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Interview with Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry; Best Global Teacher Prize Awarded. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 16, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:12] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight, Egypt back to being the host with the most? After a major economic summit there, my interview

with the foreign minister on winning back U.S. military aid. Whether peace could be the winner in tomorrow's Israeli election? And will ISIS end up

winning the battle for regional control?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: The rise of the extreme terrorism and the barbaric actions, whether in Libya or anywhere else, is

deplorable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Also ahead, the world's best teachers. For the first time, a $1 million prize is awarded. Will the honor finally bring teachers the

respect and recognition they deserve? The finalists from Afghanistan join me live.

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

The centrifugal forces of the Middle East are as powerful as ever today. A painfully hammered out nuclear deal with Iran could change the

course of politics in the region, as good tomorrow's pivotal elections in Israel. And, of course, ISIS continues to sink its violent claws into

thousands of miles of Iraq, Syria, Libya and now Nigeria, as Egypt, the Arab world's most populous country and once the regional fulcrum tries to

rebrand itself in the tumultuous post-Arab Spring. The latest selfie mania seems to have descended on President Abdel Fattah el Sisi, who is

determined to forge an economic revolution here at the closing of a landmark financial conference this weekend in the resort town of Sharm el

Sheikh. And here's U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry back again two years after freezing American military aid after the fall of President Mohamed

Morsi. And there was chairman of General Electric announcing nearly $2 billion in investment, amongst the billions more that have been pledged by

other nations, nations who have a new-found interest in stability and security over prioritizing full freedom and democracy.

I spoke earlier with Egypt's foreign minister, Sameh Shoukry, from Cairo.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry, thank you for joining us from Cairo.

SHOUKRY: Happy to be with you.

AMANPOUR: You have just come out of a big economic summit at Sharm El Sheikh where certainly Gulf States said something in the region I think of

$12 billion. And you've also announced the desire to build a brand new capitol which might stretch all the way over to the Sinai, home for seven

million people. Is that really going to happen?

SHOUKRY: It certainly will. This is a national project. It's one that's necessary in view of the rising population. And we all know the

strength that occurs beyond Cairo. This is already a mega capitol. We have to disperse some of the population outside of it to survive. And it

is the hope of the government that this will be implemented within a very short time frame, at least the nucleus of the new capitol city.

AMANPOUR: Now, what a difference a year makes. Foreign Minister, you know there was a great deal of concern in many parts of the world about the

current Egyptian government and how it came to power. But in this last year, it is as if the whole situation is turned around. I'd like to play a

sound bite from Secretary of State Kerry, who was at Sharm El Sheikh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: So I came here today, I came here over this weekend to this conference to reiterate the support of President

Obama, the Obama administration and the people of the United States for Egypt as it undertakes significant reforms and works towards the economic

transformation that all the people of Egypt are hoping for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, Foreign Minister, obviously, the fight against ISIS has recalibrated a lot of currents, a lot of political currents. First and

foremost, do you expect the United States to start spending again to restart this military aid that is being suspended to Egypt?

[14:04:43] SHOUKRY: I don't think the current situation in Egypt has anything to do with ISIL or the fight against terrorism. This is a

representation of the Egyptian peoples' will and it is that will that reinforces the government's commitment to provide the necessary security

and stability for this population in this country.

AMANPOUR: Yeah, absolutely. But to my question, do you believe that the United States, and certainly Egypt has asked for this, will restore the

military aid that was suspended back in 2013 when President Morsi was ousted?

SHOUKRY: First of all, this is an issue for the United States to respond to. And I think the secretary, Kerry, when he was in Egypt during

his press conference, he made the comments related to the intention of restoring the assistance to normalcy and to provide the equipment that has

been restricted over this past period.

AMANPOUR: You have ISIS on your doorstep, neighboring Libya and there's pretty much chaos there. Earlier, after there was this shocking

video of them beheading Egyptian Christians, your country did some bombing trying to target their headquarters. And how much of a threat does it pose

to Egypt?

