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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Senators Grill Hegseth; CENTCOM Confirms 11th Consecutive Night Of Strikes In Iran; Interview With Rep. Jason Crow (D-C); NJ Gov.: 6,600 Non-Citizens Mistakenly Added To NJ Voter Rolls; Presumptive Maine Dem Senate Nominee Faces Scrutiny Over Temperament; The Battle Within The Democratic Party; Wreckage Of Pan Am Crash Found 74 Years Later Off Puerto Rico. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 21, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: They collect that content. They have those interactions with people trying to shop here. And then they post it to social media.
We did reach out to a couple of social media companies, both Meta and YouTube, they say that they do have compliance rules. They require that you have to comply, including harassment -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right. Kyung, thank you very much. That was just fascinating. Kyung Lah reporting as she said from Los Angeles. Thanks so much to all of you for being with us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:35]
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Just moments ago CENTCOM announcing day-11 of U.S. airstrikes on Iran and today, the country's top defense official was asked to explain how the military, he said, was "destroyed and made combat ineffective just days into the fighting."
That was more than four months ago, is still a deadly threat right now. John King here in for Anderson, that question came up late in Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's appearance today before the Senate Appropriations Committee. He was there seeking nearly $70 billion in new funding for a war he has already said he said has already cost about $38 billion. But he spent a good deal of his time being asked what that money has bought so far and how his and the administration's claims about the war square with the reality of today. Here's part of an exchange. He had a lengthy exchange with Georgia Democrat Jon Ossoff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): Mr. Secretary, you stated four months ago that Iran's military had been rendered, "combat ineffective for years to come." Has Iran's military been for the last four months combat ineffective?
PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's been set back not just years, but likely decades. OSSOFF: Early in the conflict, day three, you said one of those core objectives was to, "destroy the missile threat." And as you restated on day five to, "obliterate Iran's missiles and drones," those were clearly and repeatedly stated core objectives of the campaign, which four months ago you declared had been completed victoriously with every single objective achieved. Were those objectives achieved four months ago?
HEGSETH: No one ever stated that every single missile was gone. Ultimately, combat ineffective means they're not able to dig them out of their UGFs and --
OSSOFF: --had the missile threat and defeated four months ago.
HEGSETH: It doesn't mean they don't have underground facilities where they put missiles in them and hold on to them because they're the world's largest state sponsor of terrorism.
OSSOFF: So just to review, you will not answer whether your statement made on the 14th day of the war that Iran's military had been, "destroyed and made combat ineffective," was a truthful statement to the American people as you sit here and ask for tens of billions more for the conflict.
MODERATOR: The senator's time has expired.
HEGSETH: That historic and effective military campaign against the largest state sponsor of terrorism, ensure they never --
OSSOFF: Won't answer the question.
MODERATOR: Senator --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, keeping them honest whatever you might make of the senator's questions or the secretary's answers, if all of the administrations war aims had been achieved already, the war would be over and it's not. The missile strike on Americans in Jordan made that tragically clear. And it seems the effort to disable Iran's nuclear program also goes on, at least according to the President. Listen to what he said today about the possibility of striking the suspected nuclear site inside Pickaxe Mountain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We'll be hitting that area very probably pretty soon. And there's not a not a thing they can do about it. You know, normally I wouldn't say that if I thought they could do something about it, I would never say that. But we'll be hitting that area pretty soon and very heavily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, the President has threatened this before and tonight Iran repeated it's warning that a strike on that facility or any other nuclear site would be treated as a major expansion of the conflict, a war the President today suggested was nothing compared to other wars Americans have endured in our history.
You can see this in the post right there. The President listing the death tolls showing the far lower death toll in this war, which is certainly true, but it also comes on a day the Pentagon released the name of a third American killed over the weekend. Sergeant Michael Swinton, who was fatally wounded during the controlled detonation of an Iranian attack drone.
Secretary Hegseth did not mention any of this weekend's casualties in his opening remarks. The Joint Chiefs Chairman, General Dan Caine did at the outset of his remarks. Secretary Hegseth did, however, give testimony casting doubt on what we've heard from the President repeatedly. The suggestion that Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz and attacking its neighbors was somehow unforeseeable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): The Department of Defense has been planning for potential operations against Iran for many, many years, and one of their obvious assumptions was that the Strait of Hormuz could be closed. Were you unaware of that?
HEGSETH: Senator, you are correct. Nobody plans more and looks at more contingencies than our department. And so, of course, undertaking a historic effort like this of this scope and scale. Of course, the Strait of Hormuz was front and center in every single aspect of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The President, as you know, is on record saying, "nobody expected Iran to target U.S. Allies in the region" which, of course, is not true. Here's the President back in early April, seeming to marvel at how easy it is for Iran to close the Strait.
