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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Crushing Floods Devastate Villages on Nepal-China Border; A Hundred-Fifty Plus People Killed by Catastrophic Flood, Death Toll Expected to Rise; Remembering Dolly Parton, Musician, Philanthropist, Icon; Meta Settles Social Media Addiction Case for $18 Billion; Meta Calls on TikTok, YouTube to Join Landmark $18 Billion Settlement; Bill Gates Publishes Memo Warning That We Underestimated A.I.; Gates Says Dealing With A.I. Risks Should Be the World's Top Priority; Actor Tim Curry Dead at 80. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 26, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEE ANN WOMACK, COUNTRY MUSIC SINGER AND SONGWRITER: ... people's successes and other people's talent and I loved her for it and everybody does.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well, thank you for celebrating her with us and sharing those memories. I think all of us, everybody sort of clings to them now to hear about them and to realize that the woman that we all saw from afar actually is the real woman, the woman that people like you knew and loved. So, thank you so much, Lee Ann, I appreciate it.
WOMACK: So happy to do it. Thank you.
BURNETTE: And thanks of course, to all of you, as always, for being with us tonight. AC360 starts right now.
[20:00:40]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with the desperate and difficult search underway in Nepal for hundreds, possibly thousands of people, including at least 47 Americans. They're missing after a landslide sent a wall of water and mud several stories high, sweeping through towns and cities along the border between China and Nepal. Those are buses you see about to be swept away there. Elsewhere, it was entire bridges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF ONE OF THE BRIDGES IN NEPAL WASHED AWAY BY FLOOD.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The speed of the water, the power of it is hard to fathom. This is other surveillance video from high above the gorge. Those are people down there being swept away. You can see the water roaring down the valley. Then overtopping a multi-story building, washing people away. Some though are lucky they saw it coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF PEOPLE FLEEING AWAY FROM THE FLOOD IN NEPAL.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Some people fleeing on motorcycles. This video from a greater distance shows more of the scale of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF THE FLOOD IN NEPAL SHOWING THE SCALE OF DAMAGE IT BROUGHT.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So much of the destruction came too quickly and too close for anyone to be saved. But some who were lucky enough to escape the immediate destruction still were left stranded and had to be pulled from rooftops on helicopters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Again, though, scenes like that aside, hundreds are missing, including more than 300 foreign nationals among them, as we said, 47 Americans. Upwards of 150 people are known to have died at a time of the year when people from all around the world make pilgrimages to the area.
We begin our coverage with CNN's Will Ripley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A bridge snaps before being swept away as flood water pours into Nepal's Trishuli River. Video shared on social media shows people running and riding away on motorbikes, realizing how little time they have to get to safety.
At this Himalayan border crossing, people on the street could probably hear the danger coming before they could see it. A recently rebuilt, earthquake resistant building blocked their view of the monster wall of water until it was too late. From this view, you can see the flood water's ferocious speed and massive scale. People desperately running for their lives have nowhere safe to go. In what appears to be about 20 seconds on video, the flood consumes everything in its path.
A row of buses, a four-story building, a bridge gone, buried beneath a black wall of water. From the air, a helicopter pilot watches the disaster race through the valleys below, sweeping away homes, trees and roads.
AMAN BUDATHOKI, HELICOPTER PILOT: The whole scenario, it was horrendous. It was uncanny anything like you've ever seen before.
RIPLEY (voice over): On this bus in Nepal, passengers spot the giant waves crashing into the bridge behind them. The streets are full of people trying to get away. Panic fills the bus as passengers look out the windows at the horror unfolding.
In the same town, from the safety of a hillside temple, people watch helplessly as the deluge of dark water breaks apart a bridge like a toy dragging it downstream.
This video from the Nepal Red Cross captures the speed and strength of the water, whipping around cars and tearing down power lines in its path. The flood came crashing down from high in the Himalayas. Scientists at Kathmandu University believe an avalanche of ice and rock may have blocked a river until the water broke through a torrent of water, mud and debris forcing it's way downstream, submerging or destroying buildings, tearing villages apart.
