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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Search and Rescue Underway After Venezuela Quakes Kill at Least 188; Johnson to Send Housing Bill to Trump After White House Meeting; All Three Mamdani-Backed Candidates Win New York Primary Races; Firm That Worked On Past Reflecting Pool Renovation Passed On Trump Project After Deeming It "Unfeasible"; Source: Luigi Mangione's Attorneys Discussed Plea Deal With Prosecutors In Federal Case; Jury At Standstill In Palisades Fire Arson Trial; American Doctor Treated For Ebola Back In The U.S. With Family. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 25, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: ...threat remains -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Jeremy thank you very much. Reporting from Tel Aviv for us and thanks so much to all of you for joining us. Remember, you can always follow us on Instagram, TikTok, X, Erin Burnett OutFront and you can check us out there. We hope you'll do that. Thanks again for being with us. AC360 with Anderson Cooper begins right now.

[20:00:22]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from the Newsroom topping our CNN global coverage tonight, the race building by building, even brick by brick working by hand to find people trapped by last night's double earthquakes in Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO OF VENEZUELA'S DOUBLE EARTHQUAKE. MAN IN PANIC SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Missing my mom, he's saying, covered in debris of the collapsed building behind him. This is the capital of Caracas. This is what it looked like at the country's main international airport when the tremors hit.

Though smaller scale structures did not do well either. Many, like these row houses, were simply shaking off their foundations, tipped over more or less in one piece. Some of the worst destruction is in the coastal region, just north of the capital, where buildings came down the way we've seen in so many other earthquake zones around the world, explosively with one floor after the other, pancaking down onto ones below it, creating in just a few seconds what can take rescuers days to search often by hand for anyone lucky enough to survive. That's what is underway right now.

And of course, it's not just the outgoing search and rescue operations, the ongoing ones, there's treating the injured housing and feeding thousands of displaced persons, reconnecting family members, comforting children. So far, at least 188 people are known to have died. And that number rose today and almost certainly will again.

Aid and aid workers are pouring in from the U.S. and around the world. More now from CNN's Isa Soares.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One of hundreds of thousands of moments just like it. Two earthquakes, 39 seconds apart, the most powerful Venezuela has seen in more than a century, striking on a public holiday evening across several states.

A friend in Caracas sent me this voice message. Cleveland Cartaya had made it out, but are still waiting to hear from several others.

CLEVELAND CARTAYA, VENEZUELA RESIDENT speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: You run and you fall, you bounce off the walls and try to get out of the building quickly. You think you're going to die.

SOARES (voice over): Families outside on the streets, in squares, just too frightened to go back inside. On social media images only now coming online. Luis Reyes and the elderly woman he cares for doing what thousands across Caracas did on Thursday night, they slept on the street.

LUIS REYES, VENEZUELA RESIDENT speaking in foreign language)

TRANSLATION: A lot of people are in the streets, in the squares, under the bridges. There are many homeless people, there are many people have been left with nothing. Truly, this is horrible, horrible.

SOARES (voice over): By daybreak, the damage is clear to see. This footage aired on State T.V. shows the utter devastation. And for the millions who fled violence and a crumbling economy in Venezuela in recent years, the night brought its own particular torment. Communications severed across the capital. The airport, as you can see, effectively destroyed.

It falls to the Acting President Delcy Rodriguez, to lead the response. A government still finding it's footing after Nicolas Maduro's capture by the United States in January, now facing the worst natural disaster in Venezuela in over a century.

Her government announcing a $200 million emergency fund. The death toll already in the hundreds and rising.

DIOSDADO CABELLO, VENEZUELAN INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): We have ordered, by instructions from the President, the cut off so that everyone is aware of the direct gas service to buildings, because we have some damaged structures, we do not want any kind of accident with the gas to occur.

SOARES (voice over): Venezuela has already lived through political rupture, economic collapse and the loss of millions of its people to immigration. For a country that already given so much. Now, this.

Isa Soares, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, that is the big picture. I want to go next to journalist Camille Rodriguez, who is in Caracas and had to evacuate her family after the quake. What are you seeing there tonight? If you can hear me, what are you seeing there tonight?

CAMILLE RODRIGUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, how are you? Well, it's been a very tough day, and it continues to be a very tough night for Venezuelan people. Behind me are rescue labors are still going on. There is finally a lot of police and firefighters. But I really want to --

[20:05:19]

COOPER: All right, Camille, I am sorry. We are having trouble hearing you. We're going to try to reestablish a better connection.