[20:05:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We can bomb the hell out of them. We can knock them out -- but to close the strait, all you need is one terrorist that somehow has a truck loaded with -- because you can carry them in trucks, large trucks a water mine. Drop them into water and now you tell people that own ships that cost a billion to, don't worry about the mines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We left you last night. A tanker was burning off the coast of Oman, and shipping through the Gulf was down to a trickle that remains so tonight. Let's go now to our senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes. Kristen, the President says he's going to attack Pickaxe Mountain. He says that will happen likely soon. Number one, he has said that before. So, is the urgency real this time? And is it clear what the plan is beyond that? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, John, we haven't even heard about Pickaxe Mountain until a week and a half ago. And now it seems to be the center of President Trump's fixation. Now, that is likely because of the intelligence that Israel has, that Iran had moved some of those centrifuges, as well as some of the highly enriched uranium to that location, which is deep under the ground. But President Trump has now been saying that for a week and a half. We just saw an announcement from U.S. Central Command that they've begun their 11th night of strikes.
Unclear if this would be a night that they might actually strike Pickaxe Mountain. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of experts out there who don't actually believe that there are capabilities to go that deep underground, to hit that nuclear facility. And Pete Hegseth was asked specifically about this. He was incredibly coy. He said a lot of what the capabilities are for the U.S. are classified. But if anybody in the world can reach anything, it's the United States.
All of this to say, it is unclear what the plan moving forward was. President Trump was asked that today during a meeting in the Oval Office. He got testy with a reporter saying, oh, do you know something that I don't know. And the reporter really just laid out what we've seen the idea that Iran has not stopped fighting, the idea that after saying that there was a ceasefire, after saying that we were close, after saying that the United States had essentially demolished the entire military, they were still fighting, and the United States was still at war with Iran.
And as you know better than anyone, this war is not something that these Republicans or President Trump want to be dealing with at this time. But yet still, it seems unclear what the plan is moving ahead.
KING: And the Truth Social post we showed at the top where the President lists the historical numbers of war fatalities, for him to do that would suggest he's sensitive or defensive about this to some degree. Obviously, there's been some polling out recently. Two-thirds of Americans don't think this is a war worth fighting. What are the conversations inside the White House? Is it they think they need the President needs to explain this better, or are they sensitive to the politics? What is it?
HOLMES: They understand that this is a huge issue. It's not just the polling. It's also the American deaths. We are now seeing more Americans dying in the last weekend than we had seen since the beginning of this war. You're looking at four soldiers. President Trump will attend that dignified transfer. He is angry about the deaths -- and this is something that he cannot seem to shake, to get away from. And you're right, we don't have any details yet. Exactly, of what happened, leading to at least some of these soldier's deaths.
So, the conversations inside the White House, from my conversations with these U.S. officials is, how do we get out of this? Or how do we at least press the pause button on this for long enough to be able to start messaging other things, to be able to focus on the economy, to be able to walk away from this war in Iran. And to be very clear, having four people die in a weekend, U.S. soldiers, the most again, since the beginning of this war, is not getting the United States further away from this war in Iran. It's actually bringing them further in.
KING: Kristen Holmes at the White House, thank you. And before I get to our next guest, I just want to ask the White House, I mean, the Control Room, if you could put that picture up again of the four servicemen and women who will come home tomorrow on quite a somber day. Whatever your views on this war, take time the next 24 hours to remember these heroes and their families.
Joining us now is the Colorado Democratic Congressman Jason Crow, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee and the Intelligence Committee. He's also a former U.S. Army Ranger and paratrooper who served three combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Congressman, you understand the point I was trying to make there. I want to come back to that in a minute. Did Secretary Hegseth make the case for all that money today?
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, John, I just -- I have to just pick up on your last point. This is not abstract. This is not an academic exercise.
KING: No, it's not.
CROW: This is very, very real for the 50,000 service members and their families who are in the region, 18 who have given their lives. And frankly, I'm just, I take such great exception to Donald Trump's Truth Social post, where he seems to imply that it's only 18, it's only 18 service members. Why should we be concerned about it?
Well, you know what, it matters a lot to their families, to their and sisters, to their kids. And it's exactly that mentality, frankly, that shows why he is unfit to serve in this role, because he disregards human life. He disregards the cost and this is exactly how we end up 20 years into an endless conflict that Americans don't want.
We are done! Americans are done with endless conflict in the Middle East, spending trillions of dollars, American lives while they can't afford to pay for their health care, they can't afford to pay their rent and their mortgage. This is insane and we have to call it for what it is.
[20:10:38]
KING: At the moment, tell me if you know another route. The only way would be, well, there's two routes. The President and the Iranians could come back to the table and they could stop it, or Congress could choke off the money for it. And they have no choice. Again, Secretary Hegseth General Caine up there today asking for billions more. You're in the minority in the House. Republicans also control the Senate, but not by a lot of votes. Are they going to get this money?
