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Amanpour
State of the Egyptian Revolution; Vatican Under Pope Francis; Young Internet Millionaire
Aired March 27, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN HOST: Good evening. Welcome to the program. I'm Ali Velshi, filling in for Christiane Amanpour.
Tonight: is the Egyptian revolution unraveling? Violent clashes are an everyday occurrence now in Cairo. Street fights between Muslim Brotherhood supporters and young secular protesters, the same young people who filled Tahrir Square and sparked the revolution that overthrew Hosni Mubarak.
Take a look at this dramatic video --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI (voice-over): -- Morsi supporters, beating an anti-Morsi demonstrator.
After this assault, the young man being beaten was arrested, accused of inciting violence using social media. Meanwhile the latest moves from President Mohammed Morsi are inflaming an already volatile situation.
The latest crisis began Friday, when a group of anti-Islamists violently attacked the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters in Cairo and, on Monday, a new chief prosecutor, handpicked by the president, ordered the arrest of five of Morsi's most prominent political critics, one of them the young man we just saw being beaten.
Meanwhile, Egypt's troubled economy, which was the driver of the January revolution, is getting worse. Now Moody's, the rating agency, has downgraded Egypt's credit. In a moment, I'll ask a spokesman from the Muslim Brotherhood how much longer this can go on.
But first, here's what's coming up later in the program.
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VELSHI (voice-over): The pope without pomp: Francis trades in his palace for a room with a view.
Then he's the latest Internet millionaire.
NICK D'ALOISIO, SUMMLY INVENTOR: Well, you know if you're learning more, you're learning faster. You're getting information that's more meaningful, more valuable and you're staying smart.
VELSHI (voice-over): Now if he can just pass his finals.
And in China, it's the Year of the Snake. But the crocodile in the Yangtze River still rules.
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VELSHI: We'll get to that in a bit, but first Gehad Haddad, a senior adviser and media spokesperson to the Muslim Brotherhood joins me now from Cairo.
Gehad, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.
GEHAD HADDAD, SENIOR ADVISER, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD: (Inaudible). Thank you.
VELSHI: Things are not getting better in Egypt. In fact, some are worried that Egypt is falling apart, falling into greater disarray than it was at the -- at the height of the revolution. Is Egypt falling apart?
HADDAD: I don't think it is falling apart. I think that many of the disturbances that we are seeing and the shifts of dynamic power in the region are affecting the transition of Egypt.
We have to put in mind at the end of the day, since the revolution and to this day, Egypt has not fully finalized a functional political system. And the closer we come to finalizing that, the more disturbances will occur because of the fighting of the old regime, trying to sustain its survival.
VELSHI: One of the things that Egypt had going for it was a working judiciary. And this is now being called into question. There have been questions about this new -- this new prosecutor, who has been accused of using sort of politics to decide on the arrests of these protesters. You just saw that video of a man being beaten. He's now been ordered arrested.
Talk to me about the judiciary and what's happening there.
HADDAD: Certainly. I didn't see the video; unfortunately, I don't have the signal in front of me. But perhaps later you can elaborate who these images were of.
But the judiciary of Egypt has always been called into question, including in the last 10 years of Mubarak's time.
One of the main seven demands of the revolution that was echoed continuously until the military council left office was the removal of the prosecutor general, one of the biggest obstacles to prosecute the members of the old regime and the officers that were responsible for killing many of the revolutionaries and youth during the 18 days and even afterwards and still to this day are responsible for many of that.
So the judiciary in Egypt has many trends and streams within it. Most notable of them, during the past regime, was the independent stream, and a stream amongst the judiciaries that were responsible for discovering and putting in to question many of the frauds and meddling of the dictatorship regime of Mubarak inside the judiciary and even in the elections of 2005 --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: The issue though, Gehad --
HADDAD: -- the independent stream --
VELSHI: -- the issue, though, is the methodology by which Mohammed Morsi removed that prosecutor general and installed another one, who is now seen to be political. The courts are saying that's not the right methodology to have used. I mean, it's a legitimate question. Did Mohammed Morsi overstep his authority in doing that?
HADDAD: I don't think so. It's actually a common trend in many countries around the world, including in the United States. That's the authority of the president. And including, according to the constitution of Egypt and the laws of Egypt, it's the authority of the president to appoint the prosecutor general.
The previous prosecutor general, out of a respect for the judiciary, President Morsi tried to promote him out of office. But we've all seen how the rest of the judiciary dealt with this and even some political forces that thought this might be a good opportunity to attack President Morsi.
