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Amanpour

Syrian Kurds Blast Turks for Standing Idly By; Assad Pounds Rebels as U.S. Strikes ISIS; Cruel Force-Feeding at Guantanamo; Imagine a World

Aired October 09, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight as the Syrian city of Kobani burns under fire by ISIS, the Syrian Kurdish leader tells me

that he fears a massacre ahead.

The Guantanamo detainee cleared for release but still inside now suing the U.S. government for force-feeding him. His lawyer tells me his

treatment is cruel and inhumane and soon the world may see the video evidence.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

Advantage Assad: as the U.S.-led coalition continues to pound ISIS, some troubling truths. Bashar al-Assad is flying around the coalition to

pound enemies of his own.

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AMANPOUR (voice-over): He's targeting the main opposition, the moderate Syrian rebels who've been trying to topple him for nearly four

years now. And this latest footage shows Assad's forces taking back control of a key town near Damascus just yesterday.

We'll discuss this with the Syrian opposition in a moment.

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AMANPOUR: But first, coalition airstrikes haven't saved the Kurdish city of Kobani on the Turkish border and world leaders from Europe to the

United States appear on the defensive as a chorus of experts now say they must train up a ground force fast and perhaps even commit Western boots on

the ground.

Here's President Obama.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Strikes continue alongside our partners. It remains a difficult mission, as I've indicated

from the start, that this is not something that is going to be solved overnight.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): The new NATO chief is in Turkey now, discussing the fate of beleaguered Kobani and indeed the fight against ISIS

while Ankara pushes to take the fight to Assad's door. And violent clashes are breaking out in Turkey between security forces and Kurds, who are

protesting the government's hands-off policy, fearing a terrible massacre if Kobani falls.

Salih Muslim Muhammad is the Syrian Kurdish leader. He joined me earlier from Brussels and told me why defending Kobani is key to the whole

region's security.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Salih Muslim Muhammad, welcome to the program.

SALIH MUSLIM MUHAMMAD, DEMOCRATIC UNION PARTY: Thank you very much.

AMANPOUR: What is your biggest fear about Kobani right now?

MUHAMMAD: The people. I mean, all the war, I mean, they are just going step by step to another genocide or maybe massacre, because those

people are refusing to give up, insisting on defending their land or defending their homes and defending their dignity.

So we have to keep those groups from attacking.

AMANPOUR: How many civilians, how many Kurds and fighters are still there?

MUHAMMAD: We don't know the exact number because a lot of them are just in their houses, going to go around. So because of that, we don't

know.

But we guess there are more than 10,000 civilians, not less than 10,000.

AMANPOUR: What is it precisely that you want?

What kind of help do you believe could save Kobani?

Or do you think it's too late to save Kobani?

MUHAMMAD: No, it's not late because Kobani, maybe it's under siege for 25 days. So they are short of everything.

But the most important thing is to supply those fighters with advanced weapons like antitanks, because if there is no tanks and not armored

vehicles like Humvees, they could not go in through -- I mean, to reach Kobani.

AMANPOUR: So I asked the Turkish prime minister this week about saving Kobani and he said, you know, we want to save the civilians; we want

to help the civilians. But we're not going to get involved in the fight unless the fight also goes to Assad.

Do you agree with the coalition attacking Assad as well as ISIS?

MUHAMMAD: Well, I think the priority is now to -- is how to save the lives. And you know that is there, I should say, put down a caution for

saving the lives.

And those people, they were fighting against Assad since 2004. And we are one of them.

So we know the situation. It's just an excuse not to do anything.

AMANPOUR: What do you think the impact will be inside Turkey amongst the Kurds and around, throughout the whole Kurdish nation, if Kobani falls

and if there is a terrible massacre there?

MUHAMMAD: Now we cannot guess, I mean, because now all the Kurds, not only in Turkey, everywhere, all the Kurds, they feel this threat is to the

Kurdish people all, because this brutal organization called Daish or ISIS, they're now on the border. They can do everything. They were in Mosul

against the Kurds.

They were in Sinjar and now they are in Kobani. So what's the next step?

If they are broken, I mean, in Kobani, I don't want to think of it even because it could be -- I mean, it means that the victory of ISIS,

which ISIS at that time could go to Istanbul, could go to Ahmad (ph), could go to anywhere.

AMANPOUR: I mean, you must be asking -- you're the head of the Syrian Kurds. You must be asking the Turkish government why they're not allowing

supplies, military and humanitarian, into Kobani.

