Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Major Primary Races Across Five States; Stevens and El-Sayed Go Head-to-Head in MI Senate Primary; Rep. Max Miller Speaks to CNN and Denies Abuse Allegations; Rep. Miller Vows To Continue Re-Election Bid, Denies Abuse Allegations; Key Primaries In 5 States Could Shape Fight For Control Of Congress; Senate Committee Advances Blanche's Atty. General Nomination; GOP Sen. Susan Collins Says She's Voting "No" On Blanche; El-Sayed & Stevens Face Off In Pivotal Michigan Senate Dem Primary. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 04, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Look at this, yes, he is leading amongst White men, but that lead has been cut by more than half. Trump won them by 43 points. Ken Paxton is only up by 21 points. If a Texas Republican can only win among White men by 21 points, you may very well get the first Senate Democrat from Texas in a generation.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Also, a big question of what it means about enthusiasm here amongst that exact group. Great to see you, Harry, thank you so much.

ENTEN: Great to see you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Kate Bolduan. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:40]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: It is election night in America with primaries in Michigan, Virginia, Washington State, Missouri and Kansas.

I'm John Berman, and the first polls are closing right now in the swing State of Michigan and all eyes are on the Democratic Primary for Senate.

Now, I do want to note there is breaking news in the controversy over embattled Republican Congressman Max Miller, who is facing allegations of domestic abuse and calls from within his own party to step down.

He was defiant in an interview with our own Jake Tapper just a short time ago. We're going to have much more on that a little bit later in the program.

First, though, Michigan progressive candidate Abdul El-Sayed is facing off against the more moderate Congresswoman Haley Stevens. The biggest daylight between the candidates appears to be their stance on Israel. El-Sayed has criticized U.S. support for Israel, while Stevens defends Americas funding of Israel's military.

El-Sayed is endorsed by the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party. Stevens is the establishment favorite. Their race seen as a proxy war for the Democratic Party as a whole. We're going to go live to El-Sayed's campaign headquarters, Steven's campaign headquarters, John King is standing by at the Magic Wall as returns come in throughout the hour.

Another key race to watch Democratic socialist Cori Bush, the former Congresswoman from Missouri who was a member of the squad trying to take back her former seat from moderate Democratic Representative Wesley Bell. And as we learn more throughout the night, we're going to have analysis from our all-star political panel.

Let's start off, though, on the road at campaign headquarters. Chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny is at the Haley Stevens Party in Detroit. Jeff, what are you seeing there?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN, CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the polls have just closed here in Michigan. I'm talking with advisers and supporters of Congresswoman Haley Stevens, they explain their mood like this hopeful optimism, but realistic optimism. The reality here is this establishment race really the full weight of the establishment, the Democratic Party establishment has been behind her, but they are going headlong against this Progressive movement.

It hardly started here in Michigan, but tonight could be a big answer in terms of the direction of the Democratic Party and Haley Stevens has been campaigning up and down this state, of course, in 2018, she won a Republican held house seat in the Detroit suburbs here.

She's been in Congress, but that means that she is effectively an incumbent. She is a been a campaigning as someone who can get the job done. Talking about bills she passed. But the appetite and the mood among voters is one for change. And that has been very complicated for her, there is no doubt.

The Governor of this State, Gretchen Whitmer, endorsed her a couple of weeks ago. Aides tell me they thought that that would move this race. It is unclear if it did in the final hours of this campaign. The governor was not at her side. Some former senators, like Debbie Stabenow, was members of the establishment. But you certainly get the sense, John, that the energy and the momentum is on the side of the progressive insurgent and not tonight on the side of the establishment.

BERMAN: I've seen a few campaign parties with much more enthusiasm than behind you right now, Jeff, when they talk about realistic optimism, that speaks volumes. All right, Jeff, thank you very much.

ZELENY: To be fair, John.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

ZELENY: To be fair, the doors have not opened here for supporters. Her supporters were out getting out the vote. So, this will open up fairly soon. So, it will be a different picture here. Theres no doubt we should just make that very clear that were in here. But her supporters have not yet been let in -- John. BERMAN: Great point. We will wait and see the people behind you. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.

Let's go to Arlette Saenz at Abdul El-Sayed's headquarters in Detroit. What are you seeing there, Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: well, John, Abdul El-Sayed supporters have been allowed into this event already, and there is a lot of optimism coming from his supporters and his team that he will emerge as the victor in this Democratic Primary this evening.

And speaking with a senior adviser tonight, they told me that one of the reasons they believe El-Sayed has been successful in this campaign is because he has had a very consistent messaging, really leaning on three phrases of getting money out of politics, money in your pocket, and Medicare-for-All.