CROW: You're damn right, I'm going to try to shut off the money for it because that's my job. My job is to sit here and to hold administrations accountable. And I don't care whether it's Republican or Democrat, but I'm not going to support sending our sons and daughters, our brothers and sisters, and our hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayers to some endless conflict. Again, that is not making American's lives better. We have seen this before. I came of age during the time of Iraq and Afghanistan. I served three combat tours in these wars. I saw people give their life for this. So yes, am I going to try to cut off funding for this war? You're damn right I am right, because it is the right thing to do and it's our obligation.
And I'm going to do everything possible to try to force votes and to hold people accountable. And if there are people under this Capitol dome who are unwilling to do their constitutional job, to vote up or down on a war powers vote, and then they go home and be held accountable for it, then fine, I'm going to hold them accountable for it. We're about to recess at the end of this week, and were and go home to our districts for the next six weeks. And I tell you what, Americans should be absolutely livid.
If their member of Congress refused to take a vote and refuse to be held accountable for what's happening right now in this lawless, reckless war.
KING: Congressman, sir, you mentioned your service, three combat tours. You're also, again, on the Armed Services Committee and the Intelligence Committee. You know, a hell of a lot more about these things than I do. And that most people watching when you hear the President of United States sitting in the Oval Office saying, were going to bomb Pickaxe Mountain, and probably very soon, we're going to hit it hard. There's nothing they can do about it. Do you see any strategic gain to be made, any strategic reason, any war, justifiable military strategy for doing that?
CROW: No, I don't, and John, I'm going to make something also really clear here. I'm no pacifist, right. I'm a National Security Democrat and I won't hesitate to use our military to use our power to protect Americans and to protect American interests if it's necessary. But yes, I get pretty hot when someone like Donald Trump, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, pounds his chest and talks about how tough he is and how much he's going to bomb some mountain that no one's ever heard about. That's not going to give someone health care or put food on the table for my constituents. And he acts all tough just because he wants to do that, and he wants to be in charge, right?
So, I am not going to allow that to happen. And that's the difference, the difference between people who are smart and strategic with our power, who will use it for good and will use it in the right way, versus those who are so detached from the consequences of military action that they don't care. And they're running amok as if, as this administration currently is doing. So, that's why we got to rein it in.
KING: Congressman Jason Crow, grateful for your time tonight, sir, thank you.
CROW: Thank you.
KING: Thank you. Up next, two more views on Secretary Hegseth testimony today. What an Iraq combat veteran and NATO's former supreme allied commander make of it.
And later, a remarkable story, 74 years later, the wreckage of a historic plane is found.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:16]
KING: We're talking tonight about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's testimony, 144 days into the Iran war and 11 days into the latest air campaign. He used some of his time, though, to lash out at his predecessor, the former Army General Lloyd Austin, quoting the Secretary now, "I don't know what Lloyd Austin did for four years, I really don't."
He also and not for the first time repeatedly invoked another name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: The disaster of what the Biden administration budgets gave us. It was not a priority to fund the Department of Defense under Joe Biden.
The American people didn't want to sign up for what Joe Biden was providing our military. This is rebuilding our military from what was not funded in the past under the Biden administration.
The Biden administration ignored hypersonics. While the woke priorities of what the Biden administration was pursuing an austerity mindset, again, that goes back to the Biden administration, why this kind of spending is needed is because of the gross negligence and neglect of the Biden administration inside our department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, there may be a legitimate debate about priorities and programs, but just for reference, defense spending rose in every year of the Biden administration you could argue maybe it's not enough, or it should have been redirected this way, but spending went up every single year.
Joining us now, CNN senior military analyst, former NATO supreme allied commander, Admiral James Stavridis, and CNN senior political analyst Adam Kinzinger, who flew combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Congressman, I want to start with you. I get it, it's a new administration criticizing the old administration comes into it. But on this day, with the importance of this request, is it Joe Biden's fault?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I mean, look, this is the fallback. Whenever they get in a corner, it's default, and it's probably a good rhetorical thing to do if you want to just try to win an argument, which is default to whataboutism and Joe Biden, but no, Joe Biden didn't launch this attack on Iran. I mean, actually, Pete Hegseth should have been spending this effort today selling the American people on what the goals are in Iran. If they knew what the goals were in Iran.
I mean, it just this constant going back to blaming Biden, like you said in the lead up. Look, there are things you can criticize in the Biden administration. Certain priorities that they didn't have that maybe they should have. But this war was launched by Donald Trump and he launched it. And on day two was saying, basically, it's going to be over quickly. it's over.
[20:20:35]
And then made the cardinal mistake not just of launching the war, but then when he decided to negotiate, stopped the strikes and gave the Iranian's breathing room, allowed them to recover, they basically flooded oil out to gain as much money as they could. And now were starting, in essence, from not square one, but square two on this. And then we're wondering why it's not effective. I mean, they have run an ineffective strategy using only the military and not the other instruments of power they need to use.
