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Amanpour

The World Gets First Glimpse Of New Royal; New Chance To Restart Talks Between Israel And Palestine

Aired July 23, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour, reporting tonight from outside Parliament in London. And if I'm quiet for a second, you can hear Big Ben chiming 8:00 pm in the evening.

And it was about 45 minutes ago, in fact, that the country and the world saw what they were waiting for, and that was the glimpse, the first glimpse of the little boy who could one day be king.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: . royal heir in the United Kingdom and the Duchess of Cambridge smiling, looking so well (inaudible). A big smile from Prince William, so proud.

(APPLAUSE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): That was our Max Foster, describing the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, both who were wearing baby blue in honor of their new son, perhaps. They left the hospital, as I say, about 45 minutes ago. They shared their feelings about becoming new parents to the assembled crowd.

WILLIAM, DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE: Very emotional.

CATHERINE, DUCHESS OF CAMBRIDGE: Yes, very emotional (inaudible) I think any parent (inaudible) probably (inaudible) know what this feeling feels like.

WILLIAM: Very special.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So after that, Prince William and Kate, they turned around; they went back into the hospital and they brought out the baby again in the car seat, put it into the car and sped off to Kensington Palace with the new prince in tow in, as I say, the back of the car.

It was a scene that reminded so many people of 31 years ago, when Princess Diana, who is William's mother, late mother, and Prince Charles, as they came out of the very same doors, the very same Lindell (ph) Wing of St. Mary's Hospital in London and presented Prince William to the assembled crowd.

And of course, it was a very different media storm at the time. Lots of photographers; only two cameramen, though. And look at the difference here. Prince Charles came out holding William and then handed the baby to his mother, Diana.

In this case, it was Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, who came out holding her baby and then handed it over to the father, Prince William.

So let's get a lot more of that detail and color from Max Foster, who's outside the hospital, and he watched the whole story emerge.

Max, thank you so much, because you've been there for such a long time, waiting for this moment.

I think that we heard so much shouting when the couple came out that you couldn't really hear everything that they said.

What did William and Kate say?

FOSTER: Well, he was joking around and this is, you know, you get to know William and he sometime -- well, he has a very difficult relationship with the press. And this was his worst nightmare, I have to say, the biggest bank of press that you could ever imagine.

But this was William, emotional, happy; he coped with it really well. So he was joking around about the baby not having -- well, the baby having more hair than him; luckily, he's got Kate's looks or Catherine's looks.

So it was a very happy family unit. He looked more alive, more himself than I can really remember. He's taken to it very naturally.

I think what was really interesting -- I thought it was interesting in the first place that William was there throughout the labor; he stayed over here. But that process, I mean, you pointed it out, and you thought it was interesting as well, that the way the Duchess handed William the baby, still to be named. That was a shared process. They would have thought about how to do that.

And I think the comments were pretty freeflow. And then you saw him taking the car seat and putting it in the car; he didn't get any aides to do that. He's got plenty of aides that could have helped with that, if he was nervous. And then he drove off.

I think this is him, saying there, hands on. Or is it him saying the hands on? He just is hands on and she's hands on. This is a little unit and they're going to be very tight, I think, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Max, tell me about that moment when they came out with the car seat. You know, he could have put the baby in on the side that was right by the steps, but he took the trouble to walk around, presenting the child again to the public and showing a very public, ordinary father, hands on, putting his child in the back of the car and then jumping into the front seat. That took people by surprise.

FOSTER: Yes, it did, because you know, he has -- I mean, he does often drive. But we all assumed that he wouldn't drive on this particular occasion, to be nervous, I mean, I remember when I had -- we had our first baby and you're so worried about driving with the baby in the back.

But that was -- he's very decisive. He's very in control of what he does. He decides what he wants to do. He would have decided he wanted to drive and he knew he was in front of the media. And I think that was a bit of a message in there.

Thank goodness, they did come out with a car seat. I have to say, Christiane, because the photographers were pretty frustrated; they couldn't get an image of the baby's face. It could have been little Prince William all over again. But when he brought the car seat 'round, they did get that image, and it's starting to appear in all of the newspapers already, on the websites, at least.

So it was a glorious moment for the photographers. They were a bit worried because of this anti-media feeling he and the Duchess have of them.

Well, tell me about that, because I couldn't help notice the roar that went up from the photographers, who seem to have been yelling for a better view of the child's face. And it really did remind me and sort of send me back many, many years to Princess Diana, who was also yelled at, as everybody knows, so often by the press.

What is this child's future when it comes to being followed, being photographed?

