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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Furious Push to Get Defiant Rep. Max Miller Out of the Race; Rep. Miller Fending Off Calls to End Reelection Bid, Denies Abuse Claims; Dr. Fauci's New Fight; Senate Panel Votes To Hold Fauci In Contempt Of Congress; Fauci's Lawyer Calls Vote A "Crude Political Stunt"; Sources: Trump Angry Over Reports On Depleted Munitions; Iran: Hormuz Deal Is Close But U.S. Must Meet Commitments; NY Times: Fate Of Qatari-Gifted Jet Unclear After Trump Leaves WH; A.I. Creates 16 New Viruses From Scratch. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 06, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Industry guidance and requirements, a positive result on a product triggers rejection of the entire lot, not partial disposition and initiates research to inform future risk assessments -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Kyung Lah, thank you so much for that report, and thank you so much for joining us. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:22]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: A furious push to get Congressman Max Miller to drop his re-election bid, but so far, in public, the President is not part of it.

John Berman here in for Anderson.

And just before air, CNN learned that Republican party officials are engaged in an intense effort to push Ohio Representative Max Miller to drop out of his race in the face of domestic abuse allegations, allegations he denies.

But the most senior party official, the President is not conveying that intensity, at least not when asked a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, the deadline for Representative Max Miller to withdraw from his race is coming up next week. Do you believe he should withdraw?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I am not going to get involved in that. It's a very sad situation, and I know Max very well, but it is very, very sad that a situation like that takes place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Sources tell us that allies of the President are pushing him to encourage Miller to drop his reelection bid. But as you can see, he passed just there. Even if he told Miller the other day, it would be a tough race to.

Now, Miller continues to be defiant that he will not abandon his bid for re-election. Meanwhile, Miller's former father-in-law, Senator Bernie Moreno, said today that he had sent his daughter and granddaughter "out-of-state" to a secure place.

Miller told CNN this was not true and provided e-mails showing his ex- wife communicating flight information to him and allowing a video visit with their daughter.

As far as Congressman Miller's support within his own party, we first reported last night that Senator Katie Britt, Republican from Alabama, was the latest Republican senator to publicly call for Miller to step down. Senator Moreno did so on Sunday.

CNN caught up with Britt today on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Senator, do you think more lawmakers need to be honest and call on Max Miller to step aside from his race?

SEN. KATIE BOYD BRITT (R-AL): Look, I have spoken about this. My heart is broken for his granddaughter and his daughter. Their safety is what's most important and we should stand with Bernie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Tonight, she and Senator Moreno now have more company. The junior senator from Ohio, Jon Husted, released a statement this afternoon that read in part, "I believe Max would be making the right decision to step aside as a candidate and resign from Congress to focus on what is in the best interest of his daughter."

Senator Tim Sheehy, Republican from Montana, was more pointed, writing, "What kind of person would treat their daughter this way? This guy is clearly a degenerate sociopath. Max should step aside and seek help. Staying in this race makes it far more likely we lose this seat and hand. Democrats a majority to impeach President Trump."

Now, this follows Republican Senators Roger Marshall of Kansas and Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, telling POLITICO earlier in the week that they thought Miller should resign.

But not every Republican senator is going that far, at least not yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): Sen. Moreno has made it very clear that it is a very sensitive family member, and I will let him do it. I am not following it, and I don't have any more information than what anybody else has.

REPORTER: But are you okay -- are you okay with someone who has been accused of domestic abuse, staying in Congress next year?

ROUNDS: It is one thing to be accused. I will let those individuals who are investigating it take the lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the ones investigating, as he put it, are the House Ethics Committee, who launched their probe into Miller on Tuesday, just hours after he personally requested they do so in a social media post that read in part, "To clear my name from these horrific acts on myself and family, I have absolutely nothing to hide."

Now, an investigation from the House Ethics Committee can take months, if not years, and certainly go long past Monday, which is the deadline to put any other Republican candidate on the ballot for Ohio's seventh district.

Let's get to CNN congressional correspondent, Lauren Fox, who is in Ohio tonight and has this reporting, Lauren, on these furious behind- the-scenes effort to get Miller out of the race.

You know, what are these efforts? From whom? Why and how are they manifesting themselves?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, the clock is ticking because this August deadline is so important. If Republicans believe that this could potentially get even worse for Max Miller. They want to get him out before that August deadline, because that is when they have to get someone else on the ballot if they are actually going to run a Republican against Democrat, Brian Poindexter.

[20:05:02]

Now, right now, Max Miller is defiant. He says he is not getting out of this race. But behind-the-scenes, national Republicans are deeply concerned.

