weapon that seems like it's right out of the First World War, but is very much of the moment. We'll be joined by former Navy officer who has made mine warfare specialty.

And later, Vladimir Putin, bracing for a coup attempt. What a new intelligence report obtained by CNN says about that. And the steps he seems to be taking to try to reduce the risk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:26]

COOPER: The fragile ceasefire between the United States and Iran is being tested as both sides exchanged fire today in the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump announced Sunday that the U.S. military would now guide merchant vessels belonging to what he calls third party countries through the Strait as part of Project Freedom.

He writes, "For the good of Iran, the Middle East and the United States, we have told these countries that we will guide their ships safely out of these restricted waterways, so that they can freely and ably get on with their business."

Whether safe transit is actually possible remains to be seen. Admiral Brad Cooper said the U.S. Navy is clear to see lane of mines. However, only two ships actually transited the Strait, according to CENTCOM.

We're going to get perspective now from Bryan Clark, a retired Navy officer and senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. He's war gamed out what it might take to clear the Strait of Hormuz of mines.

Brian, welcome back. What do you make of this U.S. plan to guide ships through the Strait? U.S. Central Command has been clear this is an escort mission.

BRYAN CLARK, SENIOR FELLOW, HUDSON INSTITUTE: Yes, Anderson, thanks for having me on. What I surmise is that they have cleared a very narrow lane that's wide enough for them to bring out a ship one way coming out, but not enough to get two-way traffic back, and probably not enough to allow ships to maneuver very much. So, it does leave them somewhat vulnerable if they're having to make that transit out in a very narrow lane that's prescribed by the Navy's previous mine clearing efforts.

COOPER: Last time you were on the on the program, we talked about the painstaking, time consuming process locating detonating mines in the Strait. You said it could take months. That was without Iran firing missiles and drones. What happens if fighting starts back up again?

CLARK: Well, it makes it really difficult to expand this lane beyond where it is today. I think the Navy got lucky in that they probably found a lane that was clear of mines already and were able to chart that out and then use that to guide ships through the Strait. But if they do find mines, then it's going to be very difficult to eliminate them, like we talked about neutralizing them, when you're under fire, because those mine clearing forces will now be vulnerable to attack by the Iranians.

COOPER: And to find a lane like that and to expand a lane like that. What does it take? Because you're, you know, you're, as you talked about, there's potentially mines on the sea floor, there's mines, I mean, all throughout kind of the layers of the ocean.

CLARK: Right, well, I think what the Navy has done is they've used what's called the Mark-18, mine hunting sonar, that's on a small unmanned undersea vehicle. You send it into the water, it's autonomous, so it can operate on its own. And it maps the sea floor and it can see about maybe a football field wide scan. And it'll scan that water column basically from near the surface down to the bottom and identify anything that could be a mine.

So, it'll come back and you have to download the data and then look at the data and see, well, what looks like a mine, maybe what could be a mine. And you probably have to go out and scan it again to verify things that maybe looked like they could be mines and get some certainty on that. So, it's a multiple paths process and it takes obviously a relatively long time because the vehicle only goes five knots or so.

COOPER: Do you think the U.S. has done enough for shipping companies to feel confident sending their vessels through the Strait?

CLARK: Well, they've sort of done the bare minimum by driving their own ships through it. So, it's sort of a way to demonstrate that they are, they've cleared it of mines, but it's a pretty narrow lane. And if you're the ship that's following that Navy ship, you don't know if the Navy ship will be able to defend you from drone attack or missile attack.

And that's the challenge right now, is the Navy is not committing to escorting these ships. It's only committing to guiding them through the minefield.

COOPER: And in terms of the small boats that that Iran has, I mean, obviously we saw with the USS Cole, unfortunately, the damage a small craft like that can do. How vulnerable are our ships to those and our tankers in particular?

[20:25:15]

CLARK: Tankers are very vulnerable to them because a tanker doesn't have much defense. And like I said, they can't maneuver very much, especially as they go through the strait in this very narrow lane. Warships can shoot them. They have various guns they can use to shoot them, which they did today. And then helicopters are very useful against them as well.

So, the Navy's plan, I think, is to use their helicopters and their ships to provide area defense over a region in the Strait where these boats might come out to attack, and then just hope that they're able to intervene and prevent them from reaching one of the tankers that might make their way out of the Strait.

COOPER: I'm wondering, big picture, do you believe or do you think at this stage, the President's threats of, you know, blowing Iran off the face of the Earth if they target U.S. Ships? Um, are effective either as a negotiating tactic or as a deterrent?