FOSTER: I think William and Kate are very, very private people. At the heart of that is William, Harry's involved as well. They were at that point in their lives, been chased by paparazzi when it was completely out of control. And then, of course, they do blame the paparazzi for the death of their mother. They have a very difficult relationship with the press.

But they do understand they need to work with the press to promote their causes. And they realize the longer or the older they get, the more role work they'll do, the more they'll need the media. I think when it comes to this baby, they're going to be so careful about keeping the media out, only allowing media in if there is official photo opportunity.

There will be some horse-trading here, Christiane, where there will be offer -- there will be official opportunities if you don't publish the paparazzi shots. I think they're going to be so careful about this child having a normal life, the most normal life possible because that's what (inaudible) talk to Harry and William privately, they don't think they have a normal life.

They don't know what it means to be normal. Harry says that all the time. And they want to give that to this baby. I've seen it with Kate, how William is so protective of her, wants her to have a normal life.

And if anyone comes anywhere near compromising her privacy, he goes -- you know, he goes to the lawyers; he goes to his aides. He rings us up and you saw that particularly when those topless shots came out, when they were on holiday. If he feels like that about his wife, I think he's also going to feel that about his son. You could see how bonded they were already.

AMANPOUR: Absolutely. But of course, this isn't a normal family; and their job is to be the very public face of this country.

You know, what's happened has been something amazing for this royal family over the last several years, almost since the day Kate walked in and then, of course, got engaged to William and got married. And now they have the baby and the Queen with her Jubilee.

Take us through a little bit of what kind of a breath of life -- literally -- this all is for the royal family.

FOSTER: Well, I mean, Christiane, you reported on her much more than me, that period of monarchy. Well, it was almost under threat after Diana's death. The Queen wasn't seen to respond properly, very, very unpopular. There were these breakups; "annus horribilis" as the Queen described it, the breakups of the relationships of her children.

It was really awful. And there was a point where the approval ratings were very, very low. And then, of course, we had Kate gradually introduced into the fold. I mean, they were boyfriend and girlfriend for a very long time, Kate and William. They had their privacy respected after those Diana years; the press had to deal with William about that.

And then gradually he introduced her. And then you had that spectacular royal wedding, and it was a ratings winner around the world. And people got engaged in that story. And what you had there was a beginning of a very simple fairy tale. And it is a fairy tale.

Kate's mother was brought up at a council house (ph). She set up her own business in a very small home that the family developed in Berkshire (ph). Her mother is a self-made millionaire, very ambitious. This is a fairy tale. I mean, they come from humble -- a humble background.

And Kate has married into the ultimate establishment position. So this is an extraordinary story. People can relate to her and they can relate to fairy tales. And they can relate to this story. And this baby is the next chapter in the story. And I think even if you're not fascinated by monarchy, you can't avoid the story. You kind of a bit interested in what happens next.

AMANPOUR: Well, exactly right. And as you were saying there, we did see the Middleton parents, Kate's parents, coming out of the hospital where they had visited her earlier today. And we close with these shots again of William and Kate and their baby.

We say thank you to you, Max Foster. And they are now home at Kensington Palace, which is right in the middle, just about, of Hyde Park, which all visitors and all Londoners know.

Now coming up is another historic moment that might be taking shape, but in the Middle East. Will Israel and the Palestinians sit down for real negotiations at long last? I'll speak with Hanan Ashrawi, a member of the PLO's executive council, when we return.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program, reporting tonight from outside Parliament, where the royal baby in London just made its global debut. And the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have now returned home to Kensington Palace. Bells around here because Westminster Abbey is just nearby, were pealing for hours today, welcoming the birth of the third in line to the throne now.

Outside the United Kingdom, though, another potentially historic moment could be shaping up and that's a chance to restart peace negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians after years and years of stalemate.

The long-stalled talks show new signs of life after at least six visits to the region and much old-fashioned shuttle diplomacy by the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who worked to narrow the gaps between both sides.

But both of them have been essentially agreeing now to talk about talks. Each side may send an envoy to Washington as early as next week. There's still, though, a long, hard and complicated road ahead, major sticking points to be overcome and bitter compromises to be made.

And even if an agreement is reached, both Israeli and Palestinian leaders say the deal must go to a referendum.

I spoke exclusively with Israel's lead negotiator, Tzipi Livni, on this program yesterday, and she told me why she's motivated to seek peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TZIPI LIVNI, ISRAELI JUSTICE MINISTER AND MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR NEGOTIATING WITH THE PALESTINIANS: I support deeply not only the idea of negotiations, but the idea of the need to end the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. This is an Israeli interest. It's not a favor to the Palestinians nor to the E.U. and not even to the President of the United States.