Where I am standing right now in Medina County, Ohio, this is a district that was safe for Republicans. This is a district that Max Miller won with 58 percent of the vote and this is a district overall that Donald Trump won by 11 points just two years ago.

So you can get a sense that this is not something that Republicans want to be contending with. This is not a district that they want to be fighting for, especially because they already have an uphill battle to maintain their majority right now in the House -- John.

BERMAN: But the concern and they are pushing, but how and where and Lauren, I know you're also talking to voters. What do they have to say about it?

FOX: Yes. I mean, voters here are really on the fence, John, when it comes to what they want to do. I talked to a ton of Republican voters over the last day, and many of them argued they're conflicted right now. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN KERR, REPUBLICAN VOTER: I think running for Congress while you're being accused of this stuff, no, man, just set it down. If you're really innocent, then be innocent. Take a few years off.

TERRY PENROSE, REPUBLICAN VOTER: I haven't seen any actual facts or video or anything that would support her allegations, but I don't want to say that she is lying, you know? And I also -- we support Moreno. So it is really kind of a challenging situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And again, Congressman Miller is saying that he is not getting out of this race. He is denying all allegations against him. But certainly the stakes are escalating here for Republicans who know that voters like the two that you heard from, that voted Republican in the past, those are the kinds of voters they need to turn out on Election Day.

And it is not just this congressional district, right, that is at stake. They also have a high-profile Senate race that they are going to be watching and making sure that those Republican voters turn out -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Lauren Fox for us tonight on the ground in Ohio, listening to the voters there.

With us now, former Trump White House Communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin and Republican strategist, Brad Todd.

So, Alyssa, the reporting is that Republican officials are furiously pushing right now, an intense effort to get Max Miller out of the race.

Where? I mean, I know we have both senators from Ohio who have come out publicly and said it, but so far they haven't convinced the President to say it out loud so far. You know, they're not filling the airwaves every minute of every day. I am just curious what you think that effort would need to look like to work?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, clearly, if there is any --

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he is getting a lot of pressure --

GRIFFIN: -- out of the race. Go ahead.

BERMAN: Alyssa first.

GRIFFIN: Go ahead. So, I'd say it is happening behind-the-scenes. Thank you. It is happening behind-the-scenes.

Listen, the President has not weighed in. I worked with Max. I knew Max. The President was very close with him. And I think he is hoping that this can be a congressional matter. It is going to be something he doesn't need to weigh into.

But here is the reality. This is an R plus five seat. This is a seat that should be a safe Republican hold. But these allegations coming out so close to November, when, you know, the generic ballot, just minorly benefits Democrats, it is just not worth it for Republicans to keep somebody running in this race who is not a shoo-in to win and that's where it is right now with Max.

This is one of the uglier stories I can remember in the last decade in politics. Every day, more and more information is coming out. Max is fighting back and pushing back, but we have to expect it is going to be a steady drip until Election Day.

I do think these conversations are happening, but I think that a lot of folks are looking to The White House and to the President to take their direct cues on whether or not Max is going to be forced out.

BERMAN: So, Brad, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.

TODD: Oh, well, I am sorry with the delay, it was my fault. I am sorry, Alyssa.

You know, there is a lot of pressure happening. Max's colleagues are urging him to drop out. Both his senators from his own state have urged him to drop out. He has got a chorus of popular Republican senators urging him to drop out. That's how these things happen.

You know, Donald Trump is not ever asking anyone to drop out because of a personal scandal. And frankly, it is not his job as the policeman of the party, but it is Max's colleagues job to do this. And I will just note, when Graham Platner was credibly accused of abuse in June before the primary in Maine, zero Democratic senators called on him to drop out and they had a better option. They had a better option, Governor Janet Mills sitting there.

So here you see Republicans trying to get Max Miller to drop out. Now, Democrats did not do that before that June 9th primary in Maine. I think that's a contrast.

BERMAN: They did before the primary, Brad, but they absolutely did before the changing of the name on the ballot deadline. I mean, they absolutely did after the primary, before the deadline, which is where which Ohio is now.

TODD: After the race validation, John.

BERMAN: Sure. Okay, after another series of allegations.

[20:10:06]

The Max Miller allegations have been around for months and months and months. So I am just saying absolutely, Democrats were slow on this, but eventually they came around. The question is, are Republicans going to come around to the same degree as Democrats did just last month?

And Alyssa, without the President publicly saying it, do you think it matters?

GRIFFIN: Time will tell. Well, listen, there isn't that much time. But keep in mind, Max Miller is an alumni of the 2016 campaign. He was working advance when it was a shoestring operation, when a lot of the you know, the Republican Party had not gravitated around Donald Trump and there were a handful of loyalists who were with him from day one.