CLARK: It's probably not that effective because the U.S. already kind of went up to the very top of the escalation ladder early in this war when they took out the Iranian leadership and went after all of their military targets.

There's not really that many more targets to go after. They would just start servicing the same targets over again, or going after infrastructure targets. And I think the Iranians have sort of baked that into their calculus. So, I think the U.S. approach now is to, lets clear the Strait and start bringing shipping out to remove Iran's leverage.

COOPER: Bryan Clark, I really appreciate it. Thanks, Brian.

CLARK: Oh, you're welcome, Anderson.

COOPER: Coming up next, from mines to drones, how cheap unmanned aircraft have complicated life these days for American military planners in this war and perhaps certainly for all that follow.

And later what went wrong with the piloted aircraft? A widebody jet full of passengers approaching the runway, almost touching down on the New Jersey turnpike, and a truck that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:15]

COOPER: This was Iran's military answer to the new American initiative to reestablish shipping through the Strait of Hormuz. As we touched on briefly earlier, Iran's foreign minister also had words for the President warning the U.S. against being dragged back into what he called a quagmire.

CNN's Nic Robertson is following all the diplomatic and verbal jockeying from Islamabad. He joins us now with more. What are Iranian officials, Nic, saying about where the ceasefire stands right now, and are there any diplomatic talks underway?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the Iranian foreign minister tweeted in the last couple of hours, and it does sort of feel slightly odd because he said, look, everyone should see from what happened today, there is no military solution to this, he praised the Pakistani mediators.

But he said the United States and the UAE, for that matter, should be careful not to get drawn into a quagmire because of people trying to sort of go for the military option. I find that fascinating because you also have today the Iranians saying that they didn't fire these 19 missiles, the 12 ballistic missiles, the three cruise missiles, the four drones, that the UAE that actually injured three people and put an oil terminal on fire.

It seems sort of incongruous you can have that narrative at the same time that their military is trying to shoot up ships with missiles, U.S. ships with missiles in the Strait of Hormuz, is setting fire to commercial vessels in the Strait of Hormuz. It really creates the impression that the moderates and the hardliners, right, is something we've heard a lot about in Iran before, but I get the sense that the hardliners here are winning the day. That's the narrative that emerges.

Where's the sort of ceasefire on shaky ground? Where's the diplomacy where the foreign ministry today in Tehran was working on a response to the U.S. peace proposal that was put back across them over the weekend? So the moderates are sort of doing their bit, but it seems to be being upended by the hardliners at the moment, Anderson.

COOPER: And what more are you hearing about the current status of the Strait of Hormuz?

ROBERTSON: Yes, I think it really does depend on what happens today, in this daybreak here already. Is Project Freedom going to continue? Will there be efforts to get more civilian vessels out? And will the hardliners, the IRGC, the military in Iran try to scupper President Trump's efforts there to give this sort of humanitarian relief and get some of these many, many commercial vessels that are stuck in the Gulf out and on to their destinations with their precious cargo?

It does seem to be, at least in the Strait of Hormuz, to be in the hands of the hardliners. If they listen to their --

COOPER: Yes.

ROBERTSON: -- foreign minister, they won't be doing it. But if they don't, then we could be into more of this.

COOPER: Nic Robertson, thanks very much, from Islamabad.

With me now is Scott Anderson, journalist and author of "King of Kings: The Iranian Revolution." In his latest op-ed for The New York Times, Scott writes, "Operation Epic Fury, Meet Operation Colossal Blunder," arguing that the Trump administration's military operation against Iran is being undermined by a new feature of modern warfare Iran has dominated, which is drones.

Scott, thanks for being here. So you write that either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered and a blustering American President humiliated are essentially the two outcomes to this conflict. Which one do you think more likely?

SCOTT ANDERSON, AUTHOR, "KING OF KINGS: THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION": I think much more likely, I think we're almost there now, is that there is going to be a negotiation. And Trump's going to have to back down.

[20:35:04]

I don't think he's going to be able to do this wholesale war that he threatened two weeks ago --

COOPER: Destroying the civilization.

ANDERSON: Destroying the civilization.

COOPER: There's not much -- I mean, I guess earlier, we were talking about to continue bombing conventionally Iran, it would be the same targets kind of over again.

ANDERSON: That's right, that's right. And, you know, however much bombing you do, you are not going to take away the drones, the speedboats, the mines that are the, you know, the tools that the Iranians now have for retaliation.