Mile after mile of these majestic mountain valleys, a dark scar carved into the landscape. Foreign tourists, including Americans, are among the missing at this vital land gateway between China and Nepal. The mudslide ripped apart roads, knocking out power and communications, leaving communities on both sides of the border cut off.
On the ground, people get their first look at what little the flood left behind. And amid the horror hope a helicopter makes a daring rooftop rescue. One of many in the hours and days ahead.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[20:05:53]
COOPER: Well, joining us now is Ben Ayers. He's a journalist with "Outside Magazine" who's been based in Nepal for more than 20 years. He's co-host of the "Everest Live" podcast. Also joining us, Dan Sugar, who's an associate professor in the earth energy and environment department at the University of Calgary. Ben, you know this area well, first of all, just what goes through your mind as you see these extraordinarily just devastating videos?
BEN AYERS, "OUTSIDE MAGAZINE" JOURNALIST: We can't help but think about what the experiences of the people in that valley must have been like, just the size and the scale of this event is unprecedented. And, it's really hard to just imagine, you know, what that was like. And this was, you know, as you saw in many of the videos, it was a blue- sky event. This is something that didn't come after days and days of rain. It wasn't something that happened slowly. It literally came out of nowhere.
COOPER: And Ben, just in terms of this area, the ability of, of rescue crews to get there, how difficult a rescue recovery operation is this going to be?
AYERS: It's going to be incredibly difficult. There's damage over a hundred kilometers down the river. You know, about 60 miles and getting around Nepal in the best of in the best of days is difficult, made more difficult during the monsoon season as roads wash out. But this river basically splits Nepal in half.
So, all of the main roadways trade arteries, everything in this is destroyed for rescue teams, the only real way to access the areas will be by helicopter. And that's just not an efficient way to get a lot of people there. The police and the Army are coordinating those events, but were looking at a very, very long road ahead.
COOPER: Professor, what, if anything, at this stage can you determine, based on the videos or satellite imagery you've seen about the cause of this?
DAN SUGAR, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE EARTH ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALGARY. Yes, looking at satellite imagery from about 12 hours ago, we could figure out that a large chunk of glacier had collapsed into the valley below.
Unfortunately, you know, as Ben was saying, because this is the monsoon, the area is still pretty cloudy. And so, it's hard to tell whether there was, additional sort of large landslide that accompanied that.
These videos that were seeing the amounts of the volumes of water coming through the valley are just astounding amounts of water and debris and a little bit hard to reconcile how much were seeing in these videos with how much glacier ice we know was, was, was lost. And so, there's got to be some other element to the story that we just, we can't see quite yet from the satellite imagery.
COOPER: And Ben, in terms of again rescue work in Nepal, what are the, the resources that, that they have? it's obviously a very poor country.
AYERS: Yes, I mean unfortunately Nepal is, you know, it's quite a poor country, but also Nepal is subject to these kinds of natural disasters all the time, being in the Himalayas, issues with climate change, you know, with these natural disasters, it's seismically prone. It's something that we see over and over again there.
Despite this, the only real resources in the country with any kind of scale would be the Army and the police. Unfortunately, there are 83 security forces that were actually, that are missing from the flood itself. Nepal is a really resource constrained areas, sorry, country. So, getting people on the scene here, even being able to come up with an effective plan is going to be incredibly difficult. And it's not just in the rescue phase, but were moving into, you know, the end of the monsoon, the harvest season, the economic damage to this to the entire country is something that will be felt for years to come.
COOPER: Professor. I mean, again, limited what we know, is there anything that geologists can do to predict something like this? Would there have been any kind of advance warning to anybody about this?
[20:10:14] SUGAR: Yes, certainly the million-dollar question. It's in preliminary analysis so far shows that there probably was some sort of deformation of this slope prior to the failure this morning or yesterday. You know, in steep mountain environments like this or, you know, anywhere in high mountain Asia or the Andes or the Rockies, et cetera., a lot of slopes are moving and, you know, we as a scientific community and governments really need to be paying a lot more attention to these slopes before they, you know, before they develop into disasters.
This is, you know, as Ben was saying, Nepal sees its fair share more than its fair share of these kinds of events. But this one, you know, as we can see in the video right here, this is the worst that I've ever seen.
