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Amanpour
Examining Iran's Presidential Election; Sexual Assault in the Military Discussed
Aired June 13, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
And tonight, Iran's presidential election: what's at stake and what kind of election is it anyway? The country's Supreme Leader has stacked the deck with handpicked candidates, looking to avoid a repeat of the 2009 elections when reformers took to the streets in mass protest against what they saw as a rigged vote.
But first tonight, the crisis gripping the United States military right now, the war within as victims of sexual assault in the military fight for justice. In a moment, my exclusive interview with one young woman, a student at the Annapolis Naval Academy, who says she was raped by three members of the football team at a party last year when she was admittedly incapacitated by alcohol.
Her case may but only may go to trial. But the U.S. Military Code of Justice calls for her superiors at the Naval Academy to preside over these proceedings, effectively having control over her career, her destiny.
And not surprisingly, only a tiny fraction of sexual assaults are ever reported, something New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand told me that she is working to change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), N.Y.: Our biggest challenge is creating a culture and a circumstance under which the victims and survivors are willing to tell their story and willing to report. What the victims have told us is that they fear retaliation, being marginalized, ending their careers or being blamed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Senator Gillibrand had proposed legislation that would take sexual assault cases out of the hands of the military chain of command and put them into the hands of trained prosecutors.
But this week senators rejected her proposal and they were supported by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK HAGEL, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I don't personally believe that you can eliminate the command structure in the military from this process because it is the culture; it is the institution. It's the people within that institution that have to fix the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Women's rights' advocates are calling that a travesty of justice. They want independent prosecutors to adjudicate.
My guest tonight has agreed to speak with me but in shadow to keep her identity secret. And she has also made clear that she speaks personally and not on behalf of the Naval Academy or any other branch of the U.S. military.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Thank you very much for joining me.
Take us back to that night April last year. What do you remember about what happened to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On April 14th of last year, I went to a party at an off-campus house outside of the academy grounds. I went to the party. I chose to drink. I don't really remember much about the night. I woke up the following morning to find like bruising and to find out that things weren't right.
I was still unaware of the events that occurred that night. Following that, I'd come to find out from outside sources that I had been sexually assaulted by three individuals at the party.
AMANPOUR: How did you find that out? I mean, if you didn't remember, did somebody see it? Did -- how was it reported back to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My first initial inquiry of the situation was that I was seeing a lot of things on social media as far as Twitter and Facebook. I then started to ask around --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: Seeing what, bragging that this had happened or eyewitnesses to it or by the perpetrators, the alleged perpetrators?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of the perpetrators were bragging as well as people that were at the party.
AMANPOUR: And then you went to the doctor?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did go to the doctor -- I think it was four days later. I did not get a rape kit at the point --
AMANPOUR: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- at that point in time, you know, at this -- I didn't really know what happened. I didn't -- I just wanted it to go away.
AMANPOUR: Who are the people who you accuse of doing this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These people are members of the football team. One of them was due to graduate and commission as of May 21st. Another one of those individuals is in my class, a classmate of mine. And the other one is a class below me.
AMANPOUR: So the one who was due to graduate didn't?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
AMANPOUR: Is that a punishment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is just until the investigation closes.
AMANPOUR: Despite what happened to you and the fact that superiors knew because of all the chatter that was going on, you were still -- I believe -- forced to go to football games. That was the culture, those were the rules.
And you had to sit and watch these people or sit with them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Well, I mean, what were you thinking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told me you kind of have to pick your battles. So I was forced to go to a football game and watch them as they were living their dreams and going on about life as if they had done nothing wrong.
AMANPOUR: You talk about an investigation. But you, A, refused the rape kit and, B, did not formally complain about this for a long, long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Simply getting the situation, just the shock of the situation itself, was pretty devastating. Following that, I was completely ostracized. To me, I just wanted it to be over with. I was scared. Many of the -- my actual attackers had approached me and told me not to say anything.
AMANPOUR: Or else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They -- it was very forcefully put that I shouldn't be saying anything, that that's what's best and if I wanted this to go away, this was the only way.
AMANPOUR: You talk about sexual assault; you talk about this situation.
Do you believe you were raped?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do believe I was raped. I know that I did not make that decision to sexually interact with these individuals.
AMANPOUR: And then we read that -- and you've just said you chose to drink. You were underage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
AMANPOUR: And you obviously drank far too much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: You were drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: You then got punished for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was demoted.
AMANPOUR: So you were demoted as a punishment for drinking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Were the attackers, the people you accused of attacking you, have they faced any punishment or any retribution at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The attackers were not -- did not receive any punishment until well after football season had ended. They had received punishment for lying to the criminal investigators to the case. But just a very small offense.