SHOUKRY: Well, it's quite a substantial threat, the rise of extreme terrorism and the barbaric actions, whether in Libya or anywhere else, is

deplorable. And I think we have to be true to our commitments as an international community in this fight. We saw the coalition that was

established immediately after the brutal killing of an American and an Englishman in Iraq, a coalition of 80 countries. And I think the dangers

that exist in Libya are equal, if not of the same magnitude, and that the lives of 21 Egyptians are certainly worth the international community's

active participation.

AMANPOUR: Iran is obviously one of the frontline nations taking the fight to ISIS, certainly, in Iraq. Do you agree and approve of that? Is

that a good thing as far as Egypt is concerned? And a follow-up, what about this impending deal between Iran, the United States and the other

members of the Security Council over its nuclear program? Will that cause, you know, a reduction of tension in your region?

SHOUKRY: There's a broad coalition. I'm not aware that Iran is part of that coalition, and thereby, I presume that it's acting in coordination

with the Iraqi government. The problems of Iraq are quite diversified. Among them, of course, is the sectarian divide that currently. Thereby, I

think it's very important that the situation and the conditions in Iraq goes beyond that sectarian divide so that the Iraqi nation can be unified

in its battle against ISIL.

As for the nuclear agreement or potential nuclear agreement between the United States, the P5-Plus-1 and Iran, we are following closely and

hope that this region stays free of weapons of mass destruction and avoids any potential arms race in the region.

AMANPOUR: What about, again, a neighbor next door, Israel, going through an election just this week, on Tuesday. Egypt is one of the few

states that had a peace process, a peace treaty with Israel. There's been almost no movement for more than a year now under the current government.

How do you expect the election to affect that?

SHOUKRY: We do not interfere in the internal affairs of our neighbors or anyone else. We believe that we must approach the Israeli/Palestinian

peace process under any Israeli government and under any Palestinian representation. What is necessary is full engagement by all parties,

whether the newly elected Israeli government or the Palestinian Authority on productive but constructive negotiations within a determined time frame

so that we can implement the two-state solution and finally end the conflict.

AMANPOUR: And finally, I want to ask you a question about democracy in your country. Over the weekend, 41 judges were dismissed, forced into

retirement because of support for the Muslim Brotherhood. But beyond that, President Sisi gave an interview to "The Washington Post," in which he

addressed the issue of democracy. And he said, quote, "You look at Egypt with American eyes. Democracy in your country has evolved over 200 years.

Just give us a chance to develop. If we rush things, countries like ours will collapse."

Expand on that for me.

[14:09:43] SHOUKRY: Well, the current democratic process is forged by the will of the Egyptian people. They determine what extent, and they are

the ones who judge the application of democratic principles. So we have a constitution which is quite extensive in elaborating and stipulating the

various democratic principles. And the final evaluation of the degree of our success is only assessed through the determination of the Egyptian

people.

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry, thank you very much, indeed, for joining me.

SHOUKRY: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: Major challenges and changes ahead for Egypt then. One of them, you heard, is the creation of a brand new capitol east of Cairo. Now

if the move does go ahead, it will be the first time the Egyptian capitol has moved since 969 A.D. That is more than 1,000 years ago.

And when we come back, we celebrate education. I speak to one of the finalists for the first ever Global Teachers Prize, as well as the speaker

of the House of Lords here in the U.K., its strongest supporter, proving that, those who can, teach. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

Teachers, we all have a favorite one, the one who inspired us or pushed us beyond our comfort zone to new frontiers. And now, for the very

first time, there's a prize for the best teacher in the world. At a ceremony on Sunday night in Dubai, the $1 million award went to Nancy

Atwell. She is an English teacher from the U.S. state of Maine.

Now, the prize was created to raise the teaching profession, to respect its status and to encourage more to join its ranks. Why? Well,

the United Nations says the world needs almost seven million more teachers by the end of this year just to ensure every child's right to an education.