COOPER: Yes, it's just, it is truly just horrific. Dan Sugar, appreciate it, Ben Ayers as well, really appreciate it.
Coming up just ahead tonight, my exclusive conversation with Bill Gates, who is sounding the alarm on A.I., warning about its potentially dire consequences, saying it should be, in his words, the world's top priority to address them.
Next, the live reports from Dolly Parton's home in Theme Park Dollywood. Also, actor and director Henry Winkler. What it was like to direct her in the first tv movie she made "A Smoky Mountain Christmas".
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:51]
COOPER: We're going to be continuing to follow the flooding in Nepal and bring you any updates as warranted throughout the evening, tonight, as the search for hundreds of missing there continues.
Right now, though, today's bittersweet remembrances of Dolly Parton, starting in London.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF KING'S GUARD PLAYING "9 TO 5" IN BUCKINGHAM PALACE.)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That is the King's Guard playing "9 to 5" at Buckingham Palace today. Their tribute to Dolly Parton, who died yesterday, is being celebrated around the world today. No less musical royalty than Sir Paul McCartney saying, "It is hard to imagine living in a world without Dolly."
Taylor Swift sang simply "A world without Dolly doesn't feel possible, real or right." Her goddaughter, Miley Cyrus, called the loss she was experiencing "beyond what feels right to share." This, by the way, is a look at the growing collection of tributes to Dolly Parton statue not far from where she grew up in Eastern Tennessee. CNN's Sara Sidner is outside Nashville, where she lived, and she joins us now from there. What's the scene like -- Sara?
SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's beautiful because all day long people have been coming and bringing messages, notes, flowers. And I'll give you, just a look at it. We're right outside the gate, her home behind it. The flags at half-staff.
But really, this is a story about the outpouring of love for her. People are quoting her songs. They are sort of using the "I Will Always Love You" song and turning into "We will always love you, Dolly." We've seen that a lot today.
You know, this place is special to Dolly. Nashville and the outskirts special to her because she came here as a kid. She's from Tennessee, obviously. She came here 13 years old. Was the first time that she performed at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville, which is just down the road a bit. And then when she graduated high school, she couldn't wait to get here.
She left the day she graduated, the day after, and she showed up here at 18 years old and she wanted to be a star. And boy, did she keep that promise to herself.
Now, Dolly Parton has written and performed some of the most heart wrenching, the most barn raising, the most boot scooting songs that you could ever imagine. And that's what people are remembering here. But they're also remembering her humanity. We have seen lots of children coming, some of them with books they got from the imagination library. She put that in place so that kids learn to read and learn, to love to read. And there's a lot of talk about her humanity, her kindness.
But this place has a special place in her heart, and she has a special place in Nashville, because there's a lot of people around here who played with her, who were able to see her genius up close and personal and learn from it, and also get to hang out with her and listen to her wit.
There's a lot of folks that when they tell stories, they're filled with sorrow, but then they start laughing because they start thinking about all the things she said and did and the jokes, she made, and just the happiness that she brought. So, were seeing that over and over and over again, played out here in and around Nashville -- Anderson.
COOPER: And how long have people been gathering there for? They've been gathering here since last night. It was a real shock to many people, because you'll remember that several months ago, her sister had put this message out to the public saying, you know, please pray for Dolly. And people thought, oh my gosh, is she okay? And then Dolly came back. She says, I'm fine, I'm going to be all right.
And now, here we are several months later and she is gone. So, a lot of people were holding on to hope that she was going to be all right. But unfortunately, she had a short, as they put it, bout with cancer. And she didn't make it.
I do want to let you listen to these stories. I want to give you the juxtaposition of what people are feeling. Those who got to be around her, like a member of the Oak Ridge Boys, the lead singer, been there for 60 years, played with dolly at the Grand Ole Opry. Here's what he had to say. And a makeup artist that got to spend a day with her and Kenny Rogers. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUANE ALLEN, LEAD SINGER, OAK RIDGE BOYS: It was so great just to sit down and sing with her and be with her. She's everything you ever dreamed a star would be plus more.
I was devastated when I heard it yesterday. I couldn't hardly talk for a while.
