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Amanpour
Interview with Iraqi President Fuad Masum; Swedish Foreign Minister Discusses Russia; Imagine a World
Aired September 04, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, make or break for NATO as the alliance meets for one of its most critical summits ever, a
press conference is expected soon as leaders search for a joint strategy to confront Russian aggression and defeat ISIS terror. I speak to the Iraqi
president, Fuad Masum.
FUAD MASUM, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): From here and through this interview with you, I request the support for Iraq to fight those
terrorists.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Plus more sanctions for Moscow: Putin's defiance in Ukraine unites NATO. My interview with Swedish Foreign Minister Carl
Bildt.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
Tonight the most crucial NATO summit in recent times has gotten underway in Wales with the two strongest and closest transatlantic allies insisting
that, together, the alliance will be standing up to Russia and confronting ISIS.
And we start with ISIS. Under withering criticism for lacking a clear strategy and with their own citizens, executed and increasingly threatened
by ISIS, American President Barack Obama and the British Prime Minister David Cameron penned an article in the "London Times," laying out their
mission to form a coalition and a clear goal to stop ISIS.
While a spokesman for the family of Steven Sotloff, the second American journalist to be beheaded, directly challenges the self-declared caliph,
the terror group's leader.
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BARAK BARFI, SOTLOFF FAMILY SPOKESMAN (through translator): I have a message for Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The month of Ramadan is the month of
mercy. Where is your mercy? I am here debating you with kindness. I don't have a sword in my hand and I am ready for your answer.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Speaking there directly in Arabic, but even if the two leaders at the NATO summit succeed in pulling together a broad
coalition, success against ISIS hinges on whether Iraq itself can hang together.
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AMANPOUR: With all Iraqis, Sunni, Shiite and Kurd, fairly represented in government. From Baghdad ,Iraq's new president, Fuad Masum, joined me to
discuss the challenge to promise that a new government would be announced in a couple of days and to say how he's trying to get the country's
fractious political house in order while, at the same time, fighting off the Islamic State.
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AMANPOUR: President Masum, welcome to the program from Baghdad.
MASUM: (Speaking Arabic).
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, NATO is meeting right now. Let me play for you something that President Obama said about ISIS just ahead of this NATO
summit.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our objective is clear and that is to degrade and destroy ISIL so that it's no longer a threat, not
just to Iraq but also the region and to the United States.
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AMANPOUR: Mr. President, Barack Obama is pledging to destroy the ISIS threat.
Is that possible, do you think?
How can they do it?
MASUM (through translator): Certainly. There must be some constructive cooperation between Iraq and those countries, including the United States
and other countries, and I also believe that there should be some countries from the region, the neighboring countries of Iraq must get involved and
unite efforts to stop that threat, that threat in the entire world.
AMANPOUR: Iran is directly helping your forces. We understand that Iranian militias as well as Iraqi forces supported by American air power is
what stopped and relieved the siege of Amerli.
Can you confirm that? And it's extraordinary that everybody is working together like this.
MASUM (through translator): This is correct. And, in my opinion, the countries in the region, particularly the neighboring countries of Iraq,
they are supposed to form some kind of cooperation as among them and also with the United States in that regard.
AMANPOUR: How much of a threat does ISIS remain in Iraq, even since the U.S. airstrikes?
MASUM (through translator): ISIS is a threat as we speak right now, a threat to Iraq and perhaps to Syria as well. However, if there is
cooperation and coordination between Iraq and the United States, and the neighboring countries, I believe that organization can be quickly wiped
out.
AMANPOUR: The head of NATO, Mr. Rasmussen, says that Iraq, your government has not yet requested specifically help from NATO.
Are you going to ask for that help? What kind of help do you want?
MASUM (through translator): From here, and through this interview with you, I request support for Iraq is to fight those terrorists because Iraq
now is in a fragile situation, very vulnerable situation. And when that organization defeats Iraq, it can proceed to other countries.
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, as you very well know, one of the main reasons for the rise of ISIS is the dysfunction in Iraqi politics, the alienation
and the disaffection of the Sunni tribes and the Sunni minority there.
