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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

President Does 180 Degrees Over Taxpayer-Funded Ads; Trump Stumps At Nebraska Rally In Red-State Blitz; Cornell Students Protest University's Handling For Gang Rape Allegations; Jane Doe Atty. "Confident" Cornell Investigators Missed Evidence; Attorney For Accused Cornell Student Calls For AG James To Step Aside As Special Prosecutor; Chicago Woman Shot Five Times By Border Patrol Agent Sues Federal Government, Talks To CNN About Lawsuit; U.S. Removes All Air Force Bombers From U.K. Base; New Book Details Biden Administration's Effort To Secure Release Of Oct. 7 Hostages & Avert Total War. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 05, 2026 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They are very young, in early 20's. They have a very bright future. But Ukraine says thousands more may soon be headed to battle in the name of their leader.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Incredible reporting and thanks so much to all of you for joining us. AC360 begins now.

[20:00:28]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: The last time a president campaigned in Grand Island, Nebraska was George W. Bush in 2006. His party went on to lose 31 House seats and six Senate seats. President Trump is there tonight.

John Berman here in for Anderson.

The President also just did a 180 on those taxpayer-funded campaign ads dressed up as so-called public service announcements. But we begin with the President in Nebraska because where he is campaigning says a lot about how he sees his party's chances next month. Nebraska is a state he won by 20 points two years ago.

Since Thursday, he has been to nothing, but red states. He offered this explanation for it today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have massive crowds. We have another sold out crowd today. We went to Ohio, we went to Texas, we went to Oklahoma.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: And Alabama, all red states, but crowds or no crowds, these

are places he simply would not be going if the midterm outlook for the Republicans were not, as one Republican member of Congress recently told CNN, a five-alarm fire. It is reflected in the polling.

These are red state Senate races you are looking at without a single Republican candidate, clearly leading. And several, most notably in deep red Texas clearly trailing. What is not especially clear is how a President who is deeply unpopular can help these candidates by tying their fate so closely to his.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Just pretend that I'm running. Because if we do and if you draw the people, you're going to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, if that second part, boosting turnout among his diehard supporters is the aim, then the President is going to great lengths for it. He's even calling on them to do what he has been telling them falsely for years is cheating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If your state has early voting, do not wait. Go out and vote. Vote early, vote by mail or vote in person on election day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Vote by mail, he is now saying, which he himself did in the Florida primary this year, because, in his words, "I'm President of the United States," but mostly when he is not doing it himself or telling his supporters to do it. He is railing against it, including no kidding, today, just two days after pushing for it, in that video you just saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What we're concerned about is there seems to be, not seems to be, there is a lot of cheating in vote by mail, a lot of cheating all over.

Mail-in ballots are inherently corrupt.

It gives people more time to vote illegally, let's say.

Mail-in ballots are a big fraud.

The cheating on mail-in voting is legendary.

Mail-in voting means mail-in cheating.

I call it mail-in cheating.

No more crooked mail-in ballots. Anytime you have mail-in voting, you have corrupt elections.

You can never have a real democracy with mail-in ballots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's the President who has recently, as Saturday, was telling Republicans to vote by mail, talking about the evils of voting by mail. So, he's not exactly consistent on the subject.

He is, however, fairly consistent when it comes to reporters, mostly women asking him tough questions. In this case. CNN's Kristen Holmes on the South Lawn today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Your approval ratings with Latino voters has dropped down to 27 percent. What's your message to them?

TRUMP: I know you're fake news, your CNN, you're fake news.

HOLMES: What's your message to Latino voters?

TRUMP: My poll numbers are great and all you have to do is look at the crowds were drawing. And every time I leave, that candidate will be losing. And by the time I leave, they're winning.

Now, CNN poll numbers are fake and your whole outfit is fake and so are you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That is the leader of the free world. And so is this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Just get out and vote. If you do that, we're going to win or were going to win big. And we're going to shove it up their ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, he said that on Saturday in Ohio. But if you thought that was the last word, he went further today, threatening to arrest anyone who reported correctly as it happened that not every seat was filled at that event.

Quoting him now, "The Ohio Arena was already full to the brim, and yet these people were still trying to get in. 'The New York Times' said there were empty seats, when in fact there were none, and thousands of people had to be turned away. 'The New York Times' and many other artificial media outlets should be arrested for their dishonesty and disservice to our country."

Now, in the very next post, he said his rallies are, "hotter than ever" and cited tonight's event in Nebraska as an example in terms of hotter, hotter, hotter than ever. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is with us now.

Jeff, it's great to see you. You've covered Nebraska politics, Jeff, for years. How unusual is it to see a sitting Republican President there before the midterms?

