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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Awaiting Judge's Ruling After Hearing on Trump White House Press Ban Case; Trump Greets Chinese Leader Xi at Arrival Ceremony; Three People Seen Exiting Sewer Near Netanyahu's Hotel in NYC. Three People Seen Exiting Sewer Near Netanyahu's Hotel in NYC; U.S. Secret Service Providing Security for Iran's President at U.N.; Democrats Eyeing a Miracle in Kansas Senate Race; New Surveillance Video Shows Apparent Pursuit Before ICE Shooting of Venezuelan DoorDash Driver; Dolly Parton Estate Granted Restraining Order Against Her Nephew. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired September 23, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ...to remove the bullet that is still in his body -- Erin.

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Thanks so much for watching. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:36]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening, from the Newsroom. A D.C. federal judge could weigh in anytime now on whether the President of the United States can bar members of the press, including this network from the White House. District Judge Timothy Kelly promised to respond, "as soon as possible" after listening to arguments this afternoon from both sides in the case, which pits CNN, MISS NOW and POLITICO against the President, who kicked all three organizations off White House grounds last Friday.

Today in court, the Justice Department argued that reports from the three created National Security concerns, especially in light of Chinese leader Xi Jinping's visit. It's a position the DOJ laid out in a filing that reads, in part, "... access to the White House is a privilege, not a right. The President has found that plaintiffs have engaged in a number of reporting incidents that have threatened National Security. Such reporting directly raises National Security concerns."

Now, for the plaintiff's part, CNN attorney, Ted Boutrous called attention to the fact that those concerns were never mentioned at all when the President rolled out this ban. On a quote what the President actually said when he posted about the ban on Friday, "Media outlets shouldn't be able to constantly write or report fiction and lies when they're covering the President of United States. The Trump administration, or the United States of America."

So that's what he was allegedly upset about, coverage of him, not threats to National Security, which he did not start citing as justification until after that post. And he's kept the focus on himself.

On Monday, he wrote virtually every story about me or anything having to do with me is negative, wrong, and in many cases dangerous for our country. No matter how great my achievements, they trivialize and demean.

In court today, Attorney Boutrous said, "He keeps proving our point. He's really our lead witness here. What's more, the White House's own letter to POLITICO yesterday explaining the President's ban, seems to also argue that this was personal, quoting now, "In September 2026, POLITICO playbook relied on unnamed sources to paint the Republican Midterm Convention in Dallas as a disaster. Media reporting showed that the convention had over 100 million live stream views."

Again, Judge Kelly, whom the President appointed but now calls, "totally disloyal," could rule any time. Perhaps on First Amendment grounds, perhaps, as he suggested at the start of today's hearing, simply on whether or not the ban was imposed after due process.

The President promises to appeal in any event, and though he's made it clear he does not like the press, it's also worth remembering that few, if any, presidents have and even John F. Kennedy, who had reporters as friends, acknowledged their role wasn't supposed to be a friendly one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed, and no republic can survive. That is why our press was protected by the First Amendment. The only business in America, specifically protected by the Constitution, not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply give the public what it wants, but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities to indicate our crises and our choices to lead, mold, educate, and sometimes even anger public opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: More now from CNN chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source" Kaitlan Collins. So, is there any sense of how the White House thought the hearing went and where this is all headed?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": I mean, The White House went into the hearing, Anderson, not with extremely high hopes in terms of where this is potentially going. But obviously, we don't know yet. And the judge has not made his decision, despite the President who appointed this judge. I should note President Trump did in his first term.

The President has signaled he doesn't think that this judge is going to rule in his favor and he's made that pretty clear.

COOPER: He's calling him disloyal, which is kind of an incredible criticism of a judge he appointed.

COLLINS: Well, yes, and he said that he was unfortunately appointed by Trump. But I mean, that's more reflective of how the President feels about the people that he put on the court in his first term, going all the way up to his justices, that he is criticized and said are shells of their former selves, the people that he interviewed.

So, obviously, it's a President who has spent his entire political career being critical of the judiciary. And so, in terms of this case in and of itself, you know, listening to it was pretty remarkable because one thing that I talked about with the ambassador to the United Nations, Mike Waltz, about earlier this week was this argument that it is for national security purposes, why the reporters who reporting they don't like, why they should not be reporting certain stories that they mentioned.

And Mike Waltz cited National Security to me on Monday night. That's actually something that the President never brought up on Friday or Saturday or Sunday. It wasn't until Monday that he then started bringing up National Security as a reason for this.

And one of the stories they cited, Anderson, was reports on low munitions when it comes to the Pentagon and what they have in their stockpile. That's actually something the inspector general, the watchdog for the Pentagon, has put in a report that is, you know, congressionally mandated that went to Congress. They have to put that out there.

