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Standing Up to ISIS Militants; Ukraine Crisis Leads Agenda at NATO Summit; Rasmussen-Poroshenko News Conference; Imagine a World

Aired September 04, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, make or break for NATO as the alliance meets for one of its most critical summits ever, a

press conference is expected soon as leaders search for a joint strategy to confront Russian aggression and defeat ISIS terror. I speak to the Iraqi

president, Fuad Masum.

FUAD MASUM, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): From here and through this interview with you, I request the support for Iraq to fight those

terrorists.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Plus more sanctions for Moscow: Putin's defiance in Ukraine unites NATO. My interview with Swedish Foreign Minister Carl

Bildt.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

Tonight the most crucial NATO summit in recent times has gotten underway in Wales with the two strongest and closest transatlantic allies insisting

that, together, the alliance will be standing up to Russia and confronting ISIS.

And we start with ISIS. Under withering criticism for lacking a clear strategy and with their own citizens, executed and increasingly threatened

by ISIS, American President Barack Obama and the British Prime Minister David Cameron penned an article in the "London Times," laying out their

mission to form a coalition and a clear goal to stop ISIS.

While a spokesman for the family of Steven Sotloff, the second American journalist to be beheaded, directly challenges the self-declared caliph,

the terror group's leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARAK BARFI, SOTLOFF FAMILY SPOKESMAN (through translator): I have a message for Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The month of Ramadan is the month of

mercy. Where is your mercy? I am here debating you with kindness. I don't have a sword in my hand and I am ready for your answer.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Speaking there directly in Arabic, but even if the two leaders at the NATO summit succeed in pulling together a broad

coalition, success against ISIS hinges on whether Iraq itself can hang together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: With all Iraqis, Sunni, Shiite and Kurd, fairly represented in government. From Baghdad, Iraq's new president, Fuad Masum, joined me to

discuss the challenge to promise that a new government would be announced in a couple of days and to say how he's trying to get the country's

fractious political house in order while, at the same time, fighting off the Islamic State.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: President Masum, welcome to the program from Baghdad.

MASUM: (Speaking Arabic).

AMANPOUR: Mr. President, NATO is meeting right now. Let me play for you something that President Obama said about ISIS just ahead of this NATO

summit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our objective is clear and that is to degrade and destroy ISIL so that it's no longer a threat, not

just to Iraq but also the region and to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Mr. President, Barack Obama is pledging to destroy the ISIS threat.

Is that possible, do you think?

How can they do it?

MASUM (through translator): Certainly. There must be some --

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(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Well, as I said, we were expecting some breaking news and the NATO summit with the secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen and the

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, the press conference after day one is now underway.

ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN, SECRETARY GENERAL, NATO: Russia is now fighting against Ukraine in Ukraine, Russian troops and Russian tanks are attacking

the Ukrainian forces and while talking about peace, Russia has not made one single step to make peace possible. Instead of deescalating the crisis,

Russia has only deepened it.

What is happening in Ukraine has serious implications for the security and stability of the whole Euro-Atlantic area. We stand united in our support

of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders.

We strongly condemn Russia's repeated violations of international law. Russia must stop its aggressive actions against Ukraine, withdraw its

thousands of troops from Ukraine and the border regions and stop supporting the separatists in Ukraine.

We call on Russia to reverse its illegal and illegitimate, self-declared annexation of Crimea, which we do not and will not recognize.

This is the first time since the end of the -- of World War II that one European country has tried to grab another's territory by force. Europe

must not turn away from the rule of law to the rule of the strongest. This is vital for peace and security in the world.

Ukraine has been an important and distinctive NATO partner for many years. We highly value of Ukraine's contributions to our operations and the NATO

response force. Ukraine have stood by NATO. Now in these difficult times, NATO stands by Ukraine.

Our support is concrete and tangible. We have established a comprehensive and tailored package of measures so that Ukraine can better provide for its

own security.

We will focus on cyber defense, logistics and command control and communications. We will also help with rehabilitation for troops injured

in the conflict.

We will provide advice to help Ukraine with defense reforms and allies will assist Ukraine with around 15 million euro through NATO. And in addition

to that, we have heard several announcements of bilateral assistance, financially and in other ways.

An independent, sovereign and stable Ukraine firmly committed to democracy and the rule of law is key to Euro-Atlantic security. That is NATO's goal

and I know that that is your goal too, Mr. President.