And I think that loyalty and that sort of core early group of Trump advisers are some -- are people that the President is still very loyal to, to this day.

We also know that Donald Trump feels strongly that he has been accused of things that he, you know, protests and says weren't true. So he feels very strongly about not getting ahead of mere allegations and things that weren't proven.

So I don't know that we are ever going to get something directly from the President saying he needs to get out. But if you're the political operation, if you're James Blair, if you're Susie Wiles, if you're thinking about the House Majority and wanting to not have to deal with impeachment investigations, you know, all your Cabinet Secretaries getting hauled before Congress in this incoming Congress, you are quietly and in very strong terms telling Max Miller he needs to get out.

Listen, the only thing that could destroy Max Miller's life more right now would be that he stays in the race, loses a safe Republican seat to a Democrat because of these allegations, and loses Republicans the Majority. So I think that conversation is happening. I think it is possible he still gets out.

BERMAN: Brad, do you think he could win this race?

TODD: You know, I don't. I don't, John. I think -- and I think he is going to put a million dollars in. I think he has of his own money. He says tonight and "The Wall Street Journal" reports that I don't know -- he is going to struggle to raise money from other people.

Now, it is a Trump plus eight district. So it is a pretty good Republican district. But I think he will struggle. But I don't think that's the point.

I don't think that's the point of whether he would win or not. I think the point is he has a lot of things that need to be worked out with his family. His daughter is going to grow up one day and read these headlines and say -- you know, ask was politics more important than me? I think for the sake of his family and to sort these things out, and I don't know -- we don't know what is true and what he has been accused of that's not true, if anything, right?

We don't know those questions, but we do know that his family has a mess and he probably is a father who should start attending to it.

BERMAN: Brad Todd, Alyssa Farah Griffin, you're both right. I mean, there are things more important than politics. I do appreciate you both being with us tonight. Thank you very much. Up next, more on these allegations at the center of the Max Miller controversy, some of them going back 15 years.

And later, A.I. has just created 16 new viruses, some scientists heralded as a major medical breakthrough. Critics worry it could eventually pave the way for a computer generated pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:17:09]

BERMAN: More now on the breaking news regarding Republican Congressman Max Miller. Behind-the-scenes, we are told there is a furious push to get him out of the race by party officials who believe he could now imperil Republican chances of retaining his seat in Congress.

For more though on the allegations at the center of this saga, we turn to CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): I have never done these things. These things have already been investigated.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A defiant Congressman Max Miller, pushing back on allegations of domestic abuse in the midst of a bitter custody battle.

His ex-wife, Emily Moreno, alleged in court that in June 2024, Miller threw hot water from a pan on her after she told him she wanted to separate.

MILLER: The hot boiling water incident never happened. That is a complete fabrication.

KAYE (voice over): In a police interview from February this year, Moreno also accused Miller of putting a gun to her head.

OFFICER: So when -- when does the gun come into play?

EMILY MORENO, REP. MAX MILLER'S EX-WIFE: When I'm changing --

OFFICER: And what does he do?

E. MORENO: Holds it on me.

OFFICER: Holds it on you?

MILLER: I don't have a weapon that's even easily accessible in my home like that. What we're dealing with, unfortunately, is something that many families go through, Lauren, which is a very nasty divorce.

And in the process, allegations get made that are completely fabricated and are not true.

KAYE (voice over): That February police interview was part of a police investigation into how Miller and Moreno's daughter had suffered a broken collarbone.

MILLER: When I was reported for child abuse, for my daughter, for a broken collarbone, my daughter was in my ex-wife's care nine out of the last 11 days. The police are not investigating it.

KAYE (voice over): No charges were filed in the case. Miller's ex-wife is the daughter of another Ohio Republican, Senator Bernie Moreno.

SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): My daughter lives in constant fear of this man.

KAYE (voice over): Just this week, Senator Moreno suggested his former son-in-law emotionally abused his granddaughter by withholding her favorite stuffed animal.

MORENO: Max would not hand over the little blue bunny, literally held it hostage for 48 hours. This girl was crying at night because she can't sleep without her little blue bunny.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Did you hold this doll hostage because --

MILLER: No. Mr. Tapper, Mr. Tapper, no.

KAYE (voice over): Miller has filed a defamation lawsuit against Emily Moreno, and the case is still ongoing.

In 2021, he filed for defamation against an ex-girlfriend, too, former White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham.

The suit was in response to an op-ed Grisham wrote in "The Washington Post" about a relationship with an unnamed man who she described as abusive.

Grisham later named Miller, alleging he had been physically abusive during their relationship, which he denies. The suit was later dropped, but in July this year, Grisham's lawyer filed suit against Miller, and just this week, Grisham's team filed for a Temporary Restraining Order against him.