[20:05:38]

And so, it's not really clear why that was a point of criticism. But in terms of the ban overall and what it means right now, it's actually denying the President of something that he's been looking forward to for months, which is wall to wall coverage of this state visit by the Chinese President that's happening right now.

Trump actually did something really rare by going out to Joint Base Andrews today to greet the Chinese leader as he was arriving with his family. The First Lady, Melania Trump, was there as well, but none of the cameras for the five major networks were there because they're standing in solidarity with CNN. They did not send a camera or request to go and cover that at Joint Base. Andrews was denied by the White House.

And so, therefore, you're not seeing that. And I think that actually says something in and of itself. And so, we'll see when this gets resolved, what the judge rules and when he rules. But obviously, a lot of the state visit is going to be playing out over the next 24 hours. COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thanks. We'll see you at the top of the next hour for "The Source". Among Kaitlan's guests will be Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Joining me now, two former federal prosecutors, CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig joins me here in the newsroom, Jeff Toobin as well. And joining us is former federal judge Nancy Gertner.

Elie, what's the biggest takeaway from the hearing?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Donald Trump is our lead witness. That was a sentence that today in court, Anderson, by CNN's lawyer. And what he meant by that is the obvious real reason for this ban is simply that Donald Trump doesn't like CNN's coverage. He thinks it's too negative, he thinks it's unforgiving. He thinks it's unfair.

Now, there's no mystery to this because you can see Donald Trump said that time and again Friday, Saturday, Sunday, so did J.D. Vance, so did Marco Rubio. It was only very late in the game when the lawyers get the case, they realize this is a losing hand under the First Amendment. If you're discriminating because you don't like the coverage, you're going to lose. And then they try to backfill in this National Security argument, which the judge did not seem overly impressed by today in court.

COOPER: And, Jeff, I mean, National Security has become the go to argument for pretty much everything the ballroom, even the Triumphal Arch, now has a National Security purpose, allegedly to store sniper ammunition and be a line of sight for snipers.

Judge Kelly says he'll make a ruling as soon as possible. Are you surprised he didn't rule from the bench?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Not really, because this is the same judge who did the Jim Acosta case, our former colleague who was thrown out of the White House because they didn't like his coverage back in the first term. And judge Kelly promptly returned him. But what he did was he heard argument and then a day or two later called everybody back into the courtroom and said, Jim Acosta has to have his press pass back.

You know, as for the National Security thing, I mean, it's understandable why the White House is trying this is because the courts are at their most deferential to the executive branch when it comes to National Security. The judges say, look, I'm don't have access to intelligence. This is something we give to the executive.

However, it can't be a pretext and it really looks like, especially when it comes to this press coverage issue, that the National Security argument is completely a pretext.

COOPER: Judge Gertner, what do you think the judge is weighing in his mind tonight as he tries to land on a decision?

Judge Gertner: Well, I think that that the Acosta decision, he put it on due process grounds. He said that essentially Acosta was not given any warning. He was simply kicked out. And there was no hearing. That's clearly happened now. That's -- in other words, it's the same thing. After the lawsuit was filed, Trump's lawyer said, well give you a statement of reasons that you can respond to by Friday.

So, it may well be that that will be the route to go. But let me say something about National Security. National Security with the press usually involves somebody took classified information or published classified sources. It is not about talking about National Security.

In other words, when people talk about the Iran war in pejorative terms, not based on classified information based on public services sources, that's what you guys do. National Security can't mean we can never talk about this topic, because it could hurt the U.S. That would basically eliminate the Vietnam War criticism, the Iraqi war criticism.

So, National Security is really, it seems to me, not just a pretext. Theres no implication here that anyone used classified sources. He just didn't like what they were talking about.

[20:10:11]

TOOBIN: And POLITICO revealed today that one of the one of the articles that the White House is complaining about. The source for that was J.D. Vance, the Vice-President of the United States. So, they're trying to kick POLITICO out of the White House for a story that they were the source was J.D. Vance. I mean, it's just it shows how preposterous this argument is.

COOPER: Elie, if the if the judge rules on due process, can then the White House appeal.

HONIG: For sure, they can appeal either way. And that's my point.

COOPER: And can they just go through some sort of due process and then do the ban again?

HONIG: So, there was a phrase coined in this case that I hadn't heard before, which is. And this is used by the Trump administration post deprivation process, the way due process is supposed to work is first you get your due process and then you get your consequence.

Here, they know they've got it flipped. They took away the press pass before they were due process. And so now, what the administration is saying, well, were going to now make up the rules. Now we're going to tell you the rules, and we're going to give you post deprivation after we've already taken away your pass. Now were going to give you this due process moving forward.

The judge actually came right out of the chute today at the hearing and was very focused on due process and almost seemed to have made up his mind that there has not been due process. And no, you cannot invent it after the fact.

