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Sierra Leone Development Disrupted by Ebola; World Bank Head on Ebola Crisis; Chinese Insight into North Korea; Imagine a World

Aired October 24, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: an Ebola exclusive. The president of Sierra Leone on the deadly disease ravaging his nation.

Plus the head of the World Bank tells me we are not near the finish line yet in the fight against this virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM YONG KIM, WORLD BANK PRESIDENT: We still haven't turned a corner. So no prognosis yet. We're beginning to get more serious but a lot more still

needs to be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): And was North Korea's Kim Jong-un reaching out to the United States by releasing the jailed American tourist, Jeffrey Fowle?

A rare interview with a senior Chinese official.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the weekend edition of our program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

Tonight we drill down on the Ebola epidemic with two major players, the president of the World Bank, who's marshaling resources at a breakneck

speed to ramp up health care facilities in the hot zone and the president of Sierra Leone, which, after Liberia, is the worst hit of those West

African nations.

No area of that country is untouched by the virus. Indeed, like its suffering neighbors, Sierra Leone hovers on the brink of total collapse

after decades of war. The United Nations says 19,000 doctors and nurses are urgently needed in West Africa by December 1st in order to try to slow

the spread of Ebola. But it's still not clear where they'll come from.

Troops from the United States and Britain and doctors from as far afield as China and Cuba have arrived to help.

Sierra Leone's president, Ernest Bai Koroma joined me by video link from Freetown, and I asked him what he needs most to save his state.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: President Koroma, welcome to the program. Thank you for joining me.

ERNEST BAI KOROMA, PRESIDENT OF SIERRA LEONE: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: There are dozens of new Ebola cases reported every day.

Do you feel that you are still being overwhelmed by this disease in your country?

KOROMA: Well, Ebola is new to us. We announced the outbreak in May this year and then from the pronouncement, government have been utilizing its

resources, its expertise, the response we exacted was not in on time and that's created a situation in which we had the virus way ahead of us.

We are now trying to cope. There has been an increase in the international response and I believe that the structures we are not putting in place very

soon will get to the point wherein we'll be able to continue the virus.

AMANPOUR: Mr. President, there are great fears that not only your country but the other two worst hit are going to be really badly damaged

economically, that all these years of aid and effort to rebuild after your wars are going to waste right now.

How bad is that?

KOROMA: Well, as a nation, we have been affected badly. We are busy doing the right things, because after that war, we are building up our economy,

building our infrastructure. And we got to the point wherein we positioned ourself (sic) as the second fastest growing economy in the world and we

have achieved that position for 2-3 years running.

And we're busy building our infrastructure, building our democracy and other things when Ebola struck. Of course, it has its economic

consequences, a lot of businesses are closing down. The job opportunities are going. The government revenue is reducing. The prices have been

increased. So it has destructed the growth pattern that we have established over the years.

And it's definitely going to affect us moving forward.

AMANPOUR: What do you need most right now?

KOROMA: Well, the U.K. government is here. They're helping us to address the gaps that we had in our fight, that is, increasing the bed capacities

in our treatment centers. The three, four sites that are now being constructed by the British will have their own laboratory, because we will

require additional laboratories.

And they're also helping us in training our health workers. This is very critical. In all of what of we are doing, we need qualified health workers

to come in and run the treatment centers, run the laboratories, run the Ebola community holding centers and also helping the training of people

that will be involved in the contact tracing and surveillance.

These are all components in the fight against Ebola.

AMANPOUR: Mr. President, President Ernest Bai Koroma, thank you so much for joining me from Freetown.

KOROMA: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: More doctors and nurses now, is what President Koroma and the other West African leaders are desperately calling for. And after failing

miserably to respond at first, the World Bank says the international community is now stepping up, with the bank itself spearheading a quicker

flow of aid and cash to those stricken countries. Much of this can be credited to its president, Jim Yong Kim.

A medical doctor himself, Kim spent years delivering critical care to impoverished nations and he joined me from his Washington headquarters amid

continued warnings that there are still nowhere near the resources required reaching West Africa.

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AMANPOUR: Dr. Jim Yong Kim, welcome back to the program.