[20:20:04]

KAYE (on camera): And in 2021, POLITICO reported, citing unnamed sources that while he was in high school, Miller pushed a girl out of his room and she fell down some stairs after resisting his attempts to touch her.

Miller denies it happened.

TAPPER: Are all three of these women who don't know each other? Are all three of them lying?

MILLER: Yes.

KAYE (voice over): Miller worked in the Trump White House during Trump's first administration before launching his campaign for Congress in 2021. Miller told CNN Trump called him to express doubts about the future of his campaign, but Miller is staying put, for now.

MILLER: I am never going to give up.

KAYE (voice over): Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: I am joined now by national politics reporter for "Mother Jones," Abby Vesoulis.

She has new reporting around the allegation from Senator Moreno, that Congressman Miller refused to return her daughter's blue bunny. And Abby, you obtained screenshots including text messages allegedly from the designated go between for Miller and Emily Moreno, who writes in part that, "... he adamantly refuses to let Senator Moreno pick up the bunny."

In a separate e-mail from last march, Emily Moreno appears to beg Miller to return the toy. What more can you tell us about this?

ABBY VESOULIS, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "MOTHER JONES": So after Senator Moreno discussed the alleged blue bunny incident in the in the halls of the capitol the other day, Max Miller went and said that it was all a lie and he posted screenshots suggesting that he could prove that he never withheld the bunny.

But shortly after that, I had a source send me a trove of screenshots of text messages and e-mails showing that the bunny was apparently withheld from the two-and-a-half year old multiple times in March of 2025, in May of this year, and in August of this year as well.

And it took Senator Moreno, the parent coordinator, and multiple parties to get the bunny back on multiple occasions.

BERMAN: You mentioned the posting that Congressman Miller did himself last night. He released his own screenshots that he says disprove the allegation he would not return the bunny and the screenshots, his daughter's name is not redacted so CNN is blurring it.

So can you walk us through what he released?

VESOULIS: He released some screenshots showing that he had initially told the parent coordinator that he was fine to coordinate a drop off of the bunny, and that Senator Moreno was supposed to come pick the bunny up from his house.

Sometime around then, the Moreno's were busy. They had a family friend go or try to go to Congressman Miller's house to get the bunny, and that's when Congressman Miller, according to the screenshots that I have was irate and saying like, no deal is off. Like I did not approve of this other person to come get the bunny even from like a mailbox.

And so, that's this most recent event in August. BERMAN: Yes, so, Miller again, we played a little bit of it. We are going to play more now was asked by Jake Tapper about the bunny. Let's play more of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: This is nothing more than an individual who is being politically vindictive in talking about a blue bunny when I have text messages, I can show you from our parent coordinator, who is a mandatory court reporter who said that Mr. Moreno would be coming over my home, and then another individual came, who, I don't know.

TAPPER: Did you hold this doll hostage? Because that is emotionally abusive behavior.

MILLER: Mr. Tapper, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So does that explanation square with what is in those screenshots?

VESOULIS: I have a screenshot from the parenting coordinator saying that Max adamantly refuses to cooperate in handing over the bunny. So yes, it appears that he was willing for Senator Moreno to get it, but then adamantly refused when it was a third party that would come pick it up from the mailbox.

BERMAN: Again, every time anyone references parenting coordinator, I just think we are all reminded that were talking about a little girl here who one day will probably learn all this and just how sad it all is.

Just to be clear, how did Miller and/or his lawyer respond to the allegations in your reporting?

VESOULIS: I reached out to them nearly 24 hours ago and haven't heard anything back.

BERMAN: Abby Vesoulis, I appreciate you walking us through your reporting. Thank you for being with us tonight.

Up next, Dr. Anthony Fauci faces a new fight, now, it will be up to the Department of Justice to decide if he will face the contempt of Congress, criminal charge after a referral from a Senate panel today for refusing to answer questions about his COVID response and what the President is now saying about reports that he clashed with Defense Secretary Hegseth on munitions shortages due to the war with Iran.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:29:15]

BERMAN: Senate Republicans are escalating their fight with Dr. Anthony Fauci to really an unprecedented level. Today, in a narrow party line vote of eight to seven, a Senate Committee led by Rand Paul referred Fauci to the Department of Justice for contempt of Congress charges without a full Senate vote of approval.

All this stems from Fauci's decision to take the Fifth more than 100 times during a fiery hearing last week, declining to answer lawmakers' questions on his response to the COVID pandemic.

Fauci's attorney called today's action, "a crude political stunt" and added, "... it is shameful and wrong that Senator Paul is abusing his power by trying to weaponize the Justice Department against an honorable public servant."