[20:05:15]

JEFF ZELENY, CNN, CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: John, it is unusual. There's no doubt about it and it speaks to one thing. Republicans have no room for error in their fight to maintain their narrow majorities in the U.S. Senate. And Senator Pete Ricketts, a Republican here, is in the fight of his life. There is no doubt about it.

And the President just basically conceded to that just a few minutes ago, urging his supporters to also support Pete Ricketts. He's a former governor here. He's a Republican Senator, but he's locked in a pretty complicated fight with an Independent, Dan Osborne. And it has worried many Republicans here that I have spoken to.

So, that is why President Trump is here. But, John, it's also important to point out where he is not. Yes, he's seeking safe harbor from some of his most friendliest faces here.

I mean, look behind me, the President still speaking. This crowd loves President Trump. Theres no doubt about it.

More importantly, though, Republicans are concerned about the legions of people who are not at a Trump rally. These are about 5,000 people or so have waited all day for this. The question, though, are the people who are the truck drivers, the farmers, the others who are deeply impacted by his policies? Will they choose to just not vote at all in November?

There are two other highly competitive House races right here in Nebraska that could help tip the balance of power in the U.S. House. The President has not mentioned them. He did not visit them. So, he is here in one of the deepest, reddest parts of Nebraska, trying to urge his supporters to one more time vote for him.

And you did say, John, the last time a sitting President visited Grand Island here, it was George W. Bush. It was in 2006, exactly 20 years ago. He went on to get a thumping, as he described it in the midterm elections. We do not know how the next month is going to fold out.

One thing we do know, just a few moments ago, the President also adding to that mixed messaging on mail-in voting. He urged all Republicans here to cast their ballots by mail. In fact, there have been giant neon signs urging them to do so. So, clearly, he wants them to do it, and others not -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Jeff Zeleny, no one knows Nebraska politics like you do. It's great to have you there for us tonight, I appreciate it.

Perspective now from CNN senior political commentator, Ana Navarro republican pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson, former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod, and former white house spokesman for the George W. Bush administration, Pete Seat.

David, what are voters supposed to make in the mixed messaging, right? Voting by mail is cheating. Voting by mail is the worst. Go vote by mail as soon as you can.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, first of all, I don't know how closely voters are watching that. I know they're watching the gas tank, their gas meter when they're filling up their cars. They're watching their cash registers. They're looking at their mortgages and that's the problem.

But yes, this is obviously -- the people who have heartburn, I'm sure are his campaign people. I did campaigns for 25 years. I would be -- if I had any hair, I'd be tearing it out by now because, you know, they need their people to vote by mail.

And Republicans used to vote by mail in large numbers and he is making their already difficult job more difficult.

BERMAN: So, Ana, the map, right? Nebraska, Alabama, Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma. If the map could talk, what story would it be telling right now?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it would be telling the story that the congressman said to you. It's a five-alarm fire for Republicans. I am living it in my own district. Florida 27 in South Florida, where the congresswoman, the Republican congresswoman, Maria Elvira Salazar, who won two years ago by 20 points, just put out an ad distancing herself, looking at the camera and telling Donald Trump, Mr. President, Latino voters feel betrayed.

And the numbers that David was just talking about regarding mail-in ballots, look, when Jeb Bush was governor, my husband was chair of the Republican Party of Florida. They invested so much in building the party and in building an absentee-ballot operation.

Donald Trump has been bashing absentee balloting for years. He has devastated all of those efforts. Today, as we speak in Florida, Democrats have turned in 65,000 absentee ballots. Republicans have turned in 50,000. That would have never happened ten years ago, 15 years ago.

Donald Trump owns the fact that Republicans have listened to him and do not believe in absentee balloting anymore. And Democrats do not listen to him and are voting and are voting in full force.

BERMAN: So, Kristen, 2026, is there an election that this sort of smells a little bit like? And why might it make sense for President Trump to have this deep red strategy?

[20:10:07]

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, you know, you mentioned the thumping in the earlier segment. This is 100 percent something that you would expect to see in a midterm election. The party that's in power is always facing a pretty tough challenge when their party is up for re-election. And this is a map where there are lots of people in red states who are running in a very tough environment.

Playing defense is very normal and in some ways, it's remarkable that Donald Trump's political team has gotten him to embrace a defensive strategy. Donald Trump often likes to talk about wanting to go on offense, wanting to take the fight to the blue areas.

The fact that he is spending time in red states shows that he is listening to people who are getting good, reality-based advice about the challenges that Republicans are facing in this midterm.

BERMAN: Kristen, very quickly, what would happen if he did campaign in more purple states?