My next guest is a resident of Caracas who rode out the earthquakes along with his family and pet dog. He also works with the aid group project Hope in Venezuela, and toured some of the hardest hit areas today. I spoke earlier today with Cesar Jimenez.

Cesar, can you talk us through what it felt like when the earthquake hit?

CESAR JIMENEZ, PROJECT HOPE VENEZUELA STAFF: Yes. To give you an idea of the sheer force, I was actually at home with my family with when it all started. The most shocking part was how the intensity just kept building and building. It lasts so long about like 50 or 60 seconds. Just imagine trying to count to 50 while being violently shaken inside your house, okay.

So, we could barely stay on our feet and well, it was, it was pretty shock because we, we didn't have this kind of disaster since 1967 here in the capital, in Caracas.

COOPER: Did it feel like two separate earthquakes to you or one long one?

JIMENEZ: It happens very fast. So, it was like, it was like building up intensity. And then it was like, a little bit quiet, but then the intensity came back. But since we we're on a building, of course, like the movement within the building just kept even though the earthquake have like this little pause.

COOPER: The building kept moving.

JIMENEZ: It was pretty intense, pretty hard. Yes, the building kept moving, yes.

COOPER: And I understand you traveled to one of the hardest hit areas today. Can you talk about what you saw?

JIMENEZ: Yes, we, our team within the Project Hope Venezuela Team, we went last night to the health care facilities that we support here in Caracas, specifically in Miranda in Distrito Capital and this morning we went to La Guaira and it's actually, a heartbreaking scene right now.

There are still hundreds, hundreds of people trapped under the buildings and local civil protection teams are out there working nonstop, literally doing everything humanly possible to pull out our survivors, kids, grandparents, pets right now, and there's a critical need for support from search and rescue teams. Even though, probably even trained canine units to help us locate the people that are still buried before the time runs out.

COOPER: Are there a lot of search and rescue teams or K9 units on the ground that you saw?

JIMENEZ: We have seen many. Yes, we have seen many from the local authorities and local civil protection. But, the level of damage is so, so elevated that we were not prepared as a country. And I think no country is ever prepared for this magnitude of disaster. And of course, any support from other organizations and the partner organizations, international and local organizations from Project Hope is going to be a great support for us and for all of the communities here.

COOPER: Cesar Jimenez, I appreciate your time. And I'm sorry were talking under these circumstances, thank you.

JIMENEZ: Thanks to you. Thanks to you.

COOPER: I want to get some perspective now from Lucy Jones, who's a renowned seismologist, founder of the Dr. Lucy Jones Center for Science and Society she developed the methodology used for earthquake advisories in the state of California, Dr. Jones, how unusual is it for two earthquakes to hit the same area in quick succession like this?

DR. LUCY JONES, FOUNDER OF THE DR. LUCY JONES CENTER FOR SCIENCE AND SOCIETY: It's actually relatively common. I mean, an earthquake happens because you start moving on a fault and how far it keeps on going determines how big it is. So, in this situation, it started moving, stalled for a few seconds, and then kept on. So, it's being called two separate earthquakes. If there been a little less time between them, it would have just been one long earthquake. And as you heard, that's mostly what it felt like to the people who experienced it.

COOPER: And how long will aftershocks be a threat?

L. JONES: For years, these really big earthquakes, it goes on for a long time. It dies off quickly. It's one over time. So, however many earthquakes are on the first day, on the 10th day, you will have one tenth as many.

But you have there a lot of going on right now, and you get out into that long tail and it can keep on going. Largely, the aftershocks are very psychologically distressing and unfortunately very common.

[20:10:22]

COOPER: Is there something unique about Venezuela's position on the faultlines that would have contributed to the strength of these quakes?

L. JONES: Well, it's a plate boundary, those are the places that have the biggest earthquakes most often. It's very much like the San Andrea's fault in Southern California. It's a transformed fault moving sideways and they're moving about the same speed, that length of the fault determines the size of the earthquake. So, it's quite you expected the plate boundary every couple of hundred years. And to human time that seems very long apart to geologists that's very rapid.

COOPER: And obviously at this stage, I mean, we still don't maybe have a complete picture of the impact of this, the damage it's caused in the hardest hit areas.