With us now is Dr. Craig Spencer, an emergency physician and professor at Brown University and CNN's senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor.

Elie, what are the chances that Dr. Fauci do you think will be prosecuted? Not should be, but will be prosecuted.

[20:30:07]

HONIG: Very important distinction there. Let's think about the position that Jeanine Pirro is in right now, because she's the one who's going to have to make this thumbs-up, thumbs-down decision. She can't avoid it. She's got to go in yes or no.

Jeanine Pirro is hanging by a string right now because of the fallout from the reflecting pool indictment. We all saw Donald Trump get in front of the cameras and say she've, quote, "folded like an umbrella." And then he had her into the White House, where he lambasted her, he didn't fire her.

So now, given what we know about Jeanine Pirro's history as a loyalist, given how close she came to getting fired for displeasing Trump a few days ago, what are the chances, realistically, that Jeanine Pirro says, you know, I've taken a hard look at this case, and I've decided that it doesn't merit prosecution, and therefore I will exercise my prosecutorial discretion and give it a pass.

I think the chances of that are extraordinarily low. Now, as you can probably tell from my tone, I don't think this case will ultimately succeed. I think Fauci had a valid Fifth Amendment invocation. But if you ask me what's likely to happen in the real world, it wouldn't shock me at all if he gets indicted.

BERMAN: Do you think he'll even get to trial?

HONIG: No, I think a judge can throw it out. I think a judge can throw it out before a jury hears it. If the judge finds that there's no reasonable basis a jury can find he committed a crime, that he had some valid reason to invoke his Fifth, then a judge has a right to say, I'm dismissing it before trial.

BERMAN: So, Dr. Spencer, there are a lot of discussions here about contempt of Congress and taking the Fifth. I'm not sure that's what came to your mind when you were watching these hearings, both the back and forth last week and the argument today in Congress. What was at the top of your mind? DR. CRAIG SPENCER, PROFESSOR, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: What was at the top of my mind was that they seemed more concerned with spectacle than actually improving the systems that we need to respond to future outbreaks. And I saw a process more focused on revenge than the needed reform.

Look, Fauci made mistakes. I made mistakes. Anyone who had anything important to say or do during the pandemic got things wrong. And I've seen over the last few weeks this increasing revisionism that the pandemic wasn't as bad as we were told that it was.

But remember that hindsight is not always 20/20. For healthcare providers like myself, hindsight is March 2020, when I saw a lot of my patients and, quite frankly, a lot of my friends and colleagues die. At the end of this, what we should all want is to better understand what went right. And, yes, what went wrong in a pandemic that Dr. Fauci was prominent.

But many other, including many in the administration now, played important roles but have not faced any of their own accountability. Instead, Fauci is standing in as a place for Americans to direct their collective anger because the U.S. has never had a commission to study the lessons of what went right and what went wrong.

Public health has always been forced to battle with politics. But what I've been seeing over the past few weeks is politicians' intent on making public health a partisan tool. And the next time there's a crisis like this, I promise the public will pay.

BERMAN: So, Elie, I want to play a clip of the President reacting to the move by the Senate today. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think the DOJ should prosecute Dr. Fauci?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, you know, they prosecuted Peter Navarro and they prosecuted Steve Bannon, two very decent people, over something that essentially was never prosecuted before. And they're sort of telltale signs of similarity. So when you see that happen, you sort of say maybe he should. What he did is far more serious than a lot of crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So how similar is this to the Navarro and Bannon cases?

HONIG: Well, it's a fair reference point in the respect that it reminds us that contempt of Congress can be a real crime. I mean, both Navarro and Bannon went to prison for four months after they were convicted. But there are important differences.

First of all, Dr. Fauci has invoked a constitutional right, the Fifth Amendment right, whereas Navarro and Bannon invoked a -- what we would call a common law right, a lower-level right of executive privilege. Second of all, Navarro and Bannon never even showed up. They no- showed.

And it's not even clear they actually invoked executive privilege. They sort of put things out there in the public, but they never formally invoked it. And it's not even clear that executive privilege applied in their cases, whereas I do think it's clear that Fifth Amendment applies to Fauci.

So it's a fair comparison to look at those cases and say, what's the similarities and differences? But I think there are more important differences here than similarities between the cases.

BERMAN: Dr. Spencer, what message do you think this sends to medical professionals, to scientists, to researchers out there maybe going into the future?

SPENCER: Well, let's be honest. Who in their right mind would take the role that Dr. Fauci played in the future? A handful of journal entries, some of which admittedly do not look great, are overlooking 45 years of service that kept us safe. And, look, I was in the Fauci files when I was hospitalized with Ebola just over a decade ago.