ANDERSON: I mean, there are plenty of purple states, places, I almost said Maine. Maine may not be one where Susan Collins wants him to come, but a state like Michigan, for instance, is a state that he won. It is a purple state, but it's one where Mike Rogers may want to get, you know, that Trump coalition to turn out.

There are upsides and downsides, of course, with a very polarizing figure like Trump, whose job approval is not great, but also these wave elections and midterms are where weird things happen, like a Democrat winning statewide in Missouri or Montana or Republican winning statewide in Illinois or Massachusetts.

So, you have to play defense in this kind of election environment.

BERMAN: Pete, we've talked a lot about the where, but what about the what he is saying right now? Can you even identify what the clear message is at this point, when the voters are so clearly saying they want to hear about affordability and the economy and prices?

ANDERSON: Well, it sounds to me like his message is --

BERMAN: I'm sorry, that was to Pete, who I think just blinked out.

AXELROD: Oh, I'm sorry.

BERMAN: Pete, are you still there? We lost Pete for a second. David, I'll give you this one quickly. Like, what do you think of the messaging?

AXELROD: Well, I think it's a big problem. And that's the danger you always have when you send Donald Trump out on this route. Because he does two hours of stand up and he may say some of the things that are on his prompter, and then he'll say other things that just complicate their situation.

So, it's a very, very mixed blessing to have him out there. And I think, he may be in these districts to spur turnout. That would make sense. He also may be in these districts because he can't believe he's not an asset. And they're sending to places where he can do the least damage. BERMAN: David, we'll never know if that's what Pete Seat would have said, but maybe we'll find out after the break. Everyone, stick around.

Next, the President reverses course on those taxpayer-funded T.V. spots that he calls patriotic ads and others call campaign ads paid for by you and me.

And later, a day of protest at Cornell University and new developments in the alleged gang rape case at the center of the outrage.

And later, a Russian lab worker's death in the fear that it unleashed one of humankind's worst infectious diseases, the plague.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:17:27]

BERMAN: The President tonight in Nebraska. On his way there, a big reversal on these taxpayer-funded videos that looked for all the world like campaign ads, but which the White House calls public service announcements. To be clear, he is still running them. But he says because the radical left is upset, "... although nothing will make them happy. I have decided to do the patriotic ads, among others, and pay for them myself and with money I raised for MAGA Inc."

This comes shortly after Vice President Vance defended the ads and the taxpayer funding of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE (R), VICE-PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, look, if you look historically, you know, go back to the Obama administration with the Affordable Care Act, you have the people's government using tax dollars to advertise about what the government is doing. It's part of actually, I think, living in a constitutional republic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, the panel is back with us, including Pete Seat here. Pete, it is great to see you and get a chance to hear from you. So, David no longer has to speak for you.

Look, J.D. Vance, the Vice President, I know you also have compared this to some of the Obamacare ads. I think a lot of other people who look at this and say, frankly, this is nothing like them. But why do you think the President reversed himself after the Vice President went out on a limb for him today?

PETE SEAT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think he reversed himself because he should have done this from the very beginning. There was no reason for taxpayer funds to be used for these ads. And I'm glad that MAGA Inc. is now going to pay for them. There is a political largesse there that he can dip into for these ads. I do think this Obamacare ad, though, is an important point to make. Fine, Barack Obama himself was not in those ads, but the timing was a little suspect. It was very close to the election. I understand that on November 1st of 2016, that is when open enrollment began for the Affordable Care Act that year. So, they started to run these ads, but it did coincide with a National Presidential Election.

So, the administration has a point to make. We can nuance this to death all day long and say, well, it's not the same, it's not the same, it's not the same. But there are necessary needs for political service announcements.

I don't think what the Trump administration has been doing is a public service announcement, especially when it's just President Trump front and center in these campaigns. So, I'm glad he finally made this move and is shifting it to the political side the way it should be.

BERMAN: Ax, he invoked Obamacare and President Obama, which you have to know a little bit about there. You want a 20-second rebuttal?

[20:20:04]

AXELROD: Yes, let's be clear here. They took a political ad that they had run as a political ad a few years ago. They put the government disclaimer on it and ran it at taxpayer's expense. The President ordered these ads we in "The New York Times" because he thought they would have political value, and they were all about him.

I mean, he withdrew it not because he wanted to please radical leftists, that's not exactly what he does. He did it because regular Americans saw this paid for by the U.S. Government on it and asked, why the hell am I paying for political ads? And they have every right to ask that.

BERMAN: Ana, you're nodding at that and I've heard you talk about this yourself.

NAVARRO: Yes, I mean, it's just, you know, I think, first, I'm surprised he's backing down because this guy doesn't back down about anything, right. He always doubles down no matter what people around him are saying. And no matter what the American people are feeling.