JIM YONG KIM, WORLD BANK PRESIDENT: It's great to be with you, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you, because you're not just the head of the World Bank, you are also a doctor.

What is your prognosis for containing this terrible outbreak?

KIM: We still haven't turned a corner, Christiane. You know, there's a lot of things that are happening.

We seem to have a much better strategy now. I think we're really focused on safe burials. We're focused on finding the people who are suffering

from Ebola. And we have a timeline and the World Health Organization, the U.N. have been leading on getting this timeline together.

And it seems like some of the habits in the country have changed. More health workers are coming in. But we still haven't turned a corner. So no

prognosis yet. We're beginning to get more serious but a lot more still needs to be done.

AMANPOUR: One of the serious things we understand is that the WHO is rushing an antibody, a serum to the affected nations.

Is that a game-changer?

KIM: Well, we're not sure. And right not there's still not enough proven drugs. There's really nothing on the market that's been completely vetted.

And so we're still a bit in the experimental stage.

But I think that the discussions that are happening right now around potential vaccine candidates and various drugs -- and this one as well, the

-- they give us some sense that more is being done and there are some possibilities.

But still the ground game is critical. The ground game is safe burials. The ground game is identifying all the people with Ebola, providing them

treatment and then making sure they're isolated.

And right now, again, the big issue is not a miracle drug. The big issue is getting enough people, enough health workers who can make it happen.

AMANPOUR: The United States has just announced new travel rules, particularly people coming from those parts of affected West Africa into

only specific airports in the U.S.

Is that likely to put a stop or to contain this?

KIM: It's extremely important not to isolate these three countries. One of the things as a medical doctor and especially for Ebola, one of the

greatest tools we have is to elicit what we call a travel history. Where have you been?

And if we isolate these three countries then we're going to lose the travel history because there's going to be such a temptation to lie about where

you've been, especially if you've been in these three countries.

And so we really have to keep a stance, where we're in solidarity with these three countries, we're trying to help put out the epidemic.

And so I think it's very important for us not to be in a situation where the overwhelming motivation is to lie about having been in Liberia, Sierra

Leone or Guinea.

And that is, to me, the most important thing that we should think about when we look at the different travel rules.

AMANPOUR: You've said you must get more personnel, more medical personnel on the ground. We've seen the success in Nigeria. It has this week been

declared Ebola-free, the World Health Organization says, because of world- class epidemiological detective work.

So how did Nigeria do it?

KIM: Well, first of all, and I was -- had the opportunity to sit with President Goodluck Jonathan during the U.N. General Assembly. And I asked

him specifically how he did it. And one of the keys was he knew every detail.

So there was very strong leadership from the top, which is something you always need. And then there were many people that came from the United

States Centers for Disease Control and they put together a strategy that identified every single contact of the patient who'd come across the

border.

So there was one patient who came across the border, 20 infections in total. But the sense that we have to bring out of this is that this was

very difficult to do. More than 200 physicians, Christiane, more than 600 other health workers, they traced 900 contacts and they did a total of

almost 19,000 home visits at a cost of well over $10 million.

So the lesson here is, one, it can be done. But, two, if hundreds come across the border, the response is going to be very difficult. That's why

it's so important to focus on stopping the epidemic at its source.

AMANPOUR: You must be amazingly gratified and impressed by the Cuban doctors. I mean, the Cuban president has, again, seen off hundreds more

doctors who are going over there to the worst affected areas.

And they have really been praised a lot.

Cuba clearly has something to teach the world in its rapid response, doesn't it?

KIM: Well, this was a wonderful gesture. And having worked for many years in Haiti, Christiane, I've worked with Cuban doctors. And the great thing

about the Cuban physicians that are sent overseas is not only are they well trained, because medical schools and the training programs in Cuba are

extremely high quality.

But they have experience working in places like rural Haiti. They have experiences working in other parts of Africa. So this particular group is

precisely the kind of physicians and health workers we need.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about the United States, where you are joining me from right now.