COOPER: It is remarkable to see -- I mean, just to think about how much warfare has just changed really, I mean, I guess maybe the turning point is the Ukraine war, although we certainly saw the rise of drones before that. But in Ukraine, you know, the U.S. can spend a huge amount of money to destroy a small boat or a small drone --

ANDERSON: That's right.

COOPER: -- but the drone itself costs $20,000.

ANDERSON: That's right, that's right. And, yes, you drop a million- dollar missile to destroy a $20,000 drone. And there's unlimited numbers of drones. And no matter how you can carpet bomb the country, you're not going to get rid of all the drones. So --

COOPER: I think you make the point in your article, too, I read it -- I think it was over the weekend, that Iran has the capabilities to continue to make drones even now.

ANDERSON: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, this is kind of a classic David versus Goliath story. And, you know, all the hardware that the Americans have, these, you know, multi-million-dollar missiles, it's kind of the slingshot that they're up against, and the slingshot's winning. COOPER: It's so interesting, though, because, I mean, the U.S., with predator drones, which are obviously a very different kind of drone, but really was sort of out in the forefront with those kind of surveillance drones --

ANDERSON: Right.

COOPER: -- also, you know, drones that could kill people from vast distances, piloted from, you know, pilots in Nevada or wherever, operating in Afghanistan or Iraq. But has been slow to really embrace and understand, I mean, I think they do now, and they're trying to catch up, but what's happening on the battlefields of Ukraine.

ANDERSON: That's right, that's right. And it's -- I think it's a classic case of generals and admirals always want to use their top- shelf weapons in a war. And, you know, it's sexy to use big weaponry, and it's the small stuff that just seems to catch out the Americans again and again. IEDs in Iraq, and now, you know, it's drones in landmines or sea mines here.

COOPER: It is remarkable how, in Ukraine, I mean, you know, I remember, I don't know, two years ago, the discussions about, you know, how much time they had left on the battlefield because of just the overwhelming number of bodies that the Russians were able to throw at them. And yet, now they're in this position, I mean, it seems, because of their embrace of drones and their kind of genius at repurposing these things --

ANDERSON: Right.

COOPER: -- they've been able to exact a huge toll on Russia.

ANDERSON: Absolutely. And what you're seeing in Ukraine is even these $1,000 drones they build, they reuse them. They go and they drop something, and then they come back. So, yes, I mean, it's literally costs very little money to do what they're doing.

And we've all seen the videos of them taking out M-90 tanks with a simple drone. Certainly that would happen if the Americans were to go in on the ground in Iran. You would see that play out again.

COOPER: Yes. Scott Anderson, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

ANDERSON: My pleasure. Thank you.

COOPER: New CNN reporting on the Kremlin's fear of a coup or assassination plot against Vladimir Putin, that and the security moves they are making in response.

And later, it's almost unimaginable being stranded on a cruise ship after three passengers die, apparently, of a virus that kills about one in three people who catch it, the Hantavirus. We'll have more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:43:07]

COOPER: A fears of a coup or an assassination have led to a major security ramp-up around Vladimir Putin. CNN has obtained a European intelligence report showing just how far the Kremlin is going to keep that from happening. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a rare pointed insight into one of the starkest secrets in Russia, President Vladimir Putin's security protocols. And it, a detailed intelligence report given to CNN by a source close to a European intelligence agency, portrays, predictably, a Kremlin in deep crisis.

Cooks, bodyguards, and photographers working with Putin must have surveillance systems installed in their homes, it says. Putin has stopped visiting military sites this year entirely, it says, in contrast to last year, often spending time in fortified bunkers and keeping clear of some of his main lavish residences like Valday. A tactic aided by many of his appearances, and he is in the media a lot, being pre-recorded.

His staff cannot use smartphones or public transport, the report adds. Visitors must be searched twice.

PATON WALSH: Not all of this information is new. Some of it rumored or evident before. But the massive detail is striking, as is the decision by a European intelligence agency to release a report like this. Clearly an information salvo designed to stoke strife and paranoia at a time of perceived weakness in the Kremlin.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): The dossier also suggests something staggering, that the measures may be designed to protect Putin from a potential coup, something he had a narrow miss with in June 2023, when mercenary boss and former chef to Putin, Yevgeny Prigozhin, led a failed march on Moscow.

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, MERCENARY BOSS AND FORMER CHEF TO PUTIN: (Speaking Foreign Language)

PATON WALSH (voice-over): The risk of a coup, it says now, is from another former confidant, Sergei Shoigu. Once his Minister of Defense, but now Secretary of the Security Council, he retains significant influence within the military high command, it says.