And I can tell you, in speaking with El-Sayed's supporters throughout the day, after they cast their ballot, they repeatedly pointed to the influence of outside money in this race as being a main driver of their vote. They have expressed a lot of frustration with the more than $60 million that was poured into this contest on behalf of Haley Stevens, including more than $30 million from the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC.

But take a listen to some of, how some of the voters framed their votes in today's election.

[20:05:19]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET DILLARD, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I don't want somebody in somebody else's pocket that they have to agree to what they want to. You know, so many people like that in politics.

ROME MOORE, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Abdul.

SAENZ: And why is that?

MOORE: Because he doesn't take money from AIPAC. I'm not voting for anybody who takes money from AIPAC.

SAENZ: And why is that?

MOORE: Because the money should be spent here, not over there.

SHEMAJ SHELTON, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Overall change in people who had an independent view and thought process of what's right for the voters, not what's right for corporate PACs or what's right for any affiliations that support them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, this primary is a real test for the progressive movement, which has seen a lot of success in very blue areas like New York City and Denver in recent months. But now they're allies of El-Sayed in the progressive community are hoping they can replicate that, those types of wins here in a very swing and purple state of Michigan.

So many will be watching closely to see how this all turns out. They are hoping that the progressive Democrat will emerge as the victor to take on the Republican candidate, Mike Rogers, in November, a race that would really tell us a lot about the State of the Michigan, but also the future of the Democratic Party.

BERMAN: All right, Arlette Saenz, keep us posted throughout the evening. Thank you very much.

With us now, our political panel, who will be around throughout the hour, former special assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings, Republican Pollster Kristen Soltis-Anderson. Former senior adviser of President Obama, David Axelrod, and former special adviser to President Obama, Van Jones.

And David, let me start with you. Just aside from the fact that Haley Stevens should maybe open the doors to her election party a little bit earlier.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That that may say something about staff work.

BERMAN: How big of a test? Arlette Saenz was saying this was a test for the Democratic party in Michigan. How big of a test do you think this is?

AXELROD: Well, I don't know if it's a test for the Democratic Party, but it's a test for the political establishment itself. What's interesting to me and Arlette alluded to it, is that Haley Stevens' campaign and those mostly those supporting her, have spent like $65 million in advertising to the $7.5 million that El-Sayed's people have spent, and folks supporting them.

That is a huge advantage and to think that they are hoping that what they say about optimism, hopeful, realistic --

BERMAN: They were saying, cautiously optimistic, but realistic at the same time.

AXELROD: At what point does realistic optimism cross paths with pessimism? I'm not sure.

BERMAN: I think it did when they said it to --

AXELROD: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So, that's an extraordinary thing when you think about that spending differential. And the other thing is that if you look at polling and Kristen sitting here, who knows a lot about this. The age break in this race is unbelievable. I mean, he is winning among voters who are younger than 45 by like 40 and 50 points.

It's really hard for me to see how you overcome something like that. So, there is a real movement sense there now. Have I sufficiently avoided your question about the Democratic Party?

BERMAN: We'll come back; we'll get back to that. But you name check Kristen here. So, you're doing focus groups. You've heard from a lot of voters. What are they saying about this type of race?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, for voters right now, they're looking for someone who's going to fight. And you know, normally you might think, oh, well, somebody can point to their record and say, here are the things I voted for. Here are the concrete accomplishments I've made.

Voters right now are just looking for people who can perform that they're going to fight, that they are going to say that they're going to fight, and they try showing it by saying, look, I'm not going to take money from here. I'm not going to take money from there as a start. But voters on the Democratic side have been hungry for a combativeness that they feel they have not seen from their establishment.

And so, in some ways, you know, this is going to be viewed, I think, correctly, to an extent, as the leftward lurch of the party and the base is moving more leftward. I think that's true. But I also think it's about sort of temperament, optics, tone. Who is going to be the more combative fighter. That's what Democratic base voters want.

BERMAN: Okay, Van Jones, what are the stakes here for Democrats?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, this is a whole ball of wax. I'm from Jackson, Tennessee. There was a guy named Gil Scott Heron who had a great poem. It was called "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised". Gil Scott Heron is wrong. The revolution is being televised and podcasts and streamed and elected tonight. Why is that?

It's because there is a credibility gap that's opened up between the Democratic Party establishment and this insurgency. People are looking at people and they're saying, you've been telling us the same thing for a long time, and our lives are not getting better. We got Donald Trump twice.

Theres also an innovation gap. Why can you spend $60 million and get whooped like this? Because the old model was you get the donors to get the consultants to buy a bunch of ads and you win. That's how you get attention.

This movement says, I don't need donors, ads, I don't need I don't need consultants. I'm going right to the people with TikTok and grassroots, and they've disintermediated the entire donor class, disintermediated the entire consulting class and this is a revolution.