But yes, whoever loses here and it could be, by the way, if there's a split opinion of sorts, for example, if the judge rules, well, the President can keep CNN out of certain areas of the White House, but not others. Either way, someone is going to appeal this. it's going to go to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals and perhaps the Supreme Court after that.

So, first step today, important step, but a lot left to. left to go.

COOPER: And Judge Gertner, a temporary restraining order, which what CNN and others are seeking is not appealable, is it?

GERTNER: That's right, it is not appealable. It would give -- it would be a ten-day reprieve from this order and then there would be a preliminary injunction. I mean, one, I don't think the judge would be doing this, but one possibility is that, you know, he sort of waits until Trump caves.

CNN and the other stations to answer these ridiculous accusations. And then Trump says, okay. And this way there isn't a, you know, a loud opinion about how this President doesn't know what the First Amendment is. But again, I think the National Security thing really is a trap because we talk about National Security issues all the time. The issue is the source of that information and the concern about classified information.

Jeff mentioned one political source. There was, again, the depleted weaponry in Iran came from something in the federal register. I mean, this whole thing is absurd.

COOPER: Jeff, I'm not sure how much of this is about the President trying to distract attention from high gas prices, high price of diesel from the way the wars is going, the way, you know, midterms seem to be shaping up. What message, which it may be some of that or all of that, what message do you think the President is trying to send by banning news outlets, right, when Chinas leader is visiting here?

TOOBIN: I mean, I think he hates the press and a lot, he hates certain parts of the press, CNN included. But so do a lot of his supporters and I think among his base, if he's trying to rally them, you know, taking on CNN, taking on MS NOW, taking on POLITICO is probably a benefit.

But you know, it is worth remembering the substance here. I mean, the President has been attacking the First Amendment over and over again. In a completely different case decided today, the President had sued the Des Moines register, a completely absurd lawsuit based on the fact that he didn't like a poll that they published. And today, that case was dismissed.

I mean, he loses these cases over and over again, these libel cases, these First Amendment cases. But, you know, given his platform, given the fact that he's President of the United States, the attacks on the press have a real resonance and consequence.

COOPER: Yes, Jeff Toobin, Judge Nancy Gertner, thank you Elie Honig as well.

Coming up, we're going to be watching any late developments on this, including a ruling throughout this hour. If one comes through, we'll let you know.

Coming up next, though, more on what is being overshadowed by all this, what Xi Jinping hopes to get from the President and the tribute he's already gotten from President Trump just for showing up.

Also, new details, a new video and a pair of violent ICE encounters in two states, one of them leaving a U.S. Citizen seriously injured. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:50]

COOPER: The White House press pool was not on hand for what the President intended to be a photo opportunity for the ages. Chinese leader Xi Jinping's arrival this afternoon at Joint Base Andrews, where he was met by Mr. Trump and given a red-carpet welcome with an actual red carpet and a military flyover.

Now, presidents, as a rule, do not do airport pickups. Dignitaries traditionally come to them at the White House. But this President is pulling out all the stops for the two-day state visit.

Joining us now is Ambassador Wendy Sherman, former deputy secretary of state and currently a senior fellow at Harvard's Belfer Center.

So, Ambassador Sherman, how unusual is it for President to go to Joint Base Andrews to meet a foreign leader as he gets off his flight?

WENDY SHERMAN, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: You know, Anderson, I looked this up to remind myself and actually President Obama and President Bush went out for Popes, Pope Francis and Pope Benedict.

President Kennedy went to meet Prime Minister Macmillan of Britain and Eisenhower for Khrushchev, that's it, four times. And largely for Popes, not for leaders. And the real irony here, of course, is the President rolled out the red carpet for Putin has now rolled out the red carpet for Xi. Xi is going to control the media back in China.

The President is tremendously envious of that. I am sure. And as your panel just discussed, here we are with the President challenging the First Amendment, so core to our democracy and meeting with a leader who doesn't believe in a First Amendment whatsoever, and giving him a red carpet and very rare arrival at Andrews.

[20:20:32]

COOPER: The U.S. and China have obviously had many points of friction where diplomacy or even just an easing of tensions could benefit both countries artificial intelligence. The U.S. conflict in Iran, the future of Taiwan. Do you think any progress is going to be made on anything of substance during this visit? Obviously, there's been a lot of focus on A.I. in just the last two weeks.

SHERMAN: I think it would be fantastic, but unexpected, and I don't expect it if President Trump and President Xi decided here's how they could each get a Nobel Peace Prize by coming together on artificial intelligence and really working together to create guardrails.