There were two entries where I was mentioned. And what I saw in his diary was a clear consideration of the science as a way to make sure the politics don't get involved, to think about the ways that we can do the right thing while keeping people safe.

[20:35:10]

And I'm worried that the lessons we're going to take away, particularly over the pandemic and the making of public health so partisan and for scoring points, is that serving your country when we need clear comes the most, only to know that you'll be pulled potentially in front of a kangaroo court or put in prison. Who's going to want to do that? I think the downstream effects to local public health departments, to people who may consider responding to Ebola outbreaks in the future, I think those are going to unfortunately be very immense.

BERMAN: Dr. Craig Spencer, Elie Honig, counselor, great to see you. We lived through this this morning as it was happening and we get to talk about it at night.

Up next, as reports on the shrinking U.S. stockpile of munitions mount, so too does President Trump's ire saying it makes America look weak. More on what's happening behind the scenes at the Pentagon.

And later, the Qatari-gifted Air Force One was supposed to not cost American taxpayers a cent and go to President Trump's presidential library after his term. Turns out, neither might be true.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:19]

BERMAN: President Trump is complaining behind closed doors about public disclosures that U.S. munitions are dwindling. The President's main complaint, he says it makes the U.S. look weak as he seeks to project strength. And while President Trump has vowed to go after those responsible for leaking the information, directing the Justice Department to launch an investigation and labeling them treasonous, he has also publicly admitted that the U.S. is running low on some types of weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have certain types of munitions that are very powerful, that we have unlimited, virtual unlimited supply. We have others where it's a little bit tighter, and we're getting them in on a daily basis. As you know, our defense companies are building more plants right now than at any point in history. They're building plants for the Patriots, for the Tomahawks, for everything. But we have certain types of munitions, which are very -- they may not be as accurate, they may not be -- you know, they're not as elite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now, Middle East Institute Distinguished Diplomatic Fellow Alan Eyre and Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East Dana Stroul. Dana, how concerning is it to you, the state of America's munitions stockpile, and how the President is dealing with it?

DANA STROUL, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR THE MIDDLE EAST: Well, it's certainly very concerning that there's such an open discussion about our munitions stockpiles. It clearly is something that the Iranian leaders are also paying particular attention to. And the risk here is that they become emboldened by perhaps perceiving that because our munitions stockpiles are so low, now is actually the time to escalate against us. And so, President Trump talking about it like this actually puts our forces at risk.

BERMAN: Alan, how does a munitions shortage or dwindling supplies impact how the U.S. is seen by its Gulf allies, many of whom have been targeted by Iran?

ALAN EYRE, DISTINGUISHED DIPLOMATIC FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Well, I think, as Dana said, it's a matter of grave concern, and that concern is shared with our Gulf allies, because if the U.S. were to escalate, Iran has announced that it will target critical Gulf infrastructure to include energy infrastructure. And if there's not sufficient munitions to protect them, then they get even more damage than they've had heretofore, which has been considerable. So strategically, we're between a rock and a hard place.

BERMAN: Dana, what do you make of President Trump saying that the individuals who leaked information about, as The Washington Post reported, his clash with Secretary Hegseth and low munitions are treasonous and will be hunted down? I think we lost Dana there. Alan, if you heard the question, can you respond to that?

EYRE: Sure. Well, again, on the one hand, I think the U.S. administration says that there's no veracity to these rumors. And then they say we're going to -- I think we're going to hunt down the people who leaked them. This is not the first administration who's had umbrage at leaking. All governments leak.

These types of truths tend to come out. But as far as I can recall, and I've been in the government for 40 years before I retired, there haven't been that many successful prosecutions of government leakers. You know, the last one I remember, I think, is the Pentagon Papers.

BERMAN: And how likely is it that you think that Iran will maintain control or some level of control over the Strait of Hormuz? At the end of all this, or not even at the end of all these, now in the immediate, you know, the immediate and the intermediate and the long term?

EYRE: Well, that's a crucial question, John. And, unfortunately, there is no question that ship, no pun intended, has already sailed. They will maintain some type of operational control over the Strait of Hormuz because they see that as essential for strategic deterrence. So in Iranian strategic thinking, that has achieved the same type of redline status as indigenous enrichment of uranium in the nuclear program.

So, yes, a massive blow to the international law, freedom of navigation. But we lost that battle.

BERMAN: Dana, you're back. We missed you, but it's good to have you back. There are, you know, there's talk of a deal between Iran and Oman right now on the Strait of Hormuz. What's Oman's interest here? And does it necessarily align with the United States? And, you know, if there is a toll at the end, it may make Oman happy, but not the U.S.