It is our own interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So that was the Israeli view. And tonight, we get the Palestinian voice.

Hanan Ashrawi is a long-time Palestinian peace negotiator and she a senior member of the PLO's executive council. She joined me earlier from Ramallah in the West Bank.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Hanan Ashrawi, welcome back to the program.

Thanks for joining us.

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR, ACTIVIST, AND SCHOLAR: Thank you.

It's good to be with you, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: So all eyes are on whether this peace process is going to get restarted after such a long hiatus. Now, the Arab League has endorsed U.S. Secretary of State Kerry's proposals.

Will the Palestinians go to these preliminary talks?

ASHRAWI: Well, these preliminary talks, first of all, are to establish the foundation, the basis for negotiations. And we are waiting now for the invitation from Secretary Kerry on the basis of what he is going to receive in terms of Israeli commitments.

We believe that these talks, in order to succeed, have to have certain requirements that are consistent with international law and with the integrity of peace itself as an objective rather than the process, as an end unto itself.

So I think with the Arab League acceptance, also with the initial acceptance by President Mahmoud Abbas and the groundwork that was done with Secretary Kerry, as soon as we get the assurances that are needed, I'm sure there will be preliminary talks in Washington.

AMANPOUR: Hanan, that sounds suspiciously like laying conditions. And I think everybody pretty much understands that conditions and preconditions are a non-starter.

Are you laying conditions?

Is that what the Palestinian side is going to do?

ASHRAWI: No. You see this term "conditions" has been used constantly to discredit the Palestinians as though we're doing something wrong.

Basically what we're saying is the peace process has a certain foundation and it has a basis, which was agreed upon years ago, as you know. We started in 1991. We didn't start -- we didn't go on a shipping -- on a fishing expedition or a shot in the dark. We were -- we had clear-cut criteria, 242, 338, Land for Peace, '67 boundaries.

We cannot reinvent the wheel every time a new government comes and wants to negate the agreed upon basis of negotiations.

Also, if you sign agreements, you have to honor them. If you sign agreements to release prisoners, you cannot renege on them. Or if you sign agreements to have further redeployments, you cannot say, I'm sorry, I changed my mind.

Why else would we negotiate if there are signed agreements that are not honored?

Twenty-two years in which settlements quadrupled is certainly not a clear precedent to act upon.

We really need, now, to move fast with genuine commitment, not with P.R. statements and declarations of intent, but with serious actions on the ground that are positive and constructive.

AMANPOUR: Hanan, the EU has talked about stiff measures against Israel for its settlement-building activity, cutting off funding for any activities in those settlements, for instance.

By the same token, people say the EU could cut off and stop paying --

(CROSSTALK)

ASHRAWI: Yes.

AMANPOUR: -- for the Palestinian Authority if there don't seem to be progress in these talks and toward serious negotiations.

Now, one of these issues -- and you talk about public opinion -- has always been the idea of the right of return.

And my question to you, again, has to be, will the Palestinians move beyond this notion of all or nothing, that, you know, telling the people of Palestine, that, yes, all of the 4 million or more, exiled refugee Palestinians will be able to come back and reclaim their land inside what's today Israel.

I mean, surely everybody knows that is a non-starter and it's time for you all, the politicians, to be honest with your people about this.

ASHRAWI: Well, first of all, when we talk about the Europeans, settlement activities are illegal. Annexing and stealing land which is not your own is illegal. The Europeans have been telling the Israelis, stop doing this, repeatedly, for years. This is illegal, this is counter-productive, this destroys the chances of peace. And Israel has refused.

So what Europe is doing, belatedly -- we've been talking about this since the 1970s -- is putting its money where its mouth is, telling Israel there is a price to be paid.

For the first time, Israel is feeling a slight accountability. And that's why it's smarting. It's reacting hysterically, because it has been used to acting above the law and not receiving any kind of constraint or accountability or curbs on its behavior. So that's one thing.

That's quite different from telling the Palestinians, if you do not comply with what we tell you in terms of the peace process, we will cut off funding. That smacks of blackmail.

So to tell us, you know, you have to do what we tell you now or we'll cut off funding is not at all like telling Israel you are violating the law, you are stealing other people's land and this occupation has to be costly and accountable.

Two, on the issue of the right of return, now, when you enter negotiations, you do not enter by relinquishing your people's rights and destroying your credibility with your own people. These are rights that are enshrined in international law.

We have specific U.N. resolutions, particularly 194, dealing with the Palestinian refugees' right of return. We have the Arab initiative that, in a sense, places the whole issue of refugees in a regional context, which is important, because most of the Palestinian refugees are in neighboring Arab countries.