So, he's got to be feeling an incredible amount of heat. He's got to be seeing some very worrisome poll numbers, internal poll numbers, for him on the same day to be backing down on voting by mail and on these so-called PSAs and it is more of this blase, let them eat cake attitude that the American people are seeing from Donald Trump, devoted and committed to his building of Washington, painting everything gold, his ballroom, his PSAs, all of these things paid for by the American people, while the American people can't pay for meat or gas or diesel, and are saying over and over again that they are hurting economically.

So yes, of course, he's got to back down because it's affecting Republican candidates across the line.

BERMAN: It's a good point. Two backtracks in one day between mail-in voting and then these taxpayer-funded ads.

Kristen, one of the things that gets me super excited when I wake up in the morning is I pick up the paper and I see a "Kristen Soltis Anderson Focus Group" that you've written about. I mean this because you do such a great job with them.

You recently spoke with Trump voters in Texas who are not planning on supporting Ken Paxton there, the Republican nominee. So, what did you learn about that? What did you hear?

ANDERSON; Yes, there are, I think, two big issues that are causing Republicans to run into trouble in this midterm. In some cases, it's the candidates themselves in that "Times" focus group with those Texas Trump voters who are not planning to vote for Paxton. They have a lot of concerns about Ken Paxton, the candidate himself.

And so, you know, in some races, good and bad candidates still do matter, even in a moment of really high political polarization. But the other thing those voters had to say was, look, I like Donald Trump because I thought he was different.

They would say, I thought he was not a typical politician. I thought he was going to fix cost of living. And they were very frustrated. Not only that, things were so expensive, but that they feel like Donald Trump was sort of focused on himself, glorifying himself, enriching himself and his friends and his family and those who are wealthy are around him.

And that's exactly, you know, just part and parcel of why I'm sure his smarter advisers have told him, you need to stop with these ads, they're backfiring. I'm sure that they are actually making things worse, that for every one person who hears the message and thinks, oh, Donald Trump has done things, there's probably a couple more who are like, wait a minute, this is my tax dollars being spent on this.

And I think it's just feeding further and further into this idea that it's not just that average people can't make ends meet, which would be bad enough, but it's that the people in power are using power to enrich and glorify themselves and that just goes over very badly with voters in this country.

BERMAN: And some of them were Trump voters. Trump voters were the kind of Trump fatigue there. Thanks to all of you so much for being here tonight. I appreciate it.

Up next, crowds of Cornell students gather to protest the alleged gang rape on campus and the administration's handling of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:27:59]

BERMAN: Crowds gathered on the campus of Cornell University tonight to support the alleged victim of an alleged fraternity, gang rape and protest, how the authorities handled the investigation back in 2024. Earlier today, it was discovered that vandals smashed the window of Cornell's main administrative building, according to "The Cornell Daily Sun" and spray-painted "At Cornell, rapists are protected, protesters are expelled."

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is on campus tonight with the latest, including how some faculty members are preparing a resolution for a vote of no confidence against the administration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Tensions are high at Cornell University this afternoon, students and faculty rallying together on campus to stand in solidarity with the victim of an alleged sexual assault that has rocked the school.

SAYE TAYLOR, CORNELL SOPHOMORE: Jane Doe deserved a campus that supported her. Jane Doe deserved an administration that delivered a fair and proper judicial process. Jane Doe deserved a Police Department that would actually follow up on her case. Instead, she was silenced.

PAZMINO (voice over): Monday's protest came after another bombshell in the investigation of an alleged sexual assault at a Cornell fraternity house two years ago.

FRATERNITY BROTHER: ... want me to get my recollection of the entire night?

PAZMINO (voice over): New audio obtained by "ABC News" reveals a phone call between Jane Doe and the fraternity member that she says invited her to the house the night of her alleged assault three weeks earlier. "ABC" reports that Doe secretly recorded the call, in which she asked the other student for details of the night.

"If I just know what happened, then I can feel a little bit better and move on and maybe be able to stay at the school." She tells him, according to a recording of the call.

FRATERNITY BROTHER: So, you come in, say hi. We start dancing for like maybe three to five minutes, and then I pop the question. You say yes. Then I remember like, we didn't know who else to bring. So, I go up [redacted] Who was on the dance floor, too. And I pop the question. And he's like, yo. And then we go upstairs."

PAZMINO (voice over): Jane Doe's lawyer has said that she was blacked out during portions of the alleged assault. According to "ABC" she asked on the call how she ended up in a threesome.

FRATERNITY BROTHER: "You did tell me you were sober, by the way. You did, you said you hadn't been anywhere.