Is a new government going to be formed anytime soon?
MASUM (through translator): In the next few days, the new formation, the formation of the new government will be declared. It will -- it will be
inclusive of Shiites, Sunnis and all other -- all other components of Iraq.
AMANPOUR: Many, many of the former Saddam Hussein military officers, many Ba'athists, have joined ISIS or at least are helping in some way or
another.
And there have been, as you very well know, so many complaints about former Prime Minister Maliki.
Why is Prime Minister Ibadi going to be any different? He is obviously from the same sect. He's a Shiite. He's from the same Dawa Party.
Why do you think that he'll be any different and more inclusive than Prime Minister Maliki was?
MASUM (through translator): The situation now may be different from the past. Now there is the danger of ISIS and that danger is directed to all
non-Muslim components, particularly Christians and Yazidis and Sabahis (ph). Also, these groups are opposed to Shiites in particular. Along --
and also oppose many Sunni groups. So all those groups find themselves in a common danger. And they feel that they have to unite the position
against that severe threat.
That's why the situation now is different. Many Ba'athists, soldiers and officers, have joined ISIS because they oppose the change that has been
taking place in Iraq since 2003. And they were Ba'athists. They were deeply ideologists and they did not try to adjust themselves to the new
situation.
AMANPOUR: Is it possible to put Iraq back together again? Or is Iraq failing before our very eyes?
MASUM (through translator): Through the common cooperation inside Iraq between the military, the Peshmerga and the volunteers, also with the
intervention of the American Air Force, to stop that advancement of that organization, so gradually we are hopeful that we will wipe out that
organization completely in Iraq and follow them wherever they are, even if we have to follow their sleeping cells in many other countries.
AMANPOUR: Can ISIS be defeated if they are not also attacked inside Syria?
MASUM (through translator): It is important to strike ISIS wherever it is, because if ISIS takes over Syria, then the danger will remain. If we can -
- if we can follow ISIS into Syria, we can do that through cooperation with other powers in Syria until we wipe it out.
Fighting against ISIS does not mean supporting the Syrian regime.
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, many say that all of this mess is a lot because of the 2003 Iraq War, when an American-led coalition came to Iraq. Now
we're hearing another president who wanted to pull American out of war talking about a coalition to confront ISIS terrorists in Iraq.
Are you ready for another coalition war in Iraq?
MASUM (through translator): Certainly we want a constant truthful cooperation between the Iraq and the United States of America. We need
several things. We need expertise. We need know-how. We need some types of weapons that can be only obtained through agreement.
But the individuals or boots on the ground, maybe we don't need that, because we do have an army that may be need to rehabilitation. We only
need experts. We have also the Peshmerga, who are fighting ISIS vigorously. Also the intervention of the United States Air Force has
changed the situation against ISIS.
AMANPOUR: And just finally, the Peshmerga, everybody believed were so strong, but they were nearly overwhelmed by ISIS; without American help,
they might have been overwhelmed. That must worry you.
MASUM (through translator): Certainly the intervention of the airstrikes of -- from the United States was a very decisive factor. Also in the city
of Amerli, that was an excellent thing to do. The intervention of the Air Force, working side by the side by the remains of the Iraqi military and
the Peshmerga, has all led to the liberation of that city and to keep ISIS in a remote locations.
AMANPOUR: President Fuad Masum, thank you so much for joining me from Baghdad.
MASUM (through translator): Thank you.
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AMANPOUR: Meantime, al Qaeda might seem almost quaint compared to the brutal new bully on the block. Well, not so fast, as the Iraqi president
told us. Al Qaeda is rising to the competition, releasing this video today of its leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, announcing a new campaign in the Indian
subcontinent.
In its appeal to Muslims in Bombay and Bangladesh as well as Burma, the 55- minute message appears to be the anti-ISIS, shedding al Qaeda's sectarian ways by now trying to unite Muslims, especially in impoverished regions,
and focus their frustration and anger against the West and not against each other.