AMANPOUR: For about nine months, you did not want to bring this to a formal investigation or a formal case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Then in the last six months, you've decided to formally complain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Where does it stand now, your legal case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the beginning, it wasn't that I didn't want the case to go forward. I didn't feel like it was in my interest. The Academy said that they could not guarantee my safety, you know.
AMANPOUR: Your superiors told you they couldn't guarantee your safety?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They can't promise me anything. Their hands are tied.
AMANPOUR: Tied by what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess circumstances, you know, he said versus she said. Just various things that play into it. There was absolutely nothing that could 100 percent guarantee anything. I didn't feel comfortable coming forward.
But I still had hope. They had had all the information. They had enough evidence that had said that I was substantially incapacitated as well as sexual interactions with two admitted statements by the individuals.
AMANPOUR: They admitted?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: So they admitted and they said -- how did they exonerate themselves?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Given that I wasn't choosing to speak, they had stated it was consensual.
AMANPOUR: Was it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
AMANPOUR: What made you decide to talk now and to bring this to a criminal case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this point in time, this individual would have been commissioned and become an officer in our military had I not pushed the issue. To me, I think that's very unnerving.
AMANPOUR: What is your reaction -- you know that Senator Gillibrand of New York and other bipartisan members of Congress propose to take these issues out of the chain of command. That has been brushed aside this week.
And, indeed, the Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has said, "I don't personally believe that you can eliminate the command structure in the military from this process, because it is that culture. It's the institution. It's the people within the institution that have to fix the problem."
Is he right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From my own personal experience, I would say that I don't necessarily agree with that.
While I do understand that within my chain of command my superintendent, which is the head of our institution, had legal advisers, that are lawyers, that are qualified to make this decision, but he has the ultimate decision, I don't think that he is qualified to make that decision. And I think that it's very disheartening to me that they would shoot something like that down.
AMANPOUR: The Pentagon said that in the military some 26,000 acts of sexual assault occurred. But perhaps there are many, many more than go unreported.
Do you think that's the case from your experience in the Navy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. People don't feel comfortable coming forward just because you know, I've had people approach me, telling me that they don't feel -- they wouldn't come forward if they were in my shoes. They see everything that I've been through.
And for no guarantee that you'll get justice and you put your career on the line. You put everything on the line. Your friends, your associates, your colleagues and for what? For a gamble that maybe you'll get justice.
Prior to this, you know, I felt very strongly about the situation. But you'll never understand what a victim actually goes through until you've walked in their shoes and you know, I have seen it. This isn't the first time I've seen it. And it -- I'm sure it won't be the last time. And I really hope that maybe we can get some change.
AMANPOUR: Thank you very much indeed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: This picture might give you a sense of what she and other women are up against. This is the leadership culture of the United States military. We asked the Naval Academy for response to her case and they told us, quote, that they are "monitoring the progress of this investigation and evaluating the appropriate options for adjudication."
Beyond that, they had no comment on what is an ongoing investigation.
An after a break, the father who's the undisputed monarch and now the son is fighting for democracy, Reza Pahlavi is the son of the deposed Shah of Iran and he'll join me from Paris to discuss the Iranian elections. Back in a moment.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. It is the end of an era in Iran, one that much of the world welcomes, the end of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's presidency. Elections Friday will determine his successor.
After eight years, he's been the manifestly belligerent face of Iran, raising the nuclear issue to the point of potential conflict with the West and presiding over a massive crackdown on those limited personal freedoms at home.
The state has imposed a brutal crackdown to crush the uprising that followed Ahmadinejad's reelection back in 2009. That was widely viewed as fraudulent. The demonstrations then were the biggest popular threat to the Iranian regime since the 1979 revolution.
Unwilling to see even a hint of that this time around, Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khomeini, has carefully stacked the deck, approving only eight candidates, most of them hardline conservatives. Out of almost 700 who had registered to run.
Controversially, a former president and a founding father of the Iranian revolution, Hashemi Rafsanjani, was also banned from running. He had taken up the mantle of the reform movement.
Even so, one candidate, Hassan Rouhani, has become the new hope for reformers. His support appears to be surging in the final days of the campaign.
The Islamic revolution brought down the Shah of Iran who was a staunch U.S. and Western ally. That was 34 years ago. And in a moment, I'll speak to his son, Reza Pahlavi, about whether it's even possible to have a legitimate and meaningful opposition movement in Iran today.
But first, for the very latest on this election campaign, Erin Burnett joins me from Tehran.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Erin, good to see you there in Tehran. You've been to some of the rallies.
What can you tell us about the mood, about the sort of sense of excitement or not?
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well, you know, what's interesting, Christiane is, you know, today, the day before the campaigning they had to take all the signs down. So it seemed a little bit quieter.
But last night when we went to a couple of rallies, there were thousands of people and they were very passionate. And then you saw people sort of impromptu gatherings on the street, chanting.