PAZMINO (voice over): "ABC" does not use Jane Doe's voice in the clips it has released, but says she responded, "That is not true. I never would have said that." Documents reviewed by CNN, show Cornell University campus police drafted letters seeking records from Verizon and T-Mobile, just one week after Jane Doe reported her assault. It's unclear if investigators sent the request and whether the Tompkins County District Attorney, Matthew Van Houten, was aware of them.

[20:30:46]

THOMAS GIUFFRA, JANE DOE'S ATTORNEY: If this was a normal investigation that was done in New York City, for example, they would have gotten search warrants, they would have grabbed every single one of these phones of these guys, there were videos. And you know where I think those photos and videos are now? I think they're in the bottom of Lake Cuyahoga, because once they knew there was a problem, they cleared everything out and they got rid of it. And the fact is that the investigators let that happen.

PAZMINO (voice-over): Doe's attorney has said two of the men named in the lawsuit were expelled from the school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The governor has entrusted my office with this investigation.

PAZMINO (voice-over): Today, an attorney representing one of the students is calling on New York State Attorney General Letitia James to recuse herself as special prosecutor, based on a social media post from days earlier, where James expressed support for the alleged victim.

Over the weekend, Cornell's president spoke for the first time.

MICHAEL KOTLIKOFF, PRESIDENT, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: What happened to Jane Doe in 2024 is deeply disturbing. We don't have all the answers, but we are committed to investigating and finding the answers our community deserves.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAZMINO (on-camera): And, John, brand new reporting tonight, as several members of Cornell University's Faculty Senate have told CNN that the group is preparing to submit a resolution for a vote of no confidence in the administration's ability to handle what faculty and students here see as a widespread problem regarding sexual assault. Not just a case of Jane Doe, but others before her, and concern that there may be more after her.

This vote of no confidence would go up before the Faculty Senate in the next few weeks. We understand that that resolution is expected to be submitted to a committee tonight, and it will likely be taken up during the Faculty Senate's next meeting on October 14th. John?

BERMAN: All right, Gloria Pazmino, a lot going on in Ithaca tonight. Thank you so much.

With us now, Former Federal Prosecutor and Former D.A. for Westchester County, New York, Mimi Rocah, and Crisis Communications Strategist Erin Kramer. She's also a former senior adviser for the Manhattan District Attorney's Office.

And Mimi, I want to start with you. What's your take on these audio recordings between Jane Doe and a purported fraternity member? How much weight do you think they will have in this new investigation from the Attorney General?

MIMI ROCAH, FORMER WESTCHESTER COUNTY, NY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, John, it depends in part which investigation we're talking about. Because remember, right now there's actually two parallel investigations going on. One of how Cornell handled the allegations, and one that is a criminal investigation, and the Attorney General is actually, I believe, overseeing both of those.

In terms of the criminal investigation, which obviously I can speak to, you know, a little bit better, there -- it's complicated whether calls like that would be ever admitted into evidence if this gets to a courtroom. Their admissions of a potential defendant, if, for example, the young man on the call was charged with a crime, those are statements that could be used against him, but he couldn't introduce them, right?

So if he thought that there was something in it that made him sound not guilty or helped, you know, show his innocence, so to speak, he would not be able to introduce them. It would have to come from the people, from the government that is charging him. So it's a complicated legal issue.

I think for now, though, it is one part of a much larger, complicated, complex puzzle that the Attorney General and whomever is working with her and investigators really need to piece together to understand what happened.

BERMAN: So, Erin, from an optics perspective, we heard from the Cornell University president right there. How do you think the university has handled all of this? Do you think they have been transparent enough?

[20:35:00]

ERIN KRAMER, CRISIS COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGIST: I -- thank you, John. I think there have been a lot of really big problems with this from the beginning. I think it's so much more than optics. I've talked a lot about the statements that the school has put out since this happened.

But I think the biggest issue we have is the year and a half that it took them to do a detailed report after these allegations came to light, and it was a waste of paper. It had nothing new in it. You know, in the report, it said 52 percent of Greek-affiliated women had reported being sexually assaulted while at Cornell.

Campus police were barely mentioned in this, and they had the audacity to put in a short segment that said that this could be a good fundraising opportunity for the school. I think, you know, communications has to start with something, and right now Cornell has given us nothing to communicate about.

So --

BERMAN: Yes, so --

KRAMER: Sorry, that's -- I'm very disappointed.

BERMAN: Room for improvement, according to you. Mimi, we mentioned that an attorney representing one of the students allegedly involved is calling on New York Attorney General Letitia James to recuse herself now as special counsel -- she was only, you know, appointed a few days ago -- based on a social media post before her appointment where she expressed support for the alleged victim, saying, quote, "We stand with you."