KING: Admiral, one of the points of conflict during the Secretary's testimony today was over his term that he said months ago, more than four months ago, that Iran's military had been, "destroyed and made combat ineffective." You might speak a different language in the military at the Pentagon than laymen do. So, help us. From what you have seen so far, including the tragedy this past weekend. We had the strike in Jordan and then during the detonation of a drone, four fatalities of U.S. heroes. Is it fair to say Iran right now is combat ineffective?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: No, of course not. And, as we always say, and my fellow veteran Adam Kinzinger would agree, anytime you go into combat -- A, you don't know what's going to happen. And B, the enemy gets a vote. And I'll guarantee you the Iranians have been watching what's happening in Ukraine. They're watching the use of UAVs, new techniques of combat, the ability to find ways to apply artificial intelligence in the battlefield. They're creative. They're innovative.
I don't admire them, but I respect their ability to wage war. And that's what you're seeing here. So, to say they're combat ineffective is quite clearly not correct. And then just a second overarching point to be made here is the ongoing cost of this in billions and billions of dollars. And above all, in the lives of these brave servicemen. I see the faces of the three who have been identified, one African American, one a Latino woman, one a White male. I mean, this is America. These are our sons and daughters.
So, the costs are rising, the success is not apparent. And I agree with Congressman Kinzinger. I don't see the strategy.
KING: Well, to the point, Congressman, about strategy and looking forward, you heard the President at the top of the program saying he's going to bomb Pickaxe Mountain, and he says he'll do it very soon. Wall street journal reporting today that according to Israeli intelligence, Iran has moved thousands of uranium enrichment centrifuges deep inside that mountain.
President Trump says he's going to bring it up. It also came up in the Senate hearing, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Do we have the ability to destroy whatever is underneath Pickaxe Mountain?
HEGSETH: Senator, a lot of our capabilities are classified. But if anybody in the world can reach anything on this, on God's given -- God's green Earth, it's the United States military, the most powerful military in the world. It's all about options and tradeoffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Congressman, how do you interpret that?
KINZINGER: Yeah, I mean, either there's something they're not saying or I don't know. I mean, it's look, it's clear that I mean, the Secretary is right. If anybody has the capability, it's us. But I don't know why the President is out there foreshadowing what he intends to do anyway.
So, let's say we have the capability with, you know, however many bunker busting bombs or something that maybe we don't know exists out there. I don't know why you need to lead with that. I mean, and this is where it gets to what President Trump does a lot, which is he thinks he can talk his way out of this, or he thinks he can kind of intimidate his way out of this. And that's exactly what he's trying to do.
The reality is we are at the intersection now, as the admiral was saying, we are at the intersection right now between 20th century warfare, early 21st century warfare, and later 21st century warfare. War is going to look a lot different. It's going to be cheaper. It's going to be weapons that are returnable, weapons that can be mass produced. And we're kind of stuck in this old way of war.
And we need to be not investing in, you know, other wars that we don't necessarily that the American people are not bought into, but into the next generation, the next way of fighting war, which is, by the way, why we should have a strong alliance right now with Ukraine, because they're leading the way on the battlefield for what, the late 21st Century war is going to look like.
[20:25:09]
KING: Admiral, the Congressman was talking about, sometimes the President's words get out ahead of things or he's talking about the flag he shouldn't. Today, he played down the prospect of the Houthi blockade of the Strait that connects the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden, saying, if it happens, "We'll just have to take care of business."
Number one, should the President be talking publicly about this? And what does he mean by that? And what would the options be?
STAVRIDIS: Just to level set for everybody? You're showing the Strait of Hormuz. We've been very focused on it, 20 percent to 25 percent of the world's oil, gas and fertilizer goes through that. Iran famously has closed it.
What is just to the left, just off the map you're showing is another Strait. It's on the lower left-hand corner of the Arabian Peninsula. It's the key to the Suez Canal, John. And it's the bottle neck; you see it right there at the bottom of the graphic. Think a cork in a bottle down there. What's at the north of that body of water, the Red Sea? It's the Suez Canal.
That's 15 percent of the worlds trade goes through there. These Houthis who are Yemeni rebels, they are creatures of Iran. They're going to enter this conflict, I believe. And when they do, it's not, believe me, as simple as saying, oh, we'll just take care of that. We ought to be laying the groundwork now to get our allies involved in this, because the U.S. Navy, I tell you, this is a former admiral and commander, has stretched kind of thin. So, let's get the allies prepared to be with us if we have to get into this, a new Western Front in this war.
KING: Admiral Stravidis, Congressman Kinzinger, thank you for your time tonight. And just ahead for us, he's the frontrunner to replace Graham Platner now as Maine's Democratic Senate hope. But part of Troy Jackson's past is now raising tough questions for his supporters and for Democrats nationally. And later, what Michigan voters are telling me about a Senate primary that divides Democrats there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:21]
KING: Today, New Jersey's Democratic Governor Mikie Sherrill made a stunning announcement that roughly 6,600 non-citizens had mistakenly been added to the state's voter rolls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKIE SHERRILL (D), NEW JERSEY: Currently, the Division of Elections is working to ensure anyone who is illegally registered is removed from the voter rolls. Initial analysis shows that fewer than 400 newly registered individuals voted in an election due to this software error. They were registered as Democrats, Republicans, and the majority unaffiliated and were scattered across the state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, according to the Governor, the issue wasn't discovered for a year and she wasn't informed of it until this past Wednesday. Again, as the Governor said, about 400 of the non-citizens actually voted. Governor Sherrill is saying she has no evidence that that was enough in any election to sway an election.