It's actually in Xi's interest to do so because he wants to build, particularly as he approaches a year from now, when the next five-year plan for the Chinese Communist Party is put in place. So, stability is critical to him, and he doesn't want artificial intelligence to take over his desire to not only control China, but ultimately to control the world and replace the United States as the greatest power on earth.

So, I don't think that will happen. Unfortunately, I think we might get a hotline, but that might be a hotline between Treasury Secretary Bessent and Vice Premier Li Fong and whether it will get picked up or not, I have no idea. But crisis communications has long been something that we all have wanted with China. We have had that in the past and still due to some extent with Russia, but not with China.

I expect that the Busan Trade Agreement will probably be extended. For how long? I'm not sure but that will give us access to critical minerals. I hope the President does not go further on our position vis a vis Taiwan. I hope the Taiwan arms sale goes forward shortly after this visit.

But quite frankly, Anderson, this visit is more about optics than it is about substance. Stability is important, and it's good for our leaders to meet. But sadly, I don't think much real work is going to get done here.

It's interesting, though, that you think they could get a Nobel Peace Prize if they actually did make some sort of agreement on A.I.

SHERMAN: Well, I think if they really led the world to figure out how to have guardrails around this technology and Ambassador Susan Rice recently did a "New York Times" piece which laid out several steps that could be taken all very challenging, all very difficult, but indeed would ensure that my child and my grandchildren had a future.

I think when you think about the future, when you think about your sons and whether in fact they're going to have a future, you want to make sure A.I. is under control. And these are the two leaders who have the greatest interest in making that happen. I don't see either of them rising to the occasion.

China thinks it can control this process, knows the U.S. is probably ahead at this point, is trying to steal our secrets, as they always have done. But this would be groundbreaking. This would be a moonshot that would save the planet.

COOPER: Ambassador Wendy Sherman, appreciate your time, thank you.

Coming up, just months after unknown people were caught on tape entering the New York City sewer in the dead of night, which was caught on this video here. New concerns after a similar sighting near the Manhattan Hotel, the Israeli prime minister. John Miller, has been talking to his sources about that. We'll talk to him.

Plus, new video of the high-speed pursuit that led to the recent shooting of a Venezuelan national by an ICE officer in Austin, Texas, as a confrontation in another city is also making headlines. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:28:37]

COOPER: Law enforcement officials have told CNN that the New York City Police Department and U.S. Secret Service are investigating the sighting of three individuals seen crawling out of a sewer near the hotel, where Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will be staying for the U.N. General Assembly.

Prime Minister Netanyahu is set to speak tomorrow, and according to law enforcement officials, it's considered among the highest threat protectees being guarded by the Secret Service.

Now, we should note this is not the first time there have been reported sightings of people entering or exiting sewers in the New York City area. This video that you're looking at is from May 5th, showing three men in protective gear opening a manhole cover in Astoria, Queens, entering the sewer and even pulling the cover closed behind them.

Joining me now is CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller.

So given this latest thing was at 4:30 in the morning outside the hotel, it's always been used by the prime minister. Is there something more to this? Does this link to these other sightings?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, Anderson, authorities are concerned with two distinct possibilities. One is that ISIS terrorists are Iranian agents decided to go underground and plant some kind of device or a scheme, some kind of attack, possibly against a dignitary such as the prime minister.

The other is, according to The New York City Police Department, there's been a spate of these incidents where after storms, people have gone down there looking for things that wash down the sewer, valuable scrap metals, copper piping and so on.

[20:30:10]

But given the location, given that it was 4:30 in the morning, given that hours before and a few blocks away, five men were observed going down into an emergency entrance to the subway that could have gotten them to this location, they pulled out all the stops, license plate readers, video canvases, investigators, running plates, Secret Service, NYPD, Intelligence Bureau, to try and identify these people, but they also went down there and they found nothing suspicious or untoward.

So I think they're probably leaning the other way.

COOPER: So there was -- these people had two vehicles. Were the vehicles seen waiting for them? And I assume they would be able to maybe identify license plates and things like that. You mentioned the license plate reader. How organized does this seem to be?

MILLER: Well, it seems to be pretty organized. Having the people come out in a group, get into two vehicles and flee separately is an indicator that this wasn't their first rodeo. But, you know, talking to the people looking into this and basically with my own background in the counterterrorism world, here's what I'm -- here's what I'm hanging my hat on.

If these were true professional agents from a hostile foreign power, if they went in in one location and then came out when their work was done right there in front of the target, no pro would do that. They would have either exited from a third location that nobody knew about or at least gone out the way they came. Exiting in full view of people, yes, even at 4:30 in the morning at the target location would have been too amateur a move.

But, you know, they had to go through the motions given what's going on in New York right now.

COOPER: The U.N. General Assembly, which is happening here in New York City, it's got this other interesting challenge for law enforcement. The U.S. Secret Service is providing security for Iran's president. How does that work with the two countries engaged in ongoing conflict?