How problematic is that social media post and maybe even the news conference we heard from the governor and the attorney general last week?

ROCAH: Well, it's problematic in that there is no question in my mind that, I mean, they're already calling for the recusal. But, again, if this ends up in court, you will 100 percent see motions by the attorneys for anyone charged with a crime to a judge saying that the attorney general has to be recused because she prejudged the case, you know, see this statement.

So it is something she is going to have to deal with at some point if there are crimes charged. I will say, look, she made the statement before she was appointed. I wish she hadn't made the statement. There's no question we would all be better off.

The whole point of appointing a special counsel was for us to be able to gain faith that this is going to be done fairly. And that means everybody, both Jane Doe and the potential people who might get charged.

On the other hand, she did not, I don't think, in my opinion, say something that showed she was prejudging the facts of the case. I think she was talking to a broader sort of horror at, you know, something that this woman, even according to the D.A., his many statements, had experienced.

It would be much preferable, and this is why prosecutors and when I was the D.A., you know, I did not speak to the press about pending cases. This was not pending before her, but it was foreseeable that it might be.

BERMAN: Erin, we should note that you worked at Duke, not during the Duke lacrosse investigation, which was years ago --

KRAMER: Correct.

BERMAN: -- actually, I covered. But it does give you a sense of how a university works with the police and might work with local prosecutors here. What is the standard protocol in a situation like that? ' KRAMER: So there's already a law in place that requires universities to cooperate with local prosecutors. Clearly, in this case, that didn't work at all. And the protocol, in my opinion, needs to be that when you have a serious allegation of a crime, particularly a violent felony, that the first investigative body be the one that's going to end up prosecuting it.

So clearly, people should have been brought in right from the beginning. So you're building a case, especially in a sex crimes case, with all of the possible evidence you can get at the time. It shouldn't be a sloppy handoff.

And again, coming back to this report with no new substance in it, when you look at the combined endowments of the eight Ivy League schools being $200 billion, are you telling me that we can't take some of those resources and put them into sex crimes investigations, both at the school, but also for the local communities as well? I think there's a huge opportunity here.

BERMAN: Erin Kramer, Mimi Rocah, thank you both so much for being with us tonight.

Still ahead, a researcher at a Russian plague lab dies from what health officials there call pneumonia of unknown origin. Now dozens are in quarantine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:43:38]

BERMAN: A Chicago woman who was shot five times by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent during Operation Midway Blitz last year is now suing the federal government. Marimar Martinez and her attorneys claim that despite what the Department of Homeland Security has said, she never weaponized her car against the agent. They also say that even after Martinez had driven past him, he continued to fire his weapon.

CNN's Omar Jimenez sat down with Martinez and his attorneys for this exclusive interview. First, a warning, some of the images you are about to see are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIMAR MARTINEZ, SHOT BY U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION AGENT: Since the beginning of my whole case, I was being called a domestic terrorist. I was being charged. They wanted to take everything from me quick, quick in seconds.

I was still at the hospital and I was already being labeled as a threat. They didn't even know if I was alive or dead or if I was going to make it.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Almost a year to the day since Marimar Martinez was shot in Chicago by a Border Patrol agent multiple times and lived. Now she's filing a federal civil lawsuit against the U.S. government.

And as part of the process, her legal team worked with the shooting reconstruction expert. They used scene photos, bullet trajectories and her wounds to help determine where Agent Charles Exum was when he fired his weapon.

MICHAEL GALLAGHER, ATTORNEY FOR MARIMAR MARTINEZ: The only defense that they have is that he was in reasonable fear of his life, OK? And the only way he could be in reasonable fear of his life, if you were actually driving at him.

MARTINEZ: Driving at him.

GALLAGHER: And you're going to see that that's all (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this.

[20:45:08]

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Some of their findings were presented at a press conference Monday. According to their analysis, the first three shots went through the passenger side of the windshield toward Martinez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is shot one. That is shot two, shot three.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): This would be Exum's point of view for the fourth shot as Martinez was driving away. The analysis of the fifth shot they believe to be the most significant first seen here from Martinez's perspective. And then that same shot from a different angle, along with the real time video as presented by the attorneys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been shot. We've been shot.

GALLAGHER: We talk about Renee Good, we talk about Alex Pretti, I mean, this is a U.S. law enforcement officer standing behind your vehicle, shooting you as you're crouched forward over the steering wheel, passed him clearly, firing at you from the back of your car window.