The White House, though, quickly releasing a statement that read, in part, "This latest incident underscores the absolute necessity of the SAVE America Act."
Let's bring in for conversation, CNN Senior Political Analyst David Urban, Gretchen Carlson, the journalist and co-founder of Lift Our Voices, and CNN Political Commentator Bakari Sellers.
Gretchen, if you look at this in full context, the system failed, then the system corrected itself. But this is a gift if you're out of context in the world of social media or the President's claim, as he did in the primetime speech, that this is happening everywhere. Kind of a gift, isn't it?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: From a PR perspective, John, this is a huge gift to Trump because, you know, he's going to exaggerate, as he always does, and say that if it's happening in New Jersey, that it's happening everywhere. Now, I'm not naive enough to think that this couldn't be happening in some respect in small numbers in other states.
But the questions for me tonight are, why didn't Governor Phil Murphy of New Jersey uncover this? He obviously knew about it before Mickie Sherrill. Why didn't he bring this to our attention? And also, it's important to note that I'm not sure that this revelation would have actually stopped these people from voting.
In other words, the SAVE America Act that Trump wants to pass, I'm not sure that that would have stopped this because they actually checked the box that said non-U.S. citizen. It was a software glitch that gave them the ability to vote. Why those 400 people then thought that they could vote is a whole other question. But I'm not sure the SAVE America Act would help in this case.
KING: That's a critical point. They were all honest. They checked the box saying they were non-citizens. The issue was the software, and then I'm sure they got notice and, hey, here's your election day, because they were in the system.
David, look, the President thinks this is a huge issue. No one here is defending the failure of New Jersey's government. But is this really something that should be jumped up and down about saying, aha, here's your huge problem?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, John, do I think it's a, you know, a deal breaker in every state? No. But does it undermine voter confidence in elections? Yes. And is that bad for American democracy? Yes. Democrats can't keep coming on TV and saying this never happens. There are not undocumented, you know, immigrants voting in elections.
Well, here's case one of it happening. It's happening in New Jersey. I guess it's happening in other states as well. So you can't say it with such definitive certainty these days. You know, everyone was kind of laughing at Donald Trump coming on TV, like you said, and saying this is all going on. But do I think that it's swaying elections? Probably not.
But look, John, there are elections. You remember the Oz-McCormick election, we -- you know, primary, 900 votes. There are elections that come down to hundreds of votes in statewide elections. So it matters. Every vote matters. And so it does matter. But more so it matters because it undermines integrity of the election system. It undermines people's confidence in our electoral system.
[20:35:07]
KING: Bakari, Governor Sherrill seemed to get that. Gretchen noted this at the top. She was furious publicly at Governor Murphy, saying that she wants accountability, including understanding why didn't they deal with this, and why weren't they transparent about what happened on their watch?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think she's right. And I think that if I have to agree with David Urban, it does undermine, you know, voter confidence. I mean, that's something we're trying to rebuild. But there's nobody who undermines voter confidence in our election systems more than Donald Trump.
And we've seen throughout the country where there are instances of voter fraud. Usually, not always, you have a Republican here or there. I mean, we've seen cases like Colorado, et cetera, Iowa. But this is something that has to be dealt with.
I think that Governor Sherrill deserves a great deal of credit because she identified the problem. She found out about the problem. And instead of sticking her head in the sand, which some Democrats have a tendency to do, she actually yelled it from the mountaintops. She said, this is the problem. This is what happened. This is why this happened, and let's go fix it.
This is not something that sways elections. Voter fraud does happen in the country. It just does, but it's on such a small scale. But let me just tell you this, John and everyone else listening. Donald Trump did not win the election of 2020. As much as he wants to relitigate that, as much as he wants to say it's because of voter fraud, Donald Trump was not the winner in 2020. And that's what this all goes back to.
So let's work together on a bipartisan fix, and let's not undermine elections in this country.
KING: Gretchen, let's turn to Maine. Obviously, a huge Senate race there. You have to replace Graham Platner with a new Democratic frontrunner, is former State Senator Troy Jackson. Now he's facing reports, a little bit of backlash over allegations over the years. He's had some angry outbursts, including some directed at women.
Now, no one complaining this with the allegations against Platner, but you have a short runway now to get ready to run this race. Is it a problem?