PAULA TURNER, MAKE-UP ARTIST: It's heartbreaking. I mean, she was truly a trailblazer, and for women and for music and for songwriting and she was just a legend.
She was walking out of her dressing room, and I have naturally curly hair, and she was wearing her curly haired wig that day. And she looked at me and she said, look, we have the same hair. She was -- The only difference is yours is real. And I was like, oh, I love that. And she was just funny as she always is, and quick with her wit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:49]
SIDNER: And there you go, the juxtaposition between the sorrow they feel that she is gone. But the joy they felt just being in her presence and the joy we all felt from listening to her music. And I do want to leave you with this. Dolly has given us so many gifts for so many decades, and there is another gift that she has promised us all, but were going to have to wait for it. She has under lock and key, an unreleased song, a song that she wrote in 2015 that she has put in lock and key, and she said, look, that can only be opened and released when she would have turned 100 years old. That is, in 2046, I can only hope there are all around to hear it -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, let's hope. Sara Sidner, thank you, appreciate it.
Starting in 1986, Dolly Parton fans had a theme park of their own. Dolly would of course, soon grew and now encompasses a water park, two hotels. CNN's Jason Carroll has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Those who knew Dolly Parton say she would agree with the old adage, the show must go on. And here in Dollywood, the theme park that she created, nestled in Sevier County, where she grew up, it does go on.
It was open today and filled with fans to share how she had touched their lives. Even in the smallest of ways.
ALI GRAHAM, DOLLY PARTON FAN: My grandpa swears Dolly Parton winked at him when they saw her back in, like the 70s, and my grandma will deny it to this day, but behind his back say she really gets winked at.
CARROLL (voice over): It's well-known Parton was a prolific songwriter and singer, but here in these parts, she is just as well known for how she gave back to her community. Not uncommon to hear from adults who remember getting free books as children. Thanks to Parton's literacy program, Imagination Library, which she started in 1995.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got her books growing up as a child, so we all did promotion of education.
CARROLL (on camera): Oh wait, all of you got --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Imagination Library, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you got the book every month, yes.
CARROLL: A book every month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I still read them.
CARROLL (voice over): Millions of children receive books, all because Parton's father could not read or write. And Parton, who grew up very poor, wanted to make sure children learn to love reading regardless of income.
Her philanthropic efforts didn't end there. In 1991, she created a Buddy Program in Sevier County to improve school dropout rates.
DAVID WEAR, PIGEON FORGE CITY MANAGER: You get a buddy, you pick your buddy, and you and your buddy make it through high school. She gives you $500.00 each.
CARROLL (voice over): David Wear was one of those recipients. He later became mayor and now city manager of Pigeon Forge, the small town next to Parton's hometown, Sevierville.
WEAR: And years later, here I am getting to work with her on the government.
CARROLL (on camera): Can you tell me what it was like working with her?
WEAR: She was -- So, everybody knows Dolly on stage. Everybody knows Dolly, in the interviews she's so wonderful. She's so charismatic, witty, gritty, resourceful, funny, she's larger than life.
CARROLL (voice over): Folks around here say just about everyone has a Dolly story.
CHIEF RICHARD CATLETT, PIGEON FORGE POLICE: Once that I came in, she accepted me just like id been around her my whole career. CARROLL (voice over): Pigeon Forge police chief used to help with Parton's security team. He says she was genuine, down to earth, and had a good sense of humor.
CATLETT: Tried to make best working conditions over there that she could.
CARROLL (on camera): I'm wondering how you think she might be remembered.
CATLETT: I told her one time that she's larger than Elvis.
CARROLL (on camera): Oh, you told her she was larger than Elvis.
CATLETT: She just kind of laughed that off. Said, there's no way.
CARROLL (voice over): Humor, grace, generosity in honor of her life flowers and cards left at a makeshift memorial at her statue in her hometown, all to honor a woman embraced by the world, but someone who never lost touch with the place that shaped who she was.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: And so, Anderson, now there's this big question what happens to Dollywood now that Dolly Parton is gone? Well, you know, the folks here at this amusement park, you know, released a statement saying that it was always Dolly Parton's wishes for the park to go on, to continue to be a place of joy, hope and togetherness.