MARTINEZ: I chose. It's heartbreaking because I don't really remember like, like the street. I just remember like passing him and him just shooting at me. That's all I remember. But like now it's like them is coming back.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Martinez was initially charged with assaulting, resisting and impeding federal officers as she was accused of ramming a federal agent with her vehicle. She always maintained, it was the agent that rammed her. And a little over a month later, the government requested to drop its own case.

And body camera video released months later appeared to show Border Patrol Agent Charles Exum turned the steering wheel into Martinez's vehicle before opening fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be advised, we've been struck, we've been struck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down!

(GUN SHOTS)

JIMENEZ (voice-over): When Agent Exum was previously asked in court whether he was concerned he could be violating use of force policy in this incident, he responded, "Not in the slightest."

But Martinez and her attorneys don't just want civil remedies here.

CHRISTOPHER PARENTE, ATTORNEY FOR MARIMAR MARTINEZ: This stuff is unacceptable in any other time in American history. This officer would be behind bars and there would have been a full prosecution by now. The fact that it has not happened yet is crazy, but it will happen. I'm -- I know that he will be charged.

JIMENEZ: Is that what justice looks like to you, Marimar?

MARTINEZ: It does.

JIMENEZ: Yes. You want to see him charged.

MARTINEZ: Behind bars? Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: And Omar Jimenez is here now. Omar, how has the federal government responded to this lawsuit?

JIMENEZ (on-camera): So we're not hearing much right now. We reached out to the Department of Homeland Security. A spokesperson said that this agent Exum was placed on administrative leave. But when I asked, is he still on administrative leave? I didn't hear back on that front.

They did then refer me to the Department of Justice. The DOJ told me they don't comment on active litigation. But what's interesting is you heard them say they want criminal charges here. They're actually trying to go the local route.

They placed a complaint with the Chicago Police Department and there, a spokesperson from the Chicago Police Department did confirm that there is an active investigation playing out through one of their incident response teams. And so, I bring that out because local charges were filed against an ICE agent in Minneapolis. And this comes a few days after the family of Renee Good also filed federal civil lawsuits.

BERMAN: All right. Well, clearly more to learn still here.

JIMENEZ (on-camera): Yes.

BERMAN: Great that you're still on this story.

Omar Jimenez, thank you very much.

BERMAN: A U.S. official tells CNN that the Air Force moved all of its long-range bombers stationed in the United Kingdom back to their American home base on Sunday after an unspecified new threat. The question is, what does it mean?

With us now, CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk, who held senior national security posts under the last four presidents. He's also author of the new book, "Brink: Inside the Race to Free the October 7th Hostages," which takes readers inside his key role as a top negotiator for the Biden White House.

It goes on sale tomorrow. It's terrific. I'm holding it right here in my hands. We'll get to it in just a second.

First, to take all the bombers out of the United Kingdom, pretty suddenly, I'm not sure I've heard something like that before. What do you think might be behind that?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It reminds me, remember Operation Spider Web in June of last year? That's when the Ukrainians got these trucks deep into Russia.

BERMAN: Yes.

MCGURK: And FPV drones. That means first-person view drones. It's kind of you operate it like a video game, very small, but with an explosive charge so accurate and can destroy bombers on a runway, on a military base.

So we don't know exactly, but it seems to be there's some concern about something like that. Now, that would likely be state-sponsored. President Trump today again alluded to Iran. If it is Iran, this gets really complicated because then you're talking about Article 5 NATO state on state attack.

So we got to see where the facts go. But this is the new age of warfare, John. This is drones, asymmetric threats, and it's proliferating.

BERMAN: I mean, that's a high-level threat there and a high-level concern. All right. Let's go back to after October 7th --

MCGURK: Yes.

BERMAN: -- right, the months and years after that. You were all over the place trying to work out some kind of a deal there. The frustration in your job, like, bursts off the page --

MCGURK: Yes.

BERMAN: -- of your book there. What were some of the main challenges you faced?

MCGURK: Well, John, the book comes out tomorrow and, you know, we're in the third anniversary here of October 7th on Wednesday, that commemoration. And we faced from the beginning just irreconcilable positions.

[20:50:07]

Hamas' position after October 7th was we just killed 1,200 people. We sent thousands of terrorists into Israel. We took 251 hostages, largest mass hostage attack in modern history. And their position was, we're going to stay in power, OK? Let's do a deal. We're going to stay in power. Kind of go back to October 6th. Israel's position was after what just happened, Hamas will never remain in power in Gaza, period. So you had these irreconcilable positions. And the hostages became like the bargaining chips.

And we were trying to do two things, get the hostages out and find a way to a cease fire. The two are totally intertwined. And the book is really that story. In addition to the regional challenge, everything Iran is doing, missile attacks, drone attacks, very similar to what we were just talking about, Americans coming under fire, and ultimately moving our way towards a deal.