And meantime, how all of this may be uniting the world's leading military alliance. The challenges facing NATO and the chances for success when we
come back.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. Now, as well as confronting ISIS, NATO leaders are also vowing to stand up to Russia over Ukrain. And,
today, as the summit began, Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, along with the Ukrainian Petro Proshenko, criticized Russia for continuing to
destabilize Ukraine. And world leaders are vowing to hit Moscow with tougher new sanctions.
While the Kremlin presents the Putin peace plan, a 7-point roadmap that mentions no mention of withdrawing Russian forces.
Still, the Ukrianian president says a cease-fire could be agreed on Friday with pro-Russian rebel leaders.
Now with the twin battles against this Russian aggression and of course against ISIS terror, NATO has a new burst of energy and relevance, as the
Swedish Foreign Minister, Carl Bildt, explained from the summit in Wales.
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AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Bildt, welcome back to the program.
CARL BILDT, SWEDISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Obviously the crisis between Russia and Ukraine is taking center stage.
Has this summit yet produced anything to suggest there might be a strategy to confront Russia or to get some kind of political agreement between the
two?
BILDT: Well, we are trying to understand what can be done in order to stop the Russians. I mean, there's a Russian sort of peace plan -- so-called --
on the table that sort of lacks critical components.
But whether there will be a cease-fire or not, there are rumors of that. But so far, we don't see anything in the Russian behavior that indicates
that they're intending to stop.
AMANPOUR: What can NATO do and what must it do for Russia to even take your meeting seriously?
BILDT: I think Russia should look at the combined international response. It's not only NATO and the political response coming out of here; it's also
the sanctions discussions and decisions that have come out of the European Union tomorrow. It's also the financial support, the IMF, that we are
giving to Ukraine.
We are determined to support Ukraine. And we are determined to be very strict against Russia if it continues the policy of aggression.
Over time, I think this should make an impact.
AMANPOUR: Well, let me just put to you, then ,what the Ukrainian charge d'affaires told me right here in the studio a couple of days ago.
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ANDRII KUZMENKO, HEAD OF UKRAINIAN EMBASSY IN LONDON: So this is open challenge for the existing order. And by only the means of total response
of all the countries, of all the world community, we can stop the aggression and halt it.
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AMANPOUR: He seems to be saying, Mr. Bildt, that actually the world isn't united and you're not yet serious about the message you're sending to
Russia.
BILDT: I think he has a point in the sense that he's taking time for everyone to wake up, what is happening. I think things have changed
lately. MH17 was clearly something that changed the picture for a lot of countries. And subsequently what we've seen during the last few weeks is
that Russia has been inserting regular Russian forces into Ukraine.
I think that has been a wakeup call. And I think we now see in terms of the discussion inside the European Union, for example, a much stronger
response than was the case earlier. Perhaps we should have done it earlier. But we are doing it now.
AMANPOUR: What will happen? What is that strong response?
BILDT: Well, I mean, we are -- we are now going to increase sanctions and what is now discussed in Brussels -- and I hope decisions will be taken; I
think they will be taken tomorrow -- are fairly substantial measures. They're going to have fairly substantial impact on critical sectors of the
Russian economy.
AMANPOUR: Can you give me any more details?
BILDT: No, since discussions are ongoing.
But it's going to be an extension of what is already happening. But it's going to be deeper and more significant.
AMANPOUR: But again, you've been doing this; you keep saying it must get deeper and more significant. But you've been doing it. And in the
meantime, you've just yourself said that Russian troops are now inside Ukraine. President Putin's so-called seven-point plan apparently involves
his demand that Ukrainian forces should withdraw from their own territory in Eastern Ukraine and he has also said to European leader that he could
take Kiev within two weeks if he wanted to.
Have you asked him to explain that? Has he resolved that particularly aggressive statement?
BILDT: No, we've haven't. But that was President Barroso. But on the peace plan, I mean, you're entirely right. I mean, there are two critical
components missing from his seven points. First, there's no withdrawal of Russian forces. And secondly there's no Ukrainian control of his borders.