PETRO POROSHENKO, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Thank you very much indeed, Secretary General, your excellencies, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm really glad to let you know that we have opened a very substantial discussion in NATO-Ukraine Commission summit today. I never feel such a

strong, enormous support that all the leaders of the countries, head of the government and the representatives of the people of the NATO member states

as it was demonstrated today for Ukraine. It is definitely a landmark event at the highest level during the 20-year history of the partnership

between Ukraine and NATO.

This partnership has always been a central factor for the international and regional security and stability, the security and stability which are

brutally undermined by Russian aggression. And every single head of state and head of the government stress the importance of unity and solidarity in

Ukraine -- with Ukraine that NATO should demonstrate today.

From the very beginning of this hostility, alliance has been standing by Ukraine, supporting it politically and practically to the maximum extent

possible. This stance was referenced (ph) today by head of states and government of NATO, member states today was highly valued and we are also

are grateful to NATO and individual allies for the practical help and assistance provided to Ukraine in the recent months, humanitarian

assistance of the civilian population affected by the armed conflict, advisory support, which has already worked for Ukraine, medical treatment

of the injured Ukrainian servicemen, et cetera.

At the meeting, many allies declared additional practical support to Ukraine to be provided on the bilateral basis, including commitments to

contribute newly established defense capacity-building trust funds (ph) and also which is very important to rehabilitate the injured Ukrainians

servicemen, bilateral military technical cooperation on non-lethal and lethal items. A friend in need is a friend indeed and that was a very

strong demonstration of the solidarity of Ukraine.

Completely new security situation created by this aggression calls for our joint action to counter the emerging security challenges, including the

(inaudible) warfare threat, and thus shape a new strategic framework of the NATO-Ukraine cooperation. We had a frank exchange of views on current and

future NATO-Ukrainian relations in this new security environment.

We agreed that our further cooperation will be focused on achieving full interoperability between Ukraine and NATO, and developing joint

capabilities in military defense and security sectors. We will strengthen our intensive cooperation with NATO in defense and security sector through

the development and capacity-building programs focusing on reform of Ukrainian armed forces and other security structures and elements.

The second important element of the new NATO-Ukraine cooperation strategic framework is Ukraine participation in partnership interoperability

initiative. This will allow us to maintain a high level of the interopability between the Ukraine and NATO forces, achieved through the

continuous participation of our national contingent in the NATO-led mission and operating joint military exercises with NATO response force.

Last but not least element of our new framework -- further deepening of NATO-Ukraine (inaudible) partnership. We consider this partnership to be

an integral part of Ukraine-European integration course. (inaudible) commitment (ph) with the implementing of wide-ranging E.U. integration

related reform, Ukraine will further pursue the goal of the (inaudible) national program for NATO-Ukraine cooperation, along with other existing

tools and mechanisms.

Such an approach will create necessary synergy between Ukraine, European integration and (inaudible) cooperation (inaudible).

Thank you very much for your attention.

(UNKNOWN): We'll start with Wun Yen (ph).

QUESTION: (inaudible) Ukrainian News Agency, Wun Yen (ph). I have a question for both high representative (ph).

For Ukrainian president, how do -- what is your vision for Ukrainian wait to become a NATO member? Do you have any timeframe?

And for secretary general, how NATO can help Ukraine to become member of NATO?

Thank you.

POROSHENKO: If you're looking for the annual program for cooperation with NATO, so most significant part of this reform dedicated not only to the

security sector, but to the economy, rule of law, anti-corruption and (inaudible). And I think that this is a key important factor for Ukraine,

to demonstrate the great achievement in this reform.

And that's why I said that the -- the war in the east of the country is not excuse for not providing the reform in the country. And that's why next

week, we will present it -- the program of the reform which was developed by the -- in the strong cooperation with the European Union and NATO.

And I think that the new parliamentary election will help us a lot for accelerating the reform process. And when -- when the country would be

adequate to the criteria for the membership, the Ukrainian people will decide when and how it happens.

RASMUSSEN: And let me take off on that because it is exactly for the Ukrainian people to decide and the Ukrainian political leadership to decide

how to develop its further future relationship with NATO. What -- whatever decision, it is of utmost importance to improve our ability to work and

operate together. And this is exactly the reason why we are focusing on reforming and modernizing the Ukrainian armed forces, develop the security

sector, raise standards to NATO level. And that will be a focal point within the NATO-Ukraine commission and the annual national program and the

trust funds we have decided to establish.