At the end of the day, this was one of the core demands of the revolution and all the youth and the previous (inaudible) --
VELSHI: But you get --
HADDAD: -- in Egypt.
VELSHI: -- you get the fact --
(CROSSTALK)
HADDAD: -- abided by the constitution, it was --
VELSHI: -- but you understand, Gehad, that --
HADDAD: -- his legal powers --
VELSHI: -- this is the same --
HADDAD: -- and the appointment was defended by --
VELSHI: -- let me just ask this. I know there's a bit of a delay between us, so I know that it's hard to hear that.
Let me ask you this, though. This is the same argument that we heard from the -- from the Mubarak regime, right, that it is opposition interests meddling in the successful running of government. I don't think it's (inaudible). I just want to play for our viewers this video that I played earlier -- and I'll tell you what it shows.
It's a YouTube clip that's getting a lot of attention. And it shows reportedly Ahmed Duma (ph), one of the political opponents who was ordered -- who subsequently ordered arrested being beaten by reportedly Muslim Brotherhood supporters.
The prosecutor seems to have taken a blind eye toward those who were beating him. And then we've got this -- and then I'd like you to listen to -- from a spokesman for the opposition, Khaled Dawood, about these arrests, these arrest orders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHALED DAWOOD, SPOKESMAN, EGYPTIAN SALVATION FRONT: Let me remind President Mohammed Morsi that these four of the five who are now being summoned to be facing charges were among the front lines of those who led the revolution two years ago, the same revolution that allowed President Morsi to get out of prison and to become the president of Egypt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: So now, Gehad, I'm not going to ask you to comment on things that you can't see there and the (inaudible) --
(CROSSTALK)
HADDAD: -- no, no; if you would allow me.
VELSHI: OK.
HADDAD: No, no, if you would allow me, I think it's very peculiar that you would show only that video of this activist or, as he would like to call himself. I think that anyone searching on the Internet in his name in Arabic would find videos of him throwing Molotov cocktails, attacking buildings, attacking even police officers, putting fires in buildings and in vehicles. I think we have passed this point.
And these attacks were not pertaining to the Mahata (ph) attacks. In fact, the prosecutor general had actually questioned many members of the Muslim Brotherhood and of -- there is evidence of --
VELSHI: But has not ordered any arrests, has not been -- has not --
HADDAD: -- and of course --
VELSHI: -- ordered any arrests of the Muslim Brotherhood.
HADDAD: No, no, he ordered questioning. He ordered questioning, as far as I know. And I think that it's different media channels that choose what to focus on and what not to focus on. And it has to be fair to show - -
VELSHI: Fair enough. Let me ask you a broader question then, Gehad.
HADDAD: -- the Facebook and Twitter activities (inaudible) would know --
VELSHI: Let me ask you a broader question, then, because we're not going to get to the bottom of -- and your -- he is known as a critic of the government. There's no question about that. We did cover that in our introduction. Let me ask you this, though.
Ultimately --
HADDAD: Well, believe it or not, he used to be a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
VELSHI: All right. This -- the issue here, though, is that the people who are protesting, the Muslim Brotherhood, the people who are protesting the president right now are, in many cases, the very people who were protesting in Tahrir Square, starting in January of 2011.
This is the problem: the problem is that Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood have sort of replaced the regime that triggered this revolution.
HADDAD: That's not quite true, because I think if you look at the fact, the revolution had clear, specific demands that the majority of the population and all of the political forces were backing.
The fact that some of these political forces have now chosen to back the old regime -- for any reasons; I'm not going to question their reasons or their intentions. But at the end of the day, we stick to the process and the frameworks.
We respect the judiciary, even though, in fact, many of its interpretations are questionable. But there has to be an unbiased reference point. And the president has acted within his constitutional power to remove the previous prosecutor general and install a new one. And that has been transferred to a constitutional clause in the constitution of Egypt that has been ratified by Egyptians.
VELSHI: I'm not sure why you equate opposition to Mohammed Morsi and or the Muslim Brotherhood with supporting the previous regime. I'm not sure these five men who were ordered arrested are saying bring back the Mubarak regime. They're just opposing what the -- what Morsi is doing.
HADDAD: Not quite. The reason for their call has been clearly stated by the prosecutor general's office, that they were inciting violence. They had called for protests and called for violence in these protests. They appeared on scene and they participated in the violence. Both the prosecutor general and the Muslim Brotherhood have evidence of that.
We have handed over all of our evidence to the office of the prosecutor general and they are working through the system as any system of judiciary or prosecution would work through. I don't see anything peculiar about it. Anyone who knew these activists or followed their streams would occasionally read their messages of hatred, their messages of calls for violence, for vandalism.
