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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
WHO: Six Confirmed Hantavirus Cases, Two More Suspected; CDC Teams To Meet Americans On Hantavirus-Hit Ship In Canary Islands; U.S. Military Says It Disabled Two Vessels In Gulf Of Oman; Virginia Supreme Court Strikes Down Democrats Redistricting Plan; Alabama Urges Supreme Court To Let It Eliminate Democratic-Held Congressional District; WHO: 6 Confirmed Hantavirus Cases, 2 More Suspected; Hantavirus Survivor Describes Near-Death Experience; Canvas Hack Locked Out Students During Finals Week; New Pentagon UFO Files Include Some Previously Classified Documents, Photos And Videos. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 08, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: I told my clients, we have to run down. He then filmed this incredible video.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are still many local tourists. Oh my God. Oh my god. Oh, I hope they're alive.
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ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Incredible, I mean, 17 hikers have been safely evacuated, three tragically were killed in the eruption. Their bodies remain in the mountain. Search operations resume tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. AC 360 starts now.
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: A sixth case of deadly hantavirus now confirmed in two more suspected with the ship at the center of the outbreak about to come in.
John Berman here in for Anderson. And that is the latest from the World Health Organization, a new confirmed case this weekend at a small Spanish island off the coast of Africa. Passengers from the M/V Hondius will finally be able to leave the vessel they've been on now for weeks for much of that time, watching shipmates fall ill and some of them dying of the virus, which kills about one in three who catch it.
Their ordeal, though, which began almost a month ago when the first of three passengers died, will not be over when they disembark in Tenerife, likely on Sunday. Hantavirus can linger in the body for weeks before causing symptoms, which is why more than two dozen people who left the ship on April 24th are already being monitored for signs of illness right now on four continents, including six states here in the United States. It's why the 17 remaining American passengers will go straight from
the ship this weekend to a special biocontainment aircraft for a flight to the University of Nebraska Medical Center and stay at this country's only federally funded quarantine facility. Now, you might remember from the early days of COVID, you might also recall soundbites from the President at the time, that sounded a lot like this.
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DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We seem to have things under very good control. They know that virus very well. It's been around a long time, not easily transferable. Unlike COVID, but we'll see. We're studying it very closely. We have very good people studying it very closely.
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BERMAN: That was the President tonight. But for all the concerns people might have about some kind of rerun of 2020, the World Health Organization and other experts say this virus is not that one, but it does kill and it can spread. And what's about to unfold in Tenerife this weekend will reflect those realities. CNN's Melissa Bell is there.
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MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As the M/V Hondius heads towards the Canary Islands, in Tenerife, authorities are preparing for a race against time when the cruise ship arrives here in Granadilla.
BELL (on camera): That cruise ship is now on its way here to Tenerife and is due to arrive at this port. It's pretty blustery here already, and what local authorities are saying is that the weather conditions are going to deteriorate Tuesday, which means that the only window of opportunity for getting all the passengers off of the ship is between when it arrives at midday on Sunday and by the end of Monday.
BELL (voice over): The 147 remaining passengers and crew will only leave the Hondius when a plane to their country is ready to take off from Tenerife Airport. The goal to minimize their time on the island.
VIRGINIA BARCONE, SPAIN'S HEAD OF CIVIL PROTECTION AND EMERGENCY (through translator): That means all the technical aspects have to be sorted. Refueling must be complete and the aircraft door must be open so they can start boarding.
BELL (voice over): Passengers will then get ferried off the ship on speedboats taken to the airport, and then flown to their respective countries.
BELL (on camera): Spanish authorities say that the first passengers to be taken off the ship will be the 17 Americans. CNN understands from sources that they'll be taken by charter planes straight to the National Quarantine Unit in Nebraska. BARCONE (through translator): I can tell you with absolute certainty
that there is absolutely no chance of any contact with the civilian population.
BELL (voice over): Those assurances, not enough for many here in Tenerife. Port workers on the island expressing their frustration in front of the local parliament.
RUBEN MANGANE, TENERIFE PORT WORKER AND PROTESTER (through translator): We don't have any information. We don't know how that virus is spread. Therefore, we can't have the needed PPIs. We don't know if we should be using FFP2 masks or a single mask. We know nothing.
BELL (voice over): With COVID still on people's minds, these protests are a reminder of the fear these outbreaks can inspire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: And Melissa Bell is with us now from Tenerife. Melissa, we know that the 17 Americans are heading to that quarantine unit in Nebraska. How are the other countries preparing to quarantine their passengers?