And so, this is going to happen again and again. The Democratic Party is now Blockbuster. These kids are Netflix. We are selling CDs out the trunk. This is Napster becoming Spotify and it's happening tonight.

[20:10:43]

BERMAN: So, Scott, is this the type of thing that makes Republicans nervous? Do they have a preferred outcome tonight?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Republicans like, Republican operatives, have viewed this very clearly for months now. Abdul El-Sayed is clearly going to win. We've known it for a long time. I think a lot of Michigan Democrats fooled themselves into believing they had a chance to beat him, but he clearly had the momentum for months and months and months.

I don't know how you can talk about this race without talking about the continuance of this issue of Israel and how Jewish people are being treated in this country and abroad right now.

I mean, you've got a Democrat Attorney General in Michigan, Nessel, who can't even go to her party's nominating convention because she says she doesn't feel safe, because it's not safe for Jews to go to a political meeting.

This is all wrapped up in this race. it's wrapped up in a lot of races around the country. It was wrapped up in these primaries here in New York City, and this whole demonization of AIPAC. You know, AIPAC is made up of Jewish-Americans. There are people who want to participate in politics.

And so, yes, there are other issues being discussed. Yes, there's candidate qualities. Yes, there's tactics. But at the end of the day, it seems to me that that is the motivating matter here. And the Democratic Party is making clear they want nothing to do with anybody who supports the fact that our ally Israel, is fighting against these terrorists in the Middle East.

AXELROD: Let me just say a word about that, because we've talked about this before. And I speak as, and as you know, as the son of a Jewish refugee. So, issues of antisemitism are very personal to me.

I think that, what you see in Michigan is an interest group spending $30 million. She's got $64 million in television spending, and they're responsible for at least half of that. And one of the issues, as Kristen mentioned, that people are grappling with, is the power of money in our politics, the influence that interest groups have. And I think it's a legitimate it's a legitimate question.

Should essentially an agent of any foreign government, whether it's Israel or any other, be able to spend or is it healthy for them to spend $30 million in a race like this to influence the outcome of that race? I think that's a legitimate issue.

JONES: I mean, I get your point. I don't think that they're an agent of a foreign power. I think there are American Jews as you said.

AXELROD: Their mission is to support the policies of the Israeli government.

JONES: Well, I think the issue is to protect Israel. But you have to ask --

AXELROD: No, no, no, but, Van, read what they're -- JONES: I'm happy to be corrected by you, but I'd also like to make my own point, which is that why is AIPAC going after this guy? That would be the question. They're spending what you said $30 million, that's a lot of money.

Is it because he's a Muslim guy? Is it because he's a hateful guy? It turns out his position is for a full military embargo of the state of Israel.

Now, the hold on a second, full military embargo. Now, listen, if he says he wants to condition aid, that's reasonable, defensible, most Democrats feel that way at this point after Gaza. If he says no subsidies, that's defensible. He says we can't even sell weapons to Israel, even if they're defensive.

So, if this guy, so why is AIPAC so mad and this guy is saying that the United States government can't even sell defensive weapons to Israel, which would make Israel completely defenseless.

Now, that would be a reason for a group of people who cares about Israelis to say, this is not our guy.

AXELROD: So, can I just say this? Haley Stevens ran in 2022 after her district was redistricted. She ran against, Andy Levin.

JONES: Yes, Andy Levin.

AXELROD: And Andy Levin, his position was that aid to Israel should be conditional on not pursuing policies that would, subvert a two-state solution there. That was if, is that would be considered a mainstream position now by many people. They spent millions of dollars to defeat him. They spent millions of dollars this year to defeat Tom Malinowski, who said, I can't guarantee that I will support every funding position.

So, I take your point. But this is this is not just about this race. This is about the entire panoply of races.

[20:15:11

BERMAN: What we're going to do is we're going to stick around. Hang on, obviously, this discussion, which is very much present on the ground in Michigan, is permeating the Democratic Primaries this summer. So much more to come on this.

Also, Todd Blanche one step closer to becoming the next attorney general but cracks are forming in his wall of Republican support. Could his confirmation be in jeopardy? Kind of again.

And next, in battle, Republican Congressman Max Miller, facing allegations of spousal abuse and calls by some in his own party to step down more on his truly defiant interview with Jake Tapper, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Are all three of these women who don't know each other, are all three of them lying?

REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:05]

BERMAN: Okay, more breaking news. Congressman Max Miller speaking out in an exclusive interview on CNN, refusing to step down and drop his reelection bid as he faces domestic abuse allegations from his ex- wife, Emily Moreno, allegations he denies.

Now, Moreno alleges Miller held a gun to her head, threw her against a wall and once threw hot water on her. Those allegations were revealed during a police interview and in court documents, as detectives look into claims that Miller broke their two-year-old daughter's collarbone.