(UNKNOWN): Kiev Post (ph), please.

QUESTION: (inaudible) from Ukrainian Daily (inaudible).

My question to secretary general. Secretary General, what (inaudible) military options (inaudible) the supply of lethal military equipment to

Ukrainians? How can the Ukrainian crisis -- indeed, it's not Ukrainian crisis, it's Russian aggression. (inaudible) how can be this Russian

forces (inaudible) back or put back to their border to Russia and Crimea can be (inaudible) back to Ukrainian -- how can this be a result without

military option -- without supplying military equipment for Ukrainian -- badly needed for Ukrainian forces?

RASMUSSEN: Honestly speaking, I don't think anyone would like war or armed conflict to solve this issue. We do believe that the best way forward

would be to find a political solution. And to facilitate such a political solution, I firmly believe that the international community must respond

determinedly if Russia were to intervene further in Ukraine -- respond through deeper, broader, tougher economic sanctions that would definitely

hurt Russian economy and isolate Russia further.

(UNKNOWN): Channel One-Plus-One (ph).

QUESTION: (THROUGH TRANSLATOR) (inaudible) question for Ukrainian president (inaudible) Ukraine (inaudible). Excuse me.

... allies about supply for Ukraine of weapons. Are we talking non-lethal weapons, high-precision weapons, lethal assets? Are there any agreement to

that effect? And can you specify what you said about 15 million euros, which are supposed to come to Ukraine, and what they are going to be spent

on?

POROSHENKO: (THROUGH TRANSLATOR) First of all, I would like to thank all the countries that participated in today's meeting for their very strong

support and help, including the financial support for the four trust funds which primarily deal with important areas of Ukraine's security.

This is about improvement of logistics, the improvement of command and control systems, the improvement of communications, and cyber defense.

There are individual countries who undertook coordination and decided to be the lead nations within those (inaudible) the countries who made their

commitments to support the funds financially.

Apart from that, basically each country spoke about the result of our bilateral consultations in the way of assisting Ukraine. This primarily is

related to military-technical cooperation, both in the area of non-lethal and lethal weapons, including high-precision weapons. Individual countries

undertook to help Ukraine rehabilitate the wounded servicemen. Some countries undertook to supply medical equipment and medication. And as you

can see, the scope of cooperation on the bilateral level with individual allies is extremely broad.

I would like to emphasize once again that in the final resolution, there will be words about encouraging bilateral cooperation, including in the

military and technical field.

Thank you.

(UNKNOWN): (inaudible) in the back.

QUESTION: Jim Nuger (ph) from Bloomberg. I'm right here.

First a question for President Poroshenko about the Minsk talks tomorrow. What -- how do you see the prospects for an actual ceasefire? And why are

you entering this process now? Don't you fear this would leave (ph) you at the present conflict?

And if I could ask the secretary general to assess Mr. Putin's peace initiative. Is it genuine or a smokescreen?

POROSHENKO: Look, Ukraine is fighting for peace. Ukraine was not initiator of war. Ukraine are object of the aggression. And we try to do

our best for immediate stop the aggression and to immediate stop the fire.

Why? Because this is exactly Ukraine who pay the highest price every single day -- losing the lives of their soldiers, innocent civilians. And

me, as the president of Ukraine are ready to do my best to stop the war.

And why I have a, I can say careful optimism for tomorrow meeting of the trilateral contact (ph) group in Minsk, because beforehand it was the

statement of the Russian authorities and the Russian president, and it was in response, the statement of their leaders of so-called Ukansk-Dandeniesk

People Republic (ph), that they are ready for immediate cease-fire.

And now it is very important to have the support of the OEC (ph), for the monitoring and verifying nations, and to immediate release the hostages

which is legally (ph) kept by the terrorists and put the situation under control on the Ukrainian-Russian border and withdraw all the Russian

troops.

I think this is a very tough challenge before the very important political negotiation, take into account that the question of the Ukrainian

sovereignty, Ukrainian territorial integrity and Ukrainian independence is not a question for negotiation.

RASMUSSEN: If recent statements from President Putin represent a genuine effort to find a political solution, I would welcome it, because that's

exactly what we need, a constructive political process.