MILLER: Well, you know, we've been through this before on multiple levels, including even with the Pope coming on different U.N. General Assemblies. But this year, you've got 130 world leaders, presidents, foreign ministers. You've got six highs. Those are high-threat individuals. Obviously, the Israeli prime minister would be one. The Iranian prime minister would be another.

But this is the thing. This is the first time in history, Anderson, that the head of state of a country at which we are at war with has come to the United States of America while at war with us and addressed the United Nations.

Now, you have to think that the Iranian president could have been one of those people that at one point or another was on a target list for us to take him out in Iran with a missile or some other weapon. But while he's in New York, the United States Secret Service, the NYPD Intelligence Division and Highway Patrol, it's their job to make sure no harm comes to him.

COOPER: It's fascinating. John Miller, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up next, new video of the moments leading up to the ICE shooting of that Venezuela DoorDash driver in Austin and another encounter outside Chicago that left a U.S. citizen seriously injured.

Also later tonight, why Dolly Parton's nephew, who announced her passing to the world, is now under a restraining order from her own estate. We'll explain that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:36:31]

COOPER: With President Trump's approval rating hitting a new low, Democrats are eyeing a new potential seat in their quest to regain control of the Senate. We're talking about Kansas where Adam Hamilton is trying to defeat Republican Senator, Roger Marshall. It would mark the first time in nearly a century that Kansas has sent a Democrat to the Senate.

Jeff Zeleny has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAM HAMILTON, (D) KANSAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm an alternative for you and I'm going to fight for you and I'm going to fight for our state.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Adam Hamilton is asking Kansas voters to take a leap of faith and do something that hasn't been done in 94 years, elect a Democrat to the U.S. Senate.

HAMILTON: This is not a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a human decency thing.

ZELENY (voice-over): Yet six weeks before the midterm elections, it is a Republican and Democrat thing as his race to defeat GOP Senator, Roger Marshall is a new wild card in the fight for the Senate majority.

HAMILTON: It's great to have a chance to preach today.

ZELENY (voice-over): Hamilton is the founder of the nation's largest United Methodist Church here in the Kansas City suburbs. He's the fifth generation Kansan whose first bid for elected office has drawn attacks from the White House --

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He's a radical left lunatic.

ZELENY (voice-over): -- to the campaign trail.

J.D. VANCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are united in keeping you as far away from the halls of Congress as possible.

ZELENY: What did you think?

HAMILTON: My first thought was, wow, they must be really afraid. They sent the second most powerful man in the country to Olathe, Kansas to attack me.

ZELENY (voice-over): But to win, Hamilton knows he must gain the trust of some Republicans, including skeptical ones. HAMILTON: For many Republicans who have voted Republican their whole life, the thought of voting for a Democrat, there are some fears they have to go along with that. There are some, just the idea of, can I really vote for a Democrat?

ZELENY (voice-over): At a campaign stop, we met several Republicans.

DENNIS TAYLOR, KANSAS REPUBLICAN VOTER: He's looking for common sense solutions, looking to bring people together, he's not looking to demonize people.

ZELENY (voice-over): Some introduced themselves to Hamilton.

RON RENZ, KANSAS REPUBLICAN VOTER: I love your message.

ZELENY (voice-over): And unleashed their frustrations.

RENZ: What our current administration has done is strengthen the rest of the world.

ZELENY: What's a Republican doing at a Democratic campaign event?

RENZ: I am not a Trump supporter.

ZELENY (voice-over): The president carried Kansas by 16 points in 2024, but warning signs are on the horizon.

JIM HOWELL, (R) SEDGWICK COUNTY COMMISSIONER: Even in Kansas, some people are not really super big fans of Donald Trump right now.

ZELENY (voice-over): Jim Howell is a Republican on the Sedgwick County Commission in Wichita, proudly known as the air capital of the world. It's the U.S. Headquarters of Bombardier, the Canadian jet maker Trump threatened to ban sales from as part of an escalating trade war, saying their products aren't good enough.

[20:40:00]

HOWELL: These are American jobs right here in Wichita, Kansas. To tear down an industry that seems to be unqualified to me is it's kind of a reckless comment.

ZELENY (voice-over): He fears Trump standing has damaged all Republicans on the ballot, including him.

HOWELL: If the president would be so kind as to, you know, don't give us anything to cringe over today or this week or this month, that would be a step in the right direction.

ZELENY (voice-over): As Republicans intensify their ad campaign against Hamilton, his longtime friend and church member, Steve Eginoire, says the attacks just aren't true.

STEVE EGINOIRE, HAMILTON FRIEND AND SUPPORTER: He has about as much in common with the far left as he does the far right. He is squarely in the middle. ZELENY (voice-over): Yet he conceded some fellow Republicans are weary of how Kansas fits into the full Senate picture.