CARLSON: You know, look, there's a big difference between rape accusations and throwing a water bottle at somebody, right? There's a big difference between rape allegations and even sexual harassment. I would also say that he's now in the national spotlight. There's tons of people that are running for Senate that are not getting the scrutiny that he's getting.
But, you know, I think sometimes when there's smoke, there's fire. So we have a short little runway now to see if anything else crops up before the deadline in about a week. I also would just say that it's pretty tough when you have President Trump, who's been able to supposedly get away with sexual misconduct allegations, and also isn't the best with decorum.
I mean, he started out his campaign by making fun of a handicapped person, and that somehow was not a big deal. So I think it's tough to argue that this is disqualifying. You know, what is the bar?
KING: David, to that point --
URBAN: Yes. So -- yes. So --
KING: -- the President just had to pay -- before you jump in, the President just had to pay. He lost all the way up to the Supreme Court, just had to pay $5 million to E. Jean Carroll. I assume Susan Collins might make this a temperament issue, right? I'm calm. You know me. I'm moderate. Maybe some of you think I'm too calm. I'll look at him. Can the President and national Republicans go anywhere near this, given his history?
URBAN: Listen, John, this -- Maine, nobody wants the President in Maine anyhow. Maine is a completely different state, right? Susan Collins is running on Susan Collins' record. She's running on a record, a distinguished record of, you know, a bajillion years in the Senate.
Troy Jackson, you know, has at least the reports I've read, you know, Gretchen, are only women. He's only yelling at women. He's not yelling at tough men. He's not screaming at David Urban. He's screaming at, you know, a minority woman and other women and getting in their face and throwing things.
That's not a guy. Nobody does that. Bakari doesn't do that. John King doesn't do that. I've never known anybody that gets in a woman's face and screams and gets red-faced and loses their mind, like this guy's been reported to have done in the past.
CARLSON: I know tons of people.
URBAN: Oh, he's passionate. He's -- well, I don't know any, Gretchen, so maybe we run in different circles. And maybe you should find some new friends. This is a despicable guy who's getting in women's face --
CARLSON: I'm not saying they're my friends.
URBAN: -- in the legislature. Well, you shouldn't -- if somebody got in your face, Gretchen, and was yelling at you like that, you know, the one woman who was like the minority leader threw him out of her office, rightfully so. I mean, and so to somehow to normalize, oh, it's OK, he's passionate about it, or to bring this about Donald Trump, this is about Troy Jackson being a loose cannon.
CARLSON: I said where there's smoke, there's fire.
KING: Well --
CARLSON: I said where there's smoke, there's fire potentially.
URBAN: I would bring a fire engine to Maine. Bring a fire engine to Maine.
CARLSON: OK.
KING: We need to leave it there for time tonight, but we'll continue the conversation as we go forward I'm sure as Maine makes its formal choice at the convention.
David Urban, Gretchen Carlson, Bakari Sellers, appreciate your time. Thank you.
And up next for us, my All Over The Map segment from Purple, Michigan, where the Democratic Senate primary is a giant test for the big Democratic family feud over the party's direction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:10]
KING: A little flashback moment here to the last election. Guess what? 15 weeks from tonight, we'll be counting midterm election votes and learning, among other things, whether Republicans can hold their House and Senate majorities. The House clearly in reach for Democrats. The Senate, though, a much tougher challenge.
Democrats need a net gain of four seats. Priority one defending two currently blue seats in battleground states, Georgia and Michigan. The incumbent, Jon Ossoff, is the Democratic candidate in Georgia. But incumbent Gary Peters is not seeking reelection in Michigan. So there's a primary there in two weeks.
The contest is expensive, sometimes nasty. And it is the biggest stage yet for the insurgent versus establishment fight we see all across the country underway in the Democratic Party. So we made it our latest stop for Our All Over The Map series.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): A packed church basement on a steamy summer evening.
ABDUL EL-SAYED, MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: My friends, money out of?
CROWD: Politics!
KING (voice-over): The insurgent keeps it simple.
EL-SAYED: That one again. Money out of? CROWD: Politics!
EL-SAYED: Money of your?
CROWD: Politics!
EL-SAYED: Medicare for?
CROWD: All.
[20:45:08]
KING (voice-over): And he pulls no punches.
EL-SAYED: Eight shouldn't be able to dominate our politics. Corporations shouldn't be able to dominate our politics. Chuck Schumer shouldn't no longer be Senate leader for anything.
KING (voice-over): Abdul El-Sayed is 41, the son of Egyptian immigrants, the former Wayne County health director.
EL-SAYED: No, I don't pay my taxes thinking, man, I can't wait for Israel to get another tank. I can't wait for Egypt to get another set of bombs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much. Thank you.
KING (voice-over): Another church meeting hall, also just across the Detroit city line.
REP. HALEY STEVENS, MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: This is the best of Michigan.
KING (voice-over): Haley Stevens is 43, in her fourth term in Congress. Before that, worked for President Obama's auto industry task force.
STEVENS: The work that I was a part of when it mattered. You know, the work that we cannot forget.