BELL: Well, very different procedures for different countries. We understand what they do have in common is that all these passengers will be screened. The ship itself will be anchored just offshore to respect the wishes of local authorities, that it is not docked in Tenerife itself. And then there will be this screening. They will be tested, their symptoms will be checked, and then they'll be dispatched off to their home countries.
To give you an example, the 14 Spanish Nationals, 13 passengers plus one crew member will be taken to Madrid, where they'll be put in a military hospital for at least seven days, actively monitored every single day. Their temperatures checked before they can be released. They won't be allowed any visits, for instance.
The U.K. Nationals will be sent back to the United Kingdom, brought back to the United Kingdom with special planes as well. But once they're there, they'll simply be told to isolate for 45 days. A reminder of how long this incubation period is for this particular virus, but very different protocols according to different countries.
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What they do have in common is that none of them were told by Spanish authorities very much, with an eye on what people think here will be allowed to get anywhere near the shore. They'll be taken by special speedboats straight from the ship, onto the airport and onto their planes onwards. But a very delicate operation that needs to happen in a very short space of time from Sunday to Monday -- John.
BERMAN: Extraordinary precautions, Melissa Bell in Tenerife. It's great to have you there, thanks so much. With us now, Brown University public health researcher in 2014 Ebola
survivor, Dr. Craig Spencer, also former CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden. Dr. Frieden, what's your assessment of the CDC plan for the American cruise ship passengers rushing him to a quarantine jet, flying him to Nebraska and putting them there?
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: Well, let's be clear, the hantavirus outbreak on the cruise ship is certainly very concerning for anyone on the cruise ship. And anyone who has direct contact with someone who's ill. But this is not going to become the next COVID, the next pandemic. And they're taking extraordinary precautions with these individuals.
Fundamentally, what you need to do is make sure that people are checked in on every day to see if they are ill or have a fever, because not only could they then become infectious, but they could become very rapidly, very ill. So, what you really want is to make sure that the people who may have been exposed are near care and can get good care quickly.
In terms of spread to others, from everything we've seen about this virus, it requires really close, prolonged contact. A cruise ship is very different from other environments. A cruise ship is kind of like a petri dish. People mix; there's very little ventilation. There are lots of outbreaks of lots of different microbes on cruise ships.
I think the bigger issue here, frankly, is that this incident shows how hollowed out the U.S. CDC has been, how dangerous it is to walk away from the World Health Organization and how increasingly vulnerable we are because we are letting down our defenses against microbes like this one.
BERMAN: So, Dr. Spencer, what can these 17 U.S. passengers expect as they disembark this ship, which as Dr. Frieden puts it, sort of a petri dish for spread of this. But what can they expect as they get off and head to Nebraska for quarantine?
I think we're having a hard time with Dr. Spencer's audio. I'll ask that same question to you, Dr. Frieden. What do you think it will be like for the passengers themselves, those 17. What will life be like as they are managed through this process?
FRIEDEN: It's really scary. And Dr. Spencer can speak more to this if his audio comes back on. But you've been exposed to a disease that can be fatal. You don't know if you're going to get ill and you're going to an unknown location, somewhere you've never been before.
Obviously, no one wants to make their loved ones ill. This is a measure that I think is, you know, more than safe, but you really have to recognize that there are other people who have gotten off the ship earlier. And the key here really, is to make sure that people have rapid access to good care if they get very sick. Because there's no vaccine, there's no specific treatment, but supportive care in an Intensive Care Unit can save someone's life.
BERMAN: Yes, probably the most difficult thing is to remain patient and calm for the weeks and weeks that this will play out. The CDC Dr. Frieden has classified this response as level three, which is the lowest emergency level. But what exactly does that mean?
FRIEDEN: Really, the risk to anyone who doesn't have direct contact with the ship or someone who's sick, who's been on the ship is zero. This is not like an infection spreading and we don't know where it is. This is a what we call a point-source cluster. So, it's a cluster that's on the ship and people associated with the ship. Again, the bigger concern here is how inactive the U.S. CDC has been.
I would have expected there would have been at least one, if not two bulletins going out to doctors all over the U.S. outlining what are the symptoms, what should we be telling patients? If we have someone who's sick, where should they be tested? How should they be cared for? That's a basic fundamental role of CDC, and were not seeing that happen because, frankly, although there are thousands of doctors, nurses, scientists working really hard at CDC, trying to get their jobs done, they're doing it against great odds because a quarter or a third of CDC staff have been pushed into retirement or fired because most or almost all of the directors at CDC are either acting or absent. And because, frankly, the organization has been packed with political appointees.
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BERMAN: We talked about or you've been talking about how really the primary concern, almost a hundred percent of it, is for people who were on board that vessel. But there does appear to be some concern over suspected cases, or at least one case of someone who traveled on the same flight as one of the cruise ship passengers who later died.