EGINOIRE: While they would love to see Adam as the Senator, they're equally concerned if Kansas becomes a swing state in the election, they'd rather have John Thune as the Leader of the Senate rather than Chuck Schumer which, by the way, so would I. But I'd rather have Adam Hamilton as my Senator.

ZELENY (voice-over): Hamilton says he'll be an independent-minded Senator and hopes people are ready to move beyond tribal politics.

HAMILTON: So I think people are yearning for decency. And I think they recognize the corruption that's happening in Washington, D.C., the decisions that are made up there that are self-serving for people who are in politics. They'd like us to be a shining city on a hill.

ZELENY (voice-over): And Republicans are sufficiently concerned about this race in Kansas. It's not one that they expected to be on the battleground map. Democrats say if the Kansas contest is competitive, other races across the Midwest also are a sign of political headwinds for the Republicans and President Trump.

Anderson?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. There are new details tonight on two shootings involving ICE agents, first in Austin, Texas, where there's new surveillance video leading up to Sunday's shooting of a Venezuelan DoorDash driver. You see his car and then SUVs with flashing lights and sirens in an apparent pursuit before he's shot by an ICE agent.

DHS has said the man was the subject of a targeted vehicle stop and, quote, "had a final order of removal." His attorney says he's in a lot of pain with a bullet still lodged in his back.

In the Chicago suburb of Evanston, there is growing outrage after ICE agents mistakenly targeted a U.S. citizen, sending him to the hospital. This happened on Sunday. Video obtained by CNN, the man can be seen on the ground behind an SUV. He can be heard repeatedly telling the agents this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am a [expletive] U.S. citizen. (Inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Moments after releasing the man, the two agents left the scene. CNN's Whitney Wild joins us with more on this incident. So what more do we know about the incident involving ICE in Illinois?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, some of the information, Anderson, is coming from witnesses who were on the ground, as well as the Evanston Police Department. But here's what we know, as well as the Department of Homeland Security. Evanston Police responded to this incident just before 10 o'clock on Sunday.

And when they got there, they found this man on the ground. He was being attended to by witnesses who called an ambulance because the man on the ground reported that he had injuries to his head, neck and teeth. Witnesses say that this man was very shaken up after this.

One witness told a CNN affiliate based in Chicago that he saw federal agents actually striking this man in the face. Evanston Police were able to contact the federal agents who were on the ground. They confronted them basically on the scene. And Evanston Police say the federal agents told them they were conducting a fugitive operation and they tried to contact this man.

They thought he resembled their target. He did not give identification. He was not cooperative. It is not clear what their version of the actual event that caused an injury was. But the Evanston police officer who was interacting with these agents did observe some blood on one of the agent's hands.

And then the agent said, in effect, once they ID'd him and figured out he wasn't their target and that he was a U.S. citizen, they left, Anderson.

COOPER: And what has DHS said about it? What happened?

WILD: Well, the DHS narrative is very similar to what the agent on the ground told Evanston Police. DHS says that during a targeted enforcement operation, ICE encountered a man that, again, resembled their target. And when this man did not provide identification, he was not cooperative. And in a statement, DHS said that the individual was given lawful orders but was not cooperative and refused commands. And then ICE officers later relied on their training and left the scene without further incident.

Video shows, and DHS also said, that the man refused assistance from ICE after this happened. In the video, you actually see him roll away from the ICE officers and say, don't touch me. But DHS is not really responding to any questions about how that man was actually injured, why such level of force was necessary. Their statement basically skips over all of those key details, Anderson.

[20:45:00]

COOPER: Yeah. It's interesting, you see the ICE agent there kind of shaking his fist, shaking his hand. I don't know if he's the one who had blood on it. Whitney Weil, thanks so much.

Joining us now as former ICE Acting Director, John Sandweg. So John, two different incidents here. I want to start with what happened in Illinois. What do you make of that situation with ICE agents and the American citizen?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ICE ACTING DIRECTOR: You know, Anderson, difficult to tell. I'd like to know, first of all, who was the individual they were targeting, right? Who was the guy they mistook here? Is this someone with a violent criminal history? What -- why did we have such an aggressive response from the officers?

But you know, Anderson, while it's difficult to know with just the partial views that we have in this particular incident, and again it is another troubling circumstance where there's real questions about the use of force, right? And this is part of what we've seen across the board where we've seen this erosion of accountability, where there's a rush to defend these agents, and again, case after case after case where we've seen a very aggressive tone taken by the officers.

What doesn't always appear justified and again, not sure, you know, why we're seeing this erosion -- or say (inaudible) back up -- I'd say this is -- a variety of factors contributing to this erosion of culture where we're seeing these incidents keep reoccurring.