And I don't see anything outside of the ordinary in here. At the end of the day, this is a new prosecutor general's office, respected by judiciary, assigned politically and constitutionally and legally in the right context, that we were always asking for since the revolution in Egypt. And -- sorry?
VELSHI: Well, there's at least one ruling from a court that doesn't support what you're saying, but this, I imagine, is going to play out over some time.
And Gehad, we'll continue that conversation. I appreciate you joining us.
HADDAD: Indeed.
VELSHI: Gehad Haddad joining us on this topic.
Turning now to Rome and the new pope: simple is the new chic. That's how one Vatican cardinal is describing the new era of Pope Francis. The pope, as we know, is a no-frills guy. So far he's been given -- or he has given a big thumbs-down to many of the frills that come with the job.
Today he did it again. The leader of the Catholics worldwide says he doesn't want to live in the palatial papal apartment. He will live here instead, a room inside the Vatican hotel, the Casa Santa Marta, a simpler residence, where he's been living for the last two weeks -- not exactly the Ritz.
John Allen, the CNN senior Vatican analyst, he's a correspondent with the "National Catholic Reporter," John, great to see you again.
What does this mean? I mean, we know this pope is about simplicity; he's about humility.
Is there any bigger meaning to this? Or does he just not want to live in the papal apartments?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN SR. VATICAN ANALYST: Hey, Ali. Well, I think the first thing to say is that I don't believe this is some kind of PR driven charm offensive. I think this is consistent with what we know about the character of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the man who is now Pope Francis.
I mean, when he was the archbishop of Buenos Aires, he was famous for refusing to take his chauffeur-driven limousine and either walking or taking the bus to get to work.
He declined to live in the archbishops' residence, a fairly lavish structure and instead stayed in a spartan apartment, so spartan, in fact, that the story goes that he had to leave his stove on over the weekends to keep warm because the building turned off the heat. So part of this is just who he is. But I do think there are two pieces of strategy here.
One is he has said he wants to be a pope for the poor. He has said his dream is a poor church for the poor. I think he's smart enough to understand that it's tough to preach solidarity for the poor if you are perceived yourself as living in opulence.
I think the other point here is that he also knows that being pope, to some extent, means you're stuck inside a bubble. He's trying to do what he can not to be isolated. And being there in the -- in the hotel in Vatican grounds, where he's meeting all kinds of different folks, is a great antidote to that.
VELSHI: Right. But he can only get away from it so much, right? There is this bubble. The reality is -- and I don't -- we have no reason to believe it, but it sort of sounds like a PR stunt at some point, because he's the pope. He's got to have this -- a lot of the stuff that comes along with being pope.
ALLEN: Well, and look, let's be clear. It's not like he's putting the papal apartments on the real estate market. I mean, he is going to continue to go in there every day and to have the formal ceremonial things that come with being pope, such as receiving heads of state and other dignitaries, visiting bishops there.
And look, Ali, you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, at some point, the demands of the job take over. I mean, for example, he is not going to be taking the bus or the subway in Rome because if he did that, it would mean total gridlock for the city.
VELSHI: Right.
ALLEN: However, I think within the limits of what's realistically achievable, as the world's most visible religious leader, he's trying to stay as close to the people as he can.
VELSHI: But you heard the comment from that cardinal, who said, "simple is the new chic," is there some trickle-down effect here that you'll start seeing amongst cardinals, with the church, in churches across the world?
ALLEN: Sure. Well, first of all, let me confess that "simple is the new chic" line is something that a cardinal said to me over lunch in Rome last week. So I'm actually the source for that. And, yes, you know, I do think it's not just the fact that you're going to see princes of the church, you know, behaving and dressing more simply.
I think if there's one thing that is clear about the Catholic system, it's that people tend to take their cues from the pope.
And when you have a pope who quite is so clearly committed to solidarity for the world's poor and trying to move the ball in terms of defending the interests of the poor, that will have a trickle-down effect in terms of firing the imaginations, not just of bishops and other prelates, but also Catholics at the grassroots.
VELSHI: And the comment that "simple is the new chic" is something you heard in reference to a comment you made about things seeming or looking a little less lavish?
ALLEN: Well, what happened, Ali, was that I was at lunch in our -- in a Roman eatery last week, a place where a lot of Vatican personnel go. And I bumped into a very veteran Vatican cardinal, a guy who's been in the system, you know, for almost -- what seems like forever and normally dresses the part.