I want to ask you about the backlash, the hysteria, just reading you a couple of things, the ugliness: immediate suspicion of anyone who's

African and vomits; one college not accepting applicants from Nigeria; a school asking a principal in Mississippi to stay home because he went to

Zambia, which has recorded precisely zero cases of Ebola; a teacher in Maine told to stay home because he went to Dallas.

I mean, there is an epidemic of fear and loathing in the U.S. right now.

KIM: I can understand that people who have not been trained in infectious disease can be fearful. But I think that this is really an important

moment. Right now what the world needs is global solidarity. This is not a disease of West Africa. This is not a disease of these three countries.

This is something that will require all of us to step up, just like the Cubans did, just like the U.S., the U.K., that France have done, all of us

now need to step up and put everything on the table. And in fact, what happens is every day we delay putting money on the table, getting health

workers in place, the cost over time goes up and goes up pretty dramatically.

We've got to stop this now in those three countries and while I understand the fear, I really want to emphasize to everyone who's listening that that

fear has to be translated into a greater sense of urgency to tackle the problem where it's based.

AMANPOUR: Dr. Jim Yong Kim, thank you so much, president of the World Bank, joining us on this really important topic today.

KIM: Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Now China has planted a massive business footprint all over Africa and the prime minister last week pledged another $16 million to

fighting Ebola. It's also sending health workers; a group of doctors arrived in Sierra Leone last month.

But is China doing enough? Coming up next, a rare chance to hear from an official who has the ear of the government in Beijing: on Ebola, Hong Kong

and North Korea.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

The American Jeffrey Fowle returned home today after five months in a North Korean jail. Few people understand how or even why the Hermit Kingdom

makes the decisions it does better than Beijing. And tonight I have the rare opportunity to speak to a senior Chinese government official.

Ambassador Wu Jianmin, who now advises the foreign ministry, we spoke about North Korea, Ebola and pro-democracy protests on China's doorstep in Hong

Kong.

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AMANPOUR: Ambassador, welcome to the program.

WU JIANMIN, FORMER CHINESE AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

AMANPOUR: The idea that North Korea has just released an American tourist after several months in jail, how do you think that impacts North Korean

relations?

Why do you think they held him and are releasing him now?

WU: Maybe they have some consideration for United States. In the eyes of North Korea, they give a lot importance to U.S. Maybe they like to send a

signal to the U.S. to have some deals, some talks maybe.

AMANPOUR: Let me just also read something that the secretary of state has just said, John Kerry.

"We're very concerned about the remaining American citizens in North Korea," because there are two more in jail there. "We're working on their

release. We've talked to the Chinese and others. We have high focus on it."

What is America asking you to do to get the others released?

WU: Oh, I think they want us to exert our influence to get these people released.

AMANPOUR: And are you?

(CROSSTALK)

WU: We are doing what we can to help America.

AMANPOUR: What do you make and what does the Chinese authorities, the government make, of the disappearance of the leader, Kim Jong-un, and then

the reappearance?

WU: We don't know.

(LAUGHTER)

AMANPOUR: You don't know whether he was sick?

WU: Yes, yes, we don't know what happened, that he disappeared, then he appeared again.

(LAUGHTER)

WU: We don't know what happened in the meantime.

AMANPOUR: Do you find him as inscrutable and as difficult to read as the rest of the world does?

WU: Quite mysterious. You see, we have no -- I mean, the Chinese leader has had no direct contact with him apart from the vice president, Li

Yuanchao. He went to Korea, he met with him, and Xi Jinping had no meeting since.

AMANPOUR: Let's move on to something that has gripped the whole world and that is the Ebola crisis. China is obviously heavily invested in Africa.

What is China doing to help mitigate this, to help deal with this outbreak of disease?

WU: You know, Ebola is a daunting challenge facing the world. Facing such a calamity, such a pandemic, human beings win (ph). China's part of it.

We believe we have joined -- we have to join hands to fight together this Ebola, I mean, virus. We sent teams to Africa. We are going to do -- have

to do more in that, in this regard.

AMANPOUR: I just want to show you a quote. This is from a Chinese businessman in Sierra Leone.

"Ebola is real, but so are the business opportunities."