COOPER: Have they, to your knowledge, made any advancements or improvements in training or -- because they -- I mean, there was a lot of reporting back, you know, in the height of the Minnesota time that they were, you know, they had shortened the training and obviously, were looking for new recruits. Is that -- are they still hiring or they have -- they still have the kind of this shorter training period?

SANDWEG: Yeah, Anderson, look the training period is certainly a big part of the problem. We've seen the curtailed training in this rush to get all these new officers that were funded by the Big Beautiful Bill out on the street. I would tell you, now is especially when we're starting to see really more and more of those officers deployed and I know we're going to talk about Austin and I think that was what it appears as some of the reporting suggests that was one of those new officers.

But I think, Anderson, we can't lose sight of a really important fact, which is that all of these aggressive tactics when we push these ICE agents out in the streets in this desperate effort to meet these quotas is putting them out of position with regard to the tactics they've historically done. And you know, I've talked about this.

Historically, ICE makes hundreds of thousands of arrests but of individuals who are already in custody. So they're picking up people at prisons and jails. They're picking up people at Border Patrol stations at the borders. What they don't do are these kind of street interactions, whether it's these vehicular stops or these kind of stopping people as they're walking down the street and ID'ing them. It's just not been a core part of ICE's mission.

And so even with the officers who have a lot of experience, it's just they don't have experience engaging in these tactics But again, we put this quotas on them, 50,000. We push it -- that just pushes them out in the street and forces them to do things that they're not trained to do.

COOPER: And what do you make the Austin incident?

SANDWEG: Anderson, I don't know how many more times we need to see a vehicular traffic stop gone awry to know that this is not a tactic that should be used except in those circumstances where we have clear evidence that the driver poses an active threat to public safety. This is over 20 times that when individuals have been shot since 2025, following a vehicular traffic stop.

As I mentioned earlier, just walking down the street, interactions with those individuals is something ICE ERO agents don't typically do. This is definitely not something they've done. And I think, look, Secretary Mullin recognized that traffic stops are a problem. He ordered up moratorium and a pause put on them. Unfortunately, he was overruled by the president.

But I don't know how many more times we need to see a traffic stop to understand that ICE officers engaging in these stops is a danger to themselves. It puts them at risk. It certainly puts the driver at risk and it puts the public at larger at risk.

COOPER: And just briefly, the man is still in custody with a bullet in his back. I know in some hospitals, they don't immediately take out a bullet. Sometimes it makes more medical sense to keep it in. Is this standard protocol?

SANDWEG: Anderson, I would hope -- listen, this administration is relying on detention, right? Their position is there's no more discretion, every single person they apprehend is detained, right? There are ankle bracelets that have proven incredibly effective at ensuring people's appearance in court or when it's time for them to actually be deported to ensuring that the agents can take them into custody and return them to their home country.

I don't know why, you know why -- I would just say this. I would like to see some discretion here with a gentleman with a bullet in his back. I don't see why we would detain him when he's clearly in need of additional medical attention, even if it's not -- even if he's not in critical condition any longer, it doesn't make any sense to me to continue the detention.

COOPER: John Sandweg, appreciate your time. Thank you.

Coming up, the fight that seems to be unfolding over Dolly Parton's estate, the legendary country music singer, songwriter's longtime manager is accusing her nephew, who was also ahead of her security, with threatening to commit violence and destroy his late aunt's business empire. We have new details on a restraining order against him, plus my conversation with one of Dolly Parton's longtime friends, country legend, Willie Nelson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIE NELSON, OUTLAW COUNTRY LEGEND: She was great, I loved her.

[20:50:00]

I did an interview with her shortly before that and you know, she seemed fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A Tennessee judge has granted Dolly Parton's Estate a temporary restraining order against the late singer's nephew and his security company. That's after Parton's long-time manager accused the nephew, Bryan Seaver, of threatening to commit violence and destroy Parton's legacy and business empire.

Seaver, whom she picked to record this video announcing her death last month, led her security detail. Court documents show he was fired last week after allegedly sending a series of text messages.

[20:55:00]

In one of them, he allegedly said, "I'm going to set up a podcast dedicated to ruining Dolly's brand partnerships." Adding, "It's going to be great or effing pay me."

The documents also say that Seaver called himself an international arms dealer and terrified employees and associates. According to report, Seaver has denied threatening anyone and calls the restraining order, quote, "publicity stunt." A court hearing is scheduled for October 7th.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Dolly Parton's friend, Music Legend Willie Nelson, yesterday on his tour bus. He's getting ready to play Saturday at the 41st Farm Aid music festival, which he started back in 1985 to support family farms facing bankruptcy. It'll air live on CNN from 7 to 11 p.m. Eastern on Saturday night.