So, when you hear about a case like that, how much of a concern is that? And how do you do the math you need to do to track that type of thing?
FRIEDEN: This is the meticulous disease detective shoe leather epidemiology, where you track every single patient who is ill. You find out everything you can about where they were when in relation to when they were sick. You find out what they touched, where they might have contaminated, who they might have had contact with that kind of investigation allows us with those detailed detective, medical detective information that allows us to figure out how it spreads, where, how much of a risk it is.
So, if someone was sick and, on a plane, then yes, someone who's near that person could have been exposed. And you can understand the concerns. We had a similar incident in, Ebola where someone who was sick got on a plane. We had to track people in dozens of states, tell them they might have been exposed, and make sure that they tracked their health. Because first off, you don't want them to infect others, but you also want to make sure that they get care promptly. If they do get sick.
BERMAN: Dr. Spencer, are you back with us?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER, BROWN UNIVERSITY PUBLIC HEALTH RESEARCHER IN 2014 EBOLA SURVIVOR: I am.
BERMAN: We were talking about you behind your back, so thank you. One of our questions actually had to do was an experience that you had because obviously you were dealing with your own Ebola infection years ago. And just what's that like to be a patient in this situation, this long situation that plays out?
SPENCER: Well, let me be honest, it's not very fun. But I will say is that I'm really lucky that I went to a center of excellence. I was treated at a place in New York City that had prepared for this, similar to the University of Nebraska Biocontainment Facility, where these passengers will be going. And there are other similar facilities around the United States that thankfully, over the past decade, we have stood up and we have sustained funding to, despite political bickering in the background.
And because of that, we have these centers where the staff are trained, where we have the resources and the people that we need. And this is important that as we go forward, we don't lose how incredibly important having these at all times, whether there is an outbreak, whether there's not, whether there's something at sea, whether there's nothing currently brewing like hantavirus. We need to make sure that we have access to these resources, these centers, this funding, to be able to be standing this up in the background at all times so that were always ready and able to respond like we are now.
BERMAN: This is when you need them. Dr. Spencer, just one more question, since were lucky enough to have you back. We know that New Jersey is one of the states monitoring people who are potentially exposed. What does the long incubation period for hantavirus? How does that play in for, you know, how these cases will be monitored?
SPENCER: This is just bread and butter public health. This is something that we did thousands and thousands of times in west Africa during Ebola. We have done this so many times for so many outbreaks all over the world, including here at the United States. We have protocols for how we do this. We make sure that we measure people's temperatures over the next few weeks. We're going to learn a lot more about hantavirus, even though we already know quite a bit.
We'll learn more about the incubation period, the symptoms that folks will have. And I'm fully confident that the folks working in state and local health departments around the country, despite a lot of the cuts that they've incurred over the past year, will be able to do their job incredibly well. Make sure they're able to do this monitoring and make sure that they're able to keep all of us safe.
BERMAN: It will take patience, it's going to take time, and it's going to take well trained professionals, which hopefully we still have where we need them. Dr. Spencer, Dr. Frieden, thank you both so much for being here tonight, really appreciate it.
Next, the war, more U.S. strikes on Iranian ships and breaking news just in on that country's shadowy Supreme Leader, who has not been seen in public since the start of the fighting. And later, just in time for final exams. What we're learning about the
cyber-attack on a cloud based digital hub used by millions of students, including my children, K through 12 and in college around the world.
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BERMAN: All right, we have footage tonight from central command of American forces firing on and disabling a pair of Iranian flagged oil tankers trying, CENTCOM says, to get around the blockade. This is the second straight day of hostilities in the region.
And we do have some breaking news tonight, namely, that Iran's Supreme Leader is communicating with subordinates only in person or by courier. This is part of a U.S. intelligence assessment that multiple sources tell us also describes him as seriously injured, but still playing a critical role in shaping war strategy.
The President also weighed in late today on the war and talks to end it, which have yet to include that expected reply from Iran.
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TRUMP: I think we're doing very well. Iran is seeming to be coming along very well militarily, very good. We'll see whether or not they can get there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: For us now is Alan Eyre, a distinguished diplomatic fellow at the Middle East Institute and a member of the team who negotiated the 2015 nuclear agreement with Iran. President Trump scuttled that in 2018. Also with us, Meghan O'Sullivan, she's Director of Harvard's Belfer Center and a former Deputy National Security adviser for Iraq and Afghanistan. And here with us in studio CNN National Security analyst, Alex Plitsas.
Alex, you're here, I'm going to go to you first. And we've been hearing yesterday and today from administration officials saying that they expected a response from Iran today, Friday. It's no longer Friday in Iran. So, what's going on.
ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Still seems to be disagreement internally inside of Iran. We know that communications, as was just mentioned, the story that was broken a little bit earlier by our National Security team is difficult as the Supreme Leader is only handling it in person for communication security reasons.
So, you know, I also think, you know, to the point we were making earlier, they're probably trying to drag this out for as long as possible. BERMAN: I mean, they know it's no longer Friday in the United States,
even if communications are bad, they're probably not unhappy, it's a day late.
PLITSAS: Yes, I mean, for them, this is about avoiding an unconditional surrender. They want a conditional ceasefire with an agreement that gives them the best terms possible. You know, and we've got gentlemen on who actually helped to structure the deal previously. It took 18 months and 175 pages, this is not something that is going to be done quickly. We're looking at a potential high-level document for an agreement. And even then, we're talking about a document that is for a negotiation, about a negotiation, that's essentially where we're at.
BERMAN: So, Megan, this new CNN reporting, the U.S. intelligence assesses that Iran's new Supreme Leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, is injured badly, but still playing a critical role in shaping war strategy. So, what does that tell you?
MEGHAN O'SULLIVAN, DIRECTOR OF HARVARD'S BELFER CENTER: Well, I don't think that this report in itself is entirely surprising. If and we can now assume, because there are multiple sources here, the Supreme Leader is still alive. He is obviously not going to be communicating by phone or page or other electronic device.
So, it is feasible that he is receiving people in person and that he is getting information by courier. But to your question of what this means for the negotiations, it means that it is going to be very hard to hold to very strict and tight timelines.
We saw this, of course, around the ceasefire that was negotiated in Gaza. Again, a lot of Hamas leaders only accepting guidance in person. And so, the fact that a deadline has come and gone, if in fact, the Supreme Leader is playing the critical role that is alleged, could account for some of the reasons for the delay.
BERMAN: And Alan, you know, the President was asked by Kristen Holmes if he or when he expects to receive a response. He did say, well hear from them supposedly tonight. I'll have you weigh in on the same discussion we've been having so far. How do you think the real decision makers in Iran view the timing of this response, and how do they view the continued back and forth shooting that is happening in the Strait of Hormuz?
ALAN EYRE, SENIOR U.S. DIPLOMAT AND CURRENT DISTINGUISHED DIPLOMATIC FELLOW AT THE MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE (MEI): Well, to answer your second question, first, the shooting is to be expected. Iran wants to show that even though U.S. Military aircraft can go through, it's not safe for commercial vessels to do so. They've shown that the U.S. wants to show that it's going to maintain the blockade. They've shown that. So, that's to be expected.
In terms of the Iranian decision-making process, it's the same process as always. Theres not one figure who decides it. It's a process of consultation, of Egemen, as they say, in Persian and Arabic, so, that takes time. What's different is previously the Supreme Leader, the last one, had the whip hand and the IRGC implemented what he said after a consultative process that's flipped now, where the IRGC, the institution, is making a lot of the decisions. They run it by Mojtaba and he says, yes, that sounds good, or he makes a change or two. So, not much difference.
BERMAN: So, Alex, President Trump did say today that he might resume this short-lived operation, Project Freedom. It was the one touted extensively by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State and the President canceled or paused after one day. But he did say he might do it again to guide ships through the Strait of Hormuz. And it would be project freedom, plus other things. So, what would that look like?
PLITSAS: So potentially, turning that back on, obviously, there was some reporting earlier this week that both the Saudis and potentially the Emiratis were quite annoyed.
BERMAN: Kuwaitis.
PLITSAS: Yes, and the Kuwaitis, for a few reasons. One, they weren't necessarily sure it was the best idea to do this. But then second, the UAE was hit as a result of the U.S. sending ships through and interdicting one. And as a result of that, there was no counter strike. And so, the GCC states felt that that left them vulnerable to additional counterstrikes. And so, until there was additional consultations, there was a period in which the base access may have been turned off. And so, the administration disputes that. But there are enough GCC partners saying that that was the case. At least that's what I'm hearing in the background.
[20:25:10]
BERMAN: So, Meghan, there does seem to be a situation now where it comes down to what can last longer here? You know, Iran's economy, does the does Iran suffer economically more than President Trump can suffer politically here? That's the game of chicken. To what extent are the Iranians paying attention to that?
O'SULLIVAN: There's no question that Iranians are paying attention to it. Their economy is under enormous strain, and this blockade is exacerbating that in the recent action in the Gulf, you know, indicates that the U.S. and the U.S. presence there and managing things to some extent in the strait is not just about helping ships come in and out, or rather, to go out, but also about denying advantage to the Iranians.