Now some people might think that looks like a cold comment.

How do you explain that comment?

WU: You know, crisis in Chinese consists of two words, danger and opportunity.

I think this is -- I think this is Chinese philosophy -- it's a crisis, yes. We have to fight this crisis. But behind the crisis there must be

some business opportunities.

AMANPOUR: Let me move on to Hong Kong, where we've witnessed weeks of protests. They've sort of calmed down now.

But I guess I want to ask you whether you have been impressed by what we just saw over the last 24 hours -- this amazing sight of these student

leaders sitting politely and respectfully, talking to Hong Kong leaders.

How do you assess that, that picture, that image?

WU: That's good. People have differences. They sit down, talk to each other, trying to work out a solution. That's good.

AMANPOUR: Do you see a solution? Because in fact, the executive empowered to talk to the students suggested that maybe in the future, some of these

changes that the students have asked for could be considered.

Do you see China allowing that?

WU: You know, as the Hong Kong leaders told the students, what the formula put forward by the Standing Committee of People's Congress is one formula.

It's not final. And yesterday they say that in process, because this is not the substance, not the democracy versus non-democracy, no. This is a

different populace.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you if this kind of commentary is desirable, what was in the "Global Times," which is very close to the party in China, "Hong

Kong protest movement will not stamp its name in history, but only leave a stink that lasts 10,000 years."

Now to us, that sounds like a very graphic, strange way of putting this. I don't really understand why they would say "stink."

WU: You know, Chinese -- I don't know -- Christiane, you have been to China. You have to watch the Chinese society in evolution. Chinese

society is becoming more and more pluralistic. There are so many views.

You quote the "Global Times" -- when you, you know, some -- many articles they publish, I disagree. Sometime I send a piece of my article to them,

they publish it. There are different views. You say they are pretty close to the Communist Party. I'm not sure. There are so many views.

So I don't know whether these views are in conformity with party lines. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they are not.

AMANPOUR: On that note, Ambassador Wu Jianmin, thank you so much indeed for joining me.

WU: Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And just a note: while the Hong Kong protests have rocked Chinese politics, they have inspired photographers and artists.

A Portuguese sketcher happened to be there when the demonstrations erupted; in fact, Luis Simoes was drawing his way around the world when he found

himself swept up in the story that gripped the world, putting his pen to paper, sketching scenes of the political upheaval that was taking shape on

the streets of Hong Kong.

Now his drawings captured a bit of history. Words have the power to change history. And when we come back, remembering the courage of one legendary

newspaper editor who dared with words to expose the truths and change the U.S. presidency forever.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, for journalists, holding the rich and powerful to account is a key mission. And the key decision to go with an

explosive exclusive usually comes down to simple questions: is this accurate and can we publish?

Now imagine a world without the courage of legendary "Washington Post" editor Ben Bradlee, who has died at the age of 93. When he faced pressure

over whether to go with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein's shocking Watergate revelations, he always told them to just get it right. And the

rest is history.

The boldness of this editor, his two reporters and "The Post's" publisher finally forced President Richard Nixon to resign in 1974, rather than be

impeached for a massive White House corruption and cover-up scandal. It ricocheted and riveted not just the nation but the whole world.

But there were no hard feelings from the White House many years later. He won the Congressional Medal of Honor in 2013. And what Bradlee did set new

standards in investigative journalism. It inspired generations ever after to enter this profession.

His reputation as one of the greatest newspaper editors ever will live on, thanks in part to "All the President's Men," the movie where Jason Robards

plays Bradlee with wisecracking cool, keeping Robert Redford as Bob Woodward and Dustin Hoffman as Carl Bernstein on the straight and narrow.

He didn't always get it right. "The Post" once had to return a Pulitzer Prize after it was discovered that the journalist flat-out fabricated her

story. But Ben Bradlee's standing in the newsroom and in the world of journalism is described by his successor, Leonard Downie Jr., quote, "We

would follow this man over any hill into any battle, no matter what lay ahead."

Oh, to have such an editor.

And that's it for our program tonight. Remember you can always watch the show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thank

you for watching and goodbye from London.

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