L. JONES: Caracas is not on top of the fault, it started to the West. The rupture did move towards Caracas. And that tends to focus energy. But it's beyond the Eastern Edge of the fault. So, to the west of it, there are other communities that are that receive stronger shaking than Caracas did.

COOPER: There are obviously a number of challenges already facing Venezuela's infrastructure health care system before this. What do you see as the biggest challenges to recovery moving forward?

L. JONES: There are so many. I mean, earthquakes, all disasters break a system where it's already weak. So, the problems that Venezuela was already having with its economy, with the distribution of health care, all of those are just going to become much, much worse.

One thing they can do, if we could, if the international community comes together and gets aid in quickly, that helps a lot because you want to get the economy moving again. We see it as this immediate disaster, but the big, big earthquakes, the big disasters go on, they disrupt economies for years, for decades. And you could, the faster we can get them back, the less the long term impact will be.

COOPER: Dr. Lucy Jones, I really appreciate your time tonight, thank you.

For more information about how you can help victims of Venezuela earthquake, go to cnn.com/impact.

Just ahead tonight, what jurors just told the judge about reaching a verdict on arson charges in one of this country's most destructive fires ever, Palisades Fire. A live report from Los Angeles, where the news is now breaking. And new insight into the Presidents Reflecting Pool renovations, suggesting that rushing the job may have contributed to the problems. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:17:23]

COOPER: Just a day after the President said he would not sign a bipartisan Housing Affordability Bill and erupted behind closed doors at Republican senators, at the Capitol, House Speaker Mike Johnson emerged from three hours with him at The White House, claiming they are now, "on exactly the same page."

Speaker Johnson took no questions afterwards, but he did say he will be sending the Housing Legislation to The White House for signature, without saying whether the president has changed his mind about signing it.

Even as that meeting was happening, though, he was still airing his grievances with Speaker Johnson's members online, quoting him now, "House Republicans should unify and stop voting down rules or threatening to do so, giving power to the radical left dumocrats in the House to control what goes up for a vote will make our outcomes worse, not better. No more grandstanding, please. They are the dumocrats and we can't let them win."

The President, as you know, called off signing the Housing Bill because he could not get his voting legislation, the SAVE Act passed. He did that while Speaker Johnson and others were touting the bill as a major accomplishment for the GOP.

Outgoing Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, whom the President helped drive out of Congress, vented his frustration on the President's focus on election fraud at the expense of accomplishments like housing affordability that Republicans could run on this fall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): The problem is not the elections. We won the damn elections. The problem is we are wasting our opportunity that the voters gave us. And the Republicans are going to pay for that in November. It will be an absolute shellacking if they don't wake up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The President did achieve one clear cut win. He managed to persuade Republican senators Bill Cassidy and Rand Paul to change their vote so the senate could walk back a War Powers Resolution on Iran. Some Republican lawmakers also appear to be enjoying the primary victories of three New York Democratic House candidates, two of whom are Democratic Socialists.

Plenty to discuss tonight. CNN political commentators Van Jones and David Urban. So, David, yesterday you were concerned about what had happened. Is it clear to you tonight who has more leverage in the rift between the President and congressional Republicans? It seems like the President.

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Anderson, I think that the -- look, it is -- there are three co-equal branches of government and I think the President found that out because they asserted their -- you know, they asserted their right to say no. And the President listen, I think the President does have a point. You know, elections need to be reformed. A lot of things need to happen.

We've talked about this about what happened in California, a lot of things. Do elections need to be tightened and tweaked in America? Absolutely! But is the system totally corrupt and bankrupt? No. Otherwise, you know, as Mr. Massie pointed out, Republicans wouldn't have won the House, Senate and White House.

So, right now, I think that it is just a case of simple math.

[20:20:10]

The President needs to understand that you take a yellow legal pad and you go down and you put a yes or a no next to somebody's name, and if you don't have the majority of votes, you don't win. You can't move these things forward.

And, and I think, you know, he frequently in years past, when Nancy Pelosi was Speaker, he used to always say, you know, how tough she was and how much he admired her because she kept her -- you know, her caucus together. Nobody dare crossed her. She did kind of have their legs broken, proverbially.

And Republicans can't seem to do that in the House and so he gets upset about that. And the Senate, he doesn't have a unified Senate because of, well, a variety of reasons. Three -- you know, he basically made John Cornyn walk the plank and Cassidy and some others. And so, they are not too enamored with him.

So, I think that, you know, that this SAVE Act is not going to get done. Reconciliation is a very tough thing. And so, I don't think you're going to get where you're going to get.