[20:45:10]

The report says a coup is more likely after Shoigu's former deputy and close associate, Ruslan Tsalikov, was arrested in March, which it calls, quote, "a breach of the tacit protection agreements among elites." But the report doesn't provide any evidence or explain why it has made this risk public, warning the Kremlin.

It claims the new security measures came after a series of assassinations among the Russian top brass, likely by Ukraine, at an urgent meeting last year, after the killing of Lieutenant General Fanil Sarvarov in Moscow on December the 22nd.

The release of the report has convenient timing, four years into Russia's invasion of Ukraine, at a time when doubts about Russia's ability to sustain its war effort and its economic impact are growing. Of major Internet blackouts, growing internal criticism of Putin himself, and continued successful Ukrainian bombardment of targets deep inside Russia.

Especially ahead of the May the 9th Victory Day parade, scaled back dramatically this year for security, there are plenty of reasons European intelligence would seek to destabilize the Kremlin, and much of this is hard to corroborate. But it is rare detail and a confident presentation of a Kremlin in crisis that matches a moment of peaking criticism of Putin internally.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Anderson, the Kremlin have not responded to our request for comment, but this is part of a growing climate, I think, of anxiety, really, not just around the conduct of Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, where they have asked for a ceasefire on Victory Day, 8th and 9th of May. And Ukraine has countered by offering one for longer, starting earlier, but also because around that particular parade we learned today that they potentially will be putting in Internet restrictions on mobile phones, one of many occasions this has happened.

It's a real sign, I think, that things are increasingly precarious for the Kremlin, Anderson.

COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks.

I want to talk more about this intelligence report with Evelyn Farkas, she's the executive director of the McCain Institute, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia. Also with us, former ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor. Both visited Kyiv just last week.

Evelyn, when you hear some of the details in this report about the potential threat of a coup, I'm wondering how much faith you have in it or what stands out to you about it.

EVELYN FARKAS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR RUSSIA/UKRAINE/EURASIA: Yes, Anderson, it sounds completely credible in the sense that there's a lot of pressure being put now on the Kremlin. You know, the reality is that the Ukrainians have gained the upper hand militarily because of the surging of their drones and their ability to strike the Russian oil infrastructure in the rear. And then, of course, as you said, these assassinations of these Russian generals, three of them in the last two years.

And now the war is being brought home to the Russian elites and the people because there have been some drone strikes that hit in Moscow. And clearly Putin is afraid that they're going to strike at his May Day parade. So Putin is very vulnerable right now. And the pressure, of course, would make them subject to infighting. That is very plausible to me.

COOPER: Ambassador Taylor, I mean, are you surprised that the Kremlin would be going, as far as installing surveillance systems in the homes of Putin's staff, banning them from public transport, among other restrictions?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Anderson, nothing would surprise me that the Kremlin did in order to secure themselves and secure Putin. This is an oppressive regime. This is a repressive, oppressive regime that goes to great lengths to be sure that they are in control. So, no, this is not a surprise.

COOPER: Ambassador, in your experience, I mean, how do regimes like this, or I'm not sure one can compare this to anything else, but how do regimes sort of suddenly collapse, or other coups you've seen? I mean, there's this report about Sergei Shoigu, Putin's former confidant. Evelyn, I know -- I think you've worked with -- in your role at the Defense Department. Ambassador, would he be a serious threat? And even if he was named as a serious threat, wouldn't that be a threat to him right now?

TAYLOR: I'm sure it's a threat to him right now. But as Nick reported earlier, this happened before. You know, Prigozhin, suddenly he was in Ukraine doing some really terrible things and then turned around and came out, headed for Moscow. He was -- that was a real threat, and no one saw that coming.

Of course, he paid for it later on, but no one saw that coming. So, sure, it could happen. And Shoigu would be in a position to do that.

COOPER: Evelyn, what do you think about the Shoigu mention?

FARKAS: Yes, I mean, I agree always with my friend Bill Taylor. But I would say that the reality is that if Prigozhin had wanted to take down Putin, he could have succeeded. That was not his intent.

COOPER: Really?

FARKAS: With regard to Shoigu --

[20:50:07]

COOPER: Do you think he really could have taken (INAUDIBLE)?

FARKAS: I don't know -- well, if he had wanted to, because all he would have had to do was find some generals who agreed with him and worked with him. And the reason I say that is because all the other generals sort of let him go through all the way to Moscow. Nobody stopped him. So if he had been actually planning a coup, which perhaps some people thought he was, then he would have had a general on the other side in Moscow, you know, taking over from there, if you will.