Now, no charges were ever filed in connection to their daughter's injuries. Meanwhile, this afternoon, the House Ethics Committee announced it is reviewing allegations that Representative Max Miller may have engaged in domestic violence and abuse or illegal drug use.

Miller himself requested that investigation earlier today. All of this is happening as he faces a reelection in Ohio's Seventh Congressional District, which has been something of a Republican stronghold.

Meanwhile, his ex-father-in-law, the Republican Senator from Ohio, Bernie Moreno, is calling on miller to leave Congress. Today, he told reporters that all of this has been the seventh level of hell for his family. Miller has also denied allegations he abused ex-girlfriend Stephanie Grisham, a former White House Press Secretary.

On Monday, she filed a temporary restraining order against him and called him to remove social media posts, accusing her of making false allegations. And he also denied reports that he pushed a girl down a flight of stairs when he was in high school.

CNN's Jake Tapper asked him about all those allegations this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Are all three of these women who don't know each other, are all three of them lying?

MILLER: Yes. it's very easy, and I can tell you why. Every single time, and people have asked me, you know, what are you going to do? Are you going to drop out of this race? Are you going to resign? You know, are you going to get out before the deadline? And my answer to you, Jake, is no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And Jake Tapper joins me now. So, Jake, this was a remarkable and lengthy interview. And I really urge people to go watch the whole thing, because I think when you do that, you get a real a real sense of how notable it was. What stood out to you?

TAPPER: Well, there's so many things. I mean, he's definitely at least based on the interview, not going to step down and not run for reelection. He's definitely in it. I think one of the things that was interesting is how sometimes claims he made about his ex-wife contradicted things that he said in other parts of the interview.

Here's one example, when he was talking about how something that Emily Moreno, his ex-wife, was saying about what their daughter told her wasn't true.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: I then played Lauren Fox, three separate audio videos, three separate audio videos of my daughter saying, I do not want to go to Mommy's. I do not want Mommy and I do not feel safe.

TAPPER: Your ex-wife stated to police that your child told her in the days leading up to the discovery of the injury, "Daddy kill you."

MILLER: She can't string together sentences like that. She's two-and- half-years old.

TAPPER: You just told me that she had said that she was scared to go to Mommy's house.

MILLER: She is and I have video of it.

TAPPER: But now you're saying that she's not capable of saying, "Daddy, kill you." I mean, it seems like she's either able to say one but not the other.

MILLER: Jake, that doesn't make sense. Jake, to be very direct. This is incredibly disturbing. I am not going to my child to say, "Daddy, kill you."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Didn't really answer the question. Didn't really answer the contradiction there.

BERMAN: Oh, and you're absolutely right to point out it was diametrically opposed to what he had just said before. I mean, Jake, obviously, he's doing this interview or he did this interview with you because he wants to stay on the ballot. He thought it would help him. That's why politicians do things like this. What in this interview do you think might help him win reelection?

TAPPER: I don't know because I don't think that interview was a direct attempt to appeal to me. I guess, he is trying to show if I had to guess that it's, he's trying to show President Trump that he's a fighter. He mentioned President Trump a couple, including, you know, that people were calling for Trump to drop out in 2016 and he didn't and he ended up being President of the United States. He did do an extensive interview and it was not an easy interview. So, I mean, I think he can claim that he's not hiding from the press, honestly. But to me, you know, there are a lot more questions than answers that I got personally after that interview.

BERMAN: Yes, I think that was the case for a lot of us. And the congressman did say that President Trump told him on the phone that it's going to be a very tough race and that he, meaning the Congressman, might not be able to pull off a win. So, is it clear to you at this point why the President, his allies, are not publicly out in public, pushing harder for Miller to drop out?

[20:25:05]

TAPPER: My guess is that he's not going to. He has to, I mean, he had to have done so already. The deadline was tonight, and he hasn't. So, the Republican Party of Ohio, I don't think, can put somebody else in the seat.

There is, you know, also just the fact that President Trump has a relationship with Max Miller. Max Miller was an aide of his. Max Miller dated his Communications Director, Stephanie Grisham. Until that relationship went horribly wrong amidst accusations by Grisham that Max Miller was abusive.

So, I don't know. I do know that President Trump has a long history of when these stories come out of women making horrific allegations against Republican men. President Trump has a long track record of siding with the Republican men.

BERMAN: Jake Tapper, like I said, this was a remarkable interview and not an easy thing, I think, to do for a father either. So, I really appreciate, I think we all do the work you did there. Thank you for being with us tonight.

TAPPER: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Let's get reaction now from our panel. Also joining us, CNN anchor and chief legal analyst Laura Coates.