One thing I'd like to add to this conversation is obviously there's a lot of question about is the ceasefire, is it intact? Is it fraying? Is it intact? And I'd like to just point out to our viewers that it's very common in warfare to fight and talk at the same time. In fact, the Colombian Civil War went on for quite a long time where the mantra was negotiate in Havana as if there were no war in Colombia and fight in Colombia, as if there were no peace talks in Havana.
And I think that's, well, what we could be headed into a period where there is fighting. It does flare up, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all negotiations stop.
BERMAN: Alan, very quickly. There's an extraordinary data point in terms of the timing here of negotiations and the situation in the Persian Gulf, and it has to do with China, with President Trump going to China next week. How do you think that trip influences what's happening?
EYRE: Well, I think it's clear President Trump does not want the ceasefire to blow up before he goes to China, because that gives him a weaker hand. Iran knows this, and that's probably why they were pointing rockets and missiles toward the UAE, because they know that President Trump cannot confess to the ceasefire not working. So, he's under a lot of pressure to at least have some peace of agreed document before he shows up in China and again, Iran knows that.
BERMAN: And Alan just what happens if there is shooting still like this? What happens if what we're seeing today, the last few days, which is a pretty steady level of back and forth, goes on while the President is in China?
EYRE: You know, again, it might affect the bilateral discussion between China and the U.S., but it's not going to affect the dynamics between Iran and the United States. And even they, approving this one- page document today or tomorrow is not that important. What's important is the communication process. Keep going and the two sides try to move closer together. So, as Alex said, the real negotiations can begin, which hasn't happened yet.
BERMAN: Alan Eyre, Meghan O'Sullivan, Alex Plitsas, great to see you all. Have a terrific weekend.
EYRE: Take care.
BERMAN: Next, a major republican win in the redistricting battle and the Pentagon releases the first batch of secret UFO files after directed to do so by the President.
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[20:32:29]
BERMAN: -- Democrats in Virginia are vowing to keep fighting after the Commonwealth Supreme Court this morning blocked their redistricting plan. This just weeks after voters narrowly approved it.
Also tonight, we do have breaking news out of Alabama, where officials there filed papers with the U.S. Supreme Court urging it basically to eliminate, or to allow it to eliminate, a Democratic-held congressional district.
With us now, CNN Chief Political Analyst David Axelrod, also CNN Senior Political Commentator Scott Jennings and Van Jones. David, I just want to start with you. How would you describe this day for Democrats? A day when the Virginia Supreme Court more or less took four seats away from them and Alabama's on the move to take another. DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think lousy is what I would say, John, if that was not a rhetorical question. Yes, this is a blow, obviously. A lot of effort went into this campaign to win a vote of the people and it has been set aside.
And, you know, when you look at the whole board with Florida moving and these other states based on the Supreme Court Voting Rights Act decision, you know, Tennessee and Louisiana and now Alabama, maybe South Carolina, you know, the President is in terrible political shape and on the natural, Republicans would lose the House.
This gives them a little bit more of a cushion, probably nine or 10 Democrats need to win to take the House other than -- rather than three. And so this was a bad day for Democrats, no doubt about it.
BERMAN: You know, Van, this move comes after the Supreme Court made its decision on voting rights. This would also revert Alabama's congressional map just to one majority black district. The state argued their election should run with districts based on, quote, "lawful policy goals, not race."
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, this is, you know, what people were afraid of. The reason you have the Voting Rights Act in the first place, the reason Dr. King marched for it, the reason that John Lewis was beaten for it, is because there are big chunks of this country where people will use any excuse in the world to disenfranchise the black vote, to push black voters into a position where the representatives don't represent them. This has been going on for centuries.
And so for a brief period of time in America, we have protection from the federal government saying knock that stuff off. But in the name of saying we want to be -- the Supreme Court says we want to be blind to race now. But what's happening is we're now being blind to racism.
That this is purely, in a lot of these states, in my home state of Tennessee, they are just deliberately going in and breaking up black blocks of representation in a way that pretends to be partisan but is actually racial. And it's a bad thing for America.
[20:35:17]
BERMAN: So again, their argument is it is partisan. They just --
JONES: Yes, exactly. But this is the thing in America, is that, you know, when we were a little bit wiser of a country, we realized, you know, that sometimes people say something's one thing, but it's actually another. And sometimes people say it's partisan, but actually there's a racial motivation there.
So the Supreme Court had the ability to, with the Voting Rights Act, said we can look beyond some of these nonsense excuses. Now the Supreme Court is not just blind to race, it's blind to racism. That's bad.