But I noticed that day that he was dressed quite modestly. And so I jokingly asked him what was up with that. And he looked at me, and he smiled. And he said, "With this pope, simple is the new chic."
VELSHI: John, it's great to have you on the story. Thank you so much for being with us.
John Allen joining us.
All right. After a break, it's that time of year when high school students are cramming for final exams. You might think that wouldn't concern my next guest, who just sold his company to Yahoo! for $30 million. But guess again. Nick D'Aloisio is -- he still lives with his parents. He has finals. He's got work to do. We'll talk to him when we come back.
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VELSHI: Welcome back to the program. I'm Ali Velshi, filling in for Christiane Amanpour.
When Mark Zuckerberg founded Facebook in his college dorm room in 2004, he became the face of social media. You all remember the movie; the future billionaire was bright-eyed, determined, probably still fighting acne.
But compared to the latest round of tech innovators, Zuckerberg seems like a grandpa. Nick D'Aloisio is 17 years old. He's just sold his 2-year- old app to Yahoo! for a reported $30 million. He's not even done with high school yet.
The app, Summly, creates summaries of the news for mobile phones. Take a look at this explainer that D'Aloisio did with the British actor and writer, Stephen Fry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
This is my friend, Stephen.
STEPHEN FRY, ACTOR: Friend. (Inaudible) idol?
D'Aloisio: Stephen's tremendously good at cutting to the essence of things. And that's what I wanted to do with news. So I created a company called Summly. (Inaudible) interests and it shows you summarized content.
But instead of just a headline, Summly gives you 400 characters. That's more than a tweet, but less than a full article. It identifies keypoints that matter most and summarizes them for you in just a handful of sentences.
FRY: Get just the sentences that matter most.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Well, he's clearly got the tech evangelism down. When he founded the company, D'Aloisio was featured on tech websites.
His investors quickly grew, include Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka Shing, Yoko Ono, Ashton Kutcher -- Yahoo! is getting his app but D'Aloisio himself may be their most valuable addition to a company trying to reinvent itself in the age of Facebook and Twitter. And this 17-year old may be just the fresh face that they need.
Nick joins me now in the studio.
Nick, good to see you.
D'ALOISIO: Great to see you.
VELSHI: You really are 17 years old. You look 17 years old.
Have you ever had a date?
D'ALOISIO: Yes, I have. I have a girlfriend, actually.
VELSHI: Oh, you do? All right, good.
Do you drive?
D'ALOISIO: No, I don't. I mean to be getting a life and seeing I've got to start my license.
VELSHI: Right. So I find in life I'm very distracted by all sorts of things. Little things are happening; I'm expecting something in the mail and I sort of can't concentrate and think. How does this feel?
D'ALOISIO: Pretty crazy, actually. I mean, the reason why I'm fundamentally excited by this opportunity, it's not anything to do with kind of the money or the deal, but the opportunity --
VELSHI: People always say that.
D'ALOISIO: But it's true; the opportunity at Yahoo! because, as you saying, they are in the process of reinventing themselves. And with Marissa Mayer, they have a real focus on product and --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: (Inaudible) Facebook gave you $30 million.
D'ALOISIO: And, no, I would have, because --
VELSHI: You would have said no?
D'ALOISIO: Well, we were speaking to multiple companies. So we did choose Yahoo! And it's because of that focus on product and design and mobile. And Summly was a mobile application. And so I think we're going to really feel at home there.
VELSHI: OK. The more I hear you, when I've heard you in a number of interviews that you've done, the more I hear you talk, I start to not actually believe you're 17 years old; you're 47 years old or you're getting advice from people.
Tell me how that works. What's your -- what's your -- what's your world of advisers look like?
D'ALOISIO: Yes, so I founded the company. I was the sole founder. For about six months, I was coding myself. I built the original algorithm. I was fortunate enough for the Hong Kong billionaire, Li Ka Shing, to just cold approach me. And so he --
VELSHI: How does that work? He called you? He emailed you? What does that -- how does that look?
D'ALOISIO: It was an email from one of his representatives. And they were like, look, we're really interested in talking to you. They didn't realize I was a 15-year-old kid. They just really loved Summly (inaudible) technology. And then we had a phone call and we were discussing when I was going to meet. And it came -- transpired that I had school. And then ended up flying out and investing.
VELSHI: You're a kid. You study. Where did you learn to code?
D'ALOISIO: I self-taught myself, got some books, kind of video tutorials.
VELSHI: Wow.
D'ALOISIO: Started in 2008 and the thing that really interested me from the coding perspective is the science behind the algorithm that we've developed and it's this summarization technology. So it's taking long form content, automatically condensing it. So it fits the phone screen size.