But it is exceedingly complex. I wanted to tell the story. It's, you know, objective account as I saw it through my eyes and comes out tomorrow.

BERMAN: And you were really right in the middle of it and the middle of them in some cases. This got some play in terms of the news story in the New York Times. There was this call you talk about between President Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu in April of 2024, where the frustration boils over. And the president at the time, Joe Biden, threatens to basically cut off aid to Israel. What happened there?

MCGURK: Well, it's one of many scenes in the book. I mean, the book brings you inside the room. You're inside all the rooms. You're in the Oval Office situation. You're overseas.

That account in April, you know, the president's frustrated because hostage talks have collapsed. We're looking at one of the largest missile attacks Iran is preparing against Israel ever. We had this tragic strike against aid workers with the World Central Kitchen in Gaza. And everything's kind of spiraling.

The president's also in his reelection campaign, kind of can't get a shot on goal, explain how we're going to get out of this. He's extremely frustrated. And he says to Prime Minister Netanyahu, you know, this somehow we got to get this thing to an end. And he does make that threat. He puts that threat on the table.

What we did after that call, John, was we did help defend Israel from this missile attack. The reader's in the room for that. And then after that, Biden used some colorful language in that call with Netanyahu right after we stopped help stop that missile attack and said we're going to get back to this hostage and ceasefire deal.

And by the end of May, we had a deal on the table. President announced it to the country and the Israelis accepted it. And again, the book is about waiting for Hamas to respond, trying to get that answer. And Hamas, unfortunately, did not say yes. That was a lost opportunity.

BERMAN: There's a lot of information in here, a lot of frustration, but also a lot to learn.

Brett McGurk, the book is "Brink". On sale tomorrow. Thanks so much.

MCGURK: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Congratulations on the work.

MCGURK: Thank you .

BERMAN: Next, all we're learning about a Russian lab worker's death and the work that her lab was doing with the plague.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:58]

BERMAN: A lab worker at a Russian plague research facility has died from pneumonia of an unknown origin. Now dozens of people are quarantined. The woman was identified as a 28-year-old lab technician. Russian officials said, quote, "No microorganisms associated with the employees' professional duties were detected in samples taken from the patient."

Dr. Peter Hotez joins us now. He's a professor of pediatrics and molecular virology and microbiology. Dr. Hotez, it's always great to see you.

The World Health Organization says the risk to the general public from the situation is low, but when you hear the word plague, one gets understandably concerned. How concerned are you?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR, PEDIATRICS AND MOLECULAR VIROLOGY AND MICROBIOLOGY: Well, here's the way I think about it. First of all, it makes sense this institute does plague research. It's at the northern edge of the Central Asian steppes, which is known as one of the hotspot areas where plague bacillus naturally circulates among the wild animal populations -- marmots, rodents, gerbils. And so, and occasionally it gets spilled over to humans.

So it makes sense that this is a research laboratory that investigates plague. But there's a lot of disconnect here. And I think there's more we don't know than we do know. For instance, you know, the official federal government response said no occupational pathogen. I think that's the term they've used.

And as they're not even saying that this is definitely plague yet. And so there are other pathogens they work on at this institute. And so you have this kind of muted response from the federal government, and yet you have 200 people either in quarantine or being monitored.

You've got the federal government involved, including the federal security staff. So there's something missing here, and I don't think we know the full details. We also don't know if they've identified the organism yet, and if it is plague bacillus, and if it is, whether it's sensitive to antibiotics, whether the 200 individuals are on antibiotics.

So we need transparency. We need the World Health Organization to come in and help clean this up.

BERMAN: Yes. On the subject of transparency, how much should anyone trust the Russians here? HOTEZ: Yes. I mean, I think you hit on it. It certainly doesn't help when you have such an obvious disconnect. You know, the federal government saying nothing to see here, and yet all of this flurry of activity. So that's the most imperative.

It would be nice if we knew the plague bacilli strains that are being used to share them internationally with scientists so they can see if they have antibiotic resistance markers. It's just common sense of public health. You know, this has been going on a few days now.

The incubation period for when people are exposed to plague bacillus via an aerosol route and contract pneumonic plague is usually just a few days. So this individual got sick on September 29th, we understand, tragically passed away on October 2nd.

So if there were more cases, you'd expect to start seeing them by now. And maybe that's the case, and there isn't that transparency.

BERMAN: Well, hopefully we will learn more, and hopefully this does not turn out to be something we need to speak to you about. But you never know. We've been here before.

Dr. Peter Hotez, it's great to see you tonight. Thank you very much.

HOTEZ: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Obviously a lot going on in the world.

The news continues right now. The Source with Kaitlan Collins begins now.