And so, the feeling now is that this will now become a living memorial of who she was. And, you know, I was talking to Joanna. She runs the gift shop right over here and she's been here for a while. And when I asked her the question about what do you think happens to the park now? She said, "look, she's already seen little girls come to the park, having little girl Dolly parties and so the feeling is that all that she represented in one generation will now be passed on to a younger generation who will continue to enjoy the park -- Anderson.
[20:25:22]
COOPER: Yes, well, let's hope so, Jason Carol, appreciate it, thank you.
And take a look, this was the first movie Dolly Parton made, and it was directed by Henry Winkler. He joins me in a moment to talk about working with her.
Also, later tonight, sad to say, another loss. We remember actor Tim Curry, who starred in Hollywood hits like "Home Alone," "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", and many more. We'll be right back.
[20:29:53]
COOPER: More now on the life and legacy of Dolly Parton. In a moment, I'll speak with my friend, actor/director, Henry Winkler. He directed her in her first tv movie back in 1986 called "A Smoky Mountain Christmas" set in her home state of Tennessee. Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOLLY PARTON, AMERICAN ARTIST, SINGER, SONGWRITER: Anyway, you feel about yourself, that's called having confidence, and that's really good. But when you get right down to it, it's not the package that really matters. It's what's inside the wrapping, it's what's down deep in your heart. That's what really counts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that true?
PARTON: That's very, very true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:29]
COOPER: And Henry Winkler joins me now. Henry, it's great to see you. What was she like when you were working with her? What went through your mind when you heard she had died?
HENRY WINKLER, ACTOR & DIRECTOR: OK, so the first time I met her was in my office at Paramount. She came because she was going to see if she wanted me to direct the movie. We sat for five minutes and then she said, I'd like you to direct my movie, and I went. That's it.
I have all my notes. I have all my ideas. She was then the way she was for the last moment on this earth. There are very few people that I have ever met in my life who have an idea of who they are and then live it as opposed to I want something and I'm going to figure out how to get it.
COOPER: And I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
WINKLER: Not that I --
COOPER: Sorry, go ahead.
WINKLER: No, I know. I was just going to say the last part. And how did I feel? The universe was torn when we lost Dolly Parton. You know, there are so many people across the world that die every moment and then there is someone who just lit up the universe and that light is dim now.
COOPER: Well, I got to meet her through I think our mutual friend, Sandy Gallin, who you know very well --
WINKLER: Yes.
COOPER: -- or knew very well, and who we miss as well. But it's interesting to me that she never changed, the person you first met was the person you met every time you met her decades later.
WINKLER: It is absolutely true and it's not just true of me, it is true of every human being that came, or was lucky enough to be in her aura.
You know, 30, 40 years later, I had an Italian dinner with her at a restaurant here in L.A. She had a great appetite. You would not imagine that. She loved food. And again, it was because of the late great Sandy Gallin. She never changed an iota of her essence. It was like something to be in or around her.
I am so lucky that I had the opportunity.
COOPER: It's also rare for somebody from the world of music to be able to have a very successful career in Hollywood, whether it's on television or in movies. It's a hard crossover to make.
(CROSSTALK)
WINKLER: It is a hard crossover for most people to make. But here is a woman who said -- I watched an interview that she did with Barbara Walters and she said then at the very beginning, I know exactly who I am. I know exactly what I want. People have said you must change your image. She said I'm going to make a fortune out of it.
She absolutely was from her wig to her toes, knew exactly where her place was on the earth.
COOPER: Well, Henry, I texted Andy when I heard the news about Dolly Parton. I said that, you know, if there is an afterlife, I hope Sandy is there greeting her as she comes in to let her know the lay of the land as he probably did in Hollywood as well.
Henry Winkler, it's great to have you on. Thank you.
WINKLER: But I just want to say that if there is a God, she is in heaven and he is very, very fortunate now to have her in his home.
COOPER: Yeah. Henry, thank you. Always a pleasure.