KING (voice-over): No talk of revolution here. It is, yes, old school.
STEVENS: Big old rallies are nice things. I want to see who's in the neighborhood. I want to see who has pastor on speed dial, mayor on speed dial.
KING (voice-over): Promises to take on Trump, tax the rich, lower health care costs. But also talk that sometimes compromise brings progress. And a reminder, this is purple Michigan. Stevens flipped a Republican held seat to get to Congress.
STEVENS: I became the first pro-labor, pro-power of the people, Democrat, since before the moon landing, to hold that seat.
KING (voice-over): The roots of this fight, don't go back quite that far. KING: Michigan had a huge role in the first round of this insurgent versus establishment battle in the Democratic Party. That was a decade ago. The fight card, Bernie Sanders versus Hillary Clinton. Now, this state and this Senate race, by far, the most consequential test.
As the revolution, that's what Sanders and his allies call it, tries to prove not only that it's back, but that it's bigger, deeper, stronger. And that this is its moment to remake the party. Mamdani in New York, a handful of blue congressional districts.
Graham Platner in Maine, until he imploded. But this race is bigger. It's a 2026 midterm battleground Senate race the Democrats simply cannot afford to lose. And Michigan will have a huge role in both the nomination chase and the general election in 2028, when we pick the next President.
TONYA RINCON, MICHIGAN VOTER: Yes, first day on this challenge.
KING: First day.
KING (voice-over): Tonya Rincon worked the Ford assembly line for 30 years. Her initial Senate choice quit the race.
RINCON: So I'm all the way in for Abdul.
KING (voice-over): Rincon rejects the idea he's too liberal to win statewide. Her worry is what might happen if El-Sayed loses the primary.
RINCON: There are some young people that are falling in love. And I do worry that if Abdul doesn't win, they will be disenchanted, just like the Bernie-Hillary kind of thing.
KING (voice-over): Nearly half of Michigan's population lives in Detroit and it's close in suburbs.
KING: So this is Dearborn, suburban Detroit, majority Arab and a big piece of why Vice President Harris lost here in 2024. She lost statewide by 80,000 votes just here in Dearborn. She got 15,000 fewer votes in 2024 than Joe Biden did when he won Dearborn and won Michigan in 2020.
15,000 votes in one small city. Why? Arab American voters mad. Mad at Biden and Harris for what they thought was a green light to Israel and Gaza. Now those voters are mad at Trump. He's the President. El-Sayed hopes to tap that anger. He says he will be their voice.
He says he will stand up to Trump, who he calls a dumbass, who lets Israel run his foreign policy. And he says he'll also stand up to a Democratic establishment that he says is still beholden to AIPAC, the pro-Israeli Political Action Committee. It's a huge issue in the Democratic Party right now and a giant defining issue in this race.
KING (voice-over): Walter Robinson Jr. lives in neighboring Dearborn Heights. Its population, 40 percent Arab. Affordability is by far Robinson's top issue. He is voting El-Sayed because he's a union guy and he trusts the United Auto Workers endorsement process.
WALTER ROBINSON JR., MICHIGAN VOTER: There's a lot of people that it feels like that the union shouldn't tell them what to do or how to vote. But like I said, connecting the ballot box to your bread box is vitally important.
JADE GRAY, MICHIGAN VOTER: What's your favorite spot you visited in Michigan so far?
KING (voice-over): Jade Gray is 22, just a year out of college. But she's worked as a Democratic organizer for five years and helped her first campaign at age 12 in 2016.
GRAY: I think we're seeing two paths emerge for the Democratic Party. And this is going to be one of a few examples of where we're really headed.
KING (voice-over): Gray takes El-Sayed's side of the Israel divide.
GRAY: One is an AIPAC-backed candidate who is, you know, unapologetically pro-thank you Israel. And, you know, Abdul is against that.
KING: But she's very critical of Netanyahu.
GRAY: Right. She's critical of Netanyahu. I appreciate that. But who she's funded by, I don't think walks that walk. I like seeing a candidate who's, you know, unapologetically anti-Zionist.
ROBB LIPPITT, MICHIGAN VOTER: We got it going.
KING (voice-over): Robb Lippitt is more than patient with a pickleball novice. And he is more than anxious about this primary, a common topic during weekly matches with friends.
[20:50:09]
LIPPITT: I think they're creating litmus tests suggesting that Israel shouldn't exist or being unwilling, as El-Sayed is, to affirm the idea that Israel has a right to exist as a state doesn't move us closer to peace.
KING (voice-over): Lippitt sees El-Sayed as part of a broader troubling Democratic shift.
LIPPITT: The socialist drift of the party and the hardline and somewhat radical positions that they take are not good for the state or good for the country.
KING (voice-over): He loathes Trump and wants a Democratic Senate. But Lippitt says he and many other Jewish voters will face a painful choice if El-Sayed wins the primary.