I think you're going to get a Housing Bill signed. So, I think, you know, Congress won on this one, President zero.

COOPER: Van, how do you see it?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, he is managing to do a lot of good for Democrats, Trump is, because this week could have been a week where we were focused on the divisions in the Democratic Party, the Republicans trying to make sure housing was more affordable. A lot of these kids out here voting crazy ways are voting because they can't get a house.

We are not doing that. We are doing food fight politics inside the Republican Caucus and he is not focusing on stuff that Americans care about. There is no Americans clamoring for a radical overhaul of the voting system. Look, I am for voter I.D., but not -- you should have a driver's license to vote, but he wants to have a passport to vote. I mean, this is such an extreme to say that it is so extreme. The SAVE Act is so extreme! Even Republicans don't want it.

So here he is, focusing his party on something nobody wants and getting in the way of something everybody wants. Everybody wants housing affordability and he fumbled. We are halfway through the week, it is almost Friday, and he has managed to step on his own party's message.

This guy does not care about the Republican Party. He doesn't care about Americans. What he cares about is trying to make sure the elections go his way in November. He doesn't want those subpoenas from a Democratic House. That's what it is all this is about.

COOPER: I mean, David, you were frustrated last night. Do you think the President is focused enough on the midterms? Do you think he cares?

URBAN: I mean, Anderson, you know, listen, here is a sigh of exasperation. Right? Like I think that if he really focused, as Van said, if he really would focus on the midterms, he would think, listen, I going to do exactly what Van said. I am going to sign this bill.

We are going to have this housing -- we are going to have this, you know, signing or pass out a lot of pens. We are going to talk about how, you know, the average age of home buyers now is something like 40. It used to be 28. We are going to get back to that point. We are going to -- and then we are going to talk and pivot about all the, you know, the communist corridor that the folks that got elected, Chevalier who says, you know, she is against interracial marriage and she wiping her hands on the flag.

And I mean, the folks that just got elected in these Democratic primaries in New York make AOC look like she is a blue dog Democrat. I mean, these people are just the lunatic fringe. And so instead, as Van says, correctly, instead of talking about that and talking about like this great agenda that we have moving forward in the fall, we fumbled it.

And so, I would like to see the President focus on the things that help him, because as Van correctly points out, again, you know, there are going to be subpoenas, there is going to be oversight and he could go a long way stemming that by passing some bipartisan legislation that, you know, voters want to see.

COOPER: Van. I mean, what do you make of the Democratic Socialists in New York? Obviously, some centrist Democrats are concerned.

JONES: Well, look, you have to be concerned. You have to be concerned. You've got -- look, I used to be on the left side of Pluto. You know, I was a berserkly activist of the first --

COOPER: Were you a Democrat Socialist? JONES: Hey, listen, I was to the left of Democrats. I was out there with the best of them. So, but listen, you know, then I grew up and had a family and realized some of these ideas are nutty.

But to have somebody who, you know, their main qualification for being in our party is they were celebrating after October 8th, the murder of innocent Israelis; to have somebody in our party get the nomination whose main qualification is saying that there should be no police, no prisons, Israel shouldn't exist, this is a red flashing light. And I think people who have more reasonable ideas in this party going to have to start working, because what is happening is the establishment thinks that you can just buy ads, and that's going to get endorsements. That's going to somehow help you in.

Trump figured out or figured out the hard way, you can't win in Iran with just bombers if you have nothing on the ground. Moderates cannot win in these blue districts if they have nothing on the ground, if all they have are ads and endorsements and they don't have the door knocking army of the DSA, you're going to see more and more of these candidates.

Listen --

COOPER: DSA is Democratic Socialists of America.

[20:25:06]

JONES: Yes, the Democratic Socialists of America have a ground army.

COOPER: It is not an acronym a lot of --

JONES: Exactly. I am sorry. It is like, welcome to my world. Welcome to my world where you have to know the DSA versus TPUSA. It is a whole different world over here.

My only point is this, they've got ground troops and passion matters and a mobilized base matters and moderates keep thinking they can just say, shame on you and sign another check. You're going to put people on these doors; otherwise you're going to have people like this. And worse, taking over this party.

COOPER: David, have you been making donations to the Democratic Socialists?