Joining Willie is going to be Neil Young, John Mellencamp, Dave Matthews and a lot of other great artists. Willie's new book, "The Last Leaf" is out now and it's a memoir about music and as he says a love story about his wife, Annie. Here's our conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You started this in 1985 with Farm Aid. Did you think it would go this long?

NELSON: No. No, I thought people would realize how important it is to take care of the farmers? And obviously, they didn't.

COOPER: What brings you back every year to do it?

NELSON: Well, I was -- I worked on farms. I know the problems, picked cotton grow (ph) corn, all that stuff.

COOPER: Were you a good farmer?

NELSON: No.

(LAUGH)

NELSON: I Wanted to go play music, drink a beer. (LAUGH)

COOPER: It must be incredible to feel that energy from the crowd.

NELSON: Yes.

COOPER: And to look out and see --

NELSON: Yes.

COOPER: -- all different ages out there singing and dancing.

NELSON: Yeah, music brings people together and it doesn't matter whether you're a Democrat, Republican and all that. It doesn't matter. They come out to clap their heads and sing and rub elbows with whoever and go home feeling better. It's in that way ever since I can remember.

COOPER: You came down with COVID.

NELSON: Oh God, yeah, it was terrible. I wanted to punch out. I wanted to go and he wouldn't let me, you know.

COOPER: You said let me go.

NELSON: Yeah. She said if you die, I'll kill you.

(LAUGH)

COOPER: And it worked.

NELSON: It worked. Yeah.

COOPER: Did you know how sick you were?

NELSON: Yes. Yes, I could tell that I was dying and I wanted to die. It was the worst feeling I've ever had.

COOPER: I'm wondering how you think about grief because you write about it a lot.

NELSON: Well, it's part of life, you know, it's -- we all go through it. We all -- if we're going to live, we're going to die. You got to accept it.

COOPER: You wrote it in a song, actually, it's not something you get over, but it's something you get through.

NELSON: You get through, yeah.

COOPER: Dolly Parton just passed. You've had a long history with her. What was she like?

NELSON: Oh, she was great I loved her, all the way back to the Porter & Dolly show, you know Porter Wagner and Dolly Parton.

COOPER: That's when she first started.

NELSON: Yeah, and I was a big fan of that show.

COOPER: Did you know she was ill?

NELSON: I had no idea. I did an interview with her shortly before that and you know, she seemed fine.

COOPER: She said a couple things about you. She said do you think we'd work great and we do sound good. It's just that trying to catch him or trying to figure out where in the song he's trying to go is a big job.

(LAUGH)

COOPER: What does that mean?

NELSON: My phrasing is a little crazy, you know. I mean, I don't do it the same way every time, so that's difficult.

COOPER: It's getting -- it must be getting tough to write new ideas, you know? You've written a lot.

(LAUGH)

NELSON: Yeah, I'll get an idea and I will start to write it and I'll say, wait, I've already wrote that.

(LAUGH)

COOPER: It's a good problem to have.

NELSON: It is a nice problem, yeah.

COOPER: Yeah. You end your book, you write about your own death and what you believe happens when you die. You say thanks for letting me go on this ride. Thanks for letting me take this trip. I don't know when the trip is going to end but that doesn't matter because I do believe that when it does end, another trip will begin and that trip and the one that follows will go into that. Good night forever in a day. So there is no end there just is.

NELSON: Yeah.

COOPER: That sounds pretty good. That's how you imagine it, that there is no end?

NELSON: No, you keep coming back and I believe in reincarnation. We leave, we'll be right back, don't go nowhere.

COOPER: You believe that energy continues?

NELSON: Yeah.

COOPER: What do you want to be reincarnated as?

(LAUGH)

NELSON: A rodeo cowboy.

COOPER: OK, that's good.

NELSON: Yeah.

COOPER: I'd like that too.

NELSON: Yeah.

COOPER: How have you been able to maintain?

NELSON: I'll tell people I'm chasing 94 and dragging 93.

(LAUGH)

COOPER: Chasing 94 and dragging 93, OK. I'm not even sure I know what it means, but I like the sound of it.

(LAUGH)

COOPER: Willie Nelson, thank you so much.

NELSON: You bet (ph).

COOPER: It's an honor.

NELSON: Thank you, sir.

COOPER: Yeah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[21:00:00]

COOPER: What a treat to meet him and his amazing wife, Annie. You can see the one and only Willie Nelson perform at this year's Farm Aid music festival hosted by Laura Coates from this Saturday at 7 p.m. Eastern on CNN and streaming live with an All Access subscription.

You can also stream live this show and watch any CNN program on demand, anytime, on any screen or mobile device with that All Access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen or go to cnn.com/watch to learn more.

That's it for us. "The Source with Kaitlan Collins" starts now.