BERMAN: All right, Scott Jennings, you heard David Axelrod say that beyond these decisions, beyond redistricting, the President and Republicans are in a terrible political position heading into the midterms. To these rulings, does redistricting give Republicans the chance to hold onto the House?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. I mean, look, historically, the party in power would not do well in this kind of a midterm. But if you look at the redistricting that's gone on, Republicans do stand to pick up maybe 10 to 12 seats. We'll see what happens in Louisiana and South Carolina and Alabama. And so that will help them.
I was looking at a breakdown of the races and the sort of, you know, the crystal ball ratings today. Republicans are actually in a little bit of a position here where if they get a few things breaking right, such as having plenty of money and having candidates, you know, that can appeal to voters, they might be in a position to outkick their coverage.
I think the Democrats' problem is they tend to nominate people these days who are far outside of the mainstream in a lot of places, and they are suffering a little bit from a lack of financing. And when you look at what happened in Virginia, they just blew $70 million on a map that they knew when they started was violation of the state constitution, and they did it anyway. And now that money is gone.
And so that's quite a humiliation and a financial problem for their party over there. So, look, I'm not going to make predictions here in May, but I think that David had it right. It was a bad day for Democrats.
On Van's point, look, I don't -- I just would respectfully disagree. A, black voters are more than capable of voting in the elections, and they should vote. And Republicans or Democrats, whoever runs in these districts, are more than capable of representing them.
And so, no one's been disenfranchised. Everybody still has a right to vote, and everybody still has a right to run. And, you know, people still have to go out and win the elections. And I just disagree that this is somehow an empowerment of racism just because we're not mandating that Democrats get artificially, you know, 10 to 20 seats in the South. That doesn't necessarily help the black community, in my opinion. I think a lot of people are going to run for Congress who would do very well there in the black community.
BERMAN: Van?
JONES: Yes, I see it quite differently. I'm sure David does as well. You know, there's something called communities of interest. And if, you know, I'm from Tennessee, you have basically a black city that will -- and right now, by the way, it's represented by a Jewish guy, Cohen. So it doesn't -- it's not that, you know, always have to be a black person who is -- who's elected there.
But if you bust that up so that the northern part of the -- of West Tennessee is in play, it's much harder for Memphis to get its needs met. And so this is -- it's not accidental that the only people who like this are the people who've been racially hostile on that state. And the only people who don't like it are the people who've been for civil rights in that state. It's not an accident though.
BERMAN: So, David, what do Democrats do now? And I mean, the short term beyond appealing the court decisions. What do they do? How do they handle this in this election? And then what do they do heading into 2028?
You're, you know, you are from Chicago. Illinois is what I get the math wrong sometimes. 11-4, 11 Democratic, 4 Republican roughly there. Do you think Illinois --
AXELROD: 13-4, Yes.
BERMAN: 13-4, do you think that Illinois --
AXELROD: Maybe 14-3, maybe 14-3.
BERMAN: But the point is --
AXELROD: Yes.
BERMAN: -- Illinois could easily draw a map if it wanted to. That probably --
AXELROD: Well, listen, I think, we're, you know -- once the President threw the gauntlet down, we were in a redistricting war. And as is his penchant with war, he didn't quite think through all the subsequent steps. But nonetheless, we are where we are.
I will say this about about what Scott said. I'm old enough to remember. And it wasn't that long ago because he's old enough to remember, too. When Republicans in these states were arguing for these districts that allowed the election of African-Americans because they did not want African-Americans in their districts and they were making the argument that fans making. So, you know, this is an argument of convenience.
But the end result of it is, what, there will be fewer African- American members in the House. And, you know, we are better as a country when we have a representative body and where people aren't shut out by these kinds of devices. That's why Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act was written in the first place.
[20:40:01]
As to what Democrats will do, they've got to go out and compete. You know, Cook shifted 12 seats based on these redistrictings in the direction of Republicans. But it doesn't mean that Republicans are going to win those seats. I think there are several -- you know, in Texas, for example, they're not going to get the five seats.
I highly doubt that they're going to get the five seats they hope for, because I don't think they can count on the Hispanic voters that voted for Trump to come out and do it again. So I think Democrats will compete. But one thing Scott said to bear in mind, and I said I've been saying this consistently, the White House learned a lesson from 2018 and they have been accumulating massive sums of money.
Sometimes from people whose relatives have been pardoned by President Trump and donated millions of dollars to his Super PAC. But they -- I expect that they're going to have something like $600 million to spread across a couple of dozen districts and a handful of states. That money is going to have an impact as well. And for the first time in several cycles, you're going to see Republicans outspending Democrats.
BERMAN: 20 seconds, Scott, to respond.