URBAN: Yes, exactly. I am going to door knock for Chevalier. I am going to -- you know, Anderson, look, as Van correctly points out, you know, you go to where I grew up, right? Beaver County, Pennsylvania. What do you think someone like Chevalier who says, I ran out of napkins. I am going to wipe my hands on the flag. Right? Or, you know, some of the things she said are just abhorrent, right?

And she is now Democrats -- other Democrats in the State of Pennsylvania and other places are going to go after and have to answer questions about her. Do you stand with her? James Carville says, I don't want to be in a party with these people. Right? We have a schism. It is now going to become a fight inside the Democratic Party, when it should just be a layup, right? These midterms should be a layup for Democrats. The President's numbers are pretty low. But now the message is, hey, if you want these guys in charge right then, then go ahead, vote for them. Because look at what is going to happen.

They're going to empty the jails. They're going to do these. I mean, it is really the lunatic fringe. And that is what the message is going to be.

JONES: Luckily, they still are the fringe. But if people don't like it in my party, you're going to have to actually work, knock on doors, do real work. You can't just write a check and pray.

URBAN: But Van, as you know, that's where the excitement is in the party and Republicans are going to -- those ads are going to be clipped, she is going to be run!

COOPER: After the break, buddy. After the break, buddy!

URBAN: I can keep going.

COOPER: David Urban, Van Jones, thanks very much.

Up next, we have a CNN exclusive reporting on the Reflecting Pool. Why a contractor who has worked on it before turned down the job this time, and what that could say about the problems there now.

Also, late word on efforts by Luigi Mangione's attorneys to head off a federal trial. What we are learning about a possible plea deal. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:32]

COOPER: CNN has exclusive new reporting on the more than $14 million no-bid contract renovation to the D.C. Reflecting Pool, which has now been fenced off. A company that worked on the pool more than 15 years ago was apparently approached about the current remodel, but refused the job, partly because of the rush to have it completed by July 4th, and partly because the Trump administration wanted the bottom of the pool to be blue.

The project is a priority, obviously, for President Trump, but since the repairs, green algae returned to the pool and pieces of the American flag blue lining have been seen peeling off. The pool is expected to be drained and repaired again after July 4th celebrations.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is there now. So what did you learn about this other company?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, this is a New Jersey-based company called Sika, and they were part of these renovations many years ago during the Obama administration, and they were actually contacted by the Trump administration to have part and take part in this renovation now. And two employees who spoke with us in a condition that we would not reveal their identities of that company said that the company considered it, they looked at the proposal, but they ultimately decided against it, against being involved this time around for two specific reasons.

One, as you said, the demands of the Trump administration that this project --

COOPER: Hey, Sunlen, sorry, I got to ask you about -- hey, Sunlen, I just got to ask you what's going on down there, because obviously someone's got a megaphone.

SERFATY: Yes, I'm glad you asked. I'm sorry for the audio, but I do want to explain what's going on over here. And my photojournalist, Manny (ph), can move the camera over. There's a bit of a protest, a small protest. Some people wearing algae shirts out here, team algae shirts and other shirts. We've been watching them for about, you know, 20 minutes now.

They seem to be airing grievances writ large against the Trump administration, certainly the reflecting pool among some of the top concerns here, but they have listed a whole bunch of concerns from the Trump administration as well as Epstein files.

There have been many tourists here that have get into -- minor squirmishes with them. Two young adults came by just a few minutes ago waving U.S. flags, chanting USA, USA, really speaks to how this reflecting pool, Anderson, has become the epicenter of a lot of the political grievances about President Trump. Also the epicenter of people, you know, worried about the direction of the country and certainly has become a flashpoint here.

Many tourists I talked to said they came down to the reflecting pool because -- for the first time because of all the controversy this iconic landmark has created in the last few months. But back on your questions about this company in New Jersey who turned down the opportunity to again work on this reflecting pool, they turned it down because of the July 4th deadline that the Trump administration wanted this to be completed by.

They also turned it down specifically because the request was to paint the bottom of the pool blue. Two employees that we spoke to said that those demands were unfeasible, and that's why they decided to sit this out and should be noted that this is a company with institutional knowledge about this reflecting pool and the renovations. So that's just one more layer here into the criticism that's stacking up against this project.

And today we saw many Hill Democrats in the House Oversight Committee start to request many documents and information from the contractors who were solicited to get involved and ultimately accepted the contracts to get involved with this next round of renovations. Anderson?