MUHAMMAD: Well, we asked them. I know they are for just last week. They cannot say anything. They said, well, we are -- we don't like Kobani

to fall and we will just be beside the Kobani and we will do everything for Kobani people.

But actually they haven't done any until now.

AMANPOUR: All right.

Salih Muslim Muhammad, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

MUHAMMAD: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So while the fate of Kobani hangs in the balance, now we turn to Bashar al-Assad, who's been exploiting the coalition attacks

against ISIS inside his country to press his own advantage against the moderate Free Syrian Army.

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AMANPOUR: My next guest was a leading member of the political wing, the Syrian National Council, Bassma Kodmani remains key to the anti-Assad

coalition fighting for democracy. And she joins me live from Paris now.

Bassma Kodmani, welcome to the program.

Let me ask you first what you believe Assad is doing.

What do you know of his fight against the Free Syrian Army and other rebels against him right now?

BASSMA KODMANI, ADVISER TO SYRIAN OPPOSITION COALITION: I think he has been waiting for this moment. He has prepared for it. He has worked

very careful over the last three years to help the groups implement themselves, take root in certain regions of the country. He allowed them

to do so.

He has sometimes worked with them. He has anyway avoided to strike them. So he has basically been the imperial maniac fireman, who now comes

as the fireman to say I will be the one to help in fighting these groups on the ground.

What he is currently doing precisely is that these strikes are allowing him to come to the other areas where the Free Syrian Army is,

where the rebellion is and to strike there. He has not stopped one day his strikes with barrel bombs and the population continues to die.

And every day, we have some of those strikes by the regime. So I think he is basically standing waiting for this to benefit him. And

whether this will benefit him is for the coalition that is striking today at ISIS to decide what exactly are the consequences and how to avoid

strengthening Assad. There are military means and there's a strategy and those are also political means to avoid that Assad benefit.

AMANPOUR: All right. So what do you make, then, of what is apparently a clear decision to just keep going after ISIS and maybe one day

turning against Assad?

The United States says that it and the rest of the coalition says it's not about Assad right now; it's not about Kobani, even if it falls, as sad

as that will be. It's about destroying command and control of ISIS, destroying their economic hubs, the oil facilities that they control, et

cetera.

Do you believe that that's a sound strategy?

KODMANI: That is where I think there is -- there are big questions to raise here, because a strategy that strikes at figures of the movement as

we -- as the U.S. has done in other contexts, in Yemen, in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, striking simply at where these groups are concentrated is a

traditional antiterrorist strategy. But that is not what is needed in Syria today. It is not enough.

What needs to happen is a strategy that allows for reconquering territory and the reconquerors can only be the Free Syrian Army, that it

needs to be equipped in order to slow down the progress of ISIS, to be able to set up checkpoints, to prevent ISIS from progressing and that strategy

is just not there at the moment. It is now failing at the expense of the Kurds of Kobani. This is a strategic, very, very strategic situation and

that is for Kobani, I mean, as it controls roads and a whole area that would allow ISIS to really gain huge strength. And that has not happened.

So I'm afraid the strategy is one that simply shows we are striking. We are killing a few figures.

But where is the reconquering of territory here?

And that is where the Free Syrian Army, the population, is not understanding exactly what is the purpose of these strikes and how on Earth

are we going to address the original issue of Assad having created this abominable disaster?

AMANPOUR: So in the last couple of days, it's been reported that Assad's forces have retaken parts of Idlib, you know, they've been

attacking parts of Aleppo and Damascus suburbs.

What do you -- we're hearing from moderates who are trying to fight against him a sort of a brewing anger against the coalition.

This is pretty troubling.

KODMANI: Yes, it is troubling. I think here the coalition is also only providing a military response that is not a -- not an adequate

response, not an appropriate response. It's not relevant enough. So we don't have the military strategy that is relevant. But we also don't have

a political message and a political strategy here.

I think we should get Iran and Russia to acknowledge that the U.S.-led coalition to date is conducting an operation of collective security for the

benefit of the international community. This is a service to everyone. Iran and Russia, with the regime, have helped create this situation. And

today the coalition is having to put some order in this mess and to extinguish the fire.

Therefore, I think there is -- there are political conditions and a political deal there. We are serving, we are doing you a service. And we

need your cooperation here, just like as in Iraq, Mr. Maliki was considered responsible for the poisoning of the situation there.