JENNINGS: Yes, totally agree with David. Republicans are doing a good job stockpiling finances. I would not discount this voter or I'm sorry, this candidate recruitment issue. I think Democrats are in real danger of recruiting and nominating some people who just frankly exist too far on the fringe to appeal to what might otherwise be a purple. If they do that, it'll be a problem.
BERMAN: David Axelrod, Scott Jennings, Van Jones, have lovely weekends, one and all.
AXELROD: You too.
BERMAN: Up next, back to our top story. Insight from someone who caught hantavirus in 2010 and survived.
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[20:45:53]
BERMAN: Back to our top story, the hantavirus outbreak. And this Sunday's expected repatriation of passengers from the stricken cruise ship. It is worth mentioning again how rare the virus actually is. An estimated 60,000 to 100,000 cases a year globally. Only a few hundred a year in this country.
That said, in 2010, Jennifer Benewiat became one of them. And she is talking about it with us tonight.
So, Jennifer, you think you caught the virus around Christmas of 2010. But you weren't properly diagnosed at first. How did you eventually find out you had hantavirus? And what symptoms were you experiencing?
JENNIFER BENEWIAT, CAUGHT HANTAVIRUS IN 2010: The symptoms I was experiencing was extremely high fever. It was about 104.3. And I was having a lot of nausea and vomiting as well. I went to my regular doctor's office and they ran all the tests you can run.
And except for a lung X-ray on me. And if they would have ran the lung X-ray, they would have seen that my lungs were actually filling with fluid at that point. So I went to the ER the next day. And a doctor that I worked with at Central County Jail was there. And he noticed that I really wasn't doing that well and took me back. And then my oxygen levels just dropped immediately.
So another one of the doctors I worked with, she had seen these symptoms before because she was from the Four Corners area. And they actually got the test done because she was from that area. And she told them to test me.
BERMAN: That's lucky. I mean, that's lucky given how bad it was and how symptomatic at that point you were. And it was rough for you in the hospital. I understand your heart stopped three times in 10 days and you were put on a ventilator?
BENEWIAT: Correct, yes.
BERMAN: Yes, talk to me about what that was like, the recovery, once you were off the ventilator.
BENEWIAT: Well, I moved to a regular room in the hospital and I was there for about five days. And then they moved me to an inpatient treatment facility for rehabilitation. And I had to relearn to walk again because they had me on a couple of medications that I guess caused paralyzation.
So I was paralyzed from the neck down. I couldn't move my arms or legs at all. So I had to relearn to walk. I had to relearn to eat. I had to relearn to shower. I had to relearn everything because I just -- my muscles didn't remember how to do it. So it took me about a month in rehab to actually be able to walk again with a walker.
BERMAN: I mean, based on what you've been through, would you say this is the type of thing you've got to take very seriously?
BENEWIAT: I do. I think it's very serious.
BERMAN: Jennifer Benewiat, I have to say, it's great that you are here now to talk to us about it. What a story and what an ordeal you went through. Thank you very much.
BENEWIAT: Thank you very much.
BERMAN: So other news tonight on trying times for students and not just because it's final exam time, because the academic platform they rely on, Canvas, and they use this for tests and quizzes, for reading, to submit papers. This was hacked.
Users saw ransom notes when they tried to log on yesterday, demanding payment from Canvas' parent company, or else data from 275 million students, teachers, and others worldwide would be stolen.
Perspective now from technology journalist and CNN Contributor Jacob Ward. Jacob, what do we know about how this cyberattack unfolded? How did the schools and students realize they had a problem?
JACOB WARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, unfortunately, John, they found out the second they tried to log on. You know, one of the dramatic things that any hacker group tries to do is create the utmost panic across the broadest attack surface possible. In this case, that was the login screen. Any kid trying to get in and talk to a teacher or each other or the administration would get this ransom note essentially right in the login screen. [20:50:06]
BERMAN: Yes, I'll tell you how I found out, which is one of my college -- one of my two college freshmen texted me and said, Canvas hacked. So I got that message on my phone. So that's he -- how he found out yesterday afternoon. So who are the Shiny Hunters group who claim responsibility for this?
WARD: Well, Shiny Hunters, you know, is a cute name based on the Pokemon game, but they're a very uncute group. They have attacked over 140 some companies in the last few years and are really just extortion artists.
I mean, this is a business for them. And so they have gone after companies like AT&T. They've gone after ADT, the security company, Ticketmaster. They've also broken into the European Commission and got quite a bit of data out of them.
And now they seem to have moved from a more sort of corporate and institutional move to this, where they've gone for this soft target through which they can go for just one company, but get as a result thousands of universities worth of data.