VELSHI: I heard somewhere that you had licensed some of the technology. What was the combination of what you developed versus what you bought?
D'ALOISIO: Yes. So we -- I developed the original algorithm. We have a team of in-house scientists that have also been coding. We worked with Sanford SRI. So they're the guys who did Siri, for example.
And they actually generated brand-new IP. They didn't have any -- it wasn't a license. They didn't have any stuff previously existing. We built the IP together under an exclusive license. And then when we sold to Yahoo!, all of that IP was transferred over to them. So Summly and Yahoo! owns 100 percent of the IP.
VELSHI: What does a 17-year old do with all this money?
D'ALOISIO: Well, I'm not allowed to touch it, actually. So it's going to be invested in due course with my parents.
VELSHI: OK. And what are your parents like? I mean, were they pushing you down this road? Are you like one of these Chinese gymnasts? Or did they not really know what you were doing? "Can you come down for dinner; why are you still on your computer?"
D'ALOISIO: It's more the latter. They were kind of enthusiastic and they were encouraging me about things like technology.
VELSHI: Because they thought it might help you get into university or something?
D'ALOISIO: Yes, it was more because I just did it. It's like it was (inaudible) actually, I did it for fun. I mean, I never told any of my mates about my apps for about two or three years.
VELSHI: Really?
D'ALOISIO: So it just wasn't -- it didn't -- it wasn't something I was doing practically for kind of, I guess, representation. It was a genuine inner interest.
VELSHI: So have you had some discussion as to what you do with the money? Do you get some of it? Do you get to buy something neat?
D'ALOISIO: It'll be in a trust fund. It'll be invested --
VELSHI: Every last dollar?
D'ALOISIO: Yes -- no, well, I'll have a salary, which (inaudible). I might (inaudible) kind of save -- again, save that. I mean, the only thing I was quoted as wanting a shoulder bag, which is true, because --
VELSHI: I'm sure we can work out a shoulder bag for you. (Inaudible) like one with CNN on it?
All right. Let me ask you this, then.
What -- you talked about you mates. How do you now relate to your mates? You're an inventor. You're a multimillionaire. You still have to go to school.
D'ALOISIO: Yes. No, I'm doing my A levels or the kind of equivalent of the SAT and final year, kind of outside of school. But I relate to them now as I did in the past.
I mean, it hasn't changed, in my opinion, with this deal because I'm still focusing on the product, the technology; the motivation was never the money. It was genuinely I've been doing apps for three years prior just for the fun. And so that's going to -- hopefully continue.
VELSHI: So what's the future hold for you?
D'ALOISIO: Well, I'm really exciting about Yahoo! I'm going to be working now. I'm an employee now, integrating, some of these technology in the near future, kind of on a real global scale there. And that's what's really exciting me. So I'm just going to keep --
VELSHI: (Inaudible) school in your future?
D'ALOISIO: Yes, like I want to go to university at some point. I just love learning and so if there's a way we can fit it all in, that would be awesome.
VELSHI: Excellent. What a great conversation. Thanks for coming by. Good to meet you. Congratulations.
D'ALOISIO: Thank you.
VELSHI: All right. Years before Yahoo! gave millions to this high school student in Britain, it gave $1 billion to an English teacher in China, the crocodile that devoured the Internet, when we come back.
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VELSHI: A final thought tonight, as 17-year-old Nick D'Aloisio steps into the spotlight, another Internet whiz is leaving the stage -- sort of.
Jack Ma, the founder of Alibaba, China's e-commerce giant, well, he knows how to make an entrance at a company rally. But now he's making his exit, resigning as CEO in May. His reason? He's too darn old. At 48, he said in his letter of resignation, "I am no longer young for the Internet business," and so he's bowing out.
Really? It was just 14 years ago that the former English teacher decided to take on the big boys of Silicon Valley. He soon got help from Yahoo!, the same bunch that bought Nick D'Aloisio's app, with a billion- dollar investment. "eBay may be a shark in the ocean," he once said, "but I am a crocodile in the Yangtze River.
Bon appetit. Last year, the crocodile gobbled up $170 billion in sales, more than eBay and Amazon combined. And a possible public offering could be bigger than Facebook's, making it one of the most highly prized companies in the world.
Ali Baba, the character in the "Arabian Nights," worked magic by saying, "Open sesame." Jack Ma, who will still have a say in the company, has opened China's Internet to the world.
That's it for tonight's program. Meanwhile, you can always contact us on amanpour.com. Thank you for watching and good night from New York.
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