Today Assad is responsible for the poisoning of the situation in Syria. Maliki was removed with the help and cooperation of Iran. Assad, I

think, should know the same -- should have the same fate.

And only Tehran and Moscow can do that.

AMANPOUR: Now in this mess, both military and political mess, is there any hope, you think, of what you originally started to struggle for,

and that was a democratic process to see a new Syria under an inclusive democracy?

Is there any hope for that in the near term at all?

KODMANI: I think we have to now put in adequate --

(AUDIO GAP)

KODMANI: -- if we can say the military tool and the political one. We need the military tool in order to get to the political result that it

sought. The Free Syrian Army needs to be organized under some form of Syrian authority, a Syrian military structure. They are ready for that.

They are willing to fight. They want to fight and they are all committed to what the Syrian coalition has agreed to, which is a political solution

with elements of this regime, to ensure the continuity of Syria as the state, as a unitary state, with its institutions.

Now that is a -- there's a continuum between what you do to support and empower those democratic groups that are fighting on the ground and to

reach the political solution that we are seeking to reach at the moment. And that has been the same objective for the last four years. Geneva did

not work out. Maybe with a better military balance on the ground in favor of the revolutionary groups, the Free Syrian Army moderate groups, then

maybe we will get better cooperation and the message will reach Moscow and Tehran that, here, the U.S. coalition led -- the U.S. and its allies are

serious.

AMANPOUR: All right. Bassma Kodmani, fascinating. Thank you very much indeed for joining me.

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AMANPOUR: And of course it was a strange twist of fate years ago that made Bashar al-Assad president of Syria in the first place. He was

actually trained to be an ophthalmologist.

Now imagine a day dedicated to seeing. We'll have more on World Sight Day later in the program. But up next, seeing something that could be a

game-changer, video of what critics call inhumane treatment at Guantanamo Bay prison. Its potential worldwide impact when we come back.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

The horror we've witnessed from ISIS that galvanized the world to action was their captives paraded, beheaded and clothed in orange

jumpsuits, a clear reference to the notorious inmate garb at Guantanamo Bay, where six years after President Obama pledged to shut it down, it's

still open and still meting out what many call appalling treatment to some prisoners.

Abu Wa'el Dhiab has been incarcerated there since 2002. No charges were ever filed and, in fact, he was cleared to leave in 2009 after

exhaustive review of his case.

In protest, he and other prisoners have been on long-time hunger strikes. But it's how they're force-fed that has his lawyers suing the

U.S. government and pursuing a court order that might make public Guantanamo's own tapes of the force-feeding routine.

Cori Crider calls it inhumane. Now she's with the human rights group, Reprieve, that's helping defend Dhiab. And she told me America and the

world would be shocked by what she's already seen on tape.

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AMANPOUR: Cori Crider, welcome to the program.

CORI CRIDER, REPRIEVE: Thanks very much.

AMANPOUR: I just wonder what your feelings are when you see Guantanamo colors, that orange, being used so brutally to kill prisoners by

ISIS.

How does that make you feel at this time?

CRIDER: It makes me feel absolutely terrible, as I think any human would feel terrible.

I also think it's a sign of the way that Guantanamo has just created so much hatred around the world. It is really a symbol at this point for

United States hypocrisy. And I think it's pretty clear that extremists of all stripes have exploited that hypocrisy. It's one of many reasons that

we think that the prison needs to be closed as soon as possible.

AMANPOUR: Well, obviously, that was one of President Obama's first promises, if not his first promise. It hasn't happened.

You are representing Mr. Dhiab there. You want to stop the treatment he gets regarding force-feeding.

Is that correct?

CRIDER: That's absolutely right.

So Mr. Dhiab has been cleared for over five years, since 2009. The Obama administration has said he should be free to go. But he hasn't left

yet. And he doesn't believe he's going to go home. Every so often someone will come and tell him this is your day; you're going to be released now.

But he's lost hope.

And so he's on this protest. He's on a hunger strike, not because he wants to die but because he wants to go home to his family.

AMANPOUR: A Guantanamo official basically said to "Vice" media recently, "Hunger striking detainees are fed no differently than American

patients in U.S. hospitals who require feeding tubes."

Is that the case?

CRIDER: No, that's just false. We actually had three doctors testify under oath that the way Guantanamo prisoners are force-fed is punitive and

it's cruel and it's nothing like what would happen in a regular hospital in the mainland.