[20:35:00]

COOPER: All right. Sunlen, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Just as a footnote to the protests there, the President obviously has denied wrongdoing in connection with the Jeffrey Epstein case. There is breaking news as well in the 2024 assassination of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson on the streets of Manhattan. Comes with suspect Luigi Mangione due in federal court on Monday, and the news concerns efforts by his legal team to head off a trial.

CNN's John Miller has the reporting. He joins us now. So what do we know about these plea deal discussion?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, all week I've been talking to people trying to figure out what are the parameters of these plea deal discussions. Did they happen? Did they come close? Are they going to happen? And there was a hearing scheduled for Monday, which still is scheduled for Monday, in federal court.

He's about to go on trial in state court, and these were discussions about the federal charges, which are also weapons possession and using a weapon in a homicide, which is a federal charge. So it turns out the discussions did happen. That they went on for some time.

The caveat here is that's not unusual in any serious federal case where the lawyers will --

COOPER: It would be normal to have discussions --

MILLER: Where they'd ask that question, well, how old is your client? How many years? You know, is it 20? Is it 30? If we did a plea? So those discussions happened. Ultimately, they did not come to common ground on it, so that will not likely come up in Monday's hearing at all.

Here's the really interesting thing about it, though. In New York state, not every state, but in New York state, the law says that you can't be tried in a New York state court for a charge that you've already been tried for in another court. So had they reached a plea deal on the murder or the gun or some other charges and then walked into state court and said, well, we have a plea in federal court, and, you know, you have to take those charges off the table, that would have thrown a real wrench into the process in the state case.

COOPER: So there's been plea deal discussions. What kind of a sentence does Mangione face if no deal is reached?

MILLER: Well, in the federal case, he can face life. In the state case, he can face life. It's the reason you'd have those discussions, because anything short of life, you know, would be some kind of advantage. But --

COOPER: Previously, the -- their defense had been talking about arguing a psychiatric defense.

MILLER: So they had -- there had been a closed hearing. We didn't know what happened in that hearing, but it appears that that was all about the strategy of going with a psychiatric defense. Under New York state law, there is a defense that he wasn't of his right mind when he did it.

And that's something they asked for, and then 24 hours later, withdrew it. I don't know what happened in that strategy case, but I do know the challenge at trial would have been to say he wasn't of his right mind at the time he committed the murder if you took the jury through all of the meticulous steps in planning to show that he knew right from wrong and he meant to get away with it, which he almost did.

COOPER: So the idea that there was, you know, evidence of preplanning, well-thought-out plan, you know, organized plan to escape as well, allegedly would argue against --

MILLER: That he was incapable of rational thinking at the time of the murder. A lot of rational thinking went into that.

COOPER: John Miller, appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Coming up, breaking news in the Pacific Palisades arson trial. A juror is now at a standstill, and the judge weighing whether to end the proceedings altogether.

Plus, my exclusive conversation with Drs. Peter and Rebekah Stafford, both of whom were working in treating patients in the Congo when Peter contracted Ebola.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PETER STAFFORD, AMERICAN DOCTOR WHO CONTRACTED EBOLA: That was a difficult time. I had a high fever. I had weakness. At times, too difficult even to walk on my own, needing support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:43:02]

COOPER: A year and a half after fire devastated the Los Angeles neighborhood of Pacific Palisades, jurors say they have essentially deadlocked on charges against the alleged arsonist. In a note that the judge read out loud in court today, they declared themselves, quote, "at a standstill."

CNN's Nick Watt is at the courthouse for us with more. So what's the latest?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a pretty extraordinary scene, because first we were told there was a verdict, and then we were told, no. The jury has sent this note in which they say they cannot reach a unanimous decision, and they even underlined the word cannot. They said they've got people dead set on either side of this argument.

There was then a little bit of, I would say, desperation in the voice of the government side, trying to figure out what they could do. The judge sent a note back saying to the jury, listen, is there anything the court can do to help? The answer came back, no.

Here's the issue. This case, Anderson, is built entirely on circumstantial evidence. The government has painted this guy, Jonathan Rinderknecht, a 30-year-old former Uber driver, as an angry guy who didn't have a date on New Year's Eve, who hated the rich, who went up above the Palisades and lit a fire near a home where he used to live, a beautiful home where he used to live during a previous relationship.

So nobody is disputing that Jonathan Rinderknecht was on that hill. He also had a lighter in the glove box of his car. But nobody saw him light the fire. There's no video of him lighting the fire. There's no other forensic evidence that he lit that fire. And he has not confessed to lighting the fire.