Coming up next, after years of touting how good its safeguards already were for kids online, Facebook and Instagram's parent company agrees to do far more than today's $18 billion lawsuit settlement. Plus, my exclusive conversation with Bill Gates on the dangers he now sees in A.I.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:38:53]
COOPER: Meta, the parent company of Instagram and Facebook, agreed to a historic settlement of $18 billion today in a move that ends a federal trial where Meta was accused of intentionally designing addictive social media platforms that harm the mental health of young users. Now, the tech company admits no wrongdoing under the deal, but says it'll pay out the billions to fund youth online safety programs for 48 states.
The only states not joining the settlement were Florida and New Mexico. CNN Contributor and Tech Journalist, Jake Ward joins us. He's been covering the trial since it started last week. He's the founder of "TheRipCurrent.com."
So, Jake, what about the changes Meta says it will make to Instagram and Facebook? What are those actually expected to be?
JAKE WARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR AND TECH JOURNALIST: Well, Anderson, you know, if you told your average reasonable person what these are, they'd say, really, those aren't a matter of law already? They're fairly, you know, straightforward. There's a daily two-hour cap across Facebook and Instagram combined for kids. Only a parent can turn that off.
There's a block at night that begins at midnight, ends at 6 a.m. There's a whole new thing where they're basically taking away the default setting for teenagers that would slap a like and reaction count on them, which one witness said was like a badge of popularity that was doing incredible mental health harm to girls especially.
[20:40:00]
These are all, you know, fairly common-sense things. And the thing is, Anderson, you know, sitting in the courtroom as I have been, these are things that basically researchers inside the company have been arguing for, for a long time, but had, according to the states, been turned away so that Meta could make a little more advertising revenue. So this is all now being put into place as part of the settlement along with the money.
COOPER: And do we know what specific features on their platforms are not going to change?
WARD: Well, this is the really interesting part. The stuff that's carved out, for instance, are DMs, direct messages. DMing your friends on Instagram is one of the number one ways that people socialize, they date, you know, that's what high school runs on right now and there's no limits around that. Those are carved out.
And A.I., which Meta has said is its future, those features are also not part of this. And so in theory, you're not allowed to scroll your feed for more than two hours, but you can stay up all night DMing with an A.I. chatbot and so there's some definite limitations to this settlement, Anderson. I think, you know, fundamentally you mentioned a moment ago the lack of democratic input. We've been looking for that from the federal government for a long time now.
We were looking to the states for it, they've provided some of it with this settlement. But now, it's the thousands more private actions, the plaintiffs that are school districts and individuals that are undoubtedly going to carry the ball from here as we see their big trials go forward.
COOPER: Yeah, Jacob Ward, really appreciate it, all your coverage. Thank you.
I want to turn now to a warning from Bill Gates about artificial intelligence. The Microsoft co-founder is sounding the alarm in a new essay he's put out arguing that the A.I. industry is not admitting the real risk of the technology and he says it should be, quote, "the world's top priority to deal with those risks." He writes, "The turbulent A.I. era is here, the choices we make now are critical."
He says A.I. will either be the greatest equalizer ever invented or the worst source of injustice. Gates thinks the world is not preparing for what's to come. I spoke to Gates earlier in an exclusive T.V. interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Bill, you said that there's no plan to ease the entry into the A.I. era and that we underestimate the impact of A.I. In what way?
BILL GATES, CO-FOUNDER, MICROSOFT: Over the last year, these AIs have gotten dramatically more powerful, even faster than I expected, and they're now capable of causing cyber attack risk, bioterrorism risk, psychosocial risk. And I have to say, I'm kind of shocked that the exact criteria that we review these models with and the actions we take to minimize the harms are really completely missing and the broad dialog we get all of society talking about the trade-offs here, that's just not taking place.
And so, you know, we've got to minimize these harms through careful review and criteria, and we have to accelerate the good stuff, or else, you know, we could have a complete backlash that A.I. would suffer from.
COOPER: I talked to Dario Amodei last May. He was estimating 50 percent of all entry-level white-collar jobs could be eliminated between -- in the next one to five years, 10 to 20 percent unemployment possibly in the next five years. You write about what you think are the three big risks that come with the transition to A.I. Can you just go through them?