And my next, Azizullah Royesh, was a finalist for the Global Teacher of the Year prize. He is headmaster of the Marefat School in Kabul. And

full disclosure, I happen to support it, thanks to the person who really got Marefat School off the ground. That is Baroness Frances D'Souza,

speaker of the House of Lords here in the U.K.

Baroness D'Souza and Azizullah Royesh, welcome to the program.

Aziz, let me start with you.

How on earth did you go from being a young boy whose own education was stopped at such a young age to starting this amazing school in Afghanistan?

AZIZULLAH ROYESH, HEADMASTER, MAREFAT SCHOOL, KABUL: Thank you. It's my pleasure to see and also Francis D'Souza.

I think it was a miracle. And I think when the Soviets invaded my country and forced me out of my classroom at the age of 10 and grade five,

the whole world happened to become my classroom and the whole people that I was encounter and the books that I read that became my teachers. And that

was the reason that life itself drove me to share the things that I've got from my own experiences and through these people, through these ideas what

appears in my village that they needed. That amount of knowledge or that amount of insight that I had gotten, and that was I think the first of my

career as a teacher.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask Baroness D'Souza, because you went to Afghanistan and somehow you met Aziz and, because of you really, he got the

school off the ground. Why? How did that happen?

FRANCES D'SOUZA, BARONESS, HOUSE OF LORDS, U.K.: Well, you know, something can inspire you in life. And I went in early 2002. I was part

of an organization that is known for its pursuit of democracy and someone introduced me to this man who had vision and determination, and who was

absolutely wedded to the idea of girls' education. And he talked and talked and talked to me for about three or four hours. And then he wrote

an article about it. And I began to realize that this was someone who was really very special and needed supporting.

AMANPOUR: You talk about girls' education, especially.

And, Aziz, I know you are also committed to girls' education.

But for both of you, I need to ask, even though people support you, even though you have girls in your school, the cultural forces are so

strong against empowering women.

Aziz, how do you break down those barriers?

[14:14:50] ROYESH: You know, that's a matter of careful vision of the community of the community, which I term that, through my teaching and the

classes with the students. For me, it was a challenge. I knew that there were traditional elites, people that even didn't even think about a single

moment to let the girls to go out of their homes, let alone to participate in the classes where they would be sitting side by side with the boys.

Then we had these mixed classes out of a deliberate program that we had. For us, you know, the first step was how to encourage the community,

especially the families, to think about the education of their daughters as a way for their survivals. Then to go with providing the girls themselves

a type of insight, a type of vision that they could easily share that with their respective families. So great window grew and they acquired that

vision to utilize that for their own freedom, freedom of ties (ph), freedom of expression. Their families should not be detached from them. They

should be supportive and understanding, that they should understand that the things their daughters discuss about.

AMANPOUR: Aziz --

ROYESH: So this was something as an approach that we would come to, you know, overcome the challenges of the restrictions.

AMANPOUR: When you say families, Aziz, do you mean like the fathers and the brothers? Are you trying to get the men involved to support their

girls?

ROYESH: Yes, yes. Because, you know, our idea was to get our achievements but we would not be -- of course, to pay a cost for that. And

having the families through this type of education that we are providing for the girls, it was a cost for this achievement, and that would not be

affordable for us. So the first thing that we did was to help the students to get connected and, you know, to maintain their connection with their

families in a way that they would be regarded, you know, in a joint effort to form an environment for themselves that each of them would be happy with

that and pleased to see that their (INAUDIBLE.

AMANPOUR: Baroness D'Souza, when you went there, you were not speaker of the House of Lords. In the interim, you've met President Ghani. What

do you -- is this replicable, this school, this idea around Afghanistan? Is there the political will to do that?

D'SOUZA: President Ashraf Ghani has said that the Marefat model should be spread around Afghanistan so much because he admired it. But you

cannot imagine the kinds of difficulties that Aziz faced. You have a devastated city, a community which was terrorized by the Taliban. He

started with 30 peoples. It's a rags-to-riches story, but the riches are education and culture. And it seems to me that the real key that Aziz hit

upon was to root the school in the community so that the whole community, men, women, boys, girls, are there to support the school and to defend the

school. And that is really precious because that is how development happens.