However, what counts is what is actually happening on the ground. So it remains to be seen what it is.

And I have to say that previously we have seen similar statements and initiatives, and they have actually just been a smokescreen for continued

Russian destabilization of the situation in Ukraine.

So, based on experience, we have to be cautious in our assessment, but, again, let me say that if we are witnessing genuine efforts to find a

political solution, I would welcome it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much. Good evening.

AMANPOUR: Well, that is the end of the press conference there in Wales, in Newport, Wales, after the first day of the NATO summit and it was between

the NATO secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, and the Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko.

Of course, the Russian aggression against Ukraine was topping the agenda there. And you heard from both Rasmussen and Poroshenko a whole litany and

a list of new measures and strengthening existing measures between Ukraine and NATO. Obviously NATO and Ukraine are not formal members, but there is

a partnership between them and we heard a lot of talk about increasing that financial, military help, rehabilitating -- it was said several times -- of

injured Ukrainian personnel.

Very, very importantly, President Poroshenko was asked about his views on the possibility of a cease-fire being reached with pro-Russian rebel

leaders after talks that are due to be held in Minsk, the capital of Belarus, tomorrow.

President Poroshenko said, "I am always optimistic. I'm particularly optimistic at this point because I am always fighting for Ukraine's

survival and sovereignty."

And Ukraine is paying the highest price for this ongoing incursion in terms of Ukrainian soldiers and other civilians being killed and in terms of

obvious the increasing instability and the continued instability of Eastern Ukraine and, in fact, the whole Ukrainian region.

At the very beginning of the press conference, Anders Fogh Rasmussen again listed all the violations that Russia had made, continued to talk about the

illegal and self-declared annexation of Crimea that he said the West and the world would never, ever accept. He also talked about needing new and

tougher sanctions if this -- if this cease-fire didn't work and unless Russia shows itself to be genuine about trying to stabilize this in a

political manner.

In any event, that was what those two leaders talked about. The summit continues for another day and not just Ukraine and Russia topping the

agenda but also the desire now for world leaders, President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron, to try to figure out a joint strategy to confront and, in

their words, defeat the ISIS terror.

We're going to take a break and we'll be back with more afterwards.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. Now we have just wrapped up a press conference in Wales between the Ukrainian president, Petro

Poroshenko, and the NATO secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen. The aggression of Russia against Ukraine and NATO's ability to try to confront

and stand up to this has, of course, taken center stage during this summit.

Many have called the summit one of the most crucial of NATO's recent summits. So what they have been saying is that Russia needs to reverse

what Anders Fogh Rasmussen called its illegal, self-declared, illegitimate annexation of Crimea and to withdraw its troops and stop destabilizing

Eastern Ukraine.

For his part, the Ukraine president welcomes increased support from NATO on all fronts and said that he was very keen to work out a cease-fire. He

said that he was cautiously optimistic, that perhaps some move towards a cease-fire could be reached with the pro-Russian rebels when everybody, the

trilateral commission, as it calls, is meeting in Minsk, the capital of Belarus tomorrow.

Now with the twin battles against this Russian aggression and of course against ISIS terror dominating this NATO summit, NATO has a new burst of

energy and relevance.

Earlier, I spoke to the Swedish Foreign Minister, Carl Bildt, who explained all of this from the summit in Wales and who told me that unless Russia

does decrease and reverse its aggression, there will be tough new sanctions against Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Bildt, welcome back to the program.

CARL BILDT, SWEDISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: Obviously the crisis between Russia and Ukraine is taking center stage.

Has this summit yet produced anything to suggest there might be a strategy to confront Russia or to get some kind of political agreement between the

two?

BILDT: Well, we are trying to understand what can be done in order to stop the Russians. I mean, there's a Russian sort of peace plan -- so-called --

on the table that sort of lacks critical components.

But whether there will be a cease-fire or not, there are rumors of that. But so far, we don't see anything in the Russian behavior that indicates

that they're intending to stop.

AMANPOUR: What can NATO do and what must it do for Russia to even take your meeting seriously?

BILDT: I think Russia should look at the combined international response. It's not only NATO and the political response coming out of here; it's also

the sanctions discussions and decisions that have come out of the European Union tomorrow. It's also the financial support, the IMF, that we are

giving to Ukraine.