BERMAN: So Canvas, they say, is back up. But what kind of information could the hackers have had access to here? We're talking about millions of students who use this.
WARD: Yes, well, happily for your child and for so many others, it doesn't seem to have been financial information. It may not have even been dates of birth, which is good news. The bad news is that it's all of the messaging that everybody on the platform thought was private.
So, you know, the communications between teachers, between teachers and students, all kinds of stuff. And as you know, that could include, you know, doctor's notes. That could include your household name, your parents' names, you know, all kinds of stuff like that.
I think the good news here, though, John, is that, you know, this is -- again, this is a business, right? They don't want to spend huge amounts of time, you know, filing through a million different little lines of code. And instead, they're just looking to extort these companies and extort, in this case, the universities.
And, you know, we've seen in the past that if you pay them, as one expert told me tonight, they just extort you again. And so in this case, presumably, the loophole has been closed. And now, hopefully, even though the data seems to be out there, this will hopefully be the end of it.
BERMAN: You talk about a soft target. What about a soft target at a vulnerable time? To what extent do you think that these shiny hunters, people, knew that all these colleges were in finals right now? This was a particularly sensitive time when all these students needed to be on campus.
WARD: That's absolutely right. I mean, if you are going to time any product release, right, whether it's a movie or anything else, you're going to do it at the optimum time. In this case, you're trying to create panic. You're trying to sow chaos.
And as a result, yes, of course, they're going to hit it right now when these universities are needing to finish off the year when all of this stuff is incredibly sensitive. Several universities, including Penn, as I understand it, were already in finals. And so it's absolutely the name of the game to try and sow chaos where you can. And they absolutely, of course, knew the academic calendar and the opportunity they had with it.
BERMAN: Well, the good news is we think it's back up.
Jacob Ward, thank you so much for your time tonight. Appreciate it.
So coming up, the first batch of never-before-seen UFO files released by the Pentagon. Details ahead.
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[20:57:14]
BERMAN: So, what exactly is this? As promised by the President, the Pentagon has started releasing what it calls never-before-seen UFO files, more than 160 in the first batch, some dating back to the 1940s. Among them, this video of this star-like thing captured, according to the Pentagon, in 2013.
With us now is astrophysicist Adam Frank, author of "Little Book of Aliens." So good to see you. So, this document dump of UFO files, what are the major revelations and how has your life changed?
ADAM FRANK, AUTHOR, "LITTLE BOOK OF ALIENS": Nothing at all and not at all. I was really disappointed. I mean, these documents are just more of the same. There are lots of fuzzy blobs. There's lots of, you know, unverifiable personal testimony.
And, you know, after the explosive testimonies that we heard at the congressional hearings, I'd expect a little bit more than that picture, a photoshopped image, you know, of a Tic Tac on a photo. So, you know, it was just more of the same, things we've heard for 70 years, and so I was really expecting a lot more.
BERMAN: Really? I mean, there's nothing here, all these pictures? Surely, surely there's something here.
FRANK: Sadly, there's not. I mean, listen, I haven't combed through the whole thing, but I did, I was randomly going through things, I spent the whole day on this. And there's -- let's put it this way, right? If it's true that the government has alien bodies in a refrigerator, you know, if you really want to put teeth in that claim, then show me some teeth, show me some alien teeth, show me a tentacle, show me something.
And there's, you know, you can't make the kind of claims that we've heard and just continue to show me blobby photos like this. Science doesn't work that way, there's no reason why anyone should believe these amazing claims when all we get are these kinds of things.
BERMAN: So then what does this tell you then, big picture, if you take a step back, in this is the document, these are the documents the President said would help people decide what the hell's going on here. So what does this tell you?
FRANK: What it tells me is that there's nothing, as a scientist. There's no real data here that we can work with to be able to work our way to a conclusion that Earth is being visited by aliens. And so that, you know, the claims that are being made about UFOs, unless someone shows us something -- some real physical evidence, right?
If I go to the doctor, I get my blood work the next day. Where is the document that shows the blood work on the aliens or the metallurgy on the ships we're supposed to have? At least show me that, if you can't show me the ship itself.
So I think what this shows is that the real hunt for aliens is not in these -- you know, it's not here on Earth, it's where aliens live, on alien planets. And we're getting very close to be able to get that kind of data. It's a really exciting moment for science, the science of life in the universe. But this just doesn't seem to be the place it's going to happen.
BERMAN: Professor Adam Frank, I'm glad you were here to share this moment with us to go through this --
FRANK: I'm so sorry.
BERMAN: No, it's OK. We just -- we want the truth here. Professor Adam Frank, it's always great to see you.
The news continues. The Source starts right now.