And Laura, let me start with you, because one of the things that congressman kept on repeating to Jake was that if all the allegations against him were true, if they were true, he'd be in prison. But is it really that simple?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I look at all this through the lens of a domestic violence prosecutor, which I was, and let me tell you, the idea that somebody would be so adamant that he would already be in prison. That's the only way to actually show the credibility of any woman who accused him of these crimes is just a falsehood, frankly.

There are many reasons why prosecutors who might look at these allegations might have to review them in their full context. That includes the idea of a delayed reporting, which sometimes can undermine the pace at which you're able to bring cases. But one way that you can also buttress the credibility of a witness is by bringing in other, especially unrelated persons who are going to corroborate their story through their own interaction with that person.

Now, you can't just have what's called propensity evidence and say, because they've committed a crime, or there's been a prior bad act that has not been tested in a court of law that automatically makes someone who is presumed innocent guilty. But you can use that full context to evaluate and assess whether charges could be brought.

I don't know what limitations period is actually in place for any of the allegations or the level of cooperation any of the women have had with law enforcement, all of which contributes to whether or not you're going to actually bring cases.

But I'll tell you, every statement that he made with Jake Tapper today and -- prior, although not under oath, are absolutely going to be part of the case file and tested against other statements he might make in a court of law or to law enforcement. And I'm going to tell you the arrogance that he has said in the past. Well, if this were true, then she wouldn't have made me dinner offered to do so.

You have no idea what behavior if somebody who has been victimized will engage in. Everyone can look from the outside in and try to cast judgment and decide that somebody is not credible, because they don't do what you think they ought to do in a circumstance. But people who have alleged abuse oftentimes will conform their behavior to that which makes them safest, not which makes them the most popular with those of the court of public opinion.

BERMAN: So, Kristen, Laura was talking about the legal side a little bit there. How about the political side? Just bluntly, did Max Miller, if he wants to stay in the race, help himself tonight?

ANDERSON: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, let's, first of all, he should not be in this race. I just want that to be very clear. The fact that he's staying in, is entirely about the fact that for somebody like him, he thinks there's no reason he should have to leave because he's important and he's special. And why should he have to step down?

Everything that he has said over the last 72 hours, the video that he put out saying, oh, none of this stuff is true because she made me dinner. The interview with Jake Tapper just now inexplicable, horrifying. And there is simply no place for him in Congress.

And what I think he's gambling on is the fact that partisanship these days is a hell of a drug. And if you are somebody who is in a district, that's maybe R-plus four, R-plus five, you think you can get away with doing horrible things, and people will hold their nose and vote for you these days.

And I just think that's not an actually a very smart gamble to make in this political environment.

BERMAN: Scott. JENNINGS: Yes, first of all, my heart goes out to the family. I mean, you've got a mother, a young child, Bernie Moreno, who I know and very fond of great new Senator from Ohio. I mean, I believe them when they say they have gone through what Bernie Moreno called the seventh level of hell.

This interview today was remarkable. It was long. It was full of deflection. I found no reason, just as a Republican watching it, why I would want that person above all other Republicans who live in that district to serve in the U.S. Congress.

Even if you're Max Miller and you, you want to argue all of these things are not true or it's made up or whatever. Don't you have to ask yourself, what's the best for my family?

You know, we've got a broken family here. We've got a little girl. He strikes me as someone who needs some personal healing. That family obviously needs some healing and is the best way to do that, to fight it out in a congressional campaign in the middle of American politics, the way it is right now, obviously, the answer to that question is no. I would think it would be a pretty easy call for Republicans to say, we can do better than this in Ohio.

[20:30:45]

BERMAN: All right, thank you both very much. And Laura Coates, we're going to see you back at 11 o'clock Eastern for Laura Coates Live.

Everyone else, stay with us. A lot more to talk about including election returns and Todd Blanche's nomination for Attorney General clears his first hurdle, but there is now Republican opposition in the full Senate. Could that derail the confirmation?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:43]

BERMAN: It is election night here in America, right here on CNN. If you are just joining us, the polls are closed in Virginia, Missouri, parts of Kansas and parts of Michigan. And as the votes are being counted, you can see it right there, real life votes being counted with about 3 percent in. Abdul El-Sayed has a lead of, oh, some 13,000 votes over Haley Stevens in Michigan. But this is very early at this point in that race.

Now, all eyes are on that Senate race to see if the progressive movement can make inroads against the so-called Democratic establishment.

With us now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, who was an early supporter of Abdul El-Sayed in that Democratic primary, or I should say you endorsed him about a month ago. Listen, you have heard all the speculation on both sides that Abdul El-Sayed would be a worst general election candidate for Democrats in that purple state. You've heard the arguments he's too far left in a purple state. What do you say to that? SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), FOREIGN RELATIONS & APPROPRIATION COMMITTEES: John, I think that's dead wrong. I think in this case, Abdul El-Sayed has been the populist candidate among the Democrats, the anti-status quo candidate among the Democrats. And he understands that this is not so much left versus right as it is folks at the very top, the top 1 percent, rigging the economy and the rules of the game in a way that benefits them and hurts workers and everybody else.