We are determined to support Ukraine. And we are determined to be very strict against Russia if it continues the policy of aggression.

Over time, I think this should make an impact.

AMANPOUR: Well, let me just put to you, then ,what the Ukrainian charge d'affaires told me right here in the studio a couple of days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRII KUZMENKO, HEAD OF UKRAINIAN EMBASSY IN LONDON: So this is open challenge for the existing order. And by only the means of total response

of all the countries, of all the world community, we can stop the aggression and halt it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: He seems to be saying, Mr. Bildt, that actually the world isn't united and you're not yet serious about the message you're sending to

Russia.

BILDT: I think he has a point in the sense that he's taking time for everyone to wake up, what is happening. I think things have changed

lately. MH17 was clearly something that changed the picture for a lot of countries. And subsequently what we've seen during the last few weeks is

that Russia has been inserting regular Russian forces into Ukraine.

I think that has been a wakeup call. And I think we now see in terms of the discussion inside the European Union, for example, a much stronger

response than was the case earlier. Perhaps we should have done it earlier. But we are doing it now.

AMANPOUR: What will happen? What is that strong response?

BILDT: Well, I mean, we are -- we are now (INAUDIBLE) increase sanctions and what is now discussed in Brussels -- and I hope decisions will be

taken; I think they will be taken tomorrow -- are fairly substantial measures. They're going to have fairly substantial impact on critical

sectors of the Russian economy.

AMANPOUR: Can you give me any more details?

BILDT: No, since discussions are ongoing.

But it's going to be an extension of what is already happening. But it's going to be deeper and more significant.

AMANPOUR: But again, you've been doing this; you keep saying it must get deeper and more significant. But you've been doing it. And in the

meantime, you've just yourself said that Russian troops are now inside Ukraine. President Putin's so-called seven-point plan apparently involves

his demand that Ukrainian forces should withdraw from their own territory in Eastern Ukraine and he has also said to European leader that he could

take Kiev within two weeks if he wanted to.

Have you asked him to explain that? Has he resolved that particularly aggressive statement?

BILDT: No, we've haven't. But that was President Barroso. But on the peace plan, I mean, you're entirely right. I mean, there are two critical

components missing from his seven points. First, there's no withdrawal of Russian forces. And secondly there's no Ukrainian control of his borders.

While, as you say, he's demanding withdrawal of Ukrainian troops inside Ukraine, but he wants to retain Russian forces in Ukraine.

That means that those points here, what they might be able to produce some sort of cease-fire, that might be good because it does stop the killing.

But it's certainly not a solution and it's certainly not the end of the conflict.

AMANPOUR: NATO is talking about a rapid reaction force, also about having agreements with non-NATO nations such as yourself to train, equip, et

cetera.

How is that going to change any kind of NATO response to what, you know, what we see now, a Russia-Ukraine incursion, in the future or even now?

What difference is that going to make?

BILDT: I think it provides a reassurance to say the three Baltic nations that feel rather exposed in view of what Russia has been doing. It

increases -- it substantially increases the credibility of the commitment of NATO to their defense. And I think there is, as a matter of fact make

their independence and the serenity (ph) more secure for the future that in itself has got to be beneficial for the security of Europe.

AMANPOUR: And finally, President Obama and Prime Minister Cameron jointly penned a column, an article today in the "London Times," talking about

together standing to confront Russia, to confront ISIS.

Do you believe that President Putin will hear this message, take it seriously?

And what do you think his aims are today?

BILDT: Well, I think he will look at the deeds. And I think sanctions are going to be important. He will also look at the coherence that everyone

stands behind that particular message. He's looking for splitting the European Union and splitting the Western alliance if he can. If there's

coherence, I think it increases the credibility of the message.

Then he should also be, by the way, concerned with what is happening in the Levant and ISIS and all of that. A lot of the fighters that are down there

actually are Chechens. And I think he should be more concerned with that aspect of his long-term security than picking fights with Ukraine or with

the European Union or with NATO, which is distinctly counterproductive from the view of long-term Russian security. He has more acute problems as he

looks ahead.

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Bildt, thank you very much for joining me.

BILDT: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: And that's it for our program tonight. And you can catch our interrupted interview with the Iraqi president Fuad Masum online right now

at amanpour.com and, of course, on our later program starting at 10:00 pm London time.

Remember you can always contact us at our website and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

END