LIPPITT: I think there are a lot of people that won't vote for El- Sayed. I think --
KING: Are you one of them?
LIPPITT: Probably. I don't feel like the Democratic Party is a safe space.
KING (voice-over): Traverse City is along the spectacular Lake Michigan, population 16,000. Northern Michigan is mostly rural, in every way a long way from Detroit and its suburbs.
Ashley Ayala lives in a town of 1,500 people, works for a nonprofit conservation group.
ASHLEY AYALA, MICHIGAN VOTER: There we go.
KING (voice-over): These goats working one section at a time to clear rural land.
KING: What do you want from the Democratic Party? What's missing?
AYALA: Oh, I mean, there's a list of things. Where do I start?
KING: We got all day.
AYALA: Excuse me.
KING (voice-over): Health care and child care costs are her biggest stresses, and she likes what she hears from El-Sayed there. But Stevens has appeal, too. Ayala thinks her experience might help get things done. Sometimes things, her more moderate views, might help in November, especially in rural areas like this.
AYALA: When it comes down to pen to paper, it'll be, yes, it'll be -- it'll end up being who is going to -- who has a better chance at winning.
KING: You're not sure who that is right now?
AYALA: I don't. I have no clue.
KING: Do you see yourself as kind of a referee, one of the referees, the voters, in kind of a Democratic civil war or a failing feud?
AYALA: I've always been a referee my entire life. Yes.
KING (voice-over): Ayala knows it's a giant choice for Michigan and beyond. And there's just a bit more time to chew it over.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And this campaign, the last campaign, is an issue as this primary plays out. Remember, you see the numbers right there. Donald Trump won Michigan in 2024 by 80,000 votes, the vice president losing. Well, in the same ballot that year, Democrat Elissa Slotkin won a Senate race.
Even though Trump was carrying the state, the Democrat won by 19,000 votes. Stevens' allies say that's proof a more moderate candidate can win. They say it happened in 2024. It can happen in 2026. Plus, the Republican nominee is the same guy.
Mike Rogers is running again for the Republicans. But El-Sayed allies say forget about that. They say this is not 2024. This is 2026. Trump is in the White House now, and all the energy is directed at him. But this state is huge in presidential politics every time, and everyone there knows it. This is a defining test, as you get what we saw here in New York with Mamdani.
In Maine with Platner beforehand, El-Sayed versus Stevens is a defining moment. And two weeks from tonight, we count the votes in Michigan.
And up next for us, after 74 years, a Pan Am plane finally found, remarkable, deep in the Atlantic Ocean. How the wreckage was discovered and why the crash changed aviation forever. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:40]
KING: Tonight, an aviation mystery going back more than seven decades is solved. A search team has located the wreckage of a Pan Am plane that crashed in 1952 off the coast of Puerto Rico. The story will be told on an upcoming episode of the Discovery Channel's "Expedition Unknown." And full disclosure, Discovery is part of our parent company.
More on this from CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, look at that!
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the search team, the discovery of the lost Pan Am plane is a sensation. After 74 years in the sand and salt water, many thought this Douglas DC-4 would never be seen again. But there it is, ghostly images of the aluminum body, the wings, even the logo, found after years of tireless work by the Air Sea Heritage Foundation, the Discovery Channel, and Deep Sea Vision, which brought a highly advanced underwater drone.
JOSH GATES, HOST, "EXPEDITION UNKNOWN: And that sonar vehicle, which is autonomous, went down to almost 2,000 feet below the surface. When we first saw the sonar imagery and saw the outline of that plane, it just took our breath away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fly first class or tourist on Pan Am's radar- equipped Super 7 Clippers.
FOREMAN (voice-over): In the decade after World War II, as civilian air traffic boomed, Pan Am was a global leader. The Clipper Endeavor promised a then-quick eight-hour trip from Puerto Rico to New York City on Good Friday, 1952.
But shortly after takeoff, two of Endeavor's four engines failed, along with efforts to turn back. The old accident report says all aboard survived the violent watery impact, but passengers were not told where life jackets were located or instructed in their use prior to ditching.
Confusion over life rafts and escape exits followed as the plane sank in three minutes. Seventeen people survived amid pitching seas and swirling sharks. Fifty-two did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome aboard.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But the flight arguably has saved many, many lives since, because it directly led to the creation of regulations requiring passenger safety briefings before every takeoff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Locate the exit nearest to you.
FOREMAN (voice-over): A legacy for the living from dozens who were lost for so long and whose resting place now has been found.
GATES: This flight and this tragic accident really changed aviation, fundamentally changed it forever, and we're all safer because of this accident. And so I think we owe them a real debt of remembrance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on-camera): Of course, Discovery and CNN are owned by the same company, and Discovery plans to have a show about all of this later in the year. What they do not plan to do is in any way to disturb the wreckage or the remains of these folks who lost their lives so many years ago.
So very tragically. John?
KING: Tom Foreman, thanks so much.
And the news continues. The Source starts right now.