We went to a rally for Saeed Jalili, the nuclear negotiator. And that one, Christiane, was really fascinating. He had the parents of a nuclear scientist who had been murdered. And that sparked chants among the thousands there for -- of "Death to America, Death to Israel."
Yet we were there and they knew we were American and people were very happy to answer our questions and to talk to us. So it seemed more of a rallying cry than anything else. But obviously he's been running, Jalili, as more of a hardliner.
We went to a rally for Mayor Ghalibaf, the mayor of Tehran. He also has been talking about resistance and his supporters were flooding the streets and all sorts of flyers around, also very passionate.
AMANPOUR: And I know you also went to headquarters of the reform candidate, Rouhani. I just wanted to get a sense of what it felt there, because some have said that there's a last-minute surge for him, but also people in Iran, of course, are so worried about the terrible economy, which has been brought on because of government mismanagement and, of course, sanctions.
What are people telling you about what their main hope is out of this election?
BURNETT: People were -- I mean, it was interesting, Christiane; they were talking about the economy. I mean, we were at a store today; you know, prices have doubled and even for things like watermelon, you know, Iran's one of the largest producers of watermelon in the world.
But with labor costs going up and the problems of inflation, even prices for things made locally have surged. People's incomes haven't gone up as much. So they're very worried about the economy.
But definitely we also got the feel from people that there is a feeling, certainly among supporters of some of the more hardline candidates, about resistance against the Western arrogant powers, as some people told me.
So people are worried -- and it's very much a focus in terms of the negotiations with the West.
And at the Rouhani headquarters, Christiane, it seemed almost Western to me, you know, I obviously was covering the U.S. elections up in New Hampshire at the campaign headquarters. This one felt a little bit more like that, a lot of people, groundworkers trying to pass out flyers. And the campaign manager said something to me totally opposite of what I'd heard at the Saeed Jalili rally.
He said, "We are open to talking with the United States," maybe not immediately after the election if we win, but I believe that Rouhani would be willing to do that.
So even though everyone says there will be no policy change here, no matter who wins, there are some divergent points of view.
AMANPOUR: There are indeed.
Erin, thanks very much. Obviously we're watching closely and we'll talk to you again tomorrow, the day of the elections.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks, Christiane.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Now as I said, Iran's Islamic revolutionaries deposed the ruling monarch, the Shah of Iran 34 years ago and formed the Islamic republic that has been heard and felt around the world.
The Shah fled to Egypt, where he died of cancer a year later. And his eldest son, the former crown prince, Reza Pahlavi, moved to the United States and now lives between here and Europe, where he's trying to breathe life into a meaningful opposition to the ayatollahs.
Reza Pahlavi is the spokesman for the Iranian National Council and he joins me now from Paris.
Welcome to the program. Thanks for joining me.
REZA PAHLAVI, SON OF THE LAST SHAH OF IRAN: Good evening, Christiane. Good to be on your show.
AMANPOUR: So let me ask you, you are called the spokesman for this movement. What are you realistically trying to achieve at this point?
PAHLAVI: The essence of this council really started at the advent of what happened back in 2009, a movement which saw over 3.5 million Iranians in silent protest defying the regime and showing their willingness and eagerness to have a democratic situation at home, which, unfortunately, is not achievable under this regime.
Therefore, this council was formed with the sole aim to lead a campaign that demands as a main goal circumstances in our country in which we can hold free and fair elections as described by the interparliamentary union, which clearly depicts what circumstances has to exist in Iran or anywhere else in order to have true elections.
Unfortunately, under this regime, elections had never been either free or fair and the constitution of this regime prevents any kind of reforms that would make this possible as long as it is in place.
AMANPOUR: So obviously you're outside Iran. What kind of support do you have that could actually even affect any change from within? Describe to me who are the supporters of your movement.
PAHLAVI: What we did, Christiane, for the first time in the annals of Iranian history, and in fact the opposition is that this time we started grassroots. The first draft that forms the principles upon which this council was founded in fact came out of Evin Prison (ph).
We talked longly (sic) with dissidents and political prisoners and about 44 drafts later, we had a 16-point agreement that gathers people who are basically secular democrats from left or right, monarchists, republicans, former members of the MEK, former members of the Iran diplomatic corps who are part of the Green Embassy or part of this movement.
It is, in that sense, quite diverse. It is not ideologically based. It doesn't pretend to be an alternative nor does it claim to be representative of the people. All that it does is to promote a campaign that asks for circumstances that it -- that has to occur in our country.
As such, the representation was very wide. We had about 25,000 people who participated in signing this document, half of them from Iran.