AMANPOUR: It is really difficult though, as much as we talk now, as much as Aziz is a finalist, we heard that in the government of the previous

president, Hamid Karzai, they wouldn't certify Marefat unless they segregated girls and boys in the classes. Again, does that matter? Maybe

it doesn't?

D'SOUZA: Well, I mean, it was an enormous financial burden on the school when it happened about seven, eight or nine years ago. But don't

forget that Aziz is a master of getting around obstacles. And what he does now is to ensure that all the things that the government at that time

didn't want to see happen, civic education, human rights education, philosophy -- he teaches the extracurricular, I mean, outside the normal

curriculum. So I think that what he's done is to create generations of potential leaders for Afghanistan. And I think that the rest of

Afghanistan begins to see that this school has worked. A miracle. It's an oasis of excellent in that very unsettled country. And it has been called

the St. Paul's of Kabul.

AMANPOUR: Of course, St. Paul's is one of the best schools in the world, right here in London.

Aziz, you didn't win the $1 million but there is a $25,000 award that went to all the finalists. What will you do with that $25,000? What would

have done had you won the $1 million?

ROYESH: I had already donated, you know, the $1 million if I could win that. I think that would have been the prize for my students and my

fellow faculty. And this $25,000 would also be used for the betterment of the activities that we have for the expansion of the vision of Marefat and

the work that we're doing at Marefat, because there are hundreds of students and the fellow teachers that they are waiting, you know, a

progress for their programs. I think this $25,000 will be the smallest gift that I can offer to thank their contribution for the joint work that

we are doing, and especially for the consolidation of the vision that I have behind education for a better community to be formed and the rest of

the five years, 10 years, at the end of the decade of changes in 2015 to 2025.

[14:20:49] AMANPOUR: Aziz Royesh, thank you very much.

Baroness D'Souza, finally to you, do you see hope in the future or are we going to see Afghanistan sort of --

(CROSSTALK)

D'SOUZA: If we have a school like Marefat, there has to be hope in Afghanistan. And even though Aziz was not the top-10 winner, he is also a

winner. And what we're going to do, because of what President Ashraf Ghani said, is try and raise a Marefat million in order to set up a teacher

training college.

AMANPOUR: Well, good luck to you both.

Baroness D'Souza, speaker of the House of Lords; Aziz Royesh, headmaster and finalist from the Marefat School in Kabul.

Thank you so much.

Education, of course, the great equalizer, becoming a reality thanks to people like Aziz and Baroness D'Souza.

Now, after a break, imagine a world in desperate need of more teachers, seven million more to be precise, as he said. And imagine a

classroom where neither time nor aid are barriers of knowledge. That's when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, we've seen and heard now how good teaching can change lives for better and forever. But imagine a word

without teachers. For 61 million children, that is the sad reality. And the United Nations says half of those youngsters will never even see the

inside of a school. But it's also never too late to learn, never too late to make that difficult journey to knowledge, as Kimani Maruge proved when

he became famous the world over for starting school at the age of 84, sitting alongside his much-younger classmates learning math, English and

Swahili.

Now, my sister, the photojournalist, Leila Amanpour, took this photo of him in Kenya back in 2004. Maruge died five years after the picture was

taken. But old man Maruge's quest for knowledge took him to speak at the U.N. He became a prefect at his school. And it took him to leave an

inspirational legacy that is still celebrated the world over.

Not to be outdone, 90-year-old Priscilla Sitini (ph), also in Kenya, is the world's new oldest pupil. To her little classmates, she's

affectionately known as "Gogo." That's grandmother in the local dialect. For some of them, it is not just a nickname because seven of the children

in her class are also her own great grandchildren. Says Priscilla, she wants to inspire them all to learn, after all, education has no age limit.

And she has said that she wants every child, especially girls, to know that education will be their wealth.

And that is it for our program tonight. Remember, you can always see the whole show online at Amanpour.com. And follow me on Facebook and

Twitter.

Thanks for watching and good-bye from London.

END