While, as you say, he's demanding withdrawal of Ukrainian troops inside Ukraine, but he wants to retain Russian forces in Ukraine.
That means that those points here, what they might be able to produce some sort of cease-fire, that might be good because it does stop the killing.
But it's certainly not a solution and it's certainly not the end of the conflict.
AMANPOUR: NATO is talking about a rapid reaction force, also about having agreements with non-NATO nations such as yourself to train, equip, et
cetera.
How is that going to change any kind of NATO response to what, you know, what we see now, a Russia-Ukraine incursion, in the future or even now?
What difference is that going to make?
BILDT: I think it provides a reassurance to say the three Baltic nations that feel rather exposed in view of what Russia has been doing. It
increases -- it substantially increases the credibility of the commitment of NATO to their defense. And I think there is, as a matter of fact make
their independence and the serenity (ph) more secure for the future that in itself has got to be beneficial for the security of Europe.
AMANPOUR: And finally, President Obama and Prime Minister Cameron jointly penned a column, an article today in the "London Times," talking about
together standing to confront Russia, to confront ISIS.
Do you believe that President Putin will hear this message, take it seriously? And what do you think his aims are today?
BILDT: Well, I think he will look at the deeds. And I think sanctions are going to be important. He will also look at the coherence that everyone
stands behind that particular message. He's looking for splitting the European Union and splitting the Western alliance if he can. If there's
coherence, I think it increases the credibility of the message.
Then he should also be, by the way, concerned with what is happening in the Levant and ISIS and all of that. A lot of the fighters that are down there
actually are Chechens. And I think he should be more concerned with that aspect of his long-term security than picking fights with Ukraine or with
the European Union or with NATO, which is distinctly counterproductive from the view of long-term Russian security. He has more acute problems as he
looks ahead.
AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Bildt, thank you very much for joining me.
BILDT: Thank you.
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AMANPOUR: And while the solution to such pressing problems as ISIS and Ukraine will dominate NATO discussions in Wales for the next day as well, a
new U.N. report revealed another disturbing crisis facing every single nation on earth.
The largest ever compilation of data on violence against children, taken from nearly 200 countries, documents what UNICEF calls the staggering
extent of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse hidden in plain sight in every country, including places where children are presumed to be safe.
Take this sobering statistic - among countries in Western Europe and North America, the United States has the highest rate of child murders, while a
brutal child sex trafficking ring was recently outed right here in England.
Perhaps one antidote can be found in an annual ritual that takes place everywhere this time year - the simple act of going back to school. We'll
go there too, when we come back.
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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, in Wales earlier this day, President Obama and Prime Minister David Cameron visited a school before the start of the
NATO summit. Politicians are always going to school. No word, however, on what this younger generation thought of inheriting their elders' messy
world.
But now imagine a world where children all over the globe are returning to school - or not. It's that time of year, whether they travel to school by
bicycle in China, or make the daily trip back and forth by boat in Cambodia. Some go by foot, walking to school with their mothers, while
others arrive by car, albeit reluctantly.
And some even have to get a haircut before they get their schoolbooks.
And then there are the schools still waiting for their missing students to return, like the classrooms in Nigeria where 200 girls were abducted by
Boko Haram and have yet to be found. Or the ones for whom school has become little more than a shelter, thanks to ISIS, like this empty
classroom in Northern Iraq.
And for this young boy in Gaza, his blackboard is a painful reminder of the conflict that left over 2,000 Palestinians dead, nearly 500 of them
children.
Still, there are signs of life that defy the odds and the terrorists. Like this tent in Kurdistan that's been turned into a makeshift school for
children who've been displaced by ISIS. Or this classroom in Ukraine near the city of Donetsk, where teachers rush to put the shattered pieces back
together just in time for the first day of class, where students arrived in traditional costumes, celebrating their embattled country and its culture.
As another schoolgirl, Malala Yousafzai, has reminded us: going to school is an act of courage and of hope, the surest way to fight the forces of
ignorance and evil that threaten everyone, grown-up and children alike.
That's it for our program tonight. Remember you can always contact us at our website, amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. \
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