And we had the first time ever elections that basically nominated about 500 people to constitute the first council which was about two months ago here in Paris on the 27th and 28th of April, out of which 35 people were elected as the Supreme Council and a nine-member political office. And I was also elected as a spokesman for this council.
AMANPOUR: All right. Let me --
PAHLAVI: And we are directly in contact with people at home.
AMANPOUR: -- let me ask you about something that certainly we hear a lot from people inside Iran. They want better relations with the outside world, including the U.S., including the West. And they also want their nuclear rights to be respected.
If there was a change, how would you propose dealing with reopening relations with the West and maintaining what they believe is their right for nuclear enrichment?
I'm not talking about weapons; I'm talking about their right for nuclear enrichment.
PAHLAVI: Well, obviously, Christiane, when you have a regime that has been untransparent (sic) and ultimately untrustworthy from the outside world's point of view, not to mention what it does to its own citizens, there's a sharp contrast between a democratic, secular, parliamentary democracy, which, in essence, is -- has as an objective to serve the best interests of the nation while having the best possible relations with the international community.
To make a long story short, I think that in one stroke we can eliminate everything that this regime has been a problem for, whether it is (inaudible) citizens as well as the international community, be it the nuclear agenda, terrorism, support for radical groups, and instead, once you will have a democratic system in Iran, which will be truly representative of our people's aspiration, you can rest assure that none of these current threats will ever exist.
And at the same time, it will be truly responsible government that will look at the best interests of our country, its sovereignty and its self-determination.
AMANPOUR: In our last minute, I want to ask you, you know, there's a lot of talk about a potential strike on Iran's nuclear facilities.
Would you support such a thing? And what do you think that would do to what you want, which is a democratic movement?
PAHLAVI: Well, I've always been against any form of foreign attack. As a matter of fact, it is one of the principles that we adhere to in our council, that we're against any form of military attacks on our country, from outside or from anywhere else.
We believe that the change has to occur as a result of civil disobedience and non-violence. We call for national reconciliation and amnesty. We have also called with that respect that the world to say that diplomacy has failed and war is certainly not a solution. It's lose-lose. Only the regime will benefit from it. And democracy will certainly be harmed.
The best ways to this time proactively support a democratic people of Iran by helping them in this campaign since the regime has refused to voluntarily leave the scene.
As a matter of fact, it's important; we have asked people this time to proactively cast their votes not to the ballots of this regime that is not to be trusted, but to send their vote that we want free elections to all the embassies in Tehran or foreign democratic governments, to the office of the United Nations, so that the world can hear that ultimately Iranians want to have free elections as the only means to measure what they truly want for themselves in the future.
AMANPOUR: Reza Pahlavi, thank you so much for joining me from Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And after a break, a final thought on these elections and the role of human rights, when we come back.
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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, as Iranians prepare to go to the polls some human rights advocates outside the country have already chosen their favorite candidate. So imagine a world where a woman is elected Iran's next president.
The candidate's name is Zahra, the heroine of a hugely popular graphic novel. Human rights groups are promoting her virtual candidacy not only to lobby for a fair election, but for equal rights for Iranian women. While Iranian women do have the right to vote, to work, to drive, to get an education and to be elected to parliament, they cannot run for the presidency.
And in a court of law, they are considered half the value of a man, literally, as I've reported often from Iran.
Zahra's campaign may be virtual, but very real women that I've met there have been fighting the good fight for years, like Shirin Ebadi, for instance, a lawyer, Iran's first female judge under the Shah and as of 2003, Nobel Peace laureate, a prize that she won for fighting for women's and children's rights. And yet as she told me, she, too, is subject to injustice in the court system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIRIN EBADI, NOBEL PEACE LAUREATE (through translator): I have been a judge and a lawyer for 35 years. I teach law at university and I won the Nobel Peace Prize. But the court here will not admit my testimony unless it's backed by another woman. But the man, who cleans my office, can testify on his own, even though he's illiterate.
AMANPOUR: In a fundamentalist society, can there be women's rights?
EBADI (through translator): Even our men can enjoy equal rights, only with a modern interpretation of Islam. Fundamentalism, for most, are male- dominated culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And I also met Shadi Ghadirian, an Iranian photographer and now an internationally acclaimed artist. She uses her camera to expose the stereotypes of a culture that all too often squashes the aspirations of its women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: What are you trying to say with this? What's the message?
To me it looks like women have a boring life. All they do is make tea, iron clothes, brush the floor and (inaudible).
SHADI GHADIRIAN, PHOTOGRAPHER (from captions): It's somehow an objection that to the women that always they repeat these things every day and they don't think about it. They are like a machine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Like a machine.
This election may change the man at the top in Tehran, but it's only when all Iranian citizens, including its women, truly have the opportunity to lead as well as dream that real progress will come to the country.
And that's it for tonight's program. Thanks for watching and goodbye from New York.
END