And he gets that. This is why he was endorsed by the UAW. He understands our health care system is broken. He supports Medicare for All. So this is a guy who actually can get votes across the political spectrum because he's addressing issues that people across the political spectrum care about. They're hurting economically. He wants to shake things up to help them.

BERMAN: You hear people compare this, what's been going on in the Democratic Party, to the Tea Party movement on the right starting in 2010. I just heard it moments ago from someone sitting next to me. Do you think that's a fair comparison?

VAN HOLLEN: I don't know if that's a fair comparison or not, John. What I do know is that there's a real sense, which I share, that the establishment Democratic Party in Washington gets itself in a bubble. There are all sorts of special interest groups, and you talked about $60 million being spent against Abdul El-Sayed in this race, who, especially when it comes to health care and big pharma, they want a Congress that's going to do their bidding and not the bidding of the public. And so I think Abdul El-Sayed is speaking to those people, and I think that's a message that goes beyond the Democratic primary.

BERMAN: So, Senator, you're no doubt aware of the controversy surrounding Congressman Max Miller of Ohio, has been accused of domestic abuse by his ex-wife, which Miller denies. His ex-father-in- law is your Senate colleague, Republican Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio, and I want to play some of what the senator said today about the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R), OHIO: This is truly the seventh level of hell. This has been a horrific experience for my entire family. You've got to remember, when you don't have kids and you get divorced, you can just say farewell. You never have to see each other again. But when you have a child, you have to co-parent with that individual for the rest of your life.

That means scheduling pickups, scheduling drop-offs. This is not something that you can just say, I'll never have to deal with this guy again. My daughter lives in constant fear of this man. Not, like, something that's existential, but deeply in her heart, she fears what this guy is capable of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Senator Moreno says that Miller should not be in Congress. Why do you think we aren't hearing more of your Republican Senate colleague saying that, at least not yet?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, that's a good question, and I hope they will listen to Senator Moreno. I don't agree with Senator Moreno on many issues, but I really feel for the pain he and his family are suffering in this situation. So I do hope his fellow Republicans will listen to him. And I hope we haven't gotten to the point where, you know, politics is so polarized that, you know, people will want Miller to stay just because he's another vote.

[20:40:16]

The Senate Judiciary Committee advanced Todd Blanche's nomination to be attorney general. We did hear from Senator Susan Collins late today. She is opposed to his confirmation. What do you think the prospects are in the full Senate?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, let me just say, in my view, Todd Blanche should not be the attorney general of the United States because while his title is now acting attorney general, he's been acting like Donald Trump's personal lawyer the whole time. And I think that's what we will see if he becomes confirmed as attorney general. That's what brought us this slush fund to begin with, a slush fund to provide payouts to people who were convicted of crimes on January 6th, and a sweetheart deal for Donald Trump and family members not to pay any taxes that may be due.

So we'll have to see, John. On the merits, he should go down. There are three Republican senators who have not declared as of tonight where they stand. If they were all to vote against him, then the nomination would fail. But I'm not making a prediction along those lines.

BERMAN: Senator Chris Van Hollen, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

Up next, we're getting more results in from the primary races across five states, including Michigan, that could shape the fight for control of Congress. John King is standing by at the Magic Wall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:48]

BERMAN: It is election night in America. Key primary battles across five states at the top of the hour. All polls will be closed in Michigan and Kansas. We're also awaiting results from Washington State later tonight. And the polls have already closed in Virginia and Missouri.

John King, that all means, is standing by at the Magic Wall. John, talk to me about what you're seeing in Michigan.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Number one, sadly, John, not breaking news. You've been here on election night. Michigan does not count quickly. And so we are waiting.

As you noted, polls out here in the central time zone parts of the state, they don't close for another 14 minutes or so. But the polls have been closed here for quite some bit, including in Detroit. Wayne County is the largest county in the state, obviously a huge part of the Democratic base. And so the Haley Stevens-Abdul El-Sayed competition will play out across the state, but it plays out mostly right here.

Look what we have so far. That would be 300 votes in a very large metropolitan area. So we're waiting here. Then you move up to Macomb County, again, a very important part of this state. We have just a handful, a little more than Detroit, but a handful of votes.

So we're waiting, John. And we're -- as we wait, you see the big lead for El-Sayed right now. That's what people think is going to happen tonight. That's what they think the momentum is. You know, my job at election night is to say let's just wait and be cautious and count the votes.