STROUL: Well, first of all, Iran is in a really difficult position. It was only about a month ago that President Trump was threatening to blow them up, and they've actually been a key security partner of the United States for quite a long time now. We use Oman for military access. We need their security cooperation.

They've been a member of very important maritime missions, and they also live right across the waterway from Iran. And in the past, have served as a very important diplomatic conduit for the United States in quiet negotiations and diplomacy with Iran, as well as a lot of other unsavory groups like the Houthis.

[20:45:10]

So we have an interest in working with the Omanis and making sure that they are safe. And right now they're actually trying quite hard to uphold this foundational principle Alan was talking about, which is freedom of navigation. And there's quite aggressive rhetoric by the Iranians toward Oman. So right now, we have to have our partners back in standing up for this foundational principle because they're the ones negotiating, not the United States.

BERMAN: Alan, at the end of the day, do you think the U.S. will have to accept some kind of a toll or fee or payment plan that enriches Iran to get the level of navigation of the strait back to where it was? EYRE: Well, John, a key point here is that it's not it's not about the money in the sense that, yes, Iran would like to monetize control of the strait. But what's primarily important for Iran regarding the strait is administrative operational control, because that gives them in their mind a form of strategic deterrence.

Yes, I think there will be some type of toll that will give them a lot of money, though less money as time goes on, as people find workarounds to passing through the strait. But I'm not so much worried about tolls as I am about the fact that Iran having operational control guts this principle of freedom of navigation that's essential to the modern world.

BERMAN: Alan Eyre, Dana Stroul, thank you both so much for being with us tonight.

EYRE: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: We have new reporting about how the fate of President Trump's new Air Force One jet, the one gifted from the Qatari government. The President had said the plane would go to his presidential library, which is planned to be built in Miami. But according to The New York Times, those plans are in flux, quote, "One person with knowledge of the discussion said that Mr. Trump had been considering decommissioning one of the two older Air Force One jets to display at the library, but that he also planned to take the Qatari jet as well. It's unclear if that plan was still in consideration."

Now, in addition to that, the President's son, Eric Trump, confirmed to NBC News that the Qatari-gifted plane is not the one going to Miami for the presidential library. So that leaves the question, what's going to happen to that plane? The President was asked directly about his plans for the jet in May of last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But do you plan to use it? Do you plan to use the plane after you leave office?

TRUMP: No, I don't. No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't?

TRUMP: It would go directly to the library after I leave office. It's something that was done by Ronald Reagan. They actually decommissioned the plane and he put it in his library.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: New York Times Investigative Reporter Eric Lipton joins us now with more on his reporting. Eric, what exactly is going on with the Qatari jet? Where is it going to end up?

ERIC LIPTON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: The short answer is we don't really know. At this point, you know, President Trump is flying it around the United States to various destinations. The United States government has spent, you know, somewhere close to $1 billion in terms of retrofitting it and also preparing pilots to fly the plane. They actually purchased another 747 from Lufthansa to prepare the pilots to fly the Qatari jet because it's so different from the old Air Force One.

So, you know, what we do know is that a great deal of federal tax dollars has been spent on the Qatari plane, but we aren't getting really straight answers as to exactly what's going to happen with it when President Trump leaves office.

BERMAN: So if the President does want to have a decommissioned version of the older Air Force One, there is a precedent for that. But how does it work? It takes a while for it to actually happen, right?

LIPTON: That's right. I mean, you know, President Reagan was, you know, was frequently flew the previous plane that was Air Force One before in 1990. The United States adopted the two planes that are currently used until the Qatari jet came into service. But it was while Reagan was in office, you know, he mused with someone from the Air Force, it would be nice to take this plane for my own library.

And ultimately it didn't actually happen until 2001, many years later, long after President Reagan left office, that that plane was authorized to go to the Reagan Foundation in California. And it's there now in a huge atrium on display at the Reagan Library. But, you know, this -- that took many years after Reagan left office. And what the Trump family has said is they'd like to see now one of the old Air Force Ones go to a future Trump library in Florida.

BERMAN: And who gets to decide? I mean, does any outgoing president just get to say, hey, I want to take a plane? I mean, how does it even work?

LIPTON: What has to happen, according to the law, is that the Pentagon has to declare the 747 to be excess or, you know, retired. And then the Air Force secretary makes a decision about what happens to that plane. So, you know, I guess it's possible that the President Trump, while in office, could effectively order his Air Force secretary to designate the old Air Force One to be excess and worthy of retirement and then send it off to Miami.

[20:50:11]

BERMAN: Interesting. I understand you also have some new reporting on Boeing's role in the delays plaguing the new Air Force One project, the one that was, in effect, the design and the production before the whole Qatari jet thing came into effect. What's the latest that you know?