This is a source of instability. It's a source of tremendous pain throughout the region. And this needs to be resolved in a just and legal manner.

So the Arab Peace Initiative talks about a just and agreed-upon solution to the Palestinian refugee question, we are not going to say we will start negotiations by violating international law, relinquishing the rights of the refugees. We have already given up 78 percent of historical Palestine, on which Israel is to be -- or was established.

That is a major and painful compromise. But we cannot constantly be pushed to accommodate facts that Israel has created or to relinquish rights and violate the law a priori in order to demonstrate that we are serious.

I know we are the victims and I know we are the weaker party, but we are not here addressing power politics. We are addressing a just and legal solution that would have the -- that can lay claim to permanence. This is what we need.

AMANPOUR: Hanan, of course, a just solution is what the international community requires in this regard.

But the truth of the matter is that it's always been a stumbling point --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: -- because the Palestinians are told that they can expect to come back to their homes.

I just want to ask you again, is this, again, going to be a stumbling point?

Because I don't think anybody believes that that's going to happen and many people believe that that is simply a code for wiping out Israel in terms of it being a Jewish state.

Is it not time to be honest with the Palestinian exiles in order to get the state that you so desperately want?

ASHRAWI: The refugee question is part and parcel of this whole total integrated, interconnected agreement. And it has to take place along a triple-tiered approach: one, recognition of the right and Israel's recognition and admission of its culpability; two, assuring them that their narrative is right and international law would apply to them; three, giving them the options.

The key term here is the Palestinian refugees' right to choose also. If they do not have the right to choose, if they are told, you're all going back or none of you are going back, then this means that you have deprived them of the right to choose.

They should have, because U.N. Resolution 194 talks about the right to return and/or get compensation. And some people ask for restitution.

Let's see where that goes in negotiations, once there is progress, once the framework is agreed to, once the Arab Peace Initiative is recognized. All these things, I'm sure, can be solved if there is the proper will, determination and commitment.

AMANPOUR: Hanan Ashrawi, we thank you very much for joining me.

ASHRAWI: You're most welcome.

It's my pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Hanan Ashrawi, who once was one of the lead negotiators for the Palestinians.

And as I said, I interviewed Israel's lead negotiator, Justice Minister Tzipi Livni yesterday on this program, and on our website you can catch that entire interview in which she told me that she is also trying to avoid the blame game that the both sides have been stuck in over the last years. That is all at amanpour.com.

And in a moment, history repeats itself with yet another refugee crisis in the Middle East. And tragically, it is the children of Syria who are bearing this particular burden. CNN's Mohammed Jamjoom reports when we come back.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, the birth of William and Kate's baby is a moment to be cherished, and there is that close-up picture that all the photographers were clamoring to get. One enterprising photographer did actually get the close-up and that is what so many people around the world have been waiting to see, as they would with the birth of any new baby. It's a joy for their family.

But around the world, it's children who suffer the most from the upheavals of history. I spoke earlier with Hanan Ashrawi about the tremendous pain and instability that Palestinians, including children, have experienced growing up as refugees over the last many decades.

Elsewhere in the region, right now in Syria, the worst humanitarian crisis is unfolding since Rwanda 20 years ago, and it's happening before our very eyes. More than 600,000 Syrian refugees are seeking shelter in neighboring Lebanon alone. And it's a major burden on that country and it's creating a backlash against these desperate and homeless Syrians.

So will this new generation be forced to grow up, also exiled and adrift? CNN's Mohammed Jamjoom reports from Lebanon.

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MOHAMMED JAMJOOM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Lebanon's windswept Bekaa Valley, the harsh environment is reflected in the weary faces of kids all around. Their eyes look far older than they do. No childhood spark to be seen. Smiles, few and far between.

I asked this 15-year-old girl what life's been like for her here.

"Life?" she asks, unbelievingly, as if the question were a farce.

"We manage to live," she says, "but it's nothing like before."

Tensions have worsened as some Lebanese people have even been displaced.

Take Taha's (ph) family. They say their landlord replaced them with a recently arrived Syrian family willing to pay double the rent. Their boy's anger, clear as day.

"The Syrians took our world away from us," he says. "There's nothing left for us."

His father's outrage, however, is reserved for others.

"We're not against Syrians," he tells me. "We have to help the refugees. But our government has to take care of us, too.

"My son here, now he has to work, too. It's awful."

His oldest son just sits and stares, hopelessness and exhaustion apparent. He isn't just drained. Like so many Syrian children, he's also desperate - - Mohammed Jamjoom, CNN, Bekaa Valley, Lebanon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Something to think about tonight and that it is -- that is it for our program. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.

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