But we just got some more votes in here in Detroit. I saw the color change, so let's go back and look. Not a lot more, but a couple thousand more votes, and Haley Stevens pulls ahead by a little bit in Wayne County, which is Detroit, and then the suburbs out. As, again, you know this pretty well, the African-American population, including downriver here. There's also a very big Arab-American population in Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, Hamtramck. That's all part of Wayne County.

It's about 18 percent of the state population, and it is the most Democratic county in the state. So this is where the battle will be. But that's 1 percent of the vote, and I've been here on many election nights when you're getting to 11 o'clock midnight, sometimes beyond, John, and you're still waiting for giant chunks of vote out of Wayne County.

So we will see how the math goes tonight. El-Sayed out to an early lead. As you know and as you were discussing earlier with your great panel, this is a huge part of the struggle for the future of the Democratic Party. Is it progressive establishment? Is it new versus old? It's all of the above.

I was out there recently. There's a lot of energy about this race, a lot of worries among Democrats that no matter who wins, supporters of the other candidate might sulk, might stay home. So there's going to be some healing after, but first we have to find out who will be the Democratic nominee, and this is a big, very big race when it comes to the math in November.

BERMAN: Yes, talk to me about it very quickly, John. Can the Democrats get to 51 if they lose Michigan?

KING: So let me go through this real quickly for you. You've got to switch maps to do that, but you come over here. Here's where we are right now, 57-43. On the map of the Senate races this year, red are held by Republicans, blue are held by Democrats.

So let's say Democrats run off a good streak. Let's say they win Maine despite everything that's happened up there. They have a very good candidate in North Carolina, the former governor. They think they can win Ohio with former Senator Sherrod Brown. That would be 50-50, assuming they hold all their own, right?

So then it's Iowa or Alaska. Let's say the Democrats do have a big win this year, John, and they get Alaska. Well, that would get them to 51. They need 51 because of JD Vance, but what would happen if you lost one of your own, right? Then you'd have to get the other one. You'd have to get Iowa or you'd have to find some magic on the map.

So protecting your own is vital to the Democrats, and they're a little nervous about Michigan.

BERMAN: Yes, almost essential for them.

John King, you'll be there all night. We'll let you get back to crunching the numbers. Thank you very much.

Back now with the panel. David Axelrod, let me just start with you. One of these candidates is going to win tonight.

AXELROD: I predict that's true.

BERMAN: OK. We have our first prediction of the night.

AXELROD: Yes.

BERMAN: How hard is it -- how hard will it be to heal these rifts, which are significant?

AXELROD: Listen, I think the most interesting thing that's going to happen tonight is someone's going to make a speech, and I think the tone of that speech is going to be important. Because anyone who wins has to recognize that there needs to be a coming together, that this was a, you know, war within the family, as it were, but at the end of the day, there needs to be a coming together.

So if you're Abdul El-Sayed and you are making a victory speech, I think humility would be the order of the day. I think being open-armed would be the order of the day, and the same would be true for Haley Stevens. You have to get them together.

BERMAN: What is that speech, Van, tonight? From El-Sayed, if he does win, it's not over yet, but if he does win, what's that speech, and what's he like as a candidate, do you think?

[20:50:01]

JONES: Well, look, I mean, look at these numbers. If you are an Arab kid in America right now, if you're a Muslim kid in America right now, and you're looking at this, this is one of the biggest nights of your life. This is Barack Obama. This is Hillary Clinton.

So, you know, whenever there's a first, you have real hopes and you have real fears. There's real fears in some Jewish homes tonight, but this is a big deal, and I think he's -- no Muslim has gotten this far in American politics. He should speak to that, and not any of the divisions in our party. I mean, to be a healing force, and put those kids first.

BERMAN: So, Kristen, how much of an appeal might there be to independents and swing voters for El-Sayed if he does prevail?

ANDERSON: Well, the thing that he is going for him is if he's a good campaigner who can talk about fighting the system. People want outsiders. That's something that independents have wanted, not just in this cycle, but over the last two decades at least. And so there's a real possibility that for candidates who are outsiders, that's just the vibe that independents are looking for.

The risk, though, is that independents are not all necessarily on board with Medicare for All and things like that. And so, in some cases, there are going to be voters who, maybe temperamentally, kind of like the idea of shaking things up, but are going to wonder, ugh, it feels like the world's a little chaotic right now. Do I want to pick somebody whose views are pretty far outside of where, say, the Democratic Party's mainstream would have been a couple of years ago?

BERMAN: Scott, quickly, is there a "be careful what you wish for" aspect to this for Republicans if El-Sayed does win, if he is proving himself as an adept candidate?