GATES: Yeah, so there's a big risk of people with ill intent, either defrauding people, cyber attacks, or in the extreme case, bioterrorism. So, you know, these negative uses, we need to monitor things like creating a dangerous virus to see if that's happening.
Another problem will be the job market change, which has not happened yet, but because the AIs are getting so reliable now, they can be used for a variety of well-defined jobs, and that would be a tough thing to adjust to. And finally, just the psychosocial effect that a kid might have all their friends being AIs and not be pushed to deal with real humans and, you know, all the learnings and joy you get by being engaged socially.
And so every one of those things, I'm very concerned and I want to slow down or eliminate those negative effects.
COOPER: Well, I mean, is that possible? I mean, on the job loss, you know, the counter argument that some people make is, look, you know, at every technological change, there's been job losses. You know, with the electric light bulb, lamp lighters lost their jobs.
[20:45:00] You, in this essay, make the argument that a lot of past technological changes, the job losses have taken place over a longer period of time, even several generations in some cases. These job losses will come much quicker and all at once.
GATES: Yes, it's across every sector of the economy. Initially with white collar, but then as the humanoid robots come along, blue collar as well. You will have for the first time the equivalent of human cognition. So that past history misleads people because there, we were richer and so jobs like designing rides at Disneyland, having more psychiatrists, we were richer enough to create those additional jobs.
Here, as the machine gets better than human for well-defined jobs and works 24 hours a day, it's going to be a bigger deal. And so the bar for somebody coming along and saying this time is different is very high. But I'm staking my reputation completely on the fact that in terms of the impact on the job market, this is very different than any technology that I've been involved in or that has come across in human history.
COOPER: How concerned are you about -- and do you think society has kind of considered enough what the impact of just people not having -- or machines or computers being able to do jobs much better than humans can? I mean, like what happens to pride in work or human initiative or I mean, you write about what happens to kids and critical thinking. That seems really alarming to me.
GATES: Yes. You know, the AIs can do unbelievable good, including if you want to learn more, you know, have an aid to help make better decisions, analyze data. I'm a very excited user. But it is such a dramatic change that I really expected this last year, as we crossed the threshold of danger, that society would get involved in this dialog. Instead, right now you have, you know, people in the industry sort of disagreeing with each other.
But to get the right solutions politically, to bring the right expertise to bear, to make it democratically valid, to move as quickly as we need to, it's got to be the academicians, it's got to be more corporate voices and eventually, you know, politicians in both parties listening to these concerns and making sure we don't end up with some, you know, sort of just pure black-and-white stop at all because we don't have the right reviews and thresholds and safeguards.
COOPER: As a parent, I mean, it's hard to fully grasp what's going to happen in the next five years, let alone 15. What do you say to parents about -- if you had little kids now, how would you be approaching this?
GATES: Yeah, I spent a few days with the two granddaughters I have, three and one. And you know, it just makes you think, what will education be like? I divide the challenge here into two periods. We have the next 20 years where the AIs are not able to, you know, make all the food and do the manufacturing and, you know, maintain all the robots. And so you'll have -- once you get to that 20-year period, you'll have deep purpose issues, but you'll have a lot of abundance. I'm more focused in this memo on how do we get through this incredibly turmoil-ridden period we'll have where society is adjusting to this completely unprecedented set of capabilities. And you know, I'm saying don't think that they're going to stop and not be good at things. There's people who, you know, think, oh, they must -- they must -- you're going to reach some upper bound. For the majority of jobs, that is not the case.
And so, the silence is what really drove me to speak out at this point, because we have to get everybody's voice in this. You know, these are a set of democratic tradeoffs that have to be made. And you know, people think, OK, I'll block a data center. That really isn't going to slow things down. Those data centers will show up somewhere.
We have to take the A.I. issue, and it's the bads versus the goods on in a very explicit way.
COOPER: One of the things you write, you said this is either going to be the greatest equalizer ever invented or the worst source of injustice.
[20:50:00]
Which one do you think it is right now, if you had to guess, which one is it going to be?
GATES: I still believe that if we activate society broadly, both as users, as a lot of experts, you know, what I am saying is that for all of the challenges, there would be a serious review and a criteria under which a model had to meet things like being monitorable for creating bioterrorism tools.