So, as I say, this case, entirely circumstantial. And as his defense attorney said, listen, I could sit here in court and play tic-tac-toe. I don't have to prove anything. The government has to prove he did it. And according to some members of the jury, the government has not done that.

Now, the other wrinkle here, Rinderknecht is accused of starting this fire January 1. Apparently, it was then put out, but carried on burning underground and then rekindled when those winds kicked up on the 7th, causing the Palisades fire, burning 37 square miles.

[20:45:05]

Anderson, you were here. You saw it. You saw the damage. 6,000 plus structures and killed 12 people. But right now, it's in the balance as to whether this trial is a mistrial or whether we get some kind of other verdict. Anderson?

COOPER: What's likely to happen when court reconvenes tomorrow?

WATT: Well, so, the judge and the lawyers are going to come in at 8 and try and figure out what they do next. Now, they're going to, at some point, have to ask each individual juror what their position is. They will also probably, at some point, do what the judge will issue a call like a dynamite charge, saying, guys, jury, please try again. And if not, then we're going to go to a mistrial.

And that word has already been used inside the courtroom. It looks like that is where we're heading. But, Anderson, there are also civil cases. People are suing the city, the state, various other entities over this fire. And it's really interesting.

There has not been an angry horde of Palisades' residents who lost their homes in this courtroom, baying for this guy's blood. One woman who did lose her home, I was talking to her yesterday, she said, I don't want this guy convicted if he's just a patsy. I want to know the truth. And she thinks the truth will come out in these civil trials.

But for now, we've got a guy, Jonathan Rinderknecht, who is facing 45 years if convicted, but could find out tomorrow that this is a mistrial. And then the government has to decide, what do we do next?

COOPER: Appreciate it. Thank you, Nick.

Now, some worrying developments in the Ebola outbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo. An Ebola response worker who traveled from the DRC to France is the first patient to test positive outside of Africa, according to the French Health Ministry. More than 1,000 cases have been confirmed in the DRC, making this outbreak the second largest on record.

Last month, an American doctor, Peter Stafford, contracted the virus at the hospital where he and his wife, Dr. Rebekah Stafford, worked. Both doctors have lived in Congo, in DRC, since 2021. They and their four kids were evacuated to Berlin, where Peter was quarantined and treated in a hospital. He's since recovered.

Peter, Rebekah, and their kids are now back in the U.S. I spoke to both of them for an exclusive interview just before airtime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Peter, first of all, how are you doing right now? How are you feeling?

P. STAFFORD: Oh, I'm doing very well, thank you. Very thankful to be at this point where I am today compared to a month ago. So pretty much back to my baseline. I'm doing well.

COOPER: I want to show you some photos of you being evacuated from DRC to Berlin. And can you just kind of walk us through what that was like, how you were feeling in -- at that time?

P. STAFFORD: Yes, that was on a Tuesday, about four days into my illness. And so, Monday night and Tuesday were kind of the worst days for me. And so, I had initially been where we live in Nyankunde and then was transported to Bunia on Monday night and then ultimately to the airport there on Tuesday.

And so that was a difficult time. I had a high fever, I had weakness, at times too difficult even to walk on my own, needing support. And then was ultimately placed into that isolation chamber. Very, very thankful for those who were involved in our evacuation.

COOPER: And Rebekah, for you, what was going through your mind as all of this is happening? I mean, worrying about Peter, obviously, your own exposure as a doctor in that hospital and your four kids, all of whom are under the age of seven.

DR. REBEKAH STAFFORD, AMERICAN DOCTOR EVACUATED FOR EBOLA EXPOSURE: Yes, it was a hard couple of days. I was busy because I had to prepare to leave. And so I was thankful for that because that gave me something to focus on rather than worrying too much.

But there was worry for Peter on one side and then watching the world kind of mobilize to help my husband and seeing my Congolese friends and knowing that they would not get the kind of care that Peter did. And so that was -- holding those two things together was really overwhelming in some ways. COOPER: Can you just talk about, Peter, what -- for both of you really, what it has been like working in this outbreak and, you know, just the difficulties of it? Obviously, you're taking great personal risks and have for a long period of time, but can you just talk about what it's like seeing Ebola up close as you have?