So -- but with regard to Shoigu, we don't know whether it's true or maybe it's just information. But I can tell you that Shoigu is somebody who has always been very well-respected among the Russian elite and by Putin and also by the Russian people, because prior to being Minister of Defense, he was responsible for the agency that deals with emergencies.

COOPER: Ambassador, the report mentioned that some of the Russian public may be turning more against the war with economic issues, problems like cell phone data outages. How much does public perception matter to the Kremlin?

TAYLOR: Anderson, probably not very much. As I say, this is the most oppressive controlling regime that we've seen since Soviet times, indeed, in the worst part of Soviet times. So I'm not -- I can't believe that they're very concerned about popular opinion. They do care what the Russian people think, and they go to great lengths to provide the propaganda, their story, that they want to get out.

But I don't think they're worried about a threat from the people. I think Evelyn's right. I think it's someone around Putin who would be the biggest threat.

COOPER: Evelyn, what does it indicate to you that ceremonies have been scaled back for Russia's victory day this Saturday? I mean, it's a remarkable turn of events. I mean, I remember when Ukraine started doing some kind of cross-border operations very limited early on in Russia, it was sort of treated as, you know, a small kind of side show to the war. But now their ability to reach into and, you know, assassinate generals, which you pointed out, is remarkable.

FARKAS: Yes, Anderson, and the thing is it's not just their ability. The other part of it is that they're not being held back. Because if you remember, you know, the United States, Jake Sullivan flew to Kyiv and basically asked the Ukrainians to not hit the refineries as hard as they were because of the fear that the oil price would go up and the repercussions.

And I'm sure the Europeans have made similar, you know, given similar messages over the years to the Ukrainians. And now the Ukrainians are saying, look, neither of you are really reliable and we don't want to be dependent on you. So we have the capability, we also have the ability and the will, and so they're acting more independently.

COOPER: Ambassador, the intelligence report is just one piece of this larger picture when it comes to Russia and Ukraine. I'm wondering what your view of where the war stands overall.

TAYLOR: So when Evelyn and I were there last week, we got a pretty upbeat sense from the Ukrainians on the overall -- first of all, they've made it through a terrible winter. But second of all, as you've said and as Evelyn said, they're taking back territory. They took back more territory last month than the Russians gained. So they're making progress.

These deep strikes that we've been talking about, they were feeling pretty upbeat. The Europeans had come through with that billion dollar -- the $100 billion loan. So they were thinking they can make it through and they didn't put much hope in the negotiations. There was not much faith, not much hope, not much expectation that the negotiations would go anywhere.

COOPER: Ambassador Taylor, always a pleasure. Evelyn Farkas as well, thanks so much.

Up next, why a South African police officer airlifted this crocodile out of a riverbank. And the terrifying moment for a truck driver in the New Jersey turnpike when a 767 hit his vehicle as it was coming in for a landing at Newark International Airport. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:14]

COOPER: In South Africa over the weekend, the end to a terrible story. A police officer was lowered onto the banks of a crocodile-filled river to remove one of the crocodiles that had been euthanized after killing a man and apparently eating him. DNA testing will now be done to identify the person.

Elsewhere, three cruise ship passengers have died and at least three others sick after a suspected outbreak of Hantavirus, a respiratory -- a severe respiratory illness usually transmitted by rodents. The WHO says the ship, the MV Hondius, is on lockdown on the west coast of Africa.

It left South America seven weeks ago, made stops in Antarctica and several small islands. Right now there are 149 people on board, including 17 Americans, one of whom shared this message today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE ROSMARIN, STRANDED CRUISE SHIP PASSENGER: We're not just a story. We're not just headlines. We're people. People with families, with lives, with people waiting for us at home.

There's a lot of uncertainty, and that's the hardest part. All we want right now is to feel safe, to have clarity, and to get home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, you're about to see some incredibly terrifying dash camera video of a truck driver as a United 767 about to land at Newark International Airport, touchdown first on the truck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CRASH SOUND)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Remarkably, the driver survived. State police say a preliminary investigation shows the underside of the plane and its landing gear collided, there are words, with the truck and a light pole. According to investigators, the driver suffered some cuts to his arm because of broken glass. He was able to safely pull off the highway, which is incredible.

No one on the flight itself was injured. The NTSB is investigating the incident. At first, air traffic control didn't realize there was a problem with the landing. It was about a half hour later. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they felt something over the threshold and they -- there's a hole in the side of the airplane. So I'm going to get you on the runway here in a moment. They said it was right at the threshold, so it'll just be a minute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.