So Dr. Stephen Miles (ph) testified, for example, that it is almost unheard of to pass that tube down a prisoner's nose into his stomach twice

a day every day. Medical practice says you should leave the tubes in because it hurts. People can gag; they can cough. You know, I don't know

if you've ever been intubated, but it's a very uncomfortable process.

And certainly prisoners and other hospital patients on the mainland are not being hauled around all of the time for their force-feeding by a

so-called forcible cell extraction team, a group of soldiers in riot gear, who take my client and truss him up like an animal and haul him to force-

feeding.

Those practices are punitive. They're not medical and they have to be stopped.

AMANPOUR: There are people who have called it akin to torture, if not outright torture. They have likened it to something that was called the

water cure, used in the Spanish Inquisition, formerly apparently known as pumping.

Do you believe this is torture?

CRIDER: I believe it's certainly cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. And doing it day after day, to people who are suffering a great

deal of pain, it can rise to the level of torture, I think.

But rather than claims and counter claims from us in the government, what I really think is that the American people should be able to watch the

32 videotapes of Mr. Dhiab being hauled from his cell and force-fed that we won in the court case.

Judge Kessler (ph), his judge in his trial last week, ordered the government to produce publicly releasable versions of those videotapes.

So you know, my basic view is that, rather than claims and counter claims, the American people and the rest of the world should be permitted

to watch the tapes, see the truth and decide for themselves.

AMANPOUR: Well, your own client has said -- and I'll quote -- "If the American people stand for freedom, they should watch these tapes. If they

truly believe in human rights, they need to see these tapes."

The military down there say that they use humane treatment; and Judge Kessler, who you mentioned, actually, in her decision, said, "How, in a

place filled with, quote, 'angry confrontational detainees,' prison officials could be expected to provide the individualized treatment of the

sort that you are suggesting?"

How do you respond to that statement, that question by her?

CRIDER: A number of doctors testified before Gladys Kessler (ph) that the way to deal with people who get upset -- as I think, quite frankly, any

of us would be if we'd been held without charge or trial for a dozen years -- is to treat them like a human being, to try to deescalate.

The problem with the way that the military authorities at Guantanamo respond to the hunger strike is they don't see it as a cry of humanity.

They don't recognize it as a legitimate protest. They barely even use the word hunger strike. They call it a non-religious long-term fast.

So their whole approach to the problem is to treat this as a disciplinary issue and to try to stamp it out.

That creates a needlessly confrontational environment. All of our experts testified that Mr. Dhiab does not want to die. He is protesting

and he wants to be treated like a human being. And it's just a shame that we have to take the Defense Department to court to get them to do that.

AMANPOUR: Do you ever feel that you're just banging your head against a wall, that this is a hopeless cause?

CRIDER: Oh, God, myself and everybody else at Reprieve have been fighting for these guys, these cleared prisoners, for many years. It took

us a year and a half to get the trial about the way that they're treated.

But I do hope that this is really going to be a turning point. If these tapes are published, that's going to be a ray of light on the truth,

on the way that these prisoners are treated. And I hope and pray that that will hasten the close of this prison.

AMANPOUR: On that note, Cory Crider, thank you very much indeed for joining me this evening.

CRIDER: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So what she's describing is vital viewing. And there are a lot of things, though, that we wish we didn't see in this troubled world of

ours. But imagine if you didn't have the choice. For half a billion people, the world is literally out of focus. An eye-opening examination of

a global crisis in health care when we come back.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, imagine a world where everything is a blur. No, it's not the effect of watching too many contradictory news

stories. For the half a billion people visually impaired, even the sweetest scene can't be fully enjoyed.

But fortunately for many prevention and treatment may be within reach.

World Sight Day, created 14 years ago by the International Agency for the Prevention of Blindness, is dedicated to ensuring universal eye care by

the end of this decade. The numbers are certainly eye-opening: by the year 2020, there are expected to be 76 million people worldwide living in

virtual darkness. And yet three-quarters of those cases are preventable.

By training more doctors, nurses and ophthalmologist, especially in developing nations. Home to 90 percent of the world's visually impaired, a

simple eye exam and a pair of glasses can change millions of lives.

In the kingdom of the blind, they say, the one-eyed man is king. But when the blind can see again, the world and the solutions to its many

complex problems, may come more clearly into focus, too.

And that's it for our program tonight. Remember you can always watch our show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter.

Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

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