R. STAFFORD: Well, we never knowingly saw it up close.

P. STAFFORD: Yes, we -- you know, my last day of work was one day after the Ebola epidemic was declared. And so, we had heard for several weeks of an illness circulating, particularly to the north of us in this town called Mongbwalu, that there were increased deaths, even some episodes of abnormal bleeding. And so we were certainly concerned that an illness like Ebola was possible.

[20:50:11]

So I was exposed very likely about seven or eight days prior to when the epidemic was declared, certainly unknowingly at the time. And I developed symptoms beginning one day after the epidemic was declared. So from that point on, you know, I was sick and we were working towards being evacuated.

COOPER: Rebekah, how have your kids been through all of this?

R. STAFFORD: Our kids are doing really well. We're very, very thankful. The younger three, I don't think really comprehended what we were going through as a family, but our oldest son definitely understood, telling our kids, hey guys, your dad has Ebola. And he has that disease that we were talking about and you're not allowed to touch him, you have to stay away, you can't go in his room and I can't promise you that he's going to be OK. That's tough.

COOPER: I know you're in touch with colleagues back in the hospital in DRC in Congo. What are you hearing from them? Obviously it's important, I know, to everyone that the Congolese people are not lost in this conversation, that there are still so many people suffering and so many people who have lost loved ones.

P. STAFFORD: Yes, they've been through a lot. Initially the response seemed to be a bit delayed. They were going to work with inadequate materials, with inadequate personal protective equipment, really putting their lives on the line. And thankfully the response has picked up.

Where we live in Nyankunde, there's an Ebola treatment center that opened about a week ago and so that's been a big encouragement to the team that is there. You know, they're a bit optimistic, but the epidemic continues to unfold. It's not well controlled yet at this point.

COOPER: Peter and Rebekah, can you just talk a little bit about why you want to do this work, the calling that you feel?

P. STAFFORD: There are many things that have drawn us to Congo and to Nyankunde in particular through the years. You know, we've had various people in our lives, mentors, various experiences and trips that I think God has used to direct us to Congo and to Nyankunde.

We see it just as a great opportunity to try to share God's love, particularly through health care, to work in an area where people are under-resourced, who have been through so much trauma, through so much difficulty, and just to try to come alongside them, to work with them. And so we love it. We view Congo very much as our home. That's our friends and our family that are there.

COOPER: And you plan to return. Do you know when you'll be able to go back?

P. STAFFORD: I think in order to take our family back, the epidemic needs to be under better control, potentially with the development of a vaccine or something like that. But we, Lord willing, will certainly be back. Our time frame is more probably along the lines of six months or something like that.

COOPER: Well, Peter and Rebekah, thank you so much for talking to us. I think what you do is really extraordinary, and I appreciate you giving us some time. Thank you.

P. STAFFORD: Thank you so much.

R. STAFFORD: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Remarkable work they do.

Coming up, my conversation with actress Sharon Stone for a new episode of my podcast, All There Is. She speaks about the complicated relationship with her mother, Dorothy, and the complicated grief she has after her mom died in 2025.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:57]

COOPER: New episode of my podcast, All There Is, was just released right now. My guest this week is actress, writer, and artist Sharon Stone. In 2001, she had a near fatal stroke and brain hemorrhage. It took her nearly seven years to recover, and she now says she's living her second life.

Sharon has experienced a lot of loss and a lot of very complicated grief, particularly over the death of her mother, Dorothy, who died in 2025.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON STONE, ACTRESS: My mom behaved often as if she didn't like me at all. She had a very, very awful childhood and was removed from her home when she was nine because she was so violently abused. When my mom died, she was at my house and I was taking care of her.

She was terrified to die because she was afraid her parents would be there. So I had to lie to her and tell her that her father was in jail and her mother was in a mental hospital. And they weren't going to be there. And in the night that she was dying, she was really fighting it.

And it was down to those moments where they titrate the morphine and they're like, oh, she's going to die in four hours. And my mom was holding on and holding on. And I finally realized I have to let go. I need to stop walking in the room.

I need to go upstairs and ignore my mother so she will die. I need to detach and release. And she's only going to die if I let go. Which was hard because I wanted those things, Anderson. I wanted her to say, I'm proud of you. I love you. I'm sorry. You're important to me.

And I wasn't going to get them. And I had to make peace with the fact that my mom was not going to do that. In order for her to die in peace, I had to release her. And sometimes the person that the person is meanest to, you find out is the person they're most attached to. Because they feel safest to take it out on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, you can listen to the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts or watch the entire episode at CNN.com/AllThereIs.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.