JENNINGS: Well, look, you never take anything for granted, but obviously he's much further to the left, much farther outside of the political mainstream. I mean, you talk about the world being in chaos. During the campaign, a leaked audio from his campaign came out, Abdul El-Sayed, in which he was worried about commenting on the death of the ayatollah because he didn't want to offend his supporters.

Yes, the world is in chaos, and this guy can't figure out what side of the ball he's on. And so, I think Republicans look forward to running against this because there won't be a brighter line than between Abdul El-Sayed and Mike Rogers.

BERMAN: All right, I know you want to say something, but we're going to take a break, and you will have first bite of the apple right when we come back. Our special election coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:23]

BERMAN: It is election night in America. We're starting to see results come in from the key Senate race, the Democratic primary in Michigan. Let's put up those figures. There we go. And you can see with about, I don't know if that's a six down at the bottom of the screen, 6 percent in. You can see Abdul El-Sayed has a lead of about 21,000 votes right now. They continue to count throughout the night.

Back with our panel, David Axelrod, I promised you first here. There has been a name we really haven't mentioned as being potentially the most important --

AXELROD: Yes.

BERMAN: -- person in these congressional races.

AXELROD: Yes, Donald Trump. And I think he'd be plenty ticked off that we haven't mentioned his name. Donald Trump is going to define this election as every president defines a midterm election. Mike Rogers lost narrowly to Elissa Slotkin, who was a different kind of candidate in 2004 with Trump winning the state.

Trump is now in the mid-30s, I believe, in Michigan. That is a heavy load for Mike Rogers to carry into this race. And I think it's going to be a factor.

BERMAN: And I'm not sure, Scott, you tell me this, are Republicans going to split from Donald Trump as they run for race -- you know, if they run in these swing seats?

JENNINGS: I don't think so. Although I was reminiscing with some friends, some veterans of the 2006 midterm cycle, when it was hard to find people who wanted to campaign with George W. Bush. That's not the case now. Republicans still very much love Donald Trump and want to campaign with Donald Trump. His numbers in the party are better than any modern president's numbers in their own party. So I don't think you're going to see those splits.

I think on the Michigan piece, there are certain voters who love to vote for Donald Trump and then they just don't vote for anybody else.

BERMAN: Yes.

JENNINGS: And this is an enduring tactical or technical issue for the Republican Party. How do you convince them that, well, if you want Trump to succeed, you can't abandon Trump's team? And that's an argument Rogers is going to have to make. But certainly making it against Abdul El-Sayed, who's a clear radical, is going to be easier than making it against someone who comes more from the mainstream.

BERMAN: You hear Scott saying clear radical there, Van. Is that going to be the race starting tomorrow if El-Sayed wins?

JONES: Well, I mean, that's what we'll be hearing. Listen, he's a mixed bag. I mean, the good stuff he's talking about is, you know, people are really suffering. And health care costs are outrageous and he's willing to take on the establishment.

I think that for this party, whether he wins the general or not will determine everything. Because if somebody in the middle of this country with those kind of politics can beat a Mike Rogers in the middle of the country, all bets are off for the left in this party.

BERMAN: So you love focus groups. You love hearing from voters. They're talking tonight. What do you think we might learn over this in the next 24 hours?

ANDERSON: Yes, so I think Democrats are going to draw a lot of conclusions about electability, but they're going to do so in an environment where Donald Trump's numbers are terrible and they're going to get a lot of people across the finish line who in any other environment wouldn't.

And that's why I keep coming back to this comparison to the Republican Tea Party days where Republicans got a lot of people across the finish line, took the House in 2010 with a lot of candidates who otherwise wouldn't have succeeded. And so Democrats are now going to have a presidential primary in 2028. They're going to come out of this thinking, we can go be super progressive.

JONES: Right.

ANDERSON: We can embrace Medicare for All. Let's do it. And it'll be interesting because for a long time, Democrats I think have been saved by the fact that their activists online and their base of voters have not actually been the same. That there are people who make a lot of noise online and take really out their positions.

But actually the rank and file Democratic voter was always a little more middle of the road. That's no longer necessarily the case. And I think that's going to be fascinating.

AXELROD: But as you look around the country at Democratic candidates who are featured in these races, he would be an exception, not a rule. You know, when you look at guys like Cooper, when you look at the candidate in Iowa, you know, these are mainstream center-left Democrats. So there's going to be, you know, the idea that these progressives are sweeping all of these races --

ANDERSON: But I think people are going to look at Mamdani, they're going to look at El-Sayed, and they're going to go, that's the model of the future. And it will be fascinating --

AXELROD: Yes, I don't think that's how voters are going to make these decisions. I really don't.

BERMAN: David Axelrod, Van Jones, Kristen Soltis Anderson, Scott Jennings, thank you all for being here. This is going to be a long night as the votes continue to come in from the primaries across America.

CNN's election night coverage continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.