LIPTON: Right. The new report was just released this week from the Pentagon, which shows that the first of those two planes that they ordered from Boeing is now going to be ready in the middle of 2028 and the second one in the middle of '29. And one of the things they identified that's adding to how long it's taking is that there's a bunch of cracks in what's called stringers on the 747 and they have, you know, hundreds of them still to fix before these planes are ready to fly as Air Force One because these cracks can cause structural integrity problems for the airplanes.

I mean, one of the interesting things is that the Qatari plane is also a 747-8, which also presumably has stringer cracks, but it does not appear as if they've been fixed as extensively as being done on the two Boeing jets.

BERMAN: Eric Lipton, you know an extraordinary amount on this subject. We appreciate you sharing a little bit of with us tonight. Thank you.

Up next for the first time, scientists use artificial intelligence to create new viruses from scratch. Why? Some see it as a boon for medical advancement while others see it as scary.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:07]

BERMAN: So here we go again with what could be a plot in a sci-fi thriller, but is reality. For the first time, scientists have used artificial intelligence to create brand-new viruses, 16 of them. Researchers at Stanford University and the Arc Institute say they trained an A.I. model called Evo on huge amounts of DNA data. Then that information was used to create the new synthetic viruses.

Their findings can be found in the journal Science. The good news, they say, the 16 new viruses created by A.I. pose no threat to humans and researchers hope this could pave the way for targeted new treatments for patients. But others do raise concerns, biosecurity concerns and more and this could eventually lead to creating dangerous bioweapons using A.I. There's that.

With us now, CNN Contributor and Technology Journalist Jake Ward, founder of TheRipCurrent.com. Jake, great to see you. Can you explain in terms that I can understand, that's a tall order, how A.I. was used in this experiment to create the viruses?

JACOB WARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, John, right, what we've been trying to figure out for a long time is how, for instance, would you create new antibiotics, right? That's a huge problem that we have in the medical field right now. We have all kinds of bacterial infections you can catch out of hospitals that current medicines really cannot fight.

And part of the problem is the incredible trial and error it takes to figure out what materials and nature might be the basis of a new antibiotic. In this case, what you've got is basically all of that trial and error collapsed into the kind of efficiency that A.I., you know, is always sold on. And so we have these scientists who might have spent, you know, years, a lifetime trying to figure out, are there any viruses in nature that could conceivably kill these bacteria in a Petri dish?

Instead, they could use A.I., pull in some data, build 300 or so new viruses, 16 of them come alive, and the work is more or less finished and published. That is an incredibly fast development process for a thing that we could really use in the future job. BERMAN: It is a heck of a headline though, right? A.I. creates new viruses. You can understand why people are asking, you know, asking for a friend here. I mean, how am I really supposed to feel about that?

WARD: Well, I think it's important to remember -- and I say this as someone who professionally covers all the bad stuff that A.I. can do. So take it from me that when you see a headline like, you know, A.I. virus not found in nature, I also had that momentary, you know, gulp that comes with that. But it's really important to understand a couple of things.

First of all, these scientists really did not pull in any training data that would have created something that a human could take, like a phage, which is what they've created here. It really only attacks a bacteria. It cannot get into human beings, just biologically.

And second of all, this is scientists doing this, who swear, you know, work by a bunch of rules. And in the published data here, they say to anyone who's going to do this in the future, well, you should make sure you've got these protocols and do this kind of safety thing. This is not, you know, ship it and figure out later whether it works.

This is not move fast and break things. These are very careful scientists. And we even have regulatory regimes at the federal level that aren't quite caught up, I would say, with A.I., but that in theory oversee this kind of stuff. But, you know, as you mentioned, you know, the thing that people are worried about here, and I think rightly so, is the access problem, right?

This is an OpenAI model they used. It's sitting on a website right now for anyone to pull down. Now, it takes an enormous amount of expertise and lab time and all of this stuff to be able to do it. But what people are worried about, right, is this question of should people be allowed to pull that model down and play with it themselves?

And there's a whole fight going on in the A.I. industry right now, whether we should be having these closed models, like you rent from OpenAI or Anthropic, or an open model like these scientists used. And this question really is, I would say, brought into real tension by this particular story, John.

BERMAN: Yes, no, it follows days where we learned about, you know, Agentic A.I. breaking into other companies there so you can understand what the question is being asked. But this appears to be a little different. Humans in the loop, safeguards, et cetera, et cetera.

Jake Ward, thank you for calming me down at least a little bit. I really appreciate it.

That is all for us tonight. I'm going to be back here tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m., alongside Sara Sidner tomorrow for CNN News Central. In the meantime, the Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.