And so, I still think it's within our grasp to shape this in a net positive way. You know, it's like when nuclear came along, is it nuclear weapons or is it nuclear energy? This is a thousand times bigger and has both the negative aspect and the positive coexisting in the same technology.
COOPER: I do want to ask you about Jeffrey Epstein. This is your first television appearance since your closed-door interview before the House Oversight Committee which is investigating Epstein's crimes. What was the extent of your relationship with Epstein? Did you ever interact with any of his victims?
GATES: Yeah, I really appreciated the opportunity to go in and answer every question that day. And that's all public. People are curious. I encourage them to look at that. I went through every single meeting, every single email. I didn't have a social relationship. I didn't meet any women through him.
I had a misguided view that he could facilitate my raising philanthropic funds for global health. It was a gigantic mistake, which I talked about in my testimony, and I really learned from that. I'm very apologetic that I gave him any credibility at all. And I spent today really saying what I did do and being very, very clear what I did not. COOPER: There was a series of graphic, unverified allegations against you that Epstein appears to have written himself in July of 2013 in these draft emails that were never sent. It sounded like he was trying to blackmail you. Were you aware he was trying to do that?
GATES: No. It's complicated enough that really that's where, you know, the -- what is it -- several hundred pages of testimony gets to it. And you know, I didn't know that he was considering blackmailing me. He never did blackmail me, but you know, it just shows how foolish I was to spend time with him.
COOPER: Bill, thanks so much for your time.
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Well, coming up, remembering actor Tim Curry, who died today after a remarkable life and acting career.
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COOPER: Today, we learned that Tim Curry, who made the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" the pinnacle of glam and camp and gleeful audience participation, has died. He was 80-years-old. Randi Kaye has more.
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RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unapologetic and eccentric, that was Tim Curry. The British-born actor best known for his role as the outlandish, cross-dressing mad scientist in the cult classic, "Rocky Horror Picture Show."
In 1975, he stormed onto the movie scene as Dr. Frank-N-Furter. Before the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" hit the big screen, Curry had perfected that role on stage in London.
TIM CURRY, ACTOR: He had a lot of power, Frank. He gave a lot of teenagers permission to be different, and I'm very happy that he did have that power.
KAYE (voice-over): Over the decades, Curry brought to life some of the most beloved misfits and villains. Effortlessly, it seemed, moving between stage and screen.
WADSWORTH, PLAYED BY TIM CURRY, "CLUE": I'm merely a humble butler.
KAYE (voice-over): Wadsworth, the butler, in "Clue." Con artist, Rooster Hannigan in "Annie." And Pennywise, the murderous clown in the 1990 miniseries, "It."
Before that, Curry appeared on Broadway in 1980 as the title role in "Amadeus." The play won a Tony Award, and he was nominated for Best Actor.
NIGEL ST. NIGEL, PLAYED BY TIM CURRY, "PSYCH": I feel like I've been incarcerated in a blueberry.
KAYE (voice-over): Curry's voice, perhaps one of his greatest gifts, as well as his laughter.
CURRY: One of the keys is to not encourage an identity, I think, and I've tried to nurse that.
KAYE (voice-over): In 2012, Curry's life was turned upside down when he had a stroke. In his 2025 memoir, "Vagabond," Curry described getting an emergency craniectomy to remove blood clots in his brain. He suffered facial paralysis and had to learn how to speak again.
Curry was born in 1946 in England. His father died of a stroke when Curry was just a young boy.
CURRY: He had a stroke, and as they were about to take him into the ambulance, he said, look after your mother.
KAYE (voice-over): Tim Curry never married, nor would he ever discuss his private life. As he wrote in his book, I have loved and have been loved, and I hope you have too. In one of his last interviews, he was asked about dying and shared he had no fear of death.
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CURRY: I suspect that in the end I will welcome it. I think it may be very comforting to go bye-bye, and I want to earn it.
KAYE (voice-over): Tim Curry was 80-years-old.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
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COOPER: Quite a life. That's it for us. The news